Which tractor is better?

[pete_...@my-deja.com]

I have a Toro Wheelhorse model 312 that I bought last year. I thought
it was supposed to be a nice machine but I am not that happy on the
quality of cut on the lawn. I am thinking about selling it or trading
it on a John Deere tractor LX 255.

My question to you is, am I buying a better model tractor in the John
Deere LX 255 or should I look for another JD model?

I have 1 acre to mow in which the front and back is a hill. I also mow
twice a week. The hill is an issue to me because the John Deere has the
hydro transmission and I an not sure that it would be strong enough to
handle the hill.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!
Pete

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Mark Stiegel]

Pete,

I'm not sure which tractor is the better, but I have a John Deere # 265
which is a 17 HP single-cylinder lawn and garden tractor. I've had it for 7
years now with absolutely no problems. I have a "hill" in my front yard
because the house is situated on top of a small hill (a Michigan hill which
is different from a "real" hill), and the tractor seems to work fine.
Occasionally, it may bog-down a tad when I'm aerating and doing so up and
down the hill.

Since you have an acre to cut, I would check to see if the wheels of the
model you plan to buy have bearings instead of bushings.....bushings most
likely will not take the abuse that a 1-acre yard will dish out. Good luck.

Mark

<pete_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8k4e7v$gco$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[renov8r]

Pete:

If you are looking for a good quality of cut, you won't find it
from a tractor. The decks on 99% of tractors are designed for
SPEED not eveness or uniformity. A ZTR will generally give better
results, real-type mowers can also do a heck of a nice job.

The one tractor with a consistently nice cutting result is a
Simplicity. http://www.simplicitymfg.com/select/guidetractor.htm

The downside is a very spotty network of dealers...

I just sweat it out behind my Ariens, but I was thisclose to
getting a ZTR...

Good Luck!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com

[Wayne Dohnal]

On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:17:24 GMT, pete_...@my-deja.com wrote:

>I have a Toro Wheelhorse model 312 that I bought last year. I thought
>it was supposed to be a nice machine but I am not that happy on the
>quality of cut on the lawn. I am thinking about selling it or trading
>it on a John Deere tractor LX 255.
>

<snip>

I've had a Toro 266H for about 5 years and I've been fairly happy with
it, so I'm surprized yours is not performing well. Mine has a
2-cylinder Kohler engine, and the engine/tractor combination have been
totally solid. (The tiller is another story. It keeps falling apart
when I use it heavily on my hard-as-rock clay soil). I have the 38"
recycler mowing deck, which doesn't seem to be available on the 312.
Maybe that's where the difference lies. I have the hydrostatic
transmission, and some hills which are not steep. I don't detect any
slippage when going forward, but reverse is definitely on the weak
side.

Wayne Dohnal

[raymondj]

I have the John Deere LT155, probably smaller than the LX255. I have
a 1 acre lot with hills and it is fine. I bought the hydro trans due
to the hills, if my land were flat I would have bought the LT133.

On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:17:24 GMT, pete_...@my-deja.com wrote:

>I have a Toro Wheelhorse model 312 that I bought last year. I thought
>it was supposed to be a nice machine but I am not that happy on the
>quality of cut on the lawn. I am thinking about selling it or trading
>it on a John Deere tractor LX 255.
>

[OsiTech.Net]

Amen to that Brother.
--
OsiTech.Net
Computer Support and Solutions for Inland Empire
http://www.ositech.net

renov8r <renov8r...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:39b39bc8...@usw-ex0108-063.remarq.com...

[RESPITE95]

I have a Honda 16hp witha 42inch cut and more ground to cover than you. It
will run like a scalded dog and cut anything you can ride down while giving a
smooth grass cut. It is a water cooled engine like your car and is very well
made. I have had it for about seven years and had no problems. It does turn
the blades at very high speed and wear out a set of blades each growing
season. Cost about the same as JD.

[renov8r]

The current models of Honda lawn tractors ARE JD's with Honda
engines...

They Honda USA people could not afford to build the tractors
anymore. The one you
have would probably cost three or four times what you paid for
it, if you could even get such high quality in a small unit...

