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Clean water in Africa
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Metspitzer
Jun 15, 2013, 3:18:44 PM6/15/13
to
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
Why not send some PVC and a pump?
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
Why not send some PVC and a pump?
Metspitzer
Jun 15, 2013, 3:26:18 PM6/15/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:18:44 -0400, Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net>
wrote:
Obama's Africa trip could cost $60-100 million
A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
itinerary.
At the end of June, Mr. Obama and his family will take an eight-day
trip to sub-Saharan Africa, making stops in Senegal, Tanzania, and
South Africa in the name of reinforcing U.S. commitment to forging
strong relationships with emerging democracies in the region. The
president will hold meetings with "a wide array of leaders from
government, business, and civil society, including youth," according
to a White House press release announcing the trip, and seek to
"underscore the [his administration's] commitment to broadening and
deepening cooperation between the United States and the people of
sub-Saharan Africa to advance regional and global peace and
prosperity."
Presidential trips to foreign countries tend to be expensive in any
administration: According to the Post, former President Bill Clinton's
1998 trip to Africa racked up a bill of at least $42.7 million, not
including what were likely significant Secret Service costs. For his
part, former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, took two
trips to Africa in 2003 and 2008, involving significant resources as
well. But the also paper reports that, due to "a confluence of
factors," Mr. Obama's three-country trip could be "one of the most
expensive" of his presidency.
"Obama's trip could cost the federal government $60 million to $100
million based on the costs of similar African trips in recent years,
according to one person familiar with the journey, who was not
authorized to speak for attribution," according to the Post. The paper
said that it received the internal planning document from a "person
who is concerned about the amount of resources necessary for the
trip."
According to the Post, the expenses listed on the document include:
"Hundreds of U.S. Secret Service agents will be dispatched to
secure facilities in Senegal, South Africa and Tanzania. A Navy
aircraft carrier or amphibious ship, with a fully staffed medical
trauma center, will be stationed offshore in case of an emergency.
Military cargo planes will airlift in 56 support vehicles,
including 14 limousines and three trucks loaded with sheets of
bulletproof glass to cover the windows of the hotels where the first
family will stay. Fighter jets will fly in shifts, giving 24-hour
coverage over the president's airspace, so they can intervene quickly
if an errant plane gets too close."
Other sources of expense include the use of 56 vehicles and hundreds
of Secret Service agents, according to the Post. The document,
however, did not note specific prices.
Mr. Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had reportedly been planning
to go on a safari in Tanzania, but the Post says that trip was
canceled after reporters inquired into the cost and purpose of the
trip.
At a press briefing on Friday, White House spokesman Ben Rhodes
defended the trip, noting that "we have not traveled to Africa in the
same way that we've traveled to other regions in the world" and that
"Africa's a critically important region of the world."
"We have huge interests there... So for the United States to say,
'We're a world leader except in this continent' doesn't make any
sense," Rhodes told reporters. "From a foreign policy perspective, in
some respects, people believe this trip is overdue. And, frankly,
there will be a great bang for our buck for being in Africa, because
when you travel to regions like Africa that don't get a lot of
presidential attention, you can have very long-standing and
long-running impact from the visit."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57589236/report-obamas-africa-trip-could-cost-$60-100-million/
Throw on a couple bundles of PVC and a pump.
wrote:
A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
itinerary.
At the end of June, Mr. Obama and his family will take an eight-day
trip to sub-Saharan Africa, making stops in Senegal, Tanzania, and
South Africa in the name of reinforcing U.S. commitment to forging
strong relationships with emerging democracies in the region. The
president will hold meetings with "a wide array of leaders from
government, business, and civil society, including youth," according
to a White House press release announcing the trip, and seek to
"underscore the [his administration's] commitment to broadening and
deepening cooperation between the United States and the people of
sub-Saharan Africa to advance regional and global peace and
prosperity."
Presidential trips to foreign countries tend to be expensive in any
administration: According to the Post, former President Bill Clinton's
1998 trip to Africa racked up a bill of at least $42.7 million, not
including what were likely significant Secret Service costs. For his
part, former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, took two
trips to Africa in 2003 and 2008, involving significant resources as
well. But the also paper reports that, due to "a confluence of
factors," Mr. Obama's three-country trip could be "one of the most
expensive" of his presidency.
"Obama's trip could cost the federal government $60 million to $100
million based on the costs of similar African trips in recent years,
according to one person familiar with the journey, who was not
authorized to speak for attribution," according to the Post. The paper
said that it received the internal planning document from a "person
who is concerned about the amount of resources necessary for the
trip."
According to the Post, the expenses listed on the document include:
"Hundreds of U.S. Secret Service agents will be dispatched to
secure facilities in Senegal, South Africa and Tanzania. A Navy
aircraft carrier or amphibious ship, with a fully staffed medical
trauma center, will be stationed offshore in case of an emergency.
Military cargo planes will airlift in 56 support vehicles,
including 14 limousines and three trucks loaded with sheets of
bulletproof glass to cover the windows of the hotels where the first
family will stay. Fighter jets will fly in shifts, giving 24-hour
coverage over the president's airspace, so they can intervene quickly
if an errant plane gets too close."
Other sources of expense include the use of 56 vehicles and hundreds
of Secret Service agents, according to the Post. The document,
however, did not note specific prices.
Mr. Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had reportedly been planning
to go on a safari in Tanzania, but the Post says that trip was
canceled after reporters inquired into the cost and purpose of the
trip.
At a press briefing on Friday, White House spokesman Ben Rhodes
defended the trip, noting that "we have not traveled to Africa in the
same way that we've traveled to other regions in the world" and that
"Africa's a critically important region of the world."
"We have huge interests there... So for the United States to say,
'We're a world leader except in this continent' doesn't make any
sense," Rhodes told reporters. "From a foreign policy perspective, in
some respects, people believe this trip is overdue. And, frankly,
there will be a great bang for our buck for being in Africa, because
when you travel to regions like Africa that don't get a lot of
presidential attention, you can have very long-standing and
long-running impact from the visit."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57589236/report-obamas-africa-trip-could-cost-$60-100-million/
Throw on a couple bundles of PVC and a pump.
Oren
Jun 15, 2013, 3:28:59 PM6/15/13
to
"Buy a Goat, Feed a Village"
Video:
<http://video.foxnews.com/v/1286906113001/buy-a-goat-feed-a-village/>
The Goat-O-Meter
<http://goatfortheoldgoat.com/>
Metspitzer
Jun 15, 2013, 3:31:52 PM6/15/13
to
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 15, 2013, 3:44:29 PM6/15/13
to
But --- Do they have power for the pump? Do they have people
qualified to maintain the pump and possibly a generator? Fuel readily
available?
I know there are people drilling wells and sending purification
systems for water from other sources. Water is a major problem over
there.
gpsman
Jun 15, 2013, 3:46:01 PM6/15/13
to
On Jun 15, 3:18 pm, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net> wrote:
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
So... you're suspicious... about what...?
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
> Why not send some PVC and a pump?
Wells have to be "drilled". It's further complicated in the African
bush because so few wells have been drilled there's nothing to suggest
where -good- water may be found, and a lot of it that is shallow is
bad.
-----
- gpsman
Oren
Jun 15, 2013, 3:58:48 PM6/15/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:44:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
>One the surface, that would seem to be a smart idea.
>But --- Do they have power for the pump? Do they have people
>qualified to maintain the pump and possibly a generator? Fuel readily
>available?
Solar powered pumps? Or a hand pump, but the water table must be deep
>>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
>One the surface, that would seem to be a smart idea.
>But --- Do they have power for the pump? Do they have people
>qualified to maintain the pump and possibly a generator? Fuel readily
>available?
below the surface and a hand pump needs priming...
Dan Espen
Jun 15, 2013, 5:41:00 PM6/15/13
to
Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net> writes:
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
it is "lots of pictures".
Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
I have.
Here's a picture:
http://www.toonaripost.com/2011/11/world-news/wateraid-release-new-report/
I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
in Africa too.
Another picture:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198
They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
buildings.
> Why not send some PVC and a pump?
--
Dan Espen
Higgs Boson
Jun 15, 2013, 6:12:42 PM6/15/13
to
micky
Jun 15, 2013, 8:03:37 PM6/15/13
to
>I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
I'm not sure about that. This was 43 years ago, but I remember as I
>carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
crossed from El Salvador to Honduras seeing women at the river below
the bridge I was on washing clothes on the rocks. At the same time I
would guess there were plastic buckets for sale in stores not too far
away**. Unless someone in the family could make his own bucket, the
cheapest thing might be to buy a plastic one.
