Beer cans at home construction sites
James
I live in a fairly new subdivision where there is considerable new
construction going on in the next phase area of the subdivision. My wife
and I love to check out the new homes as they are being built. Its a great
place to get ideas and see what new floorplans that are being used. Anyway,
it amazes me that there has not been a home yet in over a year that has not
been littered with beer cans. So I am asking of the professionals out
there, is it so common to have contractors/subcontractors drinking on the
job site? I haven't actually seen anyone consuming so I guess I am making
the assumption that it is the people working on the projects. But I did
actually find a 12 pack with 3 still cold cans nestled up against a house
today at which the landscaping contractors were laying sod and flooring was
being laid inside.
Thanks
James
Randy Hubbard
end of the day... I am aware however that some subs also drink on the job as
opposed to at the end of the day. Constant drinking on the job is a sure
sign of a more serious problem and is generally reflected in the
workmanship, or great lack there of in the job.
Randy
James wrote in message <7eel1q$dvr$1...@news.cyberhighway.net>...
Max
As our house was being built 2 years ago, I hand-delivered the beer to them!!
Nothing better than a happy crew! (I delivered at end of day!!) Also passed
around a few boxes of donuts in the mornings! Got alot of changes made without
going thru the builder too!
C. Brunner
wrote:
>Hi!
>I live in a fairly new subdivision where there is considerable new
>construction going on in the next phase area of the subdivision. My wife
>and I love to check out the new homes as they are being built. Its a great
>place to get ideas and see what new floorplans that are being used. Anyway,
>it amazes me that there has not been a home yet in over a year that has not
>been littered with beer cans. So I am asking of the professionals out
>there, is it so common to have contractors/subcontractors drinking on the
I don't know if the crews that built our house drank beer on the job.
I do believe they drank beer on the way to the job, on the way home
from the job, and during lunch and break periods. At first, they
seemed to be collecting all the cans and bottles and taking them away
(they left all their other personal trash at the jobsite). As weeks
went by, they started "hiding" 6-packs of empties deep in piles of
rubbish. Finally, they just left them wherever they were when the can
or bottle was empty.
Actually, it wasn't the beer that bothered me as much as the ziplock
baggies and rolling papers the framers pulled out of their van when
their foreman left the site to run an errand....
And to think that state law requires my employer to maintain a drug-
and alcohol-free workplace, and mostly all I do is push a pencil (or
the keys on my keyboard). Keep your liability/builder's risk
insurance up-to-date.
C. Brunner
(Address contains a spamblock: "NOT")
Sean Smith
bru...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu says...
>On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:57:17 -0600, "James" <jam...@cyberhighway.net>
>wrote:
>>Hi!
>>I live in a fairly new subdivision where there is considerable new
>>construction going on in the next phase area of the subdivision. My wife
>>and I love to check out the new homes as they are being built. Its a great
>>place to get ideas and see what new floorplans that are being used. Anyway,
>>it amazes me that there has not been a home yet in over a year that has not
>>been littered with beer cans. So I am asking of the professionals out
>>there, is it so common to have contractors/subcontractors drinking on the
>>job site?...
>I don't know if the crews that built our house drank beer on the job.
>I do believe they drank beer on the way to the job, on the way home
>from the job, and during lunch and break periods. At first, they
>seemed to be collecting all the cans and bottles and taking them away
>(they left all their other personal trash at the jobsite). As weeks
>went by, they started "hiding" 6-packs of empties deep in piles of
>rubbish. Finally, they just left them wherever they were when the can
>or bottle was empty.
>Actually, it wasn't the beer that bothered me as much as the ziplock
>baggies and rolling papers the framers pulled out of their van when
>their foreman left the site to run an errand....
Personally I would be more worried about the beer. Alcohol has been
proven to be much more dangerous a drug to be under the influence of. This is
comparing it to the green stuff in those baggies.
>And to think that state law requires my employer to maintain a drug-
>and alcohol-free workplace, and mostly all I do is push a pencil (or
>the keys on my keyboard). Keep your liability/builder's risk
>insurance up-to-date.
