Follow-up on washing machine
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micky
Jan 16, 2022, 10:45:19 PMJan 16
to
I got the washing machine assembled maybe 3 weeks ago, with a new belt,
and it now spins like it didn't before, but it doesn't agitate!!! It's a
Kenmore Whirlpool old model, I forget the term.
I let it sit for a day and tried again. I've found that letting things
rest often fixes them. But no luck. I tried all the cycles and every
part of the dial (sta-press, delicate, regular, agitating during wash,
maybe twice, and during rinse, 7 different places, but none of them
worked.)
Then I had my anti-feeding tube removed and though the hole is supposed
to close in 2 to 6 hours, it's 18 days later and it still hasn't closed.
It hurts a little and leaks sometimes and it makes it harder to work on
the washing machine.
But tonight I took off the back and got on my knees and the agitate
solenoid/lever seemed wrong. Not only that I foudn a big nut on the
basement floor. It looks important but it wasn't one of the ones I took
off and replaced later.
Counting the instructions that came with the belt, straight from
Whirlpool, I have about 5 sets of instructions, each a litle different.
One goes into a lot of detail and suggested in a case like this,
switching the wires between the agitate solenoid and the spin solenoid,
so I did that, although it wasn't easy to tip the machine over with the
pain in my belly from the unhealed hole and the stomach acid making a
gravel road out of my belly.
And by golly, now it spins where it should be agitating. I thought that
meant I would have to replace the agitate solenoid, which is not bad,
but by golly it does that too, when it should be spinning. I dont' know
what got the agitation working but it looks like it's almost fixed.
Now if I can only get them to fix me.
and it now spins like it didn't before, but it doesn't agitate!!! It's a
Kenmore Whirlpool old model, I forget the term.
I let it sit for a day and tried again. I've found that letting things
rest often fixes them. But no luck. I tried all the cycles and every
part of the dial (sta-press, delicate, regular, agitating during wash,
maybe twice, and during rinse, 7 different places, but none of them
worked.)
Then I had my anti-feeding tube removed and though the hole is supposed
to close in 2 to 6 hours, it's 18 days later and it still hasn't closed.
It hurts a little and leaks sometimes and it makes it harder to work on
the washing machine.
But tonight I took off the back and got on my knees and the agitate
solenoid/lever seemed wrong. Not only that I foudn a big nut on the
basement floor. It looks important but it wasn't one of the ones I took
off and replaced later.
Counting the instructions that came with the belt, straight from
Whirlpool, I have about 5 sets of instructions, each a litle different.
One goes into a lot of detail and suggested in a case like this,
switching the wires between the agitate solenoid and the spin solenoid,
so I did that, although it wasn't easy to tip the machine over with the
pain in my belly from the unhealed hole and the stomach acid making a
gravel road out of my belly.
And by golly, now it spins where it should be agitating. I thought that
meant I would have to replace the agitate solenoid, which is not bad,
but by golly it does that too, when it should be spinning. I dont' know
what got the agitation working but it looks like it's almost fixed.
Now if I can only get them to fix me.
micky
Jan 17, 2022, 6:46:46 AMJan 17
to
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 16 Jan 2022 22:45:12 -0500, micky
I switched the wires back the way they were, and it seems to both spin
and agitate. I wonder if I just never put the timer at the right spot
for agitating.
But I couldn't turn the hot water on. The plastic handle picked this
time to crack, after 42 years. It worked months ago when I turned the
water off.
THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
or it won't turn the stem, right?
And I couldn't find the hole where the grounding wire was screwed in.
I'm sure it was in the upper left hand corner of the back, but there are
no holes there. -- so it used another hole.
The dirt in bottom 2 inches, from when I didn't get the water out for
months, is just scum and 90% rubbed off with hot water, laundry
detergent, and my fingers. (For the other 5 or 10%, I'll use one of
those small yellow sponges with blue rought stuff on the back.) But
when I drained it out, the first half into the sink was solid black, the
stuff that was in the outer basket, that I couldn't see. I'll run
soapy water through it a few times until the water is clear.
