1967 GTX??
jetski junkies
Satellite. Without any mention of GTX on the title.
Perry
RedNeck from Hell wrote:
> >I bought a 67, to restore, it has the GTX tags
> >and it is a 383 car, with a 4 gear,
>
> GTX's did not have 383's
>
> Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm
> Happiness is driving an ass kicking big block Mopar
Dino fh
However, It does have the fenders off a gtx, with a perfectly matched b-5 blue
color, and it is a 383 car, with a 4 gear, VIN indicates Belvedere/Sattelite,
and the fender option plate is missing. I have no Tittle, so here is my
question. Is it a Belvedere, or a Sattelite, and how can i figure out if it
was a GTX , I know the obvious, and i do have the hood as well, I have been
told its a Sport Sattelite, Vin on most occasions has been a Belvedere, I
looked for the obvious replacement screwups, but can find none. Other than a
trim package, was there any thing that could decipher the car. Thanks, BTW
It has a stock/not 150 mph speedo, but it looks like that was replaced, gtx
tags are on the fenders, trunk, glove box, back seat.
Dino
RedNeck from Hell
GTX's did not have 383's
RedNeck from Hell
>Satellite. Without any mention of GTX on the title.
>
>Perry
Perry, think about this one. GTX's were ALWAYS 440 or Hemi cars. Those were
the choices. 1967 was the first year of the 440 Magnum with the 915 closed
chamber heads.
Ken Simms
--
Ken
"RedNeck from Hell" <mopa...@aol.comxxx> wrote in message
news:20000428235057...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
Dino fh
much like the factory GTX stuff, but the vin definatly states this was a 383
car, I just dont remember a lot of Bel/Sats with big block
4 speeds , most I have seen were 6, and 318's auto., I was scared at first
when I
copied the the vin down I screwed up, and it came up as a 6 cyl car. not that
it matters but at least it will have the right motor if not the matching one
Dino
jetski junkies
383 GTXs, in 67. Remember also, back then you could order what you wanted. Even
if it was a slant 6 GTX. I don't remember seeing a 440 till the 68s came out.
Not saying your wrong, by no means, just that my memory has seen better days.
It's been years but my sisters hubby had a 68 GTX and I could have sworn it was
a 383 car originally, and he put the 440 in it. But I may be confusing it with
the many Roadrunners he had.
Damn, I feel old
Perry
Chris Herrington
early 70's you could order the GTX package on a stock Road Runner. The road
runner was standard issue with a 383. Optional Hemi in 68&69. In 70 you could
order a 440 in a Runner, then in late 71, the 400 replaced the 383.
I know of two people with 67 Belvederes, one is a 383 4gear, the other a 383 727
auto.
One last note.
Even if the numbers don't match, enjoy your muscle car!
Happy Moparing.
Chris
Hemi4268
I am not sure about 67 but in 68 the Belvedere/Satelite line all had the R in
the VIN. RL RM RH and RS. RL (low) were taxies and busness mans 4drs.
RM(medium) was used for RR and RH (high) for Satelites and RS (special or
sport) for GTX.
Larry
Steve Lacker
jetski junkies wrote:
> In 67....I believe most were 383 cars, the rest were Hemi's.
Nope. A GTX was never available with a 383. 440 or Hemi, PERIOD- just like
a Coronet R/T.
-- Stephen G. Lacker
sglacker at texas dot net
"Turn off your blinding fog lights, hang up, and DRIVE!"
corey
satellites were only availible from 68 to 70 or 71 then they became
sebring plus'
sorry for the bum news but remember to check things out very closely
before you buy another one! also if there is no fender tag on any car
that you are buying to fix up don't buy it! chances are its fake.
mopar 2 ya
corey
http://community.webtv.net/cgballons/SIOUXFALLS
http://community.webtv.net/cgballons/DREAMZ
Mr.jym
Jim
Dino fh
stuff to get me curious.
Dino
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Chris Herrington <cherr...@bmts.com> wrote:
> In 70 you could order a 440 in a Runner,
Actually, that would be 1969, and it was a 440 6bbl. No 440-4 Road
Runners until the Superbird in 1970 and the GTX from 1972-74.
>then in late 71, the 400 replaced the 383.
If you mean for the 1972 model year, sure.
D. Rosenberg
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Maybe it was a Sport Fury, but not a Sport Satellite. Not until 1968.
Gray Eagle
Dino fh
> I bought a 67, to restore, it has the GTX tags, but I am thnking its a
cloner.,
> was a GTX
There is also a VIN tag on the drivers door. GTX had its own code..I am not
at home and would have to dig out the book..
I'm sure if you posted here someone could tell you.
-GE
Gray Eagle
jetski junkies
> In 67....I believe most were 383 cars, the rest were Hemi's. A GTX is a
Satellite. Without any mention of GTX on the title.
