1/2" Polybutylene Pipe
Bob Simon
they'd be willing to send me? I'll be glad to pay for postage and for
your trouble.
Bob Simon
New Orleans
--
Please address private replies to bsimon at ATT dot net.
Gary Slusser
"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
> Has anyone got a 20" length of 1/2" ID 5/8" OD polybutylene pipe
> they'd be willing to send me? I'll be glad to pay for postage and for
> your trouble.
>
> Bob Simon
PEX is better and has the same OD but just a little bit smaller ID. I
don't think I'd use a piece of PB that's been laying around for years,
especially if you need it for a pressure line.
Gary
Quality Water
Bob Simon
wrote:
Maybe I need some other kind of compression fitting ?. The union I
got at Lowes has an insert that won't fit into a piece of yellow gas
line that I presume is the PEX you mentioned. Since the rest of the
low pressure line is PB, I thought I'd match what's in the ground.
Gary Slusser
"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
> "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
> >> Has anyone got a 20" length of 1/2" ID 5/8" OD polybutylene pipe
> >> they'd be willing to send me? I'll be glad to pay for postage and
for
> >> your trouble.
> >>
> >> Bob Simon
> >
> >PEX is better and has the same OD but just a little bit smaller ID. I
> >don't think I'd use a piece of PB that's been laying around for
years,
> >especially if you need it for a pressure line.
> Maybe I need some other kind of compression fitting ?. The union I
> got at Lowes has an insert that won't fit into a piece of yellow gas
> line that I presume is the PEX you mentioned. Since the rest of the
> low pressure line is PB, I thought I'd match what's in the ground.
The PB I'm familiar with is used for water line and is a gray color. PEX
is used for water lines and comes in red, clear, white and blue (maybe
one or two more by now). If you have some type of gas line I can't help.
PEX, CPVC, galvanized, copper and PB of the same OD or not, can be
coupled with QEST (dark gray plastic) compression fittings including SS
lock ring and ferrule. That's compression, not crimped. They are not PVC
compression fittings or any with any thing that has to go into the
tubing.
Gary
Quality Water
Mikie
and since PolyButylene &/or fittings deteriorate so quickly.... copper was
the item most codes recommended in all repairs.
"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote in message
news:e9gbftojop1aam1f0...@4ax.com...
: Has anyone got a 20" length of 1/2" ID 5/8" OD polybutylene pipe
Gary Slusser
"Mikie" <ugo_b...@hotmail.com> wrote
> 1/2 " copper is .622 od 5/8 = .625
> and since PolyButylene &/or fittings deteriorate so quickly.... copper
was
> the item most codes recommended in all repairs.
The actual OD would only be important if he were going to use crimped
fittings. And they used to make them in brass.
Bob Simon
wrote:
>1/2 " copper is .622 od 5/8 = .625
>and since PolyButylene &/or fittings deteriorate so quickly.... copper was
>the item most codes recommended in all repairs.
I thought since copper is soft it wouldn't be appropriate for buried
low pressure gas line. What do you think?
I don't see any deterioration in the polybutylene, except for where I
nicked, bruised and ultimately severed it with my shovel digging up a
plant.
Gary Slusser
"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
> "Mikie" <ugo_b...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >1/2 " copper is .622 od 5/8 = .625
> >and since PolyButylene &/or fittings deteriorate so quickly....
copper was
> >the item most codes recommended in all repairs.
>
> I thought since copper is soft it wouldn't be appropriate for buried
> low pressure gas line. What do you think?
>
> I don't see any deterioration in the polybutylene, except for where I
> nicked, bruised and ultimately severed it with my shovel digging up a
> plant.
Bob, you hadn't told us what the tubing was used for until now. Naked
copper can have a problem with concrete and soil. Personally I would get
the type of tubing used for gas, and might question using compression
fittings for a gas line.
Gary
Quality Water
> >
> >"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
Bob Simon
wrote:
>Bob, you hadn't told us what the tubing was used for until now. Naked
>copper can have a problem with concrete and soil. Personally I would get
>the type of tubing used for gas, and might question using compression
>fittings for a gas line.
Gary, please accept my apologies for wasting your time with an
incomplete statement of the problem and allow me to start all over.
While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and told
me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
"PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
4/30/76"
Although I cannot find any of this, I was able to obtain a piece of:
"PLEXCO YELLOWPIPE 1/2" CTS .090 SDR 7 -- == PE 2406 CEC ASTM 02513
... GAS USE ONLY"
According to my measurements, the ID of the original pipe is 15/32 but
the ID of the piece I want to splice in is 13/32". I already have
some brass compression unions and while the inserts fit nicely into
the original gray tubing, they will not fit into the yellowpipe. How
do I make a leak-free joint?