**I saw them for sale in Guatamala City, and if I had time to go
shopping, I would have seen them in San Salvador, only 100 miles from
where I was then, and probably in smaller closer towns. All this
stuff was sold at a casa plastica, where afaicr everything for sale
was made out of plastic.
I know a man born in a small town on a hill in Poland about 90 years
old now, who had to go part way down the hill to the stream to bring
back buckets of water. He spent the war in Siberia, at the insistent
invitation of the Soviets, and now lives in a house nearby with
running water and central AC. Of course he paid a heavy price for
that.
micky
Jun 15, 2013, 8:41:50 PM6/15/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 17:41:00 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
wrote:
Do you mean they have to walk down 20 floors and then back up, to get
a bucket of water? That's terrible. They should move to ground
level. That's why my mother wouldn't live in a tall building.
Maybe the rich people have someone to go get the water, but my mother
wasn't rich.
wrote:
a bucket of water? That's terrible. They should move to ground
level. That's why my mother wouldn't live in a tall building.
Maybe the rich people have someone to go get the water, but my mother
wasn't rich.
Dan Espen
Jun 15, 2013, 9:10:34 PM6/15/13
to
micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> writes:
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 17:41:00 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net> writes:
>>
>>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>>
>>Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
>>you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
>>it is "lots of pictures".
>>
>>Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
>>I have.
>>
>>Here's a picture:
>>
>>http://www.toonaripost.com/2011/11/world-news/wateraid-release-new-report/
>>
>>I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
>>You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
>>in Africa too.
>>
>>Another picture:
>>
>>http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198
>>
>>They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
>>buildings.
>
> Do you mean they have to walk down 20 floors and then back up, to get
> a bucket of water? That's terrible.
Yep, it is terrible.
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 17:41:00 -0400, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net> writes:
>>
>>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>>
>>Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
>>you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
>>it is "lots of pictures".
>>
>>Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
>>I have.
>>
>>Here's a picture:
>>
>>http://www.toonaripost.com/2011/11/world-news/wateraid-release-new-report/
>>
>>I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
>>You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
>>in Africa too.
>>
>>Another picture:
>>
>>http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198
>>
>>They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
>>buildings.
>
> Do you mean they have to walk down 20 floors and then back up, to get
> a bucket of water? That's terrible.
Maybe when Obama visits we can get some pictures of these poor people
in the stairwells.
--
Dan Espen
Metspitzer
Jun 15, 2013, 10:06:45 PM6/15/13
to
>Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net> writes:
>
>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
>Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
>you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
>it is "lots of pictures".
>
>Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
>I have.
>
I am sure they exist. Someone should show it to the women still
>
>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
>Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
>you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
>it is "lots of pictures".
>
>Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
>I have.
>
carrying the water on their heads.
And.................why is pumping water into huts considered OT?
The Daring Dufas
Jun 15, 2013, 11:12:24 PM6/15/13
to
clean potable water for villages in Africa containing dangerous levels
of selenium. It seems that every time someone tries to help, another
problem crops up. One charity group provided tractors but no fuel so
the villagers sat on them making vroom vroom sounds and taking the parts
off of them to make necklaces and decorations. A European agency sent
condoms to help prevent the spread of aids but the things were too small
so the condoms wound up being used as balloons. One group sent powered
milk to provide a good source of nutrition but they didn't realize that
most adults in Africa can't digest the milk so the milk wound up being
used as whitewash to paint homes and fences. No good deed goes
unpunished. ^_^
TDD
nestork
Jun 15, 2013, 11:15:42 PM6/15/13
to
faced by people in third world countries.
Much of the problems of Africa arise from the fact that many African
governments are extremely corrupt.
For example, the President of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe, won an election
in the early 2000's by sending people out to the country side (where he
is detested) to register everyone who is old enough to vote. However,
the people doing the registering told everyone that what they were
signing was a pledge to defend Robert Mugabe in the event the USA
invaded Zimbabwe just like it did Iraq in the second Persian Gulf war to
get rid of Saddam Hussain. Consequently, almost no one signed the voter
registration lists, and so only Mugabe supporters were able to vote in
the election.
And, with Mugabe paying the army well, he stays in power.
With corruption like that, no companies want to invest money developing
Zimbabwe's natural resources because they're concerned that their
investment can be lost with the passing of a corrupt law. That puts the
brakes on foreign economic development, and everything else follows.
With little industry in the country, there are few high paying jobs, and
little need for universities to train people to fill those jobs. So,
the countries depend on agricultural exports to sustain their economies
and often corrupt government leaders take most of what little money that
brings in.
So, it really all starts with corruption and snowballs from there. Law
and Order, like we have in the west, Europe and most places in Asia is
critical to economic development, and it's something that's lacking most
places in Africa.
--
nestork
The Daring Dufas
Jun 15, 2013, 11:28:25 PM6/15/13
to
TDD
harry
Jun 16, 2013, 3:13:55 AM6/16/13
to
Have you never been to a third world country?
The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.
The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.
And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.
There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
harry
Jun 16, 2013, 3:20:09 AM6/16/13
to
On Jun 15, 10:41 pm, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
Nairobi was built by the British when Kenya was a colony.
Nowadays rapidly going down the tube. A real shit hole.
http://www.kenya-advisor.com/poverty-in-kenya.html
> Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net> writes:
> > I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> > carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> > about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> > modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
> Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
> you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
> it is "lots of pictures".
>
> Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
> I have.
>
> Here's a picture:
>
> http://www.toonaripost.com/2011/11/world-news/wateraid-release-new-re...
> > I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> > carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> > about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> > modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
> Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
> you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
> it is "lots of pictures".
>
> Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
> I have.
>
> Here's a picture:
>
>
> I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
> You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
> in Africa too.
>
> Another picture:
>
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198
>
> They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
> buildings.
>
> > Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
> You have no clue do you?
>
> --
> Dan Espen
You don't either.
> I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
> You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
> in Africa too.
>
> Another picture:
>
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198
>
> They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
> buildings.
>
> > Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
> You have no clue do you?
>
> --
> Dan Espen
Nairobi was built by the British when Kenya was a colony.
Nowadays rapidly going down the tube. A real shit hole.
http://www.kenya-advisor.com/poverty-in-kenya.html
Home Guy
Jun 16, 2013, 8:42:04 AM6/16/13
to
Metspitzer wrote:
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa.
>
> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa.
>
> Why not send some PVC and a pump?
Even better - why not send pallets of birth-control pills?
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:26:15 AM6/16/13
to
The plastic containers are extracted from the trash cans of the nearby cities. The natives are being good sacvengers.
I've heard there are at least a couple agencies trying to provide good water for the African natives.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Higgs Boson" <hypa...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b8a930a6-8c53-4c3f...@googlegroups.com...
I've heard there are at least a couple agencies trying to provide good water for the African natives.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Higgs Boson" <hypa...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b8a930a6-8c53-4c3f...@googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:31:29 AM6/16/13
to
I've heard of towns where the white man came in
and drilled a well. The natives have no concept of
microbes, so the ox and ohter animals congregate
around the well. The microbes from the ox plop
get into the well, and everyone promptly gets
wicked case of diarrhea.
Friend of mine describes the condom issue. The
relief worker woud demonstrate rolling on the
condom "like this" while wrapping his index finger
with the condom. The natives would roll a condom
on the man's index finger of left hand, and wonder
why the pregnancy rate is going up.
Aparently, the natives are good at driving stolen Jeeps,
and firing stolen battle rifles.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpja5k$9p3$1...@dont-email.me...
and drilled a well. The natives have no concept of
microbes, so the ox and ohter animals congregate
around the well. The microbes from the ox plop
get into the well, and everyone promptly gets
wicked case of diarrhea.
Friend of mine describes the condom issue. The
relief worker woud demonstrate rolling on the
condom "like this" while wrapping his index finger
with the condom. The natives would roll a condom
on the man's index finger of left hand, and wonder
why the pregnancy rate is going up.
Aparently, the natives are good at driving stolen Jeeps,
and firing stolen battle rifles.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpja5k$9p3$1...@dont-email.me...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:35:00 AM6/16/13
to
You were writing about Africa! I thought you
meant Chicago!
I've heard that the famines are mostly man made
population control. The blond white chicks show up
with a boat load of supplies, and can't understand why
the skinnies with AK and jeeps won't let them go feed
the stick figures.