>
> Perry
The '67 GTX was the model that Plymouth chose to unveil their 440 in. There
were 'four' hardtops built with a Hemi and a 4 speed. (I owned one of these
for a short time) ..
What you wont find in a GTX is any small block.
Any of the B-RB engines could be factory ordered
.. most opted for a 440.
-GE
Gray Eagle
Ken Simms wrote
> That is correct. 1967 383 GTX was not possible
>
> --
> Ken
Neither was a '71 Dodge Colt with a 426 Hemi in it..
..but in '71.. you could order one from the factory.
Delivered 'As Is' ..not for street use.. etc..
I'm fairly certain that if someone wanted to go thru the hassle they could
have gotten a 383 GTX .. don't know if anyone did though :)
-GE
Chris Herrington
440 6bbl was the first 440 Runner yes, but difficult to find, even then.
In sept 71 the 400 replaced the 383, so technically it was the 72 model
year, so I conceed the point.
Happy Moparing.
rose...@pilot.msu.edu wrote:
> In article <390AE9E2...@bmts.com>,
> Chris Herrington <cherr...@bmts.com> wrote:
>
> > In 70 you could order a 440 in a Runner,
>
> Actually, that would be 1969, and it was a 440 6bbl. No 440-4 Road
> Runners until the Superbird in 1970 and the GTX from 1972-74.
>
> >then in late 71, the 400 replaced the 383.
>
> If you mean for the 1972 model year, sure.
>
Jeffrey J. Potoff
Or perhaps the better question is why ? Pay extra for a smaller engine
with less power. Sounds pretty strange to me.
Jeff
RedNeck from Hell
>..but in '71.. you could order one from the factory.
>Delivered 'As Is' ..not for street use.. etc
Pure unadulterated "BUULSHIT"
None of the hemi colts werre built at Chrycorp.>
>I'm fairly certain that if someone wanted to go thru the hassle they could
>have gotten a 383 GTX .. don't know if anyone did though :)
>
More of the same!!!!!!
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Chris Herrington <cherr...@bmts.com> wrote:
> Up here in Canada, the 440 was available in the Runner in 70.
Where did you get this info? I don't believe it, with all due respect.
For awhile, it was thought that a 440-4 1970 Road Runner existed, but
eventually someone figured out it was a Superbird without the nose and
wing.
Chris Herrington
up here then.
Hemi4268
You have to remember they all came down the same assembly line. A 318 then a
383 then a 440GTX and then another 318 in that order. So the bottom line is
not much difference between a GTX and a 318 car. Doesn't take much to retro
fit a 318 to a 440 GTX and if it started out as a 383 (somewhat rare) then all
the better. A GTX option means it had a 440. Add another $900 and you got a
Hemi.
Larry
Gray Eagle
RedNeck from
> Pure unadulterated "BUULSHIT"
Opinions vary
-yawn-
-GE
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
RedNeck from Hell
Then mine is you are full of bullshit.
Go spank your monkey and do something useful instead of spreading lies in here.
JimmyJoeRussBob
>
Anyone who wants to come in here and spread outright lies needs to be
confronted right off and not tolerated.
I've seen this clown in other ng's spreading his ignorance or trying to spread
it depending on the tolerance of the group.
As Smokey Yunick said "The price of progress is trouble and as the monkey took
a whiz in the the cash register, it's gonna run into money."
CobraJet
<pot...@chem.umn.edu> wrote:
> Gray Eagle wrote:
> >
> > Ken Simms wrote
> > > That is correct. 1967 383 GTX was not possible
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ken
> >
> > Neither was a '71 Dodge Colt with a 426 Hemi in it..
> > ..but in '71.. you could order one from the factory.
> > Delivered 'As Is' ..not for street use.. etc..
> >
> > I'm fairly certain that if someone wanted to go thru the hassle they could
> > have gotten a 383 GTX .. don't know if anyone did though :)
>
> Or perhaps the better question is why ? Pay extra for a smaller engine
> with less power. Sounds pretty strange to me.
>
> Jeff
Plymouth's ads bragged of "the largest displacement of any standard
engine" in reference to the GTX. It would be corporate folly to allow a
smaller engine to be optioned in that car. Such a piece would dilute
the intended attitude the marketing types were creating behind the GTX.
Likewise, the Ford "Fairlane" Cobra in 1969 was only available with a
428 Cobra Jet, with no other engine option. Want a 4-4-2 Olds with a
350? Good Frickin' Luck. Speculation that Joe Consumer could *always*
bend the rules with an order sheet is nonsense.
However, nonsense falls far short of describing Gray Eagle's claim
of factory Hemi compacts (Colts and Arrows were built off-shore, for
starters.). You could not order Boss 429 Pintos or LS-6 Vegas, either.
All these cars were built after the fact.
