How to make half-round fence rails.

[micky]

My fence needs some half-round fence rails (not split rails)

I can buy 8' posts but they are treated and the lumberyard doesnt' want
to split them.

Can I do it myself without getting sick from arsenic poisoning?

They are 4" in diameter. Will a table saw cut that deep?

What about a recirprocating saw, a Sawzall. Any chance I can cut the
whole 8 feet? Without burning out the motor. And splitting down the
middle, rather than one half being much thicker than the other. My
version is from Harbor Freight but I suppose I can buy a good one if it
burns out.

Right now I need to split 2 or 3, but there will be more in the future.
I think the fence has about 30 sections, 2 rails for each.

Any other helpful suggestions?



They used to have these in stock at Lowes. I bought a couple and if I'd
known they would stop selling them, I would have stocked up. Now it
seems no one sells them. 8 foot, half round, 4" diameter fence rails
or non-treated posts.

The ones that get plenty of sun still have 20 or 30 more years left in
them, but the amount of shade is growing.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 7/4/2015 10:29 PM, micky wrote:
> My fence needs some half-round fence rails (not split rails)
>
> I can buy 8' posts but they are treated and the lumberyard doesnt' want
> to split them.
>
> Can I do it myself without getting sick from arsenic poisoning?
>
> They are 4" in diameter. Will a table saw cut that deep?
>
> What about a recirprocating saw, a Sawzall. Any chance I can cut the
> whole 8 feet? Without burning out the motor. And splitting down the
> middle, rather than one half being much thicker than the other. My
> version is from Harbor Freight but I suppose I can buy a good one if it
> burns out.
>
> Right now I need to split 2 or 3, but there will be more in the future.
> I think the fence has about 30 sections, 2 rails for each.
>
> Any other helpful suggestions?

I'd use my bandsaw. If you know anyone that has one, that is first
choice. Tablesaw won't do it unless you flip it over and make a second
pass. Could get tricky handling them though. Recip saw should handle it.

[Dean Hoffman]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 21:29:45 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> My fence needs some half-round fence rails (not split rails)
>
> I can buy 8' posts but they are treated and the lumberyard doesnt' want
> to split them.

Some cut.

Try a farm supply store if you have one nearby.
Rural King has some: http://tinyurl.com/p62cvmv


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[micky]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:12:00 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
<dh0...@windstream.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 21:29:45 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> My fence needs some half-round fence rails (not split rails)
>>
>> I can buy 8' posts but they are treated and the lumberyard doesnt' want
>> to split them.
>
> Some cut.
>
> Try a farm supply store if you have one nearby.
>Rural King has some: http://tinyurl.com/p62cvmv

That chain is not as far as it might be. It's south of Pittsburgh and i
live in Baltimore. Maybe I can come up with annother good reason to go
there, although if it starts to rain on the way back, I'll have to take
all the rails out of my car, put up the top, and wait until it stops
raining!

But I was encouraged by your suggestion and I tried more googling, this
time on half round 8 feet fence maryland

And I found a sawmill about 30 miles from here that was already on my
list of sawmills**, but I wasn't planning to call them because there are
closer ones. It says on his Green Lumber Price List
Half Round Treated Fence Post
8 foot fence post with a 6 to 7 inch face Price $9.50 each.

I'd much rather have 4 inch face, and maybe he's got that too. Also
I've never heard of a half-round wood fence post. So we'll see what he
means by that.

He says " If you need lumber that exceeds these limits call us and we
will let you know if we can accommodate you’re oversize lumber needs. "
So maybe he can accomodate my undersize needs.

He also has Sawdust $ 30.00 per full-size pickup truck load in case
anyone needs sawdust. The butcher shop I used to go to had its floor
covered with sawdust. Originally used to soak up the blood, but I don't
think he had any blood in front of the counter.


**Last fall I made a list of about 6 sawmills within 30 miles west of
here, and I've looked everywhere and can't find the list. Darn. So I
tried to make it again and i've only found one of the six. I left him a
message but he hasn't called me back.