"nestork" <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote in message news:nestork...@diybanter.com...
meant Chicago!
I've heard that the famines are mostly man made
population control. The blond white chicks show up
with a boat load of supplies, and can't understand why
the skinnies with AK and jeeps won't let them go feed
the stick figures.
"nestork" <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote in message news:nestork...@diybanter.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:35:54 AM6/16/13
to
Hmm. Gun violence, and corruption.... might
have a point.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpjb3k$bp5$2...@dont-email.me...
have a point.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpjb3k$bp5$2...@dont-email.me...
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 16, 2013, 10:13:13 AM6/16/13
to
much of Africa is like that. The potential for corruption exists
around the world. Yet most countries have figured out how
to deal with it, eliminate it, control it, or at least co-exist with
it.
Yet after hundreds of years and a lot of aid from the rest of the
world, most of Africa is a big mess.
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 16, 2013, 10:22:05 AM6/16/13
to
the USA for "intentionally disrupting" Africa. What exactly have
we done to disrupt Africa? Send them billions in aid? Food
for the starving? What exactly would the purpose be to
"disrupting Africa"? If they had even half way successful
economies, we wouldn't have to send them aid and they
would be another large continent that could buy products from the
USA, benefitting both them and us. And as far as actual
involvement in African countries, perhaps you should look
closer to home at the UK and France.
>
> There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
imbecile.
Oren
Jun 16, 2013, 10:51:07 AM6/16/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:22:05 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.
>
>
>Speaking of ignorance, here we have the village idiot blaming
>the USA for "intentionally disrupting" Africa. What exactly have
>we done to disrupt Africa? Send them billions in aid? Food
>for the starving? What exactly would the purpose be to
>"disrupting Africa"? If they had even half way successful
>economies, we wouldn't have to send them aid and they
>would be another large continent that could buy products from the
>USA, benefitting both them and us. And as far as actual
>involvement in African countries, perhaps you should look
>closer to home at the UK and France.
>
British and Irish soldiers has joined a European mission to train
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.
>
>
>Speaking of ignorance, here we have the village idiot blaming
>the USA for "intentionally disrupting" Africa. What exactly have
>we done to disrupt Africa? Send them billions in aid? Food
>for the starving? What exactly would the purpose be to
>"disrupting Africa"? If they had even half way successful
>economies, we wouldn't have to send them aid and they
>would be another large continent that could buy products from the
>USA, benefitting both them and us. And as far as actual
>involvement in African countries, perhaps you should look
>closer to home at the UK and France.
>
local troops in Mali.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0LXIgCwhtU>
harry
Jun 16, 2013, 10:59:42 AM6/16/13
to
On Jun 16, 3:22 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
You have destablised any regime that interfered with UScommercial
purposes.
http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-intervention-in-africa-4123
wrote:
You have destablised any regime that interfered with UScommercial
purposes.
http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-intervention-in-africa-4123
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 16, 2013, 11:15:32 AM6/16/13
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
"US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
arms,
bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
claim.
Even for a commie pinko bedwetter, I would think they
could come up with a better BS piece of work. But you fell for
it hook, line and sinker. You think that just because they say
it in the title, it's proven. It shows not only how stupid you are,
but how stupid those who write this crap know you and those
like you are.
Pete C.
Jun 16, 2013, 11:45:44 AM6/16/13
to
but ultimately destructive foreign aid. Foreign aid also drives the
corruption that further maintains the festering dung heap that is most
of Africa.
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 16, 2013, 12:12:52 PM6/16/13
to
On Jun 15, 3:26 pm, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:18:44 -0400, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net>
>
> A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
> anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
> Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
> itinerary.
>
> At the end of June, Mr. Obama and his family will take an eight-day
> trip to sub-Saharan Africa, making stops in Senegal, Tanzania, and
> South Africa in the name of reinforcing U.S. commitment to forging
> strong relationships with emerging democracies in the region. The
> president will hold meetings with "a wide array of leaders from
> government, business, and civil society, including youth," according
> to a White House press release announcing the trip, and seek to
> "underscore the [his administration's] commitment to broadening and
> deepening cooperation between the United States and the people of
> sub-Saharan Africa to advance regional and global peace and
> prosperity."
>
> Presidential trips to foreign countries tend to be expensive in any
> administration: According to the Post, former President Bill Clinton's
> 1998 trip to Africa racked up a bill of at least $42.7 million, not
> including what were likely significant Secret Service costs. For his
> part, former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, took two
> trips to Africa in 2003 and 2008, involving significant resources as
> well. But the also paper reports that, due to "a confluence of
> factors," Mr. Obama's three-country trip could be "one of the most
> expensive" of his presidency.
>
> "Obama's trip could cost the federal government $60 million to $100
> million based on the costs of similar African trips in recent years,
> according to one person familiar with the journey, who was not
> authorized to speak for attribution," according to the Post. The paper
> said that it received the internal planning document from a "person
> who is concerned about the amount of resources necessary for the
> trip."
>
> According to the Post, the expenses listed on the document include:
>
> "Hundreds of U.S. Secret Service agents will be dispatched to
> secure facilities in Senegal, South Africa and Tanzania. A Navy
> aircraft carrier or amphibious ship, with a fully staffed medical
> trauma center, will be stationed offshore in case of an emergency.
>
> Military cargo planes will airlift in 56 support vehicles,
> including 14 limousines and three trucks loaded with sheets of
> bulletproof glass to cover the windows of the hotels where the first
> family will stay. Fighter jets will fly in shifts, giving 24-hour
> coverage over the president's airspace, so they can intervene quickly
> if an errant plane gets too close."
>
> Other sources of expense include the use of 56 vehicles and hundreds
> of Secret Service agents, according to the Post. The document,
> however, did not note specific prices.
>
> Mr. Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had reportedly been planning
> to go on a safari in Tanzania, but the Post says that trip was
> canceled after reporters inquired into the cost and purpose of the
> trip.
>
> At a press briefing on Friday, White House spokesman Ben Rhodes
> defended the trip, noting that "we have not traveled to Africa in the
> same way that we've traveled to other regions in the world" and that
> "Africa's a critically important region of the world."
>
> "We have huge interests there... So for the United States to say,
> 'We're a world leader except in this continent' doesn't make any
> sense," Rhodes told reporters. "From a foreign policy perspective, in
> some respects, people believe this trip is overdue. And, frankly,
> there will be a great bang for our buck for being in Africa, because
> when you travel to regions like Africa that don't get a lot of
> presidential attention, you can have very long-standing and
> long-running impact from the visit."
>
Bang for the buck?
I'd like to see examples of the "very long-running impact"
from any previous presidential visits to Africa.
Sure some segment of the population knows what's going
on, knows the president was there, etc. But as far as it
having some long-running impact in these peoples lives
or their countries? With the current budget situation,
maybe it's time to ask the African leaders to come here.
We could feed them lobster and caviar, put them up in
the best hotels, and it would be a tiny fraction of the cost
of Obama going there.
As for the scale of what's required for such a visit and the
cost, one of the cable channels, probably Discovery, was
in Africa when Bush visited. They showed what went on
before and during the visit. It was amazing. Some examples:
Any fuel sources for AF1 have to be tested and then
sealed and secured. In one country, they could not do
that to their satisfaction. So, the AF brought in 7 large
fuel tanker trucks, with fuel, aboard C17s from Europe
to refuel AF1.
They take both 747's that serve as AF1. During the visit
there was a volcano erupting and there was concern that
the ash could be a problem. So, they had one 747 fly
ahead of the other, checking the conditions. Seems to me
if you want to check for ash, it might be better to send
a cheap plane, but then, that's me. Apparently it's std
practice to send one ahead to check for best flight
levels, weather, etc, since they both have to go anyhow.
It really was an interesting show, to see all the complexity
involved.
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:18:44 -0400, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> >carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> >about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> >modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
> >Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
> Obama's Africa trip could cost $60-100 million
>
> >I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
> >carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
> >about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
> >modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
> >Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>
>
> A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
> anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
> Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
> itinerary.
>
> At the end of June, Mr. Obama and his family will take an eight-day
> trip to sub-Saharan Africa, making stops in Senegal, Tanzania, and
> South Africa in the name of reinforcing U.S. commitment to forging
> strong relationships with emerging democracies in the region. The
> president will hold meetings with "a wide array of leaders from
> government, business, and civil society, including youth," according
> to a White House press release announcing the trip, and seek to
> "underscore the [his administration's] commitment to broadening and
> deepening cooperation between the United States and the people of
> sub-Saharan Africa to advance regional and global peace and
> prosperity."
