Carpet smells after steam-clean
Leslie Fowler
Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house. The
previous owners did not have pets, and I don't think the original owners
did either. The living room has original carpeting (16 years). It was fine
prior to the cleaning but now it smells like cat pee! My father-in-law
suspects the foam underneath the carpet is disintegrating (aided by the
steam-clean) and is causing the smell. Any opinions on this or what we
should do to alleviate the smell? We didn't want to replace the carpet so
soon (we're thinking about putting in hardwood flooring a year or two from
now when we have some $ saved up for this). Thanks for any advice.
Leslie
lfo...@acm.vt.edu
pelmark
In article <6iplp4$8td$2...@dane.cslab.vt.edu>, Leslie Fowler
<lfo...@cowpie.acm.vt.edu> wrote:
> Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house.
The
> previous owners did not have pets, and I don't think the original
owners
> did either. The living room has original carpeting (16 years). It
was fine
> prior to the cleaning but now it smells like cat pee! My
father-in-law
> suspects the foam underneath the carpet is disintegrating (aided by
the
> steam-clean) and is causing the smell.
Horse feathers.
Urethane, or part rubber pad, like a waffle, does not smell like urine
as it disintegrates, and neither does steam cleaning produce the smell
of cat urine.
If it smells like cat urine, it *is* cat urine. "A rose is a rose..."
Oh, what a joy it is to be on the end of the *wand* when this
discovery is made. That pressurized hot water hits those dried urine
salts, and what *I* get is a face and snoot full of the nastiest,
raunchiest ammonia smell you can imagine.
It isn't the *fault* of the cleaning...cleaning does not *create* cat
urine. *Please* direct your anger at the *right* party: the cat and
the previous owners. I don't *care* if the previous owners did not
have a cat--a cat urinated in that house.
I once had an angry landlord yelling at me about how his tenant had
*no* animals, and certainly not a large dog, so it was *my* fault that
his carpet smelled like dog urine from a *large* dog as I said. It was
*new* carpet just six months ago, and she had no dog, you *idiot*, and
you owe me a new...
Just then tenant's boyfriend showed up, 140 lb Rotweiler in tow.
Howdy.
Or the woman who left her daughter in charge on summer break while she
traveled overseas, to return to have her carpets cleaned, while
daughter left for school. When the house smelled like cat urine, it
was *my* fault--Mom gets on the phone, to hear "Boots", daughter's new
kitty, meowing at her apartment at college.
Oh. Sorry.
First, you have to understand the *problem*. If it is a dog, or a cat.
Male or female. Males go to the perimeters and vertical surfaces (your
*new* sofa!); they raise their legs. Females will squat, so the
concentration is in the *middle* of the room, usually.
Next, dog or cat. Neither are "pleasant" but cat urine is a
particularly foul smell. Size of the animal is crucial; a large 80
pound dog is a *far* different problem than 2 lb toy poodle. For cats,
if the cat urinates 6 ozs per day for a year, that is 17 *gallons* of
urine...
When urine leaves an animal's body, it has a *host* of problems: it is
hot, body temperature, so it will rapidly affect dyes in some types of
fibers. Your wool Oriental is a classic. Next, that cat food is *dyed*
not for Fido, or Kitty...they can't *see* color..but for Mrs. Kitty,
so that those beef dinners are red, like real beef. Yum...yum. You
have pigments, dyes, urea, salts, acids, proteins, waste products,
water, etc. It is a warm, acidic, pigmented solution hitting a carpet
*dyed* with acid based dyes.
After a few days, or even hours, the urine starts drying and undergoes
a pH shift, from an acid to an alkaline. It now starts to smell like
ammonia. It offgases a foul odor from microbial activity. Gravity has
made it wick down, through the carpet, backing, into the latex glue
holding the primary backing and the secondary backing together, and it
still continues down, to the pad, usually a nice, large urethane
"sponge", where it goes from being a coffee cup saucer size on the
surface to a manhole cover in the pad. It is called "wicking"; SEE
"sponges".
From the pad, gravity calls it *again*...now it enters the subfloor.
It dries, and from the surface, a 6 inch circle, say, is now an
irregularly shaped four *foot* square, in which every surface is
contaminated with an acidic solution about to change to a smelly
decomposing alkaline *rotting* mess. It dries, and since it was only
once or twice, that you *know* about (in reality, the animal has been
urinating for three months), you don't smell it. It is summer, and the
house is closed, with air and dehumidifier keeping it cool and dry.
But one morning, you want to air out the house. You throw open the
doors and windows, and as the morning heats up to 90 degrees and 85%
RH (relative humidity), your nose suddenly twitches. What *is* that
smell? It smells like...cat urine! We don't even have a *cat*!
How do we smell? In the *presence* of *heat* and *moisture*. An ice
cube of cat urine will not be detectable. Put it on the counter, and
let it melt...
Or, your carpet cleaner comes in, and in doing a good job, he cranks
up the heat and water pressure, and starts flushing and rinsing your
carpet. As the wand head moves across the room, that hot water hits
those dried urine crystals on the carpet surface, and *BOOM*, that hot
water *instantly* activates the olfactory nerves. Heat and moisture.
So don't blame *ME* for actually doing what I am supposed to
do...clean your carpet. I don't ask to get a 180 degree humid cloud of
ammonia to my face. It is not *my* fault that a cat urinated on your
rug, okay? And cleaning it with steam does NOT cause urine odors.
