Manhattan electrical substation explosion

[Oren]

Video:

<http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950738001/manhattan-electrical-substation-explosion-caught-on-video/?playlist_id=86909>

[harry]

On Oct 30, 6:48 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Video:
>
> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950...>

It was all on TV over here.
I suppose the main problem will be home heating/cooking at this time
of year.
Unless people were prepared with camping style equipment.

Especially if the power cut lasts for weeks.

Can't see them fixing the subway in less than weeks.

[micky]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:58:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Oct 30, 6:48 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> Video:
>>
>> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950...>
>
>It was all on TV over here.
>I suppose the main problem will be home heating/cooking at this time
>of year.
>Unless people were prepared with camping style equipment.

I have a propane heater meant for camping, but the warnings about
opening the window to prevent CO death are so strong, the window ended
up bringing in more cold than the heater made heat.

Didn't know what to do.

[bud--]

On 10/30/2012 12:48 PM, Oren wrote:
> Video:
>
> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950738001/manhattan-electrical-substation-explosion-caught-on-video/?playlist_id=86909>

If anyone sees information on what actually happened a link would be
appreciated.

[micky]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:58:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
<harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Oct 30, 6:48 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> Video:
>>
>> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950...>
>
>It was all on TV over here.
>I suppose the main problem will be home heating/cooking at this time
>of year.
>Unless people were prepared with camping style equipment.

I have a propane heater meant for camping, but the warnings about
opening the window to prevent CO death are so strong, the window ended
up bringing in more cold than the heater made heat.

Didn't know what to do.

[dpb]

On 10/31/2012 12:41 PM, bud-- wrote:
> On 10/30/2012 12:48 PM, Oren wrote:
>> Video:
>>

...

>
> If anyone sees information on what actually happened a link would be
> appreciated.

Don't know as ConEd has had time to worry about the "why" yet but it was
a transformer explosion. Possible causes are water penetration caused
an internal insulation failure or it's possible wind caused a load short
that overloaded it. If had to guess I'd expect the latter probably.

Transformer failures of such a sort are a common event during tornadoes
out here--it's one of the easiest ways to see progress across a
developed area after dark, often, in fact by watching the chain of
transformer flashes.

There it generally is that the high wind causes load-carrying line
phases to touch and the result is a rapid overload subsequent
transformer failure. The difference here is that this was a substation
large transformer instead of line pole-mounted one so when the
substation went, so did a large area...

--

[harry]

On Oct 31, 4:07 pm, micky <NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:58:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
>

> <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 30, 6:48 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >> Video:
>
> >> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950...>
>
> >It was all on TV over here.
> >I suppose the main problem will be home heating/cooking at this time
> >of year.
> >Unless people were prepared with camping style equipment.
>
> I have a propane heater meant for camping, but the warnings about
> opening the window to prevent CO death are so strong, the window ended
> up bringing in more cold than the heater made heat.
>
> Didn't know what to do.
>

Try and get a carbon monoxide alarm if it's not too late. Others will
have thought of this.
Your probably OK just to cook food but not to leave permanently on.

[Frank]

Any CO would be unsubstantial. If you cook with gas, you have the same
problem.

A friends hunting camp got unvented natural gas heaters after those that
bought the mineral rights to his property put in gas wells and gave him
gas for free. Scared the hell out of me but they have CO and low O2
detectors to shut off if there is a problem. We survived a week using them.

[NotMe]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:hoi298hup38ls07u1...@4ax.com...

Look into Monitor heater. They run on LPG, NG/ heating oil and kerosene. ~
90-95% efferent and no inside combustion gas venting.

Note some require a low power 120 VAC. Good idea to have an anual PMI but
will run for years without.

[DerbyDad03]

On Oct 30, 2:48 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Video:
>
> <http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950...>

When we had an Ice Storm a few years back, the pole transformer across
the street from my house blew up. Nothing as big as in that video, but
SWMBO and I happened to be looking out of the window at the time and
saw it start to spark and arc until it blew. My power was already out
because a limb had taken the wires out a few hours earlier.

