Bob Vila is a Goon

Marty Spaulding

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Mar 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/3/97

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Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.

This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.

Put it on the VISA.

What do you think ?

bob...@worldnet.att.net

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Mar 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/3/97

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I think if you're still seeing Bob Vila on new "This Old House" episodes
ya oughta consider cutting back on the medication<g>.

Wup

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Mar 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/3/97

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Marty Spaulding (mar...@net-link.net) wrote:
: Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
: old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
: yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.

: This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.

well, i don't watch the show to learn how to do anything specific....it's
more of a "high-level overview".....and for seeing how different the before
and after homes can look....

--
.............................................................................
..For Hints/Tips/Tricks/Walkthroughs for 3DO, Playstation, and Saturn games..
............visit The 32-Bit Hint Spot at http://www.ripco.com/~wup..........
.............................................................................

Casey

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Mar 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/3/97

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Marty, You need a few points clarified.
1. Bob hasn't hosted TOH in about 7 years.
2. His present show is called "Home Again with Bob Vila". Therein he is a
shill for Sears Roebuck Corp.
3. Bob is not a goon per se, but a "Hired Goon". Subtle difference, yet
important.
TOH continues to lead the pack of home improvement shows, I feel its the
best of breed.
If you meant Bob's current show, Home Again, I'm in agreement there. It is
a "showcase" for Sears Crapsman tools. But you must admit that the current
season's series involving a restoration/rehab of a large historic house in
Charleston (?) has some neat stuff, indeed.
Casey

Marty Spaulding <mar...@net-link.net> wrote in article
<331A81...@net-link.net>...

> Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
> old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
> yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>
> This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.
>

da...@cris.com

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

to

>Marty, You need a few points clarified.
>1. Bob hasn't hosted TOH in about 7 years.
>2. His present show is called "Home Again with Bob Vila". Therein he is a
>shill for Sears Roebuck Corp.
>3. Bob is not a goon per se, but a "Hired Goon". Subtle difference, yet
>important.
>TOH continues to lead the pack of home improvement shows, I feel its the
>best of breed.
>If you meant Bob's current show, Home Again, I'm in agreement there. It is
>a "showcase" for Sears Crapsman tools. But you must admit that the current
>season's series involving a restoration/rehab of a large historic house in
>Charleston (?) has some neat stuff, indeed.
>Casey

Is it just me or is Bob's house painted some pretty funky colors?

But I'll admit, a lot of neat, top of the line stuff in the
interior(that I'm sure he's paying dearly for). Maybe he's getting a
discount from Riley who seems to be all over that house.

Danny
da...@cris.com

hi...@millcomm.com

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

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In <331A81...@net-link.net>, Marty Spaulding <mar...@net-link.net> writes:
>Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
>old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
>yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>
>This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.

Bob Vila hasn't been on This Old House for several years now. Have you
been watching old reruns?

Dan Hicks
Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks

Marty Spaulding

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

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OK you got me.

But *whatever* the show is called, it's a joke.

Rick Cooper

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

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On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 02:45:47 -0500, Marty Spaulding
<mar...@net-link.net> wrote:

>> Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
>> old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
>> yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>>
>> This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.
>>

>> Put it on the VISA.
>>
>> What do you think ?

I think you have your shows mixed up. Bob Vila doesn't host "This Old
House" anymore and hasn't for several years. He was dropped because of
some commercials he made for Sears in the off season. Norm is still
there but the official Host is Steve Thomas and the format of the show
is the same as it has been for 8 or so years. (the beginning was far
more crude)

You are thinking of, I believe, "Home Again" and it's produced by
Sears so commercialism is it's very foundation.

Rick Cooper
rjco...@ibm.net

bow...@eisner.decus.org

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

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"Casey " <cas...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> TOH continues to lead the pack of home improvement shows, I feel its the
> best of breed.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong :-)

TOH used to lead the pack. Hometime is a much more down-to-earth, typically
do-it-yourself project orient, show. If I wanted to watch a travelogue to
SantaFe or Phoenix or where ever it is they are now, I'd watch the Travel
Channel. What was the last project they (TOH) did that was affordable by "Joe
Average"? TOH works on project houses where they "reveal" the owners (a
significant part of the next question). When was the last time any of those
owners put in significant (or any for that matter) sweat equity? HT doesn't
attempt to involve the "real" owners of the houses (except for their Habitat
segments), which I think is somewhat of a shame, but because they don't I can't
criticize them for not showing the sweat equity.

Bruce

Edward W. Scott

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

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dbodkin (dbo...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: Scene:
: Carpenter getting to one of Bob's jobsites with a cast on his hand and
: forearm.

: So what happened? He cut a finger off... Not very funny but I dont
: think I would have aired that to the TV audience.....

I loved this as well. Stands in remarked contrast to Norm's "reminders
about shop safety" that he gives at the beginning of every New Yankee
Workshop. I'm suprised that the producers had Reilly back after that
incident.

I can see it now, "Reilly, how did you chop you're finger off anyway?"

"Well, Bob, don't be a dumb-ass like me and remove the blade gard from
your table-saw. By the way, about that framing job that I did on that
Charleston place..."

