Why wait 24 hours after turning an ice cream maker on its side?

[Danny D]

My wife sometimes takes warnings too literally.

She bought a Cuisinart CIM-60PC ice-cream maker from Costco today:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179506/img/13179506.jpg

The instructions say (verbatim):
"If unit is turned on its side or upside down, you will need
to put it in upright position and wait 24 hours before using."
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179507/img/13179507.jpg

Huh? She asked me if it was ok to use, since it was sideways in
the car for transportation. I said "yes" with sheer confidence
(luckily she doesn't know about the USENET) as she proceeded
to make strawberry ice cream, with fresh-squeezed lemons and
cream, milk, vanilla extract, & sugar.

I can "guess" that there is a viscous liquid in the freezing
bowl, but it must be *really* thick to take 24 hours to settle.

Despite my show of confidence, between you and me, I have no
good idea *why* the instructions say what they say. Do you?

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

The refrigerant flows to places that it shouldn't be. The refrigerant
contains oil to lubricate the compressor. Until it's allowed to
settle back to the bottom of the unit, the compressor may run short of
lubricant; outcome not good. Wait the 24 hours.

[Danny D]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:23:27 -0400, krw wrote:

> The refrigerant contains oil to lubricate the compressor.

My fault for not explaining, that even I didn't realize there
is no compressor.

The label says "just add ingredients and turn on and you're
done" but they neglected to say you have to freeze the bowl
in the freezer overnight first.

It's weird. There is no refrigeration whatsoever. It's just
a cold bowl (from being in the freezer).

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 22:41:46 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

Sounds strange but it's likely still a fluid flow problem. Call the
manufacturer. There is usually a phone number somewhere in the
instructions.

[Jon Danniken]

There is some substance in the cavity which has a melting point at the
temperature you use for making ice cream. While the substance is in the
transition between a solid and a liquid, it will maintain a set
temperature, which provides you a time window within which you can make
ice cream.

Jon

[Danny D]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:07:10 -0400, krw wrote:

> There is usually a phone number somewhere in the
> instructions.

I had called Cuisinart before I posted (800-726-0190) and
after bouncing from technician to technician, I spoke
to a Mary Rogers in marketing, who said I wasn't the
first person to complain that the package intimates
that you can make ice cream right away, when, in effect,
it takes 12 to 24 hours to freeze the container
beforehand.

Nonetheless, she had no clue what the fluid was but
she said there was mention of saline in the technical
literature, and she wasn't sure why you can't tip
the thing on its side.

[nestork]

Prolly the ice cream maker was a refrigerator in a previous life.




--
nestork

[Danny D]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 23:44:12 +0000, Danny D wrote:

> I had called Cuisinart before I posted (800-726-0190) and
> after bouncing from technician to technician, I spoke
> to a Mary Rogers in marketing

I called back, and asked for a supervisor right off
the bat. Spoke with "Angela" who said that it must be
a typo because they can't figure out why it says that.

Hmmm... scary thought. They don't know why they have
the warnings they have in their own instruction booklets?

Further details were that this part number (CIM-60PC) is
a Sams Club/Costco part number, whereas her part number
is ICE-30BC, so her instruction booklet "may" be different
because her Instruction Booklet was IB-5611 whereas mine
was IB-10824A.

Funny thing, all they know about their fluid is that it's
non toxic (I guess that's a good thing, if they can be
believed at this point); and, that a second freezer bowl
(PN ICE-30BCFB), which is needed for a second batch of ice
cream, costs as much from them as the entire ice cream maker
cost at Costco.

Anyway, it's a bit scary how little they understand about
their own products - but - for now - I'm going to have to
assume that warning is a typo (but that's always a bad thing
when warnings can't be believed). Sort of like when train
track signals are flashing for no good reason.

