underground cistern

[Kelvin Kersey]

Hi all. I live in a drought area and my (Victorian) house has a large
underground cistern for collecting rainwater. It is empty and has not
been used for many years (I suppose since mains water was installed)
and I'm wondering whether I could use it again by diverting drainpipes
or just the overflow from water butts. Does anyone know anything about
this sort of thing? I wouldn't like to make the ground soggy and have
the house tip into it. Am I being alarmist. Any advice appreciated.
Thanks

[Stormin Mormon]

I'd go to the farm and garden stores around you. Look for the old guy with
the grey hair, and ask if he's got experience with this kind of thing. I'm
thinking that's a good idea, to divert your drain spouts through the
cistern.

Might be some information on the web. How to keep the water from getting
moldy, and so on. Keeping algae away. A Clorox a day keeps the algae away?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Kelvin Kersey" <kelvin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:66e6a2b9-a85c-4a79...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

[RonB]

How large is it? When I think cistern I think about the concrete or
stone lined ones that were close to a lot of houses or farm houses
back in the 50's or 60's; and these were quite old and had become
obsolete with water pluming. Most had a hand pump on top but the
capacity was not huge - probably 500-1,000 gallons or so which put it
in the capacity range of a septic tank. I don't think tipping the
house would even be a concern with one of these; and yes it might be a
great source for garden irrigation, etc.

I guess another concern would be proximity to the house, overflow
diversion and presence of a basement.

RonB

[deadgoose]

I have some limited exposure to this issue. My aunt in Kansas had one
on their farm. It collected rain water, and there was pump, of course.
They also had shallow well, wind mills, etc.

A friend also had a cabin on an island off of the Connecticut coast.
It had a cistern. IIRC, there was an access hatch, and the idea was to
paint it with whitewash periodically for sanitation reasons.

In both cases, the cistern was water tight. I would assume that if
that was still the case, that it would be fine to use it. If you are
just accumulating rain water, and it leaks, it is no worse than the
water coming off the roof being absorbed in the ground.

DO keep us posted on the matter. I am sure that in remote areas that
cisterns are still used, such as down on islands where there is little
rain. I had a friend who was in the Peace Corps on Nevis island, and
they used cisterns all the time there.

/paul W3FIS

[Caesar Romano]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 03:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Kelvin Kersey
<kelvin...@gmail.com> wrote Re underground cistern:

If it's not too large, maybe you could fill it and then monitor the
water level to see if any leaks out. If no leaks, I can't think of a
reason not to use it as you suggest.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Apr 20, 9:50 am, Caesar Romano <S...@uce.gov> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 03:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Kelvin Kersey

> <kelvin.ker...@gmail.com> wrote Re underground cistern:

The other issue would be what the water is then going
to be used for which would determing in part what else
is needed, eg pump.... If he's thinking of using it to
water a lawn the cistern would need a capacity that's matched to the
size of the lawn.

I don't think he has to worry about the house falling into
it, unless it's really close to the house. But with no data
given, who knows?

[dadiOH]

The house where I grew up was built in 1880, had a cistern. No idea what
filled it, presumably roof run off was diverted to it. Had a round iron
cover, used to love lifting it off as huge and colorful slugs accumulated on
the underside :)

There was a hand pump inside the house on the back porch. The only thing
the cistern water was used for was rinsing one's hair after washing; the
city water was very hard. It would be good for irrigation too.

The ground was never soggy, house never tilted.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Since stormwater management fees are being charged by the local
municipality, cisterns are making a comeback here in Waterloo Region
as well. We have watering bans all summer. If you have a cistern and
water with cistern water, you can still have a green lawn. And reduced
"taxes"

[tange...@toyotamail.com]

Those things were usually built quite well. Originally the rain gutters
were sent into it. Do it again, then get a small pump for the garden
hose to use it.

Water butts? HUH????????

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 03:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Kelvin Kersey

[Tomsic]

"dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:jms6fp$if4$1...@dont-email.me...

