OT. No AR15s

[Dean Hoffman]

<https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/03/29/surveillance-footage-shows-nashville-shooter-used-a-carbine-which-fires-pistol-rounds-not-an-ar-15/>

OR. <https://tinyurl.com/mr2st5e6>

Several people are dead regardless but can the news types get things right?
I guess Biden & Co. asked for flags to fly at half staff because of the killings. How about the people who the tornadoes killed? How many died in Chicago because of gang warfare this weekend?

[Scott Lurndal]

You can look it up. There were 5 murders in Chicago in the last 7 days, which
is less than half the total from the same week last year. And, of course, that
number cannot be compared directly to any other city unless you adjust for the
population size as well (2.6 million for Chicago, where that is one murder for
each 500,000 people).

https://home.chicagopolice.org/statistics-data/crime-statistics/

Louisianna (A red state to be sure) has the highest murder rate
in the country.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean

Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:

><https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/03/29/surveillance-footage-shows-nashville-shooter-used-a-carbine-which-fires-pistol-rounds-not-an-ar-15/>
>
>OR. <https://tinyurl.com/mr2st5e6>
>
> Several people are dead regardless but can the news types get things right?

How do you know it's breitbart that got it right? She had 3 guns with
her, two long guns.

And even if she didn't use an AR15, lots of terrorist murderers have
used them. One report is that the reason police didn't go into the
school at Uvalde, while children continued to get murdedred was that the
gunman had an AR15 and the police were afraid of it.

> I guess Biden & Co. asked for flags to fly at half staff because of the killings. How about the people who the tornadoes killed?

Stupid comparisons like this make me distrust everything you say. if
you don't know why it's a stupid comparison, ask me.

> How many died in Chicago because of gang warfare this weekend?

They have done lots of things to stop gang warfare and to commemorate
innocents who are killed in it. Of course the same people who make it
easy for the woman at the top to get guns also make it easy for gang
members to get guns. They are 2 for 2 groups in getting people killed.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Not sure what you are saying. Tornadoes cause gun killings? If we
eliminate tornadoes there would be no shootings?

I have no idea how you are connecting a natural disaster to humans
killing humans. One can be stopped, the other cannot be.

[rbowman]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:33:17 -0400, micky wrote:

> How do you know it's breitbart that got it right? She had 3 guns with
> her, two long guns.

The magazine on the carbine in the surveillance video is the giveaway.

[rbowman]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 18:58:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I have no idea how you are connecting a natural disaster to humans
> killing humans. One can be stopped, the other cannot be.

Since Cain allegedly killed Abel stopping humans from killing each other
seems to have had limited success.

[T]

This is not about public safety or they would be
after bats, knives, drunk drivers. matches etc..

This is about their own safety. They do not want
"insurrection weapons" out there that could take
out their beloved "Dictatorship of the Proletariat".
They do not want the tree of freedom watered with
their own blood.

[T]

So you only care about the "type" of gun, not
public safety. "Insurrection Weapons" have
to go from anyone that might be of a mind
to overthrow your beloved "Dictatorship of
the Proletariat".

And only from honest citizens. Never mind the
countless lives saved by AR style weapons or
any other firearm for that matter.

Oh and only the government and criminals should
have guns, especially when the government itself
starts to become criminals as well. End justifies
the means?

[Dean Hoffman]

Neither will be stopped completely. Humans will kill for power and/or money. Money and power are the same thing in a way. We kill for love too. It has gone on for centuries.
The people murdered at the school are victims as are their survivors.
The people killed by the tornadoes in the Deep South are victims as are their survivors.
The survivors will grieve then try to get on with their lives. The tornado survivors will actually
have life tougher. They've probably lost homes, jobs, and whole communities that would help them get on with life.
One nice thing I saw on tv was all of the people showing up to help in Mississippi. TV showed a lady telling this kid he better show up at the temporary food kitchen she and others had set up. They weren't matching colors by the way.
Flags at half staff for the six or so seems like a political stunt. It should be done only for a truly national disaster. It should be done after the death of a national leader. It cheapens the significance if we do it for less.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/29/2023 10:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

> Flags at half staff for the six or so seems like a political stunt. It should be done only for a truly national disaster. It should be done after the death of a national leader. It cheapens the significance if we do it for less.
>

Perhaps we have to do things like that to bring attention and come up
with ways to prevent it from happening again.

[Bob F]

But GOPers don't give a damn about our kids dying. It is more important
to them to worship their god, the NRA.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You'll like this from USA Today commentary

https://tinyurl.com/mpuzcrbt


COLUMNISTS
Please stop asking me to address gun violence, I'm busy banning books
How could you suggest we consider something as useless as banning
assault rifles when children across the country could, at any moment, be
exposed to a book called 'And Tango Makes Three'?
Rex Huppke
USA TODAY

Hello, I’m a Republican lawmaker, and while I’m heartbroken over
Monday’s horrific elementary school shooting in Nashville, I’d
appreciate it if people would stop asking me to do something to prevent
such tragedies from happening again.

