Why aren't toasters grounded?
larrymoencurly
dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
Richard Freeman
news:755e968a.02030...@posting.google.com...
> Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
> dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
> isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
What Country are you In ???????????????????????????????????
All the Toasters I have ever seen are Grounded And I have seen situations
where this Grounding has saved people from a nasty electric shock The old 'I
might try and dig this piece of stuck toast out of the Toaster with a metal
knife without unplugging it from the Wall...............BANG!!!- oh shit!
............. Trick).
given that most Toasters have exposed wiring inside them (the heating
element is not usually insulated ) which can break and come in contact with
the chassis, have large holes for poking things in and metal Cases I fail to
see how a Safe Toaster could be anything other than Grounded.
I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
Regards
Richard Freeman
Allodoxaphobia
>
> I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
What colour is the sky where you live?
Jonesy
Seth Goodman
larrymoencurly <larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
From <http://www.codecheck.com/ecution.htm>:
"Toasters are intentionally not grounded so that when a person starts
forking around for a stuck piece of toast and they make contact with the
nichrome heating element, they won't provide a fault path from the
energized fork, hand, chest, hand and over the grounded metal enclosure.
In part, this is the reason all countertop receptacles are now required
to be GFCI protected."
--
HTH,
Seth Goodman
Goedjn
you're digging around inside it, because if you've got one
hand holding the toaster-shell, and the other holding the fork
when the fork hits the exposed wires, well, then you ARE the
path to ground. So while a toaster may have a grounded
cord, I suspect that the shell isn't connected to it.
How good a conducter is a burning pop-tart?
Jim Kovar
> "larrymoencurly" <larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:755e968a.02030...@posting.google.com...
> > Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
> > dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
> > isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
>
> What Country are you In ???????????????????????????????????
>
> Regards
> Richard Freeman
>
>
>
CBHVAC
I have never seen a 3 pin toaster..
"Richard Freeman" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3c87e0f4$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Jeremy Goodwin
plugs are three pin, regardless of grounding.
JJ
Mars_Leader
Please come home.
It is obvious that you have not adapted very well on earth.
You have a very funny way of capitalization and punctuation, with all of the
excessive periods and question marks.................... Do You now what I
Mean??????????????????????????????
Your work IS Done there.
The Big boss
Richard Freeman
> > I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
> >
> > Regards
> > Richard Freeman
> >
> >
> >
> Uh.. on Earth, where I live, there are *lots* of two pin toasters.
In Australia Where I live (sorry Same planet you can't disown us that
easily) Toasters (I imagine we are Talking about the Things you put Toast in
.... Pop up when the Toast is done ) typically have a metal Chassis and are
Grounded . Of course this may have changed (as I have not purchased a new
toaster for at least five years) however the Toaster would need to be made
to Double insulated Standards and none I have seen appear to be made to that
Standard. There certainly appears to be no exemption for Toasters in
Australia.
I love this quote 'Toasters are intentionally not grounded so that when a
person starts forking around for a stuck piece of toast and they make
contact with the nichrome heating element, they won't provide a fault path
from the energized fork, hand, chest, hand and over the grounded metal
enclosure. In part, this is the reason all countertop receptacles are now
required to be GFCI protected.'
This is brilliant !! it assumes that Sinks are not grounded that wires never
break, that the nichrome element never melts through and comes in contact
with the Chassis that Toast never burns or touches the element and that the
only path to earth possible is via the chassis of the Toaster. The
Illustration that goes with it makes this point beautifully
Well I suppose 110V doesn't bite as hard as 240V however another difference
is that death or injury caused by someone sticking a knife in a powered up
Toaster can be attributed to stupidity on the part of the user whereas death
or injury caused by faulty wiring in the Toaster ...................
Either way It appears America has chosen to not Earth Toasters whereas In
Australia there is no exemption for Toasters from Earthing exposed Metal
work who am I to Argue ??
BTW all new Houses in Australia are required to have CBRs (GFCIs) installed
for all power points except Fridges and have been for at least the last ten
years.
Regards
Richard Freeman
Richard Freeman
"Allodoxaphobia" <Q...@QRM-QRN.net> wrote in message
news:slrna8foi...@animas.frontier.net...
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:52:30 GMT, Richard Freeman scribbled:
> >
> > I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
>
> What colour is the sky where you live?
>
Umm Grey at the moment with occasional scattered patches of
blue......................
home
In article <MPG.16f1aebef...@bvnntp.nevol.mediaone.net>,
seth...@yahoo.com spake thus...
>
> From <http://www.codecheck.com/ecution.htm>:
>
> "Toasters are intentionally not grounded so that when a person starts
> forking around for a stuck piece of toast and they make contact with the
> nichrome heating element, they won't provide a fault path from the
> energized fork, hand, chest, hand and over the grounded metal enclosure.
> In part, this is the reason all countertop receptacles are now required
> to be GFCI protected."
This begs the question:
What happens when/if the heater element breaks and contacts the metalwork
of the toaster? The exposed metal of the toaster could be 'live' and
sitting on the bench waiting to snare some unsuspecting guy with the
munchies. Earthing would pop the breaker and prevent this.
I have recently bought a new toaster and it is fitted with a 3 pin plug.
After reading this thread I tested the earth continuity and the
small amount of exposed metal work is indeed earthed. (The case is
plastic)
Here is an excerpt from the 2002 Australian Design Awards listing
for a toaster. The awards are sponsored by the Australian Standards
Organisation.
>'Other standard safety features include electrical earthing and double
>pole switch that only provides power to the elements when the lever is
>pushed down.'
The whole article can be found at:
http://www.designawards.com.au/ADA/99-00/INDUSTRIAL%20DESIGN/056/056.HTM
It's interesting how different countries address safety issues in
different ways and I wonder whether the 110 volts vs 240 volts has a
bearing. Incidently, I've can't recall ever seeing a 2 pin toaster
either.
Regards,
Lew
--
A (Lew) Lewis
Queensland Australia
lew...@mydotbigpond.com
Remove 'mydot' to Email
--
Bob Masta
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Well I suppose 110V doesn't bite as hard as 240V however another difference
>is that death or injury caused by someone sticking a knife in a powered up
>Toaster can be attributed to stupidity on the part of the user whereas death
>or injury caused by faulty wiring in the Toaster ...................
>
>Either way It appears America has chosen to not Earth Toasters whereas In
>Australia there is no exemption for Toasters from Earthing exposed Metal
>work who am I to Argue ??
The ungrounded toasters are part of a national program to improve the
collective intelligence of the electorate by Darwinian means. You
can tell how well it has been working by considering our current
president.
>
Bob Masta
tech(AT)daqarta(DOT)com
D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
Shareware from Interstellar Research
www.daqarta.com
Seth Goodman
<lew...@mydotbigpond.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.16f1aebef...@bvnntp.nevol.mediaone.net>,
> seth...@yahoo.com spake thus...
