"Hams to the Rescue After Katrina" MSNBC News Article
Charlie
Mac
"Charlie" <ch...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11htoge...@news.supernews.com...
K4YZ
I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.
Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
laid waste.
73
Steve, K4YZ
Jerry
"K4YZ" <k4...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126247960.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yeah! Where's all those fellers "a-standin' by to pass that 'ere
'eee-mer-gen-cee' traffic thar". We down, we off the key, we gone (thar)"
:)
J
>
an_old_friend
K4YZ wrote:
> Mac wrote:
> > Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
> >
> > "Charlie" <ch...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:11htoge...@news.supernews.com...
> > > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Charlie - AD5TH
> > > www.ad5th.com
>
> I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
> Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
> of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
> MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
> Amateur Radio.
No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
Roger Conroy
Methinks a very strongly worded letter from ARRL to the head honcho at
Motorola might be a good idea.
73
and special kudos to all those volunteers.
ZR3RC
LenAn...@ieee.org
>Mac wrote:
>> Great work and excellent publicity...cya Mac
>>
>> "Charlie" <ch...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:11htoge...@news.supernews.com...
>> > 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Charlie - AD5TH
>> > www.ad5th.com
>
> I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
>Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
>of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
>MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
>Amateur Radio.
"Patriarch?!?" :-) Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable. :-)
"Waned?!?" :-) Life goes on 2000 miles away from the Katrina
hurricane devastation.
Ahem...the "MAJOR media" are reporting as much as possible about
the Gulf Coast damage. That is of considerable quantity.
Reporters, journalists, telecasters are all on-the-scene covering
an enormous area of extensive damage with many, many "human
interest" stories appearing. Anybody with a working TV set can
see/hear that; anybody with a working BC receiver can hear that.
Anyone able to read a major newspaper can read that. Anyone with
a working PC and an Internet connection can find that out.
What Dudly is doing in here is just ordinary FLAMING because he
is obsessed with FIGHTING. [wannabe-warriors get that way...]
Yes, stories have been filed with newsservices on amateur radio
doing their part in aiding the relief effort, but are those
relief actions of amateurs of any notable effect on society as
a whole? Health and welfare messages have not been shown to "save
lives" on any large scale...a large scale such as a MILLION
displaced and homeless citizens in the Gulf states affected by
Katrina. Perhaps nearer to two MILLION people displace, homeless,
or dead when the tallies on human lives is more complete. The
scale of damage is too vast, too shattering to millions more.
Thousands and thousands of volunteers and paid workers are very
busy at the moment, doing many things of DIRECT AID to the
homeless and displaced, all WITHOUT any direct "need" to do radio
communications about "health and welfare messages." That's
important work. MOST (very nearly all) of that work can be done
WITHOUT a lot of radio communications. Coordination of effort
does require communications of some kind, but the "coordination"
of ALL agencies, paid and volunteer, were simply NOT prepared to
deal with the magnitude of damage and destruction that happened.
That includes amateur radio, folks, whether it smarts your little
egos or not. Did anyone really think that a few dozen hams
could really make a "difference" by sending health and welfare
messages from millions to other millions? No doubt the self-
proclaimed amateur patriots far from the disaster scene were
happy as larks to see the tiniest factoid of their Great Help
to the victims of hurricane Katrina. They have waved their
banners, cheered as loudly (and abusively) as possible, pinned
invisible medals of valor to their equally invisible uniforms
of service they wear in the newsgroups.
But, things eventually get sorted out and the REAL coordinators
can organize things, start to do the REAL rescue work such as
pumping out all those millions of acre-feet of flood water,
finding shelter and food and sanitation for a million or more
displaced and homeless people, trying to restore a large city
and many smaller cities along the Gulf. The REAL health workers
have been on the scene, pulling out bodies of the dead, measuring
the countryside for disease, taking steps to control insect-borne
diseases, preparing for the epidemics that might ravage the
survivors. REAL work, down on the nitty-gritty level, done by
those who KNOW what they are doing even though they are over-
whelmed by the enormity of the task.
> Even the snide remarks of some lame slime from Motorola has been
>laid waste.
"Lame slime?" :-) While some consider Public Relations folks
in that category, that's just inflamatory, ignorant rhetoric
from a nurse who has no provable record of past "experience" in
either radio communications or the electronics industry...a
wannabe-warrior who can only "fight" by cursing others who don't
agree with him. Disreputable activity.
Such inflammatory curse words are only in the minds of a few who
have NO REAL CONCEPT of the many and various communications systems
used by the "infrastructure." Motorola has been one of the leaders
in radio since World War 2...surviving when Hallicrafters and Zenith
and a number of other electronics industry biggies of the Chicago
area FAILED, dissolved, went bankrupt, became DEFUNCT.
The electronics industry of the United States IS HELPING, just as
it did after the NYC disaster of 11 Sep 01, shipping in professional
radio-electronics equipment from handhelds to "WiFi" and "WiMax"
whole systems to restore the BIG communications needs along the
Gulf coast. The evidence IS there in the "MAJOR news", in the
newspaper business section, in the press releases of major
electronics industry corporations. It isn't carried on the amateur
"news" from the ARRL...such is counter-productive to promoting the
ARRL and furthering the amateur mystique that some need to
justify their imaginary glory of having an amateur radio hobby.
