Re: How do I add freon to a portable air conditioner?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 8/31/2015 9:53 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:09:12 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> 1) EPA certification required. Piercing valve,
>> manifold gages, charge weight scale, and more.
>>
>> 2) Very often, poor cooling is caused by problems
>> other than low freon. What's the discharge temp,
>> the superheat, amp draw, and other data?
>> --
>> .
>
> What's the first thing you check when any AC isn't
cooling and the fans are running. Cleanliness is next
to cooliness. ^_^
>
> [8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
>

In about 1988, I had a through the wall AC in the back
of my shop. One hot day I plugged it in, and it blew
cold air for about ten minutes. I called all the AC guys
I could find in the book. One came out. We two men lifted
out the unit, and took it apart. I used a cordless drill
with screw driver tip, and he used analog acoustic screw
driver. He had some stuff to spray on, and I ran my garden
hose out to rinse. Unit ran fine after that. Best $75 I
ever spent, got me started in the AC field.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:09:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>1) EPA certification required. Piercing valve,
>manifold gages, charge weight scale, and more.
>

The certification takes about 20 minutes on the internet and if this
is using a modern gas, it is not even needed.

>2) Very often, poor cooling is caused by problems
>other than low freon. What's the discharge temp,
>the superheat, amp draw, and other data?

I doubt anyone is doing any of this on a window shaker. They are
really like Bic lighters. You use them until they break and get a new
one.
If someone wanted to gamble a few bucks on a can of 134 to nurse
another month or so out of it, why not. It won't take up any more
space in the land fill.

[Marc]

I just got a Haier HPAC7M portable AC w/no manual. I opened it up and didn't
see where to add freon. I know each unit is different. I'm just looking for
a general idea of what to look for and where.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...

>I just got a Haier HPAC7M portable AC w/no manual. I opened it up and
>didn't see where to add freon. I know each unit is different. I'm just
>looking for a general idea of what to look for and where.
>

Once you get the required license to do that type of work, you can get the
diagram that shows you where.

Refrigeration is no longer a DIY job.

[DanG]

Most window and portable type units do not have service ports in
them. A licensed HVAC man can install ports so that gauges can be
used. Without gauges and knowledge there is virtually nothing for
DIY's to try beyond cleaning the coils.

The very fact you asked what you did says you do not have the
gauges or the knowledge.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgri...@7cox.net

"Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...

[Telstra]

This is a sealed system and is not equipted with service valves.
Process tubes are Installed in Compressor Housings during
manufacture for dehydration and charging and these are adapted
by service technicians by the addition of an access valve.
Access valves can be of various types frome line tap to a brazed
schrader access port.
Out of curiosity why do you want to add refrigerant to this Unit

"Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...

[Stormin Mormon (on backup computer)]

You use a piercing valve on the process stub, or the suction line. I've
recharged AC for myself, and for friends. It's not dificult if you have the
EPA certificate, and some specialized tools and training.

--

Christopher A. Young
(Using backup computer. In a couple
days I will be back on my regular
email adress.)
.
.

"Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...

[Moe Jones]

If incorrectly work on the unit you could do more damage and if money is a
issue then you might want to contact a local vocational school and see if
you could drop off the unit so the students can check it out.

That way they get some experience and you can save some money.

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com

[ds...@webtv.net]

i recomend you get an ac book at the library and study hvac
before you work on it. ac systems are very simple but you need to have
knowledge how they work , and service procedures. lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

[dpb]

ds...@webtv.net wrote:
> i recomend you get an ac book at the library and study hvac
> before you work on it. ac systems are very simple but you need to have
> knowledge how they work , and service procedures. lucas

Not to mention the equipment which virtually no homeowner has...

--

[ds...@webtv.net]

Not to mention the equipment which virtually no homeowner has...

-------------------------------- when my
cousin retired from doing ac work, i found the ac companies allways
wanted to replace the units rather than fix them, so i bought my own ac
equipment and do it myself , the equipment isnt very expensive at all.
lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

[JoeSpareBedroom]

<ds...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23916-46D...@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net...

How much you wanna bet the OP will try and fix it anyway, even after all the
warnings he's gotten here? :-)

Headline:
"Doctors Remove AC Compressor from Area Man's Skull"

[@usenet.com]

<ds...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23916-46D...@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net...

> Not to mention the equipment which virtually no homeowner has...
> -------------------------------- when my
> cousin retired from doing ac work, i found the ac companies allways
> wanted to replace the units rather than fix them, so i bought my own ac
> equipment and do it myself , the equipment isnt very expensive at all.

What amount of money do you feel isn't very expensive?

Do you own a recovery machine and tank?

[Self sufficent]

replying to Edwin Pawlowski, Self sufficent wrote:

> esp wrote:
>
> "Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...

> Once you get the required license to do that type of work, you can get the
> diagram that shows you where.
> Refrigeration is no longer a DIY job.

Do the Pros seriously expect us to believe it's harder then recharging and
automobile ?!? (which is common place) After all the braggadocios
responces it's any wonder why we don't call for your paid help in the
first place.



