Would Werner warrnty replace one of their ladders that fell off the truck?

[Wally J]

Would Werner warranty replace one of their ladders that fell off the truck?

Literally. It fell off the truck and by the time I was able to loop around,
it was run over so it's clearly almost new but also clearly run over.

Anyone have experience with them?
They're not open weekends so I'll try to contact them on Monday.

But just wondering if it's a lost cause (as I would understand, but some
outfits, like Costco for example, have a no-questions-asked warranty).

[Ed P]

Would be silly of them to do so. Nothing they did caused the problem.
Sue the person that did not secure it. Take them to small claims court.

[Mickey D]

On 02-07-2023 09:07 Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>> But just wondering if it's a lost cause (as I would understand, but some
>> outfits, like Costco for example, have a no-questions-asked warranty).
>
> Would be silly of them to do so. Nothing they did caused the problem.
> Sue the person that did not secure it. Take them to small claims court.

Most Europeans are used to atrociously terrible customer service when it
comes to a product that the customer wants replaced or returned.

Americans are used to astoundingly good exceptional customer service.

There have been lawsuits in German companies, for example, which we can
look up where even the German courts sided with the American companies,
saying "since when is good service an unfair competitive advantage?".

With few exceptions, Costco has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Simply bring
the product to any Costco warehouse and our Member Services Team will be
happy to assist you. 888-523-3370
https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/712/~/how-can-i-return-an-item-purchased-in-a-costco-warehouse

Werner is not an exceptionally customer focused company but if you bought
the ladder from an exceptionally customer focused company you might get the
warranty to kick in. https://www.wernerparts.com/conditions-of-use

"Return Policy. Due to the nature of our online site, and the products
listed, we Nall & Company, Inc. have a strict NO RETURN policy for any
product. No product shall be able to be returned for a like item, or for a
cash refund."

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:11:27 -0400, Wally J

It's funny. Your subject line shows up in small font and it looks like
you're asking Would Werner warmly replace one of their ladders...?

I don't think they'll do it warmly, but you can ask on Monday.

[Joe]

If you live in a Democrat city with a Soros funded prosecutor, just go
to Lowes Depot and swipe a new one. Easy-peasy!

[hub...@ccanoemail.com]

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:11:27 -0400, Wally J
<walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

Warranty covers defects or premature wear/failure under normal use.
If your ladder is normally used to fly off vehicles
and getting run over - then yes.
Some companies will stretch the " normal use " in the name of
good customer relations and provide a discount on a replacement
or offer a gift card - but that isn't really product warranty.
John T.

[Mark Lloyd]

"warranty" doesn't look like "warmly" here.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Of the delights of this world, man cares most for sexual intercourse,
yet he has left it out of his heaven" [Mark Twain]

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:43:52 -0500, Mark Lloyd

<not....@all.invalid> wrote:

>On 7/1/23 23:27, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 23:11:27 -0400, Wally J
>> <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>> Would Werner warranty replace one of their ladders that fell off the truck?
>>>
>>> Literally. It fell off the truck and by the time I was able to loop around,
>>> it was run over so it's clearly almost new but also clearly run over.
>>>
>>> Anyone have experience with them?
>>> They're not open weekends so I'll try to contact them on Monday.
>>>
>>> But just wondering if it's a lost cause (as I would understand, but some
>>> outfits, like Costco for example, have a no-questions-asked warranty).
>>
>> It's funny. Your subject line shows up in small font and it looks like
>> you're asking Would Werner warmly replace one of their ladders...?
>>
>> I don't think they'll do it warmly, but you can ask on Monday.
>
>"warranty" doesn't look like "warmly" here.

But he doesn't have the whole word.

He has warrnty

And some my fonts make rn almost indististinguishable from m.

[Peter Moylin]

On 02/07/23 13:56, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> Warranty covers defects or premature wear/failure under normal use.
> If your ladder is normally used to fly off vehicles
> and getting run over - then yes.

This isn't a defect (except in how the ladder was bungeed corded).

> Some companies will stretch the " normal use " in the name of
> good customer relations and provide a discount on a replacement
> or offer a gift card - but that isn't really product warranty.

Many companies have a no-questions-asked replacement plan.

An example is I contacted Duracell about my flashlight being destroyed
because their batteries leaked and they sent me twenty bucks for that one
complaint - no questions asked.