The disaster of hurricane Katrina is of unparalleled proportions
and ALL humane-thinking citizens can do their part, however big,
however small. There is NO AID given to anyone or anything by
continuing an unrelenting stream of personal insults towards
others they know nothing of nor nothing about.
Dan/W4NTI
"an_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126284201.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here
in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
Cross on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.
Dan/W4NTI
an_old_friend
did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
thrower?
But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
I.
as to your other points.
One am unable judge for myself directly of course because of rules you
personaly have supported for years.
Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
syaing they should but couldn't they.
The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
the level of critcal
>
> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.
and what are they passing?
what vital message are they conveying?
>
> Dan/W4NTI
Richard Clark
wrote:
>> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
>> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
Mostly? This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
>> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
>> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
abound.
>> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
>> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely unaware
of what you have been saying all along. That aside, and more to the
point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after they
were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
>But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
>thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
>CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
>I.
From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
would be quite cosmopolitan. Going beyond that however, such
suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
communications.
>The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
>report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
>the level of critcal
You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
To Others,
I've rummaged up at least a couple of dozen references to the Ham
activities from a variety of news outlets (and not just the bobbing
heads of salacious cable TV). It would do us all well to stockpile
such commendations to "remind" authorities who so quickly forget in
the face of those who can stuff their pockets with money-for-airspace.
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
an_old_friend
Richard Clark wrote:
> On 9 Sep 2005 14:30:13 -0700, "an_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
> >> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
>
> Mostly? This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
I have seencoverage of H&W traffic on the news
>
> >> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
> >> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
>
> In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
> abound.
Cops dispatched by Ham radio? I don't think so
>
> >> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
> >> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
>
> Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely unaware
> of what you have been saying all along. That aside, and more to the
> point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
> half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after they
> were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
well that is news
>
> >But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> >thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> >CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> >I.
>
> From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
> would be quite cosmopolitan. Going beyond that however, such
> suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
> communications.
Virgina? I don't live in Virgina
but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being linked
by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
>
> >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> >the level of critcal
>
> You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
Auf Anglish Bitte?
>
> To Others,
>
> I've rummaged up at least a couple of dozen references to the Ham
> activities from a variety of news outlets (and not just the bobbing
> heads of salacious cable TV). It would do us all well to stockpile
> such commendations to "remind" authorities who so quickly forget in
> the face of those who can stuff their pockets with money-for-airspace.
Indeed we should, we should also make sure they are accurate
Richard Clark
wrote:
>> You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
>
>Auf Anglish Bitte?
All Things Considered, August 30, 2005 ·
While cell phones and other communication networks were demolished
by Hurricane Katrina, a group of radio operators volunteering with the
Red Cross have been instrumental in assistance and relief efforts.
NORTH LITTLE ROCK -
... Temple is president of the Central Arkansas Radio Emergency Net.
When Hurricane Katrina knocked over cell phone towers and utility
lines, ham radio became a key communications tool.
Temple says ham radio operators have acted as go-betweens for
Louisiana hospitals needing help and Arkansas aid workers.
Ham radio operators provide vital link after storm
Thursday September 01, 2005
ROANOKE, Va. (AP) ... Then an urgent voice sliced through the static,
clear as a bell.
``I have a diabetic, 80 years old, out of food and water for the
last 24 hours,'' it said.
An elderly woman from Bush, La., was stranded in her home after
Hurricane Katrina and desperate for food and insulin. Somebody sent
the message out over the air. Other voices picked up the call and it
was relayed all across America until, with luck, it would reach a
local rescue squad.
Ham Radio Operators Rise to Occasion of Another Disaster
BY CHUCK McCUTCHEON
c.2005 Newhouse News Service
Approximately 250 operators are in Louisiana working with the
American Red Cross and state emergency response officials, with others
waiting to enter the state when floodwaters recede ....
Sept. 1, 2005
Local Woman Helping Hurricane Victims Via Ham Radio
Aug 30, 2005, 08:00 PM
A woman in central Indiana took control of one of the most powerful
emergency networks anywhere to help those effected by Hurricane
Katrina.
Somehow, somewhere in the middle of all the hurricane mess, someone
is broadcasting to the world probably operating on battery power and a
makeshift antenna.
Tuesday night, Indiana handled the call.
For an hour, Peggy McNary took the post of "controller" of SATERN,
Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network.... "A family called out
on a cell phone, trapped in an attic. They got word to an amateur
radio operator somehow just before they lost contact, SATERN was able
to contact the Coast Guard and that family was rescued," she
explained.
The network claims a hand in dozens of Katrina rescues already and
will operate until there is no need for more.
Local ham-radio operators help rescue effort
By Rocky Scott
DEMOCRAT STAFF WRITER
Tallahassee ham-radio operators took part in the daring helicopter
rescue Friday of about 1,500 patients and staff from two New Orleans
hospitals besieged by darkness, dank water and gunfire.
...
Looting and gunfire erupted and 100,000 stranded, scared residents
became a force ready to spill into anarchy.
Enter the Tallahassee Amateur Radio Club, Florida Division of
Emergency Management and some old-fashioned ingenuity.
State Emergency Management officials suggested Hall contact the
local ham radio club to solve the communications dilemma.