--

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:44:01 +0000, Self sufficent

<caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:

>replying to Edwin Pawlowski, Self sufficent wrote:
>> esp wrote:
>>
>> "Marc" <junk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:13dc92o...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Once you get the required license to do that type of work, you can get the
>> diagram that shows you where.
>> Refrigeration is no longer a DIY job.
>
>
>
>Do the Pros seriously expect us to believe it's harder then recharging and
>automobile ?!? (which is common place)

It is, because there are no connectors provided. Nothing to screw the
hose to. I think cars lose more freon because they bounce around
more.

> After all the braggadocios
>responces it's any wonder why we don't call for your paid help in the
>first place.

Don't call me. I don't care, and I don't think Ed does either.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:46:44 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

If you just want to give it a spritz and pray, put a piercing valve in
the low side and shoot some in. If this is a R134 system it is easy to
get a little can of gas. I would not count on it for a permanent fix
but it might get you through the season.

[Uncle Monster]

It's been 8 years since the original post by Marc. He replaced the AC 7 years ago. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

[Ashton Crusher]

The new AC should be due for a checkup and possible spritz now though.

[Ralph Mowery]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:kd64ual5cp9gii821...@4ax.com...

>> It is, because there are no connectors provided. Nothing to screw the
> hose to. I think cars lose more freon because they bounce around
> more.
>
>>

Cars often loose the refrigerant because it is difficult to seal up the
compressor shaft. A small unit that is powered by electricity is easier to
make a sealed unit.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:36:27 -0400,

I don't know why I did it but last fall I added "freon" to the car I was
borrowing from a friend. It was silly because the hot weather was
almost over. I didn't use the whole can, the little cans they sell.

8 months later, I opened the valve a bit and there was still freon
inside, under pressure, even though I thought the needle wihich
punctured the top of the can wouldn't make a very good seal.

I shut the valve quickly. I suppose now that my car's working again, I
shoudl put it in that. Een though the AC works well, I did have to add
a can 2 years ago, so there's probably room to add more.

[Stormin Mormon]

1) EPA certification required. Piercing valve,
manifold gages, charge weight scale, and more.

2) Very often, poor cooling is caused by problems
other than low freon. What's the discharge temp,
the superheat, amp draw, and other data?

--

[Uncle Monster]

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:09:12 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> 1) EPA certification required. Piercing valve,
> manifold gages, charge weight scale, and more.
>
> 2) Very often, poor cooling is caused by problems
> other than low freon. What's the discharge temp,
> the superheat, amp draw, and other data?
> --
> .

[boaby]

replying to Edwin Pawlowski, boaby wrote:
Job protection. How difficult can it be?

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/how-do-i-add-freon-to-a-portable-air-conditioner-245985-.htm

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/4/2016 9:44 AM, boaby wrote:
> replying to Edwin Pawlowski, boaby wrote:
> Job protection. How difficult can it be?
>

About the same as in 2007 when this was first posted. Have the tools yet?

[kcwayne3]

replying to Marc, kcwayne3 wrote:
You wont find one its a sealed circuit

[Unceasingly Amazed]

replying to micky, Unceasingly Amazed wrote:
That's good 'ol American customer service right there. And they wonder why we
want to outsource everything to India and China.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/how-do-i-add-freon-to-a-portable-air-conditioner-245985-.htm

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 5/15/2017 7:14 AM, Unceasingly Amazed wrote:
> replying to micky, Unceasingly Amazed wrote:
> That's good 'ol American customer service right there. And they wonder
> why we
> want to outsource everything to India and China.
>

I usually uncork the octamacron to reveal the Freon nipple.

[Ante Seput]

replying to Marc, Ante Seput wrote:
Hmmmmm: All portable Units (AC) are Hermeticaly seal, adding gas is not seple
as it may sound.One way is to open system add line tap and add the gas= not so
good, one must know howmuch to add. Two remove all refrigerant and add OEM
recommended amount not so good either, Best way buy new unit!!!!

[tony944]

replying to Self sufficent, tony944 wrote:
Yes it is harder Portable AC are Hermetically seal Cars are not, all cars
trucks have built in service port.

[jay m]

replying to Ante Seput, jay m wrote:
Up to $50,000.00 Federal fine for releasing/purging Freon to atmosphere.

[Pat]

replying to Marc, Pat wrote:
Where is the freon recharge port for lg 0813wnr

[Spunckmaster]

replying to Edwin Pawlowski, Spunckmaster wrote:
I have my license for all systems but do you know where to find the diagram

[bill]

replying to Marc, bill wrote:
You dont i have bought 4 units so far, you can just throw them out. I went to
a pro A/C guy and he said the freon cannot be replaced

[trader_4]

Curious, did this pro give a reason that it can't be replaced? I thought
it could be, it's just that it's not worth it because of the cost. And
the cost is driven by the fact that if the refrigerant is gone, then it's
leaking so it's likely that something, eg the evaporator is shot, so
more than just recharging it is needed.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 7/21/2019 12:14 AM, bill wrote:
> replying to Marc, bill wrote:
> You dont i have bought 4 units so far, you can just throw them out. I
> went to
> a pro A/C guy and he said the freon cannot be replaced
>

Sure, it can be, but the cost would be more than the price of a new AC.
There is a lot of time involved in doing so.

