Info on Pex lawsuits
DGDevin
of it but it turns out they had a little bit of a problem and there are a
stack of lawsuits working their way through various court systems.
"Zurn Stops Selling Brass Pex Fittings
After selling approximately 200 million brass fittings for its pex systems,
Zurn stopped selling brass fittings in May 2010. It will now sell only
plastic fittings for pex systems.
We believe Zurn’s withdrawal of the brass fittings from the market is strong
evidence that the brass fittings are defective."
Bob F
I'm glad I used copper. I never did trust the judgements of others that PEX was
the only way to go these days. Especially after the earlier plastic pipe
problems.
Oren
I mentioned ZURN yesterday in the other thread. They took a beating
in Las Vegas for bad connectors.
If people are REALLY worried about brass connectors - try SharkBite
fittings. Cost more, obviously.
Personally I would not trust "plastic fittings". How would that work
when they are crimped on the PEX. Depends on the type of crimps I
guess.
The fewer connectors used reduces chances of leaks. My manifold system
has no angle stop valves... Water for each feature is turned off at
the manifold (single story home). Everything is plastic (PEX pipe) and
O-rings at the manifold.
(Me no worry)
Pete C.
The PEX tubing is well proven, and the use of PEX in it's long flexible
rolls greatly reduces the number of joints spread around, particular if
you use a home run to manifold setup. It seems that there are some
issues with this particular brand of fitting, but there are a number of
different brands to choose from. I wouldn't hesitate to use PEX, and
indeed when I build a new house in the next year or two, I plan to use
PEX. I will however research carefully to decide which brand of PEX to
use.
Oren
wrote:
>> I'm glad I used copper. I never did trust the judgements of others that PEX was
>> the only way to go these days. Especially after the earlier plastic pipe
>> problems.
>
>The PEX tubing is well proven, and the use of PEX in it's long flexible
>rolls greatly reduces the number of joints spread around, particular if
>you use a home run to manifold setup. It seems that there are some
>issues with this particular brand of fitting, but there are a number of
>different brands to choose from. I wouldn't hesitate to use PEX, and
>indeed when I build a new house in the next year or two, I plan to use
>PEX. I will however research carefully to decide which brand of PEX to
>use.
Some localities may not allow PEX by code. That is changing I suppose.
Newer types of manifolds are now made using copper that have the PEX
expanded, instead of my old fashion type.
PDF:
Install instructions for my type of system:
<http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/manuals/vanguardmanablock_manual.pdf>
I'll never go back to copper unless I buy a house with it :-/
Pete C.
Where I will be building, there is no code, permits or inspections.
Ed Pawlowski
"DGDevin" <DGD...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:a6GdnQE0DsqBU7zT...@earthlink.com...
Nah, they stopped selling them because they bring lawsuits. Right or wrong,
lawyers will jump on the wagon and sue.
John Gilmer
Not so.
Most lawyers only go to court when they think they have a good chance of
winning. A lawyer will literally put his career and livelihood on the
line when he files suits in which his best hope is that the defense will
settle just to minimize trouble. It's done but the lawyer is taking a
genuine risk.
It appears from the pictures I saw on http://zurnclassaction.com/ that
the brass fittings are faulty both from a "stress riser" (sharp edges)
and a heat treating/alloy choice view. IOW: the tend to snap off
under the crimp. The lawyers didn't make that up, it really happened.
One's "gut feeling" is always that brass is better than plastic but in
both cases you have to throw some engineering R&D into it. It could be
that the PEX folks figured that brass was overkill so the engineers
didn't do much analysis or testing of the design.
Oops!
Oren
>>We believe Zurn�s withdrawal of the brass fittings from the market is strong
>>evidence that the brass fittings are defective."
>
>I would not use Pex for anything in my home. The stuff is little
>more than using a garden hose to supply water to a fixture. Just
>another way to rip people off of their money. The stuff was
>originally made for trailer houses, and those things always use the
>cheapest junk allowed.
>
You're misinformed.
>The part that gets me is that they blame the brass. The brass parts
>are the only part of the system that's worth anything. Brass valves
>and fittings have been used for many years and were always good. Of
>course these brass fittings are probably more shit "made in China".
>
It was to much zinc in the brass. Ever had a recall on a product? Huh?