Urged by rapidly rising water - 8 feet deep in places - and the
growing knowledge that New Orleans had become a drowning pool, the ham
operators fashioned a satellite reception device atop an 8-story
building in downtown Tallahassee.
Then three of them - Theo Titus, Gene Floyd and Bill Schmidt - all
boarded a helicopter in Tallahassee Wednesday and headed for New
Orleans.
Atop the garage at Tulane, they set up a generator-powered ham radio
with a satellite uplink.
By Tuesday afternoon, the choppers were up and running, and Hall and
his co-workers in Tallahassee were able to give directions to
pilots....
Reported by Justin Cavey
Ham Radio Operators Invaluable in Times of Disaster
Volunteer Ham Radio Operators to Receive Grant To Enhance Emergency
Communications in Hurricane Region
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Corporation for National and Community
Service today announced a supplemental grant of $100,000 to the
American Radio Relay League (ARRL) to support volunteer emergency
communication operators who are helping out in Gulf Coast states
affected by Hurricane Katrina.
"With the breakdown of regular communication channels caused by the
storm, the services provided by volunteer ham radio operators is
vitally important, both to organizations and to individuals seeking to
connect with loved ones," said David Eisner, CEO of the Corporation.
"We’re pleased to be able to provide this extra assistance at this
critical time."
Ham radio operators play role in communication
By TERESA RESSEL\Daily Journal Staff Writer
Amateur (or ham) radio operators are playing a major role in
communications in the states hit hard by Hurricane Katrina.
The wind and rain hampered other means of communication, so it was
estimated as of Wednesday that 250 Amateur Radio Emergency Service
members have been working with relief organizations and emergency
management agencies to assist with communication.
Ham radio helps in emergencies
Updated: 9/3/2005 11:30 AM
By: Adam Shub, News 14 Carolina
SHELBY, N.C. -- Amateur radio operators are banding together to help
the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
Ham radio provides a link between hurricane victims and loved ones in
West Michigan
(Grand Rapids, September 1, 2005, 8:06 a.m.) Getting in touch with
anyone in the hurricane-stricken areas is almost impossible. Telephone
poles and cell phone towers have been knocked down or washed away. The
lack of power means no e-mail, either. But a group of people in West
Michigan has a way to get through.
Ham Radio Operators Provide Lifeline During Disaster
Radio Operators Can Communicate In Stricken Areas
POSTED: 5:51 pm EDT September 1, 2005
MEREDITH, N.H.
... ham radio operators from New Orleans to Utah coordinated the
effort to guide a Coast Guard helicopter to rescue more than a dozen
trapped people.
As usual, ham radio operators help sustain wide-ranging relief
efforts
By Andrea Kelly
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
When all else fails, it's ham radio to the rescue. Across Arizona,
ham radio operators are helping sustain Hurricane Katrina relief
efforts by helping storm-torn communities communicate with rescue
workers....
HAM radio operators reach out
Some messages have been sent
WJRT By Joel Doepker
Saginaw - (09/01/05)
...
In one case, a victim in New Orleans called a family member outside
the area for help. That person then contacted an amateur radio
operator who contacted rescue crews, who saved more than a dozen
people from a rooftop.
Relief Effort
Many Pleas For Aid Go Out
Rescue Teams and Clean Water Needed
By Elizabeth Williamson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 1, 2005; Page A21
... "I was just a relay kind of station. The message got
transmitted on into the Coast Guard, who handled the rescue," said
Fillinger, 78, whose ham radio unit is based in his hilltop home in
Portland, Ore. "By the evening, we got confirmation that the group had
been rescued," including an 81-year-old woman that Fillinger knows
only as Helen.
Ham radio volunteers help re-establish communications after Katrina
Some 700 operators are already at work, with more on the way
News Story by Todd R. Weiss
... Many of the volunteers sprung into action even before the storm
struck the Gulf Coast, broadcasting as part of a "Hurricane Watch-Net"
three days before deadly Hurricane Katrina slammed into the coast on
Aug. 29, Pitts said
Ham radio operator tunes in to help victims
By EDIE HALL
The Kansas City Star
... Since Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, Goll, 81,
has been getting messages to agencies such as the Federal Emergency
Management Agency, the American Red Cross and the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers.
Ham radio operators to the rescue after Katrina
Amateur radio networks help victims of the hurricane
By Gary Krakow
Columnist
MSNBC
... Such rescues were repeated over and over again. Another ham was
part of the mix that same Monday when he heard over the same Salvation
Army emergency network of a family of five trapped in an attic in
Diamond Head, La. The family used a cell phone to call out. Bob
Rathbone, AG4ZG, in Tampa, says he checked the address on a map and
determined it was in an area struck by a storm surge.
He called the Coast Guard search-and-rescue station in Clearwater,
explained the situation and relayed the information. At this point,
the Coast Guard office in New Orleans was out of commission. An hour
later he received a return call from the South Haven Sheriff’s
Department in Louisiana, which informed him a rescue operation was
under way.
Another search-and-rescue operation involved two adults and a child
stuck on a roof. The person was able to send a text message from a
cell phone to a family member in Michigan. Once again, the Coast Guard
handled the call.
Ham radio operator tunes in to help victims
By EDIE HALL
The Kansas City Star
... he said. "I also got a message from a group of FEMA workers who
were trapped on a bridge that was about to collapse and we got them
out of there."
