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Re: Why did the UK change from round pin to square pin plugs?
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hgt
Jun 24, 2022, 8:54:09 PM6/24/22
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On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 09:34:57 +1000, Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 10:35:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:21:28 -0700 (PDT), Animal <tabb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, 23 June 2022 at 09:49:30 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT), Animal <tabb...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 10:20:06 UTC+1, The Natural
>> Philosopher wrote:
>> >> >> On 22/06/2022 10:07, jon wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 09:52:14 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Why did the UK change from round pin to square pin plugs?
>> Fuses and
>> >> >> >> sleeves could have been added to the round ones just as easily.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > To keep people in work.
>> >> >> No. Because it is easier to manufacture a true pair of self-wiping
>> >> >> contacts that cover a wide area, against a flat bar, than against
>> a
>> >> >> round pin.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the 13A design was all about safety, not jobs for the boys. That
>> came
>> >> >> later, with the labour governments.
>> >> >
>> >> >There were multiple reasons for the move to BS1363 square pin
>> system.
>> >> >The old round pin system was recognised in the 40s to be thoroughly
>> inconvenient, inadequate for increasing numbers of appliances, unsafe
>> and frankly insane. It was a whole pile of unnecessary problems by
>> design, plus there were lots of unsafe plugs, sockets, adaptors etc in
>> use.
>> >> >
>> >> >At the heart of the square pin system was the ring circuit. It
>> enabled unlimited sockets to be fitted on just one ring of cable, on 1,
>> 2 or 4 fuses. This was a huge money and material saving over a round
>> pin radial setup with the same number of sockets, which mattered after
>> the war. Also old 15A radials could be upgraded to add unlimited
>> sockets relatively cheaply.
>> >> >
>> >> >To put existing round pin plugs on such circuits is not safe. A
>> lamp with a bellwire or speaker wire mains lead on a 2A plug & socket
>> on a 32A fused ring is not ok. If the same sockets were used, this
>> would be the inevitable common result. A different plug system was
>> needed.
>> >> >
>> >> >The new plug system was designed to be far safer than the crazy
>> round pin system. It also had the desired effect of gradually taking
>> all those round pin hazards out of service. If you've ever used round
>> pin kit you'll know how bad it often was. Kicking plugs to get the pins
>> to make contact was common practice for example. There were wooden
>> plugs & adaptors, some with touchable live tubes. Irons & heaters on BC
>> plugs were common etc.
>> >> >
>> >> >IMHO it's time today to revisit the system to improve it a bit. 2
>> pin BS1363 variant moulded-only plugs could be added, enabling use of 3
>> appliances per single faceplate, 4 or 6 per double.
>> >> I don't disagree with what you say. I like the system.
>> >>
>> >> However, if the argument was as persuasive as this, why did other
>> >> countries (with minor exceptions) not follow and why is Schuko and
>> its
>> >> variants so widely used today?
>> >
>> >The ring system has clear advantages on cost & safety, yet close to
>> no-one outside the UK understands how it works or what its upsides are.
>> I find that strange but there it is.
>> >Our plugs are bulky compared to most countries, and using radials they
>> don't need the plug fuse, so ours don't suit radial systems
>> particularly well. And ours are a hazard to feet.
>
>> I am still finding it difficult to follow the concept of radial
>> circuits. If there are 10 sockets in the kitchen, does each have its
>> own cable run to the consumer unit and its own fuse there? Do all the
>> cables run in a single conduit of does each run separately? This
>> would require a maze of cabling and a vast number of fuses.
>>
>> I suppose the way round it would be to have one main socket and lots
>> of extensions, but this would be less safe than our system. How would
>> the user know which was the main socket for high current appliances?
>> Two appliances could bring down a 16 amp fuse.
>
> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a ton
> of breakers.
> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that point
It is nothing like that low.
> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 10:35:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:21:28 -0700 (PDT), Animal <tabb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, 23 June 2022 at 09:49:30 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT), Animal <tabb...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 10:20:06 UTC+1, The Natural
>> Philosopher wrote:
>> >> >> On 22/06/2022 10:07, jon wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 09:52:14 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Why did the UK change from round pin to square pin plugs?