These are trailerable sawmills. They mostly come to your place and saw
up your fallen trees into lumber, Enormous automatic bandsaws that
will make pieces of any thickness, sometimes to make a coffee table.


And I found another one in Frederick, 50 miles from me, that builds
fences iiuc, and mentions in its text: " Rails are usually 8 or 11 feet
long and can be round, half-round or even square or diamond-shaped. "
So maybe t hey'll sell me some, even though they're not a store, or tell
me where they get theirs. OH, oh, those words in quotes are almost
identical to words on a Lowes webpage about how to build a fence: "
Rails are usually 8 feet or 11 feet long. They're round, half-round or
square / diamond-shaped." We'll see if they really have half-round.

[micky]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 00:14:46 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>
>>They used to have these in stock at Lowes. I bought a couple and if I'd
>>known they would stop selling them, I would have stocked up. Now it
>>seems no one sells them. 8 foot, half round, 4" diameter fence rails
>>or non-treated posts.
>>
>>The ones that get plenty of sun still have 20 or 30 more years left in
>>them, but the amount of shade is growing.
>

>If you want to cut these on a table saw you need to make 2 passes
>The easiest way is to screw a 1x board, ripped to the diameter of the
>round on the side of the round piece to stabilize it, run it one way
>against the fence. Then flip it over and run it again.
>The "joint"where the saw cuts meet won't be that bad if your guide
>board is straight.

Sounds good.

>Even though "arsenic" PT lumber is not generally available these days
>I would still wear a respirator grade mask and wash up well
>afterward..

It's treated with something. And I may have to go to a friend's house
to use his saw. That means I have to sweep up the sawdust.

>Also be aware, "PT" lumber is not treated very deep (depending on the
>grade) so the center of your posts are not PT.

I don't think my original rails were treated at all. And the ones with
sunlight are still good after 35 years. The others are gradually being
eaten by something like moss. Green stuff with 1/4" stalks and green
heads. I used a 10% solution, as recommended on the container, of
clorox to kill the green stuff, and that didnt' work at all, so I used
100% solutoin, and even that killed it slowly, and now it's back. So
their diameter has gotten gradually less, and I'm fine with replacing
them if I can do it.


Thanks and thanks all.

[micky]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:55:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>
>> What about a recirprocating saw, a Sawzall. Any chance I can cut the
>> whole 8 feet? Without burning out the motor. And splitting down the
>> middle, rather than one half being much thicker than the other. My
>> version is from Harbor Freight but I suppose I can buy a good one if it
>> burns out.
>>
>> Right now I need to split 2 or 3, but there will be more in the future.
>> I think the fence has about 30 sections, 2 rails for each.
>>
>> Any other helpful suggestions?
>
>I'd use my bandsaw. If you know anyone that has one, that is first
>choice. Tablesaw won't do it unless you flip it over and make a second
>pass. Could get tricky handling them though. Recip saw should handle it.

Maybe I'll try the recip saw first, since I have it, and I won't have to
run around.

I don't know if anyone I know has a bandsaw, I'll check.

The treated posts are not hard to find. There are farm stores around
here, but they sell treated, especially if it's called a post, meaning
part will be underground.

i put an ad on Craig's list and then I checked last night if anyone was
selling them. Got 11 hits on fence rails and by golly one guy was
selling used fence fails. He even had a picture and since I only have a
convertible (which will carry 6 to 8 at a time) and since they're very
dirty he said (algae), he was willing to power wash them and deliver
them for only 10 or 20 dollars more. So I went today and they were
"split rail", diamond shaped. I looked at the picture last night and
saw what I wanted to see.

Last time on Craig's list I wanted to buy a harvest gold stove, and I
mentioned mine had a fire, and a guy looking to buy fire wood found my
ad when he searched on fire. He had a spare stove from the
previous owner that I bought. He was going to buy another spare stove
with the money, this time white.