[rangerssuck]

There is NOT a lot of time involved in replacing the refrigerant. What may make it impractical is finding and repairing whatever leak released the refrigerant in the first place. On a system like this, the actual installation of service valves, vacuuming and refilling is maybe an hour's work, Tops. (yes, I am licensed and yes I have the equipment).

[trader_4]

It may be just an hour, but what do you charge for an hour of time? That
plus the cost for the fittings, refrigerant? That alone makes it impractical
when you can buy a 5K to 8K BTU new one for $120 to $150.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <e9486987-5a74-4cd2...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> > There is NOT a lot of time involved in replacing the refrigerant. What may make it impractical is finding and repairing whatever leak released the refrigerant in the first place. On a system like this, the actual installation of service valves, vacuuming and refilling is maybe an hour's work, Tops. (yes, I am licensed and yes
I have the equipment).
>
> It may be just an hour, but what do you charge for an hour of time? That
> plus the cost for the fittings, refrigerant? That alone makes it impractical
> when you can buy a 5K to 8K BTU new one for $120 to $150.
>
>
>

While not a lot is involved, it is impractical price wise.

First you have to install the valves to recharge it . That requires
breking the line. Not sure how you would recover the refrigerent left
in the system,but that is required by law. Put a vacuum on the system
and recharge it. Find the leak which may or may not be easy to get to
and repair. After finding the leak, recover the refrigerent and repair
the leak. If the line is aluminum, it may be difficult. Pull the
vacuum and recharge the system and retest.

I doubt that could be done in an hour. I have no idea what a standard
repair charge is per hour for labor. If it is anywhere like what I was
charged when the man came out and just spent 10 minuits replacing a
motor capacitior on my heat pump ( about $ 300), you could buy 3 or 4
new units.

I doubt the repair man would even repair his own dehumidifier if he had
any work at all to do.

[gfre...@aol.com]

If you make up your mind this is a throw away anyhow you could just
buy a piercing valve and shoot in some R134 (walmart car area). It
might not be the right refrigerant and it might not last long but if
it blows cold air until you get around to buying a new one it might
work for you. Squirt in a little, wait a few minutes, try it, repeat
until it is blowing cold air. Too much is as bad as not enough. A
whole can is probably too much unless it is totally empty.
I did that with an old fridge and it lasted until I moved to Florida
(a few years). For all I know it may still be working but I really
doubt it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

A new AC can be $129 and up.
Do you have the fittings needed on hand? You are going to nitrogen
braze them right? If you are doing this in an hour you are not doing a
very good job on vacuum.

Do do it right, what is a fair price?

[Clare Snyder]

And at your retail rate that would save the customer what? about $15?
Repeat next year because the leak was not found and fixed??

[Clare Snyder]

With 134 it's likely only about 4 ounces - or a quarter can. I did
an old fridge years ago with the pierce valve and R22 - topped it up
about 4 times from one can of refrigerant over a period of mabee 2
years - then scrapped it.

[rangerssuck]

WTF? Nobody here can read? Let me help you with the second sentence of what I wrote:
"What may make it impractical is finding and repairing
whatever leak released the refrigerant in the first place."

There is also the matter of not sending more crap to a landfill...

[trader_4]

IDK what your disposal costs are, but here I just put her out on the
curb on the once a month bulk pick up day and the town takes her away,
no charge. Are you suggesting people should spend $300 to try to fix
a busted window AC when you can buy a new one for $120, to avoid sending
the old one to the landfill? IDK if they even send them to the landfill,
isn't there enough metal in there that they go to recycling anyway?

[Bob F]

On 7/21/2019 2:49 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 3:20:56 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 08:46:32 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
>>> <range...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 11:21:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>> On 7/21/2019 12:14 AM, bill wrote:
>>>>>> replying to Marc, bill wrote:
>>>>>> You dont i have bought 4 units so far, you can just throw them out. I
>>>>>> went to
>>>>>> a pro A/C guy and he said the freon cannot be replaced
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, it can be, but the cost would be more than the price of a new AC.
>>>>> There is a lot of time involved in doing so.
>>>>
>>>> There is NOT a lot of time involved in replacing the refrigerant. What may make it impractical is finding and repairing whatever leak released the refrigerant in the first place. On a system like this, the actual installation of service valves, vacuuming and refilling is maybe an hour's work, Tops. (yes, I am licensed and yes I have the equipment).
>>> And at your retail rate that would save the customer what? about $15?
>>> Repeat next year because the leak was not found and fixed??
>>
>> WTF? Nobody here can read? Let me help you with the second sentence of what I wrote:
>> "What may make it impractical is finding and repairing
>> whatever leak released the refrigerant in the first place."
>>
>> There is also the matter of not sending more crap to a landfill...
>
> IDK what your disposal costs are, but here I just put her out on the
> curb on the once a month bulk pick up day and the town takes her away,
> no charge.

Here that costs $38, and you have to schedule it.

[gfre...@aol.com]

Free or more correctly, included in the regular waste charge here (Lee
County Fl). We just set them out and they come get it. You can call or
if it is around trash day the regular trash guy calls it in for you.

