Offgassing from vinyl floors vs. laminate floors

[Harry Muscle]

I know vinyl flooring offgasses toxins for quite some time, however, is
it like carpet where it stops after a few years or does it continue
offgassing for it's whole life.

Does laminate flooring (ie: Pergo and such) offgass also? If so, how
long does it last (years, decades, forever, etc.). Would vinyl or
laminate flooring be worse when it comes to releasing toxins?

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. I know there are other flooring options that are probably better
when it comes to offgassing, etc. (ie: linoleum).

[Speedy Jim]

Harry Muscle wrote:

I am very sensitive to the outgassing you mention.
I installed quite a bit of laminate in the last few years
in my home and the residual outgassing was minimal.
After a few weeks, I couldn't detect it. The laminate
was also very effective in preventing outgassing from the
plywood and particle board which happens to be in the subfloor.

Jim

[# Fred #]

"Harry Muscle" <fake....@stonyx.com> wrote in message
news:1157032732.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I've install a few 1,000 sf of laminates during the last couple of years.
Offgassing I don't notice and don't bother me either but my wife detect it
even its sealed in the boxes - about 600 sf - after a year in storage.

[EXT]

Although I have no numbers or statistics but I would expect that vinyl,
carpet and laminate outgassing is exponential. Something similar to 50%
during the first 100 days, 50% of whats left during the next 100 days, so on
and so on. After a period of time the outgassing is so minimal that it could
not be detected by most people as it would be down to less than 1% of the
original amount.

"Harry Muscle" <fake....@stonyx.com> wrote in message
news:1157032732.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Art]

We were re-doing a condo for my elderly parents and decided to replace an 8
year old vinyl floor with Mannington click together laminate. It was a
sunroom and quite frankly even though the vinyl was 8 years old when the sun
came out you could still smell vinyl. Anyway we had it pulled up and the
underside reeked of vinyl smell even though it was 8 years old. The
replacement Mannington laminate had no smell after a fell days. This is
true even though a vapor barrier (I think it was plastic and fiber,
definitely made by Mannington too) was installed underneath and you would
think that it might give off a bit of gasses for a while. I will never use
vinyl flooring in my home.

"Harry Muscle" <fake....@stonyx.com> wrote in message
news:1157032732.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Michael Halliwell]

Harry Muscle wrote:

Yes, laminates off-gas too, but as far as I can remember, not nearly as
badly (the volumes of volitiles required is considerably less in the
production of laminates than vinyls.

In terms of off-gassing duration, it will vary from product to product.

Michael Halliwell

[lwas...@fellspt.charm.net]

In article <1157032732.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

Yes, people are dropping dead left and right in enormous numbers from
the deadly flooring and carpet gases.

--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwas...@charm.net

[Noozer]

>
>
> Yes, people are dropping dead left and right in enormous numbers from
> the deadly flooring and carpet gases.
>

You wouldn't believe the gasses you can find in sofa cushions after a couple
of years of good use!

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Noozer" <dont...@me.here> wrote in message
news:ngRJg.491147$iF6.272431@pd7tw2no...

Them is aromatics to prevent bug infestations. You can clear out entire
rooms if done properly.

[Michael Halliwell]

Maybe not dropping dead, but it is one of he main reasons why indoor air quality is so much worse than outdoor.

[Melanie]

Why not spend money on real hardwood flooring? If you decide to sell,
your home will be more attractive to home buyers than those who put in
cheap crappy laminate.

~Melanie

[hal...@aol.com]

It might be a big issue for someone with asthma. My wife has that and
we have talked of covering our hardwood junky floors with vinyl. With
dogs we have 4 it would be easy clean up.

[fake....@stonyx.com]

We have a dog and hardwood floors currently which are getting slowly
destroyed by all the running in the house, etc. So we're looking for
something more durable (with less maintenance ... ie: no refinishing
needed, etc.).

Thanks,
Harry

[Michael Halliwell]

Another option, though somewhat expensive (not that hardwood isn't) would be slate...rock is long lasting (providing you're not taking a hammer to it) and doesn't usually require off-gassing (depending on what you use to lay it).

Michael Halliwell

[Goedjn]

>>We have a dog and hardwood floors currently which are getting slowly
>>destroyed by all the running in the house, etc. So we're looking for
>>something more durable (with less maintenance ... ie: no refinishing
>>needed, etc.).

>Another option, though somewhat expensive (not that hardwood isn't)

>would be slate...rock is long lasting (providing you're not taking a
>hammer to it) and doesn't usually require off-gassing (depending on

>what you use to lay it).<br>

It's not obvious that slate will stand rough use better
than properly plasticized hardwood. And when it does
take damage, fixing it is a bigger deal.

