Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Wind turbines used to absorb a power surplus?

262 views
Skip to first unread message

Commander Kinsey

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 5:39:11 AM3/18/23
to
An electrician (who I don't believe) told me if there's too much power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is this really true? Aren't there plenty of power stations they can just turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax. Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building new wind farms?

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 6:50:05 AM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
> meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
ball park figure.

It's always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me :)

And in the UK that comes from green tax.
> Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
> new wind farms?

Shouldn't that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 6:57:31 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054...@4ax.com>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78...@googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.2...@fx10.am4>

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g2...@4ax.com>

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist."
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99...@4ax.com>

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3F...@giganews.com>

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID: <obru31$nao$3...@dont-email.me>

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4...@googlegroups.com>

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "Commander Kinsey LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID: <op.yy3c0...@dell3100.workgroup>

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1...@dont-email.me>

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300...@news.eternal-september.org>

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7E...@brightview.co.uk>

--
thekma...@gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031...@googlegroups.com>

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "Commander
Kinsey" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID: <59d8b0db...@news.eternal-september.org>

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID: <orree6$on2$1...@dont-email.me>

--
Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

--
cl...@snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabteheh...@4ax.com>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1...@dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c...@googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2...@dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone
MID: <slrnq16c27....@jaka.local>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:02:28 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:49:57 +0000, anal_m, the notorious troll-feeding
senile retard, blathered again:


> Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
> ball park figure.

And the first troll-feeding senile asshole, anal_m himself, appeared to feed
the abnormal trolling swine again! <BG>

--
Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL) baiting the senile assholes in these
groups:
"Having read the utter bullshit about dying if you fall in a freezing lake
for 15 minutes, I've tried it on many occasions. It takes 30 minutes to
even get chattering teeth, an hour to shiver nicely, and 2 hours to shiver
hard."
MID: <op.yvpol...@red.lan>

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:11:01 AM3/18/23
to
Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It's your enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn't it fears you might get
rid of it.


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin


Sylvia Else

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:18:01 AM3/18/23
to
Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it's designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

Sylvia.

Frank

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:23:16 AM3/18/23
to
Does not make any sense. I think it is done with hydroelectric where
water is pumped back up at night when usage is down but what do you do,
pump back wind?

Davey

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:28:30 AM3/18/23
to

SteveW

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:29:29 AM3/18/23
to
That idea has probably come from the use of "barring gear". When not in
use, some wind turbines are electrically driven and turn slowly, to
prevent semi-permanent sagging of blades or shafts when left stationary
in one position.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:39:12 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
> willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing output.

And the second retarded troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE appeared and willingly
fed the attention-starved trolling Scottish swine!

--
Birdbrain (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL) baiting the senile assholes in these
groups:

"However I do like to make fun of people. For example, a professor once
told a secretary off for having a topless male model as the wallpaper on her
computer. So I told her he was a hypocrite, and that he had pictures of
transvestites on his (not as wallpaper, but stored on the hard disk). She
spread that around quite quickly."
MID: <op.y4l80...@red.lan>

upsid...@downunder.com

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:39:31 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
<C...@nospam.com> wrote:

>An electrician (who I don't believe) told me if there's too much power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is this really true? Aren't there plenty of power stations they can just turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares :-).

In practice, district heating companies are installing electrically
heated boilers to heat district heating water when there is an
overproduction of wind energy and hence the selectivity price drops
towards zero, thus saving on coal/oil/gas/biofuel during
overproduction.

In areas with mainly cooling loads, wind and solar overproduction can
be used to cool water in advance for air conditioning.

The problem with renewable overproduction is not a big issue, but
underproduction lasting several days is. IMHO oil/gas should be used
to address those periods when renewables are not available, but
greenies object also to this.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:42:39 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 07:23:09 -0400, REAL dumb Frankie Boi, the notorious
troll-feeding senile asshole and Trumptard, blathered again:


> Does not make any sense.

NOTHING makes sense with that trolling swine, gay wanker and attention
whore, just like NOTHING makes sense with your notorious troll-feeding, you
troll-feeding senile Trumptard!