> >
> > From <http://www.codecheck.com/ecution.htm>:
> >
> > "Toasters are intentionally not grounded so that when a person starts
> > forking around for a stuck piece of toast and they make contact with the
> > nichrome heating element, they won't provide a fault path from the
> > energized fork, hand, chest, hand and over the grounded metal enclosure.
> > In part, this is the reason all countertop receptacles are now required
> > to be GFCI protected."
>
> This begs the question:
> What happens when/if the heater element breaks and contacts the metalwork
> of the toaster? The exposed metal of the toaster could be 'live' and
> sitting on the bench waiting to snare some unsuspecting guy with the
> munchies. Earthing would pop the breaker and prevent this.
>
You come down to a basic question: Which is more likely - that (a)
someone will go fishing in a live toaster with a fork, or (b) a toaster
will become broken such that the case is live?
Apparently, the powers-that-be have decided it's (a) in the US, and (b)
in Australia. (In other words, we have more idiots, and you have more
broken toasters. ;-) )
Seriously, though, re-read the scenario described in the quote, where
someone is fishing in a toaster with a fork. The point is they are
almost certainly steadying the toaster with their other hand. When they
hit the live wire, they then have a circuit from hand-to-hand, which
conducts electricity across the chest - the so-called "heart path". Not
many people survive that type of shock - it's why electricians are taught
to test a circuit with one hand in their pocket.
If the toaster's case has become electrically live due to a wiring
defect, touching the case will only give you a fatal shock *if* you are
well-grounded yourself (admittedly likely in a typical kitchen).
I can't get our UL standard for toasters without paying for it, but I
would imagine that new toasters for the US market have insulated outer
cases, and power-cutting switches. I *have* read about the new
requirement for toasters in this country that requires them to shut off
automatically if they fail to pop-up (such as if an overly-wide piece of
bread has jammed them).
Note, too, that plugging a toaster into a GFCI protected outlet protects
the user against *both* possibilities - another good argument for
installing GFCIs.
--
Seth Goodman
Skip
"Richard Freeman" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:3c87e0f4
I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
I have never seen otherwise.
Alan Beagley
2-pin-plugs -- are sold any longer in UK, for example.
When I lived in Australia, only low-current double-insulated appliances
were sold with 2-pin plugs.
-=-
Alan
Lawrence Wasserman
Well, I've seen plenty that have a 2 pin plug no ground prong,
including the one I bought within the last 2 years.
Could it possibly be because the toaster manufacturers want to
sell toasters to the millions of people who live in homes
without grounded electrical outlets in their kitchens?
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwas...@charm.net
Harry
http://www.westernpower.com.au/residential_customers/smart_home/clever_ideas
/download/clever_ideas.pdf
H
"Sam" <notmyrea...@notswbell.net> wrote in message
news:Xns91CB5B8561A18...@151.164.30.48...
> [UNCROSSPOSTED]
> "Richard Freeman" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin
> > Cord....................
>
> Show me a toaster with a 3rd wire grounding plug.
>
> URL???
>
>
> --
> Sam
> Undo every "not" in my email address
> Outlook users: Don't add me to your address book
George Macomber
There are some appliances that should *never* be grounded. In
particular, that applies to toasters and anything else with
exposed conductors. Consider: if you touch the heating
electrode in a toaster, and you're not grounded, nothing will
happen. If you're slightly grounded, you'll get a small shock;
the resistance will be too high. But if the case were
grounded, and you were holding it, you'd be the perfect path to
ground...
Dan Musicant
wrote:
:
:"Allodoxaphobia" <Q...@QRM-QRN.net> wrote in message
What galaxy are you in? What is your star and planet?
David G.
| I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
|
| Regards
| Richard Freeman
Really? I live in Illinois, USA and have yet to see a 3-pronged toaster.
Dan Musicant
wrote:
:In article <3c87e0f4$1...@news.iprimus.com.au>, nos...@nospam.com says...
I'd been using a toaster all my life that was probably designed in the
1950's. Toastmaster? When I got tired of repairing the elements on my
original, I bought a replacement at a flea market. I finally got tired
of its performance and bought a new one not long ago. The best thing
about it aside from the overkill on controls is the clamping action on
the meal, work, food, whatever you would call it (usually a slice of
bread). It accommodates VERY wide bread, indeed, and holds whatever you
put in there in the center of the slot. The spring-loaded mechanism that
grabs the bread only goes into action when you press down the start
lever. Thus, I no longer get stuck toast.
Richard Freeman
> Well, I've seen plenty that have a 2 pin plug no ground prong,
> including the one I bought within the last 2 years.
> Could it possibly be because the toaster manufacturers want to
> sell toasters to the millions of people who live in homes
> without grounded electrical outlets in their kitchens?
>
In Australia All 240V AC power Outlets have been Grounded for at least the
last 30 years we have no such thing as an ungrounded outlet.
Also I have been on a visit to several Electrical Retailers (with a Multi
Meter) and we have no such beastie as an ungrounded Toaster ................
Richard Freeman
news:755e968a.02030...@posting.google.com...
> dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
> isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
It appears that the opinion varies from Country to Country The possibilities
are as follows
Reasons for Earthing the Case
1) The wiring or Element inside the Toater comes adrift and contacts the
chassis
2) Moist Toast / Crumpets / leaking jam causes a path from the element to
chassis
3) Water gets spilt on the Toaster (being in a kitchen etc)
4) Someone sticks a fork or knife in the Toaster to pry out some Toast
reasons for not Earthing the case
5) someone sticks a knife or fork in the Toaster to pry out some Toast
regarding reasons 4 and 5 :
Reason 4 is valid since looking at Toasters I have noticed that they all
have fairly narrow slots and bars about 20mm apart (4/5 of an inch) Given
that prying out toast would require sliding the knife or fork down the side
of the toast it is likely to have reasonably good contact with the Earthed
Chassis.
Reason 5 is probably only valid in a 110V country as I note people have
mentioned that the earthed chassis provides a good earth against being
'slightly grounded' whereas with 240V a higher resistance ground is still
likely to be fatal. In support of this arguement I see that someone from the
UK (220V) pointed out that their Toasters are Earthed
Regards
Richard Freeman
Australia (Earth)
Rich Grise
What country are _you_ in? Evidently one where they don't
teach people not to stick a knife into a toaster. ;-)
--
Cheers!
Rich
"We have met the enemy, and he is us!"
- Pogo Possum, ca. 1950's
Rich Grise
>
> > > What Country are you In ???????????????????????????????????
> > > I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Richard Freeman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Uh.. on Earth, where I live, there are *lots* of two pin toasters.
>
> In Australia Where I live (sorry Same planet you can't disown us that
> easily) Toasters (I imagine we are Talking about the Things you put Toast in
...
Um, in the US, we put bread in them, and toast comes out when it's done.
;-)
Rich Grise
...
