Lawn tractor battery question

[J]

Helo gurus,

For the winter I have generally just disconnect the battery on my lawn tractor and leave the tractor in the garage. In the spring I usually have to jump the lawn tractor anyway to get it started - not necessarily because the battery is dead, but because starting it the first time in the spring is a bear and usually takes a lot of cranking (and the tractor battery runs down before I can get the tractor started). However, once I've started it and got her running for a while, I can start it from the battery without too much trouble for the rest of the season.

This spring, I jumped it and it started right up. I let it run for a while, but then when I went to turn on the blades, it sputtered and died. I had to jump it again, but this time started the blades with it still connected to the car battery - no problem. After disconnecting, I tried starting and stopping the blades a few times with no trouble, but then after sitting a couple of minutes, again the engine died when I tried to start the blades.

Finally, I jumped it, started the blades and then mowed for about an hour - figuring this would both charge the battery and loosen up any tightness in the blades. Afterwards, same problem - and I also couldn't start the engine from off.

I'm thinking "new battery time". I just measured the voltage (tractor off) and got 12.2. It's a 12 volt battery, but I'm not sure if that's a decent voltage or not - that was after a few unsuccessful cranks by the way. I swear I've never had a problem starting the blades once I got the tractor is running, so I'm wondering if the problem is something else (or if there are multiple problems). Like maybe the blades are sticking and things need to be greased and the extra oomph required to start the blades is too much for the battery - just like it can kill your engine if you go too quickly through grass that's too high. Or maybe the battery's not charging properly while the tractor's running. Is there a good way to diagnose the problem or should I just get a new battery and worry about it later if that doesn't solve things?

The only reason I'm asking now instead of just figuring it's the battery is that it seems to me that in the past when the battery had died, once I jump-started the mower, I had no problems turning the blades on/off - it was only starting the tractor that was a problem.

Thanks.

-J

[RBM]

You probably have an electric clutch that engages the blades, and the
battery is just not up to the task. You could try putting the battery on
a charger and see if it recharges and holds a charge, but if it's been
in the tractor for over 5 years or so, it's probably got a bad cell.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 20, 7:16 pm, J <jcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Helo gurus,
>
> For the winter I have generally just disconnect the battery on my lawn tractor and leave the tractor in the garage.

Leaving a battery like that will usually shorten it's life.
Batteries will slowly self-dscharge and having it sit around
partially or fully discharged leads to sulfation and failure.
You can buy a battery tender that you can put on it to
keep it fully charged during the winter.

 In the spring I usually have to jump the lawn tractor anyway to get
it started - not necessarily because the battery is dead, but because
starting it the first time in the spring is a bear and usually takes a
lot of cranking (and the tractor battery runs down before I can get
the tractor started).  However, once I've started it and got her
running for a while, I can start it from the battery without too much
trouble for the rest of the season.
>
> This spring, I jumped it and it started right up.  I let it run for a while, but then when I went to turn on the blades, it sputtered and died.  I had to jump it again, but this time started the blades with it still connected to the car battery - no problem.  After disconnecting, I tried starting and stopping the blades a few times with no trouble, but then after sitting a couple of minutes, again the engine died when I tried to start the blades.
>
> Finally, I jumped it, started the blades and then mowed for about an hour - figuring this would both charge the battery and loosen up any tightness in the blades.  Afterwards, same problem - and I also couldn't start the engine from off.
>
> I'm thinking "new battery time".  I just measured the voltage (tractor off) and got 12.2.

That is a reasonable value. But then measuring voltage
on an unloaded battery doesn't tell you the whole story.
That's why pros use a battery tester that puts a load on it.

 It's a 12 volt battery, but I'm not sure if that's a decent voltage
or not - that was after a few unsuccessful cranks by the way.  I swear
I've never had a problem starting the blades once I got the tractor is
running, so I'm wondering if the problem is something else (or if
there are multiple problems).  Like maybe the blades are sticking and
things need to be greased and the extra oomph required to start the
blades is too much for the battery - just like it can kill your engine
if you go too quickly through grass that's too high.  Or maybe the
battery's not charging properly while the tractor's running.  Is there
a good way to diagnose the problem or should I just get a new battery
and worry about it later if that doesn't solve things?
>
> The only reason I'm asking now instead of just figuring it's the battery  is that it seems to me that in the past when the battery had died, once I jump-started the mower, I had no problems turning the blades on/off - it was only starting the tractor that was a problem.
>
> Thanks.