.................. hopefully this is written in suitably
understandable English.
K4YZ
nobodys_old_friend wrote:
> Richard Clark wrote:
> > On 9 Sep 2005 14:30:13 -0700, "an_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> > No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
> > >> > H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.
> >
> > Mostly? This is a left-handed complement in light of the news.
>
> I have seencoverage of H&W traffic on the news
> >
> > >> > It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
> > >> > keystone cops bummbling we see and here about
> >
> > In fact it did replace the system used by the cops, and witnesses
> > abound.
>
> Cops dispatched by Ham radio? I don't think so
Then get your "believer" fixed, boyo.
It's happened before, it's happening now.
> > >> > the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
> > >> > lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along
> >
> > Well, until you were crossposted here, we have been entirely unaware
> > of what you have been saying all along. That aside, and more to the
> > point about your comment about ARS not saving the day, there are a
> > half dozen FEMA workers who would humbly admit otherwise after they
> > were rescued through Ham operator efforts.
>
> well that is news
> >
> > >But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> > >thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> > >CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> > >I.
> >
> > From your vantage deep in Virginia, I would think that Montgomery
> > would be quite cosmopolitan. Going beyond that however, such
> > suggestions as offered above seem to miss the point of HF
> > communications.
>
> Virgina? I don't live in Virgina
Good thing, too.
They like liars and deviants even less than I do.
> but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being linked
> by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
"response"
Why?
You think that they only need to talk across town?
> > >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> > >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> > >the level of critcal
> >
> > You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
>
> Auf Anglish Bitte?
Cowardly avoidance.
Typical Mark Morgan.
Steve, K4YZ
K4YZ
nobodys_old_friend wrote:
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> > "nobodys_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1126284201.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here
> > in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
> > Cross on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
> > communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
>
> did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> thrower?
Seems to me he did.
> But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> I.
ANYONE knows better than you.
(1) There are only 35 ACTIVE GMRS licenses in Montgomery per the
FCC. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO active GMRS repeater in
Montgomery. However, with only 35 licensees, I find it hard to believe
there's more than one if there's any at all.
This means a MAXIMUM of seven repeater pairs and 14 simplex
channels and no more than 25w to fixed antennas, period.
(2) There are 378 AMATEUR licenses in Montgomery. My 2004
repeater directory shows (6) 2 meter repeaters and (6) 440 repeaters in
the city alone.
On the 2 meter band alone this includes five digital-exclusive
channels, over 30 simplex channels, and authorized power of up to
1500w.
(3) CB Radio has a ground-wave effective distance of less than 5
miles. Daytime propagation makes it completely unusable more than 2
miles away.
(4) There is no viable CB radio-based traffic handing system in
the United States. You can tattoo the message to the CBer's head, but
if they don't have the infrastructure to disposition the message, all
you've done is waste time.
(5) Montgomery's population is just under 250,000.
Steve, K4YZ
an_old_friend
> > but in responf to a quip about the shelters in Montgomery being linked
> > by Ham radio HF would hardly seem likely to be involved
>
> "response"
>
> Why?
>
> You think that they only need to talk across town?
that was the stated report
>
> > > >The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> > > >report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> > > >the level of critcal
> > >
> > > You should consider your choices made in informing yourself.
> >
> > Auf Anglish Bitte?
>
> Cowardly avoidance.
then you are a bigger coward stilll pretending you don't understand
when it is convientant
an_old_friend
K4YZ wrote:
> nobodys_old_friend wrote:
> > Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> > > "nobodys_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1126284201.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here
> > > in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
> > > Cross on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
> > > communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
> >
> > did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> > thrower?
>
> Seems to me he did.
but he did not
>
> > But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> > thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> > CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> > I.
>
> ANYONE knows better than you.
>
> (1) There are only 35 ACTIVE GMRS licenses in Montgomery per the
> FCC. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO active GMRS repeater in
> Montgomery. However, with only 35 licensees, I find it hard to believe
> there's more than one if there's any at all.
so now repeaters are the only means
cuting the off topic bullshit
all you do is rant mostly about things with no relavnce even make
claims that the laws of physics change somehow for cb hf
no reason advanced why the shelter even the radios at all all could be
handled less effectively perhaps by the people driving supplies to the
shelters
I see a lot of posturing
It was nice for that other poster a list a few life saving events,
though are worth knowing about
>
> Steve, K4YZ
Hank Oredson
That is incorrect. All the traffic I personally relayed was
emergency requests for rescue. All the traffic handled by
the net I helped was emergency traffic, and resulted in many
many rescues. Lots of folks are alive today because of ham radio.
> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal
Your ignorance is amazing. Did you actually LISTEN?
>
>>
>> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the
>> line.
>
> and what are they passing?
>
> what vital message are they conveying?
Listen and learn.
--
... Hank
http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli
faz...@aol.com
after Katrina devasted New Orleans that the only things working down
there were helicopters and ham radio.
KB2AMY
Percival P. Cassidy
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
> Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
> of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
> syaing they should but couldn't they.
>
> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal
>>The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.
> and what are they passing?
>
> what vital message are they conveying?
Several days ago I heard a message being relayed to police/hwy
patrol/whomever about people trapped in an attic somewhere that needed
to be rescued.
