mold forms on cords, knobs, and tool handles

[micky]

My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
mold. And the rest never get mold.

I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
be clean.

Thanks.

[Vinny From NYC]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote in <2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com> Re mold forms on
cords, knobs, and tool handles:

>I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
>wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
>or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
>be clean.

Have the house treated for mold. Mold is deadly. Do it for the
children.

[Clark Kent]

Have you had your ducts cleaned lately?

[mike]

http://dpcalc.org/

[N_Cook]

micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com...

So what are your lungs like?
Wasn't the biblical plague of deaths of the first-born sons put down to the
premium food reserved for the first-born sons, stored in the basement, being
contaminated with ergot or some-such mold

[Doug]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

wrote:

Hope you wear some kind of protection when you're in your basement.
This doesn't sound good to me over time for your lungs, etc... .

Probably need more information about the basement such as what's done
there, does this occur only in one area or all over, humidity level,
etc... . You said the rest of the house is not clean so I wonder if
there is a connection to the basement?

[William Sommerwerck]

> I wash them in the dishwasher and they come out clean,

> but once in the basement again, after a few months,

> you notice that the same ones have mold. And the rest
> never get mold.

I'm wondering whether it's plasticizer migrating to the surface.

You might try putting the "susceptible" items in plastic bags and sealing them
tightly. I wouldn't be surprised if the "mold" continues to form.

[Ralph Mowery]

"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com...

The plastic in some tool handles will break down over a period of time. It
is just bad quality plastic. Even some other wise good tools have this
problem.
If it only some tools and always the same ones, you just have to replace the
tools when the handles fall off.

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:09:51 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
>>floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
>>and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>>them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>>
>>I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
>>basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
>>mold. And the rest never get mold.
>>
>>I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
>>wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
>>or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
>>be clean.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
>Hope you wear some kind of protection when you're in your basement.
>This doesn't sound good to me over time for your lungs, etc... .
>
>Probably need more information about the basement such as what's done
>there,

Welll, sometimes I just watch TV, sometimes I make a fire in the
fireplace, most of the time I work on electric projects in the
"family" room and wood or metal projects in the laundry room, fright
next to it.

>does this occur only in one area or all over,

I think it's all over the basement, but I guess there are only 2 or 3
areas where those three things are kept. There is a dresser at the
far side of the room, the back end of the house. I keep a lot of
knobs in one of the drawers -- knobs that go back to the 1930's but
mostly I think it's those from the 50's and 60's that get moldy -- and
4 or 5% get "moldy". I put it in quotes this time because I've been
assuming it's mold. It's some sort of dust like stuff, that I can
wipe off with my fingers, but I use the dishwasher because it gets
into the cracks and crevices. .

There is t he pair of little dressers that hold my work bench, in the
middle of the house, near the base of the stairs. That has tools in
one of the drawers and in the In-basket at the far end, plus some
bananan plug jumper wires that get moldy. Thiese 8" jumpers were two
of the few cords that got moldy. Mostly it's knobs and tools. .
(Tools with yellow plastic handles are some of the moldy handles, but
not every yellow plastic handle.)

And about 18 months ago I set up the new computer in the basement so I
could use it to fix the old computer (which needed a new cpu.). So I
do that stuff down here too.

> humidity level,

I think the humidity is about 30% in the summer. Lower now. (I"ll
get a meter and measure it , sicne you ask) But I'll say this. WRT
water spilled on the laundry room floor, some of it soaks into the
cement quickly and the rest evaportates within 12 to 24 hours (even
when there is a lot of water from the laundry sink over flowing, or
the hose to the washing machine springing a leak) and the cement
itself dries out in less than 12 hours. I used to make a point of
taking the laudry upstairs as soon as it was done, but one time I
forgot and since then I've noticed that it can sit in the washing
machine wet, for days, without getting moldy or smellilng bad, and can
alos sit in the dryer only partly dried for days and it smells just
the way freshly dried laundry should smell.

20 years ago after one of the bigger leaks, some mold grew on a
sheetrocked wall, but I killed it with bleach and then painted it
over, and that was the end of that.

>etc... . You said the rest of the house is not clean so I wonder if
>there is a connection to the basement?

I was mostly making a joke. The rest of the house isn't that dirty,
and anyhow, it was clean for 15 or 20 years and I still had the moldy
cords, tools, and knobs in the basement. Two or three times I've
gathered them together and washed them in the washing machine. I
don't pay close attention, but they all turn moldy again, in less than
a year, probably less than 3 months.

I'm not worried about my health. Some mold is bad for all of the
people some of the time, and some for some of the people all of the
time , and some doesn't bother some people any of the time, and
whatever I've got here has never bothered me in the 30 years I've
lived here. And I'm the only one living here now. I'm just
getting tired of having moldy things.

[micky]

So you mean clean them first and then do this? OKay, I'll try it.
It will take a few days at least to start the test and up to a month
or three to wait for resutls, but I'll get back to you. At least I
sincerely plan to.

Thanks to both of you and all of you.

[willshak]

What kind of handles do these tools have? Steel, plastic, rubber, wood?
You say these things have a 'dust like' layer. Could it be brushed off,
or has to be washed off in a dishwasher?
I know many of my tool handles get a gray or dark covering after a
while, but I attribute it to an accumulation of dead skin cells from my
hands.
This could also be attributed to the handling of the TV knobs.
I don't know about the 'mold' on the cords.
All my tools are in an attached garage.
I doubt whether this is mold if there is no other mold in the basement.


--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

[Doug]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:01:25 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

I used to think like you ... that my body was pretty strong (and it
was) but lately I'm experiencing things that never used to be so I
think age is the culprit. My point is that even if your body was
strong against the mold before, it may change with your age now. And
it may be too late after you begin to notice it. Sorry if I seem
overly concerned but I've had to deal with Cancer patients going to
the doctor, etc... .

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:24:01 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>

No, I appreciate your concern. If you were my mother, I'd be annoyed,
but she never knew when to stop.

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:11:54 -0500, willshak <will...@00hvc.rr.com>
wrote:

Good questions. I'll look at all the stuff again and get back to you.
Within 24 hours I hope.

Micky.

[tuinkabouter]

Try to store it in a plastic bag together with a package desiccant
(Silica gel).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
>and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real mold to
grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
dust. Hit is with some heat, and watch it melt. I get this plastic
"mold" on most of my cheap plastic handle tools. The plastic breaks
down along the surface and sorta crumbles. It's probably caused by
exposure to something in the air, which condenses onto the surface
when wet. Washing the stuff off with any kind of kitchen cleaner
works, for a while.

I've tried a few things to prevent its return. Dipping or spraying
with acrylic coating (clear Krylon) seems to work best. I have one
old plastic handle nut wrench, that I coated only half with acrylic
spray. I can see tiny pits starting on the uncoated side, but the
coated side looks like new. Note that you have to really clean the
plastic with sandpaper and solvent before spraying or it will flake
off. Also, don't worry about the dull finish after sandpapering, as
the clear acrylic will make it shine again. Also, the acrylic
sometimes feels kinda "sticky". I'm not sure what causes that.

Unfortunately, I haven't had any luck preserving rubber and flexible
handles that have the same problem. The acrylic coating just cracks
and falls off. Even worse, I haven't found a fix for the rubberized
paint coating on plastic, that eventually turns to a sticky gooey tar
mess.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[chaniarts]

On 2/27/2013 10:29 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
>> However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
>> and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>> them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>
> It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
> doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real mold to
> grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
> dust. Hit is with some heat, and watch it melt. I get this plastic
> "mold" on most of my cheap plastic handle tools. The plastic breaks
> down along the surface and sorta crumbles. It's probably caused by
> exposure to something in the air, which condenses onto the surface
> when wet. Washing the stuff off with any kind of kitchen cleaner
> works, for a while.

the usual culprits are ozone or uv rays.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

On Feb 27, 11:29 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com>

> Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 831-336-2558 FREE

Your explanation makes more semse than "mold". The OP did not say
what type of handles or tools were/were not affected, or if the tools
were in a dark airless corner or out in plain sight, etc, so we really
need more information.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:31:08 -0700, chaniarts
<chan...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

>the usual culprits are ozone or uv rays.