I’m a busy person, and there are many important issues I and my
colleagues are addressing in our quest to make the world a safe place
for children. For example, books. They are often bad. Lawmakers like
myself at the local, state and federal level are doing everything we can
to make sure dangerous books don’t wind up in the hands of children.

Ban guns? We're busy banning books, thank you very much

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <gS6VL.1740013$iS99....@fx16.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

>
> Perhaps we have to do things like that to bring attention and come up
> with ways to prevent it from happening again.
>
>

Along thr line of what Biden has said about home protection all we need
to do is let the principal keep a double barrel shotgun in his office.
When something hapens he takes out the shotgun and shoots it out the
window and the prolem is solved.

Easy for someone to say that is going to be protected for life by the SS
agents with full automatic guns.

[T]

You an start by arming the staff and teachers.

Next allow victim's families to sue "gun free zones"

Then discontinue subsidizing fatherless homes.

And dammit, enforce the law. Put bad guys in
jail after you catch them. Soros' DA can go to hell.

[Peeler]

On 30 Mar 2023 00:44:22 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

>> I have no idea how you are connecting a natural disaster to humans
>> killing humans. One can be stopped, the other cannot be.
>
> Since Cain allegedly killed Abel stopping humans from killing each other
> seems to have had limited success.

Do you have to smear EVERY topic with your idiotic "cool" blather, abnormal
bigmouth?

--
Another one of the resident senile bigmouth's idiotic "cool" lines:
"If you're an ax murderer don't leave souvenir photos on your phone."
"MID: <k7ssc7...@mid.individual.net>"

[T]

Stop blaming us for what you do.

[T]

This has nothing to do with public safety. It is
disarming honest citizens to guard again Lefties
lives being used to water the tree of freedom.

[Oscar]

Calm down, Bob. Think of it as a delayed abortion.

[Pepe Ron Cini]

Something ain't right here.

What is causing the sudden uptick in transgenders?
Environmental toxins?
GMO crops grown in nutrient-depleated soil?
Pharmaceutical side-effects?

[Cindy Hamilton]

The fact that they don't need to be as afraid as they used to be
to say what they've always been?

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Slevin]

What you state, that's a fact?

[trader_4]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 8:48:30 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 3/29/23 13:49, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> > <https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/03/29/surveillance-footage-shows-nashville-shooter-used-a-carbine-which-fires-pistol-rounds-not-an-ar-15/>
> >
> > OR. <https://tinyurl.com/mr2st5e6>
> >
> > Several people are dead regardless but can the news types get things right?
> > I guess Biden & Co. asked for flags to fly at half staff because of the killings. How about the people who the tornadoes killed? How many died in Chicago because of gang warfare this weekend?
> This is not about public safety or they would be
> after bats, knives, drunk drivers. matches etc..

Seems very likely that if bats, knives and matches were being used
in an increasing number of horrific mass murders, there would be a
focus on those and what can be done. Drunk drivers were causing a
lot of unnecessary deaths and about 30 years ago that came under
scrutiny, drunk driving laws were changed, DWI limit lowered, enforcement,
including DWI checkpoints on roads put into place. It had a significant
effect on lowering the DWI fatality rates.

>
> This is about their own safety. They do not want
> "insurrection weapons" out there that could take
> out their beloved "Dictatorship of the Proletariat".
> They do not want the tree of freedom watered with
> their own blood.

Right, and Covid restrictions in 2020 were not about saving lives
reducing the spread so hospitals were not overloaded, but just
about some politicians on doing it for the joy of controlling people.
Give us a break.

[trader_4]

Imagine what the Jan 6 insurrection would have been like had DC allowed weapons
in public. That's the kind of pond scum that has overthrowing the govt in mind.

>
> And only from honest citizens.

Like the Jan 6 insurrectionists?

Never mind the
> countless lives saved by AR style weapons or
> any other firearm for that matter.

I would bet that the percentage of lives saved using an AR-15
is very small. It's actually a terrible choice for a self-defense weapon.
If you know as much as you claim to know about guns, you'd know
that.

>
> Oh and only the government and criminals should
> have guns, especially when the government itself
> starts to become criminals as well. End justifies
> the means?

Ends justifying the means, that's what we saw from your bunch on Jan 6.
And instead of being horrified by what happened and condemning those that
did it, Trump just honored the Jan 6 scum at his first campaign rally. And
he's threatening more "death and destruction" if he's indicted.

[trader_4]

Or we could start by requiring that each purchase of a firearm requires
a permit issued by the local police chief after a field background check.
Many of these mass shootings could have been prevented if that was in
place. In some cases, the police had plenty of information on the person
in their own files that would have resulted in the permit being denied.
Instead, in most states, someone where their family, friends, co-workers
knows they are not right, where they are undergoing mental health therapy,
where they have records of 20 calls to the house for violence, just walk in
to a gun store and buy all the guns they want. And the NRA and right wing
nuts say that's just how it has to be.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Sure is. Gay kids were often beat up, ridiculed and bullied but those
days are mostly past. Some still think it is criminal and want to pray
the gay away.