What's the subfloor? Whether it is wood or concrete, you CANNOT clean
out dried urine salts. Let me repeat, as no ONE ever believes a guy
who does it for a living: you CANNOT clean out dried urine salts out
of wood (hard, but porous surface) or concrete (hard, but porous
surface).
You find the areas using a hydroprobe or hydrosensor, a device that
beeps in the presence of moisture (or dried *salts*) and with a black
(UV) light. IF the areas are small enough, you may be able to either
*inject* at the various levels (carpet, pad, subfloor) in a clock-like
circle around the urine, either a sealing agent which will bond to the
crystals, encapsulate them, and then PREVENT heat and moisture from
activating them. Works *well* in *small* areas...like one time deals.
Or, an enzyme may work, but enzymes are the most overly hyped, under
performing agents I have worked with. I have seen people dump
*gallons* of enzymes on urine areas so that they could delaminate the
carpet (cause the latex to dissolve, and the primary and secondary
backings separate...can you say handfuls of tufts?) while the urine
smell still remained. I have an Oriental rug in a *horse* tank right
now, with 100 gallons of water, and 4 gallons of enzyme, trying to rid
an $9000 rug of urine, and this is the *third* day of soaking. Your
carpet will not *last* 3 days, soaking, okay? Wool *will*. Maybe
tomorrow it will be done...but I *doubt* it.
What you have to probably do, is pull up the carpet, replace the pad
(because it is *soaked* with urine), even remove the tack strips (if
they are black and water stained, it has either gotten wet, or been
urinated on), then rinse the subfloor with an **acid** cleaner to
neutralize the **alkaline** urine crystals on the surface. Allow to
dry. Then *seal* the floor; since I *only* work on concrete subfloors
(I am in Florida), I use xylene sealers from either carpet cleaning
supply stores, janitorial supply, or tell your paint man you want a
*sealer* that will prevent *moisture* and it CANNOT be a silicone
based water seal, like Thompson's Water Seal. Xylene on concrete; I
roll it on with a roller on a broom handle, and don't forget a *real*
respirator with real cartridges so you don't kill yourself, okay?
The dried xylene will make the floor shiny, and glow like it is wet.
NOW...take the folded over carpet. Using a HydroForce pressurized
sprayer from a truck mount, spray the hell out of the back of the
urine stained carpet with an acid detergent/rinse solution. Extract.
Spray again. Rinse. Extract. Let it dry.
If you want to get *real* thorough, like I do, sprinkle the subfloor
with C-O-C, which is "crystal odor counteractant", available at the
carpet cleaner's supply store. Put down the new pad. Sprinkle with
COC. Put down the carpet. Power strecth and reinstall. Clean the
surface of the carpet. If the areas aren't real large, and you have
*thoroughly* cleaned the back and face of the carpet, replaced the
contaminated pad and tack strips, created an odor "barrier" with the
COC, and sealed *all* contaminated subfloor, and the walls and
baseboards are not contaminated, you are *through*.
Here's my rules: *If* you do *exactly* as I tell you to, and DO NOT
deviate one single tiny bit, I will 100% GUARANTEE you will NEVER
smell cat urine again, as LONG as the animal is NO longer in the home,
and 2) if 20% of the surface of the carpet is contaminated, measured
by using the UV light, and hydrosensor, then *everything* goes,
including carpet, because **60%** of the surface underneath it *is*
contaminated.
But you still *have* to seal the subfloor. If you don't, the animal is
not there, and you put in new carpet, even tile...HEAT and MOISTURE,
folks, HEAT and MOISTURE. Those dried salts will get wet from humid
air, and *now* your new hard wood floor is contaminated....
And for cripe's sake, quit *blaming* the cleaner for *your* problem,
even if the previous owners sold you a house full of cat urine. Steam
cleaning your carpet is not the *CAUSE*; urine IS. Tell you what: pull
up the carpet, and *look* at the backing. If you see large water
marks, irregular shaped circles and lines, *that* is the wick marks.
Let me put it to you this way: how would you like to discover this
after $7500 worth of wood installation you get to now tear up?
Because if you do not *SEAL* it, you will *SMELL* it, because a cat
*URINATED* on the floor.
> Any opinions on this or what we
> should do to alleviate the smell? We didn't want to replace the
carpet so
> soon
Learn to love the smell, then. You *may* be able to clean it, as
described above. If you are looking for an easy fix, it *ain't* gonna
happen. No magic sprinkle of magic dusting powder, or an all consuming
enzyme will work. I do anywhere from 10 to fifty of these a year, and
one was $39,000...2 cats, a tenant away for days, and 220 sq feet of
carpet ruined, every wall and piece of furniture sprayed, steps,
baseboards, etc.
> (we're thinking about putting in hardwood flooring a year or two
from
> now when we have some $ saved up for this). Thanks for any advice.
Good luck, Leslie, and I'll be happy to help. But I got news for
you...there was a cat which urinated in that house.
Give us poor cleaners a break, would ya?
Mark
IICRC Certified Master Cleaning Technician
IICRC Certified Master Restoration Technician
>
> Leslie
> lfo...@acm.vt.edu
Phillip T. Murphy
This is one of the reasons that a wet carpet cleaning system (and steam is
water) is not recommended (at least not by me).
Anytime you get your carpet wet, you risk causing mildew, etc. which causes
oders. Also, you risk ruining your pad and/or sub floor.
Next time try a dry carpet cleaner like Host. Works better than any wet
system I have seen. My wife loves the stuff because you just sprinkle it
on, run the machine over it, wait about an hour and vacuum it up. No
waiting for carpet to dry.
