Why won't my outdoor motion sensor lights work with LED light bulbs

[Allan]

I recently purchased LED lights to replace the outdoor motion sensor 65W flood
lights. Not one of them worked.

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[Mike Duffy]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 03:44:01 +0000, Allan wrote:

> I recently purchased LED lights to replace the outdoor motion sensor 65W flood
> lights. Not one of them worked.

I had the same problem. The sensor uses the load as a drain for the sensing
circuit. With filament bulbs, the current is too small to light them. Put a
small tungsten bulb in parallel. Experiment to find the smallest wattage
that works.

Note: Do not use CFLs. They produce EMI that trips the motion sensor.

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[burfordTjustice]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 03:44:01 +0000

Allan <caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:

> I recently purchased LED lights to replace the outdoor motion sensor
> 65W flood lights. Not one of them worked.
>

Sounds like a great question for your Senator,Congressman and the
Federal/State EPA regulators.

[Mark Lloyd]

On 04/04/2016 10:50 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:

[snip]

> I had the same problem. The sensor uses the load as a drain for the sensing
> circuit. With filament bulbs, the current is too small to light them. Put a
> small tungsten bulb in parallel. Experiment to find the smallest wattage
> that works.
>
> Note: Do not use CFLs. They produce EMI that trips the motion sensor.
>

I have 2 CFLs in my motion sensor light. They always come on properly.

BTW, these are 2 of the only 3 CFLs I have that take longer than a
second or two to reach full brightness.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Try new Post Jesus (tm) breakfast cereal! Chock full of bland,
tasteless little bread wafers made from 100% Jesus for that full-body of
Christ taste. Goes great with a little red wine."

[burfordTjustice]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:42:08 -0500
Mark Lloyd <n...@mail.invalid> wrote:

> On 04/04/2016 10:50 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I had the same problem. The sensor uses the load as a drain for the
> > sensing circuit. With filament bulbs, the current is too small to
> > light them. Put a small tungsten bulb in parallel. Experiment to
> > find the smallest wattage that works.
> >
> > Note: Do not use CFLs. They produce EMI that trips the motion
> > sensor.
> >
>
> I have 2 CFLs in my motion sensor light. They always come on properly.
>
> BTW, these are 2 of the only 3 CFLs I have that take longer than a
> second or two to reach full brightness.
>

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Hmm, https://www.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl

[trader_4]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 11:50:30 PM UTC-4, Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 03:44:01 +0000, Allan wrote:
>
> > I recently purchased LED lights to replace the outdoor motion sensor 65W flood
> > lights. Not one of them worked.
>
> I had the same problem. The sensor uses the load as a drain for the sensing
> circuit. With filament bulbs, the current is too small to light them. Put a
> small tungsten bulb in parallel. Experiment to find the smallest wattage
> that works.
>

+1

Except that typically you can't just use the smallest wattage that works
because you need sufficient wattage for the lighting application. But
if you have 4 of them, you could put one 100W regular bult, three 100W LED.
How that looks, IDK in all cases, but I've done it with CFL, that can
have the same issue and it looked OK.

[Gordon Shumway]

Yeah, right. Most of them couldn't find their ass with both hands and you expect them to be able to solve that problem? They
caused the damn problem!

I expected you to be smarter than that.

[Mike Duffy]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:42:08 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

> I have 2 CFLs in my motion sensor light. They always come on properly.

The problem I had was inside. The sensor is in a wall 'box', and is
line-of-sight to the interior lights. CFL will come on okay, but constantly
re-triggers the sensor.

Outside installs usually block the light from load to sensor, because it
usually also contains an ambient light sensor to prevent daytime duty.

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[Mike Duffy]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 07:22:23 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

> have the same issue

Or, try to find a model that uses the white wire to drain the sensor
instead of the virtual ground through the load.

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[taxed and spent]

"Gordon Shumway" <Rho...@Planet.Melmac> wrote in message
news:huo7gb9giptbhorum...@4ax.com...

whoosh!

[Gordon Shumway]

You're right, I missed the sarcasm. My original thought was if congress is made aware of the problem they created they will
write more laws and make the problem even worse.