>C. Brunner
>(Address contains a spamblock: "NOT")
State law usually requires NOTHING of the employer. This is normally
a company policy for insurance and "morality" reasons. Then again, I don't
believe that persons should come to work drunk or high, save that for when work
is done. What you do on your off time is not anyone elses business, which is
why I don't support drug testing for employment. Doing something where it
affects others I don't like but doing something in the privacy of your own home
should be restricted by no law.
Sean
Mark
every Friday after I got out of work. They looked forward to seeing me pull
up and everyone would stop work right there! Fine by me! Keep those builders
happy!
The house was only 30 days off schedule which isn't bad. I got quite a few
extras for free just by talking to the guys on the site. Well, not free...2
cases a week for almost 4 months.....close enough!
On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:06:57 -0400, Max <Postm...@aol.com> wrote:
>Are you kidding?
>
>As our house was being built 2 years ago, I hand-delivered the beer to them!!
>Nothing better than a happy crew! (I delivered at end of day!!) Also passed
>around a few boxes of donuts in the mornings! Got alot of changes made without
>going thru the builder too!
>
>James wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I live in a fairly new subdivision where there is considerable new
>> construction going on in the next phase area of the subdivision. My wife
>> and I love to check out the new homes as they are being built. Its a great
>> place to get ideas and see what new floorplans that are being used. Anyway,
>> it amazes me that there has not been a home yet in over a year that has not
>> been littered with beer cans. So I am asking of the professionals out
>> there, is it so common to have contractors/subcontractors drinking on the
TinMan1332
>proven to be much more dangerous a drug to be under the influence of. This
>is
>comparing it to the green stuff in those baggies.
As an employer, I worry about anything that would influence a worker or sub.
Even over the counter cold medicines can cause serious impairment doing certain
tasks.
> State law usually requires NOTHING of the employer. This is normally
>a company policy for insurance and "morality" reasons.
> State law usually requires NOTHING of the employer. This is normally
>a company policy for insurance and "morality" reasons. Then again, I don't
>believe that persons should come to work drunk or high,
Drug testing and declaration of a Drug Free Workplace is indeed to cash-in on
substantial savings in workmens Comp insurance. Other reasons for doing such
are few and far inbetween with exceptions of certain occupations that have drug
& alcohol problems (Post office, railroads, large trucking firms, ect., etc.).
>save that for when work
>is done. What you do on your off time is not anyone elses business, which is
>
>why I don't support drug testing for employment. Doing something where it
>affects others I don't like but doing something in the privacy of your own
>home
>should be restricted by no law.
Spoken like a true Clinton Democrat! So it's ok to get drunk every night at
home and then be shakey working on scaffolding the next day at work? Or do
cocaine all night before driving the morning commuter train? Controled
substances are controlled and illegal for a reason... alcohol, while readily
available, is also a big problem. The amount of "down time" from workers who
abuse alcohol & drugs is significant compared to those who don't. The money
spent on these items robs a family of more productive uses for the same dollar
and the time wasted in a stupor in astounding.
So, do what you want at home... but if I find out you booze it up everynight or
use drugs (even at home); you will be discharged or not rehired as a sub. No
one opens a can of beer on my jobs... it's a standing rule no matter what the
time of day.
J.P.
FNO Toolman
>baggies and rolling papers the framers pulled out of their van when
>their foreman left the site to run an errand....
I remember a story another contractor told me about one of his crews.
He had a feeling a little "puffing" was going on during the day when he
wasn't around but his crew always denied it. Well one day after lunch he
confronted his crew with the same results. He gave them all a little evil
eye and went on with his inspection of their work. When he got to the
upstairs master bedroom he was looking at the bathroom and something
caught his eye. He said that sitting on the sole plate was a beer can that
would normally not draw his attention at all, but this one was smoking!
Stuck out like a sore thumb. Upon further inspection he found that it had
been used as a pipe and it was still emitting left over smoke. Well when
it was brought to the crews attention, the only thing that was said was
"if I find another smoking beer can, your all fired!" The crew about sh*t
fearing for their jobs but this guy was fairly open minded and let them go
with the warning as other than that, they really were a good crew. From
that point forward it was always referred to as the "smoking beer can
syndrome".