--

Ed Scott ShrEdding SF Bay
sh...@netcom.com ..Windwing/ASD..

Casey

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

to

Bruce!!
Case in point: "House with Character". Cost for this 5000 sqft pile,
probably $2 million. Cost of the home theater and computer controls
probably in excess of the average American's entire home.
Sorry, but you can't say that Dean & ? cater to Joe six-pack and Mary
housecoat. Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.
Every Hometime is about Dean & ? playing house and acting like they can
swing a hammer, butter a brick, lay a tile, or paint a wall. Usually they
can't, nor do they, in fact.
The most annoying thing, though on the Nantucket project on TOH was Norm
and Steve's incessant prattle about the fishing. Very self-indulgent
excess. Hope it doesn't spell the beginning of the end for TOH. I in fact
really like the travelogue segments, because they place the project in
context, and it iss often the only way I would ever get to see a particular
historic structure, or even a manufacturing process.
I know a good construction detail when I see one, and I've seen more of
them from Norm and Tommy Silva then I imagine I'll ever see from Bob's show
plus Hometime put together. Maybe the shows should merge and we'd watch
"Hometime Again with Bob Vila, Dean & ? and Three-fingers Riley"
Casey

bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote in article <1997Mar4.084837.1@eisner>...

> "Casey " <cas...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> > TOH continues to lead the pack of home improvement shows, I feel its
the
> > best of breed.
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong :-)
>
> TOH used to lead the pack. Hometime is a much more down-to-earth,
typically
> do-it-yourself project orient, show. If I wanted to watch a travelogue
to
> SantaFe or Phoenix or where ever it is they are now, I'd watch the Travel
> Channel. What was the last project they (TOH) did that was affordable by
"Joe
> Average"?

<<Snip>>
>
> Bruce
>

dbodkin

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97

to

On 3 Mar 1997 20:40:16 GMT, "Casey " <cas...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Marty, You need a few points clarified.
>1. Bob hasn't hosted TOH in about 7 years.
>2. His present show is called "Home Again with Bob Vila". Therein he is a
>shill for Sears Roebuck Corp.
>3. Bob is not a goon per se, but a "Hired Goon". Subtle difference, yet
>important.

>TOH continues to lead the pack of home improvement shows, I feel its the
>best of breed.

>If you meant Bob's current show, Home Again, I'm in agreement there. It is
>a "showcase" for Sears Crapsman tools. But you must admit that the current
>season's series involving a restoration/rehab of a large historic house in
>Charleston (?) has some neat stuff, indeed.
>Casey
>

>Marty Spaulding <mar...@net-link.net> wrote in article
><331A81...@net-link.net>...

>> Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
>> old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
>> yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>>
>> This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.
>>
>> Put it on the VISA.
>>
>> What do you think ?
>>

My favorite. Albeit NOT the carpenter's/

Scene:
Carpenter getting to one of Bob's jobsites with a cast on his hand and
forearm.

So what happened? He cut a finger off... Not very funny but I dont
think I would have aired that to the TV audience.....

Except maybe.. kiddies.. dont try this at home!!!!

Dave Bodkin

Joel R. Maillie

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

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I seem to recall reading in the past year about a woman suing Bob Vila
after buying his house. He testified in a deposition that he is not a home
repair contractor, has never held a license, and has no expertise in home
repair matters. Perhaps it was a Dateline story or one of the other TV
mags. Anyway, his defense to the charge that he sold a defective house was
that he was, after all, only a hired -- uh, not "goon" -- actor?emcee?
something like that.

Bob Vila: Would you buy a used house from this man? NOT!

dbodkin <dbo...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<5ffvp8$a...@camel0.mindspring.com>...

mike

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

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Bob asks some pretty dumb questions like what are you doing now.
and the answer was Well bob I am sharpening my pencil

John Hascall

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

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Edward W. Scott <sh...@netcom.com> wrote:
}dbodkin (dbo...@mindspring.com) wrote:
}: Scene:

}: Carpenter getting to one of Bob's jobsites with a cast on his hand and
}: forearm.
}: So what happened? He cut a finger off... Not very funny but I dont
}: think I would have aired that to the TV audience.....

}I loved this as well. Stands in remarked contrast to Norm's "reminders

}about shop safety" that he gives at the beginning of every New Yankee
}Workshop.

I love Norm's show, but for all his safety warnings,
he never can remember to use the wallet guard.

``In this week's show we'll construct a $13 birdhouse
using $13,000 worth of tools.''

John
--
John Hascall, Software Engr. Shut up, be happy. The conveniences you
ISU Computation Center demanded are now mandatory. -Jello Biafra
mailto:jo...@iastate.edu
http://www.cc.iastate.edu/staff/systems/john/welcome.html <-- the usual crud

Terry Kennedy

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

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Ujvary <keith_ujvary@READ_MY_SIG.com> writes:
> Sorry, guys, but Bob Vila INVENTED home reno TV. Whether or not
> you like him, you've got to give him that much. Before the first
> TOH (and when it started it was expected to be a one reno series)
> there was nothing to watch in this vein. The man was a pioneer
> and in our (currently under renovation) house, the name Bob Vila
> is spoken in reverant whispers, chanted over new tools to prevent rust
> and held higher in repsect than even the mighty perrenial Norm.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that Bob Vila's
shows are great if you want to watch other people fix houses, but if
you want to learn how to do it yourself, Hometime is much better.