>
> Presidential trips to foreign countries tend to be expensive in any
> administration: According to the Post, former President Bill Clinton's
> 1998 trip to Africa racked up a bill of at least $42.7 million, not
> including what were likely significant Secret Service costs. For his
> part, former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, took two
> trips to Africa in 2003 and 2008, involving significant resources as
> well. But the also paper reports that, due to "a confluence of
> factors," Mr. Obama's three-country trip could be "one of the most
> expensive" of his presidency.
>
> "Obama's trip could cost the federal government $60 million to $100
> million based on the costs of similar African trips in recent years,
> according to one person familiar with the journey, who was not
> authorized to speak for attribution," according to the Post. The paper
> said that it received the internal planning document from a "person
> who is concerned about the amount of resources necessary for the
> trip."
>
> According to the Post, the expenses listed on the document include:
>
> "Hundreds of U.S. Secret Service agents will be dispatched to
> secure facilities in Senegal, South Africa and Tanzania. A Navy
> aircraft carrier or amphibious ship, with a fully staffed medical
> trauma center, will be stationed offshore in case of an emergency.
>
> Military cargo planes will airlift in 56 support vehicles,
> including 14 limousines and three trucks loaded with sheets of
> bulletproof glass to cover the windows of the hotels where the first
> family will stay. Fighter jets will fly in shifts, giving 24-hour
> coverage over the president's airspace, so they can intervene quickly
> if an errant plane gets too close."
>
> Other sources of expense include the use of 56 vehicles and hundreds
> of Secret Service agents, according to the Post. The document,
> however, did not note specific prices.
>
> Mr. Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had reportedly been planning
> to go on a safari in Tanzania, but the Post says that trip was
> canceled after reporters inquired into the cost and purpose of the
> trip.
>
> At a press briefing on Friday, White House spokesman Ben Rhodes
> defended the trip, noting that "we have not traveled to Africa in the
> same way that we've traveled to other regions in the world" and that
> "Africa's a critically important region of the world."
>
> "We have huge interests there... So for the United States to say,
> 'We're a world leader except in this continent' doesn't make any
> sense," Rhodes told reporters. "From a foreign policy perspective, in
> some respects, people believe this trip is overdue. And, frankly,
> there will be a great bang for our buck for being in Africa, because
> when you travel to regions like Africa that don't get a lot of
> presidential attention, you can have very long-standing and
> long-running impact from the visit."
>
Bang for the buck?
I'd like to see examples of the "very long-running impact"
from any previous presidential visits to Africa.
Sure some segment of the population knows what's going
on, knows the president was there, etc. But as far as it
having some long-running impact in these peoples lives
or their countries? With the current budget situation,
maybe it's time to ask the African leaders to come here.
We could feed them lobster and caviar, put them up in
the best hotels, and it would be a tiny fraction of the cost
of Obama going there.
As for the scale of what's required for such a visit and the
cost, one of the cable channels, probably Discovery, was
in Africa when Bush visited. They showed what went on
before and during the visit. It was amazing. Some examples:
Any fuel sources for AF1 have to be tested and then
sealed and secured. In one country, they could not do
that to their satisfaction. So, the AF brought in 7 large
fuel tanker trucks, with fuel, aboard C17s from Europe
to refuel AF1.
They take both 747's that serve as AF1. During the visit
there was a volcano erupting and there was concern that
the ash could be a problem. So, they had one 747 fly
ahead of the other, checking the conditions. Seems to me
if you want to check for ash, it might be better to send
a cheap plane, but then, that's me. Apparently it's std
practice to send one ahead to check for best flight
levels, weather, etc, since they both have to go anyhow.
It really was an interesting show, to see all the complexity
involved.
Oren
Jun 16, 2013, 12:20:42 PM6/16/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 09:12:52 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>As for the scale of what's required for such a visit and the
>cost, one of the cable channels, probably Discovery, was
>in Africa when Bush visited. They showed what went on
>before and during the visit. It was amazing. Some examples:
>
>Any fuel sources for AF1 have to be tested and then
>sealed and secured. In one country, they could not do
>that to their satisfaction. So, the AF brought in 7 large
>fuel tanker trucks, with fuel, aboard C17s from Europe
>to refuel AF1.
>
>They take both 747's that serve as AF1. During the visit
>there was a volcano erupting and there was concern that
>the ash could be a problem. So, they had one 747 fly
>ahead of the other, checking the conditions. Seems to me
>if you want to check for ash, it might be better to send
>a cheap plane, but then, that's me. Apparently it's std
>practice to send one ahead to check for best flight
>levels, weather, etc, since they both have to go anyhow.
>
>It really was an interesting show, to see all the complexity
>involved.
I watched that show. One airport had no radar, so pilots used charts
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>As for the scale of what's required for such a visit and the
>cost, one of the cable channels, probably Discovery, was
>in Africa when Bush visited. They showed what went on
>before and during the visit. It was amazing. Some examples:
>
>Any fuel sources for AF1 have to be tested and then
>sealed and secured. In one country, they could not do
>that to their satisfaction. So, the AF brought in 7 large
>fuel tanker trucks, with fuel, aboard C17s from Europe
>to refuel AF1.
>
>They take both 747's that serve as AF1. During the visit
>there was a volcano erupting and there was concern that
>the ash could be a problem. So, they had one 747 fly
>ahead of the other, checking the conditions. Seems to me
>if you want to check for ash, it might be better to send
>a cheap plane, but then, that's me. Apparently it's std
>practice to send one ahead to check for best flight
>levels, weather, etc, since they both have to go anyhow.
>
>It really was an interesting show, to see all the complexity
>involved.
to navigate and land.
The Daring Dufas
Jun 16, 2013, 5:00:07 PM6/16/13
to
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O
TDD
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 16, 2013, 6:41:43 PM6/16/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>
>I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
>clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
>blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
>imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
>storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O
>
>TDD
You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>
>I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
>clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
>blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
>imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
>storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O
>
>TDD
spoil the First Family Vacation.
OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 16, 2013, 7:54:44 PM6/16/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:18:44 -0400, Metspitzer <Kilo...@charter.net>
- not a well The plastic containers are either re-purposed (cooking
oil containers, pails that other products are shipped in, containers
that are imported (from China or wherever) or containers made in the
country (often as part of a recycling program) All of the above were
used when I was in Zambia and Burkina Faso.
Boreholes, or wells, are being dug by many aid agencies, and pumps are
being installed - but the water is still in most cases hand carried
(or head carried) from the well to the house. In some cases barrels
are used on carts. The pumps are manually operated, and usually of
simple enough construction that they can be maintained by the
villagers themselves.
wrote:
>I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
Much of the water being carried is coming from a stream or water-hole
>I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>
>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
- not a well The plastic containers are either re-purposed (cooking
oil containers, pails that other products are shipped in, containers
that are imported (from China or wherever) or containers made in the
country (often as part of a recycling program) All of the above were
used when I was in Zambia and Burkina Faso.
Boreholes, or wells, are being dug by many aid agencies, and pumps are
being installed - but the water is still in most cases hand carried
(or head carried) from the well to the house. In some cases barrels
are used on carts. The pumps are manually operated, and usually of
simple enough construction that they can be maintained by the
villagers themselves.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 16, 2013, 8:01:03 PM6/16/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 12:58:48 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:44:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>>>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>>
>below the surface and a hand pump needs priming...
Hand pumps are the normal way of doing it - simple, robust hand
pumps that can be maintained, and even made, in the villages. Several
people in each village are usually trained to some extent in the
maintenance of the pump.
Anything complex is worse than nothing, because it breaks down - and
when it breaks down it cannot be readilly repaired - so there is no
water again..
>On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 15:44:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>
>>>Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>>
>>One the surface, that would seem to be a smart idea.
>>But --- Do they have power for the pump? Do they have people
>>qualified to maintain the pump and possibly a generator? Fuel readily
>>available?
>
>Solar powered pumps? Or a hand pump, but the water table must be deep
>>But --- Do they have power for the pump? Do they have people
>>qualified to maintain the pump and possibly a generator? Fuel readily
>>available?
>
>below the surface and a hand pump needs priming...
Hand pumps are the normal way of doing it - simple, robust hand
pumps that can be maintained, and even made, in the villages. Several
people in each village are usually trained to some extent in the
maintenance of the pump.
Anything complex is worse than nothing, because it breaks down - and
when it breaks down it cannot be readilly repaired - so there is no
water again..