[Bob F]

They really have become appalling. Ban the GOP!.

[Bob F]

And many others still want to kill it away. Despite that fact that it
has always been there.

[Bob F]

You mean trumps SS agents?

[Cindy Hamilton]

I wonder if Slevin knows what a question mark is for.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <0d95bbe3-c7b0-45a8...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Seems very likely that if bats, knives and matches were being used
> in an increasing number of horrific mass murders, there would be a
> focus on those and what can be done. Drunk drivers were causing a
> lot of unnecessary deaths and about 30 years ago that came under
> scrutiny, drunk driving laws were changed, DWI limit lowered, enforcement,
> including DWI checkpoints on roads put into place. It had a significant
> effect on lowering the DWI fatality rates.
>
>
>
>

The DD deaths have gone down from about 20,000 to 10,000 per year that
is still way too many. I have not looked at the drug death while
driving but bet they have gone way up.

Too bad that the 2 nd DD convection will not require a 20 year stay in
jail or some other very, very stiff sentence, even hanging would be my
choice as in many other crimes would be for me.

[Frank]

Yes, you have always been with us.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <1acfebc2-006c-4707...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> I would bet that the percentage of lives saved using an AR-15
> is very small. It's actually a terrible choice for a self-defense weapon.
> If you know as much as you claim to know about guns, you'd know
> that.
>
>
>

It all depends on the situation. Everything has its plus and minus.

I have two of them and they are the 16 inch barrel length. Slightly
long for the house. However when loaded with varmit type bullets (
which are really deadly to people) they are very safe in the house
compaired to the 9 mm handgun .

the 9 mm will often pass through many walls in the house. The ar15 with
varmet bullets tend to come apart after one wall and not penetrate the
2nd wall. Not hearsay but actual tests I have done. Even the parts that
come apart do not seem to be a very great danger unless hit in the face
(eyes).

[Frank]

Back in the day, Biden wanted to ban all semi automatic weapons which
would have included my Remington 1100 shotgun. It was responsible for
the death of thousands of clay pigeons.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <8b10f6e5-ed32-40e8...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Or we could start by requiring that each purchase of a firearm requires
> a permit issued by the local police chief after a field background check.
> Many of these mass shootings could have been prevented if that was in
> place. In some cases, the police had plenty of information on the person
> in their own files that would have resulted in the permit being denied.
> Instead, in most states, someone where their family, friends, co-workers
> knows they are not right, where they are undergoing mental health therapy,
> where they have records of 20 calls to the house for violence, just walk in
> to a gun store and buy all the guns they want. And the NRA and right wing
> nuts say that's just how it has to be.
>
>

I have no problem with the local checks. I like it here in NC where you
can get a concealed carry permit good for 5 years that lets you buy any
legal gun just by showing that a store and they take that info and your
drivers license and fill out a form at the store. Then you walk out with
the gun.

The first time for the CC permit you take a days traning which is mostly
about the law. Then you shoot about 25 rounds at short distances which
is just so you know which end of the gun to point at a target. Then a
background check is ran by the local sheriff department. After the 5
years is up you go to the sheriff department and reapply. Usually a
week or two goes by and they call you to pick up the permit or tell you
whyyou aew refused.

[Ken]

Is that why the GOPers are normally seen as being against abortion??
Because they don't care about kids dying??

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 30 Mar 2023 07:28:07 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 8:56:24?PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 3/29/23 14:33, micky wrote:
>> > In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean
>> > Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> <https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/03/29/surveillance-footage-shows-nashville-shooter-used-a-carbine-which-fires-pistol-rounds-not-an-ar-15/>
>> >>
>> >> OR. <https://tinyurl.com/mr2st5e6>
>> >>
>> >> Several people are dead regardless but can the news types get things right?
>> >
>> > How do you know it's breitbart that got it right? She had 3 guns with
>> > her, two long guns.
>> >
>> > And even if she didn't use an AR15, lots of terrorist murderers have
>> > used them. One report is that the reason police didn't go into the
>> > school at Uvalde, while children continued to get murdedred was that the
>> > gunman had an AR15 and the police were afraid of it.
>> >
>> >> I guess Biden & Co. asked for flags to fly at half staff because of the killings. How about the people who the tornadoes killed?
>> >
>> > Stupid comparisons like this make me distrust everything you say. if
>> > you don't know why it's a stupid comparison, ask me.
>> >
>> >> How many died in Chicago because of gang warfare this weekend?
>> >
>> > They have done lots of things to stop gang warfare and to commemorate
>> > innocents who are killed in it. Of course the same people who make it
>> > easy for the woman at the top to get guns also make it easy for gang
>> > members to get guns. They are 2 for 2 groups in getting people killed.
>> >
>> >
>> So you only care about the "type" of gun, not

What a moron!

