Knightly Oaths, Squires, Journeymen
gaet...@aol.com
Greetings....
Although not a member of the SCA, I do acknowledge the amount of knowledge
that this organization has about medieval practices, which is why I come
to this forum now.
I am doing some research on Knightly Oaths, and was hopoing that some of
you might be able to give me some examples of how Knightly Oaths were
formed, what they entailed when inacted, and how they were delivered.
Also, am I correct that Squires, too, had oaths that they swore to their
knight? Would it be possible to gain more information on this?
I have come across a reference of a Journeyman's Rite known as "Walking
The Table"; I presume that this is akin to some sort of "Rite of Passage"
to the Journeyman status. Is there anyone that could give me more
information on this rite? How was it formed? What was done during this
rite?
I thank you all for your time and considerations in this matter. EMail
replies would be preferable to UseNet replies, but I'll the reply any way
I can get it.
Also, I am not adverse to doing my own research on these matters. If you
can suggest and written works for me to pour over, I would appreciate it
all the same.
Until that time....
Josh Mittleman
gaet...@aol.com wrote:
> I am doing some research on Knightly Oaths, and was hopoing that some of
> you might be able to give me some examples of how Knightly Oaths were
> formed, what they entailed when inacted, and how they were delivered.
I know of two kinds of sources for oaths: the statutes of knightly orders
and manuals of chivalry. You can find discussion of the statutes of many
orders in "Knights of the Crown" by J Darcy Boulton. Several manuals of
chivalry have been published in English in recent years; I saw an edition
of Geofrroi de Charny's "Book of Chivalry" at Barnes & Noble this weekend.
Here are some others; there are more recent editions of some of them, but
these are the references I've got on-line:
Ramon Llull, "Book of the Order of Chivalry" (Translated by William
Caxton. Edited by A. T. P. Byles. London, 1926: Early English Text Society)
Honore' Bonet, "The Tree of Battles" (Translated by G. W.
Coopland. Cambridge, 1949: Harvard University Press)
> I have come across a reference of a Journeyman's Rite known as "Walking
> The Table"; I presume that this is akin to some sort of "Rite of Passage"
> to the Journeyman status. Is there anyone that could give me more
> information on this rite?
The only place I've heard that phrase is in Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels.
Did she base that on something historical?
I don't know any material on ceremonies for guild promotions. I do have a
little bit on apprenticeship contracts, if that interests you.
Arval
Walter Daniels
In article <19970211045...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gaet...@aol.com wrote:
>Greetings....
>Although not a member of the SCA, I do acknowledge the amount of knowledge
>that this organization has about medieval practices, which is why I come
>to this forum now.
>I have come across a reference of a Journeyman's Rite known as "Walking
>The Table"; I presume that this is akin to some sort of "Rite of Passage"
>to the Journeyman status. Is there anyone that could give me more
>information on this rite? How was it formed? What was done during this
>rite?
While by no means an expert, this is based on certain social customs. In any
group, the most important sit at the "head" of the table(s). In a "lodge"
(union/guild/etc.) the "masters" of the craft would sit at the head, or
closest to the "front" of the meeting area. Many "tables" were really long
planks on supports, the head could be some distance away. At the "foot" would
be apprentices of various levels. Next would be Journeymen and finally
"master" craftsmen. To signify acceptance the journeyman would receive his
"membership" (proof of status) from the ranking member. Thus he would "walk
the table" to reach the "master" of the guild and publicly receive his new
status. A good analogy would be graduation ceremonies today. The individual
craftsmen said yea or nay to the journeyman's "master piece", but this was
*public* recognition of the new status.
As far as Knight/squire oaths, they were a form of fealty to an overlord
(who granted the status), and a promise to live up to certain standards. I
suspect that they were analogous to our modern National Guard Units, combined
with tax collecting. Brrrr. Paramilitary IRS units, is a scary thought(except
that could define the BATF).
>I thank you all for your time and considerations in this matter. EMail
>replies would be preferable to UseNet replies, but I'll the reply any way
>I can get it.
>Also, I am not adverse to doing my own research on these matters. If you
>can suggest and written works for me to pour over, I would appreciate it
>all the same.
>Until that time....
>
HTH a little,
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Arval d'Espas Nord
Walter Daniels wrote:
> In any group, the most important sit at the "head" of the table(s). In a
> "lodge" (union/guild/etc.) the "masters" of the craft would sit at the
> head, or closest to the "front" of the meeting area. Many "tables" were
> really long planks on supports, the head could be some distance away. At
> the "foot" would be apprentices of various levels. Next would be
> Journeymen and finally "master" craftsmen. To signify acceptance the
> journeyman would receive his "membership" (proof of status) from the
> ranking member. Thus he would "walk the table" to reach the "master" of
> the guild and publicly receive his new status.