You can eliminate UV from the guess list. I've had it happen in a
closed toolbox, where no light enters except perhaps twice a year.
It's also happening in my steel drawer tool boxes, where again little
light enters. Ozone is a possibility, but I don't have any obvious
sources for excessive ozone in the shop (Hi-V, electrostatic
precipitators, negative ion generators, laser printers, etc). However,
I do store aromatic chemicals nearby, which may be the problem.

Also, an important clue is that I can have a drawer full of plastic
handle hex spintite wrenches, and only some of them will have a "mold"
problem. This implies that the culprit is resident mostly in the
plastic and not the environment.

Opinions seem to vary...

Mold growth on plastic:
<http://www.ehow.com/info_8526040_fast-mold-grow-plastic.html>

Can mold grow on plastic and, if so, is there a way to clean it? - See
more at:
<http://moldblogger.com/can-mold-grow-on-plastic-and-if-so-is-there-a-way-to-clean-it/>

How to Remove Mold From Plastic:
<http://www.ehow.com/how_7939800_remove-mold-plastic.html>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:40:57 -0000, "N_Cook" <div...@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

>Wasn't the biblical plague of deaths of the first-born sons put down to the
>premium food reserved for the first-born sons, stored in the basement, being
>contaminated with ergot or some-such mold

That's one theory, as made popular by a TV documentary.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus_Decoded>
The problem is that ergot can cause death in sufficient quantities,
but more commonly causes hallucinations, temporary insanity,
convulsions, and various symptoms that look like madness.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism>
None of those symptoms were mentioned in the Old Testament. If it
were a massive overdose of ergot poisoning on the surface of the food
storage pot, there would be enough at lower levels to create mass
insanity. Ergot is also very easily visible in unmilled grain, and
would have been recognized. Also, the Nile valley is a large area,
with diverse microclimates. Chances of a country wide epidemic of
ergot poisoning is unlikely.



Drivel: Short lesson in critical thinking... If you read something
that looks like cause and effect, try to visualize what else the cause
might have produced. In this case, what would lesser concentrations
of ergot poisoning produce. There are plenty of theories that will
fall apart after failing that test including government solutions and
creative economics.

[Red]

On Feb 27, 9:01 am, micky <NONONOmis...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> I think it's all over the basement, but I  guess there are only 2 or 3
> areas where those three things are kept.  There is a dresser at the
> far side of the room, the back end of the house.   I keep a lot of
> knobs in one of the drawers -- knobs that go back to the 1930's but
> mostly I think it's those from the 50's and 60's that get moldy -- and
> 4 or 5% get "moldy".

I also have a parts drawer with an assortment of old knobs and I
recently had the same experience you have. Out of an assortment of
about 25 there were 6 that had an off white coating similar to mold.
The coated knobs were identical and appeared to come off the same
piece of old test equipment. The rest of the knobs were perfectly
normal. Thinking they were moldy I soaked them overnight in a clorox
solution and it didn't phase them. So it definitely wasn't mold. But
with soapy water and a old toothbrush they cleaned easily so I
determined it was an old plastic compound reaction.

Contrary to what some are saying I don't think you have a health
problem in your dry basement.

Some Craftsman tools with plastic handles left in a car trunk or hot
toolbox for a long time often get real stinky. That again is the type
plastic they use and giving them a soapy bath usually helps a lot.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:41:23 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Also, an important clue is that I can have a drawer full of plastic
>handle hex spintite wrenches, and only some of them will have a "mold"
>problem. This implies that the culprit is resident mostly in the
>plastic and not the environment.

Maybe a photo will help:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>
This is a drawer from my steel Craftsman toolbox that I don't use very
often. The white stuff is the alleged "mold". Note that it's on two
of the handles, but not the others. The larger tools are made by
Vaco. The blue and the yellow handles are covered with the stuff.
However, the other handles, from the same manufacturer, are pitted,
but untouched. That's because they previously were cleaned and coated
with a very thin layer of Krylon clear acrylic. I'm not sure why the
blue and yellow handles are affected. I probably just forgot to coat
them (about 18 months ago). There is no rust anywhere inside the
toolbox on any of the other tools, so it's not moisture accumulation
or consensation.

[DA]

responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/mold-forms-on-cords-knobs-and-tool-handles-738618-.htm
DA wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
> doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real
> mold to
> grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
> dust.

*Plastic* dust that grows? Sounds like a new life form! :) The OP did not say what exactly is he doing in the workshop but I am pretty sure if it was something that creates a lot of dust of any kind, he'd mentioned it.

Perhaps it's technically not mold per se (not fungal) but it's still biological - you've touched the handles, you've left some residue behind (sweat, skin flakes), bacteria are thankful for it, eat it and multiply. Still the same type of concern as with mold - something grows in your basement that you don't want. I would think some air movement and dryer air, just like with mold, would help and perhaps introduction of UV light in there wouldn't hurt either. Like those disinfecting lights in hospitals.

Also, I would think that just wiping the handles with alcohol would do pretty much the same thing as spray-painting Krylon on them - it will kill most of the bacteria that's on in now (though not all of course) and will simply delay its growth until some later point in the future when bacteria will inevitably catch up if they still have something to feed on.

--

/\_/\
((@v@)) NIGHT
():::() OWL
VV-VV

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:44:02 +0000, DA
<caedfaa9ed1216d60...@example.com> wrote:

>responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/mold-forms-on-cords-knobs-and-tool-handles-738618-.htm
>DA wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
>> doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real
>> mold to
>> grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
>> dust.

>*Plastic* dust that grows?

Read what I scribbled again. The alleged mold does NOT form colonies
and does not grow.

>Sounds like a new life form! :)

Rumor has it that there is intelligent life on this planet. I have
yet to find any. Perhaps plastic life is a good start.

>The OP did not say what exactly is he doing in the workshop but I
>am pretty sure if it was something that creates a lot of dust of
>any kind, he'd mentioned it.

Mine shop has very little dust, is quite dry, and still manages to
create plastic life.

>Perhaps it's technically not mold per se (not fungal) but it's still biological
>- you've touched the handles, you've left some residue behind (sweat, skin
>flakes), bacteria are thankful for it, eat it and multiply. Still the same
>type of concern as with mold - something grows in your basement that you
>don't want. I would think some air movement and dryer air, just like with
>mold, would help and perhaps introduction of UV light in there wouldn't
>hurt either. Like those disinfecting lights in hospitals.

I didn't try the UV, but I originally tried to kill the "mold" with
X-14 cleaner and Chlorox bleach. Neither would touch it.

>Also, I would think that just wiping the handles with alcohol would do
>pretty much the same thing as spray-painting Krylon on them - it will
>kill most of the bacteria that's on in now (though not all of course)
>and will simply delay its growth until some later point in the future
>when bacteria will inevitably catch up if they still have something
>to feed on.

I tried alcohol, which sorta cleaned off the handle. However, it was
mostly aggressive scrubbing, not the alcohol that did the cleaning. I
got better results with paint thinner and soapy water. Even so, I
still had to scrub hard. The last time I ran into this stuff, I just
used sandpaper, which removed everything almost instantly, deglossed
the surface, and left a few pits. I probably could have returned the
gloss with a hot air gun or propane torch, but decided to use clear
Krylon instead. Next time, I'll try the torch.

[DA]

I'm sorry to say that but fossil record shows pretty convincingly that in the epic battle of Jeff vs. bacteria, Jeff is not going to be a winner. Not in the long run anyway :) I think taking a torch to your tools might damage perfectly good tools and only slightly delay the bacterial world domination.