Once the tractor starts, it should be supplying it's own
power to keep it running. Might be an interlock switch
or sensor that's bad that gets involved when you move
the handle to engage the blades.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
When I had camping trailer, I used to hook up a solar powered trickle
charger on the batteries during winter. Did not have any
premature battery failure. If ever ice(or slush) forms inside the
battery. That will finish it.

Id solar panel is impractical for the stored battery, I'd hook up a
small current draw load, like a LED and AC powered trickle charger.

[nestork]

'J[_6_ Wrote:
> ;3065323']

> For the winter I have generally just disconnect the battery on my lawn
> tractor and leave the tractor in the garage.

Better to charge it periodically over the winter. I always keep a spare
car battery in my boiler room and charge it with a trickle charger for
about 12 hours every month or so.

> In the spring I usually have to jump the lawn tractor anyway to get it
> started - not necessarily because the battery is dead, but because
> starting it the first time in the spring is a bear and usually takes a
> lot of cranking (and the tractor battery runs down before I can get the
> tractor started).

That's probably cuz of lack of compression. The thin film of oil on the
cylinder walls drains away during the winter, and it's the lack of an
oil film that results in hard starting because of insufficient
compression by the piston rings. Next time, take the spark plug(s) out
and squirt some oil into each cylinder before cranking the engine over.
Leave the spark plugs out while cranking. The oil will spread out onto
the cylinder walls as you crank and you should find the engine is much
easier to start once you put the plugs back in.

On a car, if you have aluminum cylinder heads, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use
antiseize compound on the spark plug threads before putting the spark
plugs back in.




--
nestork

[HeyBub]

I can't imagine why the battery would be involved once the tractor is
running. Nevertheless, if it is, you want a FLOAT CHARGER, not periodic
charging or any variation of a trickle charger.

A FLOAT charger supplies charging current to the battery. When the battery
reaches full charge, the float charger shuts off. But the float charger
continues to monitor the charge on the battery and, when the charge level
drops below a minimum acceptable value, the float charger re-engages with
more charging.

This on-off-on-off sequencing prevents over charging, which will boil off
the electrolyte and under-charging which causes shorted cells due to
sulphation. A Float Charger may remain connected to a battery indefinitely.

Here's one for less than ten bucks:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/battery-float-charger-automatic-69594.html>

Here's another (I don't know the difference)
<http://www.harborfreight.com/battery-float-charger-automatic-69594.html>

Since you've got the whole summer to obtain the right kind of charger,
simply monitor the HF website. HF periodically puts this item on sale for
$6.95 and $4.95. I've got two: one for the riding lawnmower and one for my
electric wheelbarrow. The one for the mower has been in use for about three
years.

For more information, look up "float charger" on Wikipedia. There are lots
of articles and examples of use.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 5/21/2013 7:31 AM, HeyBub wrote:

> This on-off-on-off sequencing prevents over charging, which will boil off
> the electrolyte and under-charging which causes shorted cells due to
> sulphation. A Float Charger may remain connected to a battery indefinitely.
>
> Here's one for less than ten bucks:
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/battery-float-charger-automatic-69594.html>
>
> Here's another (I don't know the difference)
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/battery-float-charger-automatic-69594.html>

Uh, detecting the difference may be extremely difficult (other than to
say, "this is one, and this is another one [of the same thing]"

You seem to have posted the same link twice.<g>

These do work, however. I have used one of these for a couple of years
now to keep the battery topped off on my standby generator. Probably
got it for $6 or $7 while on sale.

[Stormin Mormon]

I used to have a HF float charger. Left it clipped on to a marine battery. A couple months later, the battery was down on water. Too 1 1/2 quarts to fill it up. The battery did not survive. If you use such a junky charger, please put it on a 24 hour lamp timer, and run it an hour a day.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Unquestionably Confused" <puzz...@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:519b6fb7$0$9472

[J]

Thanks for the advice on over-winter battery maintenance. I know I haven't been doing that properly. The battery that 's in there is probably 2 (at most 3) seasons old. As for the trouble starting the blades, I think it may have been something as simple as over-tensioning the drive belt. I did purchase a new battery, which seems to be starting the lawn tractor just fine - but I was still having trouble starting the blades. I loosened the tension on that belt a bit and the blades seem to be starting much more easily now - though now I'm afraid of that belt slipping and not driving the blades properly when cutting grass.