> The ungrounded toasters are part of a national program to improve the
> collective intelligence of the electorate by Darwinian means. You
> can tell how well it has been working by considering our current
> president.
IOW, not at all?
> Bob Masta
Speedy Jim
> So...here's a coupla questions for ya...
>
> Are the pins for the ground round? Is the ground pin at the
> top?...bottom?...or side?
>
> Inquiring minds wanna know!!
>
> Have a nice week...
>
> Trent
>
> Cat...the OTHER white meat!
Here ya go: http://kropla.com/electric.htm
Jim
TakeThisOut
( =\~/ )
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TAKETHISOUT budysbackagain(@)THAT TOO a-oh-ell dot com
YD
My Brazilian made toaster is two prong and has a hard plastic shell,
like most all tabletop appliances around here. The case gets only
slightly warm, and there are no exposed metal parts anywhere, not
even on the underside. The heater turns off whether the toast is
stuck or not. The reason for all this insulation is that most all
residential electrical installations are a shamble and grounding is
used only in IT setups, if even then.
YD
Martin D. Bartsch
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
ACK (in Germany and France)
--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande
Andrew Wolny
(snip)
Toasters (I imagine we are Talking about the Things you put Toast in
> .... Pop up when the Toast is done )
...you put toast IN a toaster?
John Larkin
(larrymoencurly) wrote:
>Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
>dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
>isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
Toasters aren't grounded because that makes the bread soggy.
John
Don Kelly
"Bob Masta" <no_...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3c88bfc5...@news.itd.umich.edu...
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 06:02:27 GMT, "Richard Freeman"
> <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >Well I suppose 110V doesn't bite as hard as 240V however another
difference
> >is that death or injury caused by someone sticking a knife in a powered
up
> >Toaster can be attributed to stupidity on the part of the user whereas
death
> >or injury caused by faulty wiring in the Toaster ...................
> >
> >Either way It appears America has chosen to not Earth Toasters whereas In
> >Australia there is no exemption for Toasters from Earthing exposed Metal
> >work who am I to Argue ??
>
> The ungrounded toasters are part of a national program to improve the
> collective intelligence of the electorate by Darwinian means. You
> can tell how well it has been working by considering our current
> president.
-------------------
That's a far more logical idea than mine- I thought it was done so that
people in older (US) homes wouldn't have to saw the ground lug off. Also,
the manufacturer saves a lot of wire that way.
You can make something foolproof but not damnfoolproof
--
Don Kelly
dh...@peeshaw.ca
remove the urine to answer
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
>dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
>isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-28.html
_________________________________________________________________
What's the purpose of the ground prong on an outlet, then?
_________________________________________________________________
Apart from their use in electronics, which we won't comment on,
and for certain fluorescent lights (they won't turn on without
a good ground connection), they're intended to guard against
insulation failures within the device. Generally, the case of
the appliance is connected to the ground lead. If there's an
insulation failure that shorts the hot lead to the case, the
ground lead conducts the electricity away safely (and possibly
trips the circuit breaker in the process). If the case is not
grounded and such a short occurs, the case is live -- and if
you touch it while you're grounded, you'll get zapped. Of
course, if the circuit is GFCI-protected, it will be a very
tiny zap -- which is why you can use GFCIs to replace
ungrounded outlets (both NEC and CEC).
There are some appliances that should *never* be grounded. In
particular, that applies to toasters and anything else with
exposed conductors. Consider: if you touch the heating
electrode in a toaster, and you're not grounded, nothing will
happen. If you're slightly grounded, you'll get a small shock;
the resistance will be too high. But if the case were
grounded, and you were holding it, you'd be the perfect path to
ground...
_________________________________________________________________
--
Tempore brumali vir patiens.
Animo vernali Lasciviens.
O, o, totus floreo,
jam amore virginali totus ardeo,
novus, novus amor est, quo pereo.
Alan Beagley
insulated" (whatever the criteria for such a designation may be).
-=-
Alan
Trent wrote:
> This must obviously just be opinion. It looks like there are millions
> of grounded toasters sold every year in the world.
>
> FWIW...I just bought a new TV today...no ground. I have a
> breadmaker...grounded. Deep fryer...not grounded. Lamps...not
> grounded. Electric shaver...not grounded.
>
> Go figure!
mwlogs
apply butter and jam and eat it? I usually put bread in my toaster, and
after the appropriate application of heat it becomes toast.
"Richard Freeman" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3c8853c7$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> > > What Country are you In ???????????????????????????????????
> > > I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Richard Freeman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Uh.. on Earth, where I live, there are *lots* of two pin toasters.
>
> In Australia Where I live (sorry Same planet you can't disown us that
> easily) Toasters (I imagine we are Talking about the Things you put Toast
in
> .... Pop up when the Toast is done ) typically have a metal Chassis and
are
> Grounded . Of course this may have changed (as I have not purchased a new
> toaster for at least five years) however the Toaster would need to be made
> to Double insulated Standards and none I have seen appear to be made to
that
> Standard. There certainly appears to be no exemption for Toasters in
> Australia.
>
> I love this quote 'Toasters are intentionally not grounded so that when a
> person starts forking around for a stuck piece of toast and they make
> contact with the nichrome heating element, they won't provide a fault path
> from the energized fork, hand, chest, hand and over the grounded metal
> enclosure. In part, this is the reason all countertop receptacles are now
> required to be GFCI protected.'
>
> This is brilliant !! it assumes that Sinks are not grounded that wires
never
> break, that the nichrome element never melts through and comes in contact
> with the Chassis that Toast never burns or touches the element and that
the
> only path to earth possible is via the chassis of the Toaster. The
> Illustration that goes with it makes this point beautifully
>
>
> Well I suppose 110V doesn't bite as hard as 240V however another
difference
> is that death or injury caused by someone sticking a knife in a powered up
> Toaster can be attributed to stupidity on the part of the user whereas
death
> or injury caused by faulty wiring in the Toaster ...................
>
> Either way It appears America has chosen to not Earth Toasters whereas In
> Australia there is no exemption for Toasters from Earthing exposed Metal
> work who am I to Argue ??
>
> BTW all new Houses in Australia are required to have CBRs (GFCIs)
installed
> for all power points except Fridges and have been for at least the last
ten
> years.
>
> Regards
> Richard Freeman
>
>
>
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Why would you put toast in a toaster? It it's already toast, wouldn't you
>apply butter and jam and eat it? I usually put bread in my toaster, and
>after the appropriate application of heat it becomes toast.
Are their any lunatic-fringe hobbiest approaches to making toast?
I remember reading once about a guy who had built a propane-fueled jet
engine in his garage. Not mounted to anything, mind you. It just sat
where it was and sent a thirty-foot flame down the driveway.
The builder thought it was of no practical use until he discovered how
well it worked at cooling his beer.
Are there any similar devices that could be used to toast bread, without
burning down the neighborhood?
