Problem tightening carriage bolts.
noname87
head of the bolts rotates. Is there a trick to removing these bolts? I
suspect I could cut slots in the head of the bolt or in the body of
the screw or cut the nut off. Any other ideas? Once I get them out,
what is the best way to fix the problem?
dpb
Ya' named the choices other than if you can manage to get enough of a
hold w/ pair of vice grips on the head.
As for fixing the problem, that depends on the application.
--
Dean Hoffman
Does the bolt stem stick out past the nut? You might be able to
keep the bolt from turning with a pair of vice grips on the stem if so.
I wonder if there would be some sort of soft (brass) washer that
could help fill the hole where the bolt head fits. That might keep a
new one from turning.
Jim Elbrecht
>On 5/3/2011 6:50 PM, noname87 wrote:
>> I have several 1/2" carriage bolts that I can not tighten because the
>> head of the bolts rotates. Is there a trick to removing these bolts? I
>> suspect I could cut slots in the head of the bolt or in the body of
>> the screw or cut the nut off. Any other ideas? Once I get them out,
>> what is the best way to fix the problem?
>
>Ya' named the choices other than if you can manage to get enough of a
>hold w/ pair of vice grips on the head.
There's also 'weld a hex nut to the head' - if he has that skill and
tool.
Jim
noname87
> tool.
>
> Jim
Didn't think of that. Unfortunately welding is not part of my skill
set. I wonder if I could achieve the same effect with expoxy.
These bolts hold the supports for my dock together.
Jim Elbrecht
>Take an angle grinder and grind off the nut. Have a pitcher of water
>handy because the wood will smoke and could catch on fire, but just
>douse it with water when the nut is off. Of course, you'll have to
>replace the bolt and nut with a new one later, but a standard hex head
>bolt with a large washer on both sides works well.
Plus one on that. Lose the carriage bolts in this application.
>
>I dont think epoxy is strong enough, but JB Weld might work. I have
>also drilled a hole in the head and driven in a nail on an angle thru
>the head into the wood. But that depends on how rusted the nut is to
>the bolt. They also sell nut splitters, I never had much luck with
>them but I may have had a cheap one.
>
>Grinding is normally the quickest and easiest.
Grind it now or spend a 1/2 day trying everything else, and grind it
this afternoon.<g>
Jim
dadiOH
1. Put them in hard wood
2. Get some of the little steel jobbies with prongs that hammer into the
hole (sort of like "T" nuts) and which have a square hole for the carriage
bolt neck.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
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...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
DerbyDad03
You said two very different things:
"I have several 1/2" carriage bolts that I can not tighten"
and
"Is there a trick to removing these bolts?"
What are you trying to do? Tighten them or loosen them?
jamesgangnc
Sometimes a air impact gun will get them as it "hammers" the nut a
bit. If you are putting these in wood make sure you don't drill the
hole bigger than the bolt. You want square part to be forced into the
hole. Metal backets for docks usually have square holes so that
carrage bolts work with them. If you have a round hole in metal then
you want to use hex head.
Steve B
"noname87" <phugh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2da3e426-adce-42a8...@a10g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
On removal, try an air impact. Hold with a pair of vise grips, weld a piece
off rebar to the top, or slide a screwdriver under it so the turning of the
bolt wedges the screwdriver tighter. If they are corroded, a SawZall or
grinder may be the only way. Reinstall them with an air impact. It will
tighten them a fraction of a turn at a time, and possibly get what you want.
Use lock washers.
Steve
dpb
...
> also drilled a hole in the head and driven in a nail on an angle thru
> the head into the wood. But that depends on how rusted the nut is to
> the bolt. They also sell nut splitters, I never had much luck with
> them but I may have had a cheap one.
...
That's an idea I hadn't ever thought of (the nail in a hole, that is)...
I've used the nut splitter successfully, but only on larger than 3/8" w/
any ease.
For the fix, certainly the machine bolt/washer works; for the
appearances sake on occasion I've used washer w/ square hold and stayed
w/ the carriage bolt. If necessary, one can use the nail-in-a-hole thru
the washer for turning resistance. Generally in that case I'll also
plug the original hole w/ a harder wood insert for the new bolt
shoulders to have something to bite into.
Was sorta' figuring the deck or similar would be application; since most
is either treated or cedar or other very soft woods, the holes don't
tend to last long before do get rounded over. A piece of fir or some
handy hardwood can work for the purpose w/o too much effort.
But, the 'cheap 'n cheery' way is to simply go to the machine bolt, agreed.
--
noname87
thought of.
Since some of the nuts are recessed into the wood, I will need to try
several of these ideas. If I can remove the nut, I can use a hex bolt
or counter bore the hole to get to fresh wood. Since these are
galvanized carriage bolt, most are not rusted.
