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Armored/BX Cable question
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Roanin
Dec 4, 2011, 7:13:19 PM12/4/11
to
I recently acquired a lot of older BX/armored cable. Many have a little
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?
Roanin
aluminum wire inside which I see wrapped around the ends of the cable on
some of them where they were taken out of service.Some of the cables have
white, green and black wires in addition to this aluminum wire, many are
just white, black and the little wire. What is the purpose of this little
aluminum wire ? Is this a primitive ground or bonding wire?
Roanin
Message has been deleted
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Dec 4, 2011, 7:45:56 PM12/4/11
to
the armor. The screw in the box connector then contacts that drain wire to
make a solid ground. It's not as good as a conductor-sized ground but it
works.
RBM
Dec 4, 2011, 8:06:56 PM12/4/11
to
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Dec 4, 2011, 8:58:30 PM12/4/11
to
Message has been deleted
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 1:18:03 AM12/5/11
to
On 12/4/2011 10:32 PM, j...@myplace.com wrote:
>> It is an internal bond wire and the function is to shunt out any
>> inductive component introduced by the spiral armor. It is doing it's
>> job on every wrap. There is no need to terminate it but guys do have
>> creative ways to do it anyway.
>
> I always wrap them around the outside of the armor and then clamp the
> cable against it. It's not a "real" ground, but it does a pretty good
> job of grounding along with the armor itself. The old BX without that
> wire would heat up if there was a short in the system. You'd think
> that steel armor would make a good ground, but there is a lot of
> resistance in them. Several times when I was doing electrical work, I
> ran into a hot cable. Once the cable was so hot it was charring wood
> and was not far from causing a fire. That strand eliminated that
> problem.
>
> The OP said he has some with a green wire and that alum strand. I've
> never seen that. Greenfield was always sold as the armor alone, qand
> you would add your own wires including a green one, but that strand
> was never included. (Not that I ever saw).
>
BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable. The old BX cable has a paper or fiber filler where the new
MC cable has a tough plastic inner wrap. I run MC cable all the time.
TDD
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 19:41:18 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500, "Roanin"<roani...@live.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>> On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:13:19 -0500, "Roanin"<roani...@live.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> inductive component introduced by the spiral armor. It is doing it's
>> job on every wrap. There is no need to terminate it but guys do have
>> creative ways to do it anyway.
>
> I always wrap them around the outside of the armor and then clamp the
> cable against it. It's not a "real" ground, but it does a pretty good
> job of grounding along with the armor itself. The old BX without that
> wire would heat up if there was a short in the system. You'd think
> that steel armor would make a good ground, but there is a lot of
> resistance in them. Several times when I was doing electrical work, I
> ran into a hot cable. Once the cable was so hot it was charring wood
> and was not far from causing a fire. That strand eliminated that
> problem.
>
> The OP said he has some with a green wire and that alum strand. I've
> never seen that. Greenfield was always sold as the armor alone, qand
> you would add your own wires including a green one, but that strand
> was never included. (Not that I ever saw).
>
BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
is MC cable. The old BX cable has a paper or fiber filler where the new
MC cable has a tough plastic inner wrap. I run MC cable all the time.
TDD
Doug Miller
Dec 5, 2011, 7:08:43 AM12/5/11
to
On 12/5/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
> BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
> is MC cable.
Nonsense. Armored cable (BX) is still permitted under the 2011 NEC. See
>
> BX cable was outlawed years ago for safety reasons and the replacement
> is MC cable.
Article 320.
Roanin
Dec 5, 2011, 7:39:12 AM12/5/11
to
"Doug Miller" <doug_at_mi...@example.com> wrote in message
news:jbic8d$3nk$1...@dont-email.me...
Is this BX?
R
Message has been deleted
Stormin Mormon
Dec 5, 2011, 8:04:26 AM12/5/11
to
Ideally, the ground carries zero amps. I hope you found out what was wrong,
and repaired it.
