Electric Stove Requirements
gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com
I am replacing my old range and oven with a new free standing stove.
The new stove needs 220V and 40 amps. My old oven used (2) 20 amp
breakers for the correct electricity. The problem is my old stove used
12/3 wire. Since each hot wire will only carry 20 amps the 12 gauge
wire is fine. So my question is how many amps will the neutral wire
carry? Should I rewire using 8 gauge wire for the neutral wire or is
the 12 gauge wire safe?
Thanks,
Glenn
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Jim Mais
gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com wrote:
>
> I am replacing my old range and oven with a new free standing stove.
> The new stove needs 220V and 40 amps. My old oven used (2) 20 amp
> breakers for the correct electricity. The problem is my old stove used
> 12/3 wire. Since each hot wire will only carry 20 amps the 12 gauge
> wire is fine. So my question is how many amps will the neutral wire
> carry? Should I rewire using 8 gauge wire for the neutral wire or is
> the 12 gauge wire safe?
I think you have gotten confused by the way the new stove is rated.
The 40 Amp rating means for *each* leg. That is twice what the old
circuit breaker (s) was rated for. I think you will have to run an
entirely new line along with a new , larger circuit breaker.
See if the stove instructions suggest a wire size and breaker size. I
would think #6 wire and a 50 Amp breaker would be appropriate.
Speedy jim
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net
In article <884707813...@dejanews.com>,
gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com wrote:
>
> I am replacing my old range and oven with a new free standing stove.
> The new stove needs 220V and 40 amps. My old oven used (2) 20 amp
> breakers for the correct electricity. The problem is my old stove used
> 12/3 wire. Since each hot wire will only carry 20 amps the 12 gauge
> wire is fine. So my question is how many amps will the neutral wire
> carry? Should I rewire using 8 gauge wire for the neutral wire or is
> the 12 gauge wire safe?
>
> Glenn
Glenn;
Some simple electrical math: 20amp+20amps=20amps. Don't ask me to
explain, that's just the way it is.
Unless you will only use one burner at a time, I doubt that the 12-ga
wire on a 20-amp breaker will be adequate. Don't use the old 12-ga wire.
It'll never carry the current needed for your new stove. Rewire with
8-ga wire, and sleep better at night.
How much will the neutral carry? Depends on the stove itself. The
burners and oven elements will switch back and forth, on and off, so
there's no sure way of knowing what current is going to be on the neutral
unless you have an amp-meter.
Good luck!!
Ken D.
RonHen
I agree with Speedy Jim, I hope you pull a new circuit, using at a min.
#8-4. 2 hot's netural,grd.
Be safe
Ron
gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com wrote in article
<884707813...@dejanews.com>...
> I am replacing my old range and oven with a new free standing stove.
> The new stove needs 220V and 40 amps. My old oven used (2) 20 amp
> breakers for the correct electricity. The problem is my old stove used
> 12/3 wire. Since each hot wire will only carry 20 amps the 12 gauge
> wire is fine. So my question is how many amps will the neutral wire
> carry? Should I rewire using 8 gauge wire for the neutral wire or is
> the 12 gauge wire safe?
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
TinMan132
Speedy jim writes:
>I think you have gotten confused by the way the new stove is rated.
>The 40 Amp rating means for *each* leg. That is twice what the old
>circuit breaker (s) was rated for. I think you will have to run an
>entirely new line along with a new , larger circuit breaker.
>See if the stove instructions suggest a wire size and breaker size. I
>would think #6 wire and a 50 Amp breaker would be appropriate.
Speedy jim is correct. Ditch the two single pole breakers and 12ga and begin
anew. You need a DP breaker and the gauge of wire will also depend on the
distance from the load center to the appliance (however #6 would likely do for
most homes regardless).
J.P.
tinm...@aol.com
Michel Gagnon
In article (Dans l'article)
<19980114042...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tinm...@aol.com
(TinMan132) wrote (écrivait) :
>Speedy jim writes:
>
>>I think you have gotten confused by the way the new stove is rated.
>>The 40 Amp rating means for *each* leg. That is twice what the old
>>circuit breaker (s) was rated for. I think you will have to run an
>>entirely new line along with a new , larger circuit breaker.