I'm wondering what dumping the tools into a tank with infusoria culture might do to the growth. At the very least should make for a great show with awesome battle sequences, provided by you have a strong enough microscope :)

Unless the handles become slippery (and that would definitely be mold), I think I would just live with slightly less shiny tools and perhaps wipe the handles with alcohol every once in a while when it bothers me too much.

[Doug]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:40:20 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

My adult daughters say the same about me :-(

[Bill Rotham]

micky wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500:

micky wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500:
> and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
> them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

Does it look like this?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg

Or this?
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297574/img/12297574.jpg

The former I always attributed to some kind of persistent "moldy"
like white paste (which I've long ago painstakingly scraped off
handle that tool you see in the picture so that only remnants remain)

The other is on my pool pump - which - you can imagine - isn't
mold but a white chemical covering (calcium carbonate?).

So, the first question, is whether it's a mold or a chemical?
Note: I don't know the answer for either of my tools above.

[Brian Berg]

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:07:44 -0800, Red wrote:

> about 25 there were 6 that had an off white coating similar to mold.
> The coated knobs were identical and appeared to come off the same
> piece of old test equipment. The rest of the knobs were perfectly
> normal. Thinking they were moldy I soaked them overnight in a clorox
> solution and it didn't phase them. So it definitely wasn't mold. But
> with soapy water and a old toothbrush they cleaned easily so I
> determined it was an old plastic compound reaction.

That's exactly my experience.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg

The plastic on the handles was coated with a thin white layer
which I could scrape off with a sharp tool (the results in
that picture are of a screwdriver scraped years ago, but some
of the persistent white stuff is still on the handle, in spots).

I don't know WHAT it is!

Like you experienced, it wouldn't 'wash' off and chlorine bleach
didn't faze it (of course, if it 'is' mold, it would be dead but
still there if bleach did kill it, since it's white).

I don't know if it's a "mold" or a "chemical".
It does seem to 'infect' other tools - but both a mold and a chemical
'can' do that (think hydrochloric acid).

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:14:07 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Maybe a photo will help:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>

That's EXACTLY what this screwdriver USED to look like!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg

So, whatever it is, it's common.

Again, I don't know if it is a mold or a chemical.
It does NOT happen to all tools of the same type.

It just happens to select tools which were stored in a
different environment (I think my affected screwdrivers
were used when I worked at a hospital on oxygen respirators).

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:40:54 -0800, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Your explanation makes more semse than "mold". The OP did not say
> what type of handles or tools were/were not affected, or if the tools
> were in a dark airless corner or out in plain sight, etc, so we really
> need more information.

Wow. The real Jeff Liebermann (two n's and i-before-e) on alt.home.repair.

I'm impressed. You're the expert in the SC mountains for wireless radio.
Glad to have you here.

I am VERY FAMILIAR with this persistent "white stuff".
I have no idea WHAT it is - but I have it too.

It's either a chemical coating or it's a mold-like growth.
It does seem to be hugely persistent, in that if you don't scrape it
away, it will last (seemingly unchanged) forever.

I remember segregating my white-coated tools a while ago, but I no
longer do that once I manually scraped them (mostly) clean.

I seem to remember that the white stuff "infected" other tools, but,
it's no longer doing that (after twenty years). But, that white stuff
you see in this photo is easily twenty years old!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg

It had coated that screwdriver handle with a white persistent but
powdery on the outside surface coating just like the picture the OP
posted over here:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg

I considered throwing the screwdrivers away, but, my sense of
tool preservation had me soak that screwdriver maybe 15 years ago
in all sorts of horrid solvents (acetone, bleach, acid, etc.) in
my attempts to clean it off.

If anyone actually KNOWS what this white stuff is, I'd be curious!

[Dave Platt]

In article <glisi81ku2lr81s8g...@4ax.com>,

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

>>Also, an important clue is that I can have a drawer full of plastic
>>handle hex spintite wrenches, and only some of them will have a "mold"
>>problem. This implies that the culprit is resident mostly in the
>>plastic and not the environment.
>
>Maybe a photo will help:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>
>This is a drawer from my steel Craftsman toolbox that I don't use very
>often. The white stuff is the alleged "mold". Note that it's on two
>of the handles, but not the others. The larger tools are made by
>Vaco. The blue and the yellow handles are covered with the stuff.
>However, the other handles, from the same manufacturer, are pitted,
>but untouched. That's because they previously were cleaned and coated
>with a very thin layer of Krylon clear acrylic.

Migration to the surface of a plasticizer, or an un-cured acrylic
monomer, followed by oxidation?

--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 27 Feb 2013 20:56:29 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Wow. The real Jeff Liebermann (two n's and i-before-e) on alt.home.repair.

The original message was crossposted to sci.electronics.repair,
another of my hangouts.

>I'm impressed. You're the expert in the SC mountains for wireless radio.
>Glad to have you here.

Not much wireless happening lately. alt.wireless.internet is
essentially dead. Wireless has become a commodity after about 15
years, which is a good thing.

>I am VERY FAMILIAR with this persistent "white stuff".
>I have no idea WHAT it is - but I have it too.

I do. However, if you want a microscope photo, I'll bring the "moldy"
screwdriver from home, put it under the microscope, and take some
photos. I assure you that it's plastic, not spores.

>It's either a chemical coating or it's a mold-like growth.
>It does seem to be hugely persistent, in that if you don't scrape it
>away, it will last (seemingly unchanged) forever.

Yep. It doesn't grow. Therefore, it's not mold.

>I remember segregating my white-coated tools a while ago, but I no
>longer do that once I manually scraped them (mostly) clean.
>
>I seem to remember that the white stuff "infected" other tools, but,
>it's no longer doing that (after twenty years). But, that white stuff
>you see in this photo is easily twenty years old!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg

My early Craftsman tools, when they were made by Miller Falls, do not
collect plastic rot.
<http://oldtoolheaven.com/history/history.htm>
The later Craftsman tools, probably made in China, have the plastic
rot problem.

>It had coated that screwdriver handle with a white persistent but
>powdery on the outside surface coating just like the picture the OP
>posted over here:
> http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg

Grumble. That's my picture and I'm NOT the OP. The tools with the
acrylic coating are kinda rough, but plastic rot. The two with
plastic rot may have been added after I coated the others. I don't
recall.

>I considered throwing the screwdrivers away, but, my sense of
>tool preservation had me soak that screwdriver maybe 15 years ago
>in all sorts of horrid solvents (acetone, bleach, acid, etc.) in
>my attempts to clean it off.

The only things that actually directly attacked the white stuff were
mild plastic solvents. However, anything that dissolved the white
stuff, also attacked the plastic handle, so that's not a good fix.

>If anyone actually KNOWS what this white stuff is, I'd be curious!

Send it to a pathology lab and see what they say.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:37:00 +0000 (UTC), Bill Rotham
<bar...@notforspam.com> wrote:

>The other is on my pool pump - which - you can imagine - isn't
>mold but a white chemical covering (calcium carbonate?).
>
>So, the first question, is whether it's a mold or a chemical?
>Note: I don't know the answer for either of my tools above.

Well, you can easily eliminate calcium carbonate (lime) as a
possibility. Take some dilute hydrochloric acid (Muriatic Acid or
pool chlorine), and smear it on the plastic rot. If it fizzes and
belches gases, it's calcium carbonate. If it doesn't fizz, it's
something else:
CaCO3 + 2HCl -> CaCl2 +CO2 + H2O

[Sjouke Burry]

micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news:2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com:

> My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
> floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,

> and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
> them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>

> I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
> basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
> mold. And the rest never get mold.
>
> I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
> wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
> or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
> be clean.
>
> Thanks.
>

Dont touch the utils with greasy fingers.
That feeds the mould.

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:22:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Take some dilute hydrochloric acid (Muriatic Acid or pool chlorine), and
> smear it on the plastic rot. If it fizzes and belches gases, it's
> calcium carbonate.