[Grumpy Old White Guy]

Here we put it by the curb with a "For Sale $50" sign and it's magically gone by sunrise.

--
Get off my lawn!

[maxmul...@gmail.com]

понедельник, 22 июля 2019 г., 14:24:49 UTC+3 пользователь Grumpy Old White Guy написал:

that's nice!

[vladfi...@gmail.com]

четверг, 30 августа 2007 г., 4:58:29 UTC+3 пользователь Marc написал:
> I just got a Haier HPAC7M portable AC w/no manual. I opened it up and didn't
> see where to add freon. I know each unit is different. I'm just looking for
> a general idea of what to look for and where.

Hey, so I think that the general idea is to add fun with the help of some service. However, when I had a situation where my air conditioner got broken without freezing and I wanted to add it by myself but later it got broken all over. Since that situation, I searched on different forums about this and I found an article about aircon service https://www.socool.sg/ that helped me to resolve that sticky situation.

[scott...@gmail.com]

I’ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it’s right here or it’s right there or its behind this I still don’t know where the hell it isI don’t get it what is it a secret for AC guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn’t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don’t want to tear it upThat’s why am asking

[Rhonda]

On 5/31/20 3:43 AM, scott...@gmail.com wrote:
> I’ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it’s right here or it’s right there or its behind this I still don’t know where the hell it isI don’t get it what is it a secret for AC guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn’t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don’t want to tear it upThat’s why am asking

First you need to fix the leak...which is likely more trouble than it's worth.

[trader_4]

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 3:43:56 AM UTC-4, scott...@gmail.com wrote:
> I’ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it’s right here or it’s right there or its behind this I still don’t know where the hell it isI don’t get it what is it a secret for AC guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn’t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don’t want to tear it upThat’s why am asking

I haven't been inside a portable AC in decades, but AFAIK, small refrigeration
devices like that typically don't have service ports to add refrigerant. They
are charged and sealed at the factory. If it becomes necessary to add
refrigerant, they figure it's leaking, it will be opened and worked on and
then service ports can be brazed in to recharge it. It makes sense. Ports
like that on cars, central AC are one of the prime places for leaks that
cause the refrigerant to be lost. Bottom line, if it needs refrigerant,
then somehow it leaked out and that needs to be fixed first. All the above
translates into time for a new AC, typical window units start at $100.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/31/2020 3:43 AM, scott...@gmail.com wrote:
> I’ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it’s right here or it’s right there or its behind this I still don’t know where the hell it isI don’t get it what is it a secret for AC guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn’t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don’t want to tear it upThat’s why am asking
>

Not easy to do. There are no ports like you would find on a big unit or
auto unit. To do it properly you have to find the leak. Refrigeration
is not the same as a water pipe though. To fix the leak you have to
evacuate the system. Before soldering you add an inert has to avoid
contamination, then solder or braze. Draw a vacuum and then recharge
with the proper amount of refrigerant by weight. Seal it.

The easier and more economical way is to head to WalMart or Lowes and
buy a new unit.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <b4b89ea1-ed36-439d...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 3:43:56 AM UTC-4, scott...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I?ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it?s right here or it?s right there or its behind this I still don?t know where the hell it isI don?t get it what is it a secret for AC
guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn?t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don?t want to tear it upThat?s why am asking

>
> I haven't been inside a portable AC in decades, but AFAIK, small refrigeration
> devices like that typically don't have service ports to add refrigerant. They
> are charged and sealed at the factory. If it becomes necessary to add
> refrigerant, they figure it's leaking, it will be opened and worked on and
> then service ports can be brazed in to recharge it. It makes sense. Ports
> like that on cars, central AC are one of the prime places for leaks that
> cause the refrigerant to be lost. Bottom line, if it needs refrigerant,
> then somehow it leaked out and that needs to be fixed first. All the above
> translates into time for a new AC, typical window units start at $100.
>
>
>
>

++1

The small and even large appliances like the refrigerators do not have
any service ports to add refrigerant to them. Freon is a trade name.
There are several types of "Freon", and now several other types of
refrigerent. You would have to know what kind to add. Years ago it was
usually r-22 for many home items and r-12 for cars. Due to the ozone
depelation caused by this (true or not) they have been phased out and
many other chemicals are used in the last 20 or so years.

For most cooling devices look at the compressor. Then follow the lines,
most likely one will be larger than the other . Follow a line and see
which one goes to the coil outside the house (the coil that gets hot).

On one of the lines you may see a T connector with a short stub sticking
up that is sealed. This is where the refrigerent is put in at the
factory. Due to testing the factory knows to add a certain ammout in
pounds or ounces to the AC. That is added and the line is then sealed.

That is the line you add the 'freon' to. Just after it comes out of the
compressor and before it goes to the 'hot' coil. This is the low
pressure side.

The high pressure side line will come from the coil that gets cool. It
is under much more pressure than the low side. Do not even think of
trying to add anything to that.

If you do not have enough knowlege about the AC to know this, I do not
see how you could even think of adding any refrigerent to the AC. You
will need some gauges to tell you how much to add and some means of
checking the temperatures also.