And the cold water hose has, depending on its position, leaked a little
at the connector. I bought a replacement hose at least 10 years ago,
but I'd never see a wet spot bigger than a quarter, so Ididn't move the
machine to replace the hose.
and agitate. I wonder if I just never put the timer at the right spot
for agitating.
But I couldn't turn the hot water on. The plastic handle picked this
time to crack, after 42 years. It worked months ago when I turned the
water off.
THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
or it won't turn the stem, right?
And I couldn't find the hole where the grounding wire was screwed in.
I'm sure it was in the upper left hand corner of the back, but there are
no holes there. -- so it used another hole.
The dirt in bottom 2 inches, from when I didn't get the water out for
months, is just scum and 90% rubbed off with hot water, laundry
detergent, and my fingers. (For the other 5 or 10%, I'll use one of
those small yellow sponges with blue rought stuff on the back.) But
when I drained it out, the first half into the sink was solid black, the
stuff that was in the outer basket, that I couldn't see. I'll run
soapy water through it a few times until the water is clear.
And the cold water hose has, depending on its position, leaked a little
at the connector. I bought a replacement hose at least 10 years ago,
but I'd never see a wet spot bigger than a quarter, so Ididn't move the
machine to replace the hose.
gfre...@aol.com
Jan 17, 2022, 1:19:30 PMJan 17
to
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 06:46:36 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
Sounds more like a broken wire under the insulation or a bad crimp on
the connector. When you screw with it you get it working but I bet it
fails again.
>
>THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
>WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
>with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
>
>THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
>BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
>or it won't turn the stem, right?
Get a replacement knob with all the inserts for various stems and see
if one fits. It may look a little fancier than that one you have but
it will work.
wrote:
the connector. When you screw with it you get it working but I bet it
fails again.
>
>THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
>WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
>with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
>
>THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
>BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
>or it won't turn the stem, right?
if one fits. It may look a little fancier than that one you have but
it will work.
gfre...@aol.com
Jan 17, 2022, 1:21:06 PMJan 17
to
>And the cold water hose has, depending on its position, leaked a little
>at the connector. I bought a replacement hose at least 10 years ago,
>but I'd never see a wet spot bigger than a quarter, so Ididn't move the
>machine to replace the hose.
Don't screw around with a shaky hose. It could flood your house.
>at the connector. I bought a replacement hose at least 10 years ago,
>but I'd never see a wet spot bigger than a quarter, so Ididn't move the
>machine to replace the hose.
micky
Jan 20, 2022, 12:08:23 PMJan 20
to
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:21:38 -0500,
on webpages for Ace, HomeDepot, Lowes, Amazon, Ebay, Somerville (which
is big but not enormous) and Ferguson plumbling supply, which sells
NIBCO valves but not handles. It's 45 dollars for a valve and the
handle probably wouldn't fit anyhow.
I can find only one with a square hole and an optional 1/2" long sleeve
and they don't bother to give a picture of the end of the sleeve. They
give 4 pictures, but none of the most important part of it.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-Metallic-Knob-Bathroom-Sink-Faucet-Handle/50063819?user=shopping
The ones they do sell fit square stems or with 16 or 12 "points".
>if one fits. It may look a little fancier than that one you have but
>it will work.
Then I'll have to buy two. They must match!! But they don't sell any .
I looked at radiator handles too. They sell "universal" ones, but all
the inserts are square, of different sizes.
There is no glue or epoxy I can put into the hole in my current handle
that is strong enough to turn the stem, is there? PC-7 or PC11 or newer
ones, they'll all crumble or slip, won't they? Either between the old
handle and the glue, or between the glue and the stem.
They sell this thing, but it's hideous:
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Plumbing-Handle-Emergency-Replacement-One/dp/B00M16DANU/ref=sr_1_2
I coudln't be the only one in these shoes. What do people do?