>>See if the stove instructions suggest a wire size and breaker size. I
>>would think #6 wire and a 50 Amp breaker would be appropriate.
>
It depends where the writer is from. While this setup is ok in U.S., in
Canada, a 40 A electric stove should not be installed on a 50 A circuit,
but rather on a 40 A circuit. While 6/4 cable also works, 8/4 cable would
be sufficient on a 40 A circuit.
If your run is longer than 75 to 100 ft, use one size larger.
--
Michel Gagnon -- Montréal (Québec, Canada)
Michel...@videotron.ca
RonHen
I'm sorry 20 plus 20 amps don't add up to 20amp's. It is 20amps per. leg
for a total of 40 amps.
If you put a amp meter on each hot wire you will measure 20amps but you
need to size the wire for 40 amps. Your oven is where you will pull the
largest load, not the burner's.
Be safe
Ron
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
<884736929...@dejanews.com>...
> In article <884707813...@dejanews.com>,
> gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com wrote:
> >
> > I am replacing my old range and oven with a new free standing stove.
> > The new stove needs 220V and 40 amps. My old oven used (2) 20 amp
> > breakers for the correct electricity. The problem is my old stove used
> > 12/3 wire. Since each hot wire will only carry 20 amps the 12 gauge
> > wire is fine. So my question is how many amps will the neutral wire
> > carry? Should I rewire using 8 gauge wire for the neutral wire or is
> > the 12 gauge wire safe?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Glenn
>
> Glenn;
>
> Some simple electrical math: 20amp+20amps=20amps. Don't ask me to
> explain, that's just the way it is.
>
> Unless you will only use one burner at a time, I doubt that the 12-ga
> wire on a 20-amp breaker will be adequate. Don't use the old 12-ga wire.
> It'll never carry the current needed for your new stove. Rewire with
> 8-ga wire, and sleep better at night.
>
> How much will the neutral carry? Depends on the stove itself. The
> burners and oven elements will switch back and forth, on and off, so
> there's no sure way of knowing what current is going to be on the neutral
> unless you have an amp-meter.
>
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Ken D.
>
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net
In article <01bd216c$a1fc6820$90a551d1@ron>,
"RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry 20 plus 20 amps don't add up to 20amp's. It is 20amps per. leg
> for a total of 40 amps.
> If you put a amp meter on each hot wire you will measure 20amps but you
> need to size the wire for 40 amps. Your oven is where you will pull the
> largest load, not the burner's.
> Be safe
> Ron
>
>
If there's 20 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 20 amps on the other leg,
it's a 20 amp circuit, not 40.
If there's 30 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 30 amps on the other leg,
it's a 30 amp circuit, not 60.
If there's 40 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 40 amps on the other leg,
it's a 40 amp circuit, not 80.
According to Ron, if I have a 20 amp circuit, I need to use #8 wire,
rated for 40 amps. Why would I use #8 wire on a circuit breaker of only
20 amps? (maybe for a circuit that's VERY long!) If I have a 40-amp
circuit, I'd use #8. If I had a 20-amp circuit, I'd use #12.
Still, the proper way to handle the original post's question is to
install a 40-amp circuit with #8 wire.
RonHen
To clarify,
The original post was referring to a 220v circuit I believe, correct me
if i'm wrong,
have been before. But your telling me if you have a stove your hooking up
and it require's
a 40 amp breaker, you would only use a 20 amp breaker? i'm puzzled with
your math here.
When you take a amp probe and clamp it around the hot wire's one at a time
you will
get 20amp's per wire , for a total of 40 amps, not 20 amp's. It's true you
could use (two )
20 amp breaker's to do the job but the fact remain's it will take 40 amps
to do the job.
What you are describing is true if you use two breaker's on a 220v
circuit.But if you use just
(one 220v breaker) it will be the sum of both leg's amperage, 20+20=40
etc.....
Do you have a electric stove? What does the breaker say on it ? Is it one
breaker 220v or two
120v breaker's?
Sorry I didnt mean to say #8 wire for a 20 amp circuit, but I think better
than I type, it's
#14 for 15amp ,#12 for 20 amp, and so on and so forth. I hope I haven't
been putting
#8 wire in for 20 amp circuit's :) I would be losing a lot of money and
time doing that. Can you
imagine doing a whole house using #8 wire ,wow. I have doing residential
and commercial
wiring job for several year's I think I know a little something about this,
but I never say
never, I could be wrong.