--
[A]fter having thus successively taken each member of the community in
its powerful grasp, and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then
extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of
society with a network of complicated rules, minute and uniform, through
which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot
penetrate to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered but
softened, bent and guided; men are seldom forced to act, but they are
constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it
prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates,
extinguishes, and stupifies a people, till each nation is reduced to be
nothing better than a flock of timid and industrial animals, of which
government is the shepard. - I have always thought that servitude of
the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described might
be combined more easily than it is commonly believed with some of the
outward forms of freedom and that it might even establish itself under
the wing of the sovereignty of the people.
- Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America", Part II, Book IV, chap vi.
Sir Charles W. Shults III
laser bread toaster- have it monitor the color and brightness of the bread
and move along when it is right. A nice bunch of
microprocessor-video-laser-programming stuff can be done there.
Make it write your sweetheart's name in the toast, and that would be a
unique item. Say, come to think of it- you could probably put it inside a
regular toaster and when the bread is just about to brown, write the name.
It will continue to brown slightly faster than the rest of the toast and
remain visible unless you burn it.
Cheers!
Chip Shults
My robotics, space and CGI web page - http://home.cfl.rr.com/aichip
Rich Grise
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:
>
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:01:18 GMT, mwlogs <mwl...@exciteNS.com> wrote:
> >Why would you put toast in a toaster? It it's already toast, wouldn't you
> >apply butter and jam and eat it? I usually put bread in my toaster, and
> >after the appropriate application of heat it becomes toast.
>
> Are their any lunatic-fringe hobbiest approaches to making toast?
>
> I remember reading once about a guy who had built a propane-fueled jet
> engine in his garage. Not mounted to anything, mind you. It just sat
> where it was and sent a thirty-foot flame down the driveway.
>
> The builder thought it was of no practical use until he discovered how
> well it worked at cooling his beer.
>
> Are there any similar devices that could be used to toast bread, without
> burning down the neighborhood?
--
no...@_none_.com
wrote:
>How does a thirty-foot flame cool beer?
It takes energy for propane to go from liquid to gas. That energy
could come from a tank of water, lowering the temp of the water. Just
add cans of your favorate beverage. :)
Rich Grise
Actually, I kind of suspected something like that, I just thought
my quip would be clever. ;-} The guy should take a bunch of pictures
and write up a website on the thing. What kind of thrust, fuel
consumption, bought or built, that sort of thing. It'd be cool!
thunder
> none@_none_.com wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:15:00 GMT, Rich Grise
>> <rich...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >How does a thirty-foot flame cool beer?
>>
>> It takes energy for propane to go from liquid to gas. That energy
>> could come from a tank of water, lowering the temp of the water.
>> Just add cans of your favorate beverage. :)
>
> Actually, I kind of suspected something like that, I just thought my
> quip would be clever. ;-} The guy should take a bunch of pictures
> and write up a website on the thing. What kind of thrust, fuel
> consumption, bought or built, that sort of thing. It'd be cool!
Check out: http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
>
> Consider: if you touch the heating
> electrode in a toaster, and you're not grounded, nothing will
> happen. If you're slightly grounded, you'll get a small shock;
> the resistance will be too high. But if the case were
> grounded, and you were holding it, you'd be the perfect path to
> ground...
If you got something stuck in the toaster and tried to pick it out with
a fork or a knife, wouldn't the FIRST danger to you in holding the case
be a burn?!? I would think this would stop most of us in our tracks
before we got to the point of contacting the element.
;-)
That aside, there are lots of situations where the toaster wouldn't be
hot (like someone leaving it for later extracation).
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam | "Nothing quite livens up a suburban
DAXaCK associates | neighbourhood like a driveway boasting
Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada | plastic milk crates loaded with crap."
http://home.ica.net/~calvinhc | -- John Oakley, radio talk-show host
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if replying by email, remove the capital letters!
Richard Freeman
"Dan Musicant" <musi...@SpamNot.pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:5hgi8uso5lrb86kjm...@4ax.com...
Is this an American thing ? anywhere not in the good old US of A is another
Planet. Is this why the USA spent Billions on the Space Program they Merely
wanted to visit other Countries and did not realise they could go Over seas
more cheaply.
Or are you just an incredibly thick and Ignorant individual who is not
reprasentitive of the US as a whole ?
TinMan1332
>least it SOUNDED true...
>
>When our American astronauts first got into space, they found out
>early that a ball-point pen would not write in outer space...because
>of no gravity. So they spent millions...or was it billions?...to
>develop a pen that would write under any conditions...even without
>gravity.
>
>The Russians simply used a pencil!
The Soviet's also got on the "Space Shuttle" band wagon. They thought we were
building one because it would be cheaper and better in the long run. Truth
was, you could launch several Saturn V rockets for the cost of one Shuttle
launch.
The Soviet shuttle did fly once, but it nearly bankrupted their space program.
It now sits in Gorky Park on static display. If only they has stuck with that
pencil mindset.
One should also remember that our glorious space program has been the world's
most costly in terms of morals, money and human life.
Richard J. Rauenzahn
> Sure, take a bunch of IR laser diodes out of old CD players and make a
>laser bread toaster- have it monitor the color and brightness of the bread
>and move along when it is right. A nice bunch of
>microprocessor-video-laser-programming stuff can be done there.
> Make it write your sweetheart's name in the toast, and that would be a
>unique item. Say, come to think of it- you could probably put it inside a
>regular toaster and when the bread is just about to brown, write the name.
>It will continue to brown slightly faster than the rest of the toast and
>remain visible unless you burn it.
How about one that gives you the day's weather forecast by burning a
picture of it onto the toast?
http://google.com/search?hl=en&q=toaster+robin+southgate
Rich
--
Rich Rauenzahn ----------...@cup.hp.comx+ Hewlett-Packard Company
Technical Consultant | I speak for me, | 19055 Pruneridge Ave.
Development Alliances Lab| *not* HP | MS 46TU2
ESPD / E-Serv. Partner Division +--------------+---- Cupertino, CA 95014
Aubrey McIntosh
"Andrew Wolny" <and...@wolny.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a6dvhm$m7p$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Dan Musicant
wrote:
:
:"Dan Musicant" <musi...@SpamNot.pacbell.net> wrote in message
Sorry, I grant you membership in the human race. My mistake. You are
clearly from planet Earth.
Dan
Gfretwell
majority of homes had universal installation of the NEMA 5-15r receptacles with
the ground pin they started making "double insulated" hand tools that come with
2 prong plugs.
Now it is hard to find much of anything inthe consumer grade that uses a
grounded plug. With the exception of the refrigerator and microwave I don't
know of any kitchen appliances that use grounding plugs. It is also hard to
find hand tools, the other traditional grounded equipment, with a grounding
plug.
With the increase in the use of plastic in the wiring methods and boxes I
wonder sometime why we bring grounding conductors to most of the outlets. These
days I suppose surge protection is the biggest reason.
