Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?

[Dan]

The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun
to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the
bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely
handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen
them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their
bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess.
Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is
BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know?

TIA Dan

[yaofe...@gmail.com]

I'd think the city should take care of this since this is in a location
before entering your house. Why not call the city?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38oo0rF...@individual.net...

In most cases, it is still your valve and water line. The city may come out
and turn the water off for you and then turn it back on. Of course they
will expect you to have a permit for the work also.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

<yaofe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109864145.6...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I'd think the city should take care of this since this is in a location
> before entering your house. Why not call the city?
>

He said it is before the meter in his basement. I think it is his problem.

[Brian O]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38oo0rF...@individual.net...

Best way would be to contact the water dept in your area and ask them.
B

[Joseph Meehan]

You may need to check locally as I suspect it is not the same
everywhere. In my case the pipe line and all valves etc, from the curb box
to the house are my problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

[Abe]

------------
It's pretty universal that the city/county is responsible up to and
including the meter at the curb. Anything past the meter is your
responsibility.

You can get the water meter shutoff wrench at Lowe's/Home Depot for a
few bucks.

[Dan]

Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve
are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the
front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the
METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The
valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to
going out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to
be leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not
for the WATER being on ;-) I think I'll see if it calcifies & stops
leaking after a bit, as it has in the past. Mean time I'll call the
city, but wanted to get an idea of how this usually goes befire I do.
I've seen short wrenches for the outside valve at hardware stores. I
bent one 180 degrees one time trying to shut off the water at my inlaws
house in LA, but there the valve was only inches beneath the cover; here
it's a good 2-3 feet. I can just imagine what condition the thing is
in, having never been shut off for the 40 years my family has owned this
house ;-(

Dan

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:38ov84F...@individual.net...

> Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve
> are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the
> front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the
> METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The
> valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to going
> out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to be
> leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not for
> the WATER being on ;-)

The meter belongs to the city/town, but the piping belongs to you.

Have you tried to gently tighten the packing nut? Sometimes that is all
that is needed.

[Brian O]

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qtGVd.823$e75...@fe2.columbus.rr.com...

Here in our area, anything before the meter is the water depts
responsibility.
B

[MLD]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38ov84F...@individual.net...

Don't be tempted to shut off the curb water yourself. My shutoff valve also
leaked and I replaced it with a ball valve. My plumber refused to shut off
the outside water "too many bad tings happen". When the city shut off the
water the shaft extension (from ground to the valve underground) broke in
half. Result was that they had to tear up the street to get at the valve,
install a new shaft extension, fill the hole and re-hot top the street.
Plumber made the right decision.
MLD

[Joe S]

Just because the water has not been shut off at the curb (as far as you
know) doesn't mean it's a decrepit valve. They may well have maintained
it somewhere along the line.

At my curb (Southern California) the shutoff is about a foot below the
sidewalk with the meter right there in that box. I just use a crescent
wrench and a big screwdriver through the "hang-hole" on the handle to
get the torque necessary to turn the horizontally-mounted valve. I
really wish I had the proper tool, but I never think to pick one up for
the time in the future I'm likely to need it. I'd think something like
those old 3-foot-long manual sprinkler control tools might work.

Joe

[Dan]

Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try
it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try
snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there.

Dan

[Dan]

Good idea.

Dan

[MikeP]

In article <8gde21l72rheefuti...@4ax.com>,
no...@nowhere.com says...

> It's pretty universal that the city/county is responsible up to and
> including the meter at the curb. Anything past the meter is your
> responsibility.

In my neck of the woods the utility company is responsible for the
lines under the road. As soon as it crosses under the curb it is
the customers responsibility. The location of the meter does not
mater, although most of the time meter is close to the curb and the
utility will "handle the problem" up to the meter if the meter is
close the the curb.

As others have said, if the point of demarcation varies per
jurisdiction.

[Clark Griswold]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:38peghF...@individual.net...