In response to some other comments in this thread:

Old "This Old House" episodes are repackaged as "The Renovation Guide"
and show up on stations like TLC.

The "Bob's stupid question" followed by "Well, Bob, let me show you"
is something that's scripted. I'd hope that Bob knows these things (at
least by participating in his show for this long 8-).

I am annoyed by Bob shilling for Sears tools/paints/whatever. At least
I found "Tim Allen Signature Series" tools amusing - given all the goofs
on "Home Improvement", why anyone would want to buy the tools that do
*that* is beyond me...

I remember hearing on the radio a few years back that someone who bought
one of Bob's Old Houses ran into trouble with their local historical com-
mission and had to un-do/re-do almost all of the TOH work. While I think
that historical commissions/community associations can be a pain in the
butt, especially for interiors that aren't visible, I would expect Bob and
the TOH crew to be aware of their existence and follow their regulations.

Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing
te...@spcvxa.spc.edu St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
+1 201 915 9381 (voice) +1 201 435-3662 (FAX)

James Sillhart

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

to

In article <331A81...@net-link.net>, Marty Spaulding
<mar...@net-link.net> wrote:

> Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
> old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
> yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>
> This Old House is a sell out. Typical 90's crass commercialization.
>
> Put it on the VISA.
>
> What do you think ?

I miss Bob on TOH. He's a straight shooter and often considers the
financial side of things that many of the subsequent TOH shows don't seem
to consider anymore. I don't watch Home Again or whatever it is called
because I can't stand a half hour home repair show with commericials. I
was just thinking this weekend of how "flowery" TOH has gotten. They
spend half of the show clamming and trading corny one liners. C'mon guys
we want to see more tours of power tool factories!

road...@worldnet.att.net

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

to

OnTue, 04 Mar 1997 02:07:07 GMT,While trying to cope with a non 49er
Super Bowl this year, I saw you wrote,

>My favorite. Albeit NOT the carpenter's/
>

>Scene:
>Carpenter getting to one of Bob's jobsites with a cast on his hand and
>forearm.
>
>So what happened? He cut a finger off... Not very funny but I dont
>think I would have aired that to the TV audience.....
>

>Except maybe.. kiddies.. dont try this at home!!!!
>
>Dave Bodkin

Funny how the guy who works with bob on home again always seems to
have bandages and blackened thumbs and such. He's no norm!
>
>
>

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Mar 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/5/97

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Terry Kennedy wrote:

< S N I P >

> I am annoyed by Bob shilling for Sears tools/paints/whatever.

So was PBS which is why Bob quit doing TOH. In all the years since Bob
"VEEEEE-LAH" have you ever seen Steve Thomas hawking tools?
--
YrHmbl&ObdntSrvnt
David J. McBride
Houston, Texas

"Involvement and commitment are much like ham and eggs: the chicken is
involved - the pig is committed."

Trelane

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 02:45:47 -0500, Marty Spaulding
<mar...@net-link.net> wrote:

>Once upon a time "This old house" was a good program. Now it is dear
>old Bob on a tour of what his contractors are doing. For the DIY (do it
>yourself) person this show is now devoid of any meaning at all.
>

Do ya remember the episode of 'Home Again' where the engineer
designing the leach field kept answering Bob with, "That Is Correct!"
I was in stiches after he said it for the 50th time.

--
tre...@nbnet.nb.ca
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/trelane/

'He will wipe away all tears from their eyes.'
- Rev 21:4

Trelane

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 02:45:47 -0500, Marty Spaulding
<mar...@net-link.net> wrote:

Hey!!!!!!!!!! Bobbies good for a laugh! His policy:

Buy it cheap for about $10.00.
Demolish it all except one 2x4.
Rebuild it for $300,000.00.

Ohhhhhhhhhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Bob!

hehehehehe

bow...@eisner.decus.org

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

Casey!

>Case in point: "House with Character". Cost for this 5000 sqft pile,
>probably $2 million. Cost of the home theater and computer controls
>probably in excess of the average American's entire home.

And they admitted *up front* that they were departing from their norm (parden
the pun) on that one. In contrast, take a look at the cost of the any of the
following vs the value of the house.

- The Weatherby estate
- The Wickwire house
- The place in Hawaii
- The Santa Fe project
- The Malibu house
- The Nantucket project

as compared to

- The Four Square
- (any of the Suzanne [what a waste] Egly projects)
- (any of the Peggy Nap projects)
- Many of the Joanne Leibler projects
- Adding a Deck
- The Sauna project

How many in the first list are "do it yourself" type projects?
How many in the second list are?

I watch shows like this to find out tips and techniques for DIY projects and
historic renovation/restoration projects. I've gotten some tips from both, but
far more from HT than TOH.

>Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.

Every TOH is about a *RICH* family and the house they want to improve. None of
them are about "Joe Average" family.

>The most annoying thing, though on the Nantucket project on TOH was Norm
>and Steve's incessant prattle about the fishing. Very self-indulgent

It's not just the prattle about fishing. It's the side trips to what them
plaster the roof of a 18th century church in the southwest. I don't give a
rats fanny about how to plaster the roof of a church. Sure, seeing the church
was impresive, but it's not "part and parcel" of what a "how to" show on home
repair should be covering.

>I know a good construction detail when I see one, and I've seen more of
>them from Norm and Tommy Silva then I imagine I'll ever see from Bob's show
>plus Hometime put together. Maybe the shows should merge and we'd watch
>"Hometime Again with Bob Vila, Dean & ? and Three-fingers Riley"

No argument on "Home Again" with 3-fingers. I watch that for a good laugh.

Bruce

Rich Kula

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <331e2ec7...@allnews.nbnet.nb.ca>, tre...@nbnet.nb.ca
(Trelane) wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 02:45:47 -0500, Marty Spaulding
> <mar...@net-link.net> wrote:
>
> Hey!!!!!!!!!! Bobbies good for a laugh! His policy:
>
> Buy it cheap for about $10.00.
> Demolish it all except one 2x4.
> Rebuild it for $300,000.00.
>
> Ohhhhhhhhhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Bob!
>
> hehehehehe
>
> --

>ROFL!!!!!!!!! I just saw over in rec. woodworking that somebody posted
his lawsuit deposition in California where he is going to court for shoddy
work on a Californian couple's house. I saw that on CNN and was laughing
like crazy when they were asking him questions that eroded that thin thin
veil of disguise that television masterfully DOES NOT do. Bob usually has
that Chesire-cat grin (not quite as bad as born-with-a-smirk Roy
Underhill) but , jeez, when they showed him just *bare and exposed* it was
really quite a sight.He looked just so forlorn and looking like he was
going to meet his Waterloo. But then, with CNN's angles-savvy camera shots
it showed Mr. Bob with 6 o'clock shadow that rivals that Nixon vs. Kennedy
debate of the '50's. And to boot they showed the workmanship of plumbing
runs and it was simply unbelievable.!!

Paraphrasing:

Q: Have you ever been licensed as a general contractor?
A: No

Q: Have you ever been domociled or associate with other trade contractors?
A: No

Q: Did you oversee or guide the aforementioned work at the house in question?
A: No

Q: Did you yourself perform the renovation work at the house in question?
A: Yes

I like him. I have friends that just FANTASIZE about him and his
Craftsman tools. I woould have no problems sitting down having a beer with
him..

Rich

Rich Kula

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

> >The most annoying thing, though on the Nantucket project on TOH was Norm
> >and Steve's incessant prattle about the fishing. Very self-indulgent
>

> How about the episode when they both built some litle Bahston rowbout
or pirogue or whatever and they went into the Harbour and raced each other
for what was at least 10 minutes. It was so maudlin seeing them paddling
and having each other looking over theie shoulders competing with fast
action paddling techniques. It was completly extraneous to the show. And
when they rowed back into the dock there wasn't even a heightened gasp of
air from either's lungs that would have the average Joe blowing his gut
coughing up lung butter.

ooookkkkkay guys

Rich

Edward W. Scott

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:

: >Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.

: Every TOH is about a *RICH* family and the house they want to improve. None of
: them are about "Joe Average" family.

In recent year, yes, but classic TOH shows (yes ones with BV) that they
show on TLC aren't. The New Jersey couple with the Cape Cod, the
Craftsman bungalow in Santa Barbara, etc...

I learn stuff from both shows, but I'd like to see a more realistic home
improvement show. One where the water's out 'cause dad's working on the
plumbing, the kids are screaming and the wife's bitching. Dad bashed his
thumb with his hammer, the grouting job looks like hell and took 3 times
longer than anticipated, everything is out of level.

Now that'd be reality programming.

Bob De Weese

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

road...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

(snip)

> >
> Steve Thomas is a dweeb.

No. Steve Thomas is a rich yuppie who can better relate with the other
rich yuppies. (The only ones left, watching This Old Mansion.)

> "Return here with a shrubbery,
> or you will never pass this wood alive!"

"Let's go to the stoning!!!"

Bobby
--
Bob De Weese
Certified Professional Locksmith
bear...@bigfoot.com

*******************************************************************
* "The secret to effective communication is knowing what to say, *
* how to say it, and whom to say it to." *
*******************************************************************

Alison Meyer

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <331e2fdd...@allnews.nbnet.nb.ca>, tre...@nbnet.nb.ca
(Trelane) wrote:

> Do ya remember the episode of 'Home Again' where the engineer
> designing the leach field kept answering Bob with, "That Is Correct!"
> I was in stiches after he said it for the 50th time.