Another case was my Fiskar shears broke at the handle after, oh, I don't
know, five or ten years - and they sent me a brand new Fiscars shears.

The only thing they asked for was a photo of the broken one.
--
Peter Moylin

[Incubus]

On 2023-07-02, Mickey D <mickeyda...@ptd.net> wrote:
> With few exceptions, Costco has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

So does the maker of my blue "Jackson" wheelbarrow.

I left it bottoms up outside for a few years.
And the rubber tire rotted.

I called them up to complain - not to get it replace.
Just to tell them they should use better rubber in those tires.

They asked for a photo.
I gave them a photo.

They sent me a new tire.
I didn't even ASK for it.

I had just wanted to complain about it.
Now I have nothing to complain about. :)

[Cindy Hamilton]

Use a different font. I like Lucida Console.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 02 Jul 2023 20:55:01 GMT, Cindy Hamilton

I set it for that just now. I may well like it. Thanks.

[Mark Lloyd]

On 7/2/23 11:50, micky wrote:

[snip]

>> "warranty" doesn't look like "warmly" here.
>
> But he doesn't have the whole word.
>
> He has warrnty
>
> And some my fonts make rn almost indististinguishable from m.

True. Proportional spacing can be a bad idea. It puts the letters too
close together.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"On the other hand, the Bible contains much that is relevant today, like
Noah taking 40 days to find a place to park." [Curtis McDougall]

[Wally J]

Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote

I called these guys....

https://www.wernerco.com/us/company/contact-us
Retail Customer Care Phone: 888-523-3370 in...@wernerparts.com

They told me there is no written warranty for ANY Werner ladder.
No matter what happens to it.

Defects aren't allowed.

So I guess it's time to find a better brand of ten-foot step-ladder.
Any suggestions?

[Bob F]

Good luck finding a ladder that will meet YOUR warranty requirement,
scammer!

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 3 Jul 2023 17:47:11 -0400, Wally J

<walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote
>
>> Would Werner warranty replace one of their ladders that fell off the truck?
>>
>> Literally. It fell off the truck and by the time I was able to loop around,
>> it was run over so it's clearly almost new but also clearly run over.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with them?
>> They're not open weekends so I'll try to contact them on Monday.
>>
>> But just wondering if it's a lost cause (as I would understand, but some
>> outfits, like Costco for example, have a no-questions-asked warranty).
>
>I called these guys....
>
>https://www.wernerco.com/us/company/contact-us
>Retail Customer Care Phone: 888-523-3370 in...@wernerparts.com
>
>They told me there is no written warranty for ANY Werner ladder.
>No matter what happens to it.

So even if it broke when you stepped on it, and you weighed less than
the rating it has, they wouldn't repair or replace it?

This is very strange.

The Uniform Commerical Code imposes a warranty on every product sold in
the USA. Personal property. Does't apply to real estate, investments,
and maybe some other stuff.

So I wonder why they wouldn't just claim that warranty they have to give
as if they wanted to give it.

Furthermore, written warranties provided by manufacturers are in one way
the opposite of what you might think. There is already a common law
warranty on those things, and the written warranty is a limitation on
the common law warranty.

For example, if you had a wood baseball bat, what would be the
reasonsble life expectancy for one of those, 20 years? At least. So
aiui, the common law warranty would be 20 years. The attractive
certificate that comes with the bat and says it's warranted for 1 year
is a limitation, not a gift.

If the person you talked to thought the answer you got meant you had
(past tense) no warranty, because there is nothing in print, it almost
sounds as if heis as misinformed about warranties as the average
consumer.

Because without a printed limitation, I think you have the common law
warranty, though I'm not sure how long that would be for a ladder.
Wood? Aluminum? Fiberglass? Origami?

BUT, AND THIS IS A BIG BUT, NO COMMON LAW WARRANTY IS GOING TO COVER
DROPPING THE LADDER IN THE STREET SO THAT IT GETS RUN OVER.

>Defects aren't allowed.
>
>So I guess it's time to find a better brand of ten-foot step-ladder.
>Any suggestions?

