Electro-static speakers
Martin
Just wondering if any of you own any types of electro-static speakers? i
dont know much about them so i was wondering if you could reply on how
they sound?
Murray Peterson
I own a pair of Accoustat Model 3's (full range, no bass drivers).
As an ESL owner, my opinion isn't exactly unbiased, so take it for
what it's worth :-) The first time I ever listened to a pair of ESLs
(Quads), I was forever hooked on their sound. To find out how they
sound, you will have to go listen to a pair for yourself, since I am
not sure if I have the vocabulary to describe it. The closest I can
come is that they sound like a pair of extremely good headphones,
only the soundstage isn't sitting inside your skull, and there is
less bass output. Add a subwoofer to get your bass back...
Well designed ESLs have a very flat frequency response and very low
distortion (typically less than 0.5%), but I am not sure if this
completely accounts for the "electrostatic sound" that I love. My
current (uneducated) guess is that the beaming of the sound at higher
frequencies reduces the effect of the room acoustics, and that their
bipolar radiation pattern provides some sort of additional acoustic
signature as well.
--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_...@home.com (remove underscore)
URL: http://www.members.home.net/murraypeterson
Mike Davis
> Hi
>
> Just wondering if any of you own any types of electro-static speakers? i
> dont know much about them so i was wondering if you could reply on how
> they sound?
Martin,
I own a pair of Magnepan MMG's, which are what is called
planer-magnetic. The sound is unbelievable, very open but not harsh. I use
two subs to make up the low end. Here's a link where you can read about
electrostatic and planer-magnetic loudspeakers-
http://www.magnepan.com/
All the best, Mike
--
Michael S. Davis Creative Media-Works
Computer/Audio/Video Convergence
"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions."
http://www.creativemedia-works.com
webm...@creativemedia-works.com
Member, International Webmasters Association http://iwanet.org
John Kotches
>
> Hi
>
> Just wondering if any of you own any types of electro-static speakers? i
> dont know much about them so i was wondering if you could reply on how
> they sound?
I won't rehash Murray's post. I'm also an owner of Electrostatics,
Acoustat Spectra 22s. It'll be a sad day for me when these depart
from my home.
Electrostatics (and most planar loudspeakers in general) have a sonic
authenticity to them that does a superb job of rendering musical
details.
The panel is extremely lightweight, so there isn't much effort involved
in
starting / stopping the panel and colorations are practically
non-existent.
The downside is that the physics of sound reproduction dictates that a
full range ESL panel is going to be pretty large.
Hybrid dynamic woofer / ESL speakers can make the size of the speakers
less intimidating. Several manufacturers I'm aware of are making
these hybrids: Martin-Logan ( http://martinlogan.com ),
Final ( http://www.final.nl ) and my personal favorite, Inner Sound
( http://www.innersound.net )
Hope this helps.
--
***********************************************
* John Kotches jkotches@_pobox.com_
* Contributing Writer
* Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
* http://www.hometheaterhifi.com
AI Nut
As the other posters have said, ESL's are the best I have ever heard,
with the possible exception of the Watt Puppies (but at $40k+ for the
WPs, who cares?) One of the benefits of ESL's that another poster
alluded to is their crystal clarity. Using a very low mass device to
start air moving allows very sharp rise times which approximates real
instruments and sounds much better. For instance, listen to real bells
being struck, then listen to them through ESL's, then through cone
speakers. ESL's will sound almost exactly like the bells. Cone
speakers will sound muddy because they can't start moving as fast as the
real thing. Ribbon designs can respond as quickly as ESL's but are only
good for about 400 hz and up. Predominantly, voice and instruments are
below that 400 hz.
As another poster talked about, ESL's of good design will add less than
0.5% distortion to their received signal. Nearly all other speaker
types have at least 5%, with the average closer to 10-15%, and that is
the good stuff. Cheap speakers have much higher distortion. That is
why one never sees distortion specs in speaker advertisements.
Ok, the flip side:
1. ESL's require very high quality equipment and stringent designs to
get close to a flat response curve. However, their curves are way ahead
of most other speaker designs.
2. ESL's require massive amounts of current to drive them, that is, they
are extremely inefficient.
3. ESL's present a highly reactive load to an amplifier. DO NOT use
mediocre, mass market electronics to drive ESL's at any volume other
than minimal. You will blow the amps. Even if you have an amp that is
rated at 200+ watts, an ESL can put an impedance load of 40 ohms at one
moment, then .3 ohms in the next millisecond. Most amps cannot handle
this and will self destruct. It happened to me twice before I learned
what was going on. This was using Pioneer SX1980, their top of the line
receiver rated at 280 wpc into 8 ohms.
4. Most amps are designed to drive an 8 ohm (nominal) speaker load.
ESL's typically are closer to a 3-4 ohm load. Again, another way for
the amp to self destruct.