>> public safety. "Insurrection Weapons" have
>> to go from anyone that might be of a mind
>> to overthrow your beloved "Dictatorship of
>> the Proletariat".

What a moron!

>
>Imagine what the Jan 6 insurrection would have been like had DC allowed weapons
>in public. That's the kind of pond scum that has overthrowing the govt in mind.
>
>
>>
>> And only from honest citizens.

What a moron.

>
>Like the Jan 6 insurrectionists?
>
>
> Never mind the
>> countless lives saved by AR style weapons or
>> any other firearm for that matter.

What a moron.

>
>I would bet that the percentage of lives saved using an AR-15
>is very small. It's actually a terrible choice for a self-defense weapon.
>If you know as much as you claim to know about guns, you'd know
>that.
>
>>
>> Oh and only the government and criminals should
>> have guns, especially when the government itself
>> starts to become criminals as well. End justifies

What a moron.

Hard to believe one person can be so consistent, but there you have it.

[Scott Lurndal]

Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net> writes:
>In article <0d95bbe3-c7b0-45a8...@googlegroups.com>,
>tra...@optonline.net says...
>>
>> Seems very likely that if bats, knives and matches were being used
>> in an increasing number of horrific mass murders, there would be a
>> focus on those and what can be done. Drunk drivers were causing a
>> lot of unnecessary deaths and about 30 years ago that came under
>> scrutiny, drunk driving laws were changed, DWI limit lowered, enforcement,
>> including DWI checkpoints on roads put into place. It had a significant
>> effect on lowering the DWI fatality rates.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> I have not looked at the drug death while
>driving but bet they have gone way up.

Google is right there at your fingertips.

[Frank]

I knew a guy with 16 DWI's and that was a few years ago. Surprised he
never appeared in the headlines. He's about 60 now and probably still
alive due to the numerous times he went to jail to dry out.

[Frank]

You do know that every single time you buy a gun you need a background
check. Your state of NJ is tougher but doubt many would like NJ rules
inflicted on the rest of US.

[Frank]

I call you commie f'ing Bob in part because you want one party rule.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <u04a5c$u5qj$1...@dont-email.me>, bobn...@gmail.com says...

>
> They really have become appalling. Ban the GOP!.
>
>

I did not catch all of it, but did see on the news a few hours ago that
there is a movement to ban 3 rd parties from running for president.

I thought anyone meating the requirements for president could run or
start their own party. It might just take a certain amount of
signatures to get you on the ballot.

[Scott Lurndal]

Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net> writes:
>In article <u04a5c$u5qj$1...@dont-email.me>, bobn...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> They really have become appalling. Ban the GOP!.
>>
>>
>
>I did not catch all of it, but did see on the news a few hours ago that
>there is a movement to ban 3 rd parties from running for president.

Horseshit. You really need to stop reading the babylon bee.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/29/2023 8:56 PM, T wrote:

> So you only care about the "type" of gun, not

> public safety.  "Insurrection Weapons" have
> to go from anyone that might be of a mind
> to overthrow your beloved "Dictatorship of
> the Proletariat".
>

> And only from honest citizens.  Never mind the

> countless lives saved by AR style weapons or
> any other firearm for that matter.

Military and police aside, has an AR15 saved the life of a citizen? Do
you have a cite for that? I just don't recall every seeing any reports
that a citizen armed with an assault type rifle saved lives.
>

[Cindy Hamilton]

The GOP's care for children ends at the moment of birth. They care more
for a collection of cells the size of a TicTac than a kindergartener.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Frank]

I have never seen the need for an AR as there is nothing around here
that you can hunt with them and they are not a good target shooting gun
plus because of their notoriety prices are high. They recently banned
them in DE and I know people that bought them just because they knew
they might be banned. Much more versatile to own a shotgun. There also
so many varieties of bullets around you could probably get some that
fragment without penetrating walls.

[T]

You swim in a sea of lies and deceit. How is you
goose stepping coming along? You been banned from
CPUSA's web site for being too radical yet?

[T]

On 3/30/23 08:48, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Too bad that the 2 nd DD convection will not require a 20 year stay in
> jail or some other very, very stiff sentence, even hanging would be my
> choice as in many other crimes would be for me.

1st offense, confiscate his car.

[T]

Here you go again blaming us for what you do.

Trump was about increasing freedom.

[T]

My big issue with background check is that
criminals buy instantly from the black market
and honest citizens in trouble been killed
waiting for the checks and waiting periods
to go through.

I would compromise with an "instant check"

[T]

And criminals just go through the black market.
Meanwhile an honest person that is in trouble and
need a gun right away ...

[T]

Oh brother Ed.

The numbers are something like 17 to 1. And I
am not going to waste my time repeating what I
and other have shown you so, so many times before.
It is a technique of the extreme left.

American Pravda refused to show legal use of guns
to save lives.