MTD has decimated the profit margins for lawn tractors and
EVERYBODY is racing to save a few cents...Meanwhile the prices on
JD commercial "turf care" products climbs ten to twenty percent a
year... My budy with the lawn care company was complaining that
every time he stops by the dealership the prices are a few
hundred bucks higher- he said they are raising prices monthly,
and even the golf courses will eventaully cry uncle, but the park
districts and municipalities can "just raise taxes"... OUCH!!

[Grif]

Since it is the quality of cut that you are not satisfied with why not
beg, borrow, rent, or just plain steal a tractor from a dealer near
you.
I would imagine any "good" dealer would have a tractor you could
actually use in the real world on your lawn... May cost you a few
bucks but !

Bob Griffiths
=================================

[<<<___ Bob ___>>>]

For years I was very envious of my next door neighbor and his John Deere
with the Kohler motor .. .. .. every time my SEARS Crapsman tractor broke
down, he would tow me home & finish my mowing .. .. ..

Finally in 1991 I broke down & ordered a John Deere #285 complete with the
power blower unit .. .. .. $5800 complete .. .. .. only problem .. .. .. it
came with a Kawasaki engine. Accepting that tractor was the biggest
mistake since the purchase of the Crapsman.

After about 300 hours, one intake valve receded into the head .. .. .. unit
was only weeks out of warranty and the dealer agreed that the valve was not
properly heat treated .. .. .. J.D. offered no assistance with cost of
repairs. We did valve jobs on both heads fortunately because the other one
was not far behind and very close to failure.

A few months later, tractor died while mowing .. .. .. bad coil on one
cylinder .. .. .. replaced coil .. .. .. hmmmm .. .. .. new coil looks
different from original .. .. .. oh well .. .. ..

Following spring .. .. .. other coil died .. .. .. replaced it with the
"newer" model .. .. .. talking with the dealer, found out that the original
coils were found to be defective and no longer used .. .. ..

At about 600 hours, carburetor needed to be rebuilt .. .. ..

Soon after, fuel pump went out .. .. ..

The other day, I was mowing and engine just quit .. .. .. had fuel, had
spark, engine turned over but refused to start .. .. .. pulled valve covers
to be sure valves weren't going again .. .. .. valve train is not moving
when starter turns .. .. .. probably a broken key or gear that drives the
cam, but also possibly a broken cam .. .. .. pulled the engine yesterday and
will probably flip it over & separate the crankcase halves tonight to
inspect.

I'm currently looking seriously at retrofitting a Kohler Command series
18-20 hp engine to this frame. Anybody know where I can ge a deal on a
Kohler with a 1 1/8"dia. crankshaft .. 3 5/32" extension .. 1/4" key way ??
?? ??

Some day I'll own a John Deere I can be proud of, but it will no longer
house that piece of crap Kawasaki FD590V engine !! !! !! Dealer says mine
is a fluke and they are generally pretty reliable, but he also agrees with
my desire to do the swap !! !! !!

Do you really want my opinion of John Deere products or Customer Disservice
?? ?? ?? Probably not !! !! !!

There are numerous GREAT tractors out there .. .. .. Simplicity. TORO, Cub,
Snapper .. .. .. look closely before buying to be sure you buy exactly what
you need. I know that my problems are not the fault of the local dealer
who has tried numerous time to intervene in my behalf with J.D. Customer
Service (to no avail) and it may be that my engine is simply a lemon, but
the factory absolutely refuses to help with any of these problems. I
failed to mention .. .. .. the dealer who kept trying to get me some
consideration from J.D. isn't even the place where I bought it .. .. .. the
selling dealer went out of business in 1992 and the guy whose been trying to
help me moved into the area and opened up for business in 1994.

--
<<< BOB >>>

[Matt]

Since you have one of the LAST TRUE WHEEL HORSEs, the tractor
you have will mow rings around any John Deere ever built. Let's see if
we can't get your mowing quality up to spec.