For reference, but not a suggestion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code

There is a fall protection limited product warranty, for one year, but
that makes litle sense to me. Warranty or not, fall comes every year.
https://www.wernerco.com/docs/default-source/literature/fall-protection-limited-product-warranty.pdf?sfvrsn=c15b6cf2_2

Also, I note when you look at ladders on Home Depot, if you want a
limited lifetime warranty, the page shows NO Werner ladders, only or
mostly Gorilla.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Ladders/Limited-Lifetime-Warranty/N-5yc1vZaqnpZ1z0sar8
But if you red X out the warranty requirement on the same line with "32
results", it doesn't give a list of ladders but more of a
table-of-contents page with reference to 6 brands including Werner, and
if you click on that it has 252 results.
If you don't click, the Brands are:
Werner
Gorilla Ladders
Louisville Ladders
Cosco
Rubbermaid
Murphy Ladder
So assuming the webpage works well, then Louisville, Cosco, Rubbermaid,
and Murphy Ladder don't have limited lifetime warranties either and
maybe they have no printed warranty (No time to look that up.)

(BTW, don't buy a Rubbermaid ladder. As soon as you stand on one it
falls down. After all, they're rubber.)

And here's a letter complaining, I suspect, about the same thing you
have:
https://firewoodhoardersclub.com/forums/threads/ladder-failure-bad-customer-service-from-company.27096/
He says that Werner says "do not have a written warranty on their
products. However, we do stand behind the quality of our products" but
when I google the words between the quotes and the word werner, I get
some hits but the first two don't have the words that google search said
they do, unless it's on a later connected page. The HD pages has 7 pages
of 306 questions and I only looked at page 1. I didn't look further.

To learn more about the warranty for the purpose intended, check out
https://www.google.com/search?q=warranty+for+intended+purpose
They can be express or implied and IIUC what I was talking about the
implied kind as a creature of the common law. And Werner won't give an
express warranty.

Ah, I remember. The problem is that ladders are involved in so many
accidents. 40 or 50% of the cost of the ladder is for legal fees ladder
companies are forced to expend, so I'm pretty sure that's why there is
no express warranty (except from Gorilla, but maybe that company started
making ladders after some change in negligence law wrt ladders).

There is also a warranty of merchantability, but that applies only iiuc
at the time of sale.

Also,
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ucc+warranty+fitness

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-ucc-sales-contract-warranties.html

https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315

[Wally J]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

>>They told me there is no written warranty for ANY Werner ladder.
>>No matter what happens to it.
>
> So even if it broke when you stepped on it, and you weighed less than
> the rating it has, they wouldn't repair or replace it?

Obviously I asked them that question. They said they wouldn't even take a
picture of it. They mentioned something about no ladder company will.

On purpose, they do not have ANY WRITTEN POLICY for their ladder warranty.

> This is very strange.

I suspect they are doing it for liability reasons.
But I'm no lawyer.

> The Uniform Commerical Code imposes a warranty on every product sold in
> the USA. Personal property. Does't apply to real estate, investments,
> and maybe some other stuff.

I did not know that. I don't know the legal implications either.
But I can tell you Werner has no WRITTEN policy on their ladder warranty.

What that means with respect to that code, I can not say.

> So I wonder why they wouldn't just claim that warranty they have to give
> as if they wanted to give it.

I was VERY CLEAR with the lady - as I was with you guys. You saw that.
She told me that it didn't matter WHAT happened to the ladder.

They have no WRITTEN warranty.
She never said the word "warranty" without preceding it with "WRITTEN".

> Furthermore, written warranties provided by manufacturers are in one way
> the opposite of what you might think. There is already a common law
> warranty on those things, and the written warranty is a limitation on
> the common law warranty.

Dunno anything about that. I only know what the lady told me.
Is there a lawyer in the group?

> For example, if you had a wood baseball bat, what would be the
> reasonsble life expectancy for one of those, 20 years? At least. So
> aiui, the common law warranty would be 20 years. The attractive
> certificate that comes with the bat and says it's warranted for 1 year
> is a limitation, not a gift.

But just like with the ladders, you can hit a 90mph pitch in just the wrong
spot on a wooden baseball bat and it would crack apart. We've all seen it.

But again - I am no lawyer so I know nothing about a baseball bat warranty.

> If the person you talked to thought the answer you got meant you had
> (past tense) no warranty, because there is nothing in print, it almost
> sounds as if heis as misinformed about warranties as the average
> consumer.

She was very clear. I was very clear. I asked her point blank if the ladder
simply failed while I was using it normally would there be a warranty.

