Weight of truck on concrete sidewalk
ransley
contractor wants to park a dump truck on my lawn and sidewalk which is
a few years old. The truck is medium size dual rear wheels with about
16-20 ft bed 5 ft high, I guess maybe 10 ton loaded but I dont know.
What do I need to have them put under the wheels to protect my
concrete and lawn, can I really protect the concrete from cracking. I
thought using 1" plywood cut in half so I would have 2" thick 4 foot
wide sheets under each wheel. Or must I have them park in the street.
jamesgangnc
Sadly plywood does not distribute the load very much. It's crap shoot
as to your sidewalk if you park something heavy on it. Depends on how
firm the ground is under it. Crossing the sidewalk is less risky than
leaving it sitting on it. Can't they get on the other side of it?
RonB
I would keep it off of the sidewalk. Experience speaking.
RonB
Frank
I'm not sure how to arrange this contract-wise, but contractor should be
held liable for damages if they occur.
Last year, I had some trees removed from a hilly area and contractor
brought in a mat to lay over the lawn in parts he had to bring a log
hauling tractor and lawn was left undamaged. It should be up to your
contractor to do something similar.
ransley
No the sidewalk is up to the building and the truck will be there all
day for days.
notbob
> Or must I have them park in the street.
Make the assholes park in the street. If they haven't set up their
operation to work from the street or are jes plain unwilling, find a
new contractor. Duh!
nb
ransley
It will be in writing they are liable, and I am thinking I am stupid
to agree to let them do it and I dont need the extra headache.
RicodJour
> On 2011-05-10, ransley <mark.ransle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Or must I have them park in the street.
>
> Make the assholes park in the street. If they haven't set up their
> operation to work from the street or are jes plain unwilling, find a
> new contractor. Duh!
Duh? Look at that duh again - there might be a mirror involved.
If the contractor backs the truck right up to the building and dumps
the stuff directly from the upper floors into the building it will be
easier and cheaper for him than having to rig up some chute, sidewalk
bridge or have to use more labor. In other words it would cost the OP
more.
And that's the deciding factor - cost and liability for damage, which
is also cost. Ask the demo guy to price it both ways, and then factor
in the price of replacing a couple or three squares of sidewalk and
fluffing up the lawn. Let the numbers do the talking.
R
harry
It depends on how wet the ground is. If dry, no problem at all. If wet
they only answer is a load of stone spread out or substanial steel
plates, maybe both.
For get bits of wood, they will be just mashed into the ground if wet.
As to the concrete in practice, there is absolutely nothing wil save
it if it's too thin to stand the weight, only bury it with stone, you
would need around 9" to make any difference at all.
A tractor as someone has mentioned has a much lower ground pressure.
The clue is to ask about the tyre pressures. If it is 80-100psi, you
have a problem. If it's 20-30 psi a lot less problem.
Worst case scenario is if truck digs in and gets stuck on your lawn
and needs to be towed out. Happens very easily with two axle trucks.
HeyBub
Don't know about loads and such, but around here contractors for city road
projects lay a honkin' big sheet of steel across holes in the street. I mean
it's like 1/2" thick. That would probably distribute the load quite well.
Evan
@Ransley:
Is the dump truck based on a pick-up chassis or is it a medium-duty
26,000 lb GVWR non-CDL/33,000 lb.+ GVWR CDL chassis ?
A pick-up truck would be fine on the sidewalk even fully loaded, but
a 33,000 lb + commercial vehicle might crack the sidewalk even with
plywood down...
The question you have to ask yourself is how have people moved in
to your apartment building in the past ? Have moving trucks the
same size as the contractor's dump truck been parked in the area
before ?
There is *nothing* you can do to save your lawn area, it will have to
be repaired after the work is done, either from parking on it to do
the
work required to rehab your building or from the people walking on it
to do the work/staging materials there during the work... Such is
just a casualty of the construction zone...
As for parking in the street, all that will do is add more time to job
at hand and potentially require some form of permit to block off an
area in the street to make loading the debris into the truck safer
and less of a risk to the public walking/driving by on the street...
Better to contain any debris or spills or 'oops i missed the truck'
moments on your land where you and your contractor can deal
with them and properly load the trucks for transit without being
blamed for any debris on the street or creating a hazardous
condition in the road if old nails or glass make it onto the road
near where you were loading...
Your job site could get shut down and you would be billed for
the expense of the street cleaning if the AHJ wanted to make
an issue out of something...
Good Luck with your reconstruction...
~~ Evan
Evan
@HeyBub:
Those steel plates used in roadway work are 1" thick or better and
are only allowed to be used where the span of the hole it is covering
is less than half the width of the plate and the plate is centered
over
the hole...
You need a serious size front end loader to move those things
around safely...