Before the utility contractors came around, I cleared all the branches
off of my wires and laid the wires on top of a 5 foot board-on-board
fence, between the pickets, basically making them as safe as possible.
I was home when they came by, pointed out what I had done and the boss
said it was OK to hook me up. My neighbors on both sides had done
nothing to clear their wires and the contractors didn't hook them up
for a few more days, after a different crew had a chance to get the
branches off of the wires.

I was a little surprised that they even hooked me up with the wires
lying on top of the fence and within reach of your typical human
being, but they did and I was glad. I can't remember how long it was
before I got an electrician to reattach the wires to the house, but it
was at least a week.

[Home Guy]

bud-- wrote:

> If anyone sees information on what actually happened a link would be
> appreciated.

What happens is that those god damn stupid ass fools that run the power
company made a decision to NOT cut power to major distribution /
step-down transformers. And because they didn't cut the power, they set
up the situation whereby those transformers and other gear was allowed
to fry itself into a giant fireball when the flood waters, lightning,
wind (etc) dammaged the physical plant that they feed into.

Same goes for not cutting off major natural-gas valves.

In Hoboken, a hundred homes burned to their foundations because of some
sort of massive file.

Tell me - how the hell do you get a fire going (and keep it going)
during a massive rain-drenched hurricane?

Maybe if you're dumb enough to keep feeding it with natural gas and live
electricity?

[harry]

They must have a very poor level of protection over there.
You never hear of transformers blowing up over here.
The power just goes off. They clear the fault (branches whatever) and
switch back on.

[HeyBub]

Oren wrote:
> Video:
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html#/v/1933950738001/manhattan-electrical-substation-explosion-caught-on-video/?playlist_id=86909

It may even be worse.

The transformers at large sub-stations are one-offers. That is, they are
specifically made for the requirements of the specific sub-station - there
are no spares. Each transformer, moreover, can take up to two years from
design to delivery.

Someone once computed that taking out ten or so of these lightly secured,
big transformers, say by a terrorist group, could really screw up the
network grid in a fairly large area.

[Fred]

"bud--" <remove....@isp.com> wrote in message news:5091554c$0$60749$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com...

Trees and large branches falling on the powerlines causes short circuits...which damage transformers.

Maybe someday we'll figure out not to plant trees near the lines.

[The Daring Dufas]

Nonferrous metal thieves have been known to go after isolated electrical
substations with the expected results of someone
stupid enough target them. ^_^

TDD

[Home Guy]

HeyBub wrote:

> It may even be worse.
>
> The transformers at large sub-stations are one-offers. That is, they
> are specifically made for the requirements of the specific sub-
> station - there are no spares. Each transformer, moreover, can take
> up to two years from design to delivery.

Why didn't they de-energize them *before* they dammaged themselves by
blowing up?

Why didn't they de-energize the system an hour or so before the main
brunt of the hurricane came ashore?

Stupid asses.

[dpb]

On 11/1/2012 8:23 AM, Home Guy wrote:
...

> Why didn't they de-energize the system an hour or so before the main
> brunt of the hurricane came ashore?

Amongst other reasons because the system is tied to a much larger one
and there are many reasons to try to keep power as long as possible to
as much of the service area as possible...

Presicence of which particular substation transformer might fail isn't
yet built in.

> Stupid asses.

This poster here is the only one of those I see in the thread... :(

--

[Harry K]

It starts INSIDE where it is dry you effing moron! ONce started in
dthat wind is all it takes.

Harry K

[Oren]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:11:32 -0500, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

>On 11/1/2012 8:23 AM, Home Guy wrote:
>...
>
>> Why didn't they de-energize the system an hour or so before the main
>> brunt of the hurricane came ashore?
>
>Amongst other reasons because the system is tied to a much larger one
>and there are many reasons to try to keep power as long as possible to
>as much of the service area as possible...
>
>Presicence of which particular substation transformer might fail isn't
>yet built in.
>

I see in NYC a nuke plant started to shut down (as intended) because
it could not send power to the grid.

Would this one loss in Manhattan have any bearing on this?

>> Stupid asses.
>
>This poster here is the only one of those I see in the thread... :(

That poster can't believe HVAC components are it attics. She should
get out more.