Richard Freeman
> :Is this an American thing ? anywhere not in the good old US of A is
another
> :Planet. Is this why the USA spent Billions on the Space Program they
Merely
> :wanted to visit other Countries and did not realise they could go Over
seas
> :more cheaply.
> :Or are you just an incredibly thick and Ignorant individual who is not
> :reprasentitive of the US as a whole ?
>
> Sorry, I grant you membership in the human race. My mistake. You are
> clearly from planet Earth.
what was it the abuse that gave it away ? or the bad Spielyng ? :-)
howdy
In article <3C896C...@earthlink.net>, rich...@earthlink.net says...
>
>I'm in the US, and I've never seen a 3-pin cord on a toaster.
>
>What country are _you_ in? Evidently one where they don't
>teach people not to stick a knife into a toaster. ;-)
>
>Richard Freeman wrote:
>>
>> "larrymoencurly" <larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:755e968a.02030...@posting.google.com...
>> > Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
>> > dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
>> > isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
>>
>> What Country are you In ???????????????????????????????????
>> All the Toasters I have ever seen are Grounded And I have seen situations
>> where this Grounding has saved people from a nasty electric shock The old
'I
>> might try and dig this piece of stuck toast out of the Toaster with a metal
>> knife without unplugging it from the Wall...............BANG!!!- oh shit!
>> ............. Trick).
>>
>> given that most Toasters have exposed wiring inside them (the heating
>> element is not usually insulated ) which can break and come in contact with
>> the chassis, have large holes for poking things in and metal Cases I fail
to
>> see how a Safe Toaster could be anything other than Grounded.
>>
>> I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
>>
>> Regards
>> Richard Freeman
Mark
plugs years ago. They stopped that practice because of the inherent danger
of sticking a fork in and causing a dangerous human exposer to the current
as it passed thru the toaster body on its way to a ground. Now a-days, the
toaster is designed to never be energized, thus reducing the possiblity of
shock.
The topic of grounding devices is a controversial and ever changing issue
in the NEC (national electric code). For example I believe electric stoves
are required to have the chasis grounded, yet they seem like a big toaster
to me. I trust there is sound reasoning behind all the rules of grounding.
Seems the grounding requirements are different for different devices, but
are nevertheless, essential for safety. Notice that your PC is 3 prong and
many other modern devices.
Alan R. Winstanley
Alan Winstanley
In article <u96flk8...@corp.supernews.com>, howdy
<bras...@charter.net> writes
HeatMan
"Alan R. Winstanley" <alanwi...@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:yi+SMLAn...@lineone.net...
Gfretwell
I suspect the thinking on kitchen appliances is that they are supposed to be
plugged into a GFCI (all receptacles serving the counter tops) so there is not
as much danger as you might have in other locations
Gfretwell
>
If you got the phasing backward would it turn toast into fresh white bread?
allana
wrote:
the magic words are....Double Insulated AND..PLASTIC
Richard Freeman
> >>>
> >>> I have never seen a Toaster with a two pin Cord....................
> the magic words are....Double Insulated AND..PLASTIC
Nope doesnt work either the majority of Toasters on the Market in This
country
1) are Metal
2) are Earthed
3) get bloody hot (which melts a lot of Plastics) :-)
Mark
just for the fun of it, here is link to a modern day toaster with 3 prongs.
http://www.wolfstoves.com/Waring/WaringToaster.html
Mark :)
"Trent" <trent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:502c9u8v4n7q12vin...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:39:05 GMT, "Mark" <MCHA...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >This is second hand information. Electric toasters used to have 3 prong
> >plugs years ago.
>
> Not in the U.S., Mark.
>
> I can remember the toasters where you had to open up the sides...and
> the put the bread in. Then you'd have to open again and turn
> them...to brown the other side.
>
> Since that model to today, I've never seen one that is grounded.
>
> >They stopped that practice because of the inherent danger
> >of sticking a fork in and causing a dangerous human exposer to the
current
> >as it passed thru the toaster body on its way to a ground. Now a-days,
the
> >toaster is designed to never be energized, thus reducing the possiblity
of
> >shock.
>
> I'm certainly not an expert on electricity. But I think toasters
> CAN'T be grounded...because of the way they work. If they were
> grounded, they would trip the breaker or fuse.
>
> Maybe someone can jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I
> think the ones in Europe aren't grounded, EITHER. They simply run on
> 220...110 on each leg. If they were grounded, wouldn't they require
> another pin in the plug? I think a grounded 220 plugs requires 4
> pins. Although everybody from there said the toasters were grounded,
> I wonder if that's what they really meant. I wonder if they simply
> meant that they have 3 pins.
>
>
> Have a nice week...
>
> Trent
>
> Cat...the OTHER white meat!
TakeThisOut
>
>>This is second hand information. Electric toasters used to have 3 prong
>>plugs years ago.
>
>Not in the U.S., Mark.
>
>I can remember the toasters where you had to open up the sides...and
>the put the bread in. Then you'd have to open again and turn
>them...to brown the other side.
>
>Since that model to today, I've never seen one that is grounded.
>
>>They stopped that practice because of the inherent danger
>>of sticking a fork in and causing a dangerous human exposer to the current
>>as it passed thru the toaster body on its way to a ground. Now a-days, the
>>toaster is designed to never be energized, thus reducing the possiblity of
>>shock.
>
>I'm certainly not an expert on electricity. But I think toasters
>CAN'T be grounded...because of the way they work. If they were
>grounded, they would trip the breaker or fuse.
How do you figure that???
>Maybe someone can jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong,
DIBS!
but I
>think the ones in Europe aren't grounded, EITHER. They simply run on
>220...110 on each leg. If they were grounded, wouldn't they require
>another pin in the plug?
No you have it all wrong. In Europe they run everything on 220... and that's
220v from hot to neutral.
Between the 2 phases of a single phase system, they get something less than 440
but I don't know what it is. At any rate, residential services in Europe only
get one of the hot phases anyway...
> I think a grounded 220 plugs requires 4
>pins.
Not in Europe. Hot ---> neutral is 220, and then there's earth.
> Although everybody from there said the toasters were grounded,
>I wonder if that's what they really meant. I wonder if they simply
>meant that they have 3 pins.
I believe all they're plugs are 3-pin, even if the appliance attached doesn't
need a ground. It ensures proper polarization since every plug also contains a
fuse.
>
>
>Have a nice week...
>
>Trent
>
>Cat...the OTHER white meat!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
.
TAKETHISOUT budysbackagain(@)THAT TOO a-oh-ell dot com
db...@sprynet.com
> >plugs years ago.
>
>
> I can remember the toasters where you had to open up the sides...and
> the put the bread in. Then you'd have to open again and turn
> them...to brown the other side.
>
> Since that model to today, I've never seen one that is grounded.
>
> >of sticking a fork in and causing a dangerous human exposer to the current
> >as it passed thru the toaster body on its way to a ground. Now a-days, the
> >toaster is designed to never be energized, thus reducing the possiblity of
> >shock.