I guess I left out the last sentence. Now that it's away from the wall
and i can reach the hose, I changed the hose. Both were stainless steel
clad but the first was from an independant hardware store 30 years ago
(after the all-rubber hose sprang a leak and I could hear water running
when I woke up in the morning. Not a good sound to hear.) And the new
one is in vinyl Ace Hardware bag and its hose is thicker than the old
one. I didn't check if there was a visible difference in the quality of
the connecctors, but otoh, the first one lasted 20 years, so it wasn't
that bad.
Last night, when I'd only replaced the leaky cold-water hose, the
larger diameter new cold water hose overwhelmed the hot water and the
"warm" water was mostly cold. so I changed the other hose too.
gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
>>WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
>>https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
>>with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
>>
>>THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
>>BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
>>or it won't turn the stem, right?
>
>>
>>THEY DON'T SEEM TO SELL HANDLES LIKE MINE, WHICH IS FOR A FLUTED STEM,
>>WITH 8 FLUTES. The closest I can find is
>>https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-16-pt-Round-Valve-Wheel-Handle-80417/203675124
>>with 16 bumps sticking towards the center from the circumference.
>>
>>THAT MEANS ONE BUMP FOR EVERY GROOVE, BUT ANOTHER BUMP FOR EVERY RIDGE
>>BETWEEN THE GROOVES. That won't work, will it? Either it won't go on
>>or it won't turn the stem, right?
>Get a replacement knob with all the inserts for various stems and see
I can't find that, including at two big plumbing supply houses I looked
on webpages for Ace, HomeDepot, Lowes, Amazon, Ebay, Somerville (which
is big but not enormous) and Ferguson plumbling supply, which sells
NIBCO valves but not handles. It's 45 dollars for a valve and the
handle probably wouldn't fit anyhow.
I can find only one with a square hole and an optional 1/2" long sleeve
and they don't bother to give a picture of the end of the sleeve. They
give 4 pictures, but none of the most important part of it.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-Metallic-Knob-Bathroom-Sink-Faucet-Handle/50063819?user=shopping
The ones they do sell fit square stems or with 16 or 12 "points".
>if one fits. It may look a little fancier than that one you have but
>it will work.
I looked at radiator handles too. They sell "universal" ones, but all
the inserts are square, of different sizes.
There is no glue or epoxy I can put into the hole in my current handle
that is strong enough to turn the stem, is there? PC-7 or PC11 or newer
ones, they'll all crumble or slip, won't they? Either between the old
handle and the glue, or between the glue and the stem.
They sell this thing, but it's hideous:
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Plumbing-Handle-Emergency-Replacement-One/dp/B00M16DANU/ref=sr_1_2
I coudln't be the only one in these shoes. What do people do?
and i can reach the hose, I changed the hose. Both were stainless steel
clad but the first was from an independant hardware store 30 years ago
(after the all-rubber hose sprang a leak and I could hear water running
when I woke up in the morning. Not a good sound to hear.) And the new
one is in vinyl Ace Hardware bag and its hose is thicker than the old
one. I didn't check if there was a visible difference in the quality of
the connecctors, but otoh, the first one lasted 20 years, so it wasn't
that bad.
Last night, when I'd only replaced the leaky cold-water hose, the
larger diameter new cold water hose overwhelmed the hot water and the
"warm" water was mostly cold. so I changed the other hose too.
Bob F
Jan 20, 2022, 12:24:42 PMJan 20
to
splines from damage in case you find a knob in the future.
Or, just remove the other knob and use it.
Plan on replacing the valve, or at least re-packing the stem soon.
Jim Joyce
Jan 20, 2022, 2:32:18 PMJan 20
to
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:08:16 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
If you lived down here in the deep South, you'd just clamp a set of Vise
Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
time.
When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
washing machine.
wrote:
Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
time.
When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
washing machine.
Jim Joyce
Jan 20, 2022, 2:33:14 PMJan 20
to
Vise Grips idea.
micky
Jan 20, 2022, 8:26:23 PMJan 20
to
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:32:13 -0600, Jim Joyce
last night I had to use pliers. You're right, if they were vice-grips,
they'd stay there. If I ever need them for something else, I'll know
where to get them.