Thanks.

-J

[denni...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:23:28 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> I used to have a HF float charger. Left it clipped on to a marine battery. A couple months later, the battery was down on water. Too 1 1/2 quarts to fill it up. The battery did not survive. If you use such a junky charger, please put it on a 24 hour lamp timer, and run it an hour a day.

The harbor freight charger is incapable of producing enough current to boil off a battery. That charger would burn up producing enough current to boil off a battery.

You had some other problem, probably a shorted cell.

[Stormin Mormon]

I've probably put that HF charger in the trash, and the battery has long since been exchanged in. So, we'll never know. As for me, I'm not going to take that chance again.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.

<denni...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:784f788c-95c8-4601...@googlegroups.com...

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

2 amps can boil a battery if the voltage required to push 2 amps is
high enough

[Robert]

I've been using HF float chargers for several years. Recently I took
one
off and measured the output voltage. It had failed and there was no
way
it could maintain a charge to the battery.

These devices when used to maintain the charge on a fully
charged battery, do a fine job. But they have mortality rates
just like any other electronic device, and power line spikes and
surges can help then into the afterlife.

Every so often, maybe a couple times a year, disconnect one
and stick a voltmeter on the output. If it isn't above 12 volts,
something in it has given up it's ghost..... Stuff happens...

[tra...@optonline.net]

On May 21, 4:54 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 16:26:31 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
>
>
>
>
>
> <cayoung61**NOJUN...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I've probably put that HF charger in the trash, and the battery has long since been exchanged in. So, we'll never know.  As for me, I'm not going to take that chance again.
> >.
> >Christopher A. Young
> >Learn more about Jesus
> >  www.lds.org
> >.
> >.

> ><dennisga...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:784f788c-95c8-4601...@googlegroups.com...

> >On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:23:28 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> >> I used to have a HF float charger. Left it clipped on to a marine battery. A couple months later, the battery was down on water. Too 1 1/2 quarts to fill it up. The battery did not survive. If you use such a junky charger, please put it on a 24 hour lamp timer, and run it an hour a day.
>
> >The harbor freight charger is incapable of producing enough current to boil off a battery. That charger would burn up producing enough current to boil off a battery.
>
> >You had some other problem, probably a shorted cell.
>
> 2 amps can boil a battery if the voltage required to push 2 amps is

> high enough- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

But how high can the voltage be on a 12V tractor battery?
15V? That's 30W. Can 30W boil a battery that size?

[Bob F]

I don't think it ia really a "boiling" process. It is electrolysis, breaking
water into hydrogen and oxygen, which vent out. It doen't take high temps.

[k...@attt.bizz]

Nonsense. The amount of current available to "boil off" a battery
simply relates to how fast it will do it. The issue is the voltage
and profile.

>You had some other problem, probably a shorted cell.

You're assuming facts not in evidence.

[k...@attt.bizz]

The issue isn't power. It's the voltage. It's not "boiling"
anything, rather electrolysis.

[gregz]

It will put too much charge in a battery. It will boil. I was going to
measure the exact current and supply a resistor. 100 ma. Is too much. I
know these types of chargers will charge an almost dead battery to full
charge in 3-4 months. That's two 120 amp hour batteries in parallel, in our
case.

Greg

[gregz]

If the battery is discharged and high impedance, 20 volts might not be high
enough. If a battery is fully charged, .015 A can cause slow bubbling. .1 A
is starting to get excessive. I used to charge large cells with clear
walls, so you see inside. I've charged batteries in the military, at NASA,
and at home. I did one stupid thing in the army van. Dropped screwdriver
across terminals. The caps were off. I jumped out. Steams of fluid hit the
ceiling.

Greg

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes.

The energy put in, can go to one of three things.
1. charging
2. heat
3. electrolysis (boiling).

After the battery is full charged, any further
current input has pretty much one thing to do,
which is electrolysis.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.

<tra...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:487a0023-a928-47b4...@i3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

[bob haller]

any lead acid battery that has a bad cell will overheat on charging
and boil off the liquid.

my best friend has a windmill that charges a bank of car
batteries.......

he monitors the temperature of each battery to detect bad ones

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 01:30:36 +0000 (UTC), gregz <ze...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Again, it's *not* "boiling" anything. It has nothing to do with heat
and the bubbles are not H2O vapor, rather H2 and O2; *very*
combustible.