OT: Insurrection, what insurrection? That was just a riot...

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trader_4

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Jan 14, 2022, 9:07:17 AM (6 days ago) Jan 14
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So say the crazy Republicans that continue to deny reality and
instead worship at the alter of Trump. One of the claims has been
that no one has been charged with organizing Jan 6, there have been
no insurrection type charges. Well, the Oath Keeper leader and
ten others have now been charged with SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY.
They have been charged with organizing the Jan 6 attack on the
Capitol to stop the votes from being certified and were planning more
violence. But I'm sure the usual deniers will try to BS their way around
that too.

Marilyn Manson

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Jan 14, 2022, 11:43:52 AM (6 days ago) Jan 14
to
Nothing to see here, just a bunch of tourists visiting Washington and
the surrounding area, taking in the sights.

'Prosecutors said that beginning only days after the 2020 election,
Mr. Rhodes oversaw a seditious plot “to oppose the lawful transfer
of presidential power by force.” Some members of the Oath Keepers
under his command broke into the Capitol in a military-style formation
on Jan. 6 and went in search of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the indictment
said. Others, it said, were stationed in a hotel in Alexandria, Va., as an
armed “quick reaction force,” ready to rush into Washington if needed.

In addition to Mr. Rhodes, prosecutors charged Edward Vallejo, 63, of
Phoenix, for the first time in connection with Jan. 6. The nine other
militia members named in the indictment had all previously been
charged, although not with sedition. Mr. Vallejo was part of the
quick reaction force teams that the militia had deployed, which
were equipped with firearms and other tactical equipment in case
Mr. Rhodes called upon them to support the plot, prosecutors said.
The teams included Oath Keepers from North Carolina, Florida and
Arizona.'

trader_4

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:25:38 PM (6 days ago) Jan 14
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And Rhodes is not just some uneducated hill billy hick that didn;t know
what he was doing either. He's a Yale Law graduate. But I suppose
we should have done what Fretwell says should be done in situations
like this. Just focus on those arrested doing the break-in and forget
about all the rest..... Note that just like in Watergate, it's been over a year
and the indictments just keep coming.

Ed Pawlowski

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Jan 14, 2022, 12:43:08 PM (6 days ago) Jan 14
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On 1/14/2022 12:25 PM, trader_4 wrote:

>>
>> 'Prosecutors said that beginning only days after the 2020 election,
>> Mr. Rhodes oversaw a seditious plot “to oppose the lawful transfer
>> of presidential power by force.” Some members of the Oath Keepers
>> under his command broke into the Capitol in a military-style formation
>> on Jan. 6 and went in search of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the indictment
>> said. Others, it said, were stationed in a hotel in Alexandria, Va., as an
>> armed “quick reaction force,” ready to rush into Washington if needed.
>>
>> In addition to Mr. Rhodes, prosecutors charged Edward Vallejo, 63, of
>> Phoenix, for the first time in connection with Jan. 6. The nine other
>> militia members named in the indictment had all previously been
>> charged, although not with sedition. Mr. Vallejo was part of the
>> quick reaction force teams that the militia had deployed, which
>> were equipped with firearms and other tactical equipment in case
>> Mr. Rhodes called upon them to support the plot, prosecutors said.
>> The teams included Oath Keepers from North Carolina, Florida and
>> Arizona.'
>
> And Rhodes is not just some uneducated hill billy hick that didn;t know
> what he was doing either. He's a Yale Law graduate. But I suppose
> we should have done what Fretwell says should be done in situations
> like this. Just focus on those arrested doing the break-in and forget
> about all the rest..... Note that just like in Watergate, it's been over a year
> and the indictments just keep coming.

You can be sure this guy was in their sights for a long time and they
wanted to build a good case. Will be interesting to see how this plays
out and what connections there may be.

trader_4

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Jan 14, 2022, 1:28:36 PM (5 days ago) Jan 14
to
News said they were using encrypted apps to communicate, so it may
be difficult to find out what was going on. But if some are facing serious
federal prison time, offered a deal if they cooperate, that could an avenue.

Bob F

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Jan 14, 2022, 2:14:33 PM (5 days ago) Jan 14
to
On 1/14/2022 8:43 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:07:17 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> So say the crazy Republicans that continue to deny reality and
>> instead worship at the alter of Trump. One of the claims has been
>> that no one has been charged with organizing Jan 6, there have been
>> no insurrection type charges. Well, the Oath Keeper leader and
>> ten others have now been charged with SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY.
>> They have been charged with organizing the Jan 6 attack on the
>> Capitol to stop the votes from being certified and were planning more
>> violence. But I'm sure the usual deniers will try to BS their way around
>> that too.
>
> Nothing to see here, just a bunch of tourists visiting Washington and
> the surrounding area, taking in the sights.

Just friendly tourrorists.