Good luck,
Phillip
Leslie Fowler wrote in message <6iplp4$8td$2...@dane.cslab.vt.edu>...
>Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house. The
>previous owners did not have pets, and I don't think the original owners
>did either. The living room has original carpeting (16 years). It was fine
>prior to the cleaning but now it smells like cat pee! My father-in-law
>suspects the foam underneath the carpet is disintegrating (aided by the
>steam-clean) and is causing the smell. Any opinions on this or what we
>should do to alleviate the smell? We didn't want to replace the carpet so
>soon (we're thinking about putting in hardwood flooring a year or two from
>now when we have some $ saved up for this). Thanks for any advice.
>
>Leslie
>lfo...@acm.vt.edu
>
pelmark
In article <6iv50l$4t2$1...@news.campus.mci.net>, "Phillip T. Murphy"
<pmu...@uky.campus.mci.net> wrote:
This was such an interesting post to me, that I had to comment. I use
all five of the IICRC accepted methods of cleaning carpet:
1. Absorbent Powder
2. Absorbent Pad (bonnet)
3. Dry Foam
4. Rotary Shampoo
5. Hot Water Extraction
The first three are referred to as "dry" methods in the sense that
there is minimal water used, but they are *all* water based cleaning
systems. What does the cleaning in these systems *is* water. At one
time, absorbent powder was heavily loaded with actual "dry" solvents
(petroleum based cleaning solvents) but was changed, as the solvents
have certain disadvantages, mostly in problems with using in an indoor
air environment.
> This is one of the reasons that a wet carpet cleaning system (and
steam is
> water) is not recommended (at least not by me).
Yet, the major carpet mills who make the carpet, do recommend hot
water extraction for their carpets, including the world's largest
carpet mill. And so do the *fiber* producers, such as DuPont who makes
the nylon filaments used to make the yarns used to make the carpet.
The Technical Services Director of a major mill who posts to these
groups, has stated he is not familiar with any mill who does not
recommend hot water extraction.
Now, I don't know if you are in the carpet or cleaning industries,
perhaps you are, but those *in* the industry do not agree with you.
> Anytime you get your carpet wet, you risk causing mildew, etc. which
causes
> oders. Also, you risk ruining your pad and/or sub floor.
Well...this is certainly *true* that getting carpets wet can cause
mildew, but we are talking *major* overwetting, which is a technician
problem, not a *method* problem. There are technicians and carpet
cleaners who are not very skilled, and I will freely admit it.
However, carpets cleaned by hot water extraction will dry in 24 hours
or less, which is the IICRC Cleaning Standard, which is used by the
entire industry.
Now, in over a decade of working on carpets in cleaning and restoring
hundreds of water damaged homes, plus carpet inspections, I have
*never* seen a carpet mildew from cleaning. I have seen carpets
"cellulosic brown" from too much water, or too much alkalinity, which
were not dried properly; I have smelled carpets develop odors from
overwetting, but I have never seen a carpet mildew from the cleaning
process. I have seen carpets *thick* with mildew, including one in
which mushrooms had sprouted in the living room, but these were in
flooded, second homes, where no one discovered the water for days,
even weeks.
Lastly, even using a truck mount with the solution pressure set at 600
psi while using a rotary jet tool like an RX-20, you are *not* going
to penetrate the backing and go to either the pad or the subfloor when
cleaning. Now you *could*, if you left the tool *stationary* for five
minutes on one spot with the tool trigger pulled, but the rapid
movement of tool over the carpet surface will not penetrate as deep as
is stated here.
I am sure of it, because I have pulled up the carpet *after* cleaning,
and inspected the backing, pad, and subfloor. True synthetic carpets
and pads are *not* affected by microorganisms, nor insects...however,
the soil in a carpet can become the growth medium for mildew.
> Next time try a dry carpet cleaner like Host. Works better than any
wet
> system I have seen.
Every "dry" system of cleaning carpet *is* water based. Unless those
ground up corn cobs, which is *what* Host is, can clean carpets. In
order for absorbent powders to work *best* especially in such heavy
use areas as traffic lanes, the carpet needs to be preconditioned with
a detergent prespray. This is then agitated into the surface of the
carpet, then the powder is sprinkled, and likewise agitated in. After
sufficient dwell time, the powder is vacuumed up.
Now it is my experience that no dry system of cleaning carpet comes
close to being able to remove heavy soiling, and two dry carpet
companies in my area send referrals to me weekly when they see carpets
their bonnet and powder systems won't clean.
"Soil" is defined as anything foreign to the carpet or its
construction...with this definition, it is obvious that when I am
*cleaning* a carpet, I am *soiling* it by my *own* definition. Adding
detergents and spotters *is* "soil". As is a paper clip, grass
clippings, dog hair, and actual physical soils, such as dirt and sand.
The main criticism of absorbent powders is the accumulation of the
powder in the carpet after several cleanings. There is no way the
powder can be removed, which is why dry powders are usually
maintenance cleaning systems. In my condominium building, our manager
uses dry powders in the common areas monthly, to keep them looking
good, and then I flush them one to two times per year. The amount of
dry powder residue in a heavily cleaned carpet using absorbent powders
is extraordinary.
Also, the original poster has a problem with a urine contamination.
Now we smell when odor is activated, and odor is activated in the
presence of heat and moisture. It seems like the *problem* which is
urine contamination, is secondary to the cleaning method which has
somehow "caused" the problem, by exposing the presence of this
contamination.