[Bob F]

Exactly!!

[T]

So if they are small enough. IT'S OKAY TO KILL THEM!!!!!

[T]

Oh brother. Which part is it that is standing up
against castrating boys and chopping breasts off
of girls?

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <u04nkq$10m51$1...@dont-email.me>, "frank "@frank.net says...

>
> I have never seen the need for an AR as there is nothing around here
> that you can hunt with them and they are not a good target shooting gun
> plus because of their notoriety prices are high. They recently banned
> them in DE and I know people that bought them just because they knew
> they might be banned. Much more versatile to own a shotgun. There also
> so many varieties of bullets around you could probably get some that
> fragment without penetrating walls.
>
>

AR-15s can be bought new for around $ 525 that are good enough for home
protection. Look at the Del-Tron brand. The S&W Sport is about $ 700.

Check out the ones that are shooting at targets up to 1000 yards. Many
of the military target shooters went from the 308 caliber rifles to the
AR-15. The AR-15 has very little kick to it. Nice for women and young
people. Shorter than the shotgun and holds 30 rounds. Buckshot
penetrates many walls in the house. Varmet rounds of the 223 are
effective on people but do not penetrate very many walls.

I talk from actually using an AR15 for a good number of years and
shooting it a good bit.

Have you ever shor an AR and put it to the test of over 100 rounds ?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Interesting, Pravda refuses to show it and you can't prove it. Oh, I
understand.

[trader_4]

On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 12:06:20 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <8b10f6e5-ed32-40e8...@googlegroups.com>,
> tra...@optonline.net says...
> >
> > Or we could start by requiring that each purchase of a firearm requires
> > a permit issued by the local police chief after a field background check.
> > Many of these mass shootings could have been prevented if that was in
> > place. In some cases, the police had plenty of information on the person
> > in their own files that would have resulted in the permit being denied.
> > Instead, in most states, someone where their family, friends, co-workers
> > knows they are not right, where they are undergoing mental health therapy,
> > where they have records of 20 calls to the house for violence, just walk in
> > to a gun store and buy all the guns they want. And the NRA and right wing
> > nuts say that's just how it has to be.
> >
> >
> I have no problem with the local checks.

Obviously the Republicans in your state do. They just repealed the law requiring
a permit to buy a pistol.

I like it here in NC where you
> can get a concealed carry permit good for 5 years that lets you buy any
> legal gun just by showing that a store and they take that info and your
> drivers license and fill out a form at the store. Then you walk out with
> the gun.
>
> The first time for the CC permit you take a days traning which is mostly
> about the law. Then you shoot about 25 rounds at short distances which
> is just so you know which end of the gun to point at a target. Then a
> background check is ran by the local sheriff department. After the 5
> years is up you go to the sheriff department and reapply. Usually a
> week or two goes by and they call you to pick up the permit or tell you
> whyyou aew refused.

And Florida has similar, DeSantis is in the process of repealing that too,
so that anyone who owns a guy can carry. In the environment of escalating
mass shootings, both of those examples are exactly the opposite of what
we need and another example of why I left the GOP.

[trader_4]

Yes, it's hard to believe you keep making replies that appear to be directed
at me, but you're actually responding to what someone else wrote. Must be
beyond your capability to find the correct post.

[trader_4]

Cite for us the cases in the last 5 years where some honest citizen
was killed while waiting for a background check to buy a gun. I can
cite for you all the dead from the almost monthly mass shootings,
many of them by people where they should have and could have been
blocked if we had a real field background check by the local police.

>
> I would compromise with an "instant check"

How big of you.
The existing federal check typically takes minutes, though it can take
up to 3 days. Here we are watching mass shootings where we need a
real background check that could have blocked many of these shooters
from buying the guns and you're actually complaining about this?

[trader_4]

I'm sure those 17 to 1 numbers are as accurate as Mr. T's stolen election
vote numbers.

[T]

It has been proven to you so may times my head
is spinning. I am not playing this game
with you.

[rbowman]

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 13:59:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Military and police aside, has an AR15 saved the life of a citizen? Do
> you have a cite for that? I just don't recall every seeing any reports
> that a citizen armed with an assault type rifle saved lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting

Do you think Kelley would have stopped killing had not Willeford engaged
him? Would Kelley had been able to purchase firearms if the Air Force
hadn't screwed the pooch?

[T]

This is clearly about their safety, not public
safety.

Also as pointed out by other on this group,
the AR platform is easy to master, meaning
more folks that can't rack a Yankee's Fist
(M1911) are more able to defend themselves

[Ed Pawlowski]

One. That was the same year, 2017, that 60 were killed in Las Vegas.
How many since?

[rbowman]

You've seen one report. That's all you get for free.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'm sure T will have a list of them

Meantime, looks like Trump finally won the popular vote

https://imgur.com/gallery/RyxmCl4

[Peeler]

On 31 Mar 2023 01:20:40 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting
>
> Do you think Kelley would have stopped killing had not Willeford engaged
> him? Would Kelley had been able to purchase firearms if the Air Force
> hadn't screwed the pooch?