>Either way, Pex is a joke. It's not plumbing, it's just a temporary
>means to provide water. Hell, when I replumbed some houses, I'd run a
>garden hose from the meter to the toilet until I completed the job
>(normally 2 or 3 days). It worked fine, but was only a temporary
>thing. Anyone who considers Pex to be *real* plumbing is a moron.
Why is PEX being used for many applications? Bottom line don't use PEX
until you read, learn and *USE* PEX.
What a maroon.
Home Guy
> > I would not use Pex for anything in my home.
>
> You're misinformed.
This thread mentions two different types (?) of pex:
http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/t13509/
Wirsbo? Rehau? Pex? Fostapex?
"I personally have been useing Fostapex for the longest
time. The big thing for me is that when the lines become
heated up they stay nice and ridgid instead sagging
like the worsboro"
They also mention that rodents like to chew on PEX, but there's some
confusion or disagreement as to whether the rodents like (or stay away
from) the clear or colored PEX.
From this thread:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f9/pex-copper-3646/ (circa 2005)
"I have seen catastrophic failure of polyethelene when
exposed to certain chemicals. The tube walls were so
weak that they would crumble with the slightest finger
pressure, cleaning solutions or something else stored
under the sink was the suspected cause. Copper has
been around for ages and gets my vote."
"I do several rehabs of my own each year. All of them
have been refitted with PEX for speed of installation
mainly. These are either flips or rentals. I don't
care how long it lasts, because I won't own them
long enough to find out."
"if you are looking for good looks and repairable in
the future with parts obtained from your local hadware
store, then go with copper. If you are looking for
speed and are not too concerened with looks, as pex is
inpossable to keep neet then go with it. However if
you do intend to do any repairs and or upgrades to this
system, you may have a problem with getting parts and
tools to make such repairs, as if you are not certified
to install most supply houses will not sell to you.
Also even the simple expation tool used for the
installation is about $300.00, add that to your
shopping cart as well."
"One last thing pex is quiter, you get hot water faster
to the fixture, and the pipe will be around for ever."
======================
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/zurn-pex-plumbing/zurn-pex-time-bomb-behind-walls-10673.html
Few in the industry, including plumbers, have anything bad to say about
the actual PEX pipe, which is a flexible and less expensive alternative
to far more expensive copper products. The flexibility is a godsend,
given the prior requirement to accomplish literally hundreds of cuts and
joins in a typical structure, while working with a rigid product like
copper. PEX, in contrast, can be easily threaded and dramatically cuts
down on installation time, as well as cost. PEX is also thought to be a
worthy improvement on the problem-prone polybutylene piping.
The problem, is when the hardy PEX pipe is joined: the latter is
accomplished by a brass fitting, which has been known to fail thanks to
a process known as dezincification, which is a corrosion of the brass.
======================
Oren
>
>The problem, is when the hardy PEX pipe is joined: the latter is
>accomplished by a brass fitting, which has been known to fail thanks to
>a process known as dezincification, which is a corrosion of the brass.
So use fittings with less zinc ( 5% to 10% ), not fittings with 30%
zinc. Even better is using fewer fittings.
Vic Smith
>Oren wrote:
>
>> > I would not use Pex for anything in my home.
>>
>> You're misinformed.
>
>This thread mentions two different types (?) of pex:
>
>http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/t13509/
>
>Wirsbo? Rehau? Pex? Fostapex?
>
> "I personally have been useing Fostapex for the longest
> time. The big thing for me is that when the lines become
> heated up they stay nice and ridgid instead sagging
> like the worsboro"
>
>
>They also mention that rodents like to chew on PEX, but there's some
>confusion or disagreement as to whether the rodents like (or stay away
>from) the clear or colored PEX.
>
>From this thread:
>
>http://www.contractortalk.com/f9/pex-copper-3646/ (circa 2005)
>
> "I have seen catastrophic failure of polyethelene when
> exposed to certain chemicals. The tube walls were so
> weak that they would crumble with the slightest finger
> pressure, cleaning solutions or something else stored
> under the sink was the suspected cause. Copper has
> been around for ages and gets my vote."
>
All the above problems with PEX can be easily avoided by running them
inside galvanized pipe.
Be sure to pull the PEX out before cranking on the last galvanized
connection, so it doesn't obstruct water flow.
--Vic
Oren
Sounds like an expensive waste of galvanized pipe.
gregz
I'm thinking of using pex. What I did try, and never again use, plastic ice
maker tubing. The fitting can't possibly hold right. Lucky I was there. A
plumber told me his basement got flooded.
Greg