I never let my crews "puff" on the job, and they all knew I would have
fired them on the spot, but a few beers after work helps the crew bond. I
even picked up a case of beer a few times to share with the last crew I
visited on a given day. It is amazing how much better people will respond
to a boss when the boss becomes a person rather than an authority figure.
I always tried to get on a personal level with my crews, and a few beers
shared over an after work gripe session opened up the communication
levels, and I think we all profited from it. I don't condone drinking on
the job, or driving while intoxicated, but a few beers after work, what
the heck! I did however make the rule that no beer cans were to be left on
the job site, and if I found them during the day, the same rule that
applied to "puffing" would be inforced. I never did see a "smoking beer
can" but the term has always stuck in my mind!
As for a contractor approving beer cans and such laying around the job
site, they definitely don't have very much respect for their company's
image. I always made my crews do a quick cleanup of the site every night
before leaving. This involved putting all scrap lumber in tidy piles,
removing any garbage, and all unused materials were to be stacked back in
piles to help avoid theft problems during the night. I always felt that a
tidy job site was much more pleasurable to work in, and in turn reflected
the image that I wanted my houses to have. There is nothing wrong with a
few beers after the days work, but it is wrong to reflect an image of
drunken workmanship and sloppy work habits.
FNO Toolman
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Charlie Bress
corner.
Lots of excuses, lack of integrity, sobriety and responsibility abounds.
Contractors and supers justify it as good for morale or okay after work.
Paul Lepper
( I belive this is leagle) Some of the cans could be from kids or from
tresspassers like yourself. I'm sure the contractors are more concerned with
unauthorized persons stumbling around the job site,getting hurt and suing
than if a worker has a beer after work.
Paul
ex contractor but still drinking beer
James <jam...@cyberhighway.net> wrote in message
news:7eel1q$dvr$1...@news.cyberhighway.net...
Westport Pools, Inc.
> Now you know why you will not find a level floor, a plumb wall, or a
square
> corner.
> Lots of excuses, lack of integrity, sobriety and responsibility abounds.
> Contractors and supers justify it as good for morale or okay after work.
Not to mention people going with the low bid and then bitching about the
quality of work they get. Saving 10 grand and having nothing square, plumb
or level isn't much of a savings is it?
Westport Pools, Inc.
out who does their flatwork. Swimming pool flatwork (when done correctly)
is somewhere between an art and old world craftsmanship. If you're in St.
Louis, I can set you up with an artist.
Steve
Sean Smith
says...
>>save that for when work
>>is done. What you do on your off time is not anyone elses business, which is
>>why I don't support drug testing for employment. Doing something where it
>>affects others I don't like but doing something in the privacy of your own
>>home
>>should be restricted by no law.
>Spoken like a true Clinton Democrat! So it's ok to get drunk every night at
Clinton? Yea, right. Libertarian more like it.
>home and then be shakey working on scaffolding the next day at work? Or do
>cocaine all night before driving the morning commuter train? Controled
>substances are controlled and illegal for a reason... alcohol, while readily
>available, is also a big problem. The amount of "down time" from workers who
>abuse alcohol & drugs is significant compared to those who don't. The money
>spent on these items robs a family of more productive uses for the same dollar
>and the time wasted in a stupor in astounding.
There's a big difference between use and abuse. You're talking about
abuse. I'm also talking about shifting responsibility back to the induhvidual.
Seems nobody is responsible for thier actions any more. You abuse something,
you pay the price. It's your fault and there should be no government
intervention or other litigation, etc, trying to pin the blame elsewhere. You
did it, you made the choice, you screwed up, it's your fault, you take the fall
for it.
>So, do what you want at home... but if I find out you booze it up everynight o
>use drugs (even at home); you will be discharged or not rehired as a sub. No
>one opens a can of beer on my jobs... it's a standing rule no matter what the
>time of day.
>J.P.
Then according to your policy that everyone who drinks or uses
"other" substances is an abuser, you should fire every one of your workers
right now. I bet you that probably every one of them goes home and either has
a beer or wine or other booze or lights up a doob in the privacy of thier own
home, not affecting anyone else or thier work performance but according to you,
they need to be fired. Wake up and smell the sawdust, you can't treat people
like children forever.
Sean
John P Reber
lunch.
Mostly carpenters, painters, bricklayers, etc...yeah right, they're there
for the food...