So HOW many lives were ever saved like that compared to the huge number of
innocent persons getting murdered in all the many killing sprees in the US?

[Peeler]

On 31 Mar 2023 04:31:53 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

>> One. That was the same year, 2017, that 60 were killed in Las Vegas.
>> How many since?
>
> You've seen one report. That's all you get for free.

Not to forget your gratuitous idiocy!

--
More of the resident senile bigmouth's idiotic "cool" blather:
"For reasons I can't recall I painted a spare bedroom in purple. It may
have had something to do with copious quantities of cheap Scotch."
MID: <k89lch...@mid.individual.net>

[Frank]

That is a reasonable price and I might have bought one in past years but
they are now banned in Delaware along with magazines with more than 15
round capacity. I have shot one and know they are pleasant to shoot
with low recoil. Only shot a few rounds from it as it was not scoped
and my right eye sight is poor and I did not want to waste someone
else's ammo. No problem with pistols as I can shoot right handed and
sight with left eye.

[Frank]

Then there was the drug addicted son of the president that lied about it
and bought a gun. That has been known for years yet it has been hands
off him.

[trader_4]

It's not just Hunter Biden. Years ago, the last number I saw there were tens of
thousands failing the background check each year. Only two ways really to fail,
either a convicted felon or declared a nut by a court. So there most certainly
are a lot of people who committed a crime there, lying on the form, but
prosecutions there were only maybe 50 of them.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <9e14159c-6296-48aa...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> > My big issue with background check is that
> > criminals buy instantly from the black market
> > and honest citizens in trouble been killed
> > waiting for the checks and waiting periods
> > to go through.
>
> Cite for us the cases in the last 5 years where some honest citizen
> was killed while waiting for a background check to buy a gun. I can
> cite for you all the dead from the almost monthly mass shootings,
> many of them by people where they should have and could have been
> blocked if we had a real field background check by the local police.
>
>
>

There are often provisions that the sheriff can issue right away a
permit if you can prove your life is in danger.So no big problem if one
really needs a gun right away.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <u06fmu$1cu3r$1...@dont-email.me>, "frank "@frank.net says...

> >
> That is a reasonable price and I might have bought one in past years but
> they are now banned in Delaware along with magazines with more than 15
> round capacity. I have shot one and know they are pleasant to shoot
> with low recoil. Only shot a few rounds from it as it was not scoped
> and my right eye sight is poor and I did not want to waste someone
> else's ammo. No problem with pistols as I can shoot right handed and
> sight with left eye.
>
>

Learn to shoot left handed. My left eye is the master and I can not
close my left eye unless both eyes go closed.

I taught myself to shoot the long guns left handed when I got my first
BB gun some time before I was 16. Just started using the red dot sights
and seem to be able to use them right handed.

Handguns are shot right handed except for practice with the left hand
just incase I ever need to.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <bb3b8ba8-2656-42a2...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> It's not just Hunter Biden. Years ago, the last number I saw there were tens of
> thousands failing the background check each year. Only two ways really to fail,
> either a convicted felon or declared a nut by a court. So there most certainly
> are a lot of people who committed a crime there, lying on the form, but
> prosecutions there were only maybe 50 of them.
>
>

There is a place on the form that asks something about being on drugs
that will prevent a legal buy. That is the question lied on the federal
form. Hunter should have been brought to trial on that.

[rbowman]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 07:21:01 -0400, Frank wrote:

> That is a reasonable price and I might have bought one in past years but
> they are now banned in Delaware along with magazines with more than 15
> round capacity. I have shot one and know they are pleasant to shoot
> with low recoil. Only shot a few rounds from it as it was not scoped
> and my right eye sight is poor and I did not want to waste someone
> else's ammo. No problem with pistols as I can shoot right handed and
> sight with left eye.

I like the .223 cartridge but I shoot a bolt action. AR-15s don't fluff my
fur.

[Peeler]

On 31 Mar 2023 17:43:47 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I like the .223 cartridge but I shoot a bolt action. AR-15s don't fluff my
> fur.

I bet you'd make a talented fluffer, you know, what with your bit mouth!
<BG>

[Frank]

My long guns are all scoped and I can see reasonably well with my right
eye. Not much problem with scoped or unscoped handguns with left eye.
My eyes are aging out and getting a shot in the right yesterday for AMD
my vision was measured at 20/25 for the left eye and 20/70 for the
right. If I were still deer hunting I would have to learn to shoot left
handed as even several years ago I had trouble sighting well with scope
in the evening when light dimmed and hunting allowed a half hour after
sunset.

[Frank]

I enjoy reloading and prefer not shooting semiautomatics and scrounging
around picking up the brass.