--
More details from Birdbrain's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL) sociopathic
"mind":

"If I wanted you to stab me with a knife and kill me, you should not
get into trouble for it".
"I would kill my sister if I thought I'd get away with it".
"I'm not what most people think of as human".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:54:47 AM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 11:17, Sylvia Else wrote:

> On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

How do you think a wind farm works when there is no wind? For 50% of the
windmills you turn on the fan mode so the rest of them can generate
electricity. It's the perfect perpetual motion scheme on a gigantic scale.

Jeff Gaines

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 7:56:24 AM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 in message <tv467v$2f79h$1...@dont-email.me> The Natural
Philosopher wrote:

>>Shouldn't that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
>>It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.
>>
>Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
>feed in tarriffs.
>
>Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
>you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It's your enemy, and
>wants to be your master. Because if it isn't it fears you might get rid of
>it.

Are you an American? It's that sort of argument that makes them feel they
need guns to defend themselves from government (and as a penis substitute
of course).

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Though no-one can go back and make a new start, everyone can start from
now and make a new ending.

Dean Hoffman

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 8:02:06 AM3/18/23
to
On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 4:39:11 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> An electrician (who I don't believe) told me if there's too much power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is this really true? Aren't there plenty of power stations they can just turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?
>
> I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax. Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building new wind farms?

The ones I see sometimes pivot so the blades are parallel with the wind shutting them down. It seem to be the same action as when the winds are too strong.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 8:04:54 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 13:39:21 +0200, upsid...@downunder.com, another
mentally challenged troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
> some wind turbines.

How about YOU stopping feeding the attention-starved trolling wanker, you
idiotic troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE?

--
More from Birdbrain's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL) sociopathic "mind":
"Why do people get upset about getting punched on the nose? It's only as bad
as falling off your bike."
MID: <op.ymrl1...@red.lan>

Brian Gaff

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 8:10:52 AM3/18/23
to
I think this highly unlikely. I think turning down is not so easy, since it
is AC, and has to respond to sudden loads. What should happen is that the
loading on most systems will reduce as the generator is easier to turn, but
the frequency remains the same. I do not know what method is used these days
as governors. I'm sure its probably highly technical and not two weights and
a brake as it used to be on wind up gramophones!
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:op.11zw3...@ryzen.home...

Brian Gaff

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 8:14:56 AM3/18/23
to
I think when you look at the cost of the meter and the labour costs these
days, then nothing is cheap, that is why even minor prangs of you car can
write it off as its the labour and inflated cost of parts. So many people
buy it and get it fixed instead, probably by a mate at a faction of the
costs the insurance will be charged.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:tv467v$2f79h$1...@dont-email.me...

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 10:33:37 AM3/18/23
to
Yes, they need a different kind of inverter, way more expensive, to do that.

> On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

On the other hand, any synchronous generator (without electronics) runs
as a motor if the voltage on the output rises (constant speed, though).
I don't suppose they like that on hydro places, could do damage.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

micky

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:02:09 AM3/18/23
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, "Commander
Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

>An electrician (who I don't believe) told me if there's too much power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is this really true?

Sure. YOu know how people with solar cells sell their electricity back
to the power company, when they don't need to use it all. In the same
way, when there is too much electricity, it's sent to wind turbines, and
they spin backwards and they blow the wind back where it came from. So
that later, it will blow in the first direction again when more
electricity is needed.

> Aren't there plenty of power stations they can just turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?
>
>I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax. Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building new wind farms?

They don't need more wind farms because if too much wind is blown
backwards, the seasons will change.

It takes under an hour to change the meter, maybe under 15 minutes, and
I would guess the cost of a smart meter is under 200 pounds. At least
the marginal cost. In this situation, every cost estimator seems to
come up with a price higher than to be expected. Not sure how they do
it.

Having a smart meter means they no longer have to send meter readers, so
that saves a lot of money in the long run. They can arrange for rolling
black outs if that is ever needed in the UK, and they can do time-of-day
billing, to encourage people to dry their clothes outside of the
electrical rush hour.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:23:41 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 05:02:03 -0700 (PDT), Dean Dumb Hoffman, another
mentally deficient, troll-feeding, senile ASSHOLE, babbled again:


> The ones I see sometimes pivot so the blades are parallel with the wind
> shutting them down. It seem to be the same action as when the winds are
> too strong.