First, you don't say what size mower deck you have. Since the 312
takes any one of 5 different mower decks, some of which are Toro
garbage instead of real Wheel Horses, we will begin by assuming
you have the 42" side discharge or the 36" rear discharge. These are
the best two mowers to have for quality of cut. The rear discharge will
leave the clippings in unsightly clumps, but it will provide the smoothest
cut due to its ability to float more closely over narrow ripples in the
lawn.
The 42" can scalp in the middle if the lawn has a lot of swales. The
48" is too wide and too much load for your 12 hp. and the 44" is a
piece of Toro crap (b**l s**t). The 42" rear discharge has too low a
front edge on the stamping and can take divots out, even though it
predates Toro's take over. If you have anything other than the 42"
side discharge or a 36" (there was also a 37" side discharge, but I
believe it is discontinued) see if you can get a trade in for the 42"
side on just the deck.

Park on a hard, level surface. Set the wheel lever to the hieght of cut you
desire and lower the tractor lift handle all the way. If the tractor has
the
"optional" dial-a-hieght, lower it all the way as well. The mower deck
should be resting on its JUST its REAR wheels.

First, make certain that the rear wheel cross shaft on the deck is not
bent, the rear deck follower wheels are both in good condition, and well
greased.

Next check the tire pressure in all the tractor tires. Only the front ones
are critical, but a very low rear one will have an effect.

Check that there is one thin washer between each blade and its spindle.
If someone mixed up the washers on the shafts the blades will never line
up.

Check that all the blades are sharp, and rotate them carefully so that the
outer ones point side to side. Measure from the blade tip to the ground at
the outside on each side. These should be within a quarter inch, although
an eighth is better. Now turn the blades 180 degrees, watching the tips
where the outer blades "overlap" the center one. The tips should be within
an eighth of an inch vertically, and the outer measurements should match
the ones taken earlier. (On the 37" side discharge, there is a j-bolt
connecting
the left and right wheels together, you can adjust the left to right level
there, on the others, it is fixed, you need a new cross shaft.)

Now turn the blades so that they are ALL straight front to rear. There is a

j-bolt on the back of the mower, running from the wheel cross shaft up to
the hanger arm. The front edge of each blade should be one-eighth inch
to three-sixteenths inch lower than the rear edge of the blade. Too much
and the deck will cup out at the middle, not enough and the rear of the
deck
will drag through the just cut grass, shredding it. Tighten (shorthen) the
j-bolt
to raise the front of the deck, loosen (lengthen) it to lower the front. Do
NOT
believe the owners manuals when they say to run the back of the deck lower.
This puts double the load on the engine, and cuts each blade of grass at
least twice. The second cut is so small however, that the grass is torn
more
than it is cut.

Lastly, you will find two carriage bolts with collars and nuts sticking out
each
side of a brace at the front top sides of the deck. Put the mower transport
lift
(the big arm on the tractor) all the way up. Move the carriage bolts up or
down
as needed to level the deck again front to back for transport.

Lower the lift handle all the way down. The mower should again be resting
just the
rear wheels. The anti-scalp rollers should be about an inch off the ground.
You are
now ready to mow.

Make sure you run the engine at full throttle, 3450 RPM. This should solve
your
quality of cut problems. If you aren't able to do this yourself, contact a
dealer who
sold Wheel Horse BEFORE Toro took it over. They should know what to do,
unlike most of the Toro dealers who got stuck with it, whether they wanted
it
or not.

J. Matthew Good
return address corrupt - remove NO and SPAM to correct.

pete_...@my-deja.com wrote in article <8k4e7v$gco$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

> I have a Toro Wheelhorse model 312 that I bought last year. I thought
> it was supposed to be a nice machine but I am not that happy on the
> quality of cut on the lawn. I am thinking about selling it or trading
> it on a John Deere tractor LX 255.
>

> Pete

[pete_...@my-deja.com]

Matt....

Thanks for all your advice!

I have the 42" rear discharge and the problem that I have is when I
finished mowing my lawn and look up a hill that I have in my back yard,
I see a lot of blades of grass that are sticking straight up. This is
really noticeable when I mow and tow the sweeper. You should see all of
the grass that is standing up. It seem like the deck is not producing
enough suction to stand up the blades of grass while cutting them.