Most service men would not even think of recharging the low dollar
(under $ 500) items now. When you add up the cost of the refrigerent,
service valves and other items and time, you have exceeded the cost.

[Snag]

Ralph , you've got your service ports switched . Output from the
compressor - the small line - is high side , the big line coming in from
the house is the low side .
--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crotchety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <rb0jg1$p2b$1...@dont-email.me>, snag...@msn.com says...

>
>
> Ralph , you've got your service ports switched . Output from the
> compressor - the small line - is high side , the big line coming in from
> the house is the low side .
>
>

That is what I ment to say. Must have gotten ahead of my self.

But you are right. Big line at compressor is low pressure side and
that is where the refrigerent would normally be added.

[Snag]

After Dad retired from civil service (forced medical) he opened an
AC/Refrigeration repair business . I learned enough to maintain and
repair my own systems , but never followed thru with licensing so I
could do it for others .

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <rb0mm8$edv$1...@dont-email.me>, snag...@msn.com says...

>
> After Dad retired from civil service (forced medical) he opened an
> AC/Refrigeration repair business . I learned enough to maintain and
> repair my own systems , but never followed thru with licensing so I
> could do it for others .
> --
>
>

Where I worked we had some large refregeration equipment. Funny way
that plant operated. I was an electrician and then we had mechanics.
The mechanics did all the major work and I just had to make sure the
electrical part worked. If the motor/compressor went bad I unhooked the
3 480 volt wires going to the motor. The mechanic changed out the
motor/compressor and then I had to hook up those 3 wires again. Crazy
place.

When the government came out with the ozone rules, I and othes sat
through about 3/4 of a day on the rules and then had to take a test at
the end of it to get license to work on them. Big waste of time and
effort as nothing was about how they operated, just the rules.

The whole thing could have been summed up in two minuites. Do not blow
the refrigerent out to the air, but use the recovery machine. If
caught putting the old refrigerent to air, there is a big fine.

[rbowman]

On 05/31/2020 12:39 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Where I worked we had some large refregeration equipment. Funny way
> that plant operated. I was an electrician and then we had mechanics.
> The mechanics did all the major work and I just had to make sure the
> electrical part worked. If the motor/compressor went bad I unhooked the
> 3 480 volt wires going to the motor. The mechanic changed out the
> motor/compressor and then I had to hook up those 3 wires again. Crazy
> place.

I set up a molding system in the Omaha Western Electric plant in the
70's. Theoretically I couldn't touch anything. You needed a millwright
to move the equipment, which necessitated an electrician, plumber since
there were air lines, and a mechanic if anything had to be disconnected.
The plant had huge washrooms where everyone hid out. So, I'd find the
millwright and go looking for an electrician. By the time I dug an
electrician out of hiding the millwright would have wandered off.

I started going in on the second shift when there weren't so many shop
stewards hanging around. I hate seeing American manufacturing going
overseas but it crap like that was partially responsible.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <hjigl5...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
says...

>
> I set up a molding system in the Omaha Western Electric plant in the
> 70's. Theoretically I couldn't touch anything. You needed a millwright
> to move the equipment, which necessitated an electrician, plumber since
> there were air lines, and a mechanic if anything had to be disconnected.
> The plant had huge washrooms where everyone hid out. So, I'd find the
> millwright and go looking for an electrician. By the time I dug an
> electrician out of hiding the millwright would have wandered off.
>
> I started going in on the second shift when there weren't so many shop
> stewards hanging around. I hate seeing American manufacturing going
> overseas but it crap like that was partially responsible.
>
>
>
>

Union plants I can see things like this going on, but this was a plant
in the south and there was not a union. You did what your supervisor
told you to do.

Many years I worked rotating shifts. The plant had to run 24 hours a
day and the process lines could not be just cut off and on. Took about
2 days to do a controlled shutdown and that long to bring up a
production line.

Usually a mechanic and electrician were on shift as breakdown people.
We worked together to do what ever it took to get the breakdown
repaired. If nothing was broke, we just sat on our butts in a break
area or our shops. Some nights we did nothing and some nights we were
lucky to stop 20 minutes for lunch, but that was only about once or
twice a year. Sometimes the mecahnic would wire the simple motor and
somtimes for small motors I would just change and wire them. If either
of us needed a helping hand , we helped each other the best we could.

[gfre...@aol.com]

I don't know what is going on these days but you used to be able to
get "certified" on the internet with a silly course, a 10 question
test and a fee. I have a card around here somewhere that I used to buy
a "lifetime supply" jug of R22 to install a system. I don't know if
that card expires tho.
These days everything uses unregulated gas.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <eg68df5th8lmbu3gd...@4ax.com>,
gfre...@aol.com says...

>
> I don't know what is going on these days but you used to be able to
> get "certified" on the internet with a silly course, a 10 question
> test and a fee. I have a card around here somewhere that I used to buy
> a "lifetime supply" jug of R22 to install a system. I don't know if
> that card expires tho.
> These days everything uses unregulated gas.
>
>

I don't know what the rules are now either. Back when I was certified
we had to take a test. There were several classificationse. I think 3.
Small appliance, high pressure , low pressure system. Then the
universal license for all the above.