You demented troll-feeding senile shithead don't seem to mind the wind of
the troll blowing in your face. Quite to the contrary, you obviously enjoy
inhaling it. <BG>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:29:01 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:10:40 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the TV-watching and
pity-baiting senile "blind" mole, blathered again:

> I think this highly unlikely. I think turning down is not so easy, since it
> is AC, and has to respond to sudden loads. What should happen is that the
> loading on most systems will reduce as the generator is easier to turn, but
> the frequency remains the same. I do not know what method is used these days
> as governors. I'm sure its probably highly technical and not two weights and
> a brake as it used to be on wind up gramophones!
> Brainless & Daft

YOU again, you useless, endlessly bullshitting, troll-feeding senile PEST?
You DISGUST me! But you are lucky that most people really keep pitying you!
<BG>

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:31:37 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:49:57 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
>> meters into each home.
>
>Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
>ball park figure.
>
>It's always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
>every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years. I
>had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
>routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
>turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
>appointment that suited me :)
>
> And in the UK that comes from green tax.
>> Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
>> new wind farms?

Windmills will still be useless when there's no wind. Pity that
there's no good way to store electricity.

>
>Shouldn't that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
>It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Smart meters eliminated meter reader people too. Reading a meter could
be a real hassle in many situations. Some utilities only did it a few
times a year and interpolated/extrapolated the monthly bills. At our
cabin in the mountains, the old meters were buried in snow for months.
Now I can ask for a realtime graph of power or gas or water use; we
spotted a water leak that way.

We do get free LED bulbs and Christmas lights from TDPUD!

The long feeder from the street came down, and they fixed that for
free too.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6s7l66iq9xy9nt/Fascia_2.jpg?raw=1



John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:33:45 AM3/18/23
to
Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 11:37:17 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:14:45 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

> I think

Don't, you disgusting, endlessly blathering senile twit! Nothing good will
come of it!

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:01:10 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:02:02 -0400, micky mouse, the absolutely idiotic,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile ASSHOLE, blathered again:


> Sure.

Surely, he is a trolling piece of shit and you are a troll-feeding senile
piece of shit, micky mouse!

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:23:14 PM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 15:31, John Larkin wrote:

> We do get free LED bulbs and Christmas lights from TDPUD!

No you don't. The only way they reach you from the money you pay either
by a company overcharging or from taxation :)

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:31:28 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
wrote:
If a steam plant makes too much power until it can throttle down, and
nobody wants the power, why not dump steam into the condenser?

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:38:32 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:29:24 +0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:
Steam turbines on ships (now mostly diesels) engaged a "turning gear"
electric motor to slowly rotate things so a hot turbine shaft wouldn't
sag.

Steam ships used cheap fuel, basically street paving quality gunk, but
were so complex that it was hard to find crews to keep them running.
Diesels are much simpler.

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:42:02 PM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 15:02, micky wrote:

> Having a smart meter means they no longer have to send meter readers, so
> that saves a lot of money in the long run.

Using your argument about 15 minutes for a smart meter installation per
house not costing a lot the 30 seconds to read a meter once every 12
months means that the payback time for just the labour is more more than
30 years. If the meter takes 1 hour to install the saving payback time
for not having a meter reader is 120 years :)

A gas meter will need a new battery in 10 years, or less

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:45:23 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:28:24 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
wrote:
"Up to days at a time".

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 12:54:25 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
wrote:

> On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> An electrician (who I don't believe) told me if there's too much power
>> on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is
>> this really true? Aren't there plenty of power stations they can just
>> turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?
>> I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
>> meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
>> Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
>> new wind farms?
>
> Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
> willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
> output.

The UK has very litttle coal fired power generation anymore.

And the gas fired power generation is easy to modulate.

> So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible.

Fraid so.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:00:22 PM3/18/23
to
alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

>> And in the UK that comes from green tax.

>> Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
>> new wind farms?

> Shouldn't that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.