The latest ARRL eLetter reports that in some places hams were lending
their equipment to "official" agencies because the latters' equipment
did not work.
Remember that, in this "land of the 'We'll do it our own way, thank you
very much'", many govt. agencies cannot communicate with each other by
radio even when the equipment does work: every county and municipality,
every fire dept. and ambulance service is free to decide what equipment
to use regardless of what anybody else is using. I understand that
Michigan is one of the few states with an integrated (or at least
coordinated) radio system. Where multiple agencies are trying to work
together, putting ham radio operators with each agency may be one of the
few ways they have of keeping in touch.
"Perce"
(aka Alan NV8A)
K4YZ
nobodys_old_friend wrote:
> K4YZ wrote:
> > nobodys_old_friend wrote:
> > > Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> > > > "nobodys_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1126284201.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here
> > > > in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
> > > > Cross on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
> > > > communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
> > >
> > > did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> > > thrower?
> >
> > Seems to me he did.
>
> but he did not
But he DID!
> > > But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> > > thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> > > CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> > > I.
> >
> > ANYONE knows better than you.
> >
> > (1) There are only 35 ACTIVE GMRS licenses in Montgomery per the
> > FCC. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO active GMRS repeater in
> > Montgomery. However, with only 35 licensees, I find it hard to believe
> > there's more than one if there's any at all.
>
> so now repeaters are the only means
> cuting the off topic bull####
What's "off topic" about it, Markie..?!?!
YOU were the one who brought up GMRS and CB, Ya Putz!
And you will please notice that I clearly addressed SIMPLEX
frequencies too, so so much for your "repeaters only" diatribe, Markie.
> all you do is rant mostly about things with no relavnce even make
> claims that the laws of physics change somehow for cb hf
(1) YOU brought up GMRS and CB radio, Markie, NOT ME!
(2) I didn't claim any "laws of physics" were different for "cb
hf" ! I SPECIFICALLY addressed the shortcomings of using CB radio
BASED upon KNOWN propagation at that wavelength! It's the SAME reason
that 10 meters is not typically used for short range emergency
communications here! Add the horrific QRM on 11 meters, and it's a
wasteland good for nothing except in-house intercom duties, IF that!
> no reason advanced why the shelter even the radios at all all could be
> handled less effectively perhaps by the people driving supplies to the
> shelters
>
> I see a lot of posturing
No...what you SAW here were some FACTS.
QUOTE
(1) There are only 35 ACTIVE GMRS licenses in Montgomery per the
FCC. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO active GMRS repeater in
Montgomery. However, with only 35 licensees, I find it hard to believe
there's more than one if there's any at all.
This means a MAXIMUM of seven repeater pairs and 14 simplex
channels and no more than 25w to fixed antennas, period.
UNQUOTE
What is "posturing" about that, Markie? Nothing there is
mistruthful or deceitful. Also please note the aforementioned use of
OTHER-THAN "repeater" options that you tried to claim was my only
point.
QUOTE
(2) There are 378 AMATEUR licenses in Montgomery. My 2004
repeater directory shows (6) 2 meter repeaters and (6) 440 repeaters in
the city alone.
On the 2 meter band alone this includes five digital-exclusive
channels, over 30 simplex channels, and authorized power of up to
1500w.
UNQUOTE
One correction on my part...There are "374", not "378" Amateur
licensees in Montgomery...And that's just folks with a Montgomery
mailing address.
Again...I'd be interested in what part of those numbers are
"posturing", Markie.
And again, OTHER than "repeater" options are addressed.
QUOTE:
(3) CB Radio has a ground-wave effective distance of less than 5
miles. Daytime propagation makes it completely unusable more than 2
miles away.
UNQUOTE
You dispute this, Markie?
QUOTE
(4) There is no viable CB radio-based traffic handing system in
the United States. You can tattoo the message to the CBer's head, but
if they don't have the infrastructure to disposition the message, all
you've done is waste time.
UNQUOTE
Wondering what part of THAT is "posturing", Markie.
P L E A S E point me to the URL for the CB-radio based traffic
handing organization in the United States...Please...
QUOTE:
(5) Montgomery's population is just under 250,000.
UNQUOTE
YOU said that you remembered Montgomery as being small. So now
the Census numbers are "posturing"...?!?!
> It was nice for that other poster a list a few life saving events,
> though are worth knowing about.
Stuff like that is going on every day right now. It will be a long
time before Motorola and the other manufacturers can get the gear into
the field and working.
So...Amateurs created KATRINA just so we could "posture" in a
newsgroup...?!?!
Steve, K4YZ
an_old_friend
michigan is still working on this system sad to say although they are
trying fairly hard and have made a lot of progress compared to much of
the nation
>
> "Perce"
> (aka Alan NV8A)
Dan/W4NTI
Now the goof calls me a liar. I have been sitting on HF for the last WEEK
helping the shelters talk with each other. Montgomery needs commo into
places like the Gulf Coast, Biloxi, Gulfport, and of course New Orleans.
Get a flippin map and tell me how VHF/UHF is going to make those distances?
Montgomery is the capital city of Alabama. Not what I would call a small
town.
an_old_friend
sure there are facts but it also a fact that i think you are an idoit
but this sate of being a fact does not make it relavant
nothing your rant saying why the neds Dan was identifing culd not be
met though other means
just a waste of BW
cut
> YOU said that you remembered Montgomery as being small. So now
> the Census numbers are "posturing"...?!?!