CobraJet
MOPAR MAD VET
b----,s to do it and drive it. take a look at the fender tag, it will
show you what was in it from the factory, and it will also show delete
and a special order installed,this I DO know. and can prove it , learn
to read red neck before you give lip service joker. people like you
give falls lip service, I bet you are a jealous arm chair driver at one
time
BIG JIM 2000
MOPAR MAD VET
boys,rennecks of the net
BIG JIM 2000
MOPAR MAD VET
stupid elegy hahaha!!!!!
BIG JIM 2000
GLIPSS
Hemi... period
Show me one
hemidodge
> Shows how much you know, GTX could be ordered with a six if you had the
> b----,s to do it and drive it. take a look at the fender tag, it will
> show you what was in it from the factory, and it will also show delete
> and a special order installed,this I DO know. and can prove it , learn
> to read red neck before you give lip service joker. people like you
> give falls lip service, I bet you are a jealous arm chair driver at one
> time
>
> BIG JIM 2000
so let's see the proof.
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
you're really sincere, then you are just exposing to the world
your hardheadedness and TOTAL ignorance when it comes to
Mopars. A slant six being available in a GTX...yeah right!!!
H. User
P.S. Hey, did ya hear about the rare 72 Hemi'Cudas and Hemi
Challengers that were built? Yeah, really...none of none.
RedNeck from Hell
>Shows how much you know, GTX could be ordered with a six if you had the
>b----,s to do it
Show me one Pal!!!!!! I suppose next you are going to "try" to tell us the
Dodge R/T was the same way????
Other than that, pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.
Better start looking
N. Nelson
jtj...@webtv.net (MOPAR MAD VET) wrote:
> Shows how much you know, GTX could be ordered with a six if you had the
> b----,s to do it and drive it. take a look at the fender tag, it will
> show you what was in it from the factory, and it will also show delete
> and a special order installed,this I DO know. and can prove it , learn
> to read red neck before you give lip service joker. people like you
> give falls lip service, I bet you are a jealous arm chair driver at one
> time
>
> BIG JIM 2000
Not very nice Big Jim.....
You made coffee come out of my nose.
I guess in the most literal sense, yeah, you could have a dealer install a
slant six in a GTX, hell, you could have them install a Ford Flathead in
one.
But, not from the factory.
--
Neil Nelson
***********************************
Send Lawyers Guns and Money,
The shit has hit the fan. WZ
***********************************
jetski junkies
was customer oriented. You could get what ever you wanted to get. Unlike now,
were they tell you what your going to get. Now with new motors coming out in
cars and trucks, eg...the new 4.7(287) compared to the 5.2(318) in the Dodge
trucks. People are staying away from the new motor till it has had some time
on it, since the old reliable 318 is still an available option. In 67 with the
440, people may have stayed with the proven and reliable 383, till the 440
gained a good or bad rep.
Perry
Ken Simms
them to bend it in 1997 and they refused. The reason I asked is that they
did bend it for me in the seventies. Those days are gone and I
accept that.
However there was a post here from "Big Jim 2000" that stated there is proof
of a \6 1967 GTX
existing. Like some others who have responded, I want to see
the proof. I am not saying that it is impossible. I consistently see
verifiable proof of things that should not exist. I only ask the author to
support his statement.
--
Ken
"jetski junkies" <Perr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3915828...@ix.netcom.com...
Steve Lacker
Gray Eagle wrote:
> Ken Simms wrote
> > That is correct. 1967 383 GTX was not possible
> >
> > --
> > Ken
>
> Neither was a '71 Dodge Colt with a 426 Hemi in it..
> ..but in '71.. you could order one from the factory.
> Delivered 'As Is' ..not for street use.. etc..
>
> I'm fairly certain that if someone wanted to go thru the hassle they could
> have gotten a 383 GTX .. don't know if anyone did though :)
This topic borders on a holy war for some not to be named gurus who like to
claim that a particular car was "impossible." Its my personal opinion that
Chrysler would pretty much build anything that the order-takers and managers
thought was "cool" back in those days. Witness the 1968, 440 Super Commando
powered, 4-speed, FACTORY AIR, FACTORY CRUISE, Plymouth Fury VIP that I
recently was privileged to examine. That car is "technically impossible" yet
there she sits. I spoke with the origninal owner at great length about how
long he had to wait and how a Chrysler dealer who was a personal friend hand
carried the order to a dealers' conference and then persuaded the
appropriate people to sign off on the order.
That being said... I don't think anyone at the factory would think a 383 GTX
would be "cool" and I don't think one EVER happened. Why should it? You could
get a "383 GTX" by heavily optioning out a Satellite. The "exceptions" only
took place for cars that were impossible to get otherwise. Like
440/4-speed/AC/Cruise C-bodies and 426 Hemi Station Wagons :-)
-- Stephen G. Lacker
sglacker at texas dot net
"Turn off your blinding fog lights, hang up, and DRIVE!"