[Michael Halliwell]

true enough... I guess it just depends on what you want most.... no offgassing, minimal offgassing, high durability, moderate durability, ease of repair and so forth.  I shouldn't have specified slate....it is just one of many options available for stone flooring.

[fake....@stonyx.com]

Unforutnately slate thruout the whole house (especially bedrooms, and
living rooms) might look a little off ... plus I'm located in Canada,
so slate/tile/rock would be a very cold floor to deal with for a large
part of the year (ie: winter). What ever we go with is gonna have to
look like it's wood.

Thanks for all the suggestions, etc.
Harry

[autobu...@yahoo.com]

Harry Muscle wrote:
> I know vinyl flooring offgasses toxins for quite some time, however, is
> it like carpet where it stops after a few years or does it continue
> offgassing for it's whole life.

Harry:

Alarmism to the contrary, this won't hurt you. Smells (often coupled
with
worry) *can* give people headaches. New car smell used to give me
those
because I didn't like it. I preferred the 'old car' mixture of
gasoline vapors and
mildew, probably much more toxic if you analyze it. :) But there is
such a
thing as exposure far below the limits of toxicity, despite what the
pseudoscientists say.

Keep a window open if the smell bothers you.

Cordially yours:
A. P. M. F.

[Michael Halliwell]

Actually, I've done research in this field as part of my education and yes, APMF is correct that the values encountered are typically lower than the occupational limits. Just don't forget, you're typically in your house a lot longer than the 8 hrs/day or 40hrs/wk of the occupational guidelines.  As you increase time, the allowable concentration decreases due to chronic exposure. Not to fear monger, be alarmist or anything like that, but some of the chemicals released during offgassing may be known carcinogens and may or may not have threshold values for exposure (i.e. any exposure can be "bad"). Of course, how "bad" or how much the risk of cancer increases may not be significant when compared to normal, accepted risks like driving to work.

On the flip side, don't forget the human nose is a surprisingly sensitive detection device and can pick up some odors at very low levels.  What may be an unpleasant odor may not necessarily be harmful.

Generally speaking, I'd say that if you walk into the house and you notice it pretty strongly or if you develop headaches on a regular basis following a major change like new flooring, furniture, carpets or so forth,  you'll probably want to open the windows while the building is occupied and get some additional air exchange happening just to be safe.

Michael Halliwell

[mela...@gmail.com]

Hi, I've worked as a commercial floor covering installer in a major city in Canada for about 40 years.

Linoleum the all natural product made from linseed oil, clay, softwood and cork hasn't had any detrimental health side effects that I can recall.
However there seems to be a growing body of evidence that perhaps PVC or vinyl can be harmful at times.

There are a few occasions when I have been completely sidelined from the toxic effects of PVC.
The very first occurrence was back in 1989 when I brought my brand new 1989 Van home for the first time from the dealership. I only drove it about two or three miles through the city and that night I was violently ill with flu-like symptoms. The following day I was excited to go to work to show off my new truck but unfortunately I was too sick to go. This was from the gassing off of the new PVC dash and front interior panels which were constructed of PVC.

I remember being hard it with the gassing-off effect of PVC on particular job where the material (pure PVC) had been wrapped inside and out with a layer of paper. When we unrolled these sheet goods I remember being hit with a blast that left me woozy for the rest of the day.

While heat welding seams in PVC flooring with a hand held welding gun I remember being so effected by the fumes caused by the heat that I had to where a respirator to keep from getting sick.

Fast forward to July this year and I had been installing a commercial kitchen with abrasive vinyl coved up the wall 4", all week prior to the week that the incident took place.
I started welding the flooring material on a Friday and continued on the Monday.
Tuesday morning I was too sick with diarrhea to make it in to work and by noon that day I was too weak to get out of bed. That evening I was taken to the hospital to have some tests done. I reported flu-like symptoms no-vomiting though this time, only diarrhea, I had multiple blood samples taken from me, more than I ever remember before, chest x-rays, a digital prostate exam, but they found nothing, only to say it might be a virus? I stayed home for a few days and let my diarrhea clear up, then went back to work to work on the Friday to finish heat welding the seams in the kitchen at the new retirement home.
On the following day Saturday, I was too sick with diarrhea again to leave the house.
Why? Was I being effected by the toxic effects of the PVC when it is heated and sometimes even burned to a minor degree, while I heat welding the seams?
Seems so.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Heating soft PVC with Phthalate plasticisers in a confined area is
NOT a good idea. Phthalates are released from the PVC when heated to
high temperature and have been implicated in numerous health issues.

When heating ANY plastic in a confined area best practice is to wear a
fresh air hood or respirator.

As for your question - yes - laminates offgass too. Worse than vinyl
when not heated excessively? I don't know - but genuine hardwood with
a UV cured varnish is about as safe as you can go other than bare
untreated natural wood or cork.