I know. I'm too damn citified. Take me out to a cotton field, I
woudln't be able to find my way home.
<no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:08:16 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
.......
>On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:08:16 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>There is no glue or epoxy I can put into the hole in my current handle
>>that is strong enough to turn the stem, is there? PC-7 or PC11 or newer
>>ones, they'll all crumble or slip, won't they? Either between the old
>>handle and the glue, or between the glue and the stem.
>>
>>They sell this thing, but it's hideous:
>>https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Plumbing-Handle-Emergency-Replacement-One/dp/B00M16DANU/ref=sr_1_2
>>
>>I coudln't be the only one in these shoes. What do people do?
>
>If you lived down here in the deep South, you'd just clamp a set of Vise
>Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
>time.
>
>When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
>Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
>attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
>washing machine.
I got tired of moving the good handle from one spigot to the other, so
>>There is no glue or epoxy I can put into the hole in my current handle
>>that is strong enough to turn the stem, is there? PC-7 or PC11 or newer
>>ones, they'll all crumble or slip, won't they? Either between the old
>>handle and the glue, or between the glue and the stem.
>>
>>They sell this thing, but it's hideous:
>>https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Plumbing-Handle-Emergency-Replacement-One/dp/B00M16DANU/ref=sr_1_2
>>
>>I coudln't be the only one in these shoes. What do people do?
>
>If you lived down here in the deep South, you'd just clamp a set of Vise
>Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
>time.
>
>When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
>Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
>attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
>washing machine.
last night I had to use pliers. You're right, if they were vice-grips,
they'd stay there. If I ever need them for something else, I'll know
where to get them.
I know. I'm too damn citified. Take me out to a cotton field, I
woudln't be able to find my way home.
micky
Jan 20, 2022, 8:28:41 PMJan 20
to
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:33:07 -0600, Jim Joyce
<no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Use vice grips. Wrap the stem with hard rubber first to protect the
>>splines from damage in case you find a knob in the future.
>>
>>Or, just remove the other knob and use it.
>>
>>Plan on replacing the valve, or at least re-packing the stem soon.
>
>*groan* And that's why I should have read ahead before I posted the same
>Vise Grips idea.
No, everyone should recommend vice grips at least once a month.
>
>>Use vice grips. Wrap the stem with hard rubber first to protect the
>>splines from damage in case you find a knob in the future.
>>
>>Or, just remove the other knob and use it.
>>
>>Plan on replacing the valve, or at least re-packing the stem soon.
>
>*groan* And that's why I should have read ahead before I posted the same
>Vise Grips idea.
Jim Joyce
Jan 21, 2022, 12:29:16 AMJan 21
to
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:26:15 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
I saw a car the other day where the right third of the windshield had
fallen out of its frame and was being mostly held in place with a piece
of tree branch. Down here, you use what you have at hand. Lots of cars
around here that have a trash bag covering a missing window or a piece
of rope or an old shirt to tie the trunk closed. Or a coat hanger as a
radio antenna. I like when they dress up the coat hanger with a
Confederate flag. It's so wrong that it almost wraps around to being
right. Speaking of those flags, we have a pretty big Confederate
cemetery here and someone plants a Confederate flag at the foot of each
grave so I guess people still care about that. Sorry, I drifted there,
but yeah, you can do a lot with a set of Vise Grips, even the Harbor
Freight knock-offs.
wrote:
fallen out of its frame and was being mostly held in place with a piece
of tree branch. Down here, you use what you have at hand. Lots of cars
around here that have a trash bag covering a missing window or a piece
of rope or an old shirt to tie the trunk closed. Or a coat hanger as a
radio antenna. I like when they dress up the coat hanger with a
Confederate flag. It's so wrong that it almost wraps around to being
right. Speaking of those flags, we have a pretty big Confederate
cemetery here and someone plants a Confederate flag at the foot of each
grave so I guess people still care about that. Sorry, I drifted there,
but yeah, you can do a lot with a set of Vise Grips, even the Harbor
Freight knock-offs.