>> Fuses and
>> >> >> >> sleeves could have been added to the round ones just as easily.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > To keep people in work.
>> >> >> No. Because it is easier to manufacture a true pair of self-wiping
>> >> >> contacts that cover a wide area, against a flat bar, than against
>> a
>> >> >> round pin.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the 13A design was all about safety, not jobs for the boys. That
>> came
>> >> >> later, with the labour governments.
>> >> >
>> >> >There were multiple reasons for the move to BS1363 square pin
>> system.
>> >> >The old round pin system was recognised in the 40s to be thoroughly
>> inconvenient, inadequate for increasing numbers of appliances, unsafe
>> and frankly insane. It was a whole pile of unnecessary problems by
>> design, plus there were lots of unsafe plugs, sockets, adaptors etc in
>> use.
>> >> >
>> >> >At the heart of the square pin system was the ring circuit. It
>> enabled unlimited sockets to be fitted on just one ring of cable, on 1,
>> 2 or 4 fuses. This was a huge money and material saving over a round
>> pin radial setup with the same number of sockets, which mattered after
>> the war. Also old 15A radials could be upgraded to add unlimited
>> sockets relatively cheaply.
>> >> >
>> >> >To put existing round pin plugs on such circuits is not safe. A
>> lamp with a bellwire or speaker wire mains lead on a 2A plug & socket
>> on a 32A fused ring is not ok. If the same sockets were used, this
>> would be the inevitable common result. A different plug system was
>> needed.
>> >> >
>> >> >The new plug system was designed to be far safer than the crazy
>> round pin system. It also had the desired effect of gradually taking
>> all those round pin hazards out of service. If you've ever used round
>> pin kit you'll know how bad it often was. Kicking plugs to get the pins
>> to make contact was common practice for example. There were wooden
>> plugs & adaptors, some with touchable live tubes. Irons & heaters on BC
>> plugs were common etc.
>> >> >
>> >> >IMHO it's time today to revisit the system to improve it a bit. 2
>> pin BS1363 variant moulded-only plugs could be added, enabling use of 3
>> appliances per single faceplate, 4 or 6 per double.
>> >> I don't disagree with what you say. I like the system.
>> >>
>> >> However, if the argument was as persuasive as this, why did other
>> >> countries (with minor exceptions) not follow and why is Schuko and
>> its
>> >> variants so widely used today?
>> >
>> >The ring system has clear advantages on cost & safety, yet close to
>> no-one outside the UK understands how it works or what its upsides are.
>> I find that strange but there it is.
>> >Our plugs are bulky compared to most countries, and using radials they
>> don't need the plug fuse, so ours don't suit radial systems
>> particularly well. And ours are a hazard to feet.
>
>> I am still finding it difficult to follow the concept of radial
>> circuits. If there are 10 sockets in the kitchen, does each have its
>> own cable run to the consumer unit and its own fuse there? Do all the
>> cables run in a single conduit of does each run separately? This
>> would require a maze of cabling and a vast number of fuses.
>>
>> I suppose the way round it would be to have one main socket and lots
>> of extensions, but this would be less safe than our system. How would
>> the user know which was the main socket for high current appliances?
>> Two appliances could bring down a 16 amp fuse.
>
> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a ton
> of breakers.
> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that point
It is nothing like that low.
Jon Foster
Jun 25, 2022, 1:14:12 AM6/25/22
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Peeler
Jun 25, 2022, 4:35:06 AM6/25/22
to
On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 10:53:58 +1000, hgt, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
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He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>
hgt
Jun 25, 2022, 10:25:32 AM6/25/22
to
On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 22:17:47 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <c0a64f08-6d9d-4ae5...@googlegroups.com>,
> at
> place. Suggesting trips are commonplace.
In fact trips are not commonplace in the USA or Canada.
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <c0a64f08-6d9d-4ae5...@googlegroups.com>,
> Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a
>> ton of breakers.
>> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that point
>
> It's interesting that the panel is often situated in a very easy to get
>> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a
>> ton of breakers.
>> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that point
>
> at
> place. Suggesting trips are commonplace.
In fact trips are not commonplace in the USA or Canada.