About ten years ago the water main was replaced on my street. The main gate
(shut off valve) just before the meter begin to leak. Called a plumber, then
called the town to shut the water off. Plumber arrived, changed the valve
($100), then called the town to turn the water back on. The water was off
for about two hours.
Once the water was on all sorts of crap came through the pipes, metal chips,
grease, real nasty stuff. I put a whole house filter on for about $30 and
every thing has been fine since..

[Dave Morrison]

Dan wrote:
> Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try
> it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try
> snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there.
>
> Dan
>

If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no
pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and
wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open
the valve and continue living your life.
Dave

[El-Jay]

"Dave Morrison" <moonlig...@nospamqwest.net> wrote in message
news:42288853...@nospamqwest.net...

> If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no
> pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and
> wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open
> the valve and continue living your life.

Good point. That means he can probably fix the valve stem leak without
having to shut off the water at the curb.

[Robert Barr]

Dave Morrison wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try
>> it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try
>> snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there.
>>
>> Dan
>>
> If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no
> pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and
> wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open
> the valve and continue living your life.
> Dave
>

Let me toss in a question:

There's bound to be an existing packing (which is, of course, worn or
deteriorated). There's too much volume under the nut to fill completely
with the teflon thread / string, so the idea is to add a few wraps to
seal. Would those wraps be added between the existing packing and the
nut? Or under the packing?

I've tried to purchase replacement packing before, and maybe there's a
variety available to pros, but the folks at the hardware store just
shrug and hand me the teflon string.

(Stem leaks have been a consistent curse at this 65-year-old house...).

[Dan]

I didn't think about this, I see what you're saying (stem screws down in
body of the valve so will be held in place there with water off even
though nut is removed) and I'm guessing you're correct, but I'm a bit
leery to attempt this without being absolutely certain before hand I'm
not going to get a geyser, with no easy/quick way of shutting it off
(per the previous comments re the likely condition of the curb valve,
lack of a wrench, etc.) Is this the universal design (no possibility
stem, handle and all are going to come off with the nut)? Valve is
about 50 years old. I guess I can easily shut the water off, then
loosen the nut slowly to see what happens.

Sure like the "continue living my life part", lol.

Dan

[Dan]

Well, I went down & shut off the valve, then backed off the nut
slightly. Began to leak more, so I opened a nearby faucet to remove
pressure on the outlet side & the leaking stopped. I slacked off the
nut about half way; no leaking, so it seems I may be able to repack the
valve w/o shutting off the outside water control. I'll go to the hdwr
store & see what they have for this before proceeding further. Plus I'm
having to soak the screw that retains the valve handle in penetrating
oil to get it out w/o risking breaking it off. Ironically, after all
this when I reopened the valve, the leak has substantially quit.

No doubt not for long, however.

When it comes to plumbing, I'd rather do electrical ;-)

Dan

[El-Jay]

"Dan" <prograde49S...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:38s8bpF...@individual.net...

>
> When it comes to plumbing, I'd rather do electrical ;-)
>

When it comes to electrical, I'd rather do plumbing. I can sometimes outrun
a water leak, but have never been able to outrun electricity.

[ES]

replying to Dan, ES wrote:
leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities
responsibility.
Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired)

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/shutoff-valve-before-water-meter-whose-problem-595873-.htm

[Don Y]

On 6/24/2016 1:44 PM, ES wrote:
> replying to Dan, ES wrote:
> leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities
> responsibility. Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired)

ISTR everything up to and INCLUDING the meter is the city's
(or, "water company's") responsibility. The output of
the water meter is the homeowner/customer's problem.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:44:02 +0000, ES
<caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:

>replying to Dan, ES wrote:
>leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities
>responsibility.
>Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired)

If it is inside the house (virtually all water meters here in
Ontario and most of Canada are) the shutoff valve ahead of the meter
inside the house is the homeowner's responsibility. The shutoff
hydrant at the street is the end of the "public works" responsibility.