<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:4shod7pv0jj92a9ij...@4ax.com...
and repaired it.
<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:4shod7pv0jj92a9ij...@4ax.com...
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 10:23:19 AM12/5/11
to
the supply houses have carried BX for years. The only thing you will
find at the big box stores and electrical suppliers is MC cable. The old
BX with paper insulation vanished from the supply chain a long time ago.
I use Greenfield conduit all the time on commercial refrigeration
equipment and for any application where I need to protect loose wires of
any kind for short distances. If I use Greenfield/flexible metal conduit
for a longer run, I add a ground wire and bonding grounds at either end
for my peace of mind and the electrical inspectors happiness. ^_^
TDD
Message has been deleted
Stormin Mormon
Dec 5, 2011, 11:11:26 AM12/5/11
to
It sounds pretty clear to me, that you saved a couple deaths, that time. And
that the house really was in need of serious rewiring. But, you did the best
you could with the matter. And I'm figuring that you'll be blessed for your
honest efforts. Good on you, mate!
<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:vtmpd79cc9t0tg59a...@4ax.com...
> On this particular job, it was beyond a repair. It involved a
> complete rewiring. They had this one 14-2 Bx (the old cloth covered
> shit), feeding an entire apartment. There were two plug fuses in the
> box. One fuse for the upper apartment, one for the lower one. The
> fuses should have been 15A, they had 30A fuses in both slots. It was
> the Bx feeding the upper that nearly caught fire. The sucker was so
> hot the plaster wall was warm to touch, and thats the old wood lathe
> and plaster walls. I actually identified the run of the wire by
> feeling the walls for warm plaster. At one point I told the owner to
> call the fire dept. I smelled smoke and seriously thought the was a
> fire inside the walls. He refused, saying they would condemn the
> place (it was a very run down building in a bad neighborhood). After
> cutting the power to the whole building, I proceeded to rip out
> several large sections of wall to expose the wire and be sure there
> was no fire. Whereever this bx touched wood, the wood was charred. I
> actually think it was hot enough to be glowing red on the armor, the
> wire inside was all charred and the insulation fell right off.
>
> I ran several romex cables up thru the same holes and got a few
> temporary outlets working for the guy that day. The lower apartment
> was vacant, so I used both the fuses for the upper apt. with the
> proper size fuses. The next day I returned and installed a breaker
> box, and ran several circuits to that upper apt. I would have
> preferred replacing everything but the guy said he could not afford a
> complete rewire of everything, so I did reuse some of the old bx in
> the walls to the individual lights and stuff. They were still usable,
> and now there were 4 breakers for each apt.
>
> The only thing is that he said he could not afford to rewire the lower
> apt. Said he would call me back sometime, but I never heard from the
> guy again. So, that lower apt was running off one 15A breaker when I
> left.
>
> I have a feeling that if I had gotten there an hour later, that
> building would have been on fire. When he called me, he said the
> lights were getting dim, then bright again, and would go off
> completely at times, and his refrigerator was not working, and said
> something smelled hot. Thats when I suggested calling the fire dept
> (the first time). He refused, so I told him to shut off the power,
> but he said he did not know how. So, I went there almost immediately,
> and that was probably a real good thing. When I opened that fuse box,
> that cloth covered wire has the wax boiling on it (that stuff had wax
> as part of the cloth insulation). That was one of the scariest wiring
> jobs I ever encountered, because I just was not sure if there was a
> fire or not, and the owner was not cooperative. Actually he seemed to
> be fairly intoxicated.
>
>
that the house really was in need of serious rewiring. But, you did the best
you could with the matter. And I'm figuring that you'll be blessed for your
honest efforts. Good on you, mate!
<j...@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:vtmpd79cc9t0tg59a...@4ax.com...