5. Amps or receivers for ESL's need to be truly high current with quite
good slew rates, like Adcoms high end amps. These are not cheap. Of
course, neither are the ESL's.
6. Placement of ESL's is critical to their optimal performance. If they
are not placed perfectly, performance suffers. However, the worst
placed I have heard just about equal some of the more expensive
non-ESL's in sound quality.
7. ESL designs to get good bass are very difficult or are very large.
For subwoofer frequencies, get a separate. My favorite is the new
Velodyne 18".
8. Pure ESL's have a very small sweet spot for the high frequencies.
Several designs have been tried to overcome this, with varying success.
9. In order to get good low frequency response a pure ESL must be
large. 2 feet wide by 6 feet tall is not unheard of. This results in a
very low WAF (wife approval factor.)
If you can get past the limitations (read $$), these speakers will give
you some of the very best sound reproduction you can buy or build.
Magnepans (Magneplanars? I forget which is the brand name) are not an
ESL design.
Oh yeah, I personally own Koss Model 2's for my mains. They use a pair
of loose, low voltage (<2kv) panels for bass, and a separate panel and
large ribbon for mids and highs. Not ideal ESL's, but they are only
3'x2' and have a sizable sweet spot.
HTH,
AI Nut
Norm Strong
After reading this list, one has to wonder why ESL manufacturers don't supply
them with suitable amplification. It would seem that ESL are the perfect place
for integrated speakers.
Norm Strong (nh...@aol.com)
2528 31st South, Seattle WA 98l44
nigel_...@my-deja.com
The two I know a little about are Martin Logan and InnerSound.
InnerSound has the edge on efficiency and integration for being
hybrids, but they are 1 seat speakers, while the ML's have that curved
panel which may help with a wider sweet spot, I haven't really compared
them.
Best system I ever heard was a CJ preamp, Sumo amp, and ML's.
Best Wishes,
Nigel
In article <394715B3...@none.non>,
Martin <no...@none.non> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Just wondering if any of you own any types of electro-static
speakers? i
> dont know much about them so i was wondering if you could reply on how
> they sound?
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sean Vadas
Paul Dragon
Ansel...err...Sarvcieic...err McCarty....uhh..who are you this week?
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4sX15.6441$dC.3...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> He must be framing his EE degree and putting it in his home theater store
> that he owns. I wonder what the name of it is , Dumbasses-R-Us.
Hahahhahaha.
> Sean Vadas <sm...@alumni.cwru.edu> wrote in message
> news:smv3-14060...@208-40-41-119.corecomm.net...
Paul Dragon
> Someone who doesnt take your silly nonsense bullshit.
That's a nice sentence fragment, puncuation boy. Write me back when you pass
English class, Sarrivivicec.c.ciocic.
Cmon Paul, where is the
> link to your highly successful store.
What are you talking about? I do some shopping at www.onecall.com is that
what you are talking about?
Oh and that highly regarded degree of
> yours. Paul, you jump everyones shit for not providing proof.
No, the only people I 'jump shit' on is people who make outrageous claims
with no proof to back it up. Namely just you and your sockpuppet friend
McCarty.
When are you
> going to stop being this ng biggest hypocrite and fess up. Unless you are
> the fraud we all presume that you are. Paul or whatever sockpuppet you are
> hiding behind.
Well, it has become obvious that you have gotten into the gonja again. You
may post again when you think you can start to look like you can maybe start
to make a little bit of sense.
> Paul Dragon <pdra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:skghls...@corp.supernews.com...
ansel
ansel
link to your highly successful store.Oh and that highly regarded degree of
yours. Paul, you jump everyones shit for not providing proof. When are you
going to stop being this ng biggest hypocrite and fess up. Unless you are
the fraud we all presume that you are. Paul or whatever sockpuppet you are
hiding behind.
news:skghls...@corp.supernews.com...
> Oh look..it's David Sarvviviec...KING OF THE SOCKPUPPETS!!! What's up
> Ansel...err...Sarvcieic...err McCarty....uhh..who are you this week?
>
>
>
> ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4sX15.6441$dC.3...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
ansel
posting that you own a store and have a EE degree. If my typemanship is all
that you can attack than you are an idiot. Why dont you substantiate your
posts with proof? Ive been reading posts this morning about how you want to
keep this newsgroup and how you are the nice sweet boy thatnever does
anything wrong. Bullshit, Paul. You are its biggest abuser. You hide behind
a sockpuppet and as of yet you have shown no proof of any thing you claim.
The only thing we see is your pitiful attempts of saleshacking Paradigm and
your cowardly attacks. I like Paradigms but you are giving them a bad name.
Just shut the fuck up. Come on Paul. dont sing it, bring it. Remember saying
that or was that one of your other multiple personalities. You provide the
facts and Ill shut up and youll never hear from me again. Be a man Paul and
show some integrity. Or is that a foreign word to you. I await your offtopic
attacks since you cant obviusly reply to my posts inelligently. Are you
scared Paul?news:skgjif3...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Someone who doesnt take your silly nonsense bullshit.