250,00 is relitive small but the issue was never number but land area
>
> > It was nice for that other poster a list a few life saving events,
> > though are worth knowing about.
>
> Stuff like that is going on every day right now. It will be a long
> time before Motorola and the other manufacturers can get the gear into
> the field and working.
>
> So...Amateurs created KATRINA just so we could "posture" in a
> newsgroup...?!?!
more of you absurdity
>
> Steve, K4YZ
Dan/W4NTI
Sure they could. And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be
used also. Or perhaps they could mail a letter.
> The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> the level of critcal
>
Then I suggest you listen in and find out what is being passed. I will be
posting on rec.radio.amateur. policy the statements from the ARRL on this
subject. Perhaps that will help you to understand.
>
>>
>> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the
>> line.
>
> and what are they passing?
>
Everything from relaying between shelters (because of poor conditions, or
poor antennas or both), helping various operators with finding links to
other nets, Health and Welfare such as passing messages (at our expense)
from the disaster area to families of those in the area. I personally
participated in passing Emergency traffic from Huntsville AL to New Orleans
Coast Guard about a family trapped in a house and needing their help.
Additionally I relayed between a very weak HF station in New Orleans to
Tallahassee Hospital to "tell the aircraft to come up on VHF". I have no
idea what that meant. But I have no doubt it was important to someone.
I am just ONE operator doing what I can. How about stop criticizing those
that are.....you may learn something.
Dan/W4NTI
town?
Dan/W4NTI
an_old_friend
from your statement obviously
>
> Dan/W4NTI
an_old_friend
> >
cut
> >
> > did you you bother to read my remarks before lighting up the flame
> > thrower?
> >
> > But just How big is Mntgomery I was though there once long ago, and
> > thought it pretty small. But any reason they could not use GRMS or even
> > CB to make those links? I don't see any but you might know better than
> > I.
> >
> > as to your other points.
> >
> > One am unable judge for myself directly of course because of rules you
> > personaly have supported for years.
> >
> > Two I said most com seemed to that most were H&W, Indeed given the size
> > of Montgomery could not they diespense with anything but messagers? Not
> > syaing they should but couldn't they.
> >
>
> Sure they could. And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be
> used also. Or perhaps they could mail a letter.
>
> > The Comms provided by hams are important and of value, But I see no
> > report of (let alone have one confirmed) use of ham radio that rises to
> > the level of critcal
> >
> Then I suggest you listen in and find out what is being passed. I will be
> posting on rec.radio.amateur. policy the statements from the ARRL on this
> subject. Perhaps that will help you to understand.
Dan if that is what I am to judge the ARS come off even worse
>
> >
> >>
> >> The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the
> >> line.
> >
> > and what are they passing?
> >
>
> Everything from relaying between shelters (because of poor conditions, or
> poor antennas or both), helping various operators with finding links to
> other nets, Health and Welfare such as passing messages (at our expense)
> from the disaster area to families of those in the area. I personally
> participated in passing Emergency traffic from Huntsville AL to New Orleans
> Coast Guard about a family trapped in a house and needing their help.
> Additionally I relayed between a very weak HF station in New Orleans to
> Tallahassee Hospital to "tell the aircraft to come up on VHF". I have no
> idea what that meant. But I have no doubt it was important to someone.
>
> I am just ONE operator doing what I can. How about stop criticizing those
> that are.....you may learn something.
again you and Stvie and Dave can't allow anyone to question any thing
anyone daring to question is subject to automatic flame thrower
Very typical of the ARS operators these days
so thin skined that anything short glorifcation is critism
Dan/W4NTI
You think ALL the shelters are in one town?
Are you seriously this out of step with the rest of ham radio? Seek mental
health help. You have been fixed, right? Please say yes.
Dan/W4NTI
an_old_friend
cut
> >> Just where did you get the notion that Montgomery only needed to talk
> >> across
> >> town?
> >
> > from your statement obviously
> >>
> I never said any such thing. I was talking about comms in/out of shelters.
> You think ALL the shelters are in one town?
you never said any such thing as needing to get to other cites, you
seem to think it is my duty to read your mind
>
> Are you seriously this out of step with the rest of ham radio?
Perhaps I am indeed I suspect I like a lot of the long term memeber of
the tech class are largely cut off from the rest of Ham radio. OTOH
that is a result of decisions and rules you have supported for years
> Seek mental
> health help. You have been fixed, right? Please say yes.
up thine preffeable with a antenna conection to powerful tranmitter
>
> Dan/W4NTI
Cecil Moore
> So...Amateurs created KATRINA just so we could "posture" in a
> newsgroup...?!?!
Someone interviewed on network news said today that it was
an "Act of God by George Bush's God". A couple of days ago
some followers of Allah were taking credit for it.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Sure they could. And if we still had WWI carrier pidgeons they could be
> used also. Or perhaps they could mail a letter.
Sure they could mail a letter. After the US postal service reopens
mail service to the affected areas. There were notices on the USPS
website telling that next day, and some other mail services were not
available for the time being.