The one time TOH had me on the floor was when Norm was explaining to Steve
how a radiant heating system in a concrete floor was so sophisticated that
if something ever went wrong, they could pinpoint where the problem was so
that they wouldn't have to rip up the whole floor. He went on to explain
that they would then be able to find out who'd installed that piece and
then hunt him down and shoot him. Totally deadpan, with Steve trying to
figure out whether or not Norm was serious. . .

bow...@eisner.decus.org

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <umkula00-060...@ts5u-16.cc.umanitoba.ca>, umku...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Rich Kula) writes:
>
> How about the episode when they both built some litle Bahston rowbout
> or pirogue or whatever and they went into the Harbour and raced each other
> for what was at least 10 minutes. It was so maudlin seeing them paddling
> and having each other looking over theie shoulders competing with fast
> action paddling techniques. It was completly extraneous to the show. And
> when they rowed back into the dock there wasn't even a heightened gasp of
> air from either's lungs that would have the average Joe blowing his gut
> coughing up lung butter.

I think you're talking about the 2 part New Yankee Workshop where Norm built
the sailboat called a clancey. But of course that was a sailboat and I don't
recall them paddling it (which is why no lung butter [but it would be funny to
see]), so maybe I'm wrong...

Bruce

H.D. Moss

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <umkula00-060...@ts5u-16.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
umku...@cc.umanitoba.ca says...

> I like him. I have friends that just FANTASIZE about him and his
>Craftsman tools. I woould have no problems sitting down having a beer with
>him..
>
> Rich

Speaking of beer, I remember Bob on TOH when they were still doing modest
projects and the homeowner would "help".
The home on this series of shows had a basement full of old lead and black
pipe and had to be removed. Norm grabs a sledgehammer, shows the owner
how to break the fittings, (he beats on one ell about 20 times before it
finally breaks), then he hands the poor forlorn looking guy the sledge and
Bob says to Norm (paraphrasing here) Well, let's go get a beer, that'll keep
him busy for a while. Off they head to the truck yukking it up......

H.D.

bow...@eisner.decus.org

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <shredE6...@netcom.com>, sh...@netcom.com (Edward W. Scott) writes:
> bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>
> : >Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.
>
> : Every TOH is about a *RICH* family and the house they want to improve. None of
> : them are about "Joe Average" family.
>
> In recent year, yes, but classic TOH shows (yes ones with BV) that they
> show on TLC aren't. The New Jersey couple with the Cape Cod, the
> Craftsman bungalow in Santa Barbara, etc...

Which is what I contended in a much earlier note, that TOH had gone past the
DIY show into "fantasy land" (I didn't use those exact words, but the sentiment
was there)... The Every rich comment was too broad, I apologize for my
transgression...

Bruce

Kelley Mascher

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

ali...@datalife.com (Alison Meyer) writes:

snip
>It's nice to see how people on TOH can redo their homes on modest $50,000
>budgets with a crew of professionals, and often you can get ideas on how
>to do things better yourself by watching them, but if you're doing
>something on your own, the more basic the information, the better. And if
>you're watching Hometime, you also don't have to hear the name "Steve"
>every three seconds. (I think it's in the contract. "You must say
>Steve's name several times every sentence. As in, 'Steve, what this
>machine does, Steve, is sand a large surface, Steve, all at once, Steve,
>removing the finish without raising the grain, Steve.'")

I think you dropped a zero in your budget number. :)

Kelley
--
Kelley Mascher (206) 528-2713
Children's Hospital & Med. Center mas...@u.washington.edu
Audiology Research Seattle, Washington USA

Bob De Weese

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

Edward W. Scott wrote:
>
> bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>
> : >Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.
>
> : Every TOH is about a *RICH* family and the house they want to improve. None of
> : them are about "Joe Average" family.
>
> In recent year, yes, but classic TOH shows (yes ones with BV) that they
> show on TLC aren't. The New Jersey couple with the Cape Cod, the
> Craftsman bungalow in Santa Barbara, etc...
>

> I learn stuff from both shows, but I'd like to see a more realistic home
> improvement show.

About ten years ago, (give or take), there was a local (Baltimore) show
that aired on Sunday mornings called "The Old House Works". The guy (it
would be an insult to call him a BV wannabee), would show things like
repairing screens, replacing weights in old wooden double-hung windows,
repairing the old tin ceilings (still a lot of those around here),
replacing light fixtures, and other _basic_ stuff that just about
anybody could do/afford.

Ah1 The good ol' days!

I don't want to put in a mega-buck gourmet kitchen or convert a
"mud-room" into a deluxe home fitness center (w/juice bar). I just want
to club-out my freakin' basement!

Alison Meyer

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Mar 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/6/97

to

In article <keith_ujvary-0...@news.sunshine.net>,
keith_ujvary@READ_MY_SIG.com (Ujvary) wrote:
> I see it more like: if you want to see how a pro does it, watch TOH.
> If you want to see the amateur way watch Hometime.

However. . .if you're a do-it-yourselfer, Hometime offers the best
advice. Steve Thomas does a very good job of telling you here's how a
professional does it, now go out and hire yourself one. Hometime shows
you how to do it yourself on a very basic level. Rarely do they take on
projects that have to be completely contracted out. Yes, it's more
simplistic, but to people like me and hubby who learn by doing (and by not
doing it >that< way next time!) Hometime is much more accessible.