I have also obtained a piece of:
"... 3P QEST C PB2110 ASTM D-3309 UPC SDR 11 180* 100 PSI
B137.8 IAPMO IS 22-81 1/2" CTS X 5/8" OD .062 ..."
This tubing has the same ID and OD as the original tubing I damaged so
I can use the compression unions I have on hand. Is there any reason
not to splice it in for a low pressure buried gas line?
Gary Slusser
"Bob Simon" <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net> wrote
> "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net>
> wrote:
> >Bob, you hadn't told us what the tubing was used for until now. Naked
> >copper can have a problem with concrete and soil. Personally I would
get
> >the type of tubing used for gas, and might question using compression
> >fittings for a gas line.
>
> Gary, please accept my apologies for wasting your time with an
> incomplete statement of the problem and allow me to start all over.
No problem.
> While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
> my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and told
> me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
> "PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
> 4/30/76"
>
> Although I cannot find any of this, I was able to obtain a piece of:
> "PLEXCO YELLOWPIPE 1/2" CTS .090 SDR 7 -- == PE 2406 CEC ASTM 02513
> ... GAS USE ONLY"
>
> According to my measurements, the ID of the original pipe is 15/32 but
> the ID of the piece I want to splice in is 13/32". I already have
> some brass compression unions and while the inserts fit nicely into
> the original gray tubing, they will not fit into the yellowpipe. How
> do I make a leak-free joint?
>
> I have also obtained a piece of:
> "... 3P QEST C PB2110 ASTM D-3309 UPC SDR 11 180* 100 PSI
> B137.8 IAPMO IS 22-81 1/2" CTS X 5/8" OD .062 ..."
> This tubing has the same ID and OD as the original tubing I damaged so
> I can use the compression unions I have on hand. Is there any reason
> not to splice it in for a low pressure buried gas line?
Bob, I don't do gas so I can't answer the question other than to say you
should pose the question to a plumbing supply house. Or gas company,
they may give you a piece. The QEST maybe PB. Using the brass
compression fittings (not crimped) might require you to use an insert
inside the tubing to provide a non collapsible tubing end. If it were me
I'd replace the whole line with plastic made for gas, and put it into a
piece of poly or PVC as a conduit. Especially where it might be cut
again. It can't be buried too far if you cut it digging up a plant.
Plant being of the posies type and not bush or tree...
Bob Simon
wrote:
I have those inserts and they fit perfectly in both the old and Qest
pipes.
>If it were me
>I'd replace the whole line with plastic made for gas, and put it into a
>piece of poly or PVC as a conduit. Especially where it might be cut
>again. It can't be buried too far if you cut it digging up a plant.
>Plant being of the posies type and not bush or tree...
This would require far more trenching than I'm willing to do. I'll
just have to lay the pipe deeper where my wife wants to have a flower
bed. Do you think 12" is ok?
By the way, it was a banana, actually. I pried out a 60# ? ball of
root and dirt and broke one shovel in the process.
Gary Slusser
> "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net> wrote:
> >Bob, I don't do gas so I can't answer the question other than to say
you
> >should pose the question to a plumbing supply house. Or gas company,
> >they may give you a piece. The QEST maybe PB. Using the brass
> >compression fittings (not crimped) might require you to use an insert
> >inside the tubing to provide a non collapsible tubing end.
>
> I have those inserts and they fit perfectly in both the old and Qest
> pipes.
>
> >If it were me
> >I'd replace the whole line with plastic made for gas, and put it into
a
> >piece of poly or PVC as a conduit. Especially where it might be cut
> >again. It can't be buried too far if you cut it digging up a plant.
> >Plant being of the posies type and not bush or tree...
>
> This would require far more trenching than I'm willing to do. I'll
> just have to lay the pipe deeper where my wife wants to have a flower
> bed. Do you think 12" is ok?
Then maybe I'd try it and check for leaks with solution for a week or so
before I buried it again
> By the way, it was a banana, actually. I pried out a 60# ? ball of
> root and dirt and broke one shovel in the process.
And you aren't done yet... I like rock gardens best. With round edges so
I don't have to downshift the tractor to mow.
oldand...@aol.com
like it's a water line with high pressure....if it leaks, you'll smell
it way before any bad thing will happen. Find something to give a
tight fit and go for it.
On Sat, 12 May 2001 22:28:49 GMT, "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net>
wrote:
>
basil...@zotnet.net
wrote:
>While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
>my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and told
>me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
>"PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
>4/30/76"
The pipe is 1/2" copper tubing size (which means it is 5/8" outside
diameter) with walls 0.062" thick (~1/16"). This wall thickness makes
the inside diameter about equal to one half inch (0.625-(2x0.062)=
0.501"). It is PVC pipe not polybutylene and was made in 1976. As far
as I know, PVC is no longer legal for use with natural gas. Therefore,
I recommend that you replace the entire line with a material
appropriate for the service buried in accord with the local code.