Sorry about that, but I think their is some miscommunication here
somewhere.
Be safe
Ron
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
<885013532...@dejanews.com>...
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net
In article <01bd23ba$603de440$a0a551d1@ron>,
"RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> wrote:
> When you take a amp probe and clamp it around the hot wire's one at a time
> you will
> get 20amp's per wire , for a total of 40 amps, not 20 amp's.
Ron:
Let's draw out the circuit:
20A---->
------hot------------------------------------!
!
2 l #
4 o #
0 a #
V d #
!
------hot------------------------------------!
<----20A
The above circuit it a 20 amp circuit, not 40. There is no place on this
circuit that will draw 40 amps.
Way back when I was an itty-bitty electrician , I learned about some dude
named Georg Simon Ohm, a German physicist who lived a long time ago
(1787-1854), and discovered the relationship between current flow
(measured in amps, 'I'), electrical pressure (measured in volts, 'E'),
and resistance (measured in ohms, 'R').
This Georg person, whose parents were so poor they could only afford one
'E' for his name, grew up to figure out the poor-mans' version of "e=m c
squared". All of his little physicist buddies exclaimed, "Simon, old
pal!!! [they liked to call him Simon just to irritate him] That's neat!
Now go fly a kite!" George promptly did, because he had heard this is
what Benjamin Franklin had done years before.
After poor ol' George was struck by lightning and killed, all of his
little physicist buddies felt sorry for him, and named his formula,
E=I/R, after him, calling it "Ohm's Law".
At first, they thought this law meant "Do not fly kites during rain
storms," but budding electricians figured out that poor ol' Georg was
trying to help them calculate electrical circuits. They, then, figured
out all sorts of variation on poor ol' Georg's law, coming up with I=E*R,
and R=E/I.
One day, at an electrician's convention, someone found out that poor ol'
Georg forgot to tell them about some things called 'series circuits' and
'parallel circuits'. They all put their fried little brains together,
and figured out that in a series circuit, the current flow (I) is always
the same. Only in a parallel circuit will 'I', measured in amps, ever
change. All these electricians figuring this out was quit amazing,
especially when you consider the fact that they all liked to play with
metal objects around energized electrical equipment. This is why we have
voltages like 208, and 277, and 480. In fact, the keynote speaker at
this convention came up with 13,200 for a standard.
A test was given at the convention with the above circuit, and everyone
agreed the resistance of the load was 12 ohms (R=E/I, R=240/20).
I hope you don't mind my silly story here, but my point is, the above
circuit is still consume 20-amps anywhere along the circuit path, is
considered a 20 amp circuit, you would use 12-ga wire, and use a 2-pole,
20-amp circuit. If the load were to consume 40 amps, for whatever reason,
the 20-amp circuit breaker would open. Henceforth, my original
statement, "20-amps + 20-amps = 20-amps."
If this were a 3-phase circuit on a 3-pole, 20-amp circuit, the maximum
current draw would still be 20-amps, with 12-ga wire, and a 3-pole,
20-amp circuit breaker, and I would revise my statement to, "20-amps +
20-amps + 20-amps = 20-amps."
If the above circuit drew 40 amps per leg, such as an electric range, the
load is still a 40-amp load, not 80.
I hope this makes pool ol' Georgs' life worthwhile.
Ken D.
RonHen
Now I get it , on a 220v circuit the current flow's in on hot leg and out
on the other, it doesn't
even need the neutral, I sure can't argue with that logic ;) I see we
won't agree on this
subject and I not going to confuse anybody else out there reading these
post's. Your going
to think one way and me another, let's leave it at that.
Be safe
Ron
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
<885135472....@dejanews.com>...
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address
In article <01bd2444$3eadde40$8ea551d1@ron>, "RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> wrote:
+Now I get it , on a 220v circuit the current flow's in on hot leg and out
+on the other, it doesn't
+even need the neutral, I sure can't argue with that logic ;) I see we
+won't agree on this
+subject and I not going to confuse anybody else out there reading these
+post's. Your going
+to think one way and me another, let's leave it at that.