IOW, you should have used Host, then you would have never smelled the
urine. Which, I guess, means it is acceptable to live in a home
contaminated with urine as long as you don't smell it. Maybe for some,
but *never* for me.
> My wife loves the stuff because you just sprinkle it
> on, run the machine over it, wait about an hour and vacuum it up.
No
> waiting for carpet to dry.
You shouldn't have to wait that long, and my only experience with Host
was work with a company which went though 1--2 pallets of Host powder
*weekly*.
Absorbent powders are an accepted cleaning method, and has its place.
It has major disadvantages. But I am glad that you find it a good
method of cleaning and maintaining your carpets; I disagree with some
of your criticisms of wet based cleaning systems. *Nothing* cleans
better than water, and is this were not true, you would be doing
laundry with a brush instead of a washing machine. Or washing dishes
in corn cob powder. Or who can forget "Psssstttt...." the infamous
"dry" shampoo from a can sprayed on hair, and combed through.
Larry V.
OUTSTANDING Responce I am so glad to hear from a pro on this subject . I
have been in the industry all my life and I just learned something .
Who says an old dog can't learn new tricks !!!!
Larry V the carp...@erols.com
chris mendla
Phillip,
Does the Host system disinfect as well?? Is it available in Pennsylvania..
I'm asking because I previously rean into the troubles you described by using a
wet system.
Thanks,
Chris
Phillip T. Murphy wrote:
> This is one of the reasons that a wet carpet cleaning system (and steam is
> water) is not recommended (at least not by me).
>
> Anytime you get your carpet wet, you risk causing mildew, etc. which causes
> oders. Also, you risk ruining your pad and/or sub floor.
>
> Next time try a dry carpet cleaner like Host. Works better than any wet
> system I have seen. My wife loves the stuff because you just sprinkle it
> on, run the machine over it, wait about an hour and vacuum it up. No
> waiting for carpet to dry.
>
pelmark
In article <355A71C5...@op.net>, chris mendla <cgm...@op.net>
wrote:
> Phillip,
>
> Does the Host system disinfect as well?? Is it available in
Pennsylvania..
Host and dry absorbent powder cleaning systems are available nation
wide. There are other powders besides Host; it is not exactly
difficult to manufacture a cellulose product impregnated with a
detergent. Many operators of these systems, including myself, do not
use Host any longer as the Host powder is more expensive than other
like products which are as effective as Host is.
As far as disinfection, there is *no* method which can disinfect any
carpet, rug, or upholstered item, unless it is small enough to be
*immersed* or treated in such a manner to sterilize it...sterile
dressings for health care, as an example.
All EPA registered disinfectants disinfect *only* "hard, inantimate
surfaces" and require keeping the surface wet for usually 10--20
minutes. I can apply a disinfectant, but I cannot guarantee
disinfection. BTW, disinfectants void warranties on stain resistant
fibers, as their electrical charge is cationic. Disinfection is a 100%
kill rate of targeted organisms. It is impossible to guarantee a 100%
kill rate on *fiber*.
Anyone who states that they can disinfect your carpet is mistaken,
misinformed, or just lying.
> I'm asking because I previously rean into the troubles you described
by using a
> wet system.
That is unfortunate, but is an operator error. The usual cause is
insufficient training and education for technicians. I am truly sorry
your experiences were negative. It is not uncommon for homeowners to
have unpleasant experiences with poor carpet cleaners.
There is a *reason* why cleaning firms charge varying prices on
cleaning carpets and upholstery. It is usually because of much larger
investments in equipment, technology, cleaning agents, and *most*
importantly, training, education, and certification for technicians.
With our operation, we put high velocity air movers in rooms as we
finish them; by the time we are done, most of the home is dry before
our equipment is back on the truck. In the area I work, I have had 9
calls in two days, all from homeowners who used the same "money
saving" coupon from a cleaning company in the paper, and had less than
pleasant results. I had seven calls from the first day after the
coupon was offered, as the company *never* showed up at these homes.
Considering that one local discount carpet cleaner uses day laborers,
with the *same* machines available at your grocery store rental
section, it is no wonder that there are problems, but they are cheap
in price. Well, let me rephrase...they advertise low pricing. One,
which has made the local consumer advocate's television program
*three* times, and is currently being investigated by the state
department of revenue for charging consumers not only 7% tax (our tax
rate is 6%) on residential cleaning, while only *businesses*
(commercial properties) are taxable.
Look under your yellow pages, under "carpet cleaning". You will find,
I am sure, a company using dry powders, and often there will be one
which will list Host by name. Or you will find companies which use
other dry methods, such as absorbent pads (bonnets) or dry foam.
For IICRC Certified Firms in your area, try:
This will give you three Firms in your zip code, and they are rotated
after each call. Some will offer dry cleaning.
Mark
IICRC Certified Master Cleaning Technician
IICRC Certified Master Restoration Technician
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
die...@gmail.com
I think, the hot steam thaws the rubber binding gel between the carpet and that is rubber glue smell, like urine but not from pet urine.
nestork
die...@gmail.com;3065902 Wrote:
>
> I think, the hot steam thaws the rubber binding gel between the carpet
> and that is rubber glue smell, like urine but not from pet urine.
Carpets smell when they get wet for exactly the same reason a dog will
smell if it gets wet; it's fur is full of bacteria and dead skin cells
which provide food for that bacteria. As long as the carpet stays dry,
the bacteria will remain viable, or dormant, but won't multiply. When
you add water to the mix, you have bacteria heaven; plenty of food and a
wet environment so that the bacteria can spread all over the food and
multiply to their heart's content.