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
be] "cool", so NO such perversion was ever created by Chrysler.
H. User
Ohio John
of the 60's. On the 4-4-2 olds 350,(ever hear of a W-31)or a year
earlier(68'350 cu.in. RamRod)not really a 4-4-2 but it had all h/d parts
w/cutless badges,even 4.30 gears from factory,& crossed rods w/pistons
on ft.fender.
As for 67'G-tex 440 was standard,Hemi was only option.
http://community.webtv.net/plysat65/Satellite1965
NO-MOREGORE(ALGORE)NO-MORE !!!
CobraJet
John <plys...@webtv.net> wrote:
> ;I'm a Mopar man,but I've some general knowledge on lots of hi\po cars
> of the 60's. On the 4-4-2 olds 350,(ever hear of a W-31)or a year
> earlier(68'350 cu.in. RamRod)not really a 4-4-2 but it had all h/d parts
> w/cutless badges,even 4.30 gears from factory,& crossed rods w/pistons
> on ft.fender.
Yes, but none of those 350's are "4-4-2's". The W-31 was a separate
model (std gear was 3.91, BTW). The point is that there were NO 350
4-4-2's in the late 60's. If you wanted a 350, it would be a separate
model. (The *first* 4-4-2's were 330's, but there were no bigger
options. If you wanted a 425, you had to buy a Starfire or Dynamic 88).
If you wanted a Fairlane/Torino with a 351, you wound up with a GT, not
a Cobra. As someone else pointed out, if you wanted a 383 GTX, you got
an optioned out Sport Satellite. If you wanted a 225 GTX, you got a
Belvedere or maybe a regular Satellite.
> As for 67'G-tex 440 was standard,Hemi was only option.
That's it.
CobraJet
'68 Olds 4-4-2 400
'65 Olds Starfire 425
'69 Ford Cobra 428CJ MT
'69 Ford Cobra 428CJ AT
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/plysat65/Satellite1965
> NO-MOREGORE(ALGORE)NO-MORE !!!
N. Nelson
If I had ordered a 70 Hemi 'cuda convertible and specified that the hemi
be deleted in favor of a small block and the convertible top be deleted in
favor of a steel top, would it still be a hemi 'cuda convertible?
Not so much a holy war as it is a "if a tree falls in the woods and no one
is there to hear it" arguement. Since by definition, a GTX in 67 was a B
body with X trim package, Y suspension package, Z engine options, anything
other then XYZ precludes it fom being a GTX.
My 70 Challenger was titled as a 4 door. Didn't make it a one of none car.
jetski junkies
limits, that would have been down right sacrilegious. ;-)
Perry
Ken Simms wrote:
Gray Eagle
> Go spank your monkey and do something useful instead of spreading lies in
here.
In my opinion.. judging from what I have read of your posts,
..you are somewhat illiterate, a bit ignorant, moderately stupid,
..fairly uneducated.. and prone to blurt uncontrollably.
Let me try and respond in kind, so you understand:
You are my monkey, boy.
You are the loud mouth 'rider'
.. never knowing enough to build a fast car,
..never making enough to buy a fast car,
..always 'riding' in one .. blurting uncontrollably.
You're the guy I used to enjoy burying by 7 cars on any Saturday street
race..
..just after you told 200 or so people you were the fastest car there.
..and me *with* mufflers on, *and* street tires.
You are inept in all things, save making a fool of yourself publicly.
Carry on.
-GE
Hemi4268
Just thought I would add my 2 cents. I think I know where the confussion might
come from. I have a 63 Catalog on the Dodge Polara. The Dodge Polara was
Chryslers midsize B body at the time weighing in at about 3200 lbs.
Well the catalog says all motors and transmissions were available to all
bodies. All bodies meaning 2dr 4dr convertables and wagons.
Motors available
slant 6
318/230 2bbl
383/270hp 2bbl
383/330 4bbl with HIPO police cam (their words)
426 2/4's short ram 415hp
426 24's short ram 425hp
Transmissions 3 speed 4 speed manual and 3 speed auto.
3 and 4 speed manual came with 3.55 gears and the auto came with 3.23 gears.
all 426 models came with 3.91 gears.
Not so in the Plymouth 67 Catalog.
Not all motors were available in all car lines. GTX standard motor was the
440/375 and optional 426/425.
So yes, at different times in several years production, Chrysler offered all
motors in all cars. They seem to stop doing this when they came out with
package cars in 66 and 67 model years.
Larry
GLIPSS
CobraJet
<gli...@aol.com> wrote:
> The first year 442 had a 330 inch engine.>
OK, help me out a little. Didn't I say that below?
CobraJet
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Yeah, Cobra Jet touched on that, but a 350 *was* available in the 4-4-2
starting in 1972.