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 16, 2013, 8:14:20 PM6/16/13
to
Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.
Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.
Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.
Occupying and running them has not worked.
Educating them is definitely helping.
I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 16, 2013, 8:17:01 PM6/16/13
to
ran things, instead of teaching the locals how to do things for
themselves.
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 16, 2013, 8:21:37 PM6/16/13
to
And France, And Portugal?
Took what they wanted, and when the poing got tough they just buggered
off, leaving their mess behind them.
Oren
Jun 16, 2013, 8:32:24 PM6/16/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>time.
I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
>Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>time.
& Stanley ?
Oren
Jun 16, 2013, 9:02:48 PM6/16/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:01:03 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Hand pumps are the normal way of doing it - simple, robust hand
>pumps that can be maintained, and even made, in the villages. Several
>people in each village are usually trained to some extent in the
>maintenance of the pump.
>
>Anything complex is worse than nothing, because it breaks down - and
>when it breaks down it cannot be readilly repaired - so there is no
>water again..
I've not seen how the hand pump wells are drilled. Relief agencies do
> Hand pumps are the normal way of doing it - simple, robust hand
>pumps that can be maintained, and even made, in the villages. Several
>people in each village are usually trained to some extent in the
>maintenance of the pump.
>
>Anything complex is worse than nothing, because it breaks down - and
>when it breaks down it cannot be readilly repaired - so there is no
>water again..
not show it (that I've seen), other than a pump with water flowing for
a village.
I'm at 2500' elevation. My water table is at ~ 340 feet in the Mohave
Desert. (another story)
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:00:48 PM6/16/13
to
You know, that's a tradesman's view. You look at
dollars and cents, in terms of what it can do, as
boots on the ground. Our silver spoon baby, born
to opulance, views only the campaign benefits of
appearing to care more than the other guy. What
are the odds that the dead voters from Chicago
will care about the massive waste of tax payer
dollars? They are his voting block, after all. And
they will vote for him even if the G-D piece of paper
(says GWB) prohibits a third term.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpl8nj$f9r$1...@dont-email.me...
dollars and cents, in terms of what it can do, as
boots on the ground. Our silver spoon baby, born
to opulance, views only the campaign benefits of
appearing to care more than the other guy. What
are the odds that the dead voters from Chicago
will care about the massive waste of tax payer
dollars? They are his voting block, after all. And
they will vote for him even if the G-D piece of paper
(says GWB) prohibits a third term.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpl8nj$f9r$1...@dont-email.me...
>> Obama's Africa trip could cost $60-100 million
>>
>> A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
>> anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
>> Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
>> itinerary.
>>
>>
>> A presidential trip to Africa this month could cost the government
>> anywhere from $60 to $100 million dollars, according to the Washington
>> Post, which obtained an internal planning document for the travel
>> itinerary.
>>
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 9:03:30 PM6/16/13
to
I've heard that most of the African famines are
warfare, one tribe (who controls the warehouses)
trying to kill off the other tribe of stick figures,
who don't have warehouses. The Jeep and AK-47
Africans want the stick figures to starve to death
and be done with.
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message news:7kfsr8tq37398bpql...@4ax.com...
warfare, one tribe (who controls the warehouses)
trying to kill off the other tribe of stick figures,
who don't have warehouses. The Jeep and AK-47
Africans want the stick figures to starve to death
and be done with.
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message news:7kfsr8tq37398bpql...@4ax.com...
Oren
Jun 16, 2013, 9:18:15 PM6/16/13
to
>Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
Hey Dummy. The USA fought Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel, popularly
known as The Desert Fox, was a German Field Marshal in North Africa.
Dad and his brother fought side by side and came home. Dad with a
Purple Heart.
Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?
You always make shit up harry.
The Daring Dufas
Jun 16, 2013, 10:22:42 PM6/16/13
to
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O
TDD
Stormin Mormon
Jun 16, 2013, 10:35:54 PM6/16/13
to
Friend of mine from church has done a lot of Africa relief, and some other folks have gone along. I should know more, perhaps some day.
I'd like if your daughter would write a bit, maybe set up a web page. Send us the text, or link.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:spksr8drj9ts3b8nj...@4ax.com...
I'd like if your daughter would write a bit, maybe set up a web page. Send us the text, or link.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:spksr8drj9ts3b8nj...@4ax.com...
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 1:38:03 AM6/17/13
to
On Jun 16, 4:15 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> > purposes.http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-intervention-in-africa...Hide quoted text -
Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
But you have a very short attention span.
A lot of it is done "covertly" through third parties.
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> arms,
> bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> claim.
Showing your usual level of ignorance I see.
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> arms,
> bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> claim.
Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
But you have a very short attention span.
A lot of it is done "covertly" through third parties.
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 1:55:20 AM6/17/13
to
countries.
Africa is a shit hole and getting worse, I have watched it deteriorate
over the years.
As someone else mentioned,the continent is overpopulated.
And your daughter is wasting her time.
The "work" of these do-gooders is entirely counter productive and
destructive to the local economy of these places.
Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
foreign (often religious) nuts.
The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. Most of
the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
and bribes. Much is syphoned away through corruption.
So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
DON'T give.
A well known example here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 1:57:49 AM6/17/13
to
Almost there now.
In America the natives were largely exterminated but in Africa they
were not.
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 1:59:29 AM6/17/13
to
>
> And britain did what???????
> And France, And Portugal?
>
> Took what they wanted, and when the poing got tough they just buggered
> off, leaving their mess behind them.
Britain built the city illustrated.
> And britain did what???????
> And France, And Portugal?
>
> Took what they wanted, and when the poing got tough they just buggered
> off, leaving their mess behind them.
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 2:11:30 AM6/17/13
to
the chance.
But then you always come up with fiction.
Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 2:20:53 AM6/17/13
to
On Jun 17, 2:18 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT), harry
>
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT), harry
>
> <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
>
> Hey Dummy. The USA fought Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel, popularly
> known as The Desert Fox, was a German Field Marshal in North Africa.
>
> Dad and his brother fought side by side and came home. Dad with a
> Purple Heart.
>
> Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?
>
> You always make shit up harry.
Is that so? Full of your usual crap
> >Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
>
> Hey Dummy. The USA fought Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel, popularly
> known as The Desert Fox, was a German Field Marshal in North Africa.
>
> Dad and his brother fought side by side and came home. Dad with a
> Purple Heart.
>
> Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?
>
> You always make shit up harry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_Campaign
harry
Jun 17, 2013, 2:21:44 AM6/17/13
to
On Jun 17, 3:22 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
They are best just left to get on with it.
The Daring Dufas
Jun 17, 2013, 4:10:11 AM6/17/13
to
people too. Look at what welfare does which is similar to what happens
in national parks when folks feed the wildlife. o_O
TDD
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 17, 2013, 8:36:58 AM6/17/13
to
On Jun 17, 1:38 am, harry <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 4:15 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
was made that we do it to take their resources, what
resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
I mean this country has conquered more territory than
any country in history. Even when countries attack us,
do we enslave them, take their resources? Hell no,
we rebuild them, give them aid, set up democracy and
give them a decent shot at peace and prosperity.
So, only a total village idiot would look at the very
limited intervention in Libya to end a civil war that
was done by a coaltiion of many countries as some
example of evil perpetrated by the USA on Africa.
> On Jun 16, 4:15 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> > > Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
> > > You have destablised any regime that interfered with UScommercial
> > > purposes.http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-intervention-in-africa...quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> > take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> > "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> > of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> > China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> > arms,
> > bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> > claim.
>
> Showing your usual level of ignorance I see.
> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> > take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> > "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> > of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> > China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> > arms,
> > bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> > claim.
>
> Showing your usual level of ignorance I see.
> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
was made that we do it to take their resources, what
resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
I mean this country has conquered more territory than
any country in history. Even when countries attack us,
do we enslave them, take their resources? Hell no,
we rebuild them, give them aid, set up democracy and
give them a decent shot at peace and prosperity.
So, only a total village idiot would look at the very
limited intervention in Libya to end a civil war that
was done by a coaltiion of many countries as some
example of evil perpetrated by the USA on Africa.
Oren
Jun 17, 2013, 11:35:07 AM6/17/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:20:53 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?
>>
>> You always make shit up harry.
>
>Is that so? Full of your usual crap
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_Campaign
That does not mention the Battle of the Kasserine Pass.
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?
>>
>> You always make shit up harry.