> On this particular job, it was beyond a repair. It involved a
> complete rewiring. They had this one 14-2 Bx (the old cloth covered
> shit), feeding an entire apartment. There were two plug fuses in the
> box. One fuse for the upper apartment, one for the lower one. The
> fuses should have been 15A, they had 30A fuses in both slots. It was
> the Bx feeding the upper that nearly caught fire. The sucker was so
> hot the plaster wall was warm to touch, and thats the old wood lathe
> and plaster walls. I actually identified the run of the wire by
> feeling the walls for warm plaster. At one point I told the owner to
> call the fire dept. I smelled smoke and seriously thought the was a
> fire inside the walls. He refused, saying they would condemn the
> place (it was a very run down building in a bad neighborhood). After
> cutting the power to the whole building, I proceeded to rip out
> several large sections of wall to expose the wire and be sure there
> was no fire. Whereever this bx touched wood, the wood was charred. I
> actually think it was hot enough to be glowing red on the armor, the
> wire inside was all charred and the insulation fell right off.
>
> I ran several romex cables up thru the same holes and got a few
> temporary outlets working for the guy that day. The lower apartment
> was vacant, so I used both the fuses for the upper apt. with the
> proper size fuses. The next day I returned and installed a breaker
> box, and ran several circuits to that upper apt. I would have
> preferred replacing everything but the guy said he could not afford a
> complete rewire of everything, so I did reuse some of the old bx in
> the walls to the individual lights and stuff. They were still usable,
> and now there were 4 breakers for each apt.
>
> The only thing is that he said he could not afford to rewire the lower
> apt. Said he would call me back sometime, but I never heard from the
> guy again. So, that lower apt was running off one 15A breaker when I
> left.
>
> I have a feeling that if I had gotten there an hour later, that
> building would have been on fire. When he called me, he said the
> lights were getting dim, then bright again, and would go off
> completely at times, and his refrigerator was not working, and said
> something smelled hot. Thats when I suggested calling the fire dept
> (the first time). He refused, so I told him to shut off the power,
> but he said he did not know how. So, I went there almost immediately,
> and that was probably a real good thing. When I opened that fuse box,
> that cloth covered wire has the wax boiling on it (that stuff had wax
> as part of the cloth insulation). That was one of the scariest wiring
> jobs I ever encountered, because I just was not sure if there was a
> fire or not, and the owner was not cooperative. Actually he seemed to
> be fairly intoxicated.
>
>
N8N
Dec 5, 2011, 11:13:48 AM12/5/11
to
On Dec 5, 7:41 am, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
> Correct.
>
> BX is a brand name for type AC cable. The bonding strip is relatively
> new but still decades ago. If you find some WWII vintage or older it
> will not have the bond strip. I think the cut in was in the 50s or
> early 60s.\
>
> The AC cable with a green wire is HCF cable, that meets the
> requirement for redundant grounding in patient care areas.
> MC cable has the green wire, the plastic inner wrap, no bond strip but
> the armor is not suitable for bonding unless it is the new style MC
> that has the large bare bond wire in it.
>
> http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2006/09/new-form-of-mc-cable-crosses-app...
I used to own a house that was built in 1948 or 1949 and the original
BX remaining, while not having a separate ground conductor, did have a
bonding strip.
nate
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
>
> BX is a brand name for type AC cable. The bonding strip is relatively
> new but still decades ago. If you find some WWII vintage or older it
> will not have the bond strip. I think the cut in was in the 50s or
> early 60s.\
>
> The AC cable with a green wire is HCF cable, that meets the
> requirement for redundant grounding in patient care areas.
> MC cable has the green wire, the plastic inner wrap, no bond strip but
> the armor is not suitable for bonding unless it is the new style MC
> that has the large bare bond wire in it.
>
> http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2006/09/new-form-of-mc-cable-crosses-app...
I used to own a house that was built in 1948 or 1949 and the original
BX remaining, while not having a separate ground conductor, did have a
bonding strip.
nate
Doug Miller
Dec 5, 2011, 11:16:32 AM12/5/11
to
BX with paper wrapped conductors.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 1:27:36 PM12/5/11
to
On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
> and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
> rules.