>Although I cannot find any of this, I was able to obtain a piece of:
>"PLEXCO YELLOWPIPE 1/2" CTS .090 SDR 7 -- == PE 2406 CEC ASTM 02513
>... GAS USE ONLY"
The yellow pipe is also 1/2" copper tube size (again 5/8" O.D.) but
the wall thickness is greater (0.090") meaning the inside diameter is
smaller (0.625-(2x0.090)=0.445"). This is why the ferrules will not
fit. You should be able to purchase compression fittings for this
material from a local plumbing supplier. I do not recommend that you
splice this material as that may not be in accord with the code in
your area.
>
>According to my measurements, the ID of the original pipe is 15/32 but
>the ID of the piece I want to splice in is 13/32". I already have
>some brass compression unions and while the inserts fit nicely into
>the original gray tubing, they will not fit into the yellowpipe. How
>do I make a leak-free joint?
Replace the entire length of tubing from the point of connection to
the gas main with material that meets the current building code for
your area. Bury it at the correct depth for your area.
Gary Slusser
<basil...@zotnet.net> wrote
> On Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:40 GMT, Bob Simon <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> >While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
> >my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and
told
> >me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
> >"PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
> >4/30/76"
> The pipe is 1/2" copper tubing size (which means it is 5/8" outside
> diameter) with walls 0.062" thick (~1/16"). This wall thickness makes
> the inside diameter about equal to one half inch (0.625-(2x0.062)=
> 0.501"). It is PVC pipe not polybutylene and was made in 1976. As far
> as I know, PVC is no longer legal for use with natural gas. Therefore,
> I recommend that you replace the entire line with a material
> appropriate for the service buried in accord with the local code.
Now that I understand, see below..... IMO, 1/2" PB or PVC being 1/2"
CTS, should mate just fine. As would 1/2 copper or CPVC. I have a
partial roll of both 1/2" and 3/4" PB and although I wouldn't use it but
in a temporary emergency fix, I don't want to give any away for gas line
use. PVC or PE or copper and CPVC makes no difference in coupling them
with QEST compression fittings; ferrule, lock ring and nut. I wouldn't
do it for gas though, especially when buried.
> >Although I cannot find any of this, I was able to obtain a piece of:
> >"PLEXCO YELLOWPIPE 1/2" CTS .090 SDR 7 -- == PE 2406 CEC ASTM 02513
> >... GAS USE ONLY"
> The yellow pipe is also 1/2" copper tube size (again 5/8" O.D.) but
> the wall thickness is greater (0.090") meaning the inside diameter is
> smaller (0.625-(2x0.090)=0.445"). This is why the ferrules will not
> fit. You should be able to purchase compression fittings for this
> material from a local plumbing supplier. I do not recommend that you
> splice this material as that may not be in accord with the code in
> your area.
A.... if it's 5/8" OD (CTS) why don't the ferrules fit? They have
nothing to do with the ID, they go over the tubing. There is PE tubing
made in iron pipe size called 1/2" but has a 5/8" ID and corresponding
larger OD. I see they call it PLEXCO YELLOW "PIPE" above. And now that
I've looked..... lol (I only now paid attention) the other is called
PLEXCO GAS "TUBING". IMO, that's why his ferrules don't fit; he's mixing
tubing and pipe sized tubing and the OD of pipe is larger OD than
tubing.
> >According to my measurements, the ID of the original pipe is 15/32
but
> >the ID of the piece I want to splice in is 13/32". I already have
> >some brass compression unions and while the inserts fit nicely into
> >the original gray tubing, they will not fit into the yellowpipe. How
> >do I make a leak-free joint?
>
> Replace the entire length of tubing from the point of connection to
> the gas main with material that meets the current building code for
> your area. Bury it at the correct depth for your area.
I would.
Gary
Quality Water
Sylvan Butler
> like it's a water line with high pressure....if it leaks, you'll smell
> it way before any bad thing will happen. Find something to give a
Not true.
My parents had a small area that wouldn't grow grass for 20-some years.
Last fall a guy from the gas company came looking, trying to track down
system losses. He saw the dead spot, put down some equipment, covered
the spot and later verified the presence of gas. The leak was too slow
to smell, but it kept the grass dead. Luckily it was on the gas company
side of the meter.
It was a bad weld when they installed the gas line sometime in the 60's.
You should have seen the fix... He heated up the pipe upstream of the
leak and squeezed it shut with pliers. Then ground out the old weld and
redid it. Then reheated the "pinch" and forced it open with the pliers.
Finally, wrapped the whole area with protective tape and he was done.