It's that bacterial population explosion that causes the smell.
Regular vaccuum cleaning will remove MOST of the solid soils from the
carpet, but it won't remove all of it and what doesn't get removed falls
deeper and deeper into the carpet pile where it can't be removed by any
vaccuum cleaner or carpet shampoo'er. Once you have enough organic
material deep in your carpet pile, it's inevitable that the carpet will
smell when you get it wet because you create a bacterial population
explosion every time you wet the carpet.
New carpets don't have years of organic dirt accumulated in them, so A
NEW carpet won't smell when you shampoo it. Similarily, show dogs that
are bathed regularily don't smell when they get wet, or don't smell any
more than a human that bathes regularily does when he/she gets wet.
It's the accumulated food and bacteria getting wet that causes the
bacterial population explosion and it's those bacteria all eating food
and pooping that causes the resulting smell.
What professional carpet cleaning contractors do when asked to shampoo
an old carpet that's likely to smell is to add a biocide made
specifically for killing bacteria to their solution tank. Then, when
they shampoo the carpet, the biocide kills any bacteria the water comes
into contact with, thereby preventing that bacterial population
explosion, and preventing the resulting smell.
What you did was created a bacterial population explosion by getting
your carpet wet, and it's all those bacteria eating and pooping that
created the smell. Then you bought a bunch of cleaners, applied them to
your carpet and the biocides in those cleaners killed the bacteria,
thereby eliminating the bacterial population explosion, and hence the
smell.
But, what you're carpet is telling you is that it's full of bacteria and
food for bacteria and really should be replaced. If you'd done the same
with a new carpet, you wouldn't have gotten that smell. Or, if you'd
waited for the carpet to dry out, the bacteria would have gone dormant
and the smell would have subsided as well.
This is why regular vaccuuming with a good quality vaccuum cleaner that
incorporates some sort of agitation into it's design is the best way to
get the longest life out of your carpet. The vaccuuming both removes
the organic matter that would provide food for bacteria and the hard
soils (like sand and road grit) that damage the carpet fibers.
--
nestork
gregz
Luke warm. I use oxyclean to purify and deodorize. It keeps working until
dry. Add some washing machine odor granules to get instant relief.
Did someone else do the cleaning ?
Greg
nestork
gregz;3065998 Wrote:
>
> I don't think steam is ever used. Over 200 degrees, I think not. Most
> are
> Luke warm.
That's right. Even though it's often called "steam cleaning" and Rug
Doctor's logo is "Steaming mad at dirt.", it's a hot water and soap
solution that's sprayed onto the carpet and vaccuumed out. There's no
steam involved.
But, better quality professional carpet cleaning "extractors" DO HAVE
electric heaters in their solution tank to keep the soap solution hot,
say 140 to 160 degrees F.
Rental carpet shampoo'ers are notorious for doing a poor job at removing
that soiled water from the carpet.
That's because just in the same way as car engines are classified by the
number of cylinders they have and the horsepower they produce, vaccuum
motors are classified according to the number of stages they have and
the "inches of water lift" they produce.
Your typical upright Hoover cannister vaccuum cleaner has a single stage
vaccuum motor which will lift a column of water about 30 inches tall at
sea level.
Your typical two stage vaccuum motor is what's used in a rental carpet
shampoo'er and a typical "shop" style wet/dry vaccuum cleaner, and it'll
lift a column of water about 55 to 65 inches tall.
An entry level commercial carpet cleaning machine will have a three
stage vaccuum motor that will lift a column of water from 80 to 100
inches tall.
My carpet extractor has two three stage vaccuum motors piped in
parallel, and it's specifications say it'll lift a column of water 183
inches tall and you can buy "truck mount units" that run 6 to 8 vaccuum
motors off a gasoline engine that will suck a golf ball through a garden
hose.
(terminology: a carpet "shampoo'er" is a machine that does have some
sort of brush to agitate the carpet pile while it's being cleaned
whereas a carpet "extractor" is one that doesn't, but just uses a hand
held "wand" that both sprays the cleaning solution down and sucks it
up)
The problem with rental carpet shampoo'ers is with only a single two
stage vaccuum motor, they just don't have sufficient suction to lift
very much soiled water out of the carpet, and that exacerbates the
problems people have after shampoo'ing their own carpets. Not only do
wetter carpets take longer to dry, but any smell from an old carpet
persists for longer as a result, but, because it's difficult to tell
where the smell is coming from in a room, most people don't associate
the smell with the wet carpet. And, ultimately, since it's dirty water
that you're sucking out of the carpet, the more dirty water you leave
behind in the carpet, the dirtier the carpet remains after it's fully
dried out.
You can buy a carpet cleaning biocide at most Janitorial Supply stores
(and any that do lots of business with carpet cleaning contractors will
certainly have at least one biocide in stock), but a gallon of the stuff
would be a life time supply, and way more than a typical homeowner would
ever be likely to use. I think if it were me, I would probably check in
an inconspicuous spot to see if Lysol harms the carpet, and if not, I'd
add some Lysol to the solution tank when shampoo'ing so that the soapy
water you spray down will kill all the bacteria it contacts. Or, better
yet, shampoo the carpet normally, and then go over it a second time with
Lysol in the rinse water. That way, you're both removing any residual
soap in the carpet and killing the bacteria that are starting to
multiply.