Do you know of a source which dates this practice to our period?
> As far as Knight/squire oaths, they were a form of fealty to an overlord
> (who granted the status), and a promise to live up to certain standards.
This generalization cannot be supported by medieval evidence. We simply
don't have enough examples of the oaths taken by individual knights to be
able to say much about those oaths. We basically only know what the
theorists of chivalry thought knights _ought_ to swear. The notion that
knights swore to follow a code of conduct is very late-period in origin,
and was probably only sporadically practiced even then. The notion that
knighthood and fealty are inextricably connected is a romantic fiction
which has been institutionalized in the Society, but it has only limited
relation to history.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mit...@panix.com
Joe Pinegar
Arval d'Espas Nord <mit...@panix.com> wrote in article
<5dsnj5$a...@panix4.panix.com>...
>
> Walter Daniels wrote:
>
> > As far as Knight/squire oaths, they were a form of fealty to an
overlord
> > (who granted the status), and a promise to live up to certain
standards.
>
> This generalization cannot be supported by medieval evidence. We simply
> don't have enough examples of the oaths taken by individual knights to be
> able to say much about those oaths. We basically only know what the
> theorists of chivalry thought knights _ought_ to swear. The notion that
> knights swore to follow a code of conduct is very late-period in origin,
> and was probably only sporadically practiced even then. The notion that
> knighthood and fealty are inextricably connected is a romantic fiction
> which has been institutionalized in the Society, but it has only limited
> relation to history.
>
Warren Hollister, part of a series edited by Lacey Baldwin Smith. Fealty
and feudalism is discussed (in comparison with the Anglo-saxon system). In
the chapter on Norman England (Chapter 4, page 95 of my copy 1966 ed.)
there is the following feudal oath:
I, John of Toul, affirm that I am the vassal of the Lady Beatrice,
countess of Troyes, and of her son Theobald, count of Champagne,
against every creature living or dead, excepting my allegiance to
Lord Enjourand of Coucy, Lord John of Arcis, and the count of
Grandpre. If it should happen that the count of Grandpre should
be at war with the countess and count of Champagne in his own
quarrel, I will aid the count of Grandpre in my own person, and
will aid the count and countess of Champagne by sending them the
knights whose service I owe them from the fief which I hold of them.
Doesn't sound much like an SCA oath, does it? Unfortunately, Mr. Hollister
does not give immediate context for this oath, and I don't have time to
re-read the chapter to glean one.
As a more general oath, here's one that Charlemagne used in 802:
By this oath I promise to be faithful to the lord Charles, the
most pious emperor, son of King Pepin and Bertha, as a vassal
should rightfully be to his lord, for the preservation of his
kingdom and his rights. And I will keep and hope to keep this
oath which I have sworn as I know it and understand it, from
this day henceforward, with the help of God, the creator of
heaven and earth, and of these sacred relics.
from "Feudalism", F.L. Ganshof, Harper Torchbooks 3rd ed. 1964
This book, BTW, is excruciatingly detailed on the subject of feudalism, if
you can find it. Good luck.
--
Asgeirr Gunnarsson
mka Joe Pinegar
pine...@swbell.net
Steve McDonald
In article <01bc1970$caea1020$3103c1cf@viking-menace> "Joe Pinegar" <pine...@swbell.net> writes:
>A good quick example is from "The Making of England--55BC to 1399" by C.
>Warren Hollister, part of a series edited by Lacey Baldwin Smith. Fealty
>and feudalism is discussed (in comparison with the Anglo-saxon system). In
>the chapter on Norman England (Chapter 4, page 95 of my copy 1966 ed.)
>there is the following feudal oath:
<nice oath of fealty deleted>
>Doesn't sound much like an SCA oath, does it? Unfortunately, Mr. Hollister
>does not give immediate context for this oath, and I don't have time to
>re-read the chapter to glean one.
Actually, it does sound very much like some fealty oaths I have heard
in the SCA. Not many, but some.
However, this is beside the point. Arval was saying that we don't know
what *knights* swore, as distinct from fealty oaths. Your example is
of a good fealty oath, but does not address the question. Do you have
examples of oaths sworn by knights as knights, regarding their knighthood,
as opposed to their fealty?
Stefan Skywatcher
(Steve McDonald)
mcdo...@mit.edu
Josh Mittleman
Greetings from Arval!