>
> Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
> the only legal cable in patient care facilities.
>
> The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
> location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
> on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
> connector.
>
> http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.
TDD
> and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
> rules.
>
> Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
> the only legal cable in patient care facilities.
>
> The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
> location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
> on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
> connector.
>
> http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
Here in Birmingham the city electrical code is stricter than in the
county for some reason and often stricter than the NEC. I'm telling
you the truth about BX around here, I haven't seen any new BX in years.
TDD
Message has been deleted
Evan
Dec 5, 2011, 4:32:44 PM12/5/11
to
On Dec 5, 1:45 pm, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
>
>
>
> <the-daring-du...@stinky.net> wrote:
> Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
> these days.
You see MC cabling installed in commercial buildings... It is used
above
drop ceilings which serve as open plenum returns...
It is preferred in larger cities in all applications as rodents can't
chew through
it and cause short circuits and fires inside of sealed wall
cavities...
In NYC all wiring has to be in conduit or type MC cable...
~~ Evan
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
>
>
>
> <the-daring-du...@stinky.net> wrote:
> >On 12/5/2011 11:28 AM, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:
> >> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> >> <the-daring-du...@stinky.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> these days.
You see MC cabling installed in commercial buildings... It is used
above
drop ceilings which serve as open plenum returns...
It is preferred in larger cities in all applications as rodents can't
chew through
it and cause short circuits and fires inside of sealed wall
cavities...
In NYC all wiring has to be in conduit or type MC cable...
~~ Evan
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 5:43:13 PM12/5/11
to
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
been made (at least in North America) for over a decade. TypeAC and MC
cable is the replacement, and is almost universally ALUMINUM, not
galvanized steel.
Type AC cable will always have a 16 AWG aluminum bond wire under the
armor, and the individual insulated conductors will each have a kraft
paper wrap.
Type MC cable does not contain either of these items and has an
overall plastic wrap over the insulated
circuit conductors and a continuous aluminum bonding strip..
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 5:45:03 PM12/5/11
to
On 12/5/2011 12:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
any of the ends so I could see if it was really BX. I just called one
of the largest electrical suppliers in the state and the city sales guy
told me that BX is no longer sold by them and hasn't been in inventory
for a very long time. As far as armored cable goes, it's all over the
place except in the form of BX.
TDD
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:27:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> Do you work around hospitals? That is the usual place you see AC cable
> these days.
I've seen MC in hospitals that had different color paint but didn't see
> these days.
any of the ends so I could see if it was really BX. I just called one
of the largest electrical suppliers in the state and the city sales guy
told me that BX is no longer sold by them and hasn't been in inventory
for a very long time. As far as armored cable goes, it's all over the
place except in the form of BX.
TDD
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 5:46:19 PM12/5/11
to
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 07:39:12 -0500, "Roanin" <roani...@live.com>
wrote:
If it has no bare ground conductor it is BX. If it does, and the
ground conductor is aluminum it is type AC. If it does, and the bare
ground conductor is copper, it could be type AC or BX. If it is
galvanized steel armor it is MOST LIKELY BX.
If it is Type AC it passes NEC 2011. If it is ungrounded BX it does
not.
It is definitely not Type MC because type MC does not have a paper or
Raffia wrap.
wrote:
ground conductor is aluminum it is type AC. If it does, and the bare
ground conductor is copper, it could be type AC or BX. If it is
galvanized steel armor it is MOST LIKELY BX.
If it is Type AC it passes NEC 2011. If it is ungrounded BX it does
not.
It is definitely not Type MC because type MC does not have a paper or
Raffia wrap.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 5:51:32 PM12/5/11
to
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 5:53:18 PM12/5/11
to
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:28:02 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
><the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote:
>
>On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
><the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote:
>
>They still make AC cable, it still has paper wrapping the conductors
>and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
>rules.