> It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

And that is a completely insane thing to do, tax everyone,
pump that money thru the bureaucracy and staight back to
precisely the same people that it came from in the first place.

Only advantage is that in theory it forces people to have
CFL light bulbs which they would otherwise not bother
with and might see some use them given they are 'free'

We were never actually stupid enough to have a green tax
and our electricity suppliers did hand out free CFL light
bulbs. I ony ever used a couple of the dozens I got given.

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:01:44 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:23:07 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 18/03/2023 15:31, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> We do get free LED bulbs and Christmas lights from TDPUD!
>
>No you don't. The only way they reach you from the money you pay either
>by a company overcharging or from taxation :)

The LEDs save energy so make everyone's costs go down.

We only have a few incandescents left. Either old, very rarely used
bulbs, or one small incandescent on a string of LEDs to make them dim
properly. Some "dimmable" LEDs and some dimmers don't work together.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:09:34 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:56:18 +1100, Jeff Gaines <jgne...@outlook.com>
wrote:

> On 18/03/2023 in message <tv467v$2f79h$1...@dont-email.me> The Natural
> Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> Shouldn't that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
>>> It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.
>>>
>> Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
>> feed in tarriffs.
>>
>> Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
>> you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It's your enemy,
>> and wants to be your master. Because if it isn't it fears you might get
>> rid of it.

> Are you an American?

Nope, a senile rabid pom.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:09:43 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 03:54:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
David Plowman about senile Rodent Speed's trolling:
"Wodney is doing a lot of morphing these days. Must be even more desperate
than usual for attention."
MID: <59a60da...@davenoise.co.uk>

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:24:06 PM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 16:45, John Larkin wrote:

>>>
>>> Does not make any sense. I think it is done with hydroelectric where
>>> water is pumped back up at night when usage is down but what do you
>>> do, pump back wind?
>>
>> See:
>> https://www.energy-storage.news/delivering-pumped-hydro-storage-in-the-uk-after-a-three-decade-interlude/
>
> "Up to days at a time".
>

Yep, this 1,500 MW scheme will make up for the UK shortfall when the
wind doesn't blow. The difference for the UK wind between blowing and
not blowing is close to 15,000 MW so to just backup the existing
windmills we need 10 of these pumped storage facilities. When even more
windmills are built the shortfall when the wind is absent requires
perhaps 20 to 30 of these facilities. And what happens for when the wind
doesn't blow for 14 days and the pumped water head runs dry after a
couple of days?

This scheme probably only makes financial sense if we rely on windmills
where they can sell back the electricity at 10x the going rate when
there is no wind.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:25:16 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 02:31:25 +1100, John Larkin
<jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:49:57 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>> I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
>>> meters into each home.
>>
>> Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
>> ball park figure.
>>
>> It's always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
>> every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years. I
>> had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
>> routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
>> turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
>> appointment that suited me :)
>>
>> And in the UK that comes from green tax.
>>> Shouldn't that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
>>> new wind farms?
>
> Windmills will still be useless when there's no wind. Pity that
> there's no good way to store electricity.

There is, pumped hydro. Problem is that
the UK has fuck all suitable sites for that.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:34:46 PM3/18/23
to
alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
> micky wrote

>> Having a smart meter means they no longer have to send meter readers, so
>> that saves a lot of money in the long run.

> Using your argument about 15 minutes for a smart meter installation per
> house not costing a lot the 30 seconds to read a meter once every 12
> months

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds to
read.

> means that the payback time for just the labour is more more than 30
> years.

5 years is more realistic.

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:39:00 PM3/18/23
to
On 18/03/2023 17:01, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:23:07 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 18/03/2023 15:31, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> We do get free LED bulbs and Christmas lights from TDPUD!
>>
>> No you don't. The only way they reach you from the money you pay either
>> by a company overcharging or from taxation :)
>
> The LEDs save energy so make everyone's costs go down.

But you probably would have got the bulbs cheaper by purchasing them
yourself rather than overpaying on your bills and then being given some
of your own money back (via bulbs) minus an administration charge.

There was never "FREE" LED bulbs - you just paid for them in a
convoluted way.