Bob F
If the bolt sticks far out of the nut, you could hold the threads with
vise-grips while you turn the nut. Then cut off the damaged end threads with a
hacksaw before you try to remove the nut. The nut will straighten out the
threads at the cut.
Bob F
Or, try a wrench on two extra nuts tightened together on the end to hold the
bolt.
Steve B
"Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ipsa4l$se5$1...@dont-email.me...
They make some very nice bolts with round heads like carriage bolts, and a
hex or Allen or star depression on top.
Steve
Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide
Evan
> "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
@Steve:
If it doesn't have a plain rounded head with a square collar/neck
below it,
it is no longer a carriage bolt -- it becomes a very large "machine
screw"
at that point once you can use some sort of tool on the head of the
fastener...
~~ Evan
Evan
@OP:
Dude, it sounds like the wood on your dock supports is starting
to get mushy and rotten around the carriage bolts...
If this is a dock you take apart every year to store, you could
salvage what you have by installing some kind of metal guide
tube for the bolts into the wood with epoxy to prevent further
rot...
You could epoxy the bolts in place but depending on how your
dock is put together that might make taking it apart impossible...
The best way to remove stuck nuts off bolts you can replace
is to use an oxy-acetylene torch and burn them off if you have
one and know how to use it properly...
~~ Evan
Fake ID
dadiOH <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>noname87 wrote:
>> I have several 1/2" carriage bolts that I can not tighten because the
>> head of the bolts rotates. Is there a trick to removing these bolts? I
>> suspect I could cut slots in the head of the bolt or in the body of
>> the screw or cut the nut off. Any other ideas?
>
>> Once I get them out, what is the best way to fix the problem?
>
>hole (sort of like "T" nuts) and which have a square hole for the carriage
>bolt neck.
Torque washers, presumably.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/torque-washers
I've never seen one in person, but they appeared in the mkfeelys catalog
that was part of the junk mail barrage after my first HF online order
some years ago. I wish I'd known about them earlier.
m
Smitty Two
no-...@sonic.net (Fake ID) wrote:
The only thing one really needs to know about carriage bolts is that
they're the stupidest fastener ever invented. The best way to fix the
problem is to use some other fastener.
jamesgangnc
> In article <4dc252c3$0$10526$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
> no-s...@sonic.net (Fake ID) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <4dc13f34$0$29521$882e7...@usenet-news.net>,
> > dadiOH <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > >noname87 wrote:
> > >> I have several 1/2" carriage bolts that I can not tighten because the
> > >> head of the bolts rotates. Is there a trick to removing these bolts? I
> > >> suspect I could cut slots in the head of the bolt or in the body of
> > >> the screw or cut the nut off. Any other ideas?
>
> > >> Once I get them out, what is the best way to fix the problem?
>
> > >2. Get some of the little steel jobbies with prongs that hammer into the
> > >hole (sort of like "T" nuts) and which have a square hole for the carriage
> > >bolt neck.
>
> > Torque washers, presumably.
> >http://www.mcfeelys.com/torque-washers
> > I've never seen one in person, but they appeared in the mkfeelys catalog
> > that was part of the junk mail barrage after my first HF online order
> > some years ago. I wish I'd known about them earlier.
>
> > m
>
> The only thing one really needs to know about carriage bolts is that
> they're the stupidest fastener ever invented. The best way to fix the
>
> - Show quoted text -
I use them all the time in pt lumber. You just need to make sure the
hole is just the right size so the square part under the head is
forced into the wood.
But I think they are orginally designed to be used in metal stuff with
a square hole so that the carriage bolt is held properly. My guess is
they originally had a specific application on horse drawn carriages.
dpb
...
> But I think they are orginally designed to be used in metal stuff with
> a square hole so that the carriage bolt is held properly. My guess is
> they originally had a specific application on horse drawn carriages.
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!!! :)
Of course, they were carried over in a lot of early horseless carriages,
farm equipment and other applications, too. They smooth, clean head is
of great value in some applications as well as simply the appearance.
--
Harry K
They work good in wood _for the first use_, i.e., tightening. The
problem arises when one wants to remove them.
One of the common places they were/are found is in the bed of carts,
wagons, etc to give a smooth floor so stuff slides out and a shovel
doesn't catch on the bolt head.
Harry K
dpb
...
> wagons, etc to give a smooth floor so stuff slides out and a shovel
> doesn't catch on the bolt head.
...
The scoop _still_ catches... :) (even though not so badly/often)
Plow bolts are the true answer there.
--
DerbyDad03
Carriage bolts also have better aerodynamic properties than hex head
bolts. Not as good as elevator bolts, but certainly better than hex
head.
When using hex head bolts and aerodymics need to be considered, always
ensure that a point faces into the wind, not a flat side.
Jon Danniken
> Harry K wrote:
>> dpb wrote:
>>> jamesgangnc wrote:
>>> ...