[tra...@optonline.net]

The only reason I can think of for this warning is that someone
writing the instructions heard that refrigerators and freezers, at
least in some cases, need a period of a day or so to allow the
refrigerant/oil to return to it's normal location, if the unit has
been on it's side. This ice cream maker uses completely
different technology, has no compressor, etc. but it's possible
that some dummy that wrote the instructions doesn't have
a clue.

AFAIK, this type of machine just uses a liquid that freezes
when placed in the freezer. Can't imagine why any such
rule would apply.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

>My wife sometimes takes warnings too literally.
>
>She bought a Cuisinart CIM-60PC ice-cream maker from Costco today:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179506/img/13179506.jpg

For father's day you should get her David Lebovitz's "The Perfect
Scoop" -- in the meantime, google some of his recipes.

Start with Vietnamese Coffee if you like coffee--- otherwise, there is
a good Chocolate Sorbet that he has osted to his blog. . . .

>
>The instructions say (verbatim):
> "If unit is turned on its side or upside down, you will need
> to put it in upright position and wait 24 hours before using."
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179507/img/13179507.jpg

Is this one with its own refrigeration, or does the bowl get frozen
first? [if it is the latter- don't waste your time with it in your
refrigerator freezer-- it really needs a deep freeze.

If it has its own refrigeration, then you need to let the coolant
settle before using.

Jim

[Danny D]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:27 -0700, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> Can't imagine why any such
> rule would apply.

Me neither. Which is why I had asked.

I *can* conjure up all sorts of theories about lopsided refrigerants
filling a honeycomb and swelling them were the bucket to be frozen
on its side - but - that would be sheer conjecture on my part.

You'd think they'd know their own product though; or, at least,
use a semblance of critical thought in the proofreading.

[Danny D]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 20:58:44 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> Is this one with its own refrigeration, or does the bowl get frozen
> first? [if it is the latter- don't waste your time with it in your
> refrigerator freezer-- it really needs a deep freeze.

This has it's own bowl which is frozen in the freezer overnight
(via a mystery fluid, which they won't say what it is).

Same as this one at Amazon, only with the standard Cuisinart
part number and not the Costco-specific part number:

http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-ICE-30BC-Indulgence-2-Quart-Automatic/dp/B0006ONQOC

[Gordon Shumway]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:27 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>The only reason I can think of for this warning is that someone
>writing the instructions heard that refrigerators and freezers, at
>least in some cases, need a period of a day or so to allow the
>refrigerant/oil to return to it's normal location, if the unit has
>been on it's side. This ice cream maker uses completely
>different technology, has no compressor, etc. but it's possible
>that some dummy that wrote the instructions doesn't have
>a clue.

You could be on to something here. However, if some clueless dummy
wrote those instructions let us not forget the higher paid, but just
as clueless, dummy that approved them.

That is a big problem we are facing today is that we have an abundance
of highly educated idiots in the work force. That reminds me of a
story.

I'm a mechanical engineer who retired about five years ago. A few
years before I retired we hired a very young engineer who spoke
English... sort of. He spoke whatever language they speak in India a
whole lot better though.

I had recently bought a new BMW 530i and was fairly happy with it
except for the fact it didn't have a limited slip differential. It
wasn't even available from the factory anymore because of the use of
electronics. Being an old gear head I knew their had to be a better
way.

I found a place online that sold a complete center section with LSD
that would replace the stock unit. I ordered it and installed it with
the help of my son-in-law one Saturday.

When I got to work on Monday I was talking to one of my friends about
what I had done over the weekend and the new engineer overheard the
conversation.

After my friend left the new guy was so amazed of what he heard he
asked if I really did what I said I did, giving me the impression that
he believed what I did was almost God-like.

At that point I said if you don't know how to do that kind of work
there is no way you can do this job well.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 21:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

>My wife sometimes takes warnings too literally.
>
>She bought a Cuisinart CIM-60PC ice-cream maker from Costco today:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179506/img/13179506.jpg
>
>The instructions say (verbatim):
> "If unit is turned on its side or upside down, you will need
> to put it in upright position and wait 24 hours before using."
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179507/img/13179507.jpg
>

>I can "guess" that there is a viscous liquid in the freezing
>bowl, but it must be *really* thick to take 24 hours to settle.