>
> We only have a few incandescents left. Either old, very rarely used
> bulbs, or one small incandescent on a string of LEDs to make them dim
> properly. Some "dimmable" LEDs and some dimmers don't work together.

The only incandescent bulb I have is in the microwave, I have 2 CFL in
the loft and switched on perhaps twice a year for 10 minutes at a time,
all the rest are LED.

Cindy Hamilton

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:49:22 PM3/18/23
to
On 2023-03-18, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/03/2023 15:02, micky wrote:
>
>> Having a smart meter means they no longer have to send meter readers, so
>> that saves a lot of money in the long run.
>
> Using your argument about 15 minutes for a smart meter installation per
> house not costing a lot the 30 seconds to read a meter once every 12
> months

Prior to smart meters, ours were read once a month. The meter reader
had to trudge from house to house--they're about 40 meters apart on
my road, although it's twice that from my house to the one to the
south. Multiply that by 155 million customers in the U.S. It adds up.

> means that the payback time for just the labour is more more than
> 30 years. If the meter takes 1 hour to install the saving payback time
> for not having a meter reader is 120 years :)

There are other advantages for the consumer and for the power company.
I can find out what I'm drawing in much more detail, so I can see
how much it costs to run various appliances. The power company has
implemented time-of-day pricing, now that it has that information.

--
Cindy Hamilton

Tim+

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:50:46 PM3/18/23
to
alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The only incandescent bulb I have is in the microwave,

What kind of bulb do you have in your oven?

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:52:54 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:36:50 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 18/03/2023 17:01, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:23:07 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/03/2023 15:31, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> We do get free LED bulbs and Christmas lights from TDPUD!
>>>
>>> No you don't. The only way they reach you from the money you pay either
>>> by a company overcharging or from taxation :)
>>
>> The LEDs save energy so make everyone's costs go down.
>
>But you probably would have got the bulbs cheaper by purchasing them
>yourself rather than overpaying on your bills and then being given some
>of your own money back (via bulbs) minus an administration charge.

If I pick up a few free bulbs, I don't think my electric bill will go
up. Statistically, it probably goes down.


>
>There was never "FREE" LED bulbs - you just paid for them in a
>convoluted way.
>
>>
>> We only have a few incandescents left. Either old, very rarely used
>> bulbs, or one small incandescent on a string of LEDs to make them dim
>> properly. Some "dimmable" LEDs and some dimmers don't work together.
>
>The only incandescent bulb I have is in the microwave, I have 2 CFL in
>the loft and switched on perhaps twice a year for 10 minutes at a time,
>all the rest are LED.

CFLs fail when the electrolytic caps blow up, usually from turn-on
surge. Sometimes the tube fails.

John Larkin

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:58:29 PM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:23:59 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 18/03/2023 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> Does not make any sense. I think it is done with hydroelectric where
>>>> water is pumped back up at night when usage is down but what do you
>>>> do, pump back wind?
>>>
>>> See:
>>> https://www.energy-storage.news/delivering-pumped-hydro-storage-in-the-uk-after-a-three-decade-interlude/
>>
>> "Up to days at a time".
>>
>
>Yep, this 1,500 MW scheme will make up for the UK shortfall when the
>wind doesn't blow. The difference for the UK wind between blowing and
>not blowing is close to 15,000 MW so to just backup the existing
>windmills we need 10 of these pumped storage facilities. When even more
>windmills are built the shortfall when the wind is absent requires
>perhaps 20 to 30 of these facilities. And what happens for when the wind
>doesn't blow for 14 days and the pumped water head runs dry after a
>couple of days?

Elections.

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 1:59:37 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 04:09:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Bod addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 2:00:29 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 04:25:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant twat."
MID: <r5uoe4$1kqo$2...@gioia.aioe.org>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 2:01:06 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 04:00:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

Peeler

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 2:02:22 PM3/18/23
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 04:34:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
pamela about Rodent Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID: <XnsA90B720...@81.171.92.183>

Jack Harry Teesdale

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 2:12:58 PM3/18/23
to
There are probably thousands of CFL's in their original boxes stored in
cupboards in houses in the UK that have NEVER been used!

alan_m

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 2:35:32 PM3/18/23