Ask a professional
> drywaller what he thinks of the methods shown on Hometime. He will
> laugh.

But he's got the tools and the extra guys. Average folks want to know how
>they< can do it best, even if it's not the way the pros do it. If it
holds together, looks good, and can be done on a budget, so what if a
professional can do it better or faster?

hi...@millcomm.com

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

In <shredE6...@netcom.com>, sh...@netcom.com (Edward W. Scott) writes:
>bow...@eisner.decus.org wrote:
>
>: >Every TOH is about a family and the house they want to improve.
>
>: Every TOH is about a *RICH* family and the house they want to improve. None of
>: them are about "Joe Average" family.
>
>In recent year, yes, but classic TOH shows (yes ones with BV) that they
>show on TLC aren't. The New Jersey couple with the Cape Cod, the
>Craftsman bungalow in Santa Barbara, etc...
>
>I learn stuff from both shows, but I'd like to see a more realistic home

>improvement show. One where the water's out 'cause dad's working on the
>plumbing, the kids are screaming and the wife's bitching. Dad bashed his
>thumb with his hammer, the grouting job looks like hell and took 3 times
>longer than anticipated, everything is out of level.
>
>Now that'd be reality programming.

Hey, the TV shows aren't half as bad as the magazines. Has anyone EVER
seen a home improvement magazine that presented REAL homes?

Dan Hicks
Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks

Alison Meyer

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

In article <5fniic$1q...@nntp2.u.washington.edu>, mas...@u.washington.edu
(Kelley Mascher) wrote:

> ali...@datalife.com (Alison Meyer) writes:
>
> snip

> >It's nice to see how people on TOH can redo their homes on modest $50,000
> >budgets with a crew of professionals,
>

> I think you dropped a zero in your budget number. :)

Sorry. I must have been thinking of a bathroom re-do. ;-)

Sarah A. Novak

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

Ujvary wrote:

>
> BTW, I did like Hometime when Joane Liebler was still on it,
> but all of Dean's cohosts since just seems too fluffy.
>
> --
> Keith A. Ujvary
> Gibsons, British Columbia, Canada
> keith_ujvary AT sunshine.net
> "Life is too short - take it with a smile. St Louis Blues." - Jean "Bill" Theoret

I haven't watched Hometime much since Joanne left (to be a stand-up
comic!?), although that's mostly coincidence. Now she has a show on
HGTV called "Room for Change" and, frankly, she's just a little too
perky for me. She works with designers who spend $15,000 on a room and
then offer "inexpensive" tips for your own decorating, like using twigs
over your windows (and you can just cut them off your own trees and
vines.....). I guess the comedy thing didn't pan out...

Sarah
--
Sarah Novak

JBek

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

> "Return here with a shrubbery,
> or you will never pass this wood alive!"

> http://users.aol.com/roadrnnr/roadrnnr.html

I agree

air

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

"Sarah A. Novak" <sa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>I haven't watched Hometime much since Joanne left (to be a stand-up
>comic!?), although that's mostly coincidence. Now she has a show on
>HGTV called "Room for Change" and, frankly, she's just a little too
>perky for me. She works with designers who spend $15,000 on a room and
>then offer "inexpensive" tips for your own decorating, like using twigs
>over your windows (and you can just cut them off your own trees and
>vines.....). I guess the comedy thing didn't pan out...

I thought that *was* the comedy thing ...

Rich Kula

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

>
> It's nice to see how people on TOH can redo their homes on modest $50,000

> budgets with a crew of professionals, and often you can get ideas on how
> to do things better yourself by watching them, but if you're doing
> something on your own, the more basic the information, the better. And if
> you're watching Hometime, you also don't have to hear the name "Steve"
> every three seconds. (I think it's in the contract. "You must say
> Steve's name several times every sentence. As in, 'Steve, what this
> machine does, Steve, is sand a large surface, Steve, all at once, Steve,
> removing the finish without raising the grain, Steve.'")

And of course when they saunter over to curbside to have a little
talksee over the contractor's truck fenders that truck ALWAYS has a
simonized mirror finish as if that truck just rolled out of the paintbooth
that morning. Tires that are out of the factory with no scuffs or typical
job site riff-raff on them. "Chevys to the levy" need not apply!.
Everything is so perfect condition almost like a soap opera.Tuned up
perfect, no tappets clicking, no muffler exceeds 85 decibels. Now tell me
when the last time you have seen the typical contractor's vehicles looking
quite like that? Shirts of the contractors are neatly ironed and pressed.
Clean shaven chaps that don't have bratwurst fingers from misplaced
hammers or those obligatory snafus. Of course, these guys have Palmolive
hands from NEVER mixing mortar or cements with their hands as half the
world out there has done from time to time.

AND, you mentioned wthat is the absolute annoying part of the TOH with
the constant addressing of names. I have seen those damn contractor's
gesticulating as if they have are in the middle of a Toastmasters speech
and -I- -Just- -DO- -NOT -BUY- -IT-! ;)

I would love to see a little less than perfect birds-mouth cuts when
they put up an occasional truss, a little slip heading up those rickety
stairs, every once in a while but.......there's no business like show
business!!