And of course, the feds have all kinds of evidence proving that those
tourrorists were intending, through violence, to overthrow the legally
elected president of the USA.

trader_4

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Jan 14, 2022, 5:01:59 PM (5 days ago) Jan 14
to
Rhodes, the leader of the Oath Keepers didn't enter the Capitol, he stayed outside
and communicated with his team via phone, figuring he would get away with
it, let his minions do the criminal dirty work. The leader of the United States
did similar. Trump inflamed his supporters with two months of stolen election lies,
called them to DC on the 6th, inflamed them some more, "you have to fight like
hell", pointed them to the Capitol and told them he was going to go with them.
Then he went back to the safety of the WH and watched what he created play
out on TV.

gfre...@aol.com

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:33:21 PM (5 days ago) Jan 14
to
Don't you think if it was a real insurrection, they would have come
armed and I am not talking about bear spray and pointy flag poles.

The conspiracy charges are scary but the fact is they didn't do it,
they just talked about it. It is still enough for a conviction for
some of them because of the nebulous nature of the conspiracy laws. I
have no problem with snuffing out some of that insanity before someone
actually does mount an armed assault on the government.
They threw such a wide net I suspect they are really looking for
cooperation among some low level defendants to build a better case
against the leadership. It will be interesting watching this play out.
One of the guys charged is a local boy so we are getting a play by
play on his case. His lawyer is citing the law and pointing out he
never committed an overt act in continuance of the conspiracy so we
will see. My guess is he takes a plea or gets a walk for pointing the
finger up.
No, I doubt he has the goods on Trump ... sorry.
Some senior Oath Keepers are going to be wearing khaki jump suits for
a while tho.


gfre...@aol.com

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:39:31 PM (5 days ago) Jan 14
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:28:33 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:


>
>News said they were using encrypted apps to communicate, so it may
>be difficult to find out what was going on.

It will be interesting to see just how secure that PGP encryption
really is. I have no doubt NSA can read it right off but will the
government admit it?
My guess is they will just use that info to target the computers of
the conspirators and "get lucky" finding the unencrypted messages they
already have with a warrant, making it all legal.
It is sort of like how the narcs can use illegal surveillance to "get
lucky" on a car stop.

Marilyn Manson

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Jan 15, 2022, 8:50:30 AM (5 days ago) Jan 15
to
Let's be fair here. Rhodes claims that his minions went "off mission" and that he
was "frustrated" with that.

' In an interview with The New York Times last summer, Mr. Rhodes expressed
frustration that several members of his group had “gone off mission” by entering
the Capitol on Jan. 6, quickly adding, “There were zero instructions from me or
leadership to do so.” '

Until proof can be found that he actually instructed his followers to storm the
Capitol, there's only so far they can go with certain charges. Perhaps some of
the minions will rat the leadership out or perhaps there were undercover operatives
involved. We shall see.

trader_4

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Jan 16, 2022, 9:16:34 AM (4 days ago) Jan 16
to
On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:33:21 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:07:12 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >So say the crazy Republicans that continue to deny reality and
> >instead worship at the alter of Trump. One of the claims has been
> >that no one has been charged with organizing Jan 6, there have been
> >no insurrection type charges. Well, the Oath Keeper leader and
> >ten others have now been charged with SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY.
> >They have been charged with organizing the Jan 6 attack on the
> >Capitol to stop the votes from being certified and were planning more
> >violence. But I'm sure the usual deniers will try to BS their way around
> >that too.
> Don't you think if it was a real insurrection, they would have come
> armed and I am not talking about bear spray and pointy flag poles.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt. An insurrection may facilitate or bring about a revolution, which is a radical change in the form of government or political system of a state, and it may be initiated or provoked by an act of sedition, which is an incitement to revolt or rebellion.

In the United States, insurrection against the authority of the federal government is a crime under 18 U.S. Code §2383, which provides that:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.



>
> The conspiracy charges are scary but the fact is they didn't do it,
> they just talked about it.

ROFL. That's a good one. They did a lot more than just talk about it.
We have the videos from Jan 6, perhaps you haven't seen them.



It is still enough for a conviction for
> some of them because of the nebulous nature of the conspiracy laws.

More BS.


I
> have no problem with snuffing out some of that insanity before someone
> actually does mount an armed assault on the government.
> They threw such a wide net I suspect they are really looking for
> cooperation among some low level defendants to build a better case
> against the leadership.

Gee, you really think so?


>It will be interesting watching this play out.

It is playing out, but you have the totally wrong take on what
is playing out.

> One of the guys charged is a local boy so we are getting a play by
> play on his case. His lawyer is citing the law and pointing out he
> never committed an overt act in continuance of the conspiracy so we
> will see. My guess is he takes a plea or gets a walk for pointing the
> finger up.
> No, I doubt he has the goods on Trump ... sorry.
> Some senior Oath Keepers are going to be wearing khaki jump suits for
> a while tho.

How's that, if it wasn't a seditious conspiracy, just some talk?

trader_4

unread,
Jan 16, 2022, 9:26:19 AM (4 days ago) Jan 16
to
It sure looks to be like DOJ has the proof you're asking for.


