Was Czar Nicholas II a relative of Queen Victoria?
Mike Potter
was their relationship? Nicholas's wife the Czarina Alexandra was Queen
Victoria's granddaughter.
Odysseus
There may be a closer tie than this -- the royal and noble familes of
northern Europe intermarried very extensively -- but Nicholas II's
mother, Dagmar or Marie of Denmark, was a
great-great-great-granddaughter of George II of England through the
line of the Landgraves of Hesse-Cassel, making the tsar something
like Victoria's third cousin twice removed.
--Odysseus
a.spencer3
Odysseus <odysseu...@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message
news:3E7E9A99...@yahoo-dot.ca...
common grandmother. And they also looked very similar.
Surreyman
Penny Otte
Alexendra. Not sure what that makes him to Victoria then... That being
said, everyone in the European royalty had familial ties like this, thus
the deadly hemophilia that the their child had.
Penny
LizR
>I believe that Czar Nicholas II was a distant (third or fourth)cousin of
>Alexendra. Not sure what that makes him to Victoria then... That being
>said, everyone in the European royalty had familial ties like this, thus
>the deadly hemophilia that the their child had.
>Penny
Well, that was informative.
Liz
Peter J Lusby
> I believe that Czar Nicholas II was a distant (third or fourth)cousin of
> Alexendra. Not sure what that makes him to Victoria then... That being
> said, everyone in the European royalty had familial ties like this, thus
> the deadly hemophilia that the their child had.
> Penny
Not sure what your point is here. You seem to be saying that haemophilia was
inevitable in European royalty because of family ties. In point of fact,
haemophilia was introduced into the royal families of Europe as a spontaneous
mutation in Victoria's genes ("The History of Haemophilia," Dr. P.L.F.
Giangrande). Its subsequent spread owes more to the fact that she had two
daughters and a son who carried the gene than to anything else. Someone,
somewhere in the European aristocracy was going to marry each of Victoria's
vast brood, and someone, somewhere in the European aristocracy, was therefore
going to give rise to children with the same gene. It's simple mendelian
genetics.
TTFN
+
--
"A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware" - Rupert Brooke - "The Soldier"
Peter J Lusby
San Diego, California, USA
www.lusby.org
Roger4336
>common grandmother. And they also looked very similar.
>
Their mothers were sisters, daughters of King Christian IX of Denmark.
George V's mother was Alexandra, Edward VII's Queen, and Princess of Wales
before 1901. Nicholas' mother was Marie/Dagmar, wife of Tsar Alexander III.
Queen Victoria was not Nicholas' grandmother.
Victoria was probably a distant relative of Tsar Nicholas II. Almost all the
European royals of that time were related somehow. But she was not a close
relative.
A sidelight: Marie (played by Helen Hayes) was the Dowager Empress in the
movie "Anastasia." General Bunin (Yul Brynner) brought the presumed Anastasia
(Ingrid Bergman) to Denmark, to get the imprimatur of her grandmother, the
highest-ranking surviving member of the Imperial family.
-- Roger
Odysseus
Nicholas's? Are you perhaps thinking of Kaiser Wilhelm II, son of the
Queen's eldest daughter Victoria Adelaide?
As the OP pointed out the *Tsarina* was another of George V's first
cousins, being a daughter of Princess Alice, but according to the
sources I've found, for example
<http://ftp.cac.psu.edu/~saw/royal/royalgen.html>,
the Tsar's paternal grandparents were Alexander II and Marie of
Hesse-Darmstadt, and on his mother's side were Christian IX of
Denmark and Louise of Hesse-Cassel.
Nicholas and George certainly looked very much alike, however close
their cosanguinity; isn't there a story about one of them being
mistaken for the groom at the other's wedding?
--Odysseus
a.spencer3
Roger4336 <roge...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030324234410...@mb-cc.aol.com...
text that, for other reasons, I copied off in January this year:
One can appreciate why Kaiser Wilhelm II, at the outbreak of war in 1914,
exclaimed that 'Nicky' had 'played him false'. For the rulers of the world's
three greatest nations - King George V of Great Britain and Tsar Nicholas II
of Russia on the one hand, and the German Kaiser on the other - were not
simply cousins, they were first cousins. If their grandmother Queen Victoria
had still been alive, said the Kaiser, she would never have allowed them to
go to war with each other.
If this is inaccurate, someone had better tell the BBC!
Surreyman
Penny Otte
not intermarry so heavily, the hemophilia would not have spread so
vastly across European royalty and may have in fact prevented the
mutation to begin with.
It seems simple mathematics to me that keeping a gene pool small creates
mutations -- thus why most states in the US outlaw marrying of first
cousins. For granted it does not appear to happen with the first or
even the second incidence of intermarrying, but it has been proven that
with susequent intermarrying of close relations (at least in the human
race) it does. There has even been speculation that some of the mummys
found in Egypt have congenitive diseases of the bones probably due to
close inter-marriage.