>
>Is that so? Full of your usual crap
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_Campaign
Rommel won a tactical victory over the British, US and French forces.
So you did get whipped.
Oren
Jun 17, 2013, 11:54:01 AM6/17/13
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On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>> >time.
>>
>> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
>> & Stanley ?
>
>Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
>the chance.
His was at the headwaters of the Congo.
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>> >time.
>>
>> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
>> & Stanley ?
>
>Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
>the chance.
>But then you always come up with fiction.
>
>Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
>sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
So. A British explorer "who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to."
Oren
Jun 17, 2013, 3:50:06 PM6/17/13
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On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
>Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
>etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
>was made that we do it to take their resources, what
>resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
but, but, but the UK ran out of cruise missiles and had to go home.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
>Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
>etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
>was made that we do it to take their resources, what
>resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
>I mean this country has conquered more territory than
>any country in history. Even when countries attack us,
>do we enslave them, take their resources? Hell no,
>we rebuild them, give them aid, set up democracy and
>give them a decent shot at peace and prosperity.
>
>So, only a total village idiot would look at the very
>limited intervention in Libya to end a civil war that
>was done by a coaltiion of many countries as some
>example of evil perpetrated by the USA on Africa.
>
American pilot in the 8th Air Force.
His Mum liked American chocolate and cigarettes.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 4:24:00 PM6/17/13
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On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:03:30 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've heard that most of the African famines are
>warfare, one tribe (who controls the warehouses)
>trying to kill off the other tribe of stick figures,
>who don't have warehouses. The Jeep and AK-47
>Africans want the stick figures to starve to death
>and be done with.
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
Well, you hear wrong.
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've heard that most of the African famines are
>warfare, one tribe (who controls the warehouses)
>trying to kill off the other tribe of stick figures,
>who don't have warehouses. The Jeep and AK-47
>Africans want the stick figures to starve to death
>and be done with.
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
The famine causes the war in as many cases as the war causes the
famine. When you have no food because someone else has all the good
land, or the water, you fight for the good land or the water.
When multinationals take over the good land and water to grow coffee
or pineapples or sugar cane to make money so there is no good land and
water available for the common man to raise his maize or manioc or
millet to feed himself, his family, and his livestock, you have
famine. Blame the world bank, not the African.. And famine causes
political unrest - which turns to war - the big man is a member of
tribe A - which gets all the benefit of the multinationals money being
pumped into the country - so tribe B fights to get their share.
And the world bank and the multinationals currently have the biggest
influence on corruption too - they feed it on a daily basis.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 4:34:41 PM6/17/13
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On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.
When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.
Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.
Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..
It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.
African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.
You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.
When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.
Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.
Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..
It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.
African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.
You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 4:39:09 PM6/17/13
to
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:35:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Friend of mine from church has done a lot of Africa relief, and some other folks have gone along. I should know more, perhaps some day.
>
>I'd like if your daughter would write a bit, maybe set up a web page. Send us the text, or link.
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
losnyder dot blogspot dot com
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Friend of mine from church has done a lot of Africa relief, and some other folks have gone along. I should know more, perhaps some day.
>
>I'd like if your daughter would write a bit, maybe set up a web page. Send us the text, or link.
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 5:09:31 PM6/17/13
to
has been counterproductive.
>Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
>foreign (often religious) nuts.
>
>The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
>a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. Most of
>the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
>and bribes. Much is syphoned away through corruption.
>So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
>DON'T give.
>A well known example here.
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html
Just be sure that where you put your money is an effective place to
>foreign (often religious) nuts.
>
>The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
>a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. Most of
>the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
>and bribes. Much is syphoned away through corruption.
>So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
>DON'T give.
>A well known example here.
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html
put it. Agencies like Mennonite Central Committee run on a shoestring
- and no money or aid goes anywhere unless they have "boots on the
ground" to monitor what goes where and to be sure it is not
misappropriated.
World vision does a good job too - albeit with higher overhead, since
much is done by "employees" rather than "volunteers". The aim is to
have locals doing the work on the ground in the countries involved.
Teach them to be able to do what needs to be done, and to do it
effectively (proper use of funds, effective use of resources, ethical
dealings, etc)
My daughter will never get rich - if she's lucky she will make a
reasonable income - and yes, many times she wonders if she IS wasting
her time.
I had the same missgivings when I was in Africa (Zambia) 40 years ago.
Was it effective for me to be there teaching when they had their own
people who were capable of teaching - but could make more money
working in private business because I was willing to be there
basically teaching for nothing??? Might it not have been better to
work towards getting their own people involved rather than having Cuso
volunteers do the job? The CIDA funded directors of the program had a
pretty nice gig going that they were not too interested in working
their way out of. Can't complain about sun 9 months of the year,
cheap beer, and a relatively easy expatriate lifestyle, along with a
good salary and "hardship bonus".
For my part, I tried to instill in my students a sense of
responsibility, and a sense of PRIDE - so that they might consider
teaching others - passing on the knowlege they were SO FORTUNATE to
have the opportunity to have provided for them. I have to believe
that at least a few of my 35 students went on to be a positive
influence in their world. After 2 years I came home with empty
pockets, but a lifetime of experiences to look back on.
My later time in Burkina Faso I sometimes also had to wonder if there
was any point to being there. The people group I was involved in had
real trust issues - they didn't trust each other farther than they
could throw each other - and with good reason - as honesty was not a
commodity in great supply. My friends had, by that time, been working
with this group for about 17 years, and had been really questioning if
anything was getting through. While I was there they found out about
some serious duplicity and deciet that was causing serious problems in
the community. They had to leave the community a year or so later, if
for no other reason than to preserve their sanity - although health
was the more significant force. They still had contact and were still
working with the community, although not living in the community.
Going back 10 or more years later, the whole fabric of the village has
changed - they are more trusting and trustworthy - and along with that
they are becoming more self sufficient and prosperous, and more
healthy. They had an influence - and they had to step back and let it
perculate for a while.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 5:10:53 PM6/17/13
to
Oren
Jun 17, 2013, 6:21:38 PM6/17/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
>>ethnically cleansed.
Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
>>In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
>>ethnically cleansed.
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.
So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.
> By the British - who then became Americans.
The Daring Dufas
Jun 17, 2013, 8:15:47 PM6/17/13
to
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Jun 17, 2013, 9:04:48 PM6/17/13
to
On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O
TDD
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
> <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>>>
>>> Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>>
>> So what are you "suspicious" about?
>> Have you never been to a third world country?
>>
>> The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
>> throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.
>>
>> The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
>> unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.
>>
>> And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.
>>
> <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer <Kilow...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
>>> carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
>>> about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
>>> modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.
>>>
>>> Why not send some PVC and a pump?
>>
>> So what are you "suspicious" about?
>> Have you never been to a third world country?
>>
>> The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
>> throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.
>>
>> The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
>> unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.
>>
>> And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.
>>
>> There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
> Sounds like a British Colonialist.
>
> Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
> did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
> going on around you.
>
> Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
> - and with it, violence.
> Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
> circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.
>
> Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
> alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.
>
> Occupying and running them has not worked.
>
> Educating them is definitely helping.
>
> I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
> working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
> more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
> will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.
>
I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
>
> Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
> did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
> going on around you.
>
> Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
> - and with it, violence.
> Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
> circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.
>
> Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
> alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.
>
> Occupying and running them has not worked.
>
> Educating them is definitely helping.
>
> I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
> working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
> more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
> will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.
>
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O
TDD
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 10:08:15 PM6/17/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 17, 2013, 10:20:32 PM6/17/13
to
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.
Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.
Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.
On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African
The Daring Dufas
Jun 17, 2013, 11:54:23 PM6/17/13
to
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Jun 18, 2013, 12:06:50 AM6/18/13
to
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O
TDD
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 2:34:03 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 17, 1:36 pm, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
> > > > purposes.http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-intervention-in-africa...text -
Afghanistan-lithium
Nicoragua-bananas,pineapples etc
Cuba-sugar
Mexico-land grab,
Iran-Israel
Canada-land grab
Hawaii-land grab
Philipines-naval base
Already forgotten you bombed Libya in 1986?
l
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> > > take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> > > "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> > > of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> > > China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> > > arms,
> > > bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> > > claim.
>
> > Showing your usual level of ignorance I see.
> > Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
> Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
> etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
> was made that we do it to take their resources, what
> resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
> I mean this country has conquered more territory than
> any country in history. Even when countries attack us,
> do we enslave them, take their resources? Hell no,
> we rebuild them, give them aid, set up democracy and
> give them a decent shot at peace and prosperity.