"The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. Beginning in late December 2020, via encrypted and private communications applications, Rhodes and various co-conspirators coordinated and planned to travel to Washington, D.C., on or around Jan. 6, 2021, the date of the certification of the electoral college vote, the indictment alleges. Rhodes and several co-conspirators made plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation. The co-conspirators then traveled across the country to the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area in early January 2021.

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

On Jan. 6, 2021, a large crowd began to gather outside the Capitol perimeter as the Joint Session of Congress got under way at 1 p.m. Crowd members eventually forced their way through, up and over U.S. Capitol Police barricades and advanced to the building’s exterior façade. Shortly after 2 p.m., crowd members forced entry into the Capitol by breaking windows, ramming open doors, and assaulting Capitol police and other law enforcement officers. At about this time, according to the indictment, Rhodes entered the restricted area of the Capitol grounds and directed his followers to meet him at the Capitol.

At approximately 2:30 p.m., as detailed in the indictment, Hackett, Harrelson, Meggs, Moerschel and Watkins, and other Oath Keepers and affiliates – many wearing paramilitary clothing and patches with the Oath Keepers name, logo, and insignia – marched in a “stack” formation up the east steps of the Capitol, joined a mob, and made their way into the Capitol. Later, another group of Oath Keepers and associates, including James, Minuta, and Ulrich, formed a second “stack” and breached the Capitol grounds, marching from the west side to the east side of the Capitol building and up the east stairs and into the building.

While certain Oath Keepers members and affiliates breached the Capitol grounds and building, others remained stationed just outside of the city in quick reaction force (QRF) teams. According to the indictment, the QRF teams were prepared to rapidly transport firearms and other weapons into Washington, D.C., in support of operations aimed at using force to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power. The indictment alleges that the teams were coordinated, in part, by Caldwell and Vallejo."



Rhodes surely knew that his bunch showed up dressed in combat type
outfits, wearing helmets, vests, goggles, not what you would wear to a
peaceful protest outside the Capitol. He was there, did he try to stop
them? We have video of maybe a dozen
of them storming single file into the Capitol. Yes, he still has to be convicted,
but I've seen plenty to strongly suggest that's coming.

micky

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Jan 16, 2022, 10:26:01 PM (3 days ago) Jan 16
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Jan 2022 06:16:31 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:33:21 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:07:12 -0800 (PST), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> >So say the crazy Republicans that continue to deny reality and
>> >instead worship at the alter of Trump. One of the claims has been
>> >that no one has been charged with organizing Jan 6, there have been
>> >no insurrection type charges. Well, the Oath Keeper leader and
>> >ten others have now been charged with SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY.
>> >They have been charged with organizing the Jan 6 attack on the
>> >Capitol to stop the votes from being certified and were planning more
>> >violence. But I'm sure the usual deniers will try to BS their way around
>> >that too.
>> Don't you think if it was a real insurrection, they would have come
>> armed and I am not talking about bear spray and pointy flag poles.

When Morocco siezed much of Spanish Sahara in, I think, 1975, they
didn't use weapons. They lined up 100,000 Moroccans and on cue, they
all walked into Spanish Sahara.

What do you think the plan to steal the ballots and replace them with
stumpie ballots repreesnted, if not an attempt to overthrow the elected
government?

If the rioters had come with guns they would have lost the support even
of many of the dumbbells who has supported them.
>
>From Encyclopedia Britannica:
>
>insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt. An insurrection may facilitate or bring about a revolution, which is a radical change in the form of government or political system of a state, and it may be initiated or provoked by an act of sedition, which is an incitement to revolt or rebellion.
>
>In the United States, insurrection against the authority of the federal government is a crime under 18 U.S. Code §2383, which provides that:
>
>Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
>
>
>
>>
>> The conspiracy charges are scary but the fact is they didn't do it,
>> they just talked about it.

That's what conspiracy is, talking about it with the intention to do it,
and any one affirmative act in furtherance of the plan. And they had
loads of such acts, even before jan 6, and loads more that day.

>ROFL. That's a good one. They did a lot more than just talk about it.
>We have the videos from Jan 6, perhaps you haven't seen them.
>
>
>
>It is still enough for a conviction for
>> some of them because of the nebulous nature of the conspiracy laws.
>
>More BS.

Indeed.

>
>I
>> have no problem with snuffing out some of that insanity before someone
>> actually does mount an armed assault on the government.
>> They threw such a wide net I suspect they are really looking for
>> cooperation among some low level defendants to build a better case
>> against the leadership.
>
>Gee, you really think so?
>
>
>>It will be interesting watching this play out.
>
>It is playing out, but you have the totally wrong take on what
>is playing out.
>
>> One of the guys charged is a local boy so we are getting a play by
>> play on his case. His lawyer is citing the law and pointing out he
>> never committed an overt act in continuance of the conspiracy so we
>> will see. My guess is he takes a plea or gets a walk for pointing the
>> finger up.
>> No, I doubt he has the goods on Trump ... sorry.
>> Some senior Oath Keepers are going to be wearing khaki jump suits for
>> a while tho.
>
>How's that, if it wasn't a seditious conspiracy, just some talk?

!!!
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