I have the a similar thing. It does take about 24 hours for it to
really freeze through. I've tried it after 8 hours and it did not
work as well. Not sure what is inside the bowl, but some sort of
liquid. I store it in the freezer all the time so it is always ready.

I wonder if the instructions are "universal" and applies to self
contained refrigerated units?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 20:47:17 -0500, Gordon Shumway
<Rho...@Planet.Melmac> wrote:


>
>After my friend left the new guy was so amazed of what he heard he
>asked if I really did what I said I did, giving me the impression that
>he believed what I did was almost God-like.
>
>At that point I said if you don't know how to do that kind of work
>there is no way you can do this job well.

Makes you wonder. My brother was an ME too. He did that sort of
stuff in high school, as did most of the ME students back then.

[DD_BobK]

On May 28, 6:47 pm, Gordon Shumway <Rho...@Planet.Melmac> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:27 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"

Gordon.... truer (or more applicable) words were never spoke.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 01:17:08 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

[cool-- I've got both of the books they suggest-- I've never made
anything from the Ben & Jerry's book-- but Lebovitz is an ice cream
God]

With that style it is imperative that all that fluid is down at the
bottom of the bowl where the cream is turning to ice. I imagine
it is the same mystery fluid that is in my Kitchenaid attachment.

I wonder if part of their concern is also freezing up near the top of
the container where there isn't room for expansion?

I like mine-- The price was right-- and the bowl [and paddle] lives
in the freezer until needed.

If frozen to -20F you *might* get a second batch of ice cream in
before it quits freezing. Chill the mixture overnight, too.

There is *no* commercial ice cream that come close to what you can do
with one of these.

Jim

[Steve Barker]

I'd just throw that away, and get a proper White Mountain Ice Cream
Freezer and do it properly.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

[dgk]

The warning probably goes into all the models. I recently bought an
ice cream maker from a company called NewAir and it DOES come with a
compressor. That's why I bought it. Cuisinart also makes some models
that have a compressor:

http://www.cuisinartwebstore.com/detail/CUI+ICE-100

So I guess the booklet goes into all the boxes but that bit only
applies the the compressor models.

[tra...@optonline.net]

What exactly is "improper" about the machine Danny has?
Other than using a newer method to get the cold temps required,
it's the same method of making ice cream, no?

[Danny D]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 07:26:34 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> I wonder if part of their concern is also freezing up near the
> top of the container where there isn't room for expansion?

That's what I was initially thinking ... that asymmetrical
freezing may be damaging somehow to the unit.

At this point, I'm glad I told my wife not to worry about it,
but, I noticed she told the grandkids to keep it upright. :)

[Jim Elbrecht]

Steve Barker <ichase...@notgmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/28/2013 4:11 PM, Danny D wrote:
>> My wife sometimes takes warnings too literally.
>>
>> She bought a Cuisinart CIM-60PC ice-cream maker from Costco today:
>> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13179506/img/13179506.jpg

-snip-

>
>I'd just throw that away, and get a proper White Mountain Ice Cream
>Freezer and do it properly.

BS--- I wouldn't own a White mountain just because they don't make a
2qt model. [and they cost 3-4 times what that Cuisinart cost]

I'd consider a 2qt electric- but the dumbest idea in the world would
be a 6 quart hand cranked model that might get used once a year--- Vs
my 2 qt Kitchenaid attachment [other than the motor, the same idea as
that Cuisinart] which makes 10-20 batches of fine ice deserts a year
with damn little effort, less mess, and arguably more control.

Jim

[Oren]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 14:06:05 +0000 (UTC), Danny D <Dan...@example.com>
wrote:

You mentioned saline. That might be the liquid?

As a kid, rock salt was added to the ice in a manual turn ice cream
maker. Was it to expedite the freezing?