>
>Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
>the only legal cable in patient care facilities.
>
>The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
>location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
>on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
>connector.
>
>http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
and the type AC cable MUST have either a bare or green insulated
>and it is legal everywhere unless you have an AHJ that writes his own
>rules.
>
>Most of the time you will see it in HCF (hospital) style because it is
>the only legal cable in patient care facilities.
>
>The only ramification of the paper wrapper is that makes this a dry
>location only wiring method. You also need the red insulating bushings
>on AC cable. They are not required on MC if you use the appropriate
>connector.
>
>http://www.afcweb.com/pdf_2011/p32_ac.pdf
ground wire. Current Type AC (not HCF) has a bare ALUMINUM ground.
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 6:18:34 PM12/5/11
to
division
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 6:22:27 PM12/5/11
to
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 6:26:39 PM12/5/11
to
the same aluminum bonding wire that's been in type AC cable for years
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 6:31:59 PM12/5/11
to
recognized by the NEC. Since it's never been a NEC designation, how can
it be not allowed
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 6:59:35 PM12/5/11
to
turned from old BX cable to modern AC cable. The only armored cable
with conductors already in it that I've installed in recent years has
been MC cable and I run that stuff all the time. I haven't been part
of a very large electrical project for 5 years or so and things could
not have changed that much in that amount of time. I've done my share
of electrical work on Army Core of Engineers projects including schools,
hospitals and multi story buildings and haven't seen any real drastic
changes to the NEC in the past four decades. Over the years more
emphasis has been placed on grounding equipment and bonding grounds
throughout a power system. Which is why BX went away.
TDD
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 7:05:56 PM12/5/11
to
of cable, when one particular type (MC ) is acceptable in such a wide
variety of applications
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 7:42:21 PM12/5/11
to
much like Romex.
TDD
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 8:49:47 PM12/5/11
to
The earlier style AC is no longer allowed by code. ALL of the original
"BX" brand cable was the "early" AC type, although not all early "AC"
cable was "BX"
The early "AC" or "BX" cable was galvanized steel wrapped, rubber
insulated, raffia wrapped, with no bare or insulated ground, and no
bonding strip. This cable has not passed code for over a decade, and
has not been made for about half a century.
There are now 2 BASIC types of spiral wound armored cable in use in
North America. There is type "AC" - aluminum sheathed, with either
bare or green insulated ground and no bonding ribbon - with
thermoplastic or PVC insulation and paper or raffia wrap.
There is also type "MC", which does not require the bare or insulated
ground for most applications - but is also available with an insulated
ground - and has a continuous aluminum ribbon "bonding strip" as part
of it's spec. It has a plastic wrap instead of the raffia or paper -
which is the most obvious difference at first glance.
I DO get it.
You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.
tra...@optonline.net
Dec 5, 2011, 9:08:57 PM12/5/11
to
On Dec 5, 8:49 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> You just either don't read too good or you want to be miserable.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Apparently some still refer to it as BX....
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-48-armored-cable/metal-clad-bx-cable-thin-650401.aspx
Metal Clad BX Cable Thin, 14/2 Gauge 50'
Model # 68579222 by Southwire Company®
http://www.homedepot.com
AFC Cable Systems 125 ft. 10-Gauge BX/AC-90 Cable
Model # 1408N32-00
Internet # 202286692
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:31:59 -0500, RBM <r...@live.com> wrote:
> >On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
> >> <doug_at_milmacdot...@example.com> wrote:
> >On 12/5/2011 5:43 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:08:43 -0500, Doug Miller
>
> - Show quoted text -
Apparently some still refer to it as BX....
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-48-armored-cable/metal-clad-bx-cable-thin-650401.aspx
Metal Clad BX Cable Thin, 14/2 Gauge 50'
Model # 68579222 by Southwire Company®
http://www.homedepot.com
AFC Cable Systems 125 ft. 10-Gauge BX/AC-90 Cable
Model # 1408N32-00
Internet # 202286692
Message has been deleted
RBM
Dec 5, 2011, 10:28:46 PM12/5/11
to
AC are still AC, though their properties have evolved over the years.