>
> So, only a total village idiot would look at the very
> limited intervention in Libya to end a civil war that
> was done by a coaltiion of many countries as some
> example of evil perpetrated by the USA on Africa.
Iraq-oil
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I can see that you're very easily led astray. Rational people would
> > > take one look at that link you supplied and laugh. It's titled
> > > "US military intervention in Africa". Yet it's all about the number
> > > of US military installations WORLDWIDE, US defense spending,
> > > China, Russia, etc. Not one example of the US intervening, sending
> > > arms,
> > > bombing Africa to take their resources, which is their principal
> > > claim.
>
> > Showing your usual level of ignorance I see.
> > Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
> Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
> etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
> was made that we do it to take their resources, what
> resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
> I mean this country has conquered more territory than
> any country in history. Even when countries attack us,
> do we enslave them, take their resources? Hell no,
> we rebuild them, give them aid, set up democracy and
> give them a decent shot at peace and prosperity.
>
> So, only a total village idiot would look at the very
> limited intervention in Libya to end a civil war that
> was done by a coaltiion of many countries as some
> example of evil perpetrated by the USA on Africa.
Afghanistan-lithium
Nicoragua-bananas,pineapples etc
Cuba-sugar
Mexico-land grab,
Iran-Israel
Canada-land grab
Hawaii-land grab
Philipines-naval base
Already forgotten you bombed Libya in 1986?
l
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 2:35:57 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 17, 4:54 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
>
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
>
> <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
> >> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
> >> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
> >> >time.
>
> >> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
> >> & Stanley ?
>
> >Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
> >the chance.
>
> His was at the headwaters of the Congo.
>
> >But then you always come up with fiction.
>
> >Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
> >sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
>
> Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.
By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
> >On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
> >> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
> >> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
> >> >time.
>
> >> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
> >> & Stanley ?
>
> >Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
> >the chance.
>
> His was at the headwaters of the Congo.
>
> >But then you always come up with fiction.
>
> >Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
> >sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
>
> Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.
The ones left that is after the various massacres.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 2:38:18 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 17, 8:50 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"
But then you don't even know your own history never mind anyone else's.
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"
>
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
> >Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
> >etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
> >was made that we do it to take their resources, what
> >resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
> but, but, but the UK ran out of cruise missiles and had to go home.
>
> >I mean this country has conquered more territory than
> >any country in history.
There are many countries conquered more territory then the USA.
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>
> >Sigh.... Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
> >etc. So, why is this a USA thing again? And the charge
> >was made that we do it to take their resources, what
> >resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>
> but, but, but the UK ran out of cruise missiles and had to go home.
>
> >I mean this country has conquered more territory than
> >any country in history.
But then you don't even know your own history never mind anyone else's.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 2:53:50 AM6/18/13
to
There are huge tracts of ex-farmland in Africa uncultivated because
the farmers can't sell anything they grow due to food aid. So they
give up and go and join the queue for the free hand-outs.
And there is ignorance and incompetence, they are unable to run any
business effectively.
A lot of land has intermitant droughts. The same places cannot support
the population in drought though it can in good rains. So,
overpopulated due to high birth AND survival rates.
There is no point in supporting this ever increasing population, we
are headed for mega-disaster.
The streets in the UK are filled with "Chuggers" (Charity muggers).
They are paid to try to get you to sign up to regular payments for one
charity or another.
At one time we had volunteers on the streets rattling tins for
donations.
Charity is big business over here.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 3:06:17 AM6/18/13
to
The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm
You don't even know current events never mind your own history.
I hear you still gas people in some states.
And "W" authorised torture.
Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.
The fascist state.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 3:10:43 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 18, 1:15 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
There has always been slavery everywhere and there still is.
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 3:12:25 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 18, 2:04 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
There is nothing can be done Duf, it is an insoluble problem.
Interference only makes things worse.
Interference only makes things worse.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 3:16:57 AM6/18/13
to
I have travelled extensively in Morocco. It is now a major European
tourist destination. Think Mexico only less violent/more culture.
For the moment anyway
There are far worse places than Casablanca. And better.
Casablanca is pretty untypical.
harry
Jun 18, 2013, 3:19:54 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 18, 5:06 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
You are right to be suspicious Duf. Many of these aid agencies are
just self serving wonks/crooks.
There are probably lots of people in the USA need assistance these
days. You can help them on a personal basis and see where your money
is going.
just self serving wonks/crooks.
There are probably lots of people in the USA need assistance these
days. You can help them on a personal basis and see where your money
is going.
The Daring Dufas
Jun 18, 2013, 5:17:23 AM6/18/13
to
slavery by their own people on the coast of West Africa to slave traders
from Europe. The different tribes waring with each other didn't consider
what they were doing with the prisoners they took to be wrong but I
suppose they didn't care as long as their adversaries were out of their
sight for ever. I wonder if the warlords actually knew of the horror
their fellow Africans faced in the dark holds of those slaver's ships? o_O
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Jun 18, 2013, 5:27:46 AM6/18/13
to
was hospitalized last May, the minister from my friend's church was my
first visitor because I helped repair the AC unit outside their church
after copper thieves cut out the copper lines. I donated time and
materials even though I don't share their faith. They're just nice good
people who have little but help others as much as they can. I suppose
when I help a group of folks like that, I'm helping many others by
proxy. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Jun 18, 2013, 5:37:54 AM6/18/13
to
political situation in those countries with a large population of folks
in desperate situations. I would think the best help is expressed by the
old adage containing the words "Teach a man to fish". I can't feel anger
toward the wonderful caring people who are trying to help but what
happens is often out of their control and the results are not what they
expected. o_O
TDD
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 8:51:16 AM6/18/13
to
Interesting information, thank you.
.
.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:aorur8t2k2sfp22fj...@4ax.com...
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
.
.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:aorur8t2k2sfp22fj...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 8:53:03 AM6/18/13
to
Sounds like the situation is a total pain in the ass.
I'm glad you're seeing it from within.
You obviously see things deeper than most.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:i4sur89ikv0pev530...@4ax.com...
I'm glad you're seeing it from within.
You obviously see things deeper than most.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:i4sur89ikv0pev530...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 8:54:28 AM6/18/13
to
Is there some reason you can't simply provide a
clickable URL?
.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:9osur81ktkl0r1kb7...@4ax.com...
clickable URL?
.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:9osur81ktkl0r1kb7...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:01:18 AM6/18/13
to
Some years ago, I met a fellow who lived near me. City grown
person. He grew up in a welfare home. I grew up in the suburbs.
I decided to see if I could coach him in some better ways to
do things. What I found was that everything he did came with a
big list of reasons. Which reasons made no sense to me. And
everything I suggested was declined for a big list of reasons.
Which list of reasons made no sense to me. And so twenty years
later, the only thing I accomplished was to have wasted a lot of
time and money and effort. And some antacids based on
frustration. Twenty years later he had fewer teeth and a couple
heart attacks from smoking and fatty dieet of city foods. The tax
payer had paid for most of his cigs, and had paid for his couple
days in the hospital and is presently paying for all his medication.
When I met hin, his idea of how to spend time was to stand on
the front porch with a cigarette and cordless phone, and chat
with the people walking by. When I said good bye to him, he
was standing on the front porch with a cigarette, and cordless
phone, chatting with the people going by.
I don't plan to go to Africa any time in my life.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:s1tur85nm4lmqk10h...@4ax.com...
person. He grew up in a welfare home. I grew up in the suburbs.
I decided to see if I could coach him in some better ways to
do things. What I found was that everything he did came with a
big list of reasons. Which reasons made no sense to me. And
everything I suggested was declined for a big list of reasons.
Which list of reasons made no sense to me. And so twenty years
later, the only thing I accomplished was to have wasted a lot of
time and money and effort. And some antacids based on
frustration. Twenty years later he had fewer teeth and a couple
heart attacks from smoking and fatty dieet of city foods. The tax
payer had paid for most of his cigs, and had paid for his couple
days in the hospital and is presently paying for all his medication.
When I met hin, his idea of how to spend time was to stand on
the front porch with a cigarette and cordless phone, and chat
with the people walking by. When I said good bye to him, he
was standing on the front porch with a cigarette, and cordless
phone, chatting with the people going by.
