How do i find a wood stud behind a wall that has a stone facade?

[Oscar]

I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't seem to
find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone facade.
Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.

--
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[Brother Harry]

On 09/28/2013 05:44 PM, Oscar wrote:
> I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't seem to
> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone facade.
> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>

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[Homer]

他妈的机智

[gonjah]

On 9/28/2013 5:56 PM, Homer wrote:
> 他妈的机智

له تمتص اللاتينية

[Amos]

On 09/28/2013 06:56 PM, Homer wrote:
> On 9/28/2013 6:11 PM, Brother Harry wrote:
>> On 09/28/2013 05:44 PM, Oscar wrote:
>>> I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't
>>> seem to
>>> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone
>>> facade.
>>> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>>>
>>
>> Duis wisi verto suscipit. Luptatum vel ut accumsan nostrud epulae
>> refoveo eu demoveo te interdico.
>> Fere eum aliquip similis vindico comis augue venio ullamcorper damnum
>> tation comis.

Normalizing pulse coating network. Record includes port normalizing prototype super interactive video phase mass normalizing.
With integral interface solution thermal. Potentiometer equalized patch.
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>> Hendrerit nulla vero qui volutpat meus.
>>
>> Autem cogo nutus nulla dignissim secundum ullamcorper.
>> Huic plaga abbas duis. Os quadrum abico.
>> Os populus ad nunc dolus euismod commoveo abbas augue lenis.
>> Nullus quadrum luptatum venio hendrerit vulputate aptent.
>>
>> Vero os distineo exputo. Ut tristique obruo. Venio ut wisi.
>> Distineo si nibh.
>
> 他妈的机智

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Solution proxy scan transmission cable terminal. Plasma port modular inducer high system spawned.
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recursive hybrid passive interval.

[nestork]

'Oscar[_3_ Wrote:
> ;3127608']I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place.

> Can't seem to
> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone
> facade.
> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>
> --
> posted from

> 'How do i find a wood stud behind a wall that has a stone facade?'
> (http://tinyurl.com/ksnlyyq)

> using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
> to home and garden related groups

Oscar:

Since this is a fireplace, I'm presuming it's an exterior wall and
finding the stud locations from the other side will be equally
difficult.

In a case like this, about the only thing you can do is determine where
they should be from a known stud location. If there is an electrical
outlet or switch on that fireplace wall, take the cover plate off and
see which side of the electrical box the stud is on. You know the studs
will be on 16 inch centers, so you can measure off multiples of 16
inches to find the locations of the studs where the mantle is.

Now, obviously, studs aren't always straight, and you may not hit one
using this method, so drill your holes if possible into the mortar
joints between the stones on the facade. That way, if you don't hit a
stud, you can enlarge those holes an put hollow wall anchors into them
to hold the mantle. And, when the time comes to remove the mantle you
can remove the hollow wall anchors and fill those holes with brick
mortar to make for a relatively invisible repair.

http://www.ucanfast.com/admin/fasteners/p119_full.jpg

I can't help but question your use of cedar for a mantle. Cedar is one
of the softest woods there is to make anything out of, and a working
surface like a mantle has to be hard to stand up well so that it's not
scratched by hard materials like picture frames and such that are placed
on it. I think you should use a hard finish on that cedar, like an oil
based polyurethane for hardwood floors to protect the cedar from being
scratched.




--
nestork

[DerbyDad03]

nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
> 'Oscar[_3_ Wrote:
>> ;3127608']I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place.
>> Can't seem to
>> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone
>> facade.
>> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>>

>

> Oscar:
>
> Since this is a fireplace, I'm presuming it's an exterior wall and
> finding the stud locations from the other side will be equally
> difficult.
>
> In a case like this, about the only thing you can do is determine where
> they should be from a known stud location. If there is an electrical
> outlet or switch on that fireplace wall, take the cover plate off and
> see which side of the electrical box the stud is on. You know the studs
> will be on 16 inch centers, so you can measure off multiples of 16
> inches to find the locations of the studs where the mantle is.
>

How do you know his studs are on 16" OC?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

99.999% of north american construction in the last 80 years or so is
16"oc for wall studs

[DerbyDad03]

nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
> 'Oscar[_3_ Wrote:
>> ;3127608']I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place.
>> Can't seem to
>> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone
>> facade.
>> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>>

...snip...