Rich

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Mar 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/11/97

to

da...@cris.com wrote:

>>
>>> And this is quite unfortunate, actually. A very significant part of
>>> the work done on any job is fixing screwups, either those made by the
>>> current workers or those made in the past. Learning how to fix these
>>> is a critical part of learning how to do the job, and we're not getting
>>> that from these shows, especially TOH.
>>>
>>> Dan Hicks
>>> Hey!! My advice is free -- take it for what it's worth!
>>> http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks
>
>> Dan, Bang on ole buddy! That is so true. That's what I liked from Dean
>>and Joanne was that they would sometimes say something like "ok this wan't
>>really matter because ______ will be covered by __________ and it will
>>never be noticed" I am sure that we all strive for quality control, but
>>there are those times that are foibles come through. When we can't
>>mitigate, we make concessions or amendments.
>
>> Good point Dan
>

>Dan makes a good point although I'll add something. A significant part
>of some jobs is fixing my *own* screwups while doing them...:-o
>
>Danny
>
>da...@cris.com
>

There was a Hometime back a few years, where Dean spent some time in the
program trying to figure out why the custom built roof trusses he ordered didn't
fit properly. After a nightmare scene, he went up to the roof, re-measured,
figured out his error, than then worked out a way to shim the trusses (now
on-site and obviously not returnable) to fit.

I thought he did a good job of working an obvious goof into a practical
lesson.

Dave.

ZAKANY

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

> And this is quite unfortunate, actually. A very significant part of
> the work done on any job is fixing screwups, either those made by the
> current workers or those made in the past. Learning how to fix these
> is a critical part of learning how to do the job, and we're not getting
> that from these shows, especially TOH.
>
> Dan Hicks

We've all heard these lines from the home repair and renovation shows:

"This was a tricky piece to cut, but if we've measured right, it will
fit."
"Fit's perfect! Now on to the next step..."

What *I* want to know is what to do if it *doesn't* fit perfect...

They always seem to have tools that no normal homeowner would have.

On Hometime, they even had a gadget to scrape up dry wall mud from the
floor! As if that wasn't enough, after taking a couple scrapes, they said
they'd have their drywallers finish the cleanup. Wish *I* could have said
that when I was done mudding my basement walls.
Mistakes are the Portals to Discovery...and Ridicule

mat...@wizvax.net

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

Speaking of tools...
I think it was on the Santa Fe episode that they were installing the
'artificially intelligent' forced air system and they all of a sudden
cut to some sort of sheet metal seaming/bending machine like it was as
common as a table saw. They mumbled something about a 'Pittsburg
Johnson Bender' and moved quickly on without so much as a mention of
this thing. Now, I try to watch TOH as much as possible specifically
_for_ the snobbery and pretentiousness however, this one really went
too far. Usually it is apparent when they are delving into a "don't
try this at home" project but in this case, which started out with me
thinking "sure, I can crack this one, got my tin snips... heh... can't
wait for one of the neighbors to ask my advice about spiffing up their
old heating system... I'll drop some brand names and..." My fantasy
was rapidly crushed with the mention of the 'bender' and their smirky
if not gratuitous glossing over of this procedure. Well, at least I
can knock out a wine cellar.

Rich Kula

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

Dean was putting drywall up on the ceiling a wee ways back with this
thing that was like a mechanical forklift that just kind of gently placed
the sheets of drywall ever so daintly in place for the final screwing and
dimpling.The user would just pump up this sheet of drywall from the floor
and then climbed into this cherry-picker crib and did the rest. I was
impressed at the ease of use and the fact it eliminated the ubiquitous
sore back that comes from putting drywall up in the 12 0'clock position.
(throw in a dash of jealously too) Now believe me! I am certain that
those tools (errr... machinery) can come Jim Handy to the rescue, but Dean
had the audacity to parenthetically mention that they are a "true must for
anybody doing a fairsized room like a dining room". How many sheets of
drywall to a dining room ceiling. Maybe 10 and some pieces?

I almost jumped out of the chair when he said that
requisite-crane-derrick-boom statement!. What in the hell ever happened
to having a couple of "helpers" (wife, kids, neighbor, friends.. you get
it) to dedicate an afternoon and put some hands underneath while you drive
home those screws to the rafters. It puts a *mild* smirk on my face even
now when those sort of innuendos come through. It's so overkill, like
swatting flies with a maul.

I am sure that it cost AT LEAST $1000 US (you could hear his wedding
ring or whatever hitting the side of that damn derrick and it sounded more
like battleship armour than recycled Budweiser cans!.He dedicated a minute
or so extolling the great benefit to having "one handy". Dean, give your
head a soak will ya? What's that you say, Dean? How silly of me! They
ALSO double as playground monkey bars!!

