When exactly did the lights go out?
Tim Dorrington
I'm relatively new to this group, so forgive me if this has already
been thrashed out recently...
When Titanic sunk, at what point did the lights go out? In the movie,
they seemed to be on almost until the end. I would have thought that
any electric generators and batteries would have been way down in the
engine rooms, susceptible to mechanical failure and shorting out (with
nicely conductive salt water) much earlier on.
Whenever it happened, it must have made the situation twice as
terrifying.
Can anyone shed any light on this (no pun intended, I think)?
Thanks,
Tim.
Here2Fore
According to chronologies I've read, 4 minutes before sinking: "At 2:18 am,
a huge roar is heard as all moveable objects inside Titanic crash toward the
submerged bow. The lights blink once and then go out, leaving Titanic
visible only as a black silhouette against the starlit sky. Many are
convinced that the hull breaks in two between the 3rd and 4th funnels. The
ship achieves a completely perpendicular position and remains there for
several minutes."
Tim Dorrington wrote in message <3507b43f.3760563@wingate>...
Harbinger
t.dorr...@dial.pipex.com (Tim Dorrington) wrote:
>
>When Titanic sunk, at what point did the lights go out? In the movie,
>they seemed to be on almost until the end. I would have thought that
>any electric generators and batteries would have been way down in the
>engine rooms, susceptible to mechanical failure and shorting out (with
>nicely conductive salt water) much earlier on.
Electricity was generated in the aft part of the ship. As the ship
flooded the firemen and stokers were shutting the boilers so the icy
cold water wouldn't cause them to explode, but there was still enough
heat to produce steam to provide Titanic with power. The lights lost
power when, I've heard, the angle of the Titanic became so great that
the dynamos pulled themselves free from the deck. This would have
shorted out everything (wire and what not) and caused Titanic lights
to "blink once the go out forever." I've seen a computer animation
where the lights just blink and go out. It just doesn't have the
impact as James Cameron depiction. In the movie the lights seems to
blink deck by deck, showing us many points of failure. Hope this
helps. Please correct an of this if I'm wrong.
########
####/^\##
%%%%%%%
~%~%|%%%
%%%/.\~%~
~%/.......\%%
%/..._^_...\~
/.................\
HARBINGER
Lyndon
I do not think that you are wrong, but on one point I must
disagree, and that is the part about the boilers exploding.
I do not think that the boilers would have exploded, since
I have operated steam traction engines in the most
horrendous rain storms, and the only ill effect was a drop
in pressure. In the case of a boiler being immersed in ice
cold water while at approximately 300-350 degrees F and
around 250-300psi pressure, I think it is quite likely that
the boiler would have been surrounded by a layer of
steam/water vapour for a few moments, and the boiler would
have cooled down slowly over a period of a few minutes.
You have to remember that most fire-tube boiler explosions
are the result of the water level within the boiler
dropping such that the boiler plates next to the fire do
not have water against them. The result is that the metal
becomes overheated and thus weakened, can no longer take
the stress, and therefore rupture.
I will put this into a more coherent thought in a
subsequent posting. Any thoughts ?
Earl Chapman
Tim Dorrington wrote:
>
> I'm relatively new to this group, so forgive me if this has already
> been thrashed out recently...
>
> they seemed to be on almost until the end. I would have thought that
> any electric generators and batteries would have been way down in the
> engine rooms, susceptible to mechanical failure and shorting out (with
> nicely conductive salt water) much earlier on.
Hi Tim,
The lights stayed on till almost the very end. Titanic had two
auxiliary (emergency) steam engines and dynamos located on a flat in the
reciprocating engine room casing at the saloon deck ("D" Deck) level
which was well above the waterline. These dynamos were the ones which
Titanic's engineers kept going, along with some boilers in Boiler Room
Number 1 just ahead of the reciprocating engine room. Because Titanic
went down by the stem, with her stern rising, Boiler Room 1 would have
been quite dry until almost the very end and the lights would have gone
out only when the boilers themselves shifted in their beds.
When the order came to abandon ship, it was much too late for the
engineers and not one survived the sinking. Some engineers were
reported to have been seen up on the Boat Deck, but many would have been
manning the emergency dynamos and and keeping the remaining boilers
fired. These poor fellows couldn't possibly reach the open deck through
the complex maze of passageways keep in the bowels of Titanic, and many
likely did not even make the effort. Climbing steep ladders from
engineering spaces was a hard enough task under the best of conditions,
but with Titanic trimmed by the head as she was, climbing some of these
ladders would have been quite difficult if not impossible. My guess is
that many did not drown but were crushed to death as machinery and
boilers broke free of their beds when Titanic trimmed even deeper by the
head. Many would have been scaled as high pressure steam pipes broke
free from the boilers which remained in operation.
Quite a story and a tribute to the Titanic's engineers. They died to a
man doing their duty.
Earl Chapman
Montreal, Canada
Tom Pappas
> I do not think that you are wrong, but on one point I must
> disagree, and that is the part about the boilers exploding.
> I do not think that the boilers would have exploded, since
> I have operated steam traction engines in the most
> horrendous rain storms, and the only ill effect was a drop
> in pressure. In the case of a boiler being immersed in ice
> cold water while at approximately 300-350 degrees F and
> around 250-300psi pressure, I think it is quite likely that
> the boiler would have been surrounded by a layer of
> steam/water vapour for a few moments, and the boiler would
> have cooled down slowly over a period of a few minutes.
> You have to remember that most fire-tube boiler explosions
> are the result of the water level within the boiler
> dropping such that the boiler plates next to the fire do
> not have water against them. The result is that the metal
> becomes overheated and thus weakened, can no longer take
> the stress, and therefore rupture.