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Tom Ring
>
> sure there are facts but it also a fact that i think you are an idoit
> but this sate of being a fact does not make it relavant
>
> nothing your rant saying why the neds Dan was identifing culd not be
> met though other means
>
> 250,00 is relitive small but the issue was never number but land area
>
> more of you absurdity
You might be more credible if you could spell a bit better. At least
use a spell checker so you appear to be less of an idiot.
Of course, your arguments would still be suspect even if you did that.
tom
K0TAR
an_old_friend
and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
>
> tom
> K0TAR
Tom Ring
>
> and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
> already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
> many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
>
Stupid is as stupid does.
tom
K0TAR
Tom Ring
> and you give the very reason I don't bother with such most folks have
> already made up their minds, why should I put out the effort when in
> many cases the aurguement is rejected before it is read
>
And I have the balls to admit who I am.
tom
K0TAR
Dan/W4NTI
"Tom Ring" <news...@taring.org> wrote in message
news:43239310$0$22197$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
And one thing about it....Ya just cain't fix stupid!!
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:43236BFF...@earthlink.net...
That was my point, sir.
Dan/W4NTI
Cmdr Buzz Corey
>>
> Just where did you get the notion that Montgomery only needed to talk across
> town?
The voices in his head told him so.
Cmdr Buzz Corey
> "an_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>from your statement obviously
>>
> I never said any such thing. I was talking about comms in/out of shelters.
> You think ALL the shelters are in one town?
First you need to explain to an_old_idiot what a shelter is.
Dan/W4NTI
Perhaps this E-Mail I just received from the Alabama Section Emergency
Coordinator will "HELP" 'an old friend' to understand. Anyone want to bet?
Please notice the comments about using tactical and formal message handling.
FYI tactical would be to dispense with the formal headings. Just use the
basic address/phone number. Then the operator that received the message
makes a phone call to deliver anywhere in the world that allowed 3rd Party
traffic.
Formal should be self explainatory, but knowing the abilities of Mr. 'an
old friend' I'll translate....It is using standard ARRL Formatted messages
as in;
Number 139 W (Welfare) W4NTI CHECK 12 ANNISTON AL SEPT 10
TO MR JAMES KIRK
STARSHIP ENTERPRISE
ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE ZIP CODE
PHONE NR
BT
ALL IS WELL HERE MR. SPOCK X HOPE
TO SEE YOU SOON BT JAMES T. KIRK
BT
NNNN (MEANS NOTHING FURTHER) (USUALLY SENT IN CW OR DIGITAL MODES AND NOT
USED IN PHONE)
You do notice the word 'sites' right? That is plural for many locations.
I especially want your response to the paragraph concerning the highly
vaunted 800 mhz system. That FAILED immediatly. Then please comment about
the use of Hams to DISPATCH Police and Fire. Not to mention the comment of
how these same hams helped FIX these sites to attempt getting the Police and
other Emergency agencies back on line.
Please also note that these Ham teams VOLUNTARILY PUT THEMSELVES into the
middle of one of worst, if not THEY worst ecological disaster in this
countries history. Providing their own equipment, their own supplies, their
own gas, etc. Note how much that is appreciated and does not ADD to the
problem.
No bragging, no looking for headlines, in fact NO NAMES AT ALL. So tell me
'an old friend' where is all the bragging????????
I doubt this will do a bit of good with you and your 1/3 of the newsgroup
that support you. But these are the facts. Believe it if you want.
OR.....just remove the egg off you face and drop the subject.
Dan/W4NTI
> Good morning Folks,
>
> I can't begin to tell you how awesome your response to Hurricane Katrina
> and the aftermath has been. The Tactical and Formal traffic handling as
> well as the overall professionalism, has truly been impressive.
>
> Those of you that have packed up and gone to the needed sites to operate
> in dismal conditions deserve all of our gratitude. You have made our state
> proud, and me too.
> For those who went but were turned around because of mis-communication,
> please accept my sincere apologies. With a half million people homeless,
> and hundreds of thousands without power, water and basic services, all of
> us in Emergency Services were simply overwhelmed. We're trying to get it
> right, and using the experience to make sure of a good plan should this
> magnatude of event ever happen again.
>
> This is what we have learned:
>
> The 800mhz and other trunked systems commonly used by local and state
> agencies, were the first to go in the hard hit areas. In many cases, we
> found Police and Fire units were dispatching from a car or HT. Even after
> two weeks, we still have hams handling All of the EOC and Public Service
> communications in a number of counties and Parishes on the coast. This is
> really hot gristly work. Many of the hams were able to repair the
> commercial antenna systems and bring some public services back online.
> Cell phones were out initally, but began to come up after a week, but many
> areas are still overloaded or spotty.
> The most valuable asset by far has been the totally self contained ham or
> team who went in with radios, generators, antennas, food, water, and
> sleeping bags. This is what everyone onsite began to ask for, and what we
> are running short of. Keep this in mind for a club or group project in the
> future.
>
> ARRL has set up a Clearing House for needed hams at
> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/agencies/.
> Also Greg W4OZK has beed working as Amateur Radio liaison at the American
> Red Cross Disaster Operation Center that has been set up in Montgomery.
> You can contact him at DR871-06...@usa.redcross.org for placement.
>
> We are still looking at at least 60 days of operations that will require
> our assistance. Anything that you or your clubs can do will mean a great
> deal to those folks who still can't communicate with the needed agencies.