She said there is no written warranty from Werner covering any situation
where the ladder fails. That's why I said to her "defects aren't allowed?"
and she said there is no process for processing a warranty at Werner.

> Because without a printed limitation, I think you have the common law
> warranty, though I'm not sure how long that would be for a ladder.
> Wood? Aluminum? Fiberglass? Origami?

This is interesting in that you're saying there is ALWAYS a warranty where
NOT having a WRITTEN warranty actually gives me certain rights?

Anyway, I told her the ladder fell off the truck (I wasn't going to hide
it), and she said that's not covered but neither is anything else she said.

> BUT, AND THIS IS A BIG BUT, NO COMMON LAW WARRANTY IS GOING TO COVER
> DROPPING THE LADDER IN THE STREET SO THAT IT GETS RUN OVER.

Understood. But "some" companies have a no-questions-asked return policy.
Don't they?

>
>>Defects aren't allowed.
>>
>>So I guess it's time to find a better brand of ten-foot step-ladder.
>>Any suggestions?
>
> For reference, but not a suggestion.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
>
> There is a fall protection limited product warranty, for one year, but
> that makes litle sense to me. Warranty or not, fall comes every year.
> https://www.wernerco.com/docs/default-source/literature/fall-protection-limited-product-warranty.pdf?sfvrsn=c15b6cf2_2
>
> Also, I note when you look at ladders on Home Depot, if you want a
> limited lifetime warranty, the page shows NO Werner ladders, only or
> mostly Gorilla.

Now that's interesting. It confirms what I found out from Werner today.

> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Ladders/Limited-Lifetime-Warranty/N-5yc1vZaqnpZ1z0sar8
> But if you red X out the warranty requirement on the same line with "32
> results", it doesn't give a list of ladders but more of a
> table-of-contents page with reference to 6 brands including Werner, and
> if you click on that it has 252 results.
> If you don't click, the Brands are:
> Werner
> Gorilla Ladders
> Louisville Ladders
> Cosco
> Rubbermaid
> Murphy Ladder
> So assuming the webpage works well, then Louisville, Cosco, Rubbermaid,
> and Murphy Ladder don't have limited lifetime warranties either and
> maybe they have no printed warranty (No time to look that up.)

Now I'm confused.
But thanks for looking that up.

Maybe ladders are special?

> (BTW, don't buy a Rubbermaid ladder. As soon as you stand on one it
> falls down. After all, they're rubber.)
>
> And here's a letter complaining, I suspect, about the same thing you
> have:
> https://firewoodhoardersclub.com/forums/threads/ladder-failure-bad-customer-service-from-company.27096/
> He says that Werner says "do not have a written warranty on their
> products. However, we do stand behind the quality of our products" but
> when I google the words between the quotes and the word werner, I get
> some hits but the first two don't have the words that google search said
> they do, unless it's on a later connected page. The HD pages has 7 pages
> of 306 questions and I only looked at page 1. I didn't look further.

Thank you for confirming the wording from Werner is there is no WRITTEN
warranty. She never said the word warranty without putting WRITTEN in front
of it. It's like it's a conspiracy or something. :)

> To learn more about the warranty for the purpose intended, check out
> https://www.google.com/search?q=warranty+for+intended+purpose
> They can be express or implied and IIUC what I was talking about the
> implied kind as a creature of the common law. And Werner won't give an
> express warranty.
>
> Ah, I remember. The problem is that ladders are involved in so many
> accidents. 40 or 50% of the cost of the ladder is for legal fees ladder
> companies are forced to expend, so I'm pretty sure that's why there is
> no express warranty (except from Gorilla, but maybe that company started
> making ladders after some change in negligence law wrt ladders).
>
> There is also a warranty of merchantability, but that applies only iiuc
> at the time of sale.
>
> Also,
> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ucc+warranty+fitness
>
> https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-ucc-sales-contract-warranties.html
>
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315

Thanks for all that information. I guess it's kind of like asking for a
warranty on a parachute. Or on a grenade. Or a titan submersible sub.

[Ed P]

I'm not a lawyer but there is an implied warranty the product is fit for
use as intended. When you bought it, seems it was fit for use.

Now, you fucked up, damaged it, and expect someone else to make good on
it. Just take responsibility for your actions and move on. You could
ask your mommy to bail you out though.