Rich

Mike Pelletier

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

In article <umkula00-120...@ts1u-16.cc.umanitoba.ca>,

Rich Kula <umku...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>
> Dean was putting drywall up on the ceiling a wee ways back with this
>thing that was like a mechanical forklift that just kind of gently placed
>the sheets of drywall ever so daintly in place for the final screwing and
>dimpling.The user would just pump up this sheet of drywall from the floor
>and then climbed into this cherry-picker crib and did the rest. I was
>impressed at the ease of use and the fact it eliminated the ubiquitous
>sore back that comes from putting drywall up in the 12 0'clock position.
>(throw in a dash of jealously too) Now believe me! I am certain that
>those tools (errr... machinery) can come Jim Handy to the rescue, but Dean
>had the audacity to parenthetically mention that they are a "true must for
>anybody doing a fairsized room like a dining room". How many sheets of
>drywall to a dining room ceiling. Maybe 10 and some pieces?
>
> I almost jumped out of the chair when he said that
>requisite-crane-derrick-boom statement!. What in the hell ever happened
>to having a couple of "helpers" (wife, kids, neighbor, friends.. you get
>it) to dedicate an afternoon and put some hands underneath while you drive
>home those screws to the rafters. It puts a *mild* smirk on my face even
>now when those sort of innuendos come through. It's so overkill, like
>swatting flies with a maul.

Well, now, hey, don't be too hard on him. We put up drywall in the
24x28 garage we built, and we just rented a drywall hoist from our
local rental joint. It didn't have a cherry-picker thingie, but we
just got very good at dragging stepladders around.

My dad and I, just the two of us, did the ceiling with two ten and
one eight foot piece along the 28' length of the ceiling, for a total of
18 pieces, and then went on to do the walls. I kid you not.

The H-shaped cross-bar that the drywall sat on tipped down, and
had two springloaded hooks at the bottom, so it was quite easy to
set the pieces on it without having to lay them flat, risking
breakage, and we took also advantage of that characteristic to do
the upper half of the walls -- just set the piece on the tipped
hoist, and crank it up until the upper edge hits the ceiling.

And we even managed to get the hoist back to the rental place the
following morning. I'm with Dean, I would *never* consider doing
a ceiling without one.

-Mike Pelletier.

Rich Kula

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Mar 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/13/97

to

>
> And we even managed to get the hoist back to the rental place the
> following morning. I'm with Dean, I would *never* consider doing
> a ceiling without one.
>
> -Mike Pelletier.

Mike,

In brevity, Dean's "dining room" was nothing in comparison to your
garage that you cited in your example area-wise. The room he was in was
was so small that the audio was clipping and it sounded like he was
talking through a toilet paper roll. Can you say *cramped* ;)

No offence intended Mike, but you probably paid $35 after taxes for
that gizmo rental and so you paid roughly $2.00/sheet to put that up. I
guess only you can say if it was worth it in the end, but I would just as
soon put it in the back pocket of neighbor's kids for their pin money
instead of the merchant down the street. Even my erudite fiance when she
entered the room and saw Demonstrative Dean saying straight-faced to
absolutly to not do without just shook her head. That was the context.

I like Dean. Heck, I like you too Mike ;) But I detest that ever subtle
innuendo on HomeTimethat a whole lot more is required when it just isn't
true at all. But don't believe me, ask the drywaller down the street.

Rich

mat...@wizvax.net

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Mar 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/14/97

to

A hoist??? Get a grip.

David James Miller

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Mar 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/14/97

to

I did 1100 square feet in my basement and didn't use a lift. I
built a couple of Ts from 2x4s, and had my 8 year position them when
I had the sheet in place. No big deal. I spent the rental money
I saved on a screw gun....

Dave

Eric A. Mercer

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Mar 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/14/97

to

David James Miller wrote:
>
> I did 1100 square feet in my basement and didn't use a lift. I
> built a couple of Ts from 2x4s, and had my 8 year position them when
> I had the sheet in place. No big deal. I spent the rental money
> I saved on a screw gun....
>

What a waste. I just use a regular phillips screwdriver. It only takes
about 90 minutes per sheet.

;-)

unread,

Mar 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/21/97

to

Michael Fedock (mfe...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: Eric A. Mercer wrote:
: >
: > David James Miller wrote:

: > >
<<actual words deleted>>

What happened to the "Robin-in-a-bikini" part of this thread?? Forget the
illegal-aliens-holding-screwdrivers stuff, let's talk about real home
remodeling things - like, have 'em put in a shower and close with a close-up
of Robin using it for the first time ;-)

--
Harry Boswell hbos...@netdoor.com
USDA Zone 8 (Mississippi USA)
Home Page: http://www2.netdoor.com/~hboswell

darkstar

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Mar 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/23/97

to

Chris Donnegan (a...@flix.com) wrote:
: >over your windows (and you can just cut them off your own trees and

: >vines.....). I guess the comedy thing didn't pan out...

I hate that I hate that I hate that! I will be glad when this STOOPID
curtain fad is over! Use a curtain rod already! SOrry. I don't know
what came over me. I HATE THOSE STUPID TWIG CURTAIN RODS and those
curtains with big fat tabs instead of plain old fashioned curtain
rods...they look so saggy. SOrry, I'm trying to get a grip :-)