Thanks

[micky]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 01:07:01 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>And I found a sawmill about 30 miles from here that was already on my

26 miles according to google maps.

>list of sawmills**, but I wasn't planning to call them because there are
>closer ones. It says on his Green Lumber Price List
> Half Round Treated Fence Post
> 8 foot fence post with a 6 to 7 inch face Price $9.50 each.
>
>I'd much rather have 4 inch face, and maybe he's got that too. Also
>I've never heard of a half-round wood fence post. So we'll see what he
>means by that.

The web is amazing. He even has a picture of a stack of his half-rounds
http://thomassawmill.com/Post_2.JPG A boring picture for the rest of
you but for me it shows that some really are 6" but a few on the bottom
look smaller. I don't think treated will look as good as non-treated,
but I still havent' found non-treated unsplit and these are half-round

Thanks for the encouragement to keep looking.

[micky]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 01:40:09 -0400, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 01:12:39 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:

>
>>I don't think my original rails were treated at all. And the ones with
>>sunlight are still good after 35 years. The others are gradually being
>>eaten by something like moss. Green stuff with 1/4" stalks and green
>>heads. I used a 10% solution, as recommended on the container, of
>>clorox to kill the green stuff, and that didnt' work at all, so I used
>>100% solutoin, and even that killed it slowly, and now it's back. So
>>their diameter has gotten gradually less, and I'm fine with replacing
>>them if I can do it.
>

>Back in the olden days we made these split rail fences with aromatic
>red cedar. The parts above ground were untreated and they just
>weathered to a gray but they did need to be high and dry. If they were
>in a shady spot where the water was not driven out by the sun, you got
>that moss. It is just the nature of the beast. PT will get that moss
>too after a few years.
>We didn't have CCA in those days and you put the posts in a barrel of
>creosote up to where the ground level will be. You might be letting
>them soak for a month or so but that gave you time to split all of
>those rails and dig the post holes ;-)

I had some sort of summer job for a while about 1968 and I put lumber in
a long narrow tub about a foot high which was filled with creosote, I
think. But I think I was only to leave it in there 10 minutes or
less. I guess that didn't do too much? Not compared to a month!!! The
foreman I was working for gave no indication he thought that wasn't
enough. I don't know who told him to do it.

I don't know why they had to be treated. I don't know what they were
used for. I almost remember where I worked, not far from where I visit
if I ever visit Chicago again.

[J Burns]

I've read that nowadays more new home construction uses boron for
protection from insects and fungus because it's not very toxic to people
or pets. It's also easy to treat an existing home that way. I believe
you can get 4" of penetration, depending on the concentration. Spray or
brush, wait 24 hours, and repeat.

Ten years ago I bought a gallon of Borrada and used half of it on my
19th-century house. A couple of months ago I discovered that a dripping
plumbing connection had soaked a wooden beam. I applied Borrada so I
wouldn't end up with dry rot.

Borrada has been replaced by Bora-Care. I think the only difference is
the vehicle: propylene glycol for Borrada and ethylene glycol for
Bora-Care. The active ingredient for both is disodium octaborate
tetrahydrate. It's about $70 a gallon. It preserves wood indefinitely
unless its submerged a lot.

Craftsmen who use a lot of it can save money by making it on the stove
with antifreeze, borax, boric acid, and a candy thermometer.

[Uncle Monster]

Do you grind up the candy thermometer before adding it to the mix? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

[dadiOH]

J Burns wrote:

> Borrada has been replaced by Bora-Care. I think the only difference is
> the vehicle: propylene glycol for Borrada and ethylene glycol for
> Bora-Care. The active ingredient for both is disodium octaborate
> tetrahydrate. It's about $70 a gallon. It preserves wood indefinitely
> unless its submerged a lot.

Takes a lot less than submersion to flush it out, rain will do it quickly.
Unless the wood is kept painted.