D. Rosenberg
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Steve Lacker <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
>
>
> This topic borders on a holy war for some not to be named gurus who
like to
> claim that a particular car was "impossible." Its my personal opinion
that
> Chrysler would pretty much build anything that the order-takers and
managers
> thought was "cool" back in those days. Witness the 1968, 440 Super
Commando
> powered, 4-speed, FACTORY AIR, FACTORY CRUISE, Plymouth Fury VIP that
I
> recently was privileged to examine. That car is "technically
impossible" yet
> there she sits.
I disagree. The 440 was available in this car, the 4-speed was available
in this car, so what's the problem? This car, my friend, is a factory
freak. It has all the components that were normally available in this
car, but it is in a bodystyle that that does not usually have that type
of equipment. No different from a 383 4-speed wagon.
Hence, a 383 GTX would not make sense, especially since the marketing
effort for the GTX was to build an image to compete with the GTO, 4-4-2,
and SS396.
Steve Lacker
rose...@pilot.msu.edu wrote:
> In article <39162704...@spam.thanks>,
> Steve Lacker <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
> >
> > recently was privileged to examine. That car is "technically
> impossible" yet
> > there she sits.
> <snip>
>
> I disagree. The 440 was available in this car, the 4-speed was available
> in this car, so what's the problem? This car, my friend, is a factory
> freak.
Ahh, but it is *widely* claimed that AC and a 4-speed *never* mixed from
the factory on a HiPo big block oustide of Chrysler 300 letter cars. Even
on B-bodies, let alone late 60's C-bodies.
CobraJet
wrote:
> In article <20000508120527...@ng-cl1.aol.com>,
> gli...@aol.com (GLIPSS) wrote:
> > The first year 442 had a 330 inch engine.>
> >
>
> Yeah, Cobra Jet touched on that, but a 350 *was* available in the 4-4-2
> starting in 1972.
Yes, notice how I said *late* 60's. Gotta keep my butt covered, you
know. Sadly, the guy who went through all the trouble of starting up a
Cutlass newsgroup (Keith Dickson), essentially abandoned it shortly
thereafter. Too bad, as Olds' contribution to the musclecar era was
pretty noteable. Oh well.
CobraJet
>
> D. Rosenberg
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
who like to claim that a particular car was "impossible.""
Well, here's a guru that will be named and he is "THE GURU" when
it comes to Mopar production numbers, namely Galen V. Govier. I
quote the following from his 1966-68 Chrysler Corporation
Production Option Code Book [Third Printing - June, 1993]:
1967 Plymouth Belvedere GTX
Total production: 12,010
2 Dr. Hdtp. production: 11,330
Convertible production: 680
Total shipped w/426 Hemi: 733
Total shipped w/440-4bbl: 11,277
"Its my personal opinion that Chrysler would pretty much build
anything that the order-takers and managers thought was "cool"
back in those days. Witness the 1968, 440 Super Commando
powered, 4-speed, FACTORY AIR, FACTORY CRUISE, Plymouth Fury VIP
that I recently was privileged to examine. That car
is "technically impossible" yet there she sits. I spoke with the
origninal owner at great length about how long he had to wait
and how a Chrysler dealer who was a personal friend hand carried
the order to a dealers' conference and then persuaded the
appropriate people to sign off on the order".
As far as unavailable combinations go, the trend "back then" was
to option UP [i.e., to a larger engine, etc.] like your
aforementioned example, rather than vice versa.
Home User
Hemi4268
Sometime Chrysler did have special runs.
When I was a young lad I saw a whole line up of 70 Sport Satellites with N
code Road Runner 383 motors with 4 speeds and bench seats. They were at North
Hills Chrysler Plymouth in Pittsburgh sometime in the fall of 1970.
Must of been 20 of them all B5 blue. These cars also didn't exist but I guess
if dealership ordered enough of them, Chrysler built them.
Larry
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
bbl. engine]:
[680 total]
29 shipped w/3-spd. trans.
185 shipped w/4-spd. "
466 shipped w/727 TF "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gray Eagle
to Mopar production numbers, namely Galen V. Govier. I quote the following
from his 1966-68 Chrysler Corporation Production Option Code Book [Third
Printing - June, 1993]:
>
> 1967 Plymouth Belvedere GTX
>
> Total production: 12,010
>
> 2 Dr. Hdtp. production: 11,330
>
> Convertible production: 680
>
> Total shipped w/426 Hemi: 733
>
> Total shipped w/440-4bbl: 11,277
So I'm guessin there weren't any '67 383 GTX's.
-GE -grin-
Hemi4268
That right, but these were N code 383/4 335 hp magnum cam motors and not the
383/4 325hp standard cam versions.
If you look at the book, the Road Runner motor was only available in the
Roadrunner and Cuda. Not the Sport Satellite or Fury or anything else.
Larry
Larry
Steve Lacker
Gray Eagle wrote:
And in THIS case, I agree with "the guru" despite the high bit-error rate in
some of his publications :-)
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
error rate in some of his publications :-)"
I disagree. IMHO Galen's research is right on the money.