'Choosing odor control products'
(http://www.cleanfax.com/articles/choosing-odor-control-products)
--
nestork
tcrai...@gmail.com
We have two dogs but their coats do not smell. When they do start to develop an odor we bathe them and it takes care of it. The odor after the clean is terrible. Overwhelming dog-coat smell. The cleaners came back two days later to clean again. They did not enzyme treat after the clean initially because there was no odor and we didn't have stains. They used the after treatment the second time. For most of the day, all we could smell is the treatment. Gradually, the smell started coming through the treatment scent.
Julie Bove
<tcrai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f3acef8f-4774-421e...@googlegroups.com...
I'm not Mark and I can't explain it but I do know that smell. Daughter used
to go to a tutor with a dog and I could always tell when she had cleaned the
carpets. It wasn't pleasant.
RobertMacy
dog skin dander flaking off and working down everywhere into the carpet.
Gets wet. Bacteria starts breaking it down. and you get dog coat smell.
You can break the cycle with a small amount of bleach added to the carpet
'rinse' water. Or Febreze, if you carpet is not color stable to bleach.
Again, my guess here, maybe Nestork will wade in.
nestork
Well, my name isn't Mark, but I can explain what's happening and why.
Basically, when a carpet smells after a bath just the same way as a dog
smells after a bath, the reason is because in both cases you're
providing perfect conditions for a bacterial population explosion, and
it's the growth and multiplication of bacteria that causes the smell.
Dust, which is mostly organic matter (dead skin cells, fabric and paper
fibers, pollen, etc) provides food for bacteria. No matter how good
your vaccuum cleaner is, organic dust will eventually accumulate way
down deep into the carpet pile. When you then get that carpet wet, you
provide what a bacterium would consider "Heaven"; plenty of food and the
ability to move around easily in the wettness in the carpet. So, when
you shampoo a carpet, the bacteria in it start to multiply like crazy,
and it's that bacterial population explosion that makes the wet carpet
smell much the same as a wet dog, and for exactly the same reason.
New carpets and dogs that regularily get baths (like show dogs) don't
smell like that after a bath because they don't have large amounts of
organic food accumulated in them, so there's no bacterial population
explosion when they get wet.
To eliminate the smell as quickly as possible, dry the carpet as quickly
as possible. That will eliminate the bacteria's ability to multiply,
thereby ending the population explosion and the smell. Maybe beg,
borrow or steal a dehumidifier and set that up in the middle of the
carpet.
And, what you're carpet is telling you is that it's at the end of it's
life. You can try vaccuuming it vigorously, but when carpets smell
after getting wet the usual cause is that there's so much organic food
accumulated so deep in the carpet that vaccuuming won't get it out, and
it'll smell every time you shampoo it.
When a professional carpet cleaner is hired to shampoo an old carpet
that he suspects is going to stink after cleaning, he'll add a
bacteriacide to the solution tank water. So, the water he sprays down
on the carpet kills all the bacteria it contacts, and that prevents the
carpet smell. It's not the best way of doing things, but he'd rather do
that than get complaints about the smell afterwards, or explain to the
customer that they really need a new carpet and not get the job at all.
You can buy bacteriacide for carpet cleaning at any place listed under
"Janitorial Equipment & Supplies" in your Yellow Pages phone directory,
and one bottle should be considered a life time supply since your best
bet now is to replace that carpet.
And now you know why regular cleaning with a good vaccuum cleaner is the
most effective way to increase the life of your carpet. Regular
vaccuuming removes organic matter from the surface of the carpet before
it has a chance to fall deep into the carpet pile where it can't be
removed, but will provide food for the bacteria.
I am also surprised that your carpet will have accumulated this much
organic matter in it in only two years. Normally, one would expect that
to happen after 20 or 30 years. The only thing I can think of that
might explain that is the presence of two dogs rubbing on the carpet
combined with a lack of effective vaccuuming.
--
nestork
Tony Hwang
> Mark, can you explain why nearly two year-old carpet with medium grade pad would smell so strongly of dog odor after being steam cleaned with the rotary steamer, enzyme pre-treatment and enzyme after treatment?
>
> We have two dogs but their coats do not smell. When they do start to develop an odor we bathe them and it takes care of it. The odor after the clean is terrible. Overwhelming dog-coat smell. The cleaners came back two days later to clean again. They did not enzyme treat after the clean initially because there was no odor and we didn't have stains. They used the after treatment the second time. For most of the day, all we could smell is the treatment. Gradually, the smell started coming through the treatment scent.
>
We used to have a dog and a cat. I steam clean carpet myself when
needed. House is cleaned by a nice cleaning lady top to bottom every
other week.
Now we have only a dog(big breed). We give him bath every couple months.
Nothing smells in the house. Maybe the dog is fed low quality food?
(a junk food). Our dog only eats Blue(brown rice and chicken formula)
since it was puppy.
Ed Pawlowski
> Mark, can you explain why nearly two year-old carpet with medium grade pad would smell so strongly of dog odor after being steam cleaned with the rotary steamer, enzyme pre-treatment and enzyme after treatment?
>
> We have two dogs but their coats do not smell. When they do start to develop an odor we bathe them and it takes care of it. The odor after the clean is terrible. Overwhelming dog-coat smell. The cleaners came back two days later to clean again. They did not enzyme treat after the clean initially because there was no odor and we didn't have stains. They used the after treatment the second time. For most of the day, all we could smell is the treatment. Gradually, the smell started coming through the treatment scent.
>
carpet and put in wood or tile floors. Dogs leave dander, hair, and
other stuff that gets deep into the carpet and stinks when wet.