Thanks to Asgeirr for posting the great oaths. I wish more people in the
Society would do that kind of stuff! (Myself, I once swore fealty to the
Viceroy of Ostgardr for all lands that I held within his desmesne,
promising to provide him with one fourth of all cheese produced on those
estates each year.)
Stefan Skywatcher replied:
> Arval was saying that we don't know what *knights* swore, as distinct
> from fealty oaths. Your example is of a good fealty oath, but does not
> address the question. Do you have examples of oaths sworn by knights as
> knights, regarding their knighthood, as opposed to their fealty?
Keep in mind that we're not even sure that knights swore anything regarding
their knighthood. We know that the theorists thought they ought to do so,
and it is virtually certain that their rubrics were followed in at least
some cases in later period; but I have never seen anything definitive about
the practice of the ceremony of knighthood in the High Middle Ages. Knights
in that period would have sworn fealty for lands they held from their
overlords or would for a monetary fee they received in return for their
service; but that is not quite the same thing as an oath sworn _for_ one's
knighthood.
===========================================================================
Joe Pinegar
Steve McDonald <mcdo...@athena.mit.edu> wrote in article
<5dv7b0$p...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>...> However, this is beside the point. Arval was saying that we don't know
> what *knights* swore, as distinct from fealty oaths. Your example is
> of a good fealty oath, but does not address the question. Do you have
> examples of oaths sworn by knights as knights, regarding their
knighthood,
> as opposed to their fealty?
Sorry about that. I was cross-posting that stuff from an answer I gave to
someone on the Rialto.
I'm not sure what you mean by "what *knights* swore". Knights in the SCA
swear a generic fealty oath because it was someone's idea of what to do a
long time ago, and has continued as tradition.
Are you asking what oath they swore during their knighting ceremony? These
oaths might be typified by the knights of the Bath or Garter. As far as I
know, in period, our idea of swearing to uphold lofty ideals is a victorian
notion of what knighthood was about in the middle ages. I've not been able
to find specific examples (and I'm still reading) but I would suspect that
the only ideals knights swore to uphold were religious ones.
Sidney Painter in _French Chivalry_ discusses orders of knighthood, and
this seems to have originated mid-twelfth century, as
"an oath-bound brotherhood of chosen men posessing certain qualities and
admitting certain obligations."
His book is divided into sections on Feudal Chivalry and Religious
Chivalry. His opinion seems to be that identifiable orders of chivalry are
pretty much associated with religious ideals. He quotes from John of
Salisbury,
But what is the office of the duly ordained soldiery? To defend
the Church, to assail infidelity, to venerate the priesthood, to
protect the poor from injuries, to pacify the province, to pour
out their blood for their brothers (as the formula of their oath
instructs them), and, if need be, to lay down their lives....
But this is an outsider's view. Any knight in the SCA can tell you that
there's always someone ready to tell you what lofty ideals of theirs they
expect you to uphold.
From reading discussions on the Calontir list with Duke Finnvarr (mundanely
a history professor with a large body of knowledge on this subject) what
passes for fealty and homage in the SCA would be completely alien in the
Middle Ages.
If you're just interested in what a Knight's oath would have looked like,
I'll e-mail him and ask.
Arval d'Espas Nord
Greetings from Arval! Asgeirr wrote:
> Knights in the SCA swear a generic fealty oath because it was someone's
> idea of what to do a long time ago, and has continued as tradition.
Knights may swear a generic fealty oath where you live, but not in the
East. Here oaths are almost always personalized.
> Are you asking what oath they swore during their knighting ceremony? These
> oaths might be typified by the knights of the Bath or Garter.
We cannot expect those oaths to be typical, for several reasons. First,
keep in mind that entry to an order like the Garter did not confer
knighthood; prospective companions had to be knights even to be considered
for entry.
Second, the companions of these orders represented only a very small
fraction of the chivalry of their time, and only the _very_ highest ranking
and best connected nobles could even hope to be members. Their behavior
cannot be considered typical of all knights.
Third, their oaht imposed special responsibilities on the companions which
were clearly understood to be far above and beyond the duties of normal
knights. Companions entered into a special relationship with the king and
the other companions, and accepted all sorts of duties and rules that did
not apply to anyone else.
> As far as I know, in period, our idea of swearing to uphold lofty ideals
> is a victorian notion of what knighthood was about in the middle ages.
Not according to the theorists of chivalry. Their versions of the knight's
oath and duties embodied extremely lofty ideals. The open question is how
often those oaths were used as models for real ceremonies.
> His opinion seems to be that identifiable orders of chivalry are pretty
> much associated with religious ideals.
In the 12th century, yes. But later orders included purely secular
confraternities. Some were essentially political in nature, some economic,
and some just recreational.