[J Burns]

On 7/5/15 6:36 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> J Burns wrote:
>
>> Borrada has been replaced by Bora-Care. I think the only difference is
>> the vehicle: propylene glycol for Borrada and ethylene glycol for
>> Bora-Care. The active ingredient for both is disodium octaborate
>> tetrahydrate. It's about $70 a gallon. It preserves wood indefinitely
>> unless its submerged a lot.
>
> Takes a lot less than submersion to flush it out, rain will do it quickly.
> Unless the wood is kept painted.
>

This page supports you.
<http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/family_home/home/design_construction/Safer+Stronger+Smarter/Durability+Hazards/Termites/Termite+Resistance.htm>

One reason I bought it was that I'd read of tests by a federal agency,
maybe the Forest Service. They built plywood or waferboard boxes in
Louisiana and applied the glycol-borate treatment in varying
concentrations. The wateriest concentration had the least penetration.
In the end, those boxes showed a little surface nibbling, but all were
sound.

I wish I could find that page to refresh my memory. As I recall, the
test was 3 years and the wood was exposed to the weather.

My house has a small cellar for the furnace. The hatch slopes down to
the ground. About 1990, 4" of topsoil was added to the yard. That put
the bottom of the hatch door underwater in rainy weather. It was soon
replaced with pressure-treated wood.

The pressure-treated wood didn't hold up many years. In addition, the
pressure-treated frame, screwed to the concrete, was infested with ants
that had large, hard heads, unlike carpenter ants I've seen.

I replaced the door in 2008. Pallet planks aren't supposed to last long,
but I used them anyway. I made a lattice, brushed the borate treatment
onto it and the ant-infested frame. and screwed shingles to the lattice.

I thought the butt ends of the planks, frequently underwater, would soon
leech and rot. Instead, everything has held up so far.

I wouldn't depend on that preservative if I were building on wood posts,
but it may be adequate for fence posts, especially if they were capped.
It wouldn't take much time or money to respray occasionally, and water
would carry the borate all the way to the bottom.

[micky]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 04:54:24 -0400, J Burns <bur...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>> I had some sort of summer job for a while about 1968 and I put lumber in
>> a long narrow tub about a foot high which was filled with creosote, I
>> think. But I think I was only to leave it in there 10 minutes or
>> less. I guess that didn't do too much? Not compared to a month!!! The
>> foreman I was working for gave no indication he thought that wasn't
>> enough. I don't know who told him to do it.
>>
>> I don't know why they had to be treated. I don't know what they were
>> used for. I almost remember where I worked, not far from where I visit
>> if I ever visit Chicago again.
>>
>
>I've read that nowadays more new home construction uses boron for
>protection from insects and fungus because it's not very toxic to people
>or pets. It's also easy to treat an existing home that way. I believe
>you can get 4" of penetration, depending on the concentration. Spray or
>brush, wait 24 hours, and repeat.
>
>Ten years ago I bought a gallon of Borrada and used half of it on my
>19th-century house. A couple of months ago I discovered that a dripping
>plumbing connection had soaked a wooden beam. I applied Borrada so I
>wouldn't end up with dry rot.

Can a water-soaked beam get dry rot?

I thought that was for dry things.

>
>Borrada has been replaced by Bora-Care. I think the only difference is
>the vehicle: propylene glycol for Borrada and ethylene glycol for
>Bora-Care. The active ingredient for both is disodium octaborate
>tetrahydrate. It's about $70 a gallon. It preserves wood indefinitely
>unless its submerged a lot.
>
>Craftsmen who use a lot of it can save money by making it on the stove
>with antifreeze, borax, boric acid, and a candy thermometer.

Interesting.

Especially if it involves candy.

[Tony Hwang]

Depending how many you need. Lot of work to split(cut) them in half. Did
you try to find ones already done? Now most deck railing is shaped
like that. So there must be premade ones.

[J Burns]

On 7/5/15 10:28 PM, micky wrote:
> Can a water-soaked beam get dry rot?