> Kelvin Kersey wrote:
>> Hi all. I live in a drought area and my (Victorian) house has a large
>> underground cistern for collecting rainwater. It is empty and has not
>> been used for many years (I suppose since mains water was installed)
>> and I'm wondering whether I could use it again by diverting drainpipes
>> or just the overflow from water butts. Does anyone know anything about
>> this sort of thing? I wouldn't like to make the ground soggy and have
>> the house tip into it. Am I being alarmist. Any advice appreciated.
>> Thanks
>
> The house where I grew up was built in 1880, had a cistern. No idea what
> filled it, presumably roof run off was diverted to it. Had a round iron
> cover, used to love lifting it off as huge and colorful slugs accumulated
> on the underside :)
>
> There was a hand pump inside the house on the back porch. The only thing
> the cistern water was used for was rinsing one's hair after washing; the
> city water was very hard. It would be good for irrigation too.
>
> The ground was never soggy, house never tilted.

There's always water in the ground -- assuming that you get some rain on a
regular basis -- so ending up with soft soggy ground that wet enough to make
the foundation shift is unlikely. Water moves through the ground; it
doesn't stay in one place unless you are in a low spot and have a layer of
solid rock under the soil. If that's the case, your property, basement,
etc. would probably flood and turn into a pond with every heavy rain.

But, test the cistern. Divert some rain water into it, then remove the
inlet, check the water level and then see if the water level goes down over
time. If the level stays fairly constant, you've got a nice source of lawn
and garden water. Cisterns that I'm familiar with, and especially if
they're lined with stones rather than concrete, will leak some.

Tomsic

[cedar...@aol.com]

Many of the old southern plantations had underground cisterns, made of brick and lined with mortar and sealed. Other underground cisterns were similarly made.

Many wells, way back then, were not deep wells, so a well would often run dry, especially in the summer months, so collecting water for, mostly, utility was common place. The underground cistern was the collection pot, if one didn't have a wooden aboveground one, which was fairly common for many southern homes, also.

It was not uncommon for a cistern to spring a leak, so they had to be maintained, repaired and/or resealed every several years. When electricity came along, for pumps, many of these cisterns were abandoned, but many were abandoned when they began to leak too much, anyway. When the brick & mortar became too bad, dislodged, etc., folks just abandoned that cistern and built a new one. Many of the old abandoned cisterns were then used for garbage disposal. These old cisterns sites are a favorite place for bottle and other collectors to search for old bottles, sometimes tools, old shoes... the buckles are collector items, same with clothes buttons, and similar old relics.

There's an old wives tale that you plant a fig tree over an abandoned cistern... it'll grow very well and produce lots of figs. There is also speculative logic that this fig tree planting was more to prevent children from playing near the abandoned hole area, a possible dangerous scenario if it was to cave in. *Even today, children fall into abandoned holes, of some sort.

I would highy suspect your cistern will leak. You would need to inspect the cistern to find out just how bad it is and what needs to be done to repair it, if it can be reasonably repaired. Your best bet may be to install a septic tank into the hole and back fill any extra cistern space.

Sonny

[JIMMIE]

My father in law used to that he had 7000 gal cistern. I didnt think he would get enough water to make a difference but he could fill it in one afternoon rain. He collected water from about 4000 sq ft of roof surface(two buildings)At first he just used the water on his garden but once he found out how to treat it he used it for potable water too. The cistern should be sealed, my F I L used to build concrete swimming pools so he painted his with epoxy paint. You also need some drainage to protect from overfills. He piped his out to the garden. This started out to supplement his well but in the end was his main source of water for his home.

[Jules Richardson]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 03:46:06 -0700, Kelvin Kersey wrote:

> Hi all. I live in a drought area and my (Victorian) house has a large
> underground cistern for collecting rainwater. It is empty and has not
> been used for many years (I suppose since mains water was installed) and
> I'm wondering whether I could use it again by diverting drainpipes or
> just the overflow from water butts.

Possibly. I expect it's solid enough - a space filled with water
shouldn't cuse any more problems than a space filled with air. Who knows
what is decaying down there or if there are cracks in the walls through
which stuff might leak - I'd say let it fill up, then get the water
tested before using any of it (and possibly get it tested again
periodically for a couple of years just to make sure nothing nasty's
getting in there)

cheers

Jules

[Larry W]

Seems that in the likely case that the cistern is leaking, a quick
repair using modern materials would be something like an edpm pond
liner or roofing material.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

[Hank]

My daughter put one in a couple months ago. 1500 gallon. She has a
well but it wasn't supplying enough H2O. She had to get a permit
(which you may not). Do you have a septic or city sewer? If you are
just using it to water the lawn, you shouldn't have a problem. If you
plan on drinking it and there is a septic system close, it may leach
into it if either leaks, so be careful.