The peach ice cream my cousin would make was DANG good.

[Oren]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 12:12:00 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <elbr...@email.com>
wrote:

>>I'd just throw that away, and get a proper White Mountain Ice Cream
>>Freezer and do it properly.
>
>BS--- I wouldn't own a White mountain just because they don't make a
>2qt model. [and they cost 3-4 times what that Cuisinart cost]
>

I noticed this looking the web site.

>I'd consider a 2qt electric- but the dumbest idea in the world would
>be a 6 quart hand cranked model that might get used once a year--- Vs
>my 2 qt Kitchenaid attachment [other than the motor, the same idea as
>that Cuisinart] which makes 10-20 batches of fine ice deserts a year
>with damn little effort, less mess, and arguably more control.
>
>Jim

You'd need an entire family reunion to hand crank 6 qt., I think...
everybody get to sit on top. Then take turns cranking.

[Danny D]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 09:38:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

> The peach ice cream my cousin would make was DANG good

UPDATE:
So is this strawberry ice cream & chocolate mousse I had
for breakfast this morning! :)
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13184748/img/13184748.jpg

In summary, the bucket has a "mystery fluid", which, may
or may not affect the bucket when tipped on its side.

It probably doesn't have any effect; however I can conjure
up a scenario where it 'could' have an effect, if, perchance,
the fluid collects on one side of a honeycomb, then freezes,
expanding in the process, and then busting the container.

However, calling the customer support line for Cuisinart
wasn't able to discern whether this is the case or not
as they didn't have the same wording in their booklets.

LESSON LEARNED?
Don't trust the warnings you read in the Cuisinart booklet.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 29, 1:44 pm, Danny D <Dan...@example.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2013 09:38:12 -0700, Oren wrote:
> > The peach ice cream my cousin would make was DANG good
>
> UPDATE:
> So is this strawberry ice cream & chocolate mousse I had
> for breakfast this morning! :)
>  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13184748/img/13184748.jpg
>
> In summary, the bucket has a "mystery fluid", which, may
> or may not affect the bucket when tipped on its side.
>
> It probably doesn't have any effect; however I can conjure
> up a scenario where it 'could' have an effect, if, perchance,
> the fluid collects on one side of a honeycomb, then freezes,
> expanding in the process, and then busting the container.

The "fluid" is similar to the fluid used in ice packs that
you freeze. I have a similar machine, not Cuisinart, and
you can hear the fluid if you shake it when it's at room temp.
Like those ice packs, it sounds thin. So, I say BS to the
notion that the fluid needs 24 hours to go anywhere.

>
> However, calling the customer support line for Cuisinart
> wasn't able to discern whether this is the case or not
> as they didn't have the same wording in their booklets.
>
> LESSON LEARNED?
> Don't trust the warnings you read in the Cuisinart booklet.

As others have suggested, I would not be surprised that
some dummy there just copied and used parts of the
instructions from other ice cream makers that had
actual refrigerant units, compressors, etc

[Danny D]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 10:59:44 -0700, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

> I say BS to the notion that the fluid needs 24 hours to go anywhere.

Yes. I agree.

In summary, that's the end result.

Thanks.

[Oren]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 09:38:12 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>The peach ice cream my cousin would make was DANG good.

I meant to add her DANG good pineapple ice cream.

Y'all try it if you have a maker and find a recipe.

...
note to self. call a second cousin for pineapple ice cream ingredients

[DD_BobK]

Lesson to be learned.....

strawberry ice cream & chocolate mousse for breakfast contributes to
and helps maintain "a bit of gut".... :)

[Danny D]

[The Daring Dufas]

There were competent, literate, intelligent people called technical
writers at one time if I remember correctly who would review and
proofread all documentation a company supplied to its customers but I
supposed they went away with all the other competent, literate,
intelligent people who were once common in the workforce. o_O

TDD

[Steve Barker]

Our 6qt. wm is electric and gets used every sunday afternoon.

and no we don't cook the damn recipe either.