I'll try that tomorrow as I have tons of pool acid (HCl).

Like you, I'll take a relevant picture, and let the world know the
results.

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:18:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> I assure you that it's plastic, not spores.

Well, you're famous for having the right answer in the electrical
realm, so, I would have to give you the benefit of the doubt in
the mechanical.

> It doesn't grow. Therefore, it's not mold.

True. It just sort of sits there. Minding its own business.

> Grumble. That's my picture and I'm NOT the OP.

Ooops. Sorry about that. Your picture, as always, was perfectly apropos!
Too bad the OP didn't have the skills you have for Internet nntp work.

Come to think of it, VERY FEW people have your skills. You've helped
me quite a few times (under various nyms) on the wireless side, what
with that lousy set of WISPS in the SC mountains (yea, Brett, you know
him as I do. He's nice enough - but he's too busy and harried to give
you the technical time of day, and Dave, well, I'm glad I dropped
them).

> The only things that actually directly attacked the white stuff were
> mild plastic solvents. However, anything that dissolved the white
> stuff, also attacked the plastic handle, so that's not a good fix.

I seem to remember I soaked mine in a variety of nasty solvents,
none of which worked - and then - about 10 years ago (or so, as I
don't really remember), I just scraped them clean. Have been that
way ever since.

> Send it to a pathology lab and see what they say.

I wish I had the following 'scopes ...
a) microscope
b) oscilloscope
c) telescope

:)

[Brian Berg]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:39:32 +0000, Sjouke Burry wrote:

> Dont touch the utils with greasy fingers.
> That feeds the mould.

If it is mold, I doubt shop grease would feed it as I
don't think anything has evolved to eat grease just yet.
Wait a few thousand years, and I'm sure they will.

Now, if you meant oily fingers (from human sebum), I'm
sure LOTS of organisms find that yummy.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 28 Feb 2013 03:00:47 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Well, you're famous for having the right answer in the electrical
>realm, so, I would have to give you the benefit of the doubt in
>the mechanical.

Bad idea. I jumped into sci.electronics.design with my ancient and
obsolete experience. It appears that some things have changed in the
last 20+ years. After shoving my foot firmly into my mouth several
times, I've decided that I don't really know everything. Try not to
assume that I'm always right, as I've made some rather spectacular
technical screwups. However, it appears that I know more about
management than many engineers, so I'm not a total loss.

>Come to think of it, VERY FEW people have your skills.

Answering questions is easy. The real problem is that most people are
not really well versed in the art of how to ask a proper question.
Most of what I do rather well, is decoding such questions, reading
between the lines as to what this person is really trying to
accomplish, and then answering the questions they didn't ask. If I
control both the question and the answer, it's all quite easy.

>You've helped
>me quite a few times (under various nyms)

I wish you wouldn't do that.

>> Send it to a pathology lab and see what they say.

>I wish I had the following 'scopes ...
> a) microscope
> b) oscilloscope
> c) telescope

You're not getting my microscope:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Olympus-BHC-Microscope.html>

I have far too many oscilloscopes. I was about to fix some of them
and put them on eBay. Make me rich and you can have one of them.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/scopes-to-be-fixed.jpg>

I do have a crappy 4.5" Celestron reflector with a few eyepieces that
is cluttering up my bedroom. Can't see anything through the trees and
I don't feel like freezing on some mountain top.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 28 Feb 2013 03:22:19 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:39:32 +0000, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>
>> Dont touch the utils with greasy fingers.
>> That feeds the mould.
>
>If it is mold, I doubt shop grease would feed it as I
>don't think anything has evolved to eat grease just yet.
>Wait a few thousand years, and I'm sure they will.

You can have mutant oil eating bacteria today:
<http://www.naturalnews.com/031090_Gulf_of_Mexico_bacteria.html>

I usually wear blue latex rubber gloves when working with anything
potentially nasty or messy. It's not really for protection but
because I dislike cleaning up everything I touch afterwards. Black
fingerprints on my (music) synthesizer keyboard is not a good thing.

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:55:34 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> You're not getting my microscope:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Olympus-BHC-Microscope.html>

Heh heh. That's a nice microscope with a nice oscilloscope in the background!

[Brian Berg]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:01:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> You can have mutant oil eating bacteria today:

I hadn't realized they were that advanced!

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:22:26 -0600, Doug <do...@noemailaddress.com>

My mother eventually began, when I was over 40 she said it outloud,,
to believe that I would do whatever she told me not to do. After I
noticed this, I asked her, So if I do what you tell me not to do, why
do you keep telling me not to do these things? She didn't have an
answer, but afaict she didnt' stop either.

[willshak]

Brian Berg wrote the following on 2/27/2013 3:45 PM (ET):
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:07:44 -0800, Red wrote:
>
>> about 25 there were 6 that had an off white coating similar to mold.
>> The coated knobs were identical and appeared to come off the same
>> piece of old test equipment. The rest of the knobs were perfectly
>> normal. Thinking they were moldy I soaked them overnight in a clorox
>> solution and it didn't phase them. So it definitely wasn't mold. But
>> with soapy water and a old toothbrush they cleaned easily so I
>> determined it was an old plastic compound reaction.
>
> That's exactly my experience.
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg
>
> The plastic on the handles was coated with a thin white layer
> which I could scrape off with a sharp tool (the results in
> that picture are of a screwdriver scraped years ago, but some
> of the persistent white stuff is still on the handle, in spots).
>
> I don't know WHAT it is!

I have some hard spots on my tool handles like that, but I know what it is.
It is remnants of paint that may have been on my hands when I used the
tool while painting, like removing face plates off switches and outlets,
or other uses of the tool while painting.

>
> Like you experienced, it wouldn't 'wash' off and chlorine bleach
> didn't faze it (of course, if it 'is' mold, it would be dead but
> still there if bleach did kill it, since it's white).
>
> I don't know if it's a "mold" or a "chemical".
> It does seem to 'infect' other tools - but both a mold and a chemical
> 'can' do that (think hydrochloric acid).
>

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

[willshak]

Who?

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:14:07 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:41:23 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Also, an important clue is that I can have a drawer full of plastic
>>handle hex spintite wrenches, and only some of them will have a "mold"
>>problem. This implies that the culprit is resident mostly in the
>>plastic and not the environment.
>
>Maybe a photo will help:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>
>This is a drawer from my steel Craftsman toolbox that I don't use very
>often. The white stuff is the alleged "mold". Note that it's on two
>of the handles, but not the others.

Yes, the yellow one has the most. I t hink my yellow ones are most
likely to have this and when they do, they have the most. The one
screwdriver that reminded me of this has a yellow plastic handle.
(The other two things t hat reminded me a couple days ago where jumper
wires with banana plugs, blue and green, but that's soft vinyl and not
hard plastic. ......))

> The larger tools are made by
>Vaco. The blue and the yellow handles are covered with the stuff.
>However, the other handles, from the same manufacturer, are pitted,
>but untouched. That's because they previously were cleaned and coated
>with a very thin layer of Krylon clear acrylic. I'm not sure why the
>blue and yellow handles are affected.

Maybe because one is yellow? I just based a whole paragraph on that!

[micky]

On 27 Feb 2013 20:49:53 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:14:07 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Maybe a photo will help:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>
>
>That's EXACTLY what this screwdriver USED to look like!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12297573/img/12297573.jpg
>
>So, whatever it is, it's common.

Yes, I'm glad to learn about that. I thought I was so alone (boohoo).

>
>Again, I don't know if it is a mold or a chemical.
>It does NOT happen to all tools of the same type.
>
>It just happens to select tools which were stored in a
>different environment (I think my affected screwdrivers
>were used when I worked at a hospital on oxygen respirators).

In my case, I'll have 20 tools in a drawer, or 15 little tools in an
inbox, and only a few get "moldy". I have to take some time later
today to see how many are yellow.