Steve Lacker
home...@cyberdude.com wrote:
> "And in THIS case, I agree with "the guru" despite the high bit-
> error rate in some of his publications :-)"
>
> I disagree. IMHO Galen's research is right on the money.
Most of it is great.
Except when it isn't.
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
motors and not the 383/4 325hp standard cam versions."
RP23NO - 1970 Sport Satellite 2 Dr. Hardtop. RM21N0 and RM23N0 -
1970 Road Runner coupe and hardtop, respectively. You are
incorrect my friend, these cars were available with the 335 HP N-
code engines. There were no 325 HP 383's in 1970. The standard
cam engines were the 2-bbl. versions.
"If you look at the book, the Road Runner motor was only
available in the Roadrunner and Cuda. Not the Sport Satellite or
Fury or anything else."
I did. It was available in everything even down to the lowly 4-
dr. 1970 Belvedere sedan [RL41N0] and 2 seat station wagon
[RL45N0] by the way, of which 7 were built [3 manuals and 4
autos].
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
don't you cite some specific examples?
Hemi4268
Then I guess I stand corrected. No 325 HP 383 motors available in 1970 at
least in the Plymouth line. Although, didn't the ebodies have the three
versions of the 383. The 2 and 4 bbl standard cam version and one mag cam
version.
Larry
RedNeck from Hell
bbl standard cam version and one mag cam
>version.
Yes, Larry, that is correct, there were 3 383's available. The 2 bbl was rated
at 290hp, std 4 bbl @ 330 with 9.5 comp and same cam as 2 bbl, a .425 & .437,
the high performance "magnum" had 10.5 comp and the .450 lift cam rated at 335
hp
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm
Happiness is driving an ass kicking big block Mopar
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
Please do your homework before you state something as fact.
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
engines when installed in standard non-performance models were
rated at 330 HP for some reason, but the VIN tag on the dash
still reads "N" in the engine designation.
If you look at the VIN tag on the inner left fender panel both
330 & 335 HP versions use the same E63 code. The only other 383
listed for 1970 is "L" and that denotes a 2-bbl. engine [E61].
RedNeck from Hell
>You are wrong. Don't mislead the man with incorrect info.
>Please do your homework before you state something as fact.
>
>
Right from the Challenger/Cuda manual.
You had better do some homework
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
Steve Lacker
home...@cyberdude.com wrote:
> Anyone can make claims, especially in a forum such as this. Why
> don't you cite some specific examples?
As I've said before, this gets into holy war territory fast (which is where you
appear to want it to go). Galen has done a lot of good for the Mopar community
and I do *not* want to detract from that.
All that being said, there are errors in some of his publications (many of
which I'm sure he's aware of and will correct in future revisions) and his work
is an *ongoing* project that he will freely admit is subject to change in light
of new discoveries. WAY too many people take some of his stuff as "written in
stone." Just because he's done a great body of reasearch does *not* absolve any
of us of the responsibility of cross-checking him and doing our own research on
our cars and other cars using other sources as well. Anyone who relies only on
one source of information is making a STUPID mistake, whether they're
researching history, nuclear physics, medicine, or muscle cars. Thats really
the only point I have to make.
Ken Simms
The best examples are found when comparing one edition to a newer edition.
Don't get me wrong, I am deeply appreciative of Galen's work as evidenced by
my owning several of his manuals [which I would not part with], but he gets
new information at times and he changes his manuals based on the new
information when appropriate.
I think its the nature of the beast. Mopar did not do well at keeping track
of data such as Galen has compiled.
Like a friend of mine says " I will NOT change my mind, however I will make
a new decision based on new information" :-)
Peace,
Ken
"home...@cyberdude.com" <homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:0a6c1790...@usw-ex0107-055.remarq.com...
> Anyone can make claims, especially in a forum such as this. Why
> don't you cite some specific examples?
>
RedNeck from Hell
>
only, they list that 383 as available for Cuda/Challenger. I have never seen
or heard of one with that 383, but how would you know if you had one????
Everything externally would be the same and the engine code would show 383 HP,
I suppose which could be the other 4 bbl one. Every other bit of information I
have looked at is correct, as far as I know it from those days, so this may be
also. This engine is reference under the general engine specs chart and also
in the camshaft specs, so that's all I know!!!
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
[E61] 2-bbl. engine and the "N" code [E63] HiPo 4-bbl. engine.
1970 383 Specifications:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
290 HP. 2-bbl version
compression ratio: 8.7:1
camshaft specifications:
intake: 256 deg. duration
exhaust: 260 deg. duration
intake: .425" valve lift
exhaust: .435" valve lift
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*330 HP & 335 HP 4-bbl version [both "N" code according to VIN]
9.5:1 compression ratio
camshaft specifications:
intake: 268 deg. duration
exhaust: 284 deg. duration
intake: .450 valve lift
exhaust: .458 valve lift
No 10.5:1 383 engines listed. Only 440+6bbl. came with
aforementioned compression ratio. High performance 440-4bbl.
engine had 9.7:1 ratio.