Peeler
Jun 25, 2022, 11:10:45 AM6/25/22
to
On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 00:25:19 +1000, hgt, better known as cantankerous
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>
Dave Plowman (News)
Jun 26, 2022, 10:30:16 AM6/26/22
to
In article <op.1obo0...@pvr2.lan>,
You live there, then? Aren't you Wodney under yet another alias?
Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
wall if you rarely needed to access it?
--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
wall if you rarely needed to access it?
--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
hgt
Jun 26, 2022, 3:26:04 PM6/26/22
to
On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 00:26:26 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
we can ask others in different countries about how often they
see stuff like that happening.
> Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
> wall if you rarely needed to access it?
Why do you believe that that is common there ? Have you lived there ?
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.1obo0...@pvr2.lan>,
> hgt <tf...@nurk.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 22:17:47 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > In article <c0a64f08-6d9d-4ae5...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a
>> >> ton of breakers.
>> >> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that
>> point
>> >
>> > It's interesting that the panel is often situated in a very easy to
>> get
>> > at
>> > place. Suggesting trips are commonplace.
>
>> In fact trips are not commonplace in the USA or Canada.
> You live there, then?
Don't need to. We have this funky system called usenet where
> In article <op.1obo0...@pvr2.lan>,
> hgt <tf...@nurk.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Jun 2022 22:17:47 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > In article <c0a64f08-6d9d-4ae5...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Take a look at a domestic American 'breaker panel'. Yep, they have a
>> >> ton of breakers.
>> >> I think they get 2 or 3 sockets per radial, but not sure on that
>> point
>> >
>> > It's interesting that the panel is often situated in a very easy to
>> get
>> > at
>> > place. Suggesting trips are commonplace.
>
>> In fact trips are not commonplace in the USA or Canada.
> You live there, then?
we can ask others in different countries about how often they
see stuff like that happening.
> Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
> wall if you rarely needed to access it?
Peeler
Jun 26, 2022, 3:47:51 PM6/26/22
to
On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 05:25:56 +1000, hgt, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Dave Plowman (News)
Jun 27, 2022, 10:35:37 AM6/27/22
to
In article <op.1odxl...@pvr2.lan>,
> > Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
> > wall if you rarely needed to access it?
> Why do you believe that that is common there ? Have you lived there ?
Thought you knew how to use usenet, etc. You lied about that too, then?
--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*
hgt <tf...@nurk.com> wrote:
> > You live there, then?
> Don't need to. We have this funky system called usenet where
> we can ask others in different countries about how often they
> see stuff like that happening.
Do they tell the same lies as you, Wodney?
> > You live there, then?
> Don't need to. We have this funky system called usenet where
> we can ask others in different countries about how often they
> see stuff like that happening.
> > Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living room
> > wall if you rarely needed to access it?
> Why do you believe that that is common there ? Have you lived there ?
--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*
hgt
Jun 28, 2022, 12:59:13 AM6/28/22
to
On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 00:32:06 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.1odxl...@pvr2.lan>,
> hgt <tf...@nurk.com> wrote:
>> > You live there, then?
>
>> Don't need to. We have this funky system called usenet where
>> we can ask others in different countries about how often they
>> see stuff like that happening.
>
> Do they tell the same lies as you ?
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.1odxl...@pvr2.lan>,
> hgt <tf...@nurk.com> wrote:
>> > You live there, then?
>
>> Don't need to. We have this funky system called usenet where
>> we can ask others in different countries about how often they
>> see stuff like that happening.
>
>
>> > Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living
>> room
>> > wall if you rarely needed to access it?
>
>> Why do you believe that that is common there ? Have you lived there ?
>
> Thought you knew how to use usenet, etc. You lied about that too, then?
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>> > Just why would you stick a breaker panel in the middle of a living
>> room
>> > wall if you rarely needed to access it?
>
>> Why do you believe that that is common there ? Have you lived there ?
>
> Thought you knew how to use usenet, etc. You lied about that too, then?
Peeler
Jun 28, 2022, 3:26:25 AM6/28/22
to
On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:59:03 +1000, hgt, better known as cantankerous
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
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Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 88-year-old senile Australian
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
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