Meruliporia incrassata. Some call it Poria incrassata and others call
it Serpula incrasata. It needs a moisture content of 28% or above to get
started. After that, it will grow when the moisture content is above
19% and lie dormant when it's 15-19%.

I didn't know if I could get the moisture content below 15% in the crawl
space, so I sprayed.

[micky]

Of course I tried to find them. I thought my questions implied that I
know it's a lot of work.

> Now most deck railing is shaped
>like that.

No, it's not. None is.

[micky]

On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:05:31 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 21:54:24 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>micky wrote:
>>> My fence needs some half-round fence rails (not split rails)
>>>
>>> I can buy 8' posts but they are treated and the lumberyard doesnt' want
>>> to split them.
>>>
>>> Can I do it myself without getting sick from arsenic poisoning?
>>>
>>> They are 4" in diameter. Will a table saw cut that deep?
>>>
>>> What about a recirprocating saw, a Sawzall. Any chance I can cut the
>>> whole 8 feet? Without burning out the motor. And splitting down the
>>> middle, rather than one half being much thicker than the other. My
>>> version is from Harbor Freight but I suppose I can buy a good one if it
>>> burns out.
>>>
>>> Right now I need to split 2 or 3, but there will be more in the future.
>>> I think the fence has about 30 sections, 2 rails for each.
>>>
>>> Any other helpful suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They used to have these in stock at Lowes. I bought a couple and if I'd
>>> known they would stop selling them, I would have stocked up. Now it
>>> seems no one sells them. 8 foot, half round, 4" diameter fence rails
>>> or non-treated posts.
>>>
>>> The ones that get plenty of sun still have 20 or 30 more years left in
>>> them, but the amount of shade is growing.
>>>
>>Depending how many you need. Lot of work to split(cut) them in half. Did
>>you try to find ones already done?
>
>Of course I tried to find them.

As a matter of fact, they used to sell these, already shaped at the
ends, at Lowes. When they stopped selling them there, 4 or 5 years ago,
I figured they'd be easy to find online, at fence companies or lumber
yards or lumber companies. but they're not there. Except for the
place nearby that seems to have 8' treated half-round posts. No time
to call them today. Will call them soon.

[DerbyDad03]

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 12:14:54 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

> If you want to cut these on a table saw you need to make 2 passes
> The easiest way is to screw a 1x board, ripped to the diameter of the
> round on the side of the round piece to stabilize it, run it one way
> against the fence. Then flip it over and run it again.
> The "joint"where the saw cuts meet won't be that bad if your guide
> board is straight.

> Even though "arsenic" PT lumber is not generally available these days
> I would still wear a respirator grade mask and wash up well
> afterward..

> Also be aware, "PT" lumber is not treated very deep (depending on the
> grade) so the center of your posts are not PT.

I recently went shopping for PT landscaping timbers. I noticed that the tag on the ends read "Treated To Refusal". Not knowing what that meant, I looked it up.

"Treated To Refusal" means that they pressure treat the wood until it will no longer accept any more treatment. In other words it "refuses" any more treatment.

There are apparently no firm standards for the amount of treatment a "Treated To Refusal" product must contain. Under the same treatment conditions a wet piece of wood will refuse further treatment much sooner than a dry piece of wood. A hard piece of wood will refuse further treatment much sooner than a soft piece of wood.

What this means for the consumer is that you could buy 20 pieces of "Treated To Refusal" wood from the same supplier and get 20 different levels of treatment. You basically have to hope that the manufacturer had some level of quality control in place and wasn't simply grabbing soaking wet wood and running it through their treatment process.

While the following piece may be slightly biased, the point it makes is that wood that is labeled as "Treated To Refusal" does not meet International Building Codes because the consumer/contractor/inspector has no idea how much treatment the wood has accepted.

http://www.wwpinstitute.org/documents/TreatedtoRefusalAlert.pdf