Jim Joyce
Jan 21, 2022, 12:31:52 AMJan 21
to
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:28:35 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:
Ok, good. Keep them with the duct tape, the rope, and the fishing poles.
wrote:
micky
Jan 21, 2022, 3:29:42 AMJan 21
to
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:29:11 -0600, Jim Joyce
Those are trash bags? I thought they were window covers.
>of rope or an old shirt to tie the trunk closed. Or a coat hanger as a
>radio antenna. I like when they dress up the coat hanger with a
>Confederate flag. It's so wrong that it almost wraps around to being
>right. Speaking of those flags, we have a pretty big Confederate
>cemetery here and someone plants a Confederate flag at the foot of each
>grave so I guess people still care about that. Sorry, I drifted there,
>but yeah, you can do a lot with a set of Vise Grips, even the Harbor
>Freight knock-offs.
The real ones are very tough. I haven't tried using the knock-offs as a
hammer.
>of rope or an old shirt to tie the trunk closed. Or a coat hanger as a
>radio antenna. I like when they dress up the coat hanger with a
>Confederate flag. It's so wrong that it almost wraps around to being
>right. Speaking of those flags, we have a pretty big Confederate
>cemetery here and someone plants a Confederate flag at the foot of each
>grave so I guess people still care about that. Sorry, I drifted there,
>but yeah, you can do a lot with a set of Vise Grips, even the Harbor
>Freight knock-offs.
hammer.
Mark Lloyd
Jan 21, 2022, 11:14:19 AMJan 21
to
[snip]
> If you lived down here in the deep South, you'd just clamp a set of Vise
> Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
> time.
>
> When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
> Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
> attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
> washing machine.
I have an outdoor faucet fixed that way. The hole had gotten too big and
smooth to just replace the handle. It's easy to operate that way.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."
[Martin Luther]
> If you lived down here in the deep South, you'd just clamp a set of Vise
> Grips to the valve stem and call it a day. Works good, lasts a long
> time.
>
> When I drive through the Walmart or Home Depot parking lot, I see Vise
> Grips being used for all sorts of things, like steering wheels or to
> attach a mirror or a bumper. If they can do that, they can work on a
> washing machine.
smooth to just replace the handle. It's easy to operate that way.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."
[Martin Luther]
Clare Snyder
Jan 21, 2022, 12:37:48 PMJan 21
to
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:31:40 -0600, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
type!!!)
Nothing you can't patch together with duct tape - or fence wire if
youi have a vice-grip!!
wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:28:35 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:33:07 -0600, Jim Joyce
>><no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Use vice grips. Wrap the stem with hard rubber first to protect the
>>>>splines from damage in case you find a knob in the future.
>>>>
>>>>Or, just remove the other knob and use it.
>>>>
>>>>Plan on replacing the valve, or at least re-packing the stem soon.
>>>
>>>*groan* And that's why I should have read ahead before I posted the same
>>>Vise Grips idea.
>>
>>No, everyone should recommend vice grips at least once a month.
>
>Ok, good. Keep them with the duct tape, the rope, and the fishing poles.
And the roll of fence wire (preferably not the twisted barbed
>On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:28:35 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:33:07 -0600, Jim Joyce
>><no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Use vice grips. Wrap the stem with hard rubber first to protect the
>>>>splines from damage in case you find a knob in the future.
>>>>
>>>>Or, just remove the other knob and use it.
>>>>
>>>>Plan on replacing the valve, or at least re-packing the stem soon.
>>>
>>>*groan* And that's why I should have read ahead before I posted the same
>>>Vise Grips idea.
>>
>>No, everyone should recommend vice grips at least once a month.
>
>Ok, good. Keep them with the duct tape, the rope, and the fishing poles.
type!!!)
Nothing you can't patch together with duct tape - or fence wire if
youi have a vice-grip!!
Clare Snyder
Jan 21, 2022, 12:39:31 PMJan 21
to
On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 03:29:35 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
Just don't get stuck with one of the "limey knockoff" Mole grips!!!..
awful, terrible bodge!
awful, terrible bodge!
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