In addition, the box of knobs is two boxes actually, in the same
drawer of an old dresser. Theyr'e almost all brown or black, and
I'll have to check if the moldy ones are all on top, or the bottom or
something, but I don't recall that being the case. And only some get
moldy.

The tooks and knobs have all spent 100% of their time in the previous
year or years in the same room in my basement.

IOW, the environments are the same

[micky]

On 27 Feb 2013 20:56:29 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:40:54 -0800, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>> Your explanation makes more semse than "mold". The OP did not say
>> what type of handles or tools were/were not affected, or if the tools
>> were in a dark airless corner or out in plain sight, etc, so we really
>> need more information.
>
>Wow. The real Jeff Liebermann (two n's and i-before-e) on alt.home.repair.

That's only because I crossposted to alt.home.repair and
sci.electronics.repair. If you want more of him, you have to go
to the second ng.

I've long wished there was an easy way to tell which ng someone is
posting from. I once put in my .sig, "probably posting from nnnnn",
"probably" because I also read the other group directly sometimes, but
it disappeared with a liater installation of Agent.

>
>I'm impressed. You're the expert in the SC mountains for wireless radio.

Wow, I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't crossposted.

>Glad to have you here.
>
>I am VERY FAMILIAR with this persistent "white stuff".
>I have no idea WHAT it is - but I have it too.
>
>It's either a chemical coating or it's a mold-like growth.
>It does seem to be hugely persistent, in that if you don't scrape it
>away, it will last (seemingly unchanged) forever.

Interestingly, I don't have to scrape mine off. I can brush it off
with my finger, or a paper towel iirc. Of course that doesn't apply
when it's in a crevice or crack.

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:44:02 +0000, DA
<caedfaa9ed1216d60...@example.com> wrote:

>responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/mold-forms-on-cords-knobs-and-tool-handles-738618-.htm
>DA wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>

>> It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
>> doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real
>> mold to
>> grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
>> dust.
>

>*Plastic* dust that grows? Sounds like a new life form! :) The OP did not say what exactly is he doing in the workshop but I am pretty sure if it was something that creates a lot of dust of any kind, he'd mentioned it.

I am creating life. So far, I only have dust-like life, but it
grows.

My next step will be to give it arms, legs, and a head.

>
>Perhaps it's technically not mold per se (not fungal) but it's still biological - you've touched the handles, you've left some residue behind (sweat, skin flakes), bacteria are thankful for it, eat it and multiply. Still the same type of concern as with mold - something grows in your basement that you don't want. I would think some air movement and dryer air, just like with mold, would help and perhaps introduction of UV light in there wouldn't hurt either. Like those disinfecting lights in hospitals.
>

[Michael A. Terrell]

willshak wrote:
>
> Brian Berg wrote the following on 2/28/2013 1:24 AM (ET):
> > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:01:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> >> You can have mutant oil eating bacteria today:
> > I hadn't realized they were that advanced!
>
> Who?

"Mutant oil eating bacteria" was one of those flash in the pan '80s
rock bands. ;)

[Jeff Liebermann]

Yep. So far, 27 different varieties of bacteria and fungus have added
diesel fuel to their menu:
<http://www.oillab.co.nz/diesel_bug_explained>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=diesel+bacteria&tbm=isch>
When I drove a diesel pickup truck, I would occasionally add a biocide
to the tank. Over time, the bugs are developing immunities to the
common bug killers. Left to expand uncontrollably, this could be the
end of civilization as we know it.

Meanwhile, researchers are working on a way to break down all the
plastic bottles, containers, packaging, and junk that our civilization
is so good at producing. At the present rate, we'll be swimming in
plastic garbage unless something is done to accelerate decomposition.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch>
One of the methods proposed is to breed and release plastic eating
bacteria in the landfills.
<http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/blogs/boy-discovers-microbe-that-eats-plastic>
<http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110328/full/news.2011.191.html>
etc. Eventually some bug will be found that eats plastic. It will
leak out of the landfills, infest out homes, destroy everything made
from plastic, and rewind civilization before the discovery of
petroleum (steam punk?), which might not be such a bad thing.

[Brian Berg]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:26:49 -0500, micky wrote:

> Maybe because one is yellow?

Mine are on craftsman tools, which are not yellow.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Brian Berg" <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:512faae4$0$18126$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se...

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:26:49 -0500, micky wrote:
>
>> Maybe because one is yellow?
>
> Mine are on craftsman tools, which are not yellow.
>

I have an Xcelite nutdriver that is red and a Craftsman screwdriver that is
clear with red stripes on it. Both of them have a white dust like material
on them. This is the same stuff that has been called 'mold'. It is not
mold, the plastic going bad.

[micky]

And it left holes in m fingers too. LOL.

[micky]

On 28 Feb 2013 03:00:47 GMT, Brian Berg <bb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:18:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> I assure you that it's plastic, not spores.
>
>Well, you're famous for having the right answer in the electrical
>realm, so, I would have to give you the benefit of the doubt in
>the mechanical.
>
>> It doesn't grow. Therefore, it's not mold.
>
>True. It just sort of sits there. Minding its own business.
>
>> Grumble. That's my picture and I'm NOT the OP.
>
>Ooops. Sorry about that. Your picture, as always, was perfectly apropos!
>Too bad the OP didn't have the skills you have for Internet nntp work.

Huh? Because I chose not to post a picture, I don't have the news
skills Jeff has? That's no wayi to draw conclusions.

You should learn to praise someone without having to run down someone
else.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:29:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>

>>However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
>>and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>>them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>

>It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
>doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real mold to
>grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic

>dust. Hit is with some heat, and watch it melt. I get this plastic
>"mold" on most of my cheap plastic handle tools. The plastic breaks
>down along the surface and sorta crumbles. It's probably caused by
>exposure to something in the air, which condenses onto the surface
>when wet. Washing the stuff off with any kind of kitchen cleaner
>works, for a while.
(...)

The white rot is plastic, not mold. So it is written, so it must be.

I scraped some of the white stuff from the plastic handle and put it
under a x100 microscope.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
Not the best photos but I'll try again after yet another Friday night
customer crisis. The photos show absolutely no structure, self
simularity, or colonies characteristic of mold.
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=mold>
I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It
melted like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white
stuff also disolved nicely in acetone.

Drivel: Besides the Mercedes fuel pump, todays repairs were a
Bernzomatic trigger start propane torch (cold flow PTFE igniter wire),
an iPhone 4 with a non-functional standby push button (I gave up), yet
another HP LaserJet 4250 printer with sticky relays (replace felt
pad), and helped mount the landlords bicycle rack on his SUV.
Sometimes, I wonder what business I'm in.

[micky]

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:47:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>The white rot is plastic, not mold. So it is written, so it must be.
>
>I scraped some of the white stuff from the plastic handle and put it
>under a x100 microscope.
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
>Not the best photos but I'll try again after yet another Friday night
>customer crisis. The photos show absolutely no structure, self
>simularity, or colonies characteristic of mold.
><https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=mold>

The nutdriver is yellow!!

>I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It
>melted like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white
>stuff also disolved nicely in acetone.

And so I gather will the nut driver handle.

>Drivel: Besides the Mercedes fuel pump, todays repairs were a
>Bernzomatic trigger start propane torch (cold flow PTFE igniter wire),
>an iPhone 4 with a non-functional standby push button (I gave up), yet
>another HP LaserJet 4250 printer with sticky relays (replace felt
>pad), and helped mount the landlords bicycle rack on his SUV.
>Sometimes, I wonder what business I'm in.

Yes, you certainly deal with a wide range of stuff. What business ARE
you in? :-)
>
>-
>Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

For a while my home phone was broken and my cell phone was lost (in
the house) and I was using Skype to call out.

I didn't sign up for a Skype phone number yet, however. If someone
calls when I'm not there, can the caller leave a message, or at least
his phone number??