>
> CAN'T be grounded...because of the way they work. If they were
> grounded, they would trip the breaker or fuse.
>
> think the ones in Europe aren't grounded, EITHER. They simply run on
> 220...110 on each leg. If they were grounded, wouldn't they require
> pins. Although everybody from there said the toasters were grounded,
> I wonder if that's what they really meant. I wonder if they simply
> meant that they have 3 pins.
>
>
> Trent
>
> Cat...the OTHER white meat!
have three plugs for a 120 volts service..its gounded so the mention of
it not working is not correct.. its probably like other posters said
that it will cause more harm with a fork being shoved into the
toaster.., which was a common thing years ago.. never heard of anyone
shoving a fork into a floor heater.........
TakeThisOut
>(TakeThisOut) wrote:
>
>>Between the 2 phases of a single phase system, they get something less than
>440
>>but I don't know what it is. At any rate, residential services in Europe
>only
>>get one of the hot phases anyway...
>
>
>Are you saying that the total voltage coming into a European home is
>generally near 440v?...about 220 volts from each leg?
No. What I'm saying is, in the USA we get 2 120v legs which, to neutral yield
120v, or, 240v between each 120v leg.
Overseas, they only get 1 leg and 1 neutral, and that leg is 220v to neutral
(or ground) They don't get both hot legs like we do.
From what I have heard, (Irish electrician who also worked some time in
England) their stepdown transformers will theoretically provide 440 or so
between phases, however, no one residence or shop would ever get a 220/440 v
service because nothing runs on 440v.
Also they have no outlets in their bathrooms.
Also, split-buss panels in homes are the norm there, with the main and
permanently connected lighting fixtures on the top, and then an "ELCG" (Earth
leak circuit breaker, or GFI) main which will protect every outlet in the
house.
>
>And...what voltage do the toasters run on? Is the 3rd pin the
>neutral?...or is it the ground?
>
>
>Have a nice one...
>
>Trent
>
>Cat...the OTHER white meat!
.
allana
>here is the deal..a toaster is simply a resistive element ACROSS
the mains..and these resistors get hot which translates into infra
red energy and convects heat to the food.. so if only two wires are
used..each time you place toast into the chamber, you risk touching
the METAL?? housing and if you are near a sink, and touch the metal
part of the sink while touching the toaster housing, you will get an
electric shock..to prevent this ..ALL countries use a two prong cord
that has one prong bigger than the other to force you to plug into an
outlet in a SAFE manner..the outlet is usually designed to accept the
lug in a KEYED fashion.Then you are fairly safe..If you have a 3 prong
cord , you risk the danger of touching one side of the heating element
to the chassis, which is earth ground, and it is the same as touching
the sink frame and a hot mains wire..So the 3 wire is not safer..
the 3 prong plugs disappeared when the POLARIZED AC connector was
invented to accept a POLARIZED two prong plug..
Alan R. Winstanley
<polya...@hotmail.com> writes
The UK uses 3-wire power cords (including, on my toaster). The ground
pin is longer to guarantee that when it's plugged into the mains, the
toaster will be grounded first before the mains (hot) phase is
connected.
Grounding of the exposed metalwork then ensures that if a wire comes
adrift inside and touches the chassis, then it is made very easy for a
fault current to flow to ground, which immediately melts the fuse or
trips the RCD and disconnects the supply.
The girders and metal floors of entire power station buildings are
grounded using copper busbars for the same reason.
--
Alan Winstanley - On-Line Editor email: al...@epemag.demon.co.uk
Everyday Practical Electronics Magazine
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk
Online Shop -- Buy Back Issues, PCBs, reprints, CD ROMs on-line!
Thomas
> Check out: http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/
ROTFL!
From there you gotta check the Star Wars asciimation!
Richard Freeman
not to install the japanese language pack (since I cannot read Japanese
anyway ) however I will deal with your points one at a time
> >here is the deal..a toaster is simply a resistive element ACROSS
> the mains..and these resistors get hot which translates into infra
> red energy and convects heat to the food..
and also convects heat to any heat to a plastic case which will soon melt or
breakdown
> so if only two wires are
> used..each time you place toast into the chamber, you risk touching
> the METAL?? housing and if you are near a sink, and touch the metal
> part of the sink while touching the toaster housing, you will get an
> electric shock..
I can only imagine that American Toasters have their case insulated from the
element
> to prevent this .. ALL countries use a two prong cord
> that has one prong bigger than the other to force you to plug into an
> outlet in a SAFE manner..
Have you actually been overseas and Verified this I can assure you that in
Australia we use a three pin plug
> the outlet is usually designed to accept the
> lug in a KEYED fashion.Then you are fairly safe..If you have a 3 prong
> cord , you risk the danger of touching one side of the heating element
> to the chassis, which is earth ground,
and which a result of being earthed then blows the Mains Fuse
> and it is the same as touching
> the sink frame and a hot mains wire..So the 3 wire is not safer..
In the situation you just described 3 pin (Active, Neutral and Earth) is
safer
This is a point which was under some debate earlier on in this thread I will
reiterate the Arguments I thought up for and against :
Reasons for Earthing the Case
1) The wiring or Element inside the Toater comes adrift and contacts the
chassis
2) Moist Toast / Crumpets / leaking jam causes a path from the element to
chassis
3) Water gets spilt on the Toaster (being in a kitchen etc)
4) Someone sticks a fork or knife in the Toaster to pry out some Toast
reasons for not Earthing the case
5) someone sticks a knife or fork in the Toaster to pry out some Toast
regarding reasons 4 and 5 :
Reason 4 is valid since looking at Toasters I have noticed that they all
have fairly narrow slots and bars about 20mm apart (4/5 of an inch) Given
that prying out toast would require sliding the knife or fork down the side
of the toast it is likely to have reasonably good contact with the Earthed
Chassis.
Reason 5 is probably only valid in a 110V country as I note people have
mentioned that the earthed chassis provides a good earth against being
'slightly grounded' whereas with 240V a higher resistance ground is still
likely to be fatal. In support of this arguement I see that someone from the
UK (220V) pointed out that their Toasters are Earthed
I note that noone else added any Arguments for and/or against
> the 3 prong plugs disappeared when the POLARIZED AC connector was
> invented to accept a POLARIZED two prong plug..
Now I you have me curious and I will have to ask this which Country are you
in ?
Japan ? In Australia we still use three prong Plugs as they do in england
and I am sure many other Countries
allana
I am from a famous british colony
>
Richard Freeman
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:55:12 GMT, "Richard Freeman"
> <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >O.k I may have missed something as since I cannot read japanese I elected
ummm sorry allana I see you have responded but I do not appear to be
able to see the response - could you please post again ??