Ceramic tile would be best in hallways and slab floors.
Oren
>Mark, can you explain why nearly two year-old carpet with medium grade pad would smell so strongly of dog odor after being steam cleaned with the rotary steamer, enzyme pre-treatment and enzyme after treatment?
Vic Smith
sometimes lounged on. Unbelievable stench after repeated washings.
Hosing the rugs outside, scrubbing with a brush and suds 3 times
didn't make a dent in the smell. Wool rugs. Threw them out.
Didn't use an anti-bacterial, and it's probably a good idea to use it,
She never smelled bad, just doggy, but apparently her oils got in the
rugs and chair. Our two other dogs are no problem, but they sleep on
pads/pillows which get machine washed when they get ripe.
The pads/pillows smell fresh after washing. Mostly cotton.
Different dogs do have different odors.
Tony Hwang
Also female vs. male and neutered or spayed and not makes difference too.
Guv Bob
We have two dogs
...but their coats do not smell. When they do start to develop an odor we bathe them and it takes care of it. The odor after the clean is terrible. Overwhelming dog-coat smell. The cleaners came back two days later to clean again. They did not enzyme treat after the clean initially because there was no odor and we didn't have stains. They used the after treatment the second time. For most of the day, all we could smell is the treatment. Gradually, the smell started coming through the treatment scent.
Mark
>
> We have two dogs but their coats do not smell. When they do start to develop an odor we bathe them and it takes care of it. The odor after the clean is terrible. Overwhelming dog-coat smell. The cleaners came back two days later to clean again. They did not enzyme treat after the clean initially because there was no odor and we didn't have stains. They used the after treatment the second time. For most of the day, all we could smell is the treatment. Gradually, the smell started coming through the treatment scent.
>
with the dogs pooping and peeing inside, I'm surprised you can live in
that nasty place you call home.
bob haller
this includes hardwoods, and even concrete:(
you must do what the fire restoration companies do. Remove ALL porous surfaces like carpet, pad, tack strips etc.
then clean as good as you can dry compeltely, and coat with OUTDOOR POLYURETHANE, this will seal the odor in! no amount of scrubing with anything will remove urine.
if he walls smell at all scrub clean and coat with OIL BASED kilz or bin.....
nestork
>
> You do have to let the dogs outside to use the potty. After 2 years
> with the dogs pooping and peeing inside, I'm surprised you can live in
> that nasty place you call home.
>
If the dogs were messing all over the carpet for the past two years, I
expect the lady wouldn't be wondering why the carpet stinks. I'm
guessing she'd be able to figure out that much without any help.
--
nestork
rbowman
> When a professional carpet cleaner is hired to shampoo an old carpet
> that he suspects is going to stink after cleaning, he'll add a
> bacteriacide to the solution tank water. So, the water he sprays down
> on the carpet kills all the bacteria it contacts, and that prevents the
> carpet smell. It's not the best way of doing things, but he'd rather do
> that than get complaints about the smell afterwards, or explain to the
> customer that they really need a new carpet and not get the job at all.
SOP?
nestork
rbowman;3280422 Wrote:
> nestork wrote:
> -
> that he suspects is going to stink after cleaning, he'll add a
> bacteriacide to the solution tank water. So, the water he sprays down
> on the carpet kills all the bacteria it contacts, and that prevents
> the
> carpet smell. It's not the best way of doing things, but he'd rather
> do
> that than get complaints about the smell afterwards, or explain to the
> customer that they really need a new carpet and not get the job at
> Why not? I'm not arguing just curious why a bacteriacide wouldn't be a
> good
> SOP?
I regularily shampoo the carpets in 19 rented apartments after tenants
move out, and I never have to use a bacteriacide so it's something that
just never crossed my mind. Why not use a bacteriacide just in case?
The chemicals aren't expensive, and if I were going to shampoo someone
else's carpet, where I really didn't know the condition of the carpet,
it would be smart to use a bacteriacide in the solution tank just to
make sure I didn't get complaints about the carpet smelling afterwards.
But, as I say, normally if a carpet cleaning contractor suspects there's
going to be a smell, he'll use a bacteriacide. But, on a 2 year old
carpet, he probably wouldn't have expected that he'd need to. But, I
agree, it would have been smart for him to have used bacteriacide for
the few cents it's going to cost just to prevent customer complaints.
--
nestork
getpaidtos...@gmail.com
Interesting topic,
I had same experience, and when I was asked by steam cleaner if I had pets, I said yes, but my dog never urinated on carpet and my cat stays in shed since I have allergies.
Well, as with others, when carpet was steam cleaned, the smell of cat urine was overpowering. When I too questioned steam cleaner, he suggested he comes back and use sanitizer on carpet at an extra expense which I refused when first offered it due to the fact I knew my dog never had an accident on carpet. Since I don't know if previous owners had cats, I didn't see any obvious stains, just overall didn't want to move into a house without cleaning carpets even if they were not dirty looking. I am clean freak, so I reget having carpets cleaned as the smell persists weeks later.
When I learned what steam cleaner uses if you had pets, it is nothing more than fabreeze treatment which anyone can buy cheaply and use, what a shock to think they wanted to charge me $40.00 for a fabreeze treatment. lol Anyway, this didn't last as I sprayed fabreeze several times, and I can hardly stand its smell too, but better than car urine.