[Wally J]

Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote

> I'm not a lawyer but there is an implied warranty the product is fit for
> use as intended. When you bought it, seems it was fit for use.

All I was asking here is if anyone had any experience with Werner.
Nobody did.

People had experience with other companies.
But nobody had any experience with Werner.

So I supplied that experience. For you. To make you better. Smarter too.
Someone else (micky?) also found out independently what I had found out.

That's how Usenet should work. People purposefully helping each other.

> Now, you fucked up, damaged it, and expect someone else to make good on
> it. Just take responsibility for your actions and move on. You could
> ask your mommy to bail you out though.

I didn't respond to the juvenile respond of BobF who cried like a small
baby whose mother's teat was pulled from his mouth by me asking a question.

Your infantile response is no different.

Given you didn't understand a word that was said in this thread, I won't be
able to explain to you what you very obviously do not have the capacity to
comprehend.

May I ask if you & BobF dropped out of school at, oh, about the 8th grade?

Maybe even the 6th grade given neither one of you understood that I was
upfront the entire time about EXACTLY what happened to the ladders.

That you missed that means very obviously you don't own adult cognition.
Everyone else understood that. Only you didn't. And that other juvenile.

Everyone else understood that I wast truthful to you and to Werner.
I was simply asking a question.

You seem to have your panties all twisted up because you don't like the
question so you (and BobF) manufactured a strawman that fit your narrative.

I'm sure you voted for Trump.
And that you believe the earth is flat too.

[Ed P]

Dropped out if 5th grade. Already knew everything I wanted to know.
Like you fucked up and are asking for a freebie from the ladder company.

Funny, you accuse me of voting for Trump while all the MAGA heads think
I'm a democrat.

Of course the earth is flat. It it wasn't, the water would run off.

One thing I learned by fifth grade that you did not, there are
consequences for your actions and to take personal responsibility for
them. Didn't need no skoolin after that.

Hope you had a good time writing your post. Show it to your family so
you can brag what a smart man you are.

[Wally J]

Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote

> Show it to your family so you can brag what a smart man you are.

When people are as uneducated as you are, everyone seems to be bragging.
Simply because they understand the question but you never can do that.

I asked an honest question to get an answer which turned out nobody knew
(but some people did offer up helpful suggestions about similar issues).

Unfortunately you didn't have anything to offer up but endless screams.

All you did was cry like a baby girl that you didn't like the question.
Same with BobF who whined about not being able to comprehend the question.

Both of you should consider suicide to improve the populations' gene pool.

However, in lieu of suicide (which I admit, is a drastic solution to the
problem of you being an uneducated moron) maybe you just shouldn't post
when you can't even understand the question & you have nothing to offer?

[Ed P]

Sorry, did the opposite. For years I've been a sperm donor and have
fathered over 100 babies. Doing my part for the gene pool.

As for the honest question, your honesty is questionable. Your
incompetence caused the problem and you want a free bailout. Great
ethics you are teaching.

[Harry H]

On 7/5/23 07:58, Ed P wrote:

[snip]

> Sorry, did the opposite.  For years I've been a sperm donor and have
> fathered over 100 babies.  Doing my part for the gene pool.

And for global warming.

[Wally J]

Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote

> As for the honest question, your honesty is questionable. Your
> incompetence caused the problem and you want a free bailout. Great
> ethics you are teaching.

It's interesting how desperate you are to fabricate a strawman for why you
didn't understand the question, and why when you did - you hated it.

You are making excuses for why you screamed and whined and cried like a
baby girl just because a question was asked that you didn't want asked.

And that you had no useful helpful input to add - so you cried instead.
Like a little baby girl does when her mamma's teat is pulled from her.

[Ed P]

Do you masturbate while typing this drivel? I bet you get a really good
erection from it. Lube your hand so it doesn't chafe your dick from the
workout you give it.
When you go back to school, what grade will you be in? I bet you are
big enough to start high school.

[Wally J]

Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote

> Do you masturbate while typing this drivel? I bet you get a really good
> erection from it. Lube your hand so it doesn't chafe your dick from the
> workout you give it.
> When you go back to school, what grade will you be in? I bet you are
> big enough to start high school.

Think about your lack of education.

Think about your lack of knowledge.

Think about your lack of helpful intent.

Think about how you can't possibly add any topical value to any topic.

Then ask yourself why you still post proving me right in saying all that.