In this particular situation such a plate is not recommended because
they would represent a slipping hazard for foot traffic when wet and
this sort of project work will go months where the truck the OP is
worried about is being used as the dumpster for the contractor...
~~ Evan
RicodJour
>
> In this particular situation such a plate is not recommended because
> they would represent a slipping hazard for foot traffic when wet and
> this sort of project work will go months where the truck the OP is
> worried about is being used as the dumpster for the contractor...
Months to gut an apartment building? The OP is worried about a couple
of squares of sidewalk - I don't think the job is anywhere near the
size you're imagining. I'm guessing maybe six units and a week to gut
it. Who's holding the pool money? ;)
R
ransley
I believe they need to just reload it as they justy want to save money
in the demo.
ransley
I was thinking that they were full of bs
ransley
ransley
> On 2011-05-10, ransley <mark.ransle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Or must I have them park in the street.
>
> Make the assholes park in the street. If they haven't set up their
> operation to work from the street or are jes plain unwilling, find a
> new contractor. Duh!
>
> nb
Welll I already agreed to this guy
ransley
You are right, but the guy agreed to keep it off the lawn and he
didnt, it pisses me off even with a vebal on concrete replacement.
ransley
This is a city, Chicago Illinois, its totaly different from country or
a non code area. Hey Harry hoes the solar going, my family was from
Tisbury.
ransley
That would work real well, but a 1000lb sheet woud not be feasible in
several ways, or maybe its an idea, im learning a bit here.
ransley
Yes a simple job gets confusing.
ransley
Steel I dont see as an option. its to heavy
ransley
I think its a week to gut, but the driving up and off the lawn is
bs
aemeijers
Around here, for roll-off dumpsters, septic drive-overs, and similar
situations, they use one or more layers of Real Thick Plywood, like
almost an inch, designed for the job. I <think> it may be the same stuff
used for concrete forms where they don't need the surface to be too
pretty. Local dumpster rental buys them by the bundle. They lay out full
sheets- the idea is to spread the load. You want the point loads to be
near the center of the sheets. Back in stone age, I saw them use actual
cribbing timbers laid out and staked to keep them from spreading, like
the deck of a wooden bridge.
Like others have said, I wouldn't lose any sleep over a couple of
sidewalk squares. If they break, they break- it'll be lost in the noise
of the overall rehab costs. OP is gonna need a sidewalk-blocking permit
from the city anyway, in most cities. He should discuss it with them,
and what the protocol is for who repairs and who pays. I'd be more
worried about any shallow utility runs and meter and shutoff boxes and
such, as well as the curb and any storm sewer collectors that may get
collapsed or full of debris.
Most cities will be so tickled that the building is being rehabbed
rather than abandoned or pulled down, they will fall all over themselves
to be supportive.
--
aem sends...
Evan
Rico:
Not if the contractor is using the dump truck as a dumpster...
You can not store any sort of debris inside a partially occupied
building with dwelling units, it represents a fire hazard...
The contractor will be making MANY daily trips to empty
the truck at the waste dumping/recycling center during
the demolition phase of the project and at least once a
day thereafter to have a clean truck to fill with the next day's
trash...
It is a great way to avoid creating an attractive nuisance
on your property which could create liability if someone
decides to trespass in a dumpster looking for "treasure"
and got hurt -- it also totally eliminates the issue of
"anonymous donations" of trash which cost the
contractor/property owner more money to dispose of...
~~ Evan
harry
>
> - Show quoted text -
The PV technology is working good. The inverter is amazing, the stuff
it does. Dunno how it does it though.
It analyses a whole bunch of statistics that can be brought upon the
screen including graphical displays of hisorical performance and
instantaneous perameters.
Also brings up error codes. Looking in the book there are about a
hundred of them. Shit! A hundred possible things to go wrong!
It is 3.88kw.
On the best day so far it has done 29kwh but averages around 20kwh.
Should improve as Summer advances/day length increases. Worst day was
6.9kwh, heavy overcast.
I need to average 10kwh/day over a year to make to money forecast so
all is well so far.
It was a bunch of total wankers came to install it. They fucked up my
roof and had to repair it and wired up the array wrong twice before
they got it right.
I had to get up there myself and show them how to go on. Toe rags.
It was perfectly straightforward, any DIY man could do it.
I didn't half give their "manager" a bollocking.
I have issues with them over the earthing/grounding too.
There is nearly 700 volts chucking about up there.
We have changed our lifestyle. All electricity using activities now
revolve round the solar panel.
harry
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tisbury. That's about an hour and a halfs drive from my place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisbury,_Wiltshire
We when down there a couple of days ago, an old fart's bus trip to
Lacock nearby. Quite interesting.