Long story short, I was introduced to an air purifier system for free trial, so being desperate, and not wanting to replace rugs having just paid for move, I said, sure, let me try it. Green-Homes.com dropped off a small unit wich I placed in living room which is about 900 sq. ft. is size. I was amazed, the very next day after running unit overnight I could not smell the car urine any longer. I then tried not using it for the next night to see if I saw any difference, and low and behold, odor was still gone, and I have a keen nose given I have had allergies and asthma for decades.
OK, so the unit worked, and it was only $100., but if it worked that quick, I figured why spend the money if odor was gone in one day. Well, you guessed it, odor started to come back after one humid day a week later, so it is definately moisture related which activates old car urine smells. YUK. Well, needless to say I bought this air purilizer and when needed, I plug it into my living room outlet and keep it my my dogs bed the rest of the time, and low and behold, my allergies and sneezing and wheezing have deminished to the point I can breath at night while sleeping and have stopped going through a box of tissues every few days so I should get a return on my investment on tissue expense in first year. LOL
I don't know if it will totally eliminate car urine odors and allergins in general, but it sure is getting better after just a few weeks and now I just leave it on by dogs bed and it seems to keep the odor from coming back even on severe humid days which we have experienced this summer for weeks on end. Some of the other benefits I have seen is less kitchen and bathroom odors too, amazing little device is all I can say. Given I have had mold issues too, I am trying it out in basement next and will post results.
Success to all,
grus...@gmail.com
> Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house. The
> previous owners did not have pets, and I don't think the original owners
> did either. The living room has original carpeting (16 years). It was fine
> prior to the cleaning but now it smells like cat pee! My father-in-law
> suspects the foam underneath the carpet is disintegrating (aided by the
> steam-clean) and is causing the smell. Any opinions on this or what we
> should do to alleviate the smell? We didn't want to replace the carpet so
> soon (we're thinking about putting in hardwood flooring a year or two from
> now when we have some $ saved up for this). Thanks for any advice.
>
> Leslie
> lfo...@acm.vt.edu
R.U.Ins...@dot.com
>On Wednesday, May 6, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Leslie Fowler wrote:
That carpet has been wet for over 17 years. The floor is probably rotted
by now! Dont walk on it.
Just demolish the house........
Oren
<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VtJuqE2bXGg/T_BrAz-BDpI/AAAAAAAAAsg/Xf70EXbFQPE/s1600/captain-obvious.jpg>
Uncle Monster
> Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house. The
> previous owners did not have pets, and I don't think the original owners
> did either. The living room has original carpeting (16 years). It was fine
> prior to the cleaning but now it smells like cat pee! My father-in-law
> suspects the foam underneath the carpet is disintegrating (aided by the
> steam-clean) and is causing the smell. Any opinions on this or what we
> should do to alleviate the smell? We didn't want to replace the carpet so
> soon (we're thinking about putting in hardwood flooring a year or two from
> now when we have some $ saved up for this). Thanks for any advice.
>
> Leslie
> lfo...@acm.vt.edu
[8~{} Uncle Archaeological Monster
Stormin Mormon
> On Wednesday, May 6, 1998 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Leslie Fowler wrote:
>> Help! Our carpets were steam-cleaned before we moved into our house. The
>>
>> lfo...@acm.vt.edu
>
> HOLY FRAK! A 17 YEAR OLD POST! It's the oldest one I've seen so far. o_O
>
> [8~{} Uncle Archaeological Monster
>
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
bob haller
google is going into the auo drive car business...........
bob haller
they are impossible to clean, once the offensive odor gets into the floors, walls etc etc etc.
they only real forver solution is to sealm the odor in.
on floors use outdoor polyurethane. so future moisture exposure doesnt allow the odor to return.
on walls use oil based kilz or bin.
i once deodorized a home that stank. the stnk never reoccured......
you scrub completely let dry for a couple days, run furnace on max.
then air out and seal everything.
this is how fire restoration companies get rid of smoke odor. works for tobacco stink
of course toss anything soft, like carpets, furniture etc, its not worth the effort to deodorize unless they are family heirlooms
Stormin Mormon
> ponder this for a moment:(
>
> google is going into the auo drive car business...........
>
years later as though nothing had happened?
--
linda...@gmail.com
Piso Mojado
> I had Stanley Steamer clean my carpet and have had a horrible smell since they had done it. Called them back and told them about the odor and they came back out and redid my carpets and both times used a live enzyme deodorizer done. My carpet still has a horrible smell and it's not from any pets. What could be causing this smell?
>
your job and farted his way through your house.
Dan Espen
What does it smell like?
Does anyone else agree that it smells bad?
Is it everywhere they cleaned or in a specific place?
It could be that you just don't like the perfumes Stanley Steamer uses
as their "deodorizer".
I suggest you open the windows and doors and turn on any fans you have.
--
Dan Espen
dpb
...
> No idea, but then you haven't given sufficient hints.
> I suggest you open the windows and doors and turn on any fans you have.
used to it or replaced them or moved by now... :)
In reality, as the posters back then responded, in all likelihood there
was a previous owner with pets and the steam cleaning dissolved
existing pet urine in the carpet and pad and left the residual odors
therefrom for the (then) current resident...
--
Dan Espen
linda seemed to be posting about a new issue.
--
Dan Espen
dpb
...
> linda seemed to be posting about a new issue.
there is something in the carpet/pad from previous owner(s) that has
been reactivated by the steam cleaning that is now the source of the odor.
With time the carpet/pads will fully dry again and it'll again abate and
become "the new normal"...
'Tis a risk any time you try such a procedure if you don't have complete
knowledge of the past it may come back to haunt.
--