When the licenses came back to work, there was something about working
on car AC. The compnay sent off for that. It came back as a small
booklet of about 15 or 20 pages, an open book test and a fee. We sat
down together found the answers and sent off for that.

Found my card and that was back in 1993.

All of that was mainly a money making device for many companies.

I don't know if they still do it or not, but every few years there was a
new program for the companies. One was STAR. People came around and
looked the plant over for safety issues and planted a flagpole and flag
with a star on it.

For about 10 years one man really had it made. He came around and
taught necular safety. Had to take a 3 day course for about 3 years,
then a 2 day course for a couple of years and it was finally a one day
course. Every year it was the same as the first, but with more and more
left out. All we had was some small amounts that were sealed in tubes
about the size of a cigarett and then those were in lead containers that
just had a shutter that opened up. Again, a 30 minuit talk would have
done all we needed to do.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 31 May 2020 00:43:52 -0700 (PDT), scott...@gmail.com wrote:

>I’ve been on this web for an hour and a half to find out where to add Freon to my portable hazier Model number HPY08XCM and for some reason nobody and I mean nobody gives a straight answer it’s right here or it’s right there or its behind this I still don’t know where the hell it isI don’t get it what is it a secret for AC guys only I install Flooring all types anyone have a question Would be more than happy to answer it straight into the point it shouldn’t be a big deal im mechanically inclined I got it apart I just don’t want to tear it upThat’s why am asking

Unless it is different than most it is "non-serviceable" and would
require a technician to braze in a service fitting or two - which
would likely be more expensive than the unit is worth.

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Sun, 31 May 2020 19:45:32 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

If this thing uses a politically correct refrigerant (401 or 134) you
can get a piercing valve in the big line, shoot some gas in until it
blows cold and see how bad it leaks. (squirt some soapy water around)
You might get a season out of it.
That thing probably doesn't hold a whole 14 oz can of gas.

[Clare Snyder]

If it's 134 it lighly doesn't hold much more than 4 oz, tops. My
truck only holds about 8.

[Tekkiez]

On Sun, 31 May 2020 10:50:55 -0400,
Ralph Mowery posted for all of us to digest...

+50 It's just not worth it, sorry.

--
Tekkie

[Tekkiez]

On Sun, 31 May 2020 17:01:15 -0400,
gfre...@aol.com posted for all of us to digest...

> These days everything uses unregulated gas.
>

Like r-290 ;)

--
Tekkie

[cici.pr...@gmail.com]

Here’s a link. I understand People wanting to protect their trade and getting paid, but if you make $19 an hour you can’t afford $125 an hour plus parts if time and $35 will do the trick. Even my mechanic knows that and knows I’ll fix my car unless it’s something I could Lose a finger fixing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+recharge+freon+portable+indoor+aircontioner&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#kpvalbx=_AI4UX8z9E4GGtQbQ-4fQCg55

[trader_4]

On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 2:28:35 PM UTC-4, cici.p...@gmail.com wrote:
> Here’s a link. I understand People wanting to protect their trade and getting paid, but if you make $19 an hour you can’t afford $125 an hour plus parts if time and $35 will do the trick. Even my mechanic knows that and knows I’ll fix my car unless it’s something I could Lose a finger fixing.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+recharge+freon+portable+indoor+aircontioner&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#kpvalbx=_AI4UX8z9E4GGtQbQ-4fQCg55

Give us the cliff notes version of how it makes sense to add refrigerant to
a portable AC. Here is how I see it. The most common portable AC by far
are the relatively inexpensive window units. First you need to be able to
figure out if it's undercharged and without test ports, without being
able to connect a gauge, IDK how you determine that. If it needs refrigerant,
the next problem is it must be leaking and that needs to be found and fixed.
And if the fix is a new coil or similar, then
you're screwed right there, because it's not worth it.
Next AFAIK, they don't have service ports, so you'd have to get the existing
refrigerant out and braze fittings on. AFAIK, law requires the refrigerant
to be recovered, not just vented out. But set that aside, you have to braze
on fittings. To do that correctly, if it's copper you need to first fill
it with nitrogen so that the heat doesn't create oxidized crud inside that
latter fails the unit. After braising, then you can fill it with refrigerant,
assuming you have the eqpt, gauges to do so correctly and can get the
refrigerant. Compare that to the typical 6000 BTU unit that you can buy
for $150 and from what I see, the choice seems obvious. What am I missing?

[Ed Pawlowski]

He did use a self piercing fitting. He also had three cans of R134.
Fix the leak? Nah just keep adding. Gauges? Nah, when it get cold you
are good. Well, maybe.
The equipment he had put together was probably with a few bucks shy of
just buying a new unit. What could go wrong?

[gfre...@aol.com]

OTOH you can get a piercing valve and a can of 134 for less than $10.
Squirt in gas until it blows cold air and go get a beer.
If you get a summer out of it WTF.
That new window shaker might be on sale in a closeout in October.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <_94RG.47794$355....@fx27.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

>
> He did use a self piercing fitting. He also had three cans of R134.
> Fix the leak? Nah just keep adding. Gauges? Nah, when it get cold you
> are good. Well, maybe.
> The equipment he had put together was probably with a few bucks shy of
> just buying a new unit. What could go wrong?
>
>

The one I saw was listed for so many ounces of R22. The oil in those
systems is not usually compatiable with the r134a that was put in. As
there was a leak , the system was probably empty of the r22 so all one
has to do is put in the required ammount of refrigerent.