When they came to change the meter at my house, the shutoff leaked so
they had to shut it off at the street. While waiting for them to shut
it off I ran out and got a new 1/4 turn valve and I had it replaced
in minutes while the public works guy readied the new meter for
installation..

Saved me a $100 plumber's call and doing it while they had it shut off
saved me the call-out fee to shut it off at the street. Since they had
to do it to change the meter, it was a NO CHARGE call-out.

[bob haller]

just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops..

[Taxed and Spent]

On 6/24/2016 1:59 PM, bob haller wrote:
> just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops..
>

Or back off the packing nut and add more packing. A piece of string
will do. Then tighten backup.

[Vic Smith]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:03:49 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:


>
>When they came to change the meter at my house, the shutoff leaked so
>they had to shut it off at the street. While waiting for them to shut
>it off I ran out and got a new 1/4 turn valve and I had it replaced
>in minutes while the public works guy readied the new meter for
>installation..
>

When I replaced the galvanized in my 2-flat in Chicago there was a
small meter pit with a valve in the front parkway. Cast iron cover.
I closed the inside valve (3/4" gate valve) at the end of the lead
pipe service, but was I was still getting a solid flow of water out of
the basement sink. I worked the valve good, but it was shot.
It needed replacement.
So I closed the outside pit valve (3/4" gate again) but it made no
difference that I could see in the flow from the basement faucet.
Worked that one good too, but that valve was shot too.
That's just what happens with 60 year old unused valves.
Made up the new opened valve with a teflon taped short nipple and got
a buddy to hold up a big galvanized wash tub. Same kind we used to
bathe in when I was a tyke spending the summer with my ma's folks in
the Ozarks.
When I cranked off that old valve it seemed like there was full city
water pressure coming out of the lead pipe. We both got splashed and
half soaked. He actually dropped the tub for an instant.
But I was pretty fast cranking in the new valve and shutting it off.
Had it ready and at hand. Probably spilled 3-4 gallons, most of it
caught by the tub.
That outside city valve was doing squat.

[Don Y]

On 6/24/2016 5:13 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
> When I replaced the galvanized in my 2-flat in Chicago there was a
> small meter pit with a valve in the front parkway. Cast iron cover.
> I closed the inside valve (3/4" gate valve) at the end of the lead
> pipe service, but was I was still getting a solid flow of water out of
> the basement sink. I worked the valve good, but it was shot.
> It needed replacement.

Gate valves don't fare well over time. Esp if you have mineral
deposits in the water.

> So I closed the outside pit valve (3/4" gate again) but it made no
> difference that I could see in the flow from the basement faucet.
> Worked that one good too, but that valve was shot too.
> That's just what happens with 60 year old unused valves.
> Made up the new opened valve with a teflon taped short nipple and got
> a buddy to hold up a big galvanized wash tub. Same kind we used to
> bathe in when I was a tyke spending the summer with my ma's folks in
> the Ozarks.
> When I cranked off that old valve it seemed like there was full city
> water pressure coming out of the lead pipe. We both got splashed and
> half soaked. He actually dropped the tub for an instant.
> But I was pretty fast cranking in the new valve and shutting it off.
> Had it ready and at hand. Probably spilled 3-4 gallons, most of it
> caught by the tub.
> That outside city valve was doing squat.

I installed a ball valve *at* the house (downstream from the valve
on the load side of the water meter by the curb) so that I could be
*sure* the water was off when I wanted it to be so. Another downstream
from that to allow the irrigation water to be stopped and an electrically
operated valve to gate the domestic water supply (plus half-a-dozen
ball valves to allow the water filter and water softener to be selectively
bypassed, as needed. (ditto for the water heater)

When/if the city needs to replace their valve(s), they physically
deform the water main to pinch it closed to interrupt the flow.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:59:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller <hal...@aol.com>
wrote:

>just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops..

Woulkdn't have solved my problem -They could not stop the water flow
to change the water meter.