My one neighbor has the John Deere and it cuts great. My other neighbor
has a Wheelhorse that is about 20 years old which cuts so much better
that mine. So, to say the lease I am discouraged.

I have tried mowing in fist gear only, I have tried new blades, I have
looked at the deck and made sure that it is adjusted properly. My
tractor only has 60 hours on it and it is a year old.

You mentioned the deck sizes, would the 38" rear discharge be have that
much of a better cut than the 42" rear discharge? I do not have any
problem with scalping, just the cut quality.

Any further suggestion?

Thanks,
Pete

In article <01bfeaf7$251de0c0$6a8a82d1@dorothy>,

[de...@erols.com]

Bob-
I am curious to know if you have been successful in replacing the
Kawasaki with a Kohler engine. I too have a fd590v in my JDeere 320 and
I too purchased my JD at the urging of my neighbor, an owner of a
trouble-free Kohler powered JDeere.

I have 425 hours on my tractor and other than having both coils replaced
(at my expense), the engine has not been a problem ... until now. I have
an oil leak at the left front of the engine that can only be fixed by
removing the engine and replacing the gasket, This of course means
removing the engine from the chassis for I am sure many $$ if the JD
dealer does the work. Right now I am trying to mow my two acres in
sections so as not to bring the oil temp to max. temp for extended
periods. I have tightened bolts and that seems to have helped some but
the leak is there and noticeable. Apparently JD still uses this engine
in all its upper end lawn and garden tractors. I would not buy another
Kawasaki powered John Deere.
David Cox
de...@erols.com

In article <3968FC07...@att.net>,

[Fish]

Contact a John Deere dealer. They should be able to give
you a Kohler replacement engine number for your unit. I
have encountered trouble when repairing Kawasaki engines.
You must note that your complaints have been aimed at the
engine make and not the mower. Personally I hate working
on Deeres, but mower wise they are constructed fairly well.
The choice of going Kawasaki is most likely the fault of a
snot nosed college grad, focused more on short term numbers,
than not factoring in long term customer satisfaction and
product durability. Most equipment manufacturers are guilty
of this in the last decade or so, and it is the fault of
their bosses and stockholders. The college grads have
learned it is best to tell people what they want to hear.
Also check some of the engine sellers online.
Fish

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

[foxeye]

Whats wrong with a Kawasaki motor.........I have a one cylinder 17hp
on a garden / lawn tractor that has never caused me one
problem.....has a bit over 1,000 hours on it in dusty conditions, and
just runs like the day it was made.........On my other JD it has a 17
hp 2 cyl kohler and it has over 4,700 hours. Had another 17 hp Kohler
that went to 2,000 hours and it was wore out totally. Everything wore
uniformily. Both tractors with the Kohler were identical and bought
the same day. One is dead and used for parts, and the other is going
strong.....these were JD 317's hydrostatic units........That is one
little tractor that thinks its a big boy! All tractors have routine
maint pulled on them and the oil changed religiously!
Don't loose faith in A Kawasaki motor.

Foxeye

"Remove nospam to send email"
nospam...@hotmail.com
chi...@nospamhotmail.com
Foxeye don't live at ddyne.com anymore thankyou!
Just my .02 cents worth!

[<<<___ Bob ___>>>]

I have a Kaw. FD590V on a J.D. #285 .. .. .. so far, with less than 500 hours .. .. ..

Changed both coils & ignition module .. .. ..
Replaced all valves .. .. .. improper heat treating was confirmed by the dealer but J.D. refused to give a penny toward repair .. .. ..
Replaced cam & lifters .. .. .. the PLASTIC GEAR that was being held on to the cam with large POP RIVETS sheared the fasteners and was dead in the water .. ..
..
Rebuilt carburetor .. .. ..

NONE OF THESE REPAIRS were covered by J.D. as they all started occurring almost immediately after the warranty ran out !! !! !!

BTW .. .. .. the replacement cam. coils, & ignition module were all of a much different design than the flawed parts they replaced .. .. .. a sure sign J.D.
& Kaw realized they were a poor design .. .. ..

<<<__ Bob __ >>>