>
> 73's and God Bless, Jay Isbell KA4KUN ARRL Alabama Section Emergency
> Coordinator
> ARES - ARES Mutual Assistance Team - ARES Rapid Response Team - "It's Not
> Just A Hobby Anymore"
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan/W4NTI
much....hi hi
Dan/W4NTI
"Cmdr Buzz Corey" <m...@that.moc> wrote in message
news:zaOdnTg7KpJ...@gbronline.com...
an_old_friend
SoP insult any that dare question
>
> Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
communications, enjoy the read.
Dan/W4NTI
=================
The ARES E-Letter
Special Edition
September 11, 2005
=================
Edited by Rick Palm, K1CE
===============================================================
ARES reports, other related contributions, editorial questions or
comments: Rick Palm, K1CE, k1...@arrl.net
===============================================================
SPECIAL EDITION TWO: HURRICANE KATRINA FOLLOW-UP
It's been quite a week of studying the ARES response to Hurricane
Katrina while keeping a wary eye on storm Ophelia, just off shore
here in Flagler County, on the Florida central east coast. Local ARES
was on alert. We had winds and driving rain as Ophelia tried to
decide which way to turn. Yesterday, it marched to the northeast and
today we have an uneasy, almost surreal calm. But, the sky is clear.
Back to Katrina: I can't remember a more comprehensive ARES response,
especially in terms of inter-county and interstate mutual assistance,
plus the concomitant, unprecedented activity by ARRL HQ staff in
support of that response, ever. Even the Chief Operating Officer
Harold Kramer, WJ1B, worked over the Labor Day holiday weekend. And
word arrived yesterday that the "Hurricane Katrina Amateur Radio
Volunteers Needed Clearing House" now is live on the ARRL Web site
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/agencies/>. The ARRL Letter: "This
database will be the primary means for relief organizations requiring
Amateur Radio volunteers for communication support to list their
needs. Additionally, volunteers looking to help may search the
listings to match up their capabilities with the various
requirements." That is a first, as far as I know. Credit Joe
Tomasone, AB2M, for the Hurricane Katrina Disaster Communications
Volunteer Registration and Message Traffic Database he developed.
On the Northern Florida ARES Net this morning, a report was made that
"renegade" hams were turned away from an affected area and were to be
adorned with "metal bracelets" if they did not leave. Message:
Coordinate your volunteer efforts with your own home ARRL Section
Emergency Coordinator (SEC), or his/her designees. Also, be prepared
to be self-sufficient: "If you need it, you bring it," advised
Alabama SEC Jay Isbell, KA4KUN. - K1CE
"All of us know this will be a months-long effort. Just because we
are unable to immediately send those of you who have registered, that
does not mean we will not need you in the future. Your patience in
awaiting an assignment that may never come is appreciated. The
requirements are likely to change in the future; we are unable to
give any idea of when that will be." - Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, STX SEC
=====================================
IN THIS ISSUE:
+ Northern Texas Response
+ Louisiana
+ Mississippi
+ Alabama
+ South Texas
+ New Orleans
+ Northwest Harris County (Texas) ARES
+ Hillsborough (Florida) Ops Deployment
+ Interoperability Tip
+ On Responder Fatigue
+ Digital Outlets
+ Briefs
+ Response and Recovery HF Frequencies
+ Resource Links
+ Final Note and Prediction
======================================
+ NORTHERN TEXAS SECTION RESPONSE
The NTX Section had been on alert since Monday, August 29. NTX SEC
Harris Swan, K5MWC, and STX SEC Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, had agreed early
on a plan to make effective use of NTX ARES members in response to
requests from the affected area. That plan was to prepare a list of
people volunteering to go if requested; Reimer would coordinate all
requests for assistance.
NTX ARES has primarily been supporting the West Gulf ARES Emergency
Net, dealing with H/W traffic, and supporting Red Cross, Salvation
Army, and FEMA. Several of the county EOCs requested support as they
anticipated operations with the large number of evacuees expected.
NTX will supplement resources in the affected area, provide support
to local shelter operations and support relief agencies in response
to their requests. The tempo will certainly pick up as time goes by;
NTX ARES is planning for long-term needs. -- NTX SEC Harris Swan,
K5MWC
______________________
The following is culled from a status report by the indefatigable
Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, South Texas SEC: Hurricane Katrina ARES
operations continue in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, North and
South Texas sections, using operators recruited from Louisiana,
Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Tennessee, Florida and other nearby
states and sections.
+ LOUISIANA
ARES continues to support Red Cross shelter and Southern Baptist
Convention debris-clearing operations in St. Tammany parish, where
disaster relief workers are housed and fed at the First Baptist
Church in Covington. In Washington Parish, ARES operators are
arriving to provide critical communication among hospitals and the
parish EOC. Over a dozen operators from Texas alone have traveled to
Louisiana. Victoria County (Texas) ARES EC John Wagner, WA5VBP, flew
into the New Orleans airport where it was determined that his
assignment was unsafe; he was sent on to serve in Baton Rouge.
Communications among the field teams and the state EOC in Baton Rouge
continues using HF voice on 75 meters and 40 meters. Surprisingly,
many VHF and UHF repeaters remained operational after the storm's
passing. Louisiana SEC Gary Stratton, K5GLS, temporarily