>>
>>>> But I think they are orginally designed to be used in metal stuff
>>>> with a square hole so that the carriage bolt is held properly. My
>>>> guess is they originally had a specific application on horse drawn
>>>> carriages.
>>
>>> Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!!! :)
>>
>>> Of course, they were carried over in a lot of early horseless
>>> carriages, farm equipment and other applications, too. They smooth,
>>> clean head is of great value in some applications as well as simply
>>> the appearance.
>>
>>
>>
>> problem arises when one wants to remove them.
>>
>> One of the common places they were/are found is in the bed of carts,
>> wagons, etc to give a smooth floor so stuff slides out and a shovel
>> doesn't catch on the bolt head.
>>
>
> bolts. Not as good as elevator bolts, but certainly better than hex
> head.
>
> When using hex head bolts and aerodymics need to be considered, always
> ensure that a point faces into the wind, not a flat side.
They are also useful for secure installations where one side of the fastener
will be exposed to a non-secured location, such as on a pet door.
Jon
dpb
Of course, problem w/ a plow bolt in many of those applications is that
the thickness of the metal was/is not enough to allow the necessary
countersink; hence the carriage bolt w/ the bearing surface of the head
as least obtrusive alternative.
--
DerbyDad03
Actually, an elevator bolt would be even less obtrusive. However,
carriage bolts do come in much larger sizes than elevator bolts, so,
as usual, it really depends on the application.
dpb
Thinner than the round carriage bolt, sure, but not countersunk as a
plow bolt is in a plow share. A scoop could still catch the edge of an
elevator bolt.
Indeed, the application is the key; I was speaking of the wagon bed
usage of the previous poster re: common usage of a carriage bolt and
commenting that, _IF_ (the proverbial big if) there were the thickness
for the countersink a plow bolt could be make totally flush w/ the floor
(or even slightly under) and avoid the scoop catch problem entirely.
Never seen it, however (altho certainly have a multitude of plow bolts
on the planters and other tillage implements even though w/ no- and
low-till practice of today the number of different implements that
actually turn the soil is far fewer than used to be 30 years ago)...
--
DerbyDad03
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't know squat about plow shares, but I have used Grade 8 fender
washers and hex bolts to "counter sink" (read: "dent") boards so that
the elevator bolts will be flush with the surface.
If the wood is too hard the elevator bolts tend to break before
"counter sinking" themselves, but a hex bolt and Grade 8 fender washer
will usually get the job done.
The Daring Dufas
>
> For the recessed nuts - drill along the bolt / nut deep enough you can
> crack the nut with the _sharp_ cold chisel and hammer.
>
> Or at the head drill the head off the bolt. (center punch and bigger
> bit (size of bolt).
>
I've used a Dremel tool with a burr and cut slots down both sides of a
nut on a head stud holding a manifold on an Onan flat four engine. A tap
from a cold chisel and the nut comes right off without damaging the
stud. The Dremel Tool, one of the worlds greatest inventions. :-)
TDD
noname87
supplier for the 1/2" size. Any recommendations?
Robert Green
news:ipv5i7$jii$1...@dont-email.me...
Yep. Until I bought a cordless Dremel kit with a boatload of accessories, I
didn't have any idea how useful it could be. The cut-off disks and the
little wire brushes do an awful lot of work around here. The screw
extractor and matching drill get a lot of use. So do the sanding drums and
the soft bristle brush which makes cleaning gunked up mouse rollers a snap.
Just got a flex extension for mine. The only gripe I have about the
cordless models is that the switch is designed
HI OFF LO
when it should be
OFF LO HI.
Sometimes it takes my twitching fingers two or three tries to get it to the
center OFF position. Recently upgraded to the LiON model. Much better
performance than the old NiCad unit, especially if it's been lying around
for a while unused. I always had to recharge the NiCad unit before use but
the LiON model always has enough charge left to handle at least a three
minute job. Makes a difference.
--
Bobby G.
Smitty Two
"Robert Green" <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote:
> The only gripe I have about the
> cordless models is that the switch is designed
>
> HI OFF LO
>
> when it should be
>
> OFF LO HI.
If it's a slide switch, that's the way slide switches are made. Products
aren't manufactured from scratch so much as they're assembled from
off-the-shelf components.
I was wrestling with switch logic this week, for an oven control unit
I'm designing, so this is fresh in my mind. I'm using a rotary selector
and wasn't sure whether to make it OFF, MONITOR, CONTROL, or MONITOR,
OFF, CONTROL.
There are clear advantages to each, but after some mulling I put OFF in
the center. Disadvantage is that the operator has to go through OFF if
changing from MONITOR to CONTROL. Advantages are
1: It'll be easier to see from across the room (or even outside the room
by looking through a window) whether the unit is set up for MONITOR or
CONTROL.
2: It'll be much less likely that the operator will carelessly choose
MONITOR when he meant to choose CONTROL.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
wrote:
3: Take the stop out of the switch and let it spin all the way 'round.