Richard Freeman
allana
it's not nice to fool mother nature..ever hear of your
local...LIBRARY
Martin D. Bartsch
wrote:
>electric shock..to prevent this ..ALL countries use a two prong cord
^^^
You are welcom to visit my toaster with 3-prong-cord in France
>the 3 prong plugs disappeared when the POLARIZED AC connector was
>invented to accept a POLARIZED two prong plug..
There are no polarized plugs in Germany. And they are all 3 prong
--
Martin D. Bartsch
ARD Paris
German TV Allemande
Jeffrey C. Dege
>On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:24:21 GMT, polya...@hotmail.com (allana)
>wrote:
>
>>electric shock..to prevent this ..ALL countries use a two prong cord
> ^^^
>You are welcom to visit my toaster with 3-prong-cord in France
>
>>the 3 prong plugs disappeared when the POLARIZED AC connector was
>>invented to accept a POLARIZED two prong plug..
>
>There are no polarized plugs in Germany. And they are all 3 prong
I think I should point out, at this stage of the argument, that just
because the plug has three prongs does not mean that the appliance
is grounded.
It's perfectly feasible to leave the grounding wire disconnected at one
end or the other - and if your standard plug always has a grounding
connector, on appliances where it has been judged that grounding the
case is an unsafe thing to do, this may be standard practice.
--
Pooh's Law of Self-Discovery: Eliminate all the outside influences,
and whatever remains, however improbable, must be yourself.
Richard Freeman
> >snip stuff
> >
> >ummm sorry allana I see you have responded but I do not appear to be
> >able to see the response - could you please post again ??
> >
> >Richard Freeman
> it's not nice to fool mother nature..ever hear of your
> local...LIBRARY
I think your last response made more sense. What are you trying to say
here? that your last response was posted at the Library or that I
should download the Japanese language pack and spend several
labourious hours decoding Japanese ???
or that the AS rules regarding Earthing are at the Libraray (FYI the
rules state that exposed Metal work needs to be earthed - including
Toasters)
Richard Freeman
Richard Freeman
> I think I should point out, at this stage of the argument, that just
> because the plug has three prongs does not mean that the appliance
> is grounded.
True however a continuity check with a multimeter is a pretty good
indicator ...... and All the toasters I have checked have had an
earthed metal case (Australia)
Richard Freeman
allana
I don't know where all of this text came from..I simply answered a
query regarding the grounding of a toaster..I made several statements
that were supposedly objective in content..not aimed at any individual
nor was is meant to inflame anyone..As I recall..I wrote something to
this effect.. [1]- that toasters are basically resistive
ekements..that glow infra-red [2]that the toasters don't require
mandtory 3 prong cords due to the advent of double insulation
techniques and the newer plastics [and they are heat resistant] [3]
that if you had a metal frame, the element could short to the frame
[4] that if you had a metal frame, you could touch the frame and a
metal sink and get a shock, since only two wires are used, one wire
would be at the same potential as the metal housing unless it was
isolated from the heating elements.[double insulation] [5]if 3 wires
were used , the case would be earth ground, but the sink may not be,
and again you could have the possibility of shock [6] if you have 3
wires and you put a metal utensil inside the toaster, you risk
shorting the element to the metal case and risk a shock
again{certainly it might blow the fuse too}[7] I said that the 2
prong plug is designed so that one prong is wider for a mechanical
protection , since it is designed to ONLY fit the NEWER POLARIZED 2
pin socket which has 1 slot wider to accept the new 2 prong plug [in
fact the newer 3 prong plugs have incorporated this wide slot also]
Now..granted that I may not know all countries and their types of
outlets but..I only listed a bunch of facts relating to the safety of
toasters..How this became a clash of IDEALS.. I don't know..
Now if this reply gets to you without some-one intercepting it and
snipping it ..then you will see what I posted..or at least the intent
of what I posted..and ..as someone intimated..I am not a salesman..my
expertise is in manufacturing, and I am very involved in safety..
You can certainly take exception to anything I say, and I would hope
that you would improve on my statement..my country follows the
guidelines of Underwriters Labs.. and that is what I must mfr to. If
my product is to go to Europe or Asia, then I must build to all of the
different guidelines posted in all of these countries..and so, I can
only give a reply that is generic to Toasters NOT specific brands of
countries..sorry for the wordiness..no offense was intended in my
post.. but it sure got ripped up as it moved around..
C-H Gustafsson
> >Are you saying that the total voltage coming into a European home is
> >generally near 440v?...about 220 volts from each leg?
>
> No. What I'm saying is, in the USA we get 2 120v legs which, to neutral yield
> 120v, or, 240v between each 120v leg.
>
> Overseas, they only get 1 leg and 1 neutral, and that leg is 220v to neutral
> (or ground) They don't get both hot legs like we do.
European countries normally use 3-phase, not the Edison system.
Therefore there are three hot wires, not just two.
Normally, 230/400V with 1, 2 or 3 phases plus neutral is brought into
the house. In some cases (133)/230V with 2 or 3 phases but no neutral.
Toasters run on 230V. And yes - they are grounded.
>
> From what I have heard, (Irish electrician who also worked some time in
> England) their stepdown transformers will theoretically provide 440 or so
> between phases, however, no one residence or shop would ever get a 220/440 v
> service because nothing runs on 440v.
Not in Ireland. But in Germany - and other countries - cookers and a
number of other appliances run on 400V 'single' or 3-phase.
>
> Also they have no outlets in their bathrooms.
>
Some countries do, some don't.
/Clas-Henrik
Martin D. Bartsch
Dege) wrote:
>I think I should point out, at this stage of the argument, that just
>because the plug has three prongs does not mean that the appliance
>is grounded.
>It's perfectly feasible to leave the grounding wire disconnected at one
>end or the other - and if your standard plug always has a grounding
>connector, on appliances where it has been judged that grounding the
>case is an unsafe thing to do, this may be standard practice.
In Germany it is not allowed to use a 3-wire-cord with a
double-insulated device. There is another type of prong which fits in
the grounded outlet but has no contact for the ground. So you can see
on the cord if the unit is grounded or double-insulated.
David Combs
Trent <trent...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 15 Mar 2002 16:57:19 GMT, gfre...@aol.com (Gfretwell) wrote:
>
>>This is an interesting topic. It seemed that just about the time that the
>>majority of homes had universal installation of the NEMA 5-15r receptacles with
>>the ground pin they started making "double insulated" hand tools that come with
>>2 prong plugs.
>>Now it is hard to find much of anything inthe consumer grade that uses a
>>grounded plug. With the exception of the refrigerator and microwave I don't
>>know of any kitchen appliances that use grounding plugs.
>
>But I don't think its because of being double-insulated.
>
>My toaster is metal...my deep fryer is metal, etc...and they do not
>have a ground plug. But my breadmaker does.
>
>> It is also hard to
>>find hand tools, the other traditional grounded equipment, with a grounding
>>plug.
>
>My circular saw does...about 2 years old.
>
>
Perhaps it's only things that contain *motors* that
get grounded plugs?