That's not the job for me!
sdb
--
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***
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User should be sylvandb1 and host is at bigfoot.com
Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Bob Simon
wrote:
>
The fittings I bought have an insert and a ring (ferrule) which
together form a seal with the tubing when squeezed between the body of
the fitting and the cap. The OD of all the tubing I have is 5/8 and
the ring fits over each of them. The insert fits perfectly inside the
tubing with .062" wall thickness but will not fit into the tubing with
.09 walls.
>There is PE tubing
>made in iron pipe size called 1/2" but has a 5/8" ID and corresponding
>larger OD. I see they call it PLEXCO YELLOW "PIPE" above. And now that
>I've looked..... lol (I only now paid attention) the other is called
>PLEXCO GAS "TUBING". IMO, that's why his ferrules don't fit; he's mixing
>tubing and pipe sized tubing and the OD of pipe is larger OD than
>tubing.
>
>> >According to my measurements, the ID of the original pipe is 15/32
>but
>> >the ID of the piece I want to splice in is 13/32". I already have
>> >some brass compression unions and while the inserts fit nicely into
>> >the original gray tubing, they will not fit into the yellowpipe. How
>> >do I make a leak-free joint?
>>
>> Replace the entire length of tubing from the point of connection to
>> the gas main with material that meets the current building code for
>> your area. Bury it at the correct depth for your area.
>
>I would.
>
>Gary
>Quality Water
>
Bob Simon
>On Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:40 GMT, Bob Simon <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
>>my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and told
>>me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
>>"PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
>>4/30/76"
>The pipe is 1/2" copper tubing size (which means it is 5/8" outside
>diameter) with walls 0.062" thick (~1/16"). This wall thickness makes
>the inside diameter about equal to one half inch (0.625-(2x0.062)=
>0.501"). It is PVC pipe not polybutylene and was made in 1976.
I thought so. Since they look so similar I can see how a casual
glance could confuse someone.
>As far as I know, PVC is no longer legal for use with natural gas.
Do you happen to know why?
basil...@zotnet.net
wrote:
>On Sat, 12 May 2001 22:02:49 -0700, basil...@zotnet.net wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:40 GMT, Bob Simon <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>While digging up a plant, I severed the buried gas line that supplies
>>>my gas grill. A plumber looked at a piece of the gray tubing and told
>>>me that the line is polybutylene, but it is labeled as follows:
>>>"PLEXCO GAS TUBING 1/2" CTS X .062" PVC 2110 ASTM D-2513-71 V102K1 21
>>>4/30/76"
>>The pipe is 1/2" copper tubing size (which means it is 5/8" outside
>>diameter) with walls 0.062" thick (~1/16"). This wall thickness makes
>>the inside diameter about equal to one half inch (0.625-(2x0.062)=
>>0.501"). It is PVC pipe not polybutylene and was made in 1976.
>I thought so. Since they look so similar I can see how a casual
>glance could confuse someone.
>
>>As far as I know, PVC is no longer legal for use with natural gas.
>Do you happen to know why?
I do not know exactly, though I suspect it may have had something to
do with brittle pipe failures and the difficulty of making a reliable
metal to plastic joint. The pipe above ground must be metallic in most
areas. There are special plastic to metal transition fittings made
that work fairly well. However, they are very expensive.
In the past, manufactured gas was fairly common. You blow steam over
hot coke and you get a gas that was at one time in fairly common use.
It was corrosive to copper pipe (people used to use tin lined pipe for
the purpose.) Also, brass pipe was commonly seen. One still sees it in
older homes. Natural gas, once it has been cleaned of its impurities
and heavy oil fractions, is not nearly as corrosive. Hence the common
use of steel pipe. Some people call it black iron pipe. Though the
fittings are commonly cast or malleable iron the pipe is and has been
steel for many years.
basil...@zotnet.net
wrote:
>
><basil...@zotnet.net> wrote
>> On Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:40 GMT, Bob Simon <bsi...@REMOVE.att.net>
>> wrote:
>A.... if it's 5/8" OD (CTS) why don't the ferrules fit? They have
>nothing to do with the ID, they go over the tubing.
Sorry, should have typed insert instead of ferrule. Certainly an
insert designed for 0.501 would not fit into 0.445 tube without
forcing it and then the ferrule would likely not fit over the tubing
and insert combination.
Perhaps, the "gas only" tube is smaller ID just to prevent the use of
standard plumbing fittings. It sure can't be for the pressure.
Everett M. Greene
> [snip]
> This would require far more trenching than I'm willing to do. I'll
> just have to lay the pipe deeper where my wife wants to have a flower
> bed. Do you think 12" is ok?
Wouldn't it be easier to replace the wife?
TinMan1332
This always "looks easy" from the outside... but it's much, much more work and
the expenses grow faster than weeds.
After going through the "replace the wife" route three times, I can assure you
that you can hire a professional to do a complete replacement of the gas line
and have a landscape contractor design and install the flower bed... all at
penies on the dollar vs "wife replacement." <G>