+Be safe
+Ron
Ken doesn't help things any by repeatedly misstating Ohm's Law, that's
for sure. Oh, well, he did get it right once...
+> E=I/R, after him, calling it "Ohm's Law".
BZZZT! Try again.
+> out all sorts of variation on poor ol' Georg's law, coming up with I=E*R,
BZZZT! Try again.
+> and R=E/I.
DING! Right this time. Sheesh. What took so long?
The other *correct* formulations of Ohm's Law are E = I * R and I = E / R.
Just the same, Ken is right about one thing: a 220v circuit with 20 amps on
each leg is still a 20amp circuit. Not a 40-amp circuit. If you'd like to
verify it, Ron, try this: wire up a test circuit for some 220v equipment,
say an electric heater, that requires a 20amp breaker. Wire an ordinary
light socket into the *neutral* conductor, and screw a 20amp fuse into
the socket. If this is really a 40amp circuit, the fuse will blow as soon
as you turn on the heater.
+
+CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
+<885135472....@dejanews.com>...
+> In article <01bd23ba$603de440$a0a551d1@ron>,
+> "RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> wrote:
+>
+> > When you take a amp probe and clamp it around the hot wire's one at a
+time
+> > you will
+> > get 20amp's per wire , for a total of 40 amps, not 20 amp's.
+>
+>
+> Ron:
+>
+>
+> Let's draw out the circuit:
+>
+> 20A---->
+> ------hot------------------------------------!
+> !
+> 2 l #
+> 4 o #
+> 0 a #
+> V d #
+> !
+> ------hot------------------------------------!
+> <----20A
+>
+>
+> The above circuit it a 20 amp circuit, not 40. There is no place on
this
+> circuit that will draw 40 amps.
+>
+> Way back when I was an itty-bitty electrician , I learned about some dude
+> named Georg Simon Ohm, a German physicist who lived a long time ago
+> (1787-1854), and discovered the relationship between current flow
+> (measured in amps, 'I'), electrical pressure (measured in volts, 'E'),
+> and resistance (measured in ohms, 'R').
+>
+> This Georg person, whose parents were so poor they could only afford one
+> 'E' for his name, grew up to figure out the poor-mans' version of "e=m c
+> squared". All of his little physicist buddies exclaimed, "Simon, old
+> pal!!! [they liked to call him Simon just to irritate him] That's
neat!
+> Now go fly a kite!" George promptly did, because he had heard this is
+> what Benjamin Franklin had done years before.
+>
+> After poor ol' George was struck by lightning and killed, all of his
+> little physicist buddies felt sorry for him, and named his formula,
+> E=I/R, after him, calling it "Ohm's Law".
+>
+> At first, they thought this law meant "Do not fly kites during rain
+> storms," but budding electricians figured out that poor ol' Georg was
+> trying to help them calculate electrical circuits. They, then, figured
+> out all sorts of variation on poor ol' Georg's law, coming up with I=E*R,
+> and R=E/I.
+>
+> One day, at an electrician's convention, someone found out that poor ol'
+> Georg forgot to tell them about some things called 'series circuits' and
+> 'parallel circuits'. They all put their fried little brains together,
+> and figured out that in a series circuit, the current flow (I) is always
+> the same. Only in a parallel circuit will 'I', measured in amps, ever
+> change. All these electricians figuring this out was quit amazing,
+> especially when you consider the fact that they all liked to play with
+> metal objects around energized electrical equipment. This is why we have
+> voltages like 208, and 277, and 480. In fact, the keynote speaker at
+> this convention came up with 13,200 for a standard.
+>
+> A test was given at the convention with the above circuit, and everyone
+> agreed the resistance of the load was 12 ohms (R=E/I, R=240/20).
+>
+> I hope you don't mind my silly story here, but my point is, the above
+> circuit is still consume 20-amps anywhere along the circuit path, is
+> considered a 20 amp circuit, you would use 12-ga wire, and use a 2-pole,
+> 20-amp circuit. If the load were to consume 40 amps, for whatever reason,
+> the 20-amp circuit breaker would open. Henceforth, my original
+> statement, "20-amps + 20-amps = 20-amps."