[micky]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:15:32 -0600, Vinny From NYC
<vi...@NYCapple.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>

>wrote in <2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com> Re mold forms on
>cords, knobs, and tool handles:

>
>>I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
>>wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
>>or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
>>be clean.
>

>Have the house treated for mold. Mold is deadly. Do it for the
>children.

Yes, the children. I do care about the children .

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 23:52:35 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>The nutdriver is yellow!!

Is this a problem? In my drawer of rarely used nut drivers, blue is
also affected.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/plastic-rot.jpg>

>Yes, you certainly deal with a wide range of stuff. What business ARE
>you in? :-)

That's a tough question to answer. Basically, I separate my customers
from their money by providing a wide variety of services. It usually
involves some form of electronics, but also includes oddities such as
sewing machine repair.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kenmore-sewing-machine.jpg>
It is not unusual for me to repair appliances after fixing their
computers. As one business wanes (I was once in the calculator repair
biz), I expand into adjacent businesses. I find it helpful, but not
necessary, to know what I'm doing.

>For a while my home phone was broken and my cell phone was lost (in
>the house) and I was using Skype to call out.

Many cellular vendors allow you to activate a new phone, on an
existing number, via their web page, or via the phone. For example,
with Verizon, you dial *228. Buy a spare qualifying Verizon phone on
eBay for a few dollars and throw the spare where you can find it (i.e.
your vehicle). When you lose your phone, just activate the spare
until you find it. Also, make sure that the spare phone you purchase
is "clean".
<http://checkesnfree.com>

>I didn't sign up for a Skype phone number yet, however. If someone
>calls when I'm not there, can the caller leave a message, or at least
>his phone number??

No. Incoming calls from the PSTN cannot be received without a Skype
account that includes an incoming phone number. Without a phone
number, there's no way for anyone to dial your computer from a POTS
phone. What I've done is purchase a minimal account for a few
dollars, and use it only for emergencies. I've had about $15 on my
account for several years, with no monthly charges.

Similarly, Skype also charges for voicemail storage. However, if the
incoming caller uses Skype to originate the call, the PSTN is not
involved and your Skype client will show that you've received a call
from some person. The catch is that if you allow anyone to call your
Skype account, you open the flood gates to getting spammed and
solicited at your account. I have mine set to only allow calls from
people in my Skype address book.

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Sometimes, I wonder what business I'm in.

That's pretty obvious to those that follow you here.

About three years ago you retired, but like a character in an M. Knight
Shamalan movie, you refuse to notice.

:-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
It's Spring here in Jerusalem!!!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 17:04:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<g...@mendelson.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Sometimes, I wonder what business I'm in.

>That's pretty obvious to those that follow you here.

Well, the standard answer is that I'm in business to do business. When
about 30% of my gross income is tangled up with taxes and 50% in
overhead, the business end of the repair biz is far more important
than the individual repair jobs.

Many years ago, when I was still pretending to listen to advice, I was
warned against over specialization. 40+ years later, I've noticed
that my classmates, that entered into overly specialized areas, have
either priced themselves out of the market, have had their specialty
simply disappear, or have been outsourced into oblivion. I'm not
suggesting that one should try to learn anything and everything, just
not to become overly dependent on one particular skill. Were I still
an RF engineer, designing various radios, I would either be
simultaneously doing 3 peoples jobs for a tolerable pay, or standing
in the unemployment line awaiting my government entitlement.

>About three years ago you retired, but like a character in an M. Knight
>Shamalan movie, you refuse to notice.

Not quite. I retired in 1983, but didn't know it. I had just been
laid off from an engineering position and decided that engineering
management and my abrasive personality were mutually exclusive. Since
then, I've experimented with numerous businesses and professions, with
the usual wide variations in success. Unfortunately, I'm getting
sufficient old and tired that such changes and product ideas are not
going to work well in the future.

[The Daring Dufas]

There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant of
being in the employ of actinic sphincters that the he fears life in
prison for stomping the asshole until he quits twitching. I've had to
hide my crowbars whenever some of them got around me so I decided the
risk was too great and abandoned the corporate world for a life of
independent contracting. ^_^

TDD

[Jeff Liebermann]

Sorry, but I was somewhat ambiguous. My phrase "that engineering
management and my abrasive personality were mutually exclusive" refers
to me, not corporate management. At the time, I had been functioning
simultaneously as both an engineer and a manager. I soon realized
that I had to choose one or the other. Since my personality tends to
piss off everyone within range, I chose engineer, where prickly
personalities are common. In effect, I refused promotion, which was
at the time considered a capital crime. When the economy took a dive,
and the first round of layoffs occurred, I was one of the first to be
laid off.

I did the independent contractor, consultant, and hired gun thing for
a while, but didn't like all the travel that was required. I also
seemed to find situations and products that were beyond redemption or
salvage. In several cases, I was setup for a failure, and then
dutifully blamed when I failed. I had made a pile of money on stock
options and speculation, so I was able to loaf while I decided what to
do next.

I floundered around between 1983 and mid 1986, continuing to do
consulting but also building up the repair biz. I was about to setup
a local consultants exchange, when my father settled the issue by
having a severe stroke. I found myself running his lingerie
manufacturing business for several years until it could be sold and
commuting back and forth between Santa Cruz and Smog Angeles
approximately twice per month. I don't want to get into details here.
Incidentally, I am still on good terms with all of my former
employers. I had plenty of disagreements with them, but none of them
were ever allowed to become personal. It was quite common to engage
in heated technical arguments with them, followed by a calm lunch
discussion over politics, sports, or other non-work related interests.
After lunch, the arguments would resume.

I find it odd that you would pass judgment on your employers. It's
not nice to bite the hand that feeds you. I have worked for crooks,
liars, politicians, and marginal incompetents. I have been on good
relations with all of them. If you cannot get along with even your
worst enemy for the achievement of a common goal, you're doing
something wrong. Even the worst employer can be trained.

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant of
> being in the employ of actinic sphincters that the he fears life in
> prison for stomping the asshole until he quits twitching. I've had to
> hide my crowbars whenever some of them got around me so I decided the
> risk was too great and abandoned the corporate world for a life of
> independent contracting. ^_^

You were only six when you did that. ;-)

[The Daring Dufas]

That's when I was remanded to the Catholic Parochial Gulag back in the
50's and introduced to Sister Godzilla. Child care was based on sheer
terror back then. That's why I don't like folks who mistreat kids. When
I was six, I decided all adults were full of crap, the mistake I made
was letting the nuns know it. O_o

TDD

[William Sommerwerck]

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:03:47 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:

> There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant

> of being in the employ of actinic sphincters...

Was "actinic" the word you wanted? If you meant "flaming"... It's not really a
synonym.


"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:s9g5j8tqss100rtr2...@4ax.com...

> Since my personality tends to piss off everyone within range...

That's odd, because your postings are almost always good-humored.

> I find it odd that you would pass judgment on your employers. It's
> not nice to bite the hand that feeds you. I have worked for crooks,
> liars, politicians, and marginal incompetents. I have been on good
> relations with all of them. If you cannot get along with even your
> worst enemy for the achievement of a common goal, you're doing
> something wrong. Even the worst employer can be trained.

Your point is well-taken, but there are certain people one would not like to
work to, simply because we dislike them as human beings. I'm thinking
particularly of a certain person on "Gold Rush".

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/3/2013 7:50 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:03:47 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> <the-dari...@stinky-finger.net> wrote:
>
>> There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant
>> of being in the employ of actinic sphincters...
>
> Was "actinic" the word you wanted? If you meant "flaming"... It's not
> really a synonym.
>

I meant it to be a play on words since "actinic" is closer to "glowing"
than "flaming". Many unpleasant people are anything but brilliant and
full of light. ^_^

It appears you were responding to me and JL at the same time.

TDD

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:47:40 -0800:

> I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It melted
> like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white stuff also
> disolved nicely in acetone.

Hi Jeff,

Those were fantastic pictures. I always assumed it was mold, but, now,
I must rethink 'what' it is.