I don't plan to go to Africa any time in my life.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:s1tur85nm4lmqk10h...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:02:52 AM6/18/13
to
Don't most socialists complain bitterly about multi
national corporations with all the power? They would
much rather have government with all the power.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpo8ia$bk1$1...@dont-email.me...
national corporations with all the power? They would
much rather have government with all the power.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpo8ia$bk1$1...@dont-email.me...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:04:10 AM6/18/13
to
Sounds like Clare, like me in my Lenny days, was
trying to help them learn new skills and take care of
themselves. I respect that.
I wonder if powerful multi national corporations were
keeping Lenny on the porch with the cordless phone?
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpobe8$mr3$1...@dont-email.me...
trying to help them learn new skills and take care of
themselves. I respect that.
I wonder if powerful multi national corporations were
keeping Lenny on the porch with the cordless phone?
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpobe8$mr3$1...@dont-email.me...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:06:03 AM6/18/13
to
So, how many black African corporations are
responsible? Or are the multi national corps
run by rich white men wtih cigars and air
conditioned high offices in sky scraper buildings
with coffee machines and secretaries?
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:e7gvr8h3mjild6ufc...@4ax.com...
responsible? Or are the multi national corps
run by rich white men wtih cigars and air
conditioned high offices in sky scraper buildings
with coffee machines and secretaries?
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:e7gvr8h3mjild6ufc...@4ax.com...
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
>> of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
>> Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
>> deeper than that.
>>
>
>> of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
>> Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
>> deeper than that.
>>
>
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:08:27 AM6/18/13
to
Ah, health problems. I dumped Lenny after he got
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.
Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:fagvr893ql2so0imp...@4ax.com...
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.
Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:fagvr893ql2so0imp...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:11:17 AM6/18/13
to
Now, that's a profound question. Which agencies
are actually doing good for the Africans? I don't
donate, because I'm suspicious.
The other question. Is foreign relief allowing the
Africans to have larger families, who will grow up
as dependants on foreign relief?
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpom3i$224$1...@dont-email.me...
are actually doing good for the Africans? I don't
donate, because I'm suspicious.
The other question. Is foreign relief allowing the
Africans to have larger families, who will grow up
as dependants on foreign relief?
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpom3i$224$1...@dont-email.me...
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 9:13:32 AM6/18/13
to
Needs silent alarm motion detectors around the AC.
So the pastor and the Elders can run out and beat the
copper thieves into the next world.
Big sign over the crucifix: Here is the king of the
copper thieves.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpp8ts$e5k$1...@dont-email.me...
So the pastor and the Elders can run out and beat the
copper thieves into the next world.
Big sign over the crucifix: Here is the king of the
copper thieves.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote in message news:kpp8ts$e5k$1...@dont-email.me...
tra...@optonline.net
Jun 18, 2013, 9:47:20 AM6/18/13
to
On Jun 18, 5:17 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
> TDD- Hide quoted text -
them off to a vacation cruise.....
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, I can't imagine they thought they were sending
> - Show quoted text -
them off to a vacation cruise.....
Oren
Jun 18, 2013, 10:09:40 AM6/18/13
to
of me. You really are a dumb shit.
Oren
Jun 18, 2013, 10:22:51 AM6/18/13
to
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:06:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 11:21�pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >>In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
>> >>ethnically cleansed.
>>
>> Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
>> justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
>> always an Indian.
>>
>> So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
>> you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
>> information.
>>
>> > �By the British - who then became Americans.
>>
>> harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#Indigenous_People
>
Wow 1838!
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 11:21�pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >>In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
>> >>ethnically cleansed.
>>
>> Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
>> justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
>> always an Indian.
>>
>> So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
>> you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
>> information.
>>
>> > �By the British - who then became Americans.
>>
>> harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#Indigenous_People
>
>The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
>More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
>http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm
>
>You don't even know current events never mind your own history.
start a chronological log for you?
>I hear you still gas people in some states.
>And "W" authorised torture.
Good for him. But is not "torture". It is enhanced interrogations, but
being the git that you are, you'll never figure it out.
>Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
>telephone convesations.
>
know.
>The fascist state.
Got a resource reference for that?
Oren
Jun 18, 2013, 10:25:45 AM6/18/13
to
move the goal post all the time.
You should seek some mental heath counseling.
Stormin Mormon
Jun 18, 2013, 11:30:08 AM6/18/13
to
The local slavery treatment is likely different than
what the whites on the Carnival Slave Tours did.
Both are nothing to be desired, I'm sure.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:2778ef46-ac70-43e8...@eg10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
what the whites on the Carnival Slave Tours did.
Both are nothing to be desired, I'm sure.
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:2778ef46-ac70-43e8...@eg10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 18, 5:17 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky-
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 18, 2013, 1:12:17 PM6/18/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
>some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
>situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
>work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
>prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
>something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
>wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
>friend. o_O
>
>TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> That is NOT what I said - and you know it.
>>
>
>Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
>>
>
>rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
>some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
>situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
>work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
>prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
>something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
>wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
>friend. o_O
>
>TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 18, 2013, 1:19:03 PM6/18/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.
In the USA they are located at:
Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151
More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
>>> a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
>>> that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
>>> have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
>>> lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
>>> of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
>>> nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
>>> try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
>>> country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O
>>>
>>> TDD
>>> a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
>>> that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
>>> have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
>>> lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
>>> of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
>>> nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
>>> try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
>>> country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O
>>>
>>> TDD
>> Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
>> for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.
>>
>> Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
>> against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
>> including what is in the drinking water.
>>
>> Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
>> wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
>> In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
>> better.
>>
>> On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
>> Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
>> Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
>> Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
>> from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
>> don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
>> not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African
>>
>
>> for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.
>>
>> Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
>> against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
>> including what is in the drinking water.
>>
>> Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
>> wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
>> In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
>> better.
>>
>> On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
>> Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
>> Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
>> Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
>> from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
>> don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
>> not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African
>>
>
>I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
>water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
>clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
>keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
>travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
>little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
>uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
>donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
>organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O
>
>TDD
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
>water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
>clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
>keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
>travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
>little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
>uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
>donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
>organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O
>
>TDD
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.
In the USA they are located at:
Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151
More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 18, 2013, 1:22:41 PM6/18/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:35:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 4:54 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
>>
>> <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
parents born on American soil, who died on American soil - and they
themselves will die on American soil. A very large percentage having
never set foot OFF of American soil - so yes, the RE American.
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 4:54 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
>>
>> <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>> >> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>> >> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>> >> >time.
>>
>> >> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
>> >> & Stanley ?
>>
>> >Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
>> >the chance.
>>
>> His was at the headwaters of the Congo.
>>
>> >But then you always come up with fiction.
>>
>> >Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
>> >sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
>>
>> Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.
>
>
>By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
>The ones left that is after the various massacres.
Still the VAST majority of Americans were born on American soil - of
>> >> On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> >> >Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
>> >> >wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
>> >> >dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
>> >> >time.
>>
>> >> I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
>> >> & Stanley ?
>>
>> >Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
>> >the chance.
>>
>> His was at the headwaters of the Congo.
>>
>> >But then you always come up with fiction.
>>
>> >Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
>> >sport he was no doubt accustomed to.
>>
>> Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.
>
>
>By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
>The ones left that is after the various massacres.
parents born on American soil, who died on American soil - and they
themselves will die on American soil. A very large percentage having
never set foot OFF of American soil - so yes, the RE American.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Jun 18, 2013, 1:24:10 PM6/18/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:38:18 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 8:50�pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"
>>
>> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>>
>> >Sigh.... �Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
>> >etc. �So, why is this a USA thing again? �And the charge
>> >was made that we do it to take their resources, what
>> >resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>>
>> but, but, but the UK ran out of �cruise missiles and had to go home.
>>
>> >I mean this country has conquered more territory than
>> >any country in history.
>
>There are many countries conquered more territory then the USA.
>
>But then you don't even know your own history never mind anyone else's.
Historically the UK has conquered MANY more countries and a LOT more
land the the USA has in it's short 200+ year history.
So has France -
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Jun 17, 8:50�pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT), "trad...@optonline.net"
>>
>> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >> Libya was one well known example where the US bombed in Africa.
>>
>> >Sigh.... �Along with the UK, Canada, France, the rest of NATO,
>> >etc. �So, why is this a USA thing again? �And the charge
>> >was made that we do it to take their resources, what
>> >resources exactly did we take in the case of Libya?
>>
>> but, but, but the UK ran out of �cruise missiles and had to go home.
>>
>> >I mean this country has conquered more territory than
>> >any country in history.
>
>There are many countries conquered more territory then the USA.
>
>But then you don't even know your own history never mind anyone else's.
land the the USA has in it's short 200+ year history.
So has France -
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