Hard telling how long the system will run before the oil turns to gel
and locks up the system.

I am not sure what the r134a costs, but if he got the valve for a small
price and the r134a was not too much,he probably came out ok if it lasts
for a couple of years. I take it that the person doing the repair knew
what he was doing.I think it mentioned pulling a vacuum on the system.
So he probably had the knowlege and equipment to do the job.

This is one case of just trying it out and seeing how long it will last.

Just like I have one of the portable 'bathroom' heaters. The off/on
switch went bad. The heater was probably 20 or 30 bucks for a new one.
As I had on had a heavy duty toggle switch and did not care what it
looked like and could do it myself, I used that switch for the repair
job.Should last a long time.

[gfre...@aol.com]

If you saw a R-22 unit, that thing may be old enough to drink :-)
134 has been the standard for manufacture since the turn of the
century anyway. Right now a pound of R-22 costs way more than a new
window shaker but a 14oz can of 134 is about $4-5. I still have a
sealed jug that I am saving to put the grand kids through college ;-)

[trader_4]

I didn't know about piercing valves, but they make sense, since they solve
the no fittings problem. That changes the equation. I agree if you had a
unit with a slow leak and you could get a season out of it with a recharge
it could be worth it. A related question though is what percentage of
portables that stop working have that as the cause? I'd bet that it's
a small percentage. I would think most fail from other causes, eg compressor,
control board or a big leak, eg one of the coils failing, etc.

[Bob F]

He showed exactly where he fixed the leak. With solder.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <rf5lr1$fg4$1...@dont-email.me>, bobn...@gmail.com says...

>
> > He did use a self piercing fitting.  He also had three cans of R134. Fix
> > the leak?  Nah just keep adding.  Gauges?  Nah, when it get cold you are
> > good.  Well, maybe.
> > The equipment he had put together was probably with a few bucks shy of
> > just buying a new unit.  What could go wrong?
>
> He showed exactly where he fixed the leak. With solder.
>
>

The leak was fixed, Then he added the number of ounces of refrigent
that was listed on the lable. Only thing I see he missed was the oil of
r22 is not compatiable with 134a and can cause problems down the line.

[Ed Pawlowski]

When he soldered he also added contamination. Depending how mich there
may be no effect or it will crap out in hours. When I ran the department
building AC coils we ran nitrogen through them while brazing.

[trader_4]

I didn't watch the video, but if he soldered, that's lower temperature than
brazing, so the need for nitrogen to avoid oxidation gunk is lower.
There is a higher content solder
with more silver in it that behaves similar to solder but is stronger. The
company that makes it has videos showing that under pressure, joints that
are brazed fail before the ones using their solder. Apparently the brazing
heat weakens the copper next to the joint.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Sunday, July 19, 2020 2:08PM -0700 (PDT), trader_4

For window systems, a piercing valve (accessibly positioned) hooked up to a leak sealant can (like r134) can do the trick. That recharge liquid is located in the same can. No soldering necessary, and the piercing valve being a valve is self sealing.

> Compare that to the typical 6000 BTU unit that you can buy
>for $150 and from what I see, the choice seems obvious. What am I missing?

In any event, there probably wasn't ever a leak in the first place. Just try to keep the system's copper (or other) pipes as clean and spotless as possible.

[Clare Snyder]

And the 134 charge ans 22 charge are NOT the same. The difference
between 12 asnd 124 is a factoe of about 4 - about 1/4 as much 134 as
12. Not sure the ratio with 134 and 22.
And solder is NOT allowed in refrigeration - it has to be brazed with
phosphor bronze (or silphos)

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:04:50 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

I have seen plenty of systems running for years with 95/5 "hard
solder" joints.

[Tekkie®]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 11:39:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


> >

> When he soldered he also added contamination. Depending how mich there
> may be no effect or it will crap out in hours. When I ran the department
> building AC coils we ran nitrogen through them while brazing.

+1

--
Tekkie

[Tekkie®]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:41:42 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com posted for all
of us to digest...


>

> In any event, there probably wasn't ever a leak in the first place. Just try to keep the system's copper (or other) pipes as clean and spotless as possible.

???????

--
Tekkie

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

After tracing a system's power circuitry, every professional HVAC mechanic makes sure that all copper/aluminum pipes are as clean as possible. A little dishwashing detergent and water covering them should show bubbles when there is a leak. You don't even need the motor running to see bubbles.

[Tekkie®]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:13:46 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com posted for all
of us to digest...

>

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:44PM, Tekkie® wrote:

> After tracing a systems power circuitry every professional HVAC mechanic makes sure that all copper/aluminum pipes are as clean as possible. A little dishwashing detergent and water covering them should show bubbles when there is a leak. You don't even need the motor running to see bubbles.

You mean cleaning the tubing or looking for leaks? Your answer is rather
nebulous...

--
Tekkie

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

It depends on the system. I'm just a helper, I don't know.