It's what convinced me that I can do most repairs myself...
----- Original Message -----
Charlie Bress <cbr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:370C0852...@earthlink.net...
Westport Pools, Inc.
> lunch.
>
> Mostly carpenters, painters, bricklayers, etc...yeah right, they're there
> for the food...
>
> It's what convinced me that I can do most repairs myself...
You're kind of paintng with a broad brush aren't you? When we go to the
"local watering holes" for lunch, there are 2 guys in ties for every 1 guy
with a tool belt drinking alcohol at lunch time.
I live in a suburb of St. Louis and work on the inside for a construction
company. I have plenty of opportunities to visit construction sites and see
plenty of beer cans at them. However, I have never seen anyone drinking at
a job site during working hours -- it's always after 3 or 3:30 when they get
off. Granted, we deal with homes in the top 10% price range and the
contractors are probably more careful of their guys drinking on job sites;
but, I've seen plenty of crappy work. It's caused by someone (super or
manager) wanting to save a buck here and there or a just plain lazy worker.
Steve
Randy Hubbard
Not too many people I meet these days enjoy their job or look forward to
producing anything of value. Most folks work *exclusively* for a paycheck.
It reflects in their work...
The few people who actually care about quality and workmanship usually end
up working for the better contractors or themselves. Most of these folks can
see the "big picture" and know better than to drink on the job or leave
trash strewn about the site. These people actual CARE what other people
think of their workmanship and demeanor. The vast majority of people however
be they blue collar or white, only "put in their time" to get the money. The
less they have to do the better they like it. And to think they go thru
their entire life in this mindset. How sad.
Randy
Westport Pools, Inc. wrote in message <370cd...@news.primary.net>...
FNO Toolman
how many of your white collar friends are having cocktails with their
lunch. Oh yah, I guess if it is not in a tavern, and comes with an olive,
it's acceptable??? You guys are all a bunch of hypocrites.
FNO Toolman
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John P Reber wrote in message <7eigd1$lps$1...@elmo.tju.edu>...
>Have you ever looked at the cars parked at the local watering holes
during
>lunch.
>
>Mostly carpenters, painters, bricklayers, etc...yeah right, they're there
>for the food...
>
>It's what convinced me that I can do most repairs myself...
>
FNO Toolman
into the equation!!!
FNO Toolman
--
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PLUS Loads Of Great Family Fun! Check Us Out...
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>It's all about personal values and beliefs...
Westport Pools, Inc.
> And, as to "users" of alcohol or drugs needing to be responsible for
> their own actions (i.e., they should "take the fall for it")--
> That's a great philosophy, and I endorse it completely. But, what do
> I, as a homeowner, do when the fall they take is from a ladder while
> painting my living room ceiling? Do you really suppose somebody who
> breaks a leg that way is going to brush himself off and say, "Oh
> --ell, it was my own fault for trying to paint this ceiling after
> consuming three beers during lunch"? Right. More likely he isn't
> insured, and MY homeowner's liability insurance has to pay for his
> repairs.
> C. Brunner
> (Address contains a spamblock: "NOT")
Now you know why you should always check on someone's Workman's Comp and
liability insurance before you contract with them...
Sean Smith
bru...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu says...
>On 8 Apr 1999 14:41:29 GMT, sean...@racemark.com (Sean Smith) wrote:
>[snip]
>> There's a big difference between use and abuse. You're talking about
>>abuse. I'm also talking about shifting responsibility back to the induhvidua
>>you pay the price. It's your fault and there should be no government
>>intervention or other litigation, etc, trying to pin the blame elsewhere. Yo
>The person who posted the original question wasn't concerned about
>people drinking alcohol in their own homes. He/she was worried about
>construction crews drinking alcohol in HIS home. There's a big
>difference.
If you are following the thread, someone here said they would fire
anyone who was found to be drinking or drugging after hours. I understand that
the original said about the factors in the home while it is being built.
>And, as to "users" of alcohol or drugs needing to be responsible for
>their own actions (i.e., they should "take the fall for it")--
>That's a great philosophy, and I endorse it completely. But, what do
>I, as a homeowner, do when the fall they take is from a ladder while
>painting my living room ceiling? Do you really suppose somebody who
>breaks a leg that way is going to brush himself off and say, "Oh
>--ell, it was my own fault for trying to paint this ceiling after
>consuming three beers during lunch"? Right. More likely he isn't
>insured, and MY homeowner's liability insurance has to pay for his
>repairs.