--
There are a few notes about the possibility of thermal stress in Titanic's
boilers at the web site of Liverpool John Moores University:
[QUOTE]
Boilers not required to supply steam for the pumps and dynamos had to be
shut down, keeping them under pressure was dangerous. Engineers could not
afford the time to check that feed water was being supplied to all boilers
and if the water level in a boiler fell too low the furnace could collapse
resulting in an explosion. Cold sea water coming into a hot boiler under
pressure could also cause an explosion due to the thermal stress induced
and so the boilers in No 6 and No 5 boiler rooms had to be shut down with
great urgency. Any boiler explosion would have killed people but would also
have damaged watertight bulkheads and possibly the hull. This would have
resulted in the ship foundering much more quickly. To prevent such
explosion fires had to be raked out of the furnaces and steam pressure had
to be reduced rapidly; this was done by manually lifting the safety valves
using the easing gear fitted to valves for that purpose and it is the
operation of this easing gear which resulted in the roar of steam from the
vent pipes together with the natural release from boilers generating steam
no longer required by the engines.
[END QUOTE]
Tom Pappas {:ož http://home.att.net/~tompappas
"But this script can't sink!"
"She is made of irony, sir. I assure you, she can. And she will."
Andrys D Basten
In article <35087E...@sympatico.ca>,
Earl Chapman <earl.c...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>When the order came to abandon ship, it was much too late for the
>engineers and not one survived the sinking. Some engineers were
>reported to have been seen up on the Boat Deck, but many would have been
>manning the emergency dynamos and and keeping the remaining boilers
>fired. These poor fellows couldn't possibly reach the open deck through
>the complex maze of passageways keep in the bowels of Titanic, and many
>likely did not even make the effort. Climbing steep ladders from
>engineering spaces was a hard enough task under the best of conditions,
>but with Titanic trimmed by the head as she was, climbing some of these
>ladders would have been quite difficult if not impossible. My guess is
>that many did not drown but were crushed to death as machinery and
>boilers broke free of their beds when Titanic trimmed even deeper by the
>head. Many would have been scaled as high pressure steam pipes broke
>free from the boilers which remained in operation.
>
>Quite a story and a tribute to the Titanic's engineers. They died to a
>man doing their duty.
>
>Earl Chapman
Yes. While I'd read that they all died trying to keep everything
going, your description makes it more real than what I've read
before. These guys were definitely Heroes.
--
===========================================================
Andrys Basten <and...@netcom.com>
CNE, Basten Micro Consulting
San Francisco/East Bay - 510/235-3861
Have music, will travel: piano, harpsichord, recorders
http://www.andrys.com -Online resources, Peru photos w/Canon Elph
Aqualieb
"I've seen a computer animation where the lights just blink and go out. It
just doesn't have the impact as James Cameron depiction. In the movie the
lights seems to blink deck by deck, showing us many points of failure."
Dramatic as this may seem, it isn't what witnesses recall. History is history,
although what was recorded may have been in error. Be that as it may, it would
be wrong, or at least inaccurate, to depict things as they didn't happen.
It was the fact that they went out at once, came on at once, and went out again
at once that impressed those that witnessed it. It stuck in their minds.
Eric Smith
aqua...@aol.com (Aqualieb) writes:
That does seem to be the consensus but at least one witness, Seaman Edward
Buley, testified that "the lights went out gradually as she disappeared."
-----
Eric Smith | "They were like travellers unwillingly
erics @netcom .com | returned from brilliant realms, not yet
http://www.catsdogs.com | adjusted to their return." - Olivia Manning
This was posted with an altered address to thwart bulk email programs.
To respond by email, take out the ".remove.this" part.
Tom Pappas
Andrys D Basten <and...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<andrysE...@netcom.com>...
> In article <35087E...@sympatico.ca>,
> Earl Chapman <earl.c...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >When the order came to abandon ship, it was much too late for the
> >engineers and not one survived the sinking. Some engineers were
> >reported to have been seen up on the Boat Deck, but many would have been
> >manning the emergency dynamos and and keeping the remaining boilers
> >fired. These poor fellows couldn't possibly reach the open deck through
> >the complex maze of passageways keep in the bowels of Titanic, and many
> >likely did not even make the effort. Climbing steep ladders from
> >engineering spaces was a hard enough task under the best of conditions,
> >but with Titanic trimmed by the head as she was, climbing some of these
> >ladders would have been quite difficult if not impossible. My guess is
> >that many did not drown but were crushed to death as machinery and
> >boilers broke free of their beds when Titanic trimmed even deeper by the
> >head. Many would have been scaled as high pressure steam pipes broke
> >free from the boilers which remained in operation.
> >
> >Quite a story and a tribute to the Titanic's engineers. They died to a
> >man doing their duty.
> >
> >Earl Chapman
>
> Yes. While I'd read that they all died trying to keep everything
> going, your description makes it more real than what I've read
> before. These guys were definitely Heroes.
>
See also http://www.livjm.ac.uk/~etmdgri1/html_files/titanic1.htm#After
--
Andrys D Basten
In article <01bd4ed6$230044f0$22a02bce@www>,
Tom Pappas <TomPa...@AMworldnet.att.net> wrote:
[re the engineers, all lost]
>See also http://www.livjm.ac.uk/~etmdgri1/html_files/titanic1.htm#After
Tom, thanks for this interesting link. Have bookmarked it and am
sending it to interested friends who don't do newsgroups.
- A
>--
>Tom Pappas {:oş http://home.att.net/~tompappas
>
>"But this script can't sink!"
>"She is made of irony, sir. I assure you, she can. And she will."
>