Source: 1970 Plymouth Shop Manual & 1970 Chrysler Mopar [dealer]
Parts Catalog.
*For some unknown reason the "N" code [E63] 383 4-bbl. engine
when installed in non-performance models i.e. Sport Satellite
etc. was rated 5 HP less than the 335 HP listed for performance
models such as Road Runner, et al.
Based on the above information gathered from official Chrysler
Corporation literature, one can logically conclude that 1970
Sport Satellites and other non-performance models indeed were
available with the same [E63] 383 high performance engine
installed in Road Runners and 'Cudas.
Case closed.
homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid
(which is where you appear to want it to go)."
No, I just want the FACTS to be presented for a change in this
newsgroup, not some ASININE fantasy of a slant six powered 1967
GTX being built, 383 HP engines available from the factory with
10.5:1 compression or an even MORE ABSURD 426 Hemi Dodge Colt
being produced by Detroit. People who spread this type of
disinformation are doing a huge disservice to those neophyte
Mopar fans out there and should be ashamed of themselves.
"Galen has done a lot of good for the Mopar community and I do
*not* want to detract from that. All that being said, there are
errors in some of his publications (many of which I'm sure he's
aware of and will correct in future revisions) and his work is
an *ongoing* project that he will freely admit is subject to
change in light of new discoveries."
YOU still FAIL to cite ANY examples of HIS errors, if not to
redeem yourself but for the edification of the group. I'm not
saying he's foolproof, no mortals are. Once again, I ask YOU
for some proof! I'm starting to think that you have some
personal animus towards the man for some unknown reason and are
expressing your contempt for him by attacking me for quoting
production figures from his books.
"WAY too many people take some of his stuff as "written in
stone."
Not I. I also use a great deal of [un]common sense and close to
30 years of personal experience "foolin' with these MoPars" to
sift through information whenever I feel the info being
presented is questionable and/or contradictory.
"Just because he's done a great body of reasearch does *not*
absolve any of us of the responsibility of cross-checking him
and doing our own research on our cars and other cars using
other sources as well."
Precisely my modus operandi.
"Anyone who relies only on one source of information is making a
STUPID mistake, whether they're researching history, nuclear
physics, medicine, or muscle cars. Thats really the only point I
have to make."
I resent your insinuation. In addition to Galen's fine decoding
books, I possess Chrysler Corporation dealership parts books,
shop manuals and miscellaneous literature written by "other"
authors for all Dodge and Plymouth vehicles from the 1966-71
supercar era that serves as an INVALUABLE reference database.
In addition, before opening my mouth and to avoid putting my
foot into it [like some of the obstinate, prideful folks in this
NG who don't want to be confused by the facts 'cause they've got
their minds made up], I make it my business to double check all
available sources at my disposal before responding to posted
questions.
On the occasion where I'm proven incorrect, I take a BIG bite of
that humble pie and concede to my mistake[s].
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
home...@cyberdude.com <homeuser...@cyberdude.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Based on the above information gathered from official Chrysler
> Corporation literature, one can logically conclude that 1970
> Sport Satellites and other non-performance models indeed were
> available with the same [E63] 383 high performance engine
> installed in Road Runners and 'Cudas.
>
> Case closed.
>
Uh, not quite.
I believe Redneck is right. I'd have to check my sources, but I think
there was 290, 330, and 335 versions of the 383. In fact, I think if you
ordered a 383 with AC, you got the 330 version, although it wasn't
listed as such on paper.
rose...@pilot.msu.edu
Steve Lacker <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
>
> As I've said before, this gets into holy war territory fast (which is
where you
> appear to want it to go). Galen has done a lot of good for the Mopar
community
> and I do *not* want to detract from that.
>
> All that being said, there are errors in some of his publications
(many of
> which I'm sure he's aware of and will correct in future revisions) and
his work
> is an *ongoing* project that he will freely admit is subject to change
in light
> of new discoveries. WAY too many people take some of his stuff as
"written in
> stone." Just because he's done a great body of reasearch does *not*
absolve any
> of us of the responsibility of cross-checking him and doing our own
research on
> our cars and other cars using other sources as well. Anyone who relies
only on
> one source of information is making a STUPID mistake, whether they're
> researching history, nuclear physics, medicine, or muscle cars. Thats
really
> the only point I have to make.
>
Steve, I agree with you 100%.
Galen gets most of his info from production reports from Chrysler. These
are copies of copies of copies (etc.) where things have gotten lost in
the translation. Chrysler Historical Services (or whatever they are
called) don't even keep these things because they are deemed inaccurate.