David
Gfretwell
>get grounded plugs?
>
Nope, My circular saw, drill and two side grinders (along with a half dozen
motorized kitchen appliances) come with 2 prong plugs.
John Gilmer
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020331112927...@mb-dh.aol.com...
That's because they are supposed to be "double" insulated.
applianceguy
I think it was a Toastmaster and was marked INDUSTRIAL in big letters, of
course. It looked like it was from the 50's, chrome everywhere. It weighed
nothing, toasted slowly, and felt kind-of flimsy. It was in use in a motel
lobby during the "FREE" continental breakfast. I suspect it was mostly
designed for show but it did have a grounded plug and was properly plugged
into a grounded outlet. The cord was about 18", tho...
Paul
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020331112927...@mb-dh.aol.com...
Mike
out
Al Brennan
><bras...@charter.net> writes
>>I saw a five prong one once, but of course that was on the planet neptune.....
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:35:51 +0000, "Alan R. Winstanley"
<alanwi...@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>I don't get it. It's well known that Neptunian toasters use three phase.
Well of course, a 3-phase toaster, Neptunian or otherwise,
would have a 5-prong plug. Since we're on the subject, I
might mention that Nikola Tesla was responsible for the
implementation of 3-phase power on Neptune. The Neptunians
were very impressed with the success of his death ray in
pulverizing Siberia, and had him shipped in to design their
entire grid system. Impressive work.
TakeThisOut
>Well of course, a 3-phase toaster, Neptunian or otherwise,
>would have a 5-prong plug. Since we're on the subject, I
>might mention that Nikola Tesla was responsible for the
>implementation of 3-phase power on Neptune. The Neptunians
>were very impressed with the success of his death ray in
>pulverizing Siberia, and had him shipped in to design their
>entire grid system. Impressive work.
Why would a 3-phase toaster require a neutral? 3 phase motors don't.
It would be a 4-prong plug.
The 4th prong being the ground.
If you switched 2 phases, would the toaster freeze the bread?
Mark
the surface white. But that's only true south of the equator where the
earth's magnetic poles are reversed from up North here.
Blake Baysinger
"Mark" <MCHA...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:m9nt8.14607$t7.45...@twister.kc.rr.com...
Rich Grise
I think I've seen actual industrial-strength 3-phase toasters
on Earth, but you wouldn't want to get it too close to
Uranus.
:-)
Rich
ånønÿmøu§
a piece toast out, that it would guarantee a 50% chance that you would
get a good shock (at least)!
Heath Young
In Australia (where I am) all of the toasters are grounded.
Cheers
Heath Young
Richard Freeman
"Heath Young" <heath...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3CE078D1...@hotmail.com...
> It encourages natural selection.
>
> In Australia (where I am) all of the toasters are grounded.
>
> Cheers
> Heath Young
now just wait ..... a large number of Americans seem to be unable to
distinguish between a different Country and a different Planet .........
John Fields
> now just wait ..... a large number of Americans seem to be unable to
> distinguish between a different Country and a different Planet .........
---
Here in Texas we don't have that problem; there's Texas and then there's
only everything else.
---
John Fields
Professional circuit designer
http://www.austininstruments.com
please add "nospam" in subject line to email
Skip
"John Fields" <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:3CE13854...@austininstruments.com...
> Here in Texas we don't have that problem; there's Texas and then there's
> only everything else.
Yeah, I remember a lot of Texans feeling that way when they would come to
New Mexico to ski. We had two bumper stickers on our cars 1) "If God had
meant Texans to ski, he would have made them a mountain" 2) "Get your Texass
home!" Haven't been there in a while, don't know if the sentiment is still
the same :)
Andrew Kohlsmith
> New Mexico to ski. We had two bumper stickers on our cars 1) "If God had
> meant Texans to ski, he would have made them a mountain" 2) "Get your
> Texass home!" Haven't been there in a while, don't know if the sentiment
> is still the same :)
I used to work with a Texan; it was a real disappointment for him when I
said that the province I lived in was big enough to contain four Texases
within its bounaries, and that it was only the second largest province in
Canada. :-)
Regards,
Andrew
Long Duk Dong
Peak and it reaches over 8000 feet. I don't think you could ski down it
though. One of the more interesting things about Texas is the great variety
of landscape - beaches, mountains, valleys, forests, deserts, you pretty
much name it and Texas has it. Texas also claims the country's first
suspension bridge, the country's first domed stadium, the world's longest
fishing pier, the worlds largest rose garden and the worlds first rodeo,
among other things. Some people are also surprised to learn that if you are
in El Paso you are closer to California than to Dallas, but then I'm sure
you already knew that.
Duk
"Andrew Kohlsmith" <akohlsm...@mixdown.org> wrote in message
news:UAgE8.13447$Z6.1...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
Graham
> I always thought this was done, so when you used a butter knife to get
> a piece toast out, that it would guarantee a 50% chance that you would
> get a good shock (at least)!
Why would you put a knife into a live toaster?
Graham
Michael A. Terrell
Its a common way to try to qualify for a Darwin Award!
Don Phillipson
news:ac073b$ffd$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> > I always thought this was done, so when you used a butter knife to get
> > a piece toast out, that it would guarantee a 50% chance that you would
> > get a good shock (at least)!
No problem with Swedish butter knives.
They are made of wood.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphil...@trytel.com.com.com.less2
Kahlua53
> I always thought this was done, so when you used a butter knife to get
> a piece toast out, that it would guarantee a 50% chance that you would
> get a good shock (at least)!
Sounds like someone should READ the manual that comes with Toaster or just buy
a Fisher Price model...
Remove NoSpam to reply, Thanks
tlug...@gmail.com
> Is it true that grounding a toaster could actually make it more
> dangerous than running it from a 2-wire cord, even when the outlet
> isn't GFCI protected? I've never seen a toaster that had a 3-wire cord.
I've never seen a three prong plug on a toaster.
micky
own appliance was electrocuted (to death) by it.
After that, the rule was that anything one brought in, a radio, a fan,
and I'm not sure what else people had, had to have a 3-prong plug.
I don't know if fans and radio like that were for sale or not, but one
could rewire what he had. For example, I have an Emerson AM table radio
that has a chip out of the case so that the chassis of the radio can sit
on a metal table we had. When it did that, if you touched the table and
the metal edge of the formica kitchen counter, one got a constant small
shock. It would have been easy enough to replace the cord and plug and
attach the new ground wire to the chassis.
As I recall, the steel company's rule applied to the mill and the
offices both, but I had a fan that they didn't object to. OTOH, my
recollection is that I replaced my plug-in radio with a Panasonic
transistor radio. You might remember the model. It had no round
corners like those meant to go into pockets. Instead it was/is in the
shape of an AC table radio, with legs, but much smaller, about 4"x2"x2",
black- and silver-colored with a lid that ran the width of the radio,
opened up and had room for small things.
Anyhow, I only worked there for a few more months