I don't remember trying acetone, but, my screwdrivers still have a
hint of the white stuff from years past, so I will try that to see.

Thank you very much for the wonderful experimental work. You're in
the top 1% of all people who THINK on this planet!

[Ken Tumblison]

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:21:50 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
>

> floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,

>
> and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>
> them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>
>
>

> I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
>
> basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
>
> mold. And the rest never get mold.
>
>
>

> I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
>
> wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
>
> or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
>
> be clean.
>
>
>

> Thanks.

Your best bet in a basement is to run a dehumidifier at all times. The moisture that gets in the air in a basement usually has no way out of the house so it attaches to whatever it can and causes different types of mold to grow. I have seen this a lot in basements over the years and in most instances a dehumidifier will solve the problem.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:07:26 +0000 (UTC), Al Schmidt
<as...@notforspam.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote on Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:47:40 -0800:
>
>> I also heated some of the white stuff on a microscope slide. It melted
>> like plastic (burning my fingers in the process). The white stuff also
>> disolved nicely in acetone.

>Those were fantastic pictures.

The microscope photos were awful, grainy, and somewhat otto focus but
sufficient to make a few observations:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
I left the microscope setup in my office and will try to take some
better pictures with better objective lenses and better lighting on
Monday night. Bottom lighting didn't work because the "plastic rot"
was too thick. It also wrecked the focus as my depth of field is very
limited at x100 and x400. Maybe lower power will help.

Ever wonder who makes the tool handles?
<http://www.alhandles.com>
Nothing on their site about the problem, or even what type of plastics
are used.

Typical acrylic extruded rods:
<http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_rods_tubes_shapes/colored_acrylic_rod/148>

>I always assumed it was mold, but, now,
>I must rethink 'what' it is.

It's not mold. It looks, acts, burns, melts, and disolves like
acrylic plastic. It's translucent, not white. It doesn't grow, has
no structure, doesn't creat colonies, and doesn't produce spores.

>I don't remember trying acetone, but, my screwdrivers still have a
>hint of the white stuff from years past, so I will try that to see.

Hold it. Don't try using acetone to clean your screwdriver. It will
attack and make a sticky mess of the good parts of the screwdriver
handle. Acetone will dissolve acrylic plastic which is what I guess
the handles are made from. Consult a chemical compatibilty chart for
plastics before using any solvents.
<http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/acrylite_chem_resist.pdf>
For cleaning, use anything that will scrape the stuff off, such as a
knife blade, scouring pad, or sandpaper. Use a buffing wheel to
retore the shine.

>Thank you very much for the wonderful experimental work. You're in
>the top 1% of all people who THINK on this planet!

Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
"observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> On 3/2/2013 10:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> ?
> ? The Daring Dufas wrote:
> ??
> ?? There comes a time in a mans life where he becomes so intolerant of
> ?? being in the employ of actinic sphincters that the he fears life in
> ?? prison for stomping the asshole until he quits twitching. I've had to
> ?? hide my crowbars whenever some of them got around me so I decided the
> ?? risk was too great and abandoned the corporate world for a life of
> ?? independent contracting. ^_^
> ?
> ?
> ? You were only six when you did that. ;-)
> ?

>
> That's when I was remanded to the Catholic Parochial Gulag back in the
> 50's and introduced to Sister Godzilla. Child care was based on sheer
> terror back then. That's why I don't like folks who mistreat kids. When
> I was six, I decided all adults were full of crap, the mistake I made
> was letting the nuns know it. O_o

Your next mistake was growing up. ;-)

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
> version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
> "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
> the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
it is mold.

The failure is that accepting the simplest explanation "it is mold"
limits the search for "all things" and some important facts are missed.

I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
a broken system by replacing parts randomly.

If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a chance
of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring themselves
"experts".

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
>
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> ? Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
> ? version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
> ? "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
> ? the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

>
> Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
> Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
> it is mold.
>
> The failure is that accepting the simplest explanation "it is mold"
> limits the search for "all things" and some important facts are missed.
>
> I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
> a broken system by replacing parts randomly.
>
> If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a chance
> of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring themselves
> "experts".

Shotgunning is the true mark of a very poor tech. They don't want to
learn why things fail, or what parts are actually needed.

[The Daring Dufas]

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD

[Ralph Mowery]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnkj7as...@cable.mendelson.com...

>> I see this all too often in computers, where people without a clue, fix
> a broken system by replacing parts randomly.
>
> If there are 5 componens in a system, replacing any one of them has a
> chance
> of fixing the system, possibly as much as 20% and then declaring
> themselves
> "experts".

Often it is the same component that fails 90% of the time. That makes the
'experts' have an even beter reputation if they know of this part.

I just fixed the dial light on a radio of mine that has a known failuer of a
driver transistor. It was a $ 2 part and about an hour of my time instead
of spending about $ 100 to ship it off and get it back. I did not trouble
shoot it, just tried the 'known' fix. The rado and where the part is
located at is past my ability to do actual trouble shooting, but not beyond
my ability to actually replace the part.

When I was working I would sometimes get a call while I was at home on
something at work was not working. By knowing some known problems, I could
tell the ones at work a thing or two to try,and many times that would fix
the problem.

[Dan Espen]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> writes:

> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
>> version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
>> "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
>> the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.
>
> Or in other words, another failure of the proper application of
> Occam's Razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is that
> it is mold.

I can't believe this thread is still going on and people are still suggesting
mold. A few seconds with Google will explain the process.

Try "white powder screwdriver" and actually read a few of the posts.

Then maybe the OP will come back and report what he smells.

This was discussed here in alt.home.repair a few years ago.

--
Dan Espen

[William Sommerwerck]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:U-adnatXObEUM67M...@earthlink.com...

> Shotgunning is the true mark of a very poor tech. They don't
> want to learn why things fail, or what parts are actually needed.

Might I respectfully semi-disagree?

I have always wanted to understand >>why<< something wasn't working correctly
before I fixed it. But as products have become more complex and harder to
troubleshoot, it seems increasingly necessary to, on some occasions, shotgun.
I don't like it, but if you're running a repair business, you have to get the
item out the door to stay in business.

If it's of any interest, I have never had a callback on anything I've
repaired. But that was in the days when virtually all electronics was composed
of discrete components you could unsolder and test, if need be.

[Attila Iskander]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B_CdndgJkc04grPM...@earthlink.com...
>
> "micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:2icri8llum4a5m0qp...@4ax.com...

>> My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
>> floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
>> and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
>> them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)
>>
>> I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
>> basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
>> mold. And the rest never get mold.
>>
>> I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
>> wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
>> or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
>> be clean.
>

> The plastic in some tool handles will break down over a period of time.
> It is just bad quality plastic. Even some other wise good tools have this
> problem.
> If it only some tools and always the same ones, you just have to replace
> the tools when the handles fall off.
>
>

Just use that dipping handle cover.
Here's one such product
<http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip>
I have different tool boxes for different uses, such as electrical,
plumbing, carpentry, car, bicycle, motorbike, general, etc.
I get it in different colors, to identify which tool box or "application"
tool kit they belong to. It has really cut down on tool "evaporation". It
also has made enforcement of tool replacement to it's proper box far easier
with other family members.

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800:

> Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
> version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
> "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
> the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

Hi Jeff,
I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

A few on alt.home.repair have that quality - but not very many
(probably a half dozen, e.g., Oren, krw,

[Al Schmidt]

Jeff Liebermann wrote on Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800:

> Thanks again. I'll spare you my lecture on the topic. The simple
> version is from Sherlock Holmes, where Watson "sees" but does not
> "observe". Plastic rot is similar in that we "see" mold, but few have
> the time, abilities, and equipment to test if it's really mold.

... last post sent too soon by accident ... trying again ...