>C. Brunner
That is why all contracters should be insured. If they are not
insured, then you don't hire them. Simple choice. Insurance=hire, no
insurance=no hire. Insurance company finds that person was drinking, person is
not covered, nor are you liable, person has to payout of own pocket and more
than likely has to find a new job. Simple course of action, too bad it never
works out that way.
Sean
Randy Hubbard
*problem* once again.
Randy
Sean Smith wrote in message <7eiubb$jc3$2...@Usenet.Logical.NET>...
SNIP
Mark Pirtle
the name and report the situation to them.
The Bakers
> The vast majority of people however
> be they blue collar or white, only "put in their time" to get the money. The
> less they have to do the better they like it. And to think they go thru
> their entire life in this mindset. How sad.
It may be sad to you, but it's a necessity to most folks. Why put forth the
effort when the downside is greater than the upside ? It ain't worth it.
Sign me.....
"Just Gettin By in NJ"
Randy Hubbard
something you dislike... This is a CHOICE for most people, not a dictate
from God! Most people chose a job based strictly on financial compensation
not on total emotional and financial satisfaction. Why do you think there is
so much stress in our lives???
Randy
The Bakers wrote in message <370D65B7...@worldnet.att.net>...
TinMan1332
>abuse. I'm also talking about shifting responsibility back to the
>
>you pay the price. It's your fault and there should be no government
>intervention or other litigation, etc, trying to pin the blame elsewhere.
>for it.
And if that screw up kills or maims another person in the course of your
"fall," what then?
>
> Then according to your policy that everyone who drinks or uses
>"other" substances is an abuser,
You twist my words to fit your conclusion and have made a "Composition
arguement fallacy."
>Wake up and smell the sawdust, you can't treat people
>like children forever.
If you want me to treat you like a responsible adult; act like one... and stop
tossing Red Herrings into the soup.
J.P.
TinMan1332
>anyone who was found to be drinking or drugging after hours.
You left out an important part... "to the point that is effects their; on the
job performance."
There is a big difference between going home and having a couple of beers and
going home and getting "stoned out of your gourd" or " wasted out of your
mind."
J.P.
Sean Smith
says...
>> There's a big difference between use and abuse. You're talking about
>>abuse. I'm also talking about shifting responsibility back to the
>>induhvidual.
>>Seems nobody is responsible for thier actions any more. You abuse something,
>>you pay the price. It's your fault and there should be no government
>>intervention or other litigation, etc, trying to pin the blame elsewhere.
>>You
>>did it, you made the choice, you screwed up, it's your fault, you take the
>>fall
>>for it.
>And if that screw up kills or maims another person in the course of your
>"fall," what then?
Then, DUH, that person is *RESPONSIBLE* for whatever happens. This is
something that needs serious work though. There are a lot of drunk drivers out
there who are repeat offenders, they've even killed people, but thy refuse to
take responsibility for thier actions, and they aren't forced to, so they do it
again, and again...
>> Then according to your policy that everyone who drinks or uses
>>"other" substances is an abuser,
>You twist my words to fit your conclusion and have made a "Composition
>arguement fallacy."
If you don't wish to have your words used in the context they were
written, don't write them that way.
>>Wake up and smell the sawdust, you can't treat people
>>like children forever.
>If you want me to treat you like a responsible adult; act like one... and stop
>tossing Red Herrings into the soup.
>J.P.
Red herrings? Not sure I know the phrase but I don't see where my
thoughts that a person should have the freedom to do with thier life and body
as they see fit, without persons such as yourself judging them poorly for thier
choices. You want a different path in life, as do I, but I do not believe that
anyone has the right to tell Joe Shmoe that he can't go out and have a few
beers, or whatever, after his work is completed. If you can't tell in thier
work performance, then you have no right to know or do anything about it.
If thier work is below par or below the quality that you wish to
portray, you speak with them about the matter, like adults, and go from there.