[Bob F]

I would imagine that cleaning reduces corrosion by removing debris that
holds moisture.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Corrosion will affect water cooled evaporater pipes especially bad. I don't know they clean those.

[efhug...@gmail.com]

Is this a dumb question:
(Asking for a friend lol)
1. You should know the weight of the new machine when fully charged from the specs.

If you suspect a leak can you weigh it and attribute the difference to the weight of the freon?

If it's the same weight then likely that's not the problem

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <b84b5a70-8ddd-4228...@googlegroups.com>,
efhug...@gmail.com says...

With only a pound or two of refrigerant in the machine, it might be hard
to tell if you loose a few ounces or not.

If you had accurate scales and knew the weight of the machine and how
much dirt and dust that accomilated on it, the method would work, but
not really practical as it only takes a few ounces difference in weight
to make a big difference in cooling.

About like having a truck with a load of bricks and weighing it and then
doing it again after one brick falls off to see how many bricks you have
on the truck.

[trader_4]

I would expect the weight spec on a portable AC or similar is far from
accurate. And it's probably the shipping weight, including the packaging.
Even if it's supposed to be the actual item weight, I would not expect it to
be accurate, could easily be off by more than the small weight of the
refrigerant.

I'm no expert on these, but every AC I've been involved with has a low
pressure cutoff switch. Finding that and seeing if it's open is probably
one way to tell that it's likely a refrigerant leak. And if it is, then
what? If it's very small, like Fretwell suggested, you could recharge it
and get some period of time again, without repairing it. If it's a larger
leak, then it has to be fixed and if that leak is in say the coils, then
it's junk anyway. All things considered, the chance of success is not high
and a new one is typically $125. Also if it's a decade or more old, the
new one will save on electric cost.

[efhug...@gmail.com]

People keep saying a new one costs $125

In Canada, you'd do well to find new one for $350 USD after tax. The 12000 BtU I have made by LG is closer to $450 USD

Everything on it is perfect but it only gets cool, not cold.

Should it cost more than $150 to repair and recharge?

[gfre...@aol.com]

$139 Walmart 5kbtu window shaker. I expect in a month or two they will
be 30% off.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arctic-King-5-000-BTU-115V-Mechanical-Window-Air-Conditioner-WWK05CM01N/524423603

[trader_4]

Probably. Again, it depends on what's wrong. They never need to be recharged
unless they have a leak. If it's a leak, then you have two cases:

very small leak, so you can recharge it every year or two. But unless you
DIY, what's that going to cost?

bigger leak, so where is it leaking? If it's a coil, it's going to cost
so much it winds up junked.

How do you know it's a leak? Is the compressor shot?

How much are you prepared to spend to figure it out? If you fix this,
what about the rest of it compared to a new unit?

Surprised they are so much more expensive in Canada. I;ve seen them here
for as low as $99 for a 5K unit, though I haven't looked recently.
I would think for $125 - $150 there would be many choices here for sure.
Unless you can DIY, are willing to spend the time to try to diagnose it,
have or acquire the necessary tools, it's not a very attractive proposition
to repair them.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <2e3ed57c-0114-4f5f...@googlegroups.com>,
tra...@optonline.net says...

>
> Probably. Again, it depends on what's wrong. They never need to be recharged
> unless they have a leak. If it's a leak, then you have two cases:
>
> very small leak, so you can recharge it every year or two. But unless you
> DIY, what's that going to cost?
>
>

If it is the very small leak and has to be recharged every year, unless
it is a do it yourself, the cost will pay for a new one in 2or 3 years.

I doubt anyone would even look at it for less than $ 50 to $ 100. That
is taking it out of the window and taking it to the shop.

For the home do it your self person, you could get one of the pearcing
valves. Then hope you do not get caught as it used to be a very large
(around $ 10,000) fine, you blead off all the refrigerent to the
atmosphere. Then put in the number of ounces that the name plate calls
for. Just stop the blead when it gets very low so as not to add any air
to the system.

If there is no pressure left in the system to bleed out, you are
probably screwed and need a new unit.

[gfre...@aol.com]

I agree I see $99 units but that $139 one was the top hit on google.

[PROP SG]

Adding freon to a portable air conditioner is a task that requires some technical knowledge and skills. First, you need to identify the correct type of freon required by your unit. Once you have obtained the right type of freon, you can then locate the low-pressure port on the air conditioner and connect the charging hose. It's important to ensure that the charging hose is securely attached to the port to avoid any leaks. Finally, turn on the air conditioner and allow it to run for a few minutes to ensure that the freon has been properly distributed throughout the unit. It's worth noting that adding freon to an air conditioner should only be done by a qualified technician, as mishandling freon can be dangerous and result in serious injury or damage to the environment.

The Grand Dunman Team
https://thegranddunman.sg/

[trader_4]

Why you revived a 3 year old thread, IDK, but I haven't seen a portable AC that has a
charging port. Small, cheap appliances like this, they are permanently sealed at the
factory and field charging requires adding a piercing valve. And fixing the leak if it's
going to last. That's why it's rarely done, you can get a new AC for $125. Plus if it's
an old crappy one you'll be saving money on running it.