And that is, basically my point.
Penny
Don Aitken
wrote:
>The point I was really making was, the fact that if European royalty did
>not intermarry so heavily, the hemophilia would not have spread so
>vastly across European royalty and may have in fact prevented the
>mutation to begin with.
>
And the point which Peter was making is that this is not true. There
is no example, in the history of QV's descendants, of two haemophilia
carriers marrying.
>It seems simple mathematics to me that keeping a gene pool small creates
>mutations -- thus why most states in the US outlaw marrying of first
>cousins.
Completely untrue. The incidence of mutations has nothing to do with
inbreeding.
> For granted it does not appear to happen with the first or
>even the second incidence of intermarrying, but it has been proven that
>with susequent intermarrying of close relations (at least in the human
>race) it does. There has even been speculation that some of the mummys
>found in Egypt have congenitive diseases of the bones probably due to
>close inter-marriage.
>
There is a case to be made against repeated cousin marriages, but it
is a bit more sophisticated than this, and, in any case, not very
strong. The superstitious horror of cousin marriage which prevails in
the US is unknown in Europe; it is accepted in all parts of society,
and is not particularly a royal thing.
--
Don Aitken
Don Aitken
<a.spe...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Apologies if I got it wrong - not really my subject. I cribbed from a BBC
>text that, for other reasons, I copied off in January this year:
>
>One can appreciate why Kaiser Wilhelm II, at the outbreak of war in 1914,
>exclaimed that 'Nicky' had 'played him false'. For the rulers of the world's
>three greatest nations - King George V of Great Britain and Tsar Nicholas II
>of Russia on the one hand, and the German Kaiser on the other - were not
>simply cousins, they were first cousins. If their grandmother Queen Victoria
>had still been alive, said the Kaiser, she would never have allowed them to
>go to war with each other.
>
>If this is inaccurate, someone had better tell the BBC!
>
It is accurate, although perhaps rather misleading. George and William
were first cousins through QV, and this was the relationship William
was referring to when he made that remark. George and Nicholas were
also first cousins, but *not* through QV.
--
Don Aitken
Roger4336
>exclaimed that 'Nicky' had 'played him false'. For the rulers of the world's
>three greatest nations - King George V of Great Britain and Tsar Nicholas II
>of Russia on the one hand, and the German Kaiser on the other - were not
>simply cousins, they were first cousins. If their grandmother Queen Victoria
>had still been alive, said the Kaiser, she would never have allowed them to
>go to war with each other.
>
>If this is inaccurate, someone had better tell the BBC!
>
They got two out of three right, which isn't bad for history on contemporary
TV.
Willy and Georgy were first cousins. Queen Vic and Albert were their common
grandparents.
Georgy and Nicky were first cousins. King Christian IX of Denmark and his
Queen were their common grandparents.
Willy and Nicky were not first cousins. Willy's grandparents were Kaiser
Wilhelm I and Queen Vic (with spouses). Nicky's grandfathers were Tsar
Alexander II and King Christian.
-- Roger
John Gilmer
>
> One can appreciate why Kaiser Wilhelm II, at the outbreak of war in 1914,
> exclaimed that 'Nicky' had 'played him false'. For the rulers of the
world's
> three greatest nations - King George V of Great Britain and Tsar Nicholas
II
> of Russia on the one hand, and the German Kaiser on the other - were not
> simply cousins, they were first cousins. If their grandmother Queen
Victoria
> had still been alive, said the Kaiser, she would never have allowed them
to
> go to war with each other.
"Kaiser Bill" had a reasonable point!
With the leaders of 3 of the 4 or 5 strongest european powers (others being
the Ottoman Empire and France) being closer than "Kissing Cousins" one would
expect a little more in the way of "back channel" communications in the
cause of peace.
Who knows: maybe George and Nick could have met in some Baltic resort and
decided to let the Austrians have Serbia and then send Kaiser Bill a
telegram with reasonable terms for peace.
This might have been a case where there was TOO MUCH democracy in England.
The King had decided that keeping his figurehead states was more important
than calling off the war that caused England to lose a generation of its
young men.
Doesn't say much for the Royal Family.
a.spencer3
John Gilmer <gil...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
news:3e819214$0$96...@dingus.crosslink.net...
contemporary institution that was around in those days.
Have a go at George V if you want to, but not his great-grand relations!
Surreyman
M. J. Powell
<gil...@crosslink.net> writes
"It will all be over by Christmas"
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
a.spencer3
M. J. Powell <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xmh3g3Cm...@pickmere.demon.co.uk...
> > "It will all be over by Christmas"
>
Oh, sorry, you meant ....................
Surreyman
John Gilmer
> >
> No chance. They'll be regrouping in Kuwait next week for another go.
> Oh, sorry, you meant ....................
>
> Surreyman
"Next time" you claim a post is OT some of us will remind you!