Now, don't go and say you said something else. You read what you wrote
and think about how other people are going to read that. You come across as
being very intolerant of what other people want to do with thier free time. I
never said I wanted you to treat me like a responsible adult since it seems you
cannot act like one yourself. I also do not see where I asked you to treat me
like an adult. I was painting with a much broader brush. PEOPLE cannot be
treated like children forever, no matter what you intolerant, governmentally
brainwashed, induhviduals think.
Sean
Dave Marulli
semblance of relevance to home repair has long since past. It's a great
discussion, worthy of many more iterations, but I think it's time to
take it to the e-mail realm or perhaps a more relevant newsgroup.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this issue.
Opera Buffa
>No.it's not common. The best thing to do is call contractor if you know
>the name and report the situation to them.
>
There's a 4-story condo going up next to my property. The workers
would toss their empty beer bottles into my unlandscaped side yard.
I took all the empty beer bottles and put them where the contractor
would see them. End of beer bottles thrown in my yard.
As for the rest of the construction trash that had drifted into my
yard, the contractor had a crew come thru and clean the yard
completely. I was amazed, since I had never said a word to him about
it.
Karen (Opera Buffa)
What I know about opera is laughable.
Send e-mail to hopi517 at aol (dot) com
Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance
there (at least around here anyways) by underage drinkers who like to
party at construction sites.
And now for a different beer can story!
My husband needed to get to pipes behind a wall in the stairwell of our
house. So he removed a piece of wallboard and there in the cavity,
where they had sat for 30+ years, were a couple of empty steel beer
cans! Maybe one of these days I'll put them up for auction on ebay.....
;-)
JP
Brent G.
the guy puking behind my house because had been drinking all day long in 100
degree heat. They even left cans of beer hidden in my bushes after they
left.
FYI
Turnkey
That will be a surprise for anyone following behind me. I have always buried
an empty in all of my projects.
turnkey
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idwim
are right, in the circumstances on which each respondent based their response.
But, why are we, as members of a supposedly enlightened and diverse society,
falling victim to the mindless practice of stereotyping all members of a group.
All carpenters are not cut from the same mold, just as all bankers, doctors,
factory workers, mechanic etc. are. There may be some similiarities between
carpenters, but they may also share those same similarities with the banker,
doctor, factory worker, and mechanic. People seem so ready to believe the worst
about others, but putting themselves in the same situation and having others
want to believe about them what they are so willing to believe about others
would be different. Isn't it always different when its me? What ever happened
to the Golden Rule?
Dave
construction site. They are the Porta-potties of choice in a lot of out of
the way places.
Dave Marulli
Back when my grandfather was a mason (1930's, etc) they used to use the
paper bags that mortar mix came in. He used to tell the story of the
time he fell off the scaffolding into a pile of debris and landed on bag
that squirted poop all over him. Pretty gross!
Bubba
>
> Don't ever open discarded sheetrock compound buckets found around
> construction site. They are the Porta-potties of choice in a lot of out of
> the way places.
Ewwww! How 'bout that? Precolored mud!
bubba
--
Zero Tolerance:
the politically correct term
for zero thought, zero common sense.
Arby
<turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > My husband needed to get to pipes behind a wall in the stairwell of our
> > house. So he removed a piece of wallboard and there in the cavity,
> > where they had sat for 30+ years, were a couple of empty steel beer
> > cans! Maybe one of these days I'll put them up for auction on ebay.....
> > ;-)
> >
> > JP
> >
> -
> That will be a surprise for anyone following behind me. I have always buried
> an empty in all of my projects.
>
> turnkey
Funny you mention that!! I was thinking of when I did the same about five
years ago, when reading the post from Brent G.
Arby
Ralph Taube
we bought it. In pulling out some of the old walls and flooring where
repairs were needed, we found ... quite a few empty "cure-all medicine"
bottles of various types (20% alcohol in many cases) from the local town
(loooong gone) pharmacy, dating from about 1820. Nobody that sick could
have built a house (well, maybe that accounts for the crooked walls). I
guess the tradition isn't so new.
Arby wrote in message ...
Hamm4fun
remodeling it he found wine bottles in the wall. Lots of wine bottles. He asked
around to find out who built the house and the carpenter( a known wino) was
still living.
