Titanic could have been saved.
R Hammett
The Titanic sunk because of a 300 foot X ~3/4 inch opening (sprung riveted
seams) in its side with an equivalent open area of 12 square feet, why was
no attempt made to stopper this hole from the outside with canvas,
mattresses, bed-linen, starch-shirts, petticoats etc.. ?
KenEdison
gheez I can imagine the water pressure coming in, like I think it would have
been impossibile to stop the leak, however I don't understand why the flodd
compartment walls were only so high, if they were a complete seal then we
wouldn't be talking in this newsgroup today.
R Hammett wrote in message <688vls$p...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
jim burt
R Hammett wrote:
>
> The Titanic sunk because of a 300 foot X ~3/4 inch opening (sprung riveted
> seams) in its side with an equivalent open area of 12 square feet, why was
> no attempt made to stopper this hole from the outside with canvas,
> mattresses, bed-linen, starch-shirts, petticoats etc.. ?
> The Titanic did not sink beacause of a three-hundred foot gash, It > sank beacause of six slits in her starboard side which was 12 square
> feet of damage. It may have been saved if the Water tight compartments
> were sealed at the top. If there was a 300 foot gash she may have went
> down faster than 2 hours and 40 minutes.
Bloody Viking
KenEdison (lowhan...@usa.net) wrote:
: gheez I can imagine the water pressure coming in, like I think it would have
: been impossibile to stop the leak, however I don't understand why the flodd
: compartment walls were only so high, if they were a complete seal then we
: wouldn't be talking in this newsgroup today.
Also, the ceilings were not watertight. I guess they never figured on an
argument with a berg. Had it been designed with watertight ceilings, it
would either been savable to be towed back to the body shop or sank more
slowly. My question is "Why no headlights?". Where's a lawyer when you
need one for a product liability suit......
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JSisRad
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have come to the conclusion that the Titanic could've
been saved many times over. But the fact is that it wasn't and going on and on
about how it could've, really solves nothing. This is a tradgedy with way to
many "what if's"
Jesse Sarvinski
JSi...@aol.com
Obi-Wan Kenobi
R Hammett (eso...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: The Titanic sunk because of a 300 foot X ~3/4 inch opening (sprung riveted
: seams) in its side with an equivalent open area of 12 square feet, why was
: no attempt made to stopper this hole from the outside with canvas,
: mattresses, bed-linen, starch-shirts, petticoats etc.. ?
I seriously doubt that the Titanic was carrying Scuba gear and illumination,
let alone had the properly trained crew to seal hull riputers (if even
stuffing them with towels to at least slow the leak) at a depth 20 feet below
the water line at 12 midnight in the middle of the Atlantic.
And at that pressure, I doubt that towels would have withstanded the test -
they most likely would have gotten pushed in by the pressure. Besides, there
was no 300 foot hole, just six smaller ones, which total the square footage
you specify. The holes were no wider than a person's hand, but definitely
larger than 3/4". The longest hole in the hull is 36 feet.The others were
much smaller.
-Doug
--
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LETS GO METS!!! GO RANGERS!!!!
Bloody Viking
Obi-Wan Kenobi (dou...@panix.com) wrote:
: they most likely would have gotten pushed in by the pressure. Besides, there
: was no 300 foot hole, just six smaller ones, which total the square footage
: you specify. The holes were no wider than a person's hand, but definitely
: larger than 3/4". The longest hole in the hull is 36 feet.The others were
: much smaller.
Stopping the holes would have been difficult, to say the least. Here's
something fun I took part in while in the Navy.
We had this fun "DC" exercise where a firehose was hooked to a length of
pipe. Now, the pipe conviently had a hole that was like a quarter inch
wide and like 6 inches long, and the water was turned on. Your job, with a
few coworkers is to patch it. Talk about "wet and wild"!
OK. the pressure of the water with the Titanic holes was only 10 PSI. It
would have taken QUITE an effort to stuff the holes becuse you couldn't
patch it like the pipe. There's nothing to wrap the string around to hold
the patch in place. Well, we know what happened next.....
Phil Trostel
I saw a program on Discover channel where this man by the name of
Mathias aboard the Nautile did some work to determine what damage was
made to the hull. The damage was sunk into the mud and not visable. His
findings revealed what ended up in the movie. The iceberg poped holes
"like Morse Code" along the hull. A bunch of other scientists and
engineers concurred on the idea that the damage was no larger than
twelve square feet, the area of an average human being. The reason
Titanic sunk with such minimal damage was because it damaged the hull
covering six compartments and those compartments were only sealed up to
"E" deck. So as the forward compartment lowered, because of other
compartments flooded aft, none had to be full to push the forward
compartment lower. As the ships bow continued to sink water pressure
increased in the areas where the damage occured. The "gash" theory was
adopted for decades from a simple drawing that was published in a London
news paper which showed a huge gash just starboard of the keel. Also
damage to the bow was somewhat minimal. Also the ships beam at the bow
is narrow where long at midship. The hull pressed harder aft of the
initial point of contact with the iceberg which explains why the most
extensive damage was aft of compartments one and two. Those aft
compartments flooded more rapidly than compartments one and two but
pushed them deeper where water pressure took over quickly flooding the
foward two compartments. Dispute what I'm telling you but watch the
program on the Discovery channel or buy it for about $35.00. I found
that program to be pretty darn interesting. Also check out the site
which has the gash picture in the newspaper.
http://www.lib.virgine.edu/cataloging/vnp/titanic/titanic1.html
Also on the brittle metal issue. Until the mid 1920s engineers didn't
have a comprehensive knowledge of tensile strength in steel.