There is no comparison between AC cable and BX cable, because they are
one in the same.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 5, 2011, 10:59:21 PM12/5/11
to
- the first.
Just because a Chow is a dog doesn't mean all dogs are Chows.BX was
early AC, but not all AC is BX.
I don't think ANY "genuine" BX was made with anything but galvanized
steel, rubber insulation, and Raffia or paper wrap. And no ground.
THAT cable does not meet current code, and has not been made for about
50 years.
The Daring Dufas
Dec 5, 2011, 11:00:05 PM12/5/11
to
On 12/5/2011 8:31 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:45:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> I bet that "MC" was HCF grade AC cable. MC is not legal for patient
> care areas.
A lot of electrical parts come in hospital grade. Heck, a hospital grade
duplex receptacle can cost more than $20.00 where a good contractor
grade may be only a few bucks and a cheap one that meets
specs may cost 59 cents. It's been years since I installed any wiring
in patient rooms in a hospital and that was an Army Core of Engineers
project, everything there was in conduit. The only flex of any kind
was on the light fixtures and I don't recall exactly what type. The
one thing I am sure of is there was no "BX" cable installed on that job. ^_^
TDD
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:45:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> care areas.
A lot of electrical parts come in hospital grade. Heck, a hospital grade
duplex receptacle can cost more than $20.00 where a good contractor
grade may be only a few bucks and a cheap one that meets
specs may cost 59 cents. It's been years since I installed any wiring
in patient rooms in a hospital and that was an Army Core of Engineers
project, everything there was in conduit. The only flex of any kind
was on the light fixtures and I don't recall exactly what type. The
one thing I am sure of is there was no "BX" cable installed on that job. ^_^
TDD
RBM
Dec 6, 2011, 7:19:26 AM12/6/11
to
between BX and AC is ridiculous. GE began making BX cable in 1899. At
the time there was no Nec designation. In 1932 BX and any other similar
cable regardless of who the manufacturer was, was officially designated
as type AC. From that point AC type cables were made differently by a
variety of manufacturers and every one of them changed how the cable was
made through the years depending upon electric code changes, including
the "bonding" strip required in 1959, which you repeatedly and
incorrectly keep calling a ground.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 6, 2011, 5:16:28 PM12/6/11
to
called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground. The bare
ground in current type"ac" cable is generally made of aluminum, and is
actually REQUIRED to be aluminum under at least one part of the code,
so most companies don't make one with a bare copper ground.
The GROUND is a ROUND WIRE - the "bonding strip" is a flat ribbon.
I am NOT confused. But someone is.
RBM
Dec 6, 2011, 6:06:14 PM12/6/11
to
get a freaking code book and look up what you think you know something
about. You'd look less like a moron. Try Nec 320.100 AC cable construction
Doug Miller
Dec 6, 2011, 6:21:40 PM12/6/11
to
On 12/6/2011 6:06 PM, RBM wrote:
> I would suggest, before you spew your usual nonsense, at the very least
> get a freaking code book and look up what you think you know something
> about. You'd look less like a moron. Try Nec 320.100 AC cable construction
Actually, I think the *first* step that "clare" needs to take to avoid
> I would suggest, before you spew your usual nonsense, at the very least
> get a freaking code book and look up what you think you know something
> about. You'd look less like a moron. Try Nec 320.100 AC cable construction
looking like a moron is to stop assuming that the U.S. NEC is identical
to the Canadian CEC.
Message has been deleted
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 6, 2011, 8:25:50 PM12/6/11
to
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:54:44 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
>>called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
>>sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
>>the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
>> Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
>>"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.
>
>
>You have that backward MC is the one that needs a ground wire unless
>it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
>as ground.
>
>From the NEC
>320.100 Construction.
>Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
>have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
>contact with the armor for its entire length.
>
>Handbook commentary
>The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
>conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
>simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
>bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
>equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
>the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
>equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
>insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the “red head”)
>from falling out during rough wiring.
And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.
>On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:16:28 -0500, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>I Incorrectly call it a ground?? Check your facts. I have always
>>called it a bonding strip, which, by the way ALLOWS the metallic
>>sheath to be used as a ground. And that bonding strip is NOT part of
>>the "AC" spec, it is part of the "MC" spec.
>> Type "MC" armoured cable can use the sheath as a ground, while type
>>"AC" cable requires the additional bare or insulated ground.
>
>
>it is the new "Smart MC" from Southwire. AC can always use the armor
>as ground.
>
>From the NEC
>320.100 Construction.
>Type AC cable shall have an armor of flexible metal tape and shall
>have an internal bonding strip of copper or aluminum in intimate
>contact with the armor for its entire length.
>
>Handbook commentary
>The armor of Type AC cable is recognized as an equipment grounding
>conductor by 250.118. The required internal bonding strip can be
>simply cut off at the termination of the armored cable, or it can be
>bent back on the armor. It is not necessary to connect it to an
>equipment grounding terminal. It reduces the inductive reactance of
>the spiral armor and increases the armor's effectiveness as an
>equipment ground. Many installers use this strip to help prevent the
>insulating (anti-short) bushing required by 320.40 (the “red head”)
>from falling out during rough wiring.
And the antishort is not required with the proper connectors on the
cable with the aluminum bond strip.
bud--
Dec 7, 2011, 10:02:36 AM12/7/11
to
not need an antishort?
--
bud--
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Dec 7, 2011, 5:18:15 PM12/7/11
to
On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 09:02:36 -0600, bud-- <remove....@isp.com>
wrote:
OK - you may have gotten me mixed up - AC to MC.
AC has the bond strip and the sheath can be used as safety ground.
MC does not have the bond strip and requires a separate safety ground
(bare or insulated)
An AC cable an antishort is required, while on MC it is NOT required
by NEC if approved connectors are used. See:
http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."
wrote:
AC has the bond strip and the sheath can be used as safety ground.
MC does not have the bond strip and requires a separate safety ground
(bare or insulated)
An AC cable an antishort is required, while on MC it is NOT required
by NEC if approved connectors are used. See:
http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
13.
It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."
RBM
Dec 7, 2011, 6:08:47 PM12/7/11
to
proficient as cutting and pasting , but seems to have little
understanding of the actual hardware or it's applications.
The Daring Dufas
Dec 7, 2011, 9:48:00 PM12/7/11
to
my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
now die happy. ^_^
TDD
Roanin
Dec 7, 2011, 10:22:57 PM12/7/11
to
>> http://www.kaf-tech.com/pdf/KT0609_pocket_guide.pdf, particulary page
>> 13.
>> It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
>> connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
>> is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
>> same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
>> that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
>> are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
>> manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."
>
> That link was to a very good source and a copy of the brochure went into
> my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
> now die happy. ^_^
>
> TDD
As the OP, I want to say Thanks to all for the lively discussion on the
>> 13.
>> It states "Insert the cable into the connector and secure the
>> connector into the box. Be sure that the anti-short bushing
>> is plainly visible in the connector for easy inspection. The
>> same procedure is followed for MC cable with the exception
>> that there is no bonding wire. Although anti-short bushings
>> are only required by the NEC for AC cable, most
>> manufacturers recommend their use with MC cable."
>
> That link was to a very good source and a copy of the brochure went into
> my electrical reference data base. Hopefully, this thread can
> now die happy. ^_^
>
> TDD
cable types. I have learned a lot. Suffice it to say that there are a lot of
different types of cable that have been made over the years by different
companies and referred to as BX.
R
The Daring Dufas
Dec 7, 2011, 10:46:03 PM12/7/11
to
you. ^_^
TDD
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