Hi Jeff,
I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

A few on alt.home.repair have that quality - but not very many

(probably a half dozen, e.g., Oren, Jim Elbrecht, SMS,
Trader4, Ed Pawlowski, & DerbyDad03, krw, etc.).

Plus, very few take the time and energy to post a photograph,
which, in my humble opinion, is just plain old COMMON COURTESY
when asking a question.

Some, but not all, make statements that aren't backed up
by URLs (when they should be).

And, most just drop off, without also writing up a SUMMARY
of lessons learned. Some do, but very few.

Lastly, some get downright acidic when they are confronted
with alternative information. They're the worst, of course,
because they're a cancer on the discussion.

Anyway, I, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts at figuring
this out. To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
definitively (although I see a post that says it was discussed
in a.h.r but the poster didn't provide any URLs so we have to
look it up to see what the result was and the proof supplied).

[Dan Espen]

Here you go:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ

http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr


--
Dan Espen

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
>http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr

That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

There is also some wrong information in the thread.
1. It's not the plastic handles that stinks. It's the caesin (milk
based) plastic cases that reek. I have several of these and can
confirm that the drivers are fine and the cases are the source of the
smell.
2. The handles are made from acrylic and not vinyl as claimed. Vinyl
is quite flexible and very different from the hard acrylic. Hoewever,
I have NOT been able to definitively identify the type of plastic used
in my Vaco and Craftsman screwdrivers. My guess is acrylic, but I'm
not 100.0% sure. Maybe a burn test:
<http://www.boedeker.com/burntest.htm>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 15:52:11 +0000 (UTC), Al Schmidt
<as...@notforspam.com> wrote:

>I think it's a rare combination of both intelligence, wit, and
>inquisitiveness, plus the rarest of all desire to help others
>to answer the question, that makes you so valuable for us.

Thanks. Hopefully that balances my previous screwups, errors, and bad
logic. It's impossible to write as much as I do, and not get
something wrong occasionally.

>Lastly, some get downright acidic when they are confronted
>with alternative information. They're the worst, of course,
>because they're a cancer on the discussion.

That doesn't bother me much. I'm used to it. What bothers me are
one-line postings, that offer little thought and less information.
Unfortunately, many web forum pages have so many navigation aids and
so much advertising on their pages, that long and detailed replies
seem to be discouraged. The resultant one-liners are of little value.

To get a decent answer on usenet, one needs to provide:
1. What problem are you trying to solve or what are you
trying to accomplish? (Keep it simple)
2. What do you have to work with? (Make, model, version, etc)
3. What have you done so far and what happened?
4. Where are you stuck?
It is possible to get answers without all the aforementioned
information, but it is much more difficult and tends to attract vague
guesswork type answers. Besides, my crystal ball is being repaired by
my wizard, so I can't temporarily guess what someone is asking.

>Anyway, I, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts at figuring
>this out. To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
>definitively (although I see a post that says it was discussed
>in a.h.r but the poster didn't provide any URLs so we have to
>look it up to see what the result was and the proof supplied).

Thanks again. I did the usual Google searching for prior research
into the nature of the plastic "mold" and found little besides bad
guesses and vague assertions. I found plenty of complaints, but no
analysis. That's why I decided that it was time to dig in and analyze
the stuff. The convenient discovery of my drawer full of "moldy" nut
drivers also inspired the investigation.

[Dan Espen]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> writes:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
>>http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr
>
> That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
> stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
> mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

The stink and the white powder are part of the same process.

Do some searches, I've already supplied working keywords.

--
Dan Espen

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 13:02:13 -0500, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>

wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500, Dan Espen <des...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/alt.home.repair/screw$20driver$20handle/alt.home.repair/6F2DSkPIgM0/qe7WX3mCR7IJ
>>>http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr
>>
>> That was a discussion over the Xcelite and Craftsman nutdrivers that
>> stink. There is nothing in that thread that I can find that even
>> mentions "mold" on the plastic handles. Please try to stay on topic.

>The stink and the white powder are part of the same process.
>Do some searches, I've already supplied working keywords.

Much as I appreciate your efforts, I don't consider myself responsible
for proving *your* point. If you believe that the white powder in the
handle, and the smell coming from the case, are one and the same,
methinks it is your responsibility to supply the relevant links which
demonstrate the connection and describes the process. The above URL
never even mentioned white powder or a similar problem. Got a better
URL?

[William Sommerwerck]

I've been sniffing Xcelite (and similar) tools on and off for years, and I
always assumed the odor came from the handle, not the case.

[k...@attt.bizz]

It does. The ones without a case smell just as bad (just got a bunch
of screwdrivers at work last week).

[Jeff Liebermann]

Hmmm... I washed the tools and seperated the case from the tools for
a few days. I found that the odor came from the case, not the tools.
However, I did that maybe 15 years ago and only vaguely remember the
circumstances. I have some Xcelite nut drivers in a plastic case. If
they stink, I'll try the test again.

[Michael A. Terrell]

The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
> gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
> The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
> which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^
>
> TDD

I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

William, the more you actually find the problem and repair what's
needed, the easier and faster it is to do on future jobs. You develop
an understanding for what kinds of parts are the highest failures, and
use logic to narrow down the problem. For instance, surface mount
ceramic resistors and capacitors have a low failure rate, but the
electrolytics have a high failure rate by comparison? Would you shotgun
a couple hundred chip caps, just in case? Would you replace a dozen
ICs, just in case?

The more parts you change on a modern surface mount board, the higher
the chances of destroying the board. It was simpler on tube radios, and
early discrete solid state designs, but it takes a lot of time and
expense to shotgun VLSI and ASIC ICs on a board.

Logical troubleshooting was the method I was taught in the mid '60s,
and after a few years on the bench I was the most productive tech.
Also, the repair costs were lower because I didn't replace as many
parts, nd the customer didn't have to wait for custom parts to be
ordered from the OEM, 'just in case'.

[The Daring Dufas]

I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^

TDD

[Michael A. Terrell]

Then they call you a cab?

[The Daring Dufas]

One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^

TDD

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>The microscope photos were awful, grainy, and somewhat otto focus but
>sufficient to make a few observations:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
>I left the microscope setup in my office and will try to take some
>better pictures with better objective lenses and better lighting on
>Monday night. Bottom lighting didn't work because the "plastic rot"
>was too thick. It also wrecked the focus as my depth of field is very
>limited at x100 and x400. Maybe lower power will help.

I took some more photos, but they were about the same as the others.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/>
The particle sizes are too thick to get a decent photo due to the lack
of depth of field. I just wanted one that shows the plastic like
shine, that is characteristic of plastics, and not mold. I'll melt or
set fire to the stuff later this week.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Then they call you a cab?

That joke goes back at least as far as William S Gilbert. He was tall and
authoritative-looking. A man mistook him for one of those people who stand of
hotels, and asked him to "Call me a cab".

"Very well... You're a four-wheeler."

"Wha...?"

"You said to call you a cab -- and I couldn't very well call you hansom."
(punning on handsome)

[Michael A. Terrell]

Not yours?

[Michael A. Terrell]

I know it's an old joke. I use them as throwaways. ;-)

[The Daring Dufas]

No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^

TDD

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 21:38:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 19:21:44 -0500, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 15:46:39 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
>><grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been sniffing Xcelite (and similar) tools on and off for years, and I
>>>always assumed the odor came from the handle, not the case.
>>
>>It does. The ones without a case smell just as bad (just got a bunch
>>of screwdrivers at work last week).
>
>Hmmm... I washed the tools and seperated the case from the tools for
>a few days. I found that the odor came from the case, not the tools.
>However, I did that maybe 15 years ago and only vaguely remember the
>circumstances. I have some Xcelite nut drivers in a plastic case. If
>they stink, I'll try the test again.

The screwdrivers have never been in a case and still smell of xcelite.
I also have a set of ~50YO Xcelite nutdrivers that still stink but
they are in a case. No white powder, though.

[Michael A. Terrell]

You snooze, you lose! ;-)