This is one of the places where they filmed Harry Potter. (Inside of
"Hogwarts" I think.)
I think the entire USA Harry Potter fan club was touring about the
place. And getting ripped off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacock_Abbey
The inventor of the photographic negative camera lived there, There is
a small museum and the worlds first photographic negative picture/
picture site.
His camera was about the size of a fag packet.
Frank
Don't know what your payment options are but I would certainly hold back
enough funds to cover any damages until job is done and walk is undamaged.
Usually best around here to withhold all payments until job is complete.
Don Phillipson
news:774e750b-5cf2-4e3b...@d1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> contractor wants to park a dump truck on my lawn and sidewalk which is
> a few years old. The truck is medium size dual rear wheels with about
> 16-20 ft bed 5 ft high, I guess maybe 10 ton loaded but I dont know.
> What do I need to have them put under the wheels to protect my
> concrete and lawn
Because busy fighting a bush fire, we did not bother about
this when the water truck (est. 10 tons) parked right over the
septic tank tile bed. The tile bed worked OK for the next
dozen years we lived there, but the dip in the lawn lasted
all that time as well.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
notbob
> And that's the deciding factor - cost and liability for damage, which
> is also cost. Ask the demo guy to price it both ways, and then factor
> in the price of replacing a couple or three squares of sidewalk and
> fluffing up the lawn. Let the numbers do the talking.
Nonsense.
I used to build swimming pools. Gunite rigs, slam-bangers, bobcats,
dump trucks, cement trucks, plumbing trucks, etc. We all worked from
the street unless specifically allowed closer access. The only thing
that ever had to cross a sidewalk was the bobcat and a small
caterpillar that excavated the hole and it was small enough to not
break up the sidewalk unless it was poorly built. If the buyer wants
to pay for new sidewalk, fine by me, but we never operated assuming
that was an option.
We subbed the deck work and they called in cement mixers, but I never
saw much of that. I do know many cement mixers had huge balloon tires
that help distribute the weight.
nb
RicodJour
> On May 10, 8:39 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > On May 10, 7:44 pm, Evan <evan.news.re...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > In this particular situation such a plate is not recommended because
> > > they would represent a slipping hazard for foot traffic when wet and
> > > this sort of project work will go months where the truck the OP is
> > > worried about is being used as the dumpster for the contractor...
>
> > Months to gut an apartment building? The OP is worried about a couple
> > of squares of sidewalk - I don't think the job is anywhere near the
> > size you're imagining. I'm guessing maybe six units and a week to gut
> > it. Who's holding the pool money? ;)
>
>
> Not if the contractor is using the dump truck as a dumpster...
>
> You can not store any sort of debris inside a partially occupied
> building with dwelling units, it represents a fire hazard...
>
> The contractor will be making MANY daily trips to empty
> the truck at the waste dumping/recycling center during
> the demolition phase of the project and at least once a
> day thereafter to have a clean truck to fill with the next day's
> trash...
>
> It is a great way to avoid creating an attractive nuisance
> on your property which could create liability if someone
> decides to trespass in a dumpster looking for "treasure"
> and got hurt -- it also totally eliminates the issue of
> "anonymous donations" of trash which cost the
> contractor/property owner more money to dispose of...
There are benefits and disadvantages to doing things either way, but
the OP already said the gutting would take a week and not months - so
pay up! ;)
R
Evan
The contractor will need a trash disposal capacity on the
building site throughout the entire project... During the
demo phase the contractor will be frequently emptying
the dump truck, during the building and finishing phases,
the truck would only need to be emptied at the end of
the day...
This sort of arrangement is *much* cheaper and safer
than using a roll-off dumpster as those can not be
left on the street overnight... The contractor already
has this truck for use to deliver materials to the site
and use to haul trash away -- his only costs to use
this truck for those purposes are the fuel, maintenance
and the driver... It gets *VERY* expensive to have
a roll-off container swapped out several times a day...
Moreso when you are dealing with neighborhood
elements adding trash to it which you are paying
to have hauled away...
~~ Evan
chaniarts
highly dependent upon location. when i built my house, there was a rolloff
dumpster there 100% of the time. if you have to empty it multiple times/day,
then it isn't big enough. get one larger for that phase, get a smaller one
for later phases.
Stormin Mormon
FD: No s***!!!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:iqdtq4$ee2$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
RicodJour
> building site throughout the entire project... During the
> demo phase the contractor will be frequently emptying
> the dump truck, during the building and finishing phases,
> the truck would only need to be emptied at the end of
> the day...
>
> This sort of arrangement is *much* cheaper and safer
> than using a roll-off dumpster as those can not be
> left on the street overnight... The contractor already
> has this truck for use to deliver materials to the site
> and use to haul trash away -- his only costs to use
> this truck for those purposes are the fuel, maintenance
> and the driver... It gets *VERY* expensive to have
> a roll-off container swapped out several times a day...