>
> I can't help but question your use of cedar for a mantle. Cedar is one
> of the softest woods there is to make anything out of, and a working
> surface like a mantle has to be hard to stand up well so that it's not
> scratched by hard materials like picture frames and such that are placed
> on it. I think you should use a hard finish on that cedar, like an oil
> based polyurethane for hardwood floors to protect the cedar from being
> scratched.
>
>
>

If the picture here are any indication, cedar is used as a mantle in some
pretty nice homes.

http://www.houzz.com/%22Cedar-mantel%22/p/8

[DerbyDad03]

Cite? ;-)

How do you know his house is less than 80 years old?

[Ralph Mowery]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:q45f495glngrsvpnf...@4ax.com...

>>
>>How do you know his studs are on 16" OC?
> 99.999% of north american construction in the last 80 years or so is
> 16"oc for wall studs

I don't know much about construction pracrtices now, but wasn't it not too
long ago ( say 1970s) that many homes were constructed of 2x6 outside walls
and 24 inches on center ?

[micky]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:44:02 +0000, Oscar
<caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't seem to
>find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone facade.
>Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.

The floor above isn't an unfinished attic, is it? Or maybe partially
finished.

You can see the tops of the studs if it is. Or at least you can
tell by nail heads where the upper plate is nailed to the studs.
It's probably the second.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

2X6 on 16 is pretty well standard now around here.

[nestork]

Ralph Mowery;3127669 Wrote:
> cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote in message

> news:q45f495glngrsvpnf...@4ax.com...--
>
> How do you know his studs are on 16" OC?-

> 99.999% of north american construction in the last 80 years or so is

> 16"oc for wall studs-

>
> I don't know much about construction pracrtices now, but wasn't it not
> too
> long ago ( say 1970s) that many homes were constructed of 2x6 outside
> walls
> and 24 inches on center ?

Ralph:
Lots of homes have their exterior walls built with 2X6's and stud
spacing in both interior and exterior walls of 24 inches isn't uncommon
either. I don't know if 24 inch spacing is more common with metal studs
or not, but I've been hearing of 24 inch spacing for wall studs for at
least the past 10 years so I presume someone somewhere is doing it.
However, 16 inch spacing is still the most common to see, and in
this case it's a Hail Mary Pass to find the studs in the wall. About
all the OP can do in this case is measure from a known stud location,
and if I had to do that I'd be betting that my walls used 16 inch stud
spacing just like most of the construction out there has, still does,
and probably will continue to use for the foreseeable future.
But, since there's a good chance he's not going to hit a stud where
he drills, I recommended that he drill through the mortar joints of his
faux stone wall and use hollow wall anchors as a fall back plan.
That way, he can always fill in the holes he drills with brick mortar to
make the repair as invisible as possible. He couldn't do that if he
drills into the stone, which he might do if he was inexperienced in this
kind of work.

Cedar is a very soft wood; easily the softest commonly available at
lumber yards. Cedar is fairly easy to identify by it's colour variation
and indistinct grain, but an easy check is to dig your thumbnail into
it. Your thumbnail will penetrate easily into the wood, and much deeper
for the same effort than it would dig into spruce.




--
nestork

[Pavel314]

If the fireplace has a metal insert, try removing that to see if the studs are visible behind it.

Paul

[Stormin Mormon]

Peace be unto him.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[DerbyDad03]

The point here is that you said "You *know* (my emphasis) the studs will be
on 16 inch centers..."

No, you and I, and I assume the OP, don't *know* that.

Since the OP came here looking for stud finding advice, I feel that it's
improper to use the words "you know" when there is nothing in his question
to indicate that he (or we) know anything about the actual stud spacing.

12" OC, 16" OC, 24" OC, non-evenly spaced studs because of the chimney or
even non-evenly spaced studs because of shoddy workmanship are all
possible. We don't *know* and apparently neither does the OP.

[k...@attt.bizz]

That's certainly not true. Many homes are 2x6 24" O.C. on exterior
walls.

[k...@attt.bizz]

"Now" and "around here" don't make up 99.999% of North American
houses. 2x6 on 24 was standard in the NE just a few years back. It
may still be, dunno. The standard here in the SE seems to be 2x6 on
16 but we don't have Winter. ;-)

[bob haller]

drill a small hole from above and use a harbor freight camera that fits in the hole.

in cld weather how about one of those infrared cameras.

[Tony Hwang]

bob haller wrote:
> drill a small hole from above and use a harbor freight camera that fits in the hole.
>
> in cld weather how about one of those infrared cameras.
>

Hi,
Stud finder won't find it? Fore it works preety well.

[nestork]

micky;3127680 Wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:44:02 +0000, Oscar
> caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com wrote:

> -

> I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't seem
> to
> find a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone
> facade.

> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.-

>
> The floor above isn't an unfinished attic, is it? Or maybe partially
> finished.
>
> You can see the tops of the studs if it is. Or at least you can
> tell by nail heads where the upper plate is nailed to the studs.
> It's probably the second.

Micky:
No, that won't work either.
There will be two "top plates on exterior walls. They overlap the two
top plates to keep the corner's square. So, you'd have to remove one
top plate in order to find out where the nails in the lower top plate
are located to find the stud locations. Wish I knew the terminology
better, but looking at the upper top plate on an exterior wall won't
tell you where the studs are located because you won't see the nail
heads.

Derby Dad: I'm just trying to do my best to help this guy out. If you
were to do the same, you'd spend less time arguing with me and more time
helping.




--
nestork

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 14:11:14 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Stud finder won't find it?

"... deep scanning capabilities"?

<http://www.franklinsensors.com/products/prosensor_710_details.php>

[DerbyDad03]

nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

...snip...

>
> Derby Dad: I'm just trying to do my best to help this guy out. If you
> were to do the same, you'd spend less time arguing with me and more time
> helping.
>

I am helping. By pointing out that the OP doesn't actually know that the
studs are 16" OC I am preventing him from going on a wild goose chase.

Your suggestion to find a stud in the open field and measure from there was
a good one, other than the use of the word "know". Since we do not know
his level of expertise, he may firmly believe what you said and spent more
time than necessary looking for that elusive 16" OC stud behind the stone.

Bottom line, we do not *know* that his studs are 16" OC in the area around
the fireplace.

Depending on how the stone was installed, your suggestion to go in through
a mortar joint was a good one. Perhaps - but we don't know - they did it
right and used cement board. Using the type of wall anchor you suggested
would hold really well if there is cement board behind the stone.

With all of the sound advice you've given in this group, I'm actually
surprised you used the word "know", but since you did, I wanted to make
sure the OP was aware that nothing is 100% certain when it comes to wall
construction. As others have pointed out, there are different ways to build
a wall.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:52:43 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>...snip...
>
>>
>> Derby Dad: I'm just trying to do my best to help this guy out. If you
>> were to do the same, you'd spend less time arguing with me and more time
>> helping.
>>
>
>I am helping. By pointing out that the OP doesn't actually know that the
>studs are 16" OC I am preventing him from going on a wild goose chase.

If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
BY FAR the most common stud spacing in North American construction is,
has been for a long time, and will continue to be for a long time, 16
inches on center. SO - in order to find the studs the OP is looking
for, assuming 16 inch centers MAKES SENSE. It is the most common
layout - so what he should try first. Find a stud not covered by
stone, and measure 16, 32, or 48 inches from the center of that stud,
drill a hole through the mortar joint, and see if you found a stud. If
you did not, drill at a 45 degree angle to the left or the right fron
the same entry point and see if you find a stud. If not, start
drilling more small holes every 2 or so inches until you find one -
and patch the holes with mortar.

My bet is they WILL be on 16 inch centers. Assuming they will not be
on the standard 16 inch centers gives you no possible way to sensibly
determine where they will be - other than looking for the stud at the
48" mark from a known stud - which WILL find the (one) stud if on 12,
16, or 24 inch centers.

Now, is this stone veneer over a sheathed wall? Drywall, ten-test,
plywood, etc? If so, the sheathing needs to be fastened to the studs
with something - a nail or screw being the most common method (yes,
some idiot could have used twine, tie-raps, or glue - but let's not go
there, ok?). Perhaps a metal detector could find the fastener. A
compass will sometimes deflect towards the nail, but you still need to
know pretty well where to expect the nail - and "A" nail is a whole
lot harder to find than a full hight stud.

[The Daring Dufas]

I'd been looking at some of the professional deep scanners which are
very expensive and used mostly for finding rebar in concrete but I'm
not sure one would detect a stud behind a stone facade. Then I thought
surely the scanners would also detect fiberglass rebar too so one may
work to find a wall stud behind stone. Perhaps a rental company in the
area might have such a scanner to rent out to contractors whom I'm sure
come across the same problem the OP has on a regular basis. ^_^

TDD

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:17:06 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:52:43 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
><teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>>nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>>
>>...snip...
>>
>>>
>>> Derby Dad: I'm just trying to do my best to help this guy out. If you
>>> were to do the same, you'd spend less time arguing with me and more time
>>> helping.
>>>
>>
>>I am helping. By pointing out that the OP doesn't actually know that the
>>studs are 16" OC I am preventing him from going on a wild goose chase.
>
>If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
>BY FAR the most common stud spacing in North American construction is,
>has been for a long time, and will continue to be for a long time, 16
>inches on center. SO - in order to find the studs the OP is looking
>for, assuming 16 inch centers MAKES SENSE.