[Paint...@unlisted.moo]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:42:08 -0500, Mark Lloyd <n...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Try new Post Jesus (tm) breakfast cereal! Chock full of bland,
>tasteless little bread wafers made from 100% Jesus for that full-body of
>Christ taste. Goes great with a little red wine."

Jesus has returned to our Earth as the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Made from
100% bleached white flour!
Turn him around, and you'll see an "EAT ME" bumper sticker on his back.

[Mark Lloyd]

The one I described is outside. Maybe that explains the difference.

I do have some inside motion sensor lights. These depend on current flow
through the bulbs (2-wire switch) and will not work properly with CFL or
LED.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.

[Paint...@unlisted.moo]

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:39:24 -0500, Mark Lloyd <n...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>On 04/05/2016 11:28 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:42:08 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>> I have 2 CFLs in my motion sensor light. They always come on properly.
>>
>> The problem I had was inside. The sensor is in a wall 'box', and is
>> line-of-sight to the interior lights. CFL will come on okay, but constantly
>> re-triggers the sensor.
>>
>> Outside installs usually block the light from load to sensor, because it
>> usually also contains an ambient light sensor to prevent daytime duty.
>>
>
>The one I described is outside. Maybe that explains the difference.
>
>I do have some inside motion sensor lights. These depend on current flow
>through the bulbs (2-wire switch) and will not work properly with CFL or
>LED.

This is not the first time this topic has appared on this newsgroup.
Apparently the LED bulbs dont draw enough current to make the sensor
work properly. I would assume they now make motion sensor fixtures made
*FOR* LED lights, or there would be a lot of complaints and lack of
sales. But I'm only guessing this has been done (or will soon be done).
Until then, the older fixtures must have at least one "regular" bulb
installed.

I'm no fan of motion sensor lights. I think they waste a lot of
electricity. On my farm, they would turn on and off all the time. My
barn cats, wild critters, swaying trees from wind, rain and snow, and
everything else that moved, made them turn on. If I adjusted them to
less sensitive, then they did not turn on when I walked toward them
until I was real close, and still went on from animals and so on. I just
got rid of all of them over time.

I know where there is one in town that turns on everytime a car drives
past that building on the road, on a fairly busy street. Who needs that,
and why waste electricity like that....

Either way, I'm sure they must have some newer fixtures that work with
LED, and the older ones will need to be replaced, but no matter what, I
wont install them again. There is one place on my farm where I had to go
to the barn at night and would trip on steps, if I was not real careful
or had a flashlight. I solved that by putting a light on another
building ahead of the barn, with a switch outside (on the other
building), which lights up the place with the steps. But since then, I
bought a solar powered light which lights up that area every night. But
if it was a real cloudy day and the solar light did not charge up well,
I still have the switched light.

[kciar...@gmail.com]

I did the same thing but instead of turning off after the time frame...the light starts blinking. Maybe the new LED bulbs aren't compatible with older outdoor motion lights. Frustrating!

[mike]

Depends on how the led is constructed and the design of the
motion sensor.

I tried several different brands of LED's and motion sensors.
Most combinations don't work.
Some work fine.
Some work initially, but develop flashing issues later.

One thing to look for is a motion sensor that has THREE input wires
so it can get power without going thru the led. Some fake it
by using the safety ground instead of neutral. It's hard to tell
by looking at the box in the store. Those that say they are LED
compatible, often, but not always, worked for me. Motion sensors
with relays work best.

In one case, I used a Y-adapter so I could put a 4W incandescent
night light in parallel with the LED bulb. Been working great.
Bad news is that increases the power consumption by 50%, but
for seldom used lights, it's a reasonable tradeoff. The money
you save on a FREE garage sale motion sensor will buy a lot
of electricity.

[Mark Lloyd]

I've seen that happen with CFLs too. When "off" the switch isn't quite
off. It allows a small current through (actually 120V, but more than
just a little load drops it to almost 0) the load. A capacitor in the
light (CFL ballast or LED current regulator) can charge slowly and then
discharge causing the light to come on briefly.

It would stay off if you could add a little resistive load to the
switch. That happens if you put in one little incandescent bulb.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The certainty with which a religious belief is held is usually in
direct proportion to its absurdity." [Rev. Donald Morgan]