R Hammett
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote in message <68bjml$7...@panix2.panix.com>...
>R Hammett (eso...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>: The Titanic sunk because of a 300 foot X ~3/4 inch opening (sprung
riveted
>: seams) in its side with an equivalent open area of 12 square feet, why
was
>: no attempt made to stopper this hole from the outside with canvas,
>: mattresses, bed-linen, starch-shirts, petticoats etc.. ?
>
>I seriously doubt that the Titanic was carrying Scuba gear and
illumination,
>let alone had the properly trained crew to seal hull riputers (if even
>stuffing them with towels to at least slow the leak) at a depth 20 feet
below
>the water line at 12 midnight in the middle of the Atlantic.
>And at that pressure, I doubt that towels would have withstanded the test -
>they most likely would have gotten pushed in by the pressure. Besides,
there
>was no 300 foot hole, just six smaller ones, which total the square footage
>you specify. The holes were no wider than a person's hand, but definitely
>larger than 3/4". The longest hole in the hull is 36 feet.The others were
>much smaller.>
>-Doug
If the material is on the outside then it would be sucked in like a vacuum
clean. IMhO, It would only AT MOST have been necessary to push down from a
lifeboat with a pole buoyant material into the vicinity of the various
openings. The pressure of 20' of sea water is~9psi or ~1/7 usual municipal
supply pressure. It would only have been necessary to stop a portion of the
leakage to prevent the pumps from being overwhelmed
Rob
tom brennan
I remember reading in the Horatio Hornblower books about how they would
plug up shot holes in wooden warships by lowering a rope mat over the
hole and the water pressure would force the mat into the hole. And I've
read of heroic efforts in damage control on warships in WWII. But
warships have much larger crews than passenger steamers ( in terms of
seamen) and practice damage control. The crew and officers of the
Titanic were experienced British (the best kind ) seamen, if they
couldn't save the ship then that's that.
Tom Brennan
Andrew Olmsted
The crew of Titanic may have been seaman, but they weren't Navy seamen,
trained in damage control. Because a fighting ship trains to go in harm's
way, the crew trains on methods to keep her afloat. Civilian ships don't do
this sort of training, since no civilian ship plans on taking damage below
the waterline.
Andy
--
Andrew Olmsted/Jhereg
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/1422
Movie Reviews, Baseball Discussion, and More.
tom brennan wrote in message
<68i0fa$7ei$1...@newsd-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Brent
This is quite interesting, but how is this known? I think Cameron was able
to learn a few things from some kind of underground sonar or something of
the sort, but I didn't know this much detail had been learned.
Brent
I've **often** thought this same thing! I presume they either didn't think
of it (which seems highly unlikely given the circumstances, and the
experience of the crew (people must have been patching holes in boats long
before then)); they knew it wouldn't work for one reason or another; or they
simply had no way of applying the temporary patch. Also bear in mind that
they would only be interested in preventing (or slowing) water from entering
boiler room number six (fifth compartment), not the other four flooded
compartments. Presumably the holes would be considerably smaller there.
>>: seams) in its side with an equivalent open area of 12 square feet, why
>was
>>: no attempt made to stopper this hole from the outside with canvas,
>>: mattresses, bed-linen, starch-shirts, petticoats etc.. ?
R Hammett
Brent wrote in message <68kic7$jd6$2...@news1.mts.net>...
This seems to me the most interesting aspect the Titanic sinking. It must
have come up at the time since stuffing from the outside using the suction
of the leak is fairly straight forward. All I know from an old fictional
movie is that somebody measured the rate the holds were filling, and the
builder declared the Titanic would sink. (Perhaps it would not have been
dignified for a great ship to limp into port with bed linen stuffed in the
hull).
Why in a DEAD CALM no attempts were made to plug from the outside using the
suction of the leaks ?
Charles Groark
Cameron didn't discover this. The holes were discovered by a group
associated with the salvage effort. Sonar probing of the mud indicated
that the hull is ruptured in certain locations, with the dimensions
mentioned.
Personally, I wonder whether these holes are iceberg damage or caused by
impact with the bottom. The sonar evidence says that they're there, it
doesn't prove what caused them. The location *indicates* that they are
iceberg damage, but that doesn't prove it... yet.
Like many aspects of Titanic's sinking, this is one that falls into the
'probable, but not absolutely proven' category. I feel that it will go
into the 'proven' category within the next few years, but I've been
wrong before...
Charlie