+>
+> If this were a 3-phase circuit on a 3-pole, 20-amp circuit, the maximum
+> current draw would still be 20-amps, with 12-ga wire, and a 3-pole,
+> 20-amp circuit breaker, and I would revise my statement to, "20-amps +
+> 20-amps + 20-amps = 20-amps."
+>
+> If the above circuit drew 40 amps per leg, such as an electric range, the
+> load is still a 40-amp load, not 80.
+>
+> I hope this makes pool ol' Georgs' life worthwhile.
+>
+>
+> Ken D.
+>
+> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
+> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
+>
danh...@millcomm.com
In <01bd2444$3eadde40$8ea551d1@ron>, "RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> writes:
>Now I get it , on a 220v circuit the current flow's in on hot leg and out
>to think one way and me another, let's leave it at that.
Ken D is right, the fact that a 220V circuit has two 20A breakers on it
does not make it a 40A circuit. Rather, it is a 20A 220V circuit. It
carries essentially the same amount of power as a 40A circuit, since 40A
times 110V is the same as 20A times 220V. But that still does not make it
a 40A circuit.
Dan Hicks
Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks
RonHen
Doug
Let's go way back to the original to get the gist of this. I think the
original post was
asking about what to use or if the size of wire was large enough to handle
load. To this
end I think we should inform him without confusing the issue any further,
that a electric stove
regardless at this point what the amperage is, need's a 40 or 50 amp
breaker in the panel.
Wither it be a 40 or 50 amp 220v or 2 single pole 20 amp breaker's. And the
wire handling
this amperage need's to be a 8 or 6 gauge with grd. Or unless he goes with
two separate
single pole breaker's then use 10 gauge. Can you agree with this, I won't
purse the amperage
question any further.
Be safe
Ron
Doug Miller...see my sig for real e-mail address
<d.l.m...@inetdirect.net> wrote in article
<69tmck$cc4...@p1-term1-and.netdirect.net>...
Milo E
I think all you guys need to recite the Electrician's Prayer:
"Amps, Volts, Watts, and Ohms,
Do not char my gleaming bones."
danh...@millcomm.com
In <01bd2537$18739960$94a551d1@ron>, "RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> writes:
>Wither it be a 40 or 50 amp 220v or 2 single pole 20 amp breaker's. And the
>wire handling
>this amperage need's to be a 8 or 6 gauge with grd.
Two 20 amp single pole breakers is NOT equivalent to a 40 amp 220V
breaker!! A 40 amp 220V breaker is two 40 amp single pole breakers ganged
together.
Rusty
For a kitchen range, code requires a 50A, 120/240V dedicated circuit.
This means 6/3 cable, with ground & a double pole breaker.
gh...@amdatasw.usnus.abb.com wrote in article
><884707813...@dejanews.com>...
David Winslow
I'm joining this thread late, but if the conversation is about current in a
220 volt line, then the current in each leg is the same and you do not add
them together. The same 20 (or 30 or 40) amps that is read on one line is
the same current that is flowing in the other.
CodeEl...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message
<885013532...@dejanews.com>...
>In article <01bd216c$a1fc6820$90a551d1@ron>,
> "RonHen" <rd...@hcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry 20 plus 20 amps don't add up to 20amp's. It is 20amps per. leg
>> for a total of 40 amps.
>> If you put a amp meter on each hot wire you will measure 20amps but you
>> need to size the wire for 40 amps. Your oven is where you will pull the
>> largest load, not the burner's.
>> Be safe
>> Ron
>>
>>
>
>If there's 20 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 20 amps on the other leg,
>it's a 20 amp circuit, not 40.
>
>If there's 30 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 30 amps on the other leg,
>it's a 30 amp circuit, not 60.
>
>If there's 40 amps on one leg of a circuit, and 40 amps on the other leg,
>it's a 40 amp circuit, not 80.
>
>According to Ron, if I have a 20 amp circuit, I need to use #8 wire,
>rated for 40 amps. Why would I use #8 wire on a circuit breaker of only
>20 amps? (maybe for a circuit that's VERY long!) If I have a 40-amp
>circuit, I'd use #8. If I had a 20-amp circuit, I'd use #12.
>
>Still, the proper way to handle the original post's question is to
>install a 40-amp circuit with #8 wire.
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------