Like others have said, it may leak. You can get water delivered the
first time pretty cheap and a lot easier than digging down and putting
in piping to fill it off your roof. Fill it and see if it leaks before
preceding any further. If it doesn't leak, then you can go to the
expense of a pump, piping and etc.

Hank

[tange...@toyotamail.com]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 07:39:30 -0700 (PDT), cedar...@aol.com wrote:

>when electricity came along, for pumps, many of these cisterns were abandoned,

>but many were abandoned when they began to leak too much, anyway. When the brick
>& mortar became too bad,

I have a cistern that's 15 feet deep, about 10 foot diameter. It's
right near my well, and there were four steel pieces of iron sticking
out of the ground, which was the base for the windmill that once stood
there. The windmill was gone when I bought the farm and an electric
submercible pump was in the well. I cut off those 4 steel pieces
because I was always tripping on them. The well's pressure tank was in
a barn while has collapsed. I had to dig up near the well, and re-route
the pipes into the cistern, where I put my pressure tank, knowing it
would not freeze down there. It works fine, but breaking thru the wall
of that cistern was a huge job. It's all made of rocks mortared
together and the interior was coated with concrete. The rock walls were
at least 2 feet thick.

Anyhow, it's solid as can be, although some of that concrete coating has
falled off on the inside, exposing the rock. There were a few cracks at
the frost line, which I repaired with mortar, to which I added extra
portland cement to make it real strong. My cistern is meant to stay dry
these days. Even after heavy rain, it stays pretty dry, but there is a
little leakage. I have a sump pump in the bottom to make sure it stays
dry. The pressure tank is on top of a couple cinder blocks so it dont
sit in any water, since sump pumps always leave an inch of water in the
bottom. I have a few patio blocks down there to stand on, so I'm not
standing in that inch of water when I do repairs.

My farm was built in the late 1800s, so that cistern is probably at
least 100 years old. I did of course have to build a new cover for it.
The original one was rotted. I built a new one with treated wood, and
covered it with a piece of metal barn steel. It's made so it cant slide
off or move, to prevent anyone (or animals) from falling in.

[Paul Drahn]

Does anyone remember the court case quite a few years back in Colorado
where a woman set up rain barrels around her house and filled them from
the rain and melted snow. She used the water on her garden, as I recall.

A local rancher who had water rights for all the water from the creek
that flowed through the woman's property. He had her arrested for
stealing his water. The judge agreed and made her dump all the water and
never collect water again.

Perhaps only in Colorado, but could also be true in other states.

Paul

[rlz]

> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've heard of other cases very similar here in Colorado.
Unfortunately, Colorado water rights are a serious matter, as Colorado
is only one of two states where water only flows out of state. I live
in a suburb of Denver, and the city has an ordinance that homeowners
can not collect rain water.

Robin

[Tomsic]

"rlz" <ro...@ellzey.net> wrote in message
news:7aacae33-d0d5-49d9...@h9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

And here in Ohio we get credits on our sewer bill if we install rain barrels
and plant swales to catch the rain water so it soaks into the ground rather
than running into the storm drains.

Tomsic

[RonB]

After my first post a thought came to me that I had forgotten One
concern with cisterns is children. Make sure the top is secure
because kids have drowned in them. Aannnnd......Some kids enjoy
putting their siblings or cousins in dry cisterns. Experience reminds
me that a concrete walled cistern is damned hard to get out of.

[Tom Horne]

On Apr 20, 10:30 pm, tangeri...@toyotamail.com wrote:
> Those things were usually built quite well.  Originally the rain gutters
> were sent into it.  Do it again, then get a small pump for the garden
> hose to use it.
>
> Water butts?  HUH????????
>

Rain barrels.

--
Tom Horne

[The Daring Dufas]

I could swear I read something about a government agency somewhere that
went after folks for catching rain water claiming they were stealing
government property. o_O

TDD

[NotMe]

"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in message
news:jppbe4$ajr$1...@dont-email.me...

Wasn't the government but one of the western states Indian tribes who
appariently had the water rights to all rain that fell on the land.