> Moreso when you are dealing with neighborhood
> elements adding trash to it which you are paying
> to have hauled away...
I've done projects both ways and which particular way makes more sense
is entirely dependent on the project and location, and ultimately
dollars. You're making so many assumptions about many factors of
which you have no knowledge, and coming to conclusions with such
certitude it makes me wonder. You can sell yourself on anything you
like without information, but I set the bar a little higher.
R
Evan
ROFL...
Dude the OP described the fire damaged building quite a while
ago on here...
You could put a dumpster out in a city, if you built a temp fence
about 12 feet high around it with razor wire at the top and the
people who would dump stuff would just leave it outside the
fence, where you still have to deal with it...
This is a project in an inner city urban area -- not suburbia
where dumpsters are treated with a little bit more respect...
No assumptions -- just years of experience...
In the city I used to live the city actually had to purchase
self contained portable camera systems because the
illegal dumpers would frequently just pick an alley
somewhere and a couple of hours and assholes later
the roadway is blocked with trash that the city would
have to clean up...
So who is assuming what here ?
~~ Evan
RicodJour
Oh, so you've seen it and are familiar with the street access, etc?
Didn't think so.
> You could put a dumpster out in a city, if you built a temp fence
> about 12 feet high around it with razor wire at the top and the
> people who would dump stuff would just leave it outside the
> fence, where you still have to deal with it...
>
> This is a project in an inner city urban area -- not suburbia
> where dumpsters are treated with a little bit more respect...
>
> No assumptions -- just years of experience...
>
> In the city I used to live the city actually had to purchase
> self contained portable camera systems because the
> illegal dumpers would frequently just pick an alley
> somewhere and a couple of hours and assholes later
> the roadway is blocked with trash that the city would
> have to clean up...
>
> So who is assuming what here ?
I'll list a few of your assumptions:
- that the demo contractor and the GC are one and the same, and will
prefer the same method of work;
- the company makeup of the demo company. One demo guy I use is
solely a carter and only owns a few trucks and has a fair sized labor
force, another is a sorting facility and owns a whole host of trucks,
dumpsters and a relatively small labor force. The first guy has his
guys demo while the truck is off dumping, then fills the truck when it
gets back. The second picks up a dumpster and drops off a new one and
the guys are filling a dumpster pretty much continuously. The both
make money. Go figure.
- what the price difference would be between going up on the sidewalk
with trucks or not;
- that the dumpsters would have to be left overnight;
- that the...
forget it. I've lost interest.
To quote someone else replying to you from that other thread about
Ransley's fire damaged building:
"Now you're arguing against something no one has said. "
Seems to be your MO...
Ransley is a landlord. He is renting units to make money. He is
looking at the bottom line. If different contractors submit different
numbers for doing things in different ways, it's up to Ransley to
figure out how to compare the bids. A couple of squares of concrete
sidewalk and a temporarily depressed lawn will not automatically
invalidate a bid unless there are other factors of which we are both
not aware. If a bid comes in and a demo guy has a lower price doing
it a way that makes less obvious sense, it's Ransley's job to
determine if the lower price is worth the potential increased
liability.
Ransley: no one mentioned a simple way to address what seems to be
your major concern about smoke smell infiltrating into a living space
from inside a wall. Caulk the gap at the bottom of the wall when you
pull the baseboard to refinish the floors, and use switch and outlet
gaskets like those found in the weatherstripping section of the Borg.
R
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Too heavy for what? It will spread the load, preventing sidewalk or
even lawn damage if a large enough piece is used.
Evan
>
>
> Ransley: no one mentioned a simple way to address what seems to be
> your major concern about smoke smell infiltrating into a living space
> from inside a wall. Caulk the gap at the bottom of the wall when you
> pull the baseboard to refinish the floors, and use switch and outlet
> gaskets like those found in the weatherstripping section of the Borg.
>
> R
ROFL...
Rico man, quit while you are ahead...
If ransley followed that advice he would have to pray that nothing
ever leaked anywhere ever again -- lest the tenants be exposed
to a raunchy mixture of wet fire damage and mold that would
smell like a rancid BBQ...
Have to encapsulate the smoke/water damaged internals of the
wall to head off any problems in the future...
~~ Evan
RicodJour
One unit burned, four had heavy smoke damage - those are not in
question. He's asking about what to do about the marginal smoke
areas. I gave him an option. So far you've told him to totally gut
the place and replace all of the wiring and plumbing - that the fire
was an 'opportunity'. He redid the apartments in 2007 and you want
him to gut the place.
You're really good at spending other people's money on the intertubes,
but the advice...not so much.
R