>
> That's a nice sentence fragment, puncuation boy. Write me back when you
pass
> English class, Sarrivivicec.c.ciocic.
>
>
>
> What are you talking about? I do some shopping at www.onecall.com is that
> what you are talking about?
>
>
>
> > yours. Paul, you jump everyones shit for not providing proof.
>
> with no proof to back it up. Namely just you and your sockpuppet friend
> McCarty.
>
>
>
> > going to stop being this ng biggest hypocrite and fess up. Unless you
are
> > the fraud we all presume that you are. Paul or whatever sockpuppet you
are
> > hiding behind.
>
> may post again when you think you can start to look like you can maybe
start
> to make a little bit of sense.
>
>
Paul Dragon
truly a weak-minded fool.
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M2725.702$h4....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Bizarro...@nospamacostallc.com
little rat dog that barks at you when you walk by. It's just too stupid to
know better.
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
If there is a NOSPAM in my address remove it
to email me.
Paul Dragon
points to your RoadRunner account. Go away, little boy.
<References: <4sX15.6441$dC.3...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
<skghls...@corp.supernews.com>
<7XX15.6555$dC.3...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
<skgjif3...@corp.supernews.com>
<M2725.702$h4....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.158.141.169
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970731; i386 SCO_SV 3.2]
Xref: rQdQ alt.home-theater.misc:206380
Bizarro...@NOSPAMacostallc.com> wrote in message
news:8idko7$7...@journal.concentric.net...
Bizarro...@nospamacostallc.com
anything. Obviously you cannot read headers. Or maybe I'm not myself.
Maybe I have a split personality and two brians instead of one. Two or
one, at least it's better than Paul's none!
Paul Dragon
headers, jerkass. That means nothing. What does tell the truth is the route
trace I did on your post...which points to your Tampa Bay RoadRunner
account.
<Bizarro...@NOSPAMacostallc.com> wrote in message
news:8idm2v$5...@chronicle.concentric.net...
ansel
You are such an idiot. This person has the common sense to know what a fool
you are. Your pathetic attempts to discredit others only adds to your lack
of character. Grow up. Have you found your proof yet, dumbass? When will you
stop hiding behind your sockpuppet accounts? Why dont you prove me wrong and
show the proof. You could actually be the big shot, hell you would shut me
and Brian up. You cant provide the proof because it doesnt exist. Like
everything else that defines who you are, its all full of shit.news:skkmbn...@corp.supernews.com...
Paul Dragon
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6Sv25.2479$h4....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Bizarro...@nospamacostallc.com
Ignore him, he's mentally deficient. If he thinks my CA account is
coming from elsewhere there's no way to convince him otherwise. To
support his delusions he cut and pastes the wrong data to support his
pea brain concoctions. What a loser. Maybe he's keeping all his
intelligence in the box that has his EE degree at his business. LOL
Bizarro...@nospamacostallc.com
the Headers don't mean (below).
Paul Dragon
ignorant as these two. And they are both from Tampa Bay Road Runner. Remind
me not to go to Tampa Bay. Ever.
<Bizarro...@NOSPAMacostallc.com> wrote in message
news:8iec95$i...@chronicle.concentric.net...
Stewart Pinkerton
>Hey wow ! Another demonstration of lack of intelligence. Learn something,
>anything. Obviously you cannot read headers. Or maybe I'm not myself.
>Maybe I have a split personality and two brians instead of one. Two or
>one, at least it's better than Paul's none!
Oh God, NOOOOOO!!!!!!! One brian is already one too many...........
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Steve Zipser
anse...@hotmail.com says...
> Path: news1.atl!hubfeed.atl!newsfeed.atl!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
<Bizarro...@NOSPAMacostallc.com> wrote in message
> Path:
news1.atl!hubfeed.atl!newsfeed.atl!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.n
et!dc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master
Paul:
These are not the same paths by any means.
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
Conrad Johnson Cal Audio Labs Spectron Parasound PASS Labs Gallo Davis
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ansel
itch in your asshole that you just cant get rid of till you take a shit.
Some people shouldnt be around computers and the usenet, and Paul is the
prime example.But then again that is his only contact with the world. His
lack of social skills and any common sense makes him totally inefficient to
participate with normal society.I think Im going to take a Paul and wipe my
Dragon. There goes Paul down the toilet. Dammit he left a skid mark on the
bowl.
<Bizarro...@NOSPAMacostallc.com> wrote in message
news:8iec95$i...@chronicle.concentric.net...
ansel
here. But if you do please tell me because I would love to personallly meet
you and have a word or two with. If you get my drift.news:skldodj...@corp.supernews.com...
Paul Dragon
ansel/sarceviic.
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:J2A25.1318$ez6....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Paul Dragon
ansel/sarceviic.
ansel <anse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M4A25.1319$ez6....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...