When I deer hunted in PA with a rifle, semiautomatics were not allowed.
I bought a used Remington .243 but traded it in for a .308 Browning BLR
after taking three shots at a buck even knocking it down but loosing it.
Not sure PA would have allowed the smaller round like .223.

[Frank]

Here is the fact check on Hunter's military discharge:

"Posts on Facebook following the first 2020 presidential debate say
Hunter Biden, the second and only surviving son of Democratic
presidential nominee Joe Biden, received a dishonorable discharge from
the U.S. Navy. He did not receive a dishonorable discharge. Hunter
Biden, who has dealt with substance abuse issues, was handed a less
severe administrative discharge after failing a drug test for cocaine."

If this had been flagged when he applied I would guess he would have
been denied. Feds fell down on the job.

Owner of a gun shop here was caught carrying cocaine. The feds not only
kept him in jail but took his FFL and closed down his shop confiscating
all his guns. He was in jail maybe two years before conviction and
released for time served.

[rbowman]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:30:51 -0400, Frank wrote:


> When I deer hunted in PA with a rifle, semiautomatics were not allowed.
> I bought a used Remington .243 but traded it in for a .308 Browning BLR
> after taking three shots at a buck even knocking it down but loosing it.
> Not sure PA would have allowed the smaller round like .223.

Joe says the round leaves an exit wound the size of a Volkswagen...

[Peeler]

On 1 Apr 2023 02:21:31 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

>> When I deer hunted in PA with a rifle, semiautomatics were not allowed.
>> I bought a used Remington .243 but traded it in for a .308 Browning BLR
>> after taking three shots at a buck even knocking it down but loosing it.
>> Not sure PA would have allowed the smaller round like .223.
>
> Joe says the round leaves an exit wound the size of a Volkswagen...

But it STILL wouldn't shut up your big mouth!

--
Yet another thrilling account from the resident senile superhero's senile
life:
"I went to a Driveby Truckers concert at a local venue and they made me
leave my knife in the car. Never went back. Come to think of it the Truckers
had a Black Lives Matter banner. Never bought any of their music again
either."
MID: <k84ip9...@mid.individual.net>

[trader_4]

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 7:46:33 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On 3/31/2023 12:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> > In article <bb3b8ba8-2656-42a2...@googlegroups.com>,
> > tra...@optonline.net says...
> >>
> >> It's not just Hunter Biden. Years ago, the last number I saw there were tens of
> >> thousands failing the background check each year. Only two ways really to fail,
> >> either a convicted felon or declared a nut by a court. So there most certainly
> >> are a lot of people who committed a crime there, lying on the form, but
> >> prosecutions there were only maybe 50 of them.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > There is a place on the form that asks something about being on drugs
> > that will prevent a legal buy. That is the question lied on the federal
> > form. Hunter should have been brought to trial on that.
> Here is the fact check on Hunter's military discharge:
>
> "Posts on Facebook following the first 2020 presidential debate say
> Hunter Biden, the second and only surviving son of Democratic
> presidential nominee Joe Biden, received a dishonorable discharge from
> the U.S. Navy. He did not receive a dishonorable discharge. Hunter
> Biden, who has dealt with substance abuse issues, was handed a less
> severe administrative discharge after failing a drug test for cocaine."
>
> If this had been flagged when he applied I would guess he would have
> been denied. Feds fell down on the job.

Here are some of the stats that I was talking about which show Hunter isn't
unique:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473

Of 556,496 denied transactions between FY 2008 and FY 2015, federal prosecutors prosecuted an average of under 32 cases per year, including 24 in FY 2013, 15 in FY 2014 and 20 in FY 2015.[3][4]

If the libs want to do something about guns, Biden could issue a directive to the DOJ
to pursue those criminals. And when you arrest them for lying on the ATF form, good
chance you'd find other crimes, eg drug possession.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <382d8618-4e45-49ad...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Here are some of the stats that I was talking about which show Hunter isn't
> unique:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473
>
> Of 556,496 denied transactions between FY 2008 and FY 2015, federal prosecutors prosecuted an average of under 32 cases per year, including 24 in FY 2013, 15 in FY 2014 and 20 in FY 2015.[3][4]
>
> If the libs want to do something about guns, Biden could issue a directive to the DOJ
> to pursue those criminals. And when you arrest them for lying on the ATF form, good
> chance you'd find other crimes, eg drug possession.
>
>
>
>

The Libs seem to want to ban things, but not enforce the laws. There
are probably of thousands that could be prosicuted for lying on Federal
forms of all kinds, especially the gun form.