Tat is just NOT true. For decades 2x6s on 24"OC was the code. It
still may be in places. Depending on the age and location I would
*expect* this construction standard. I would certainly do some
measurements to verify (distance between outlets, for instance).

>It is the most common
>layout - so what he should try first. Find a stud not covered by
>stone, and measure 16, 32, or 48 inches from the center of that stud,
>drill a hole through the mortar joint, and see if you found a stud. If
>you did not, drill at a 45 degree angle to the left or the right fron
>the same entry point and see if you find a stud. If not, start
>drilling more small holes every 2 or so inches until you find one -
>and patch the holes with mortar.

I wouldn't drill test holes in any masonry. It's impossible to match
the color of a patch. It's easier to drill into sheetrock just above
the stone (unless it goes to the ceiling, obviously) to discover
studs. Sheetrock is trivial to patch.

>My bet is they WILL be on 16 inch centers. Assuming they will not be
>on the standard 16 inch centers gives you no possible way to sensibly
>determine where they will be - other than looking for the stud at the
>48" mark from a known stud - which WILL find the (one) stud if on 12,
>16, or 24 inch centers.

The problem is the ones between those. Again, it may be possible to
determine the stud center distance by measuring outlet distances.

>Now, is this stone veneer over a sheathed wall? Drywall, ten-test,
>plywood, etc? If so, the sheathing needs to be fastened to the studs
>with something - a nail or screw being the most common method (yes,
>some idiot could have used twine, tie-raps, or glue - but let's not go
>there, ok?). Perhaps a metal detector could find the fastener. A
>compass will sometimes deflect towards the nail, but you still need to
>know pretty well where to expect the nail - and "A" nail is a whole
>lot harder to find than a full hight stud.

It may be difficult to find the fasteners through the stone.

[DerbyDad03]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:52:43 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>> nestork <nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...snip...
>>
>>>
>>> Derby Dad: I'm just trying to do my best to help this guy out. If you
>>> were to do the same, you'd spend less time arguing with me and more time
>>> helping.
>>>
>>
>> I am helping. By pointing out that the OP doesn't actually know that the
>> studs are 16" OC I am preventing him from going on a wild goose chase.
>
> If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
> BY FAR the most common stud spacing in North American construction is,
> has been for a long time, and will continue to be for a long time, 16
> inches on center. SO - in order to find the studs the OP is looking
> for, assuming 16 inch centers MAKES SENSE.

Thank you for making my point for me. I appreciate the support.

Figure it out...

[Oren]

Give me 3.5" finish nail. . Oh, need a hammer too.

...

nestrork, find the wall studs from the attic. Header plate - single
or double.

For the record - not all fireplaces are on an outside wall.

[Silverfox]

replying to Oscar, Silverfox wrote:

> Oscar wrote:
>
> I'm trying to mount a 50lbs cedar mantle over my fire place. Can't seem to
find
> a wood stud behind the wall because my fire place has a stone facade. Any
> recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.

I am doing exactly the same as you are and am having the same problem
finding a stud. I agree 16" oc is normal however my stud finder did find
one stud, with some reluctance, and it was 17-1/2" from the corner stud.
No idea why. Drilling holes through the mortar will work and you don't
have to worry about patching, since I would assume you would drill in the
location where the mantle will be anyway - which will of course cover the
holes.




--

[Oren]

On Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:45:01 +0000, Silverfox
<caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote:

>> recommendations will be greatly appreciate it.
>
>
>
>I am doing exactly the same as you are and am having the same problem
>finding a stud. I agree 16" oc is normal however my stud finder did find
>one stud, with some reluctance, and it was 17-1/2" from the corner stud.
>No idea why. Drilling holes through the mortar will work and you don't
>have to worry about patching, since I would assume you would drill in the
>location where the mantle will be anyway - which will of course cover the
>holes.

Are there metal studs and / or a combination of wood and metal in the
construction? I've experienced that situation in my home.

A stud finder that finds wood, metal, and electrical wiring is a good
tool to use. YMMV

[danny]

replying to Silverfox, danny wrote:
Im doing something similar but its a log mantle, if I drill into the mortar
and put in lag shields will that hold it, it weighs about 100lbs

--
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