Ma Mopar also did funny things in certain years, which is why 1967
engine figures are hard to come by or 1971 colors are hard to determine
for specific models.
Also, these reports are statistical. Whenever someone gives a production
figure, it can only be a ballpark figure within the bell curve.
A lot of people combine options to say their car is 1 of ??? with a
certain combo, but this cannot be done. It is statistically incorrect to
do that.
Lastly, Galen is not a good writer. I often end up being confused by
some of the stuff he says. Often, he starts on a subject assuming we
know what he's talking about - I recall recently something on Charger
500's that made me utterly confused. He didn't take the time to explain
and just assumed the reader knew what he was talking about.
Galen has done some neat stuff. However, he has made mistakes because he
is human and because his material is unreliable. I know this because I
have worked in the auto industry too and I have seen a lot of info that
doesn't jibe with each other. Learn what you read but take it with a
grain of salt.
Gray Eagle
> No, I just want the FACTS to be presented for a change in this
newsgroup, not some ASININE fantasy of a slant six powered 1967 GTX being
built, 383 HP engines available from the factory with 10.5:1 compression or
an even MORE ABSURD 426 Hemi Dodge Colt being produced by Detroit. People
who spread this type of disinformation are doing a huge disservice to those
neophyte
Mopar fans out there and should be ashamed of themselves.
Well. apparantly the fact is there was a '71 Hemi Colt available..although
not through detroit ..today it would compare to the Saleen Mustang, the V-10
Hennessey Durango or the Lingenfelter Viper...(although these vehicles *are*
street legal)
..and I have no doubt that young kids like I was then are being told by
savvy salespeople that the cars mentioned are available.. for enough money..
to anyone that wants one.
I also have no doubt that in 30 years someone on a newsgroup will hammer
another for remembering that you *could* actually go into a dealer, and
*buy* one.
-GE
Carl Beyer
I have met Galen a couple of times through my mechanic who is good
friends with him. Funny enough, he is the first to admit the falibility
of his work.
Production numbers and such are pretty accurate. But he is the first to
tell you that nothing is ever a for sure thing. He sites countless
examples of canadian cars that the fender tags and builds are completely
bizarre. And even american cars that had freaky build orders. Maybe,
just maybe (and I know it is a stretch) the guy or gal who bought this
car was scared of the 440. " I want the GTX, but can I get it with an
engine with less power". Ask Galen, you will hear that this stuff
happened all the time.
I am not sure I remember how this thread even started, but the
conversation has gotten ugly and stupid over nothing.
Carl
--
Please feel free to view my cars restoration story at
Steve Lacker
home...@cyberdude.com wrote:
> YOU still FAIL to cite ANY examples of HIS errors, if not to
> redeem yourself but for the edification of the group. I'm not
> saying he's foolproof, no mortals are. Once again, I ask YOU
> for some proof! I'm starting to think that you have some
> personal animus towards the man for some unknown reason and are
> expressing your contempt for him by attacking me for quoting
> production figures from his books.
Look, if I had some personal animosity toward him, I'd sit here and rip him a
new one with every error I can find. I don't want to do that- I'm merely
encouraging people to check, crosscheck, and not treat any one source as Gospel
with these old cars. And CERTAINLY, never look at a car that their own eyes
tell them is genuine and claim its not simply because its not in his database.
You may have just discovered something Galen hasn't! Be careful, but don't be
foolish.
> Not I. I also use a great deal of [un]common sense and close to
> 30 years of personal experience "foolin' with these MoPars" to
> sift through information whenever I feel the info being
> presented is questionable and/or contradictory.
Then we're coming from exactly the same place. What's your disagreement with
me?
> "Just because he's done a great body of reasearch does *not*
> absolve any of us of the responsibility of cross-checking him
> and doing our own research on our cars and other cars using
> other sources as well."
>
> Precisely my modus operandi.
Then we're doing the same thing. What's your disagreement with me?
> "Anyone who relies only on one source of information is making a
> STUPID mistake, whether they're researching history, nuclear
> physics, medicine, or muscle cars. Thats really the only point I
> have to make."
>
> I resent your insinuation.
What am I insinuating? You yourself indicate that you agree with my statement
above, by saying that what I describe is your "modus operandi."
I never said "home user" is stupid. I said that a poor methodology is stupid,
no matter who uses that methodology. What is your disagreement with this?
Everything you typed above *seems* to indicate that you agree with what I say.
moparsamd...@gmail.com
65Val
On Friday, April 28, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, jetski junkies wrote:
> In 67....I believe most were 383 cars, the rest were Hemi's. A GTX is a
> Satellite. Without any mention of GTX on the title.
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> RedNeck from Hell wrote:
>
> > >I bought a 67, to restore, it has the GTX tags
> > >and it is a 383 car, with a 4 gear,
> >
> > GTX's did not have 383's