It is one thing to denie transiactions which is not lying or against the
law. It is against the law to lie on the forms. If I had been taking
drugs and put that I had on the form I would be denied but not
proscuited. However if I put down that i had not been doing grugs when
I had that should be prosicuted.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 30 Mar 2023 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 12:36:17?PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 30 Mar 2023 07:28:07 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 8:56:24?PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> >> On 3/29/23 14:33, micky wrote:
>> >> > In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean
>> >> > Hoffman <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> <https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/03/29/surveillance-footage-shows-nashville-shooter-used-a-carbine-which-fires-pistol-rounds-not-an-ar-15/>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> OR. <https://tinyurl.com/mr2st5e6>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Several people are dead regardless but can the news types get things right?
>> >> >
>> >> > How do you know it's breitbart that got it right? She had 3 guns with
>> >> > her, two long guns.
>> >> >
>> >> > And even if she didn't use an AR15, lots of terrorist murderers have
>> >> > used them. One report is that the reason police didn't go into the
>> >> > school at Uvalde, while children continued to get murdedred was that the
>> >> > gunman had an AR15 and the police were afraid of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >> I guess Biden & Co. asked for flags to fly at half staff because of the killings. How about the people who the tornadoes killed?
>> >> >
>> >> > Stupid comparisons like this make me distrust everything you say. if
>> >> > you don't know why it's a stupid comparison, ask me.
>> >> >
>> >> >> How many died in Chicago because of gang warfare this weekend?
>> >> >
>> >> > They have done lots of things to stop gang warfare and to commemorate
>> >> > innocents who are killed in it. Of course the same people who make it
>> >> > easy for the woman at the top to get guns also make it easy for gang
>> >> > members to get guns. They are 2 for 2 groups in getting people killed.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> So you only care about the "type" of gun, not
>> What a moron!

>> >> public safety. "Insurrection Weapons" have
>> >> to go from anyone that might be of a mind
>> >> to overthrow your beloved "Dictatorship of
>> >> the Proletariat".

>> What a moron!
>> >
>> >Imagine what the Jan 6 insurrection would have been like had DC allowed weapons
>> >in public. That's the kind of pond scum that has overthrowing the govt in mind.

>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> And only from honest citizens.

>> What a moron.
>> >
>> >Like the Jan 6 insurrectionists?

>> >
>> >
>> > Never mind the
>> >> countless lives saved by AR style weapons or
>> >> any other firearm for that matter.

>> What a moron.
>> >
>> >I would bet that the percentage of lives saved using an AR-15
>> >is very small. It's actually a terrible choice for a self-defense weapon.
>> >If you know as much as you claim to know about guns, you'd know
>> >that.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Oh and only the government and criminals should
>> >> have guns, especially when the government itself
>> >> starts to become criminals as well. End justifies
>> What a moron.
>>
>> Hard to believe one person can be so consistent, but there you have it.
>
>Yes, it's hard to believe you keep making replies that appear to be directed
>at me, but you're actually responding to what someone else wrote. Must be
>beyond your capability to find the correct post.

It's hard to believe you don't understand how indentation works. The
creators of Usenet went to a lot of trouble to work it out, but that
seems to have eluded you. It must be beyond your capability to
understand Usenet.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-04-01, Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> The Libs seem to want to ban things, but not enforce the laws.

Conservatives also want to ban things, but not enforce the laws.

> There
> are probably of thousands that could be prosicuted for lying on Federal
> forms of all kinds, especially the gun form.

There are probably thousands who could be prosecuted for not doing
background checks when they should, and other violations of our
existing gun-control laws. And other laws, too, of course. How
many child-labor laws are broken by businesses every year?

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Scott Lurndal]

Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net> writes:
>In article <382d8618-4e45-49ad...@googlegroups.com>,
>tra...@optonline.net says...
>>
>> Here are some of the stats that I was talking about which show Hunter isn't
>> unique:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473
>>
>> Of 556,496 denied transactions between FY 2008 and FY 2015, federal prosecutors prosecuted an average of under 32 cases per year, including 24 in FY 2013, 15 in FY 2014 and 20 in FY 2015.[3][4]
>>
>> If the libs want to do something about guns, Biden could issue a directive to the DOJ
>> to pursue those criminals. And when you arrest them for lying on the ATF form, good
>> chance you'd find other crimes, eg drug possession.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The Libs seem to want to ban things, but not enforce the laws.

Ha, that's ironic, given the republican efforts to ban
all things gender related.

There is clearly not unanimity on the interpretation of the
second amendment, which refers to "arms" and "militia" - clearly
not all "arms" are legal (hand grenades, nuclear bombs,
chemical/biological weapons, etc), so the issue is where the
line is drawn. I've no problem with hunting weapons (e.g
a bolt-action rifle, or revolver). Military weapons such
as soi disant assault weapons on the other hand are clearly
on the other side of that line in my (and most others)
opinions.

> There
>are probably of thousands that could be prosicuted for lying on Federal
>forms of all kinds, especially the gun form.

So, as a republican why aren't you supporting such prosecutions? (that's how it's spelled).

>
>It is one thing to denie transiactions which is not lying or against the
>law. It is against the law to lie on the forms. If I had been taking
>drugs and put that I had on the form I would be denied but not
>proscuited. However if I put down that i had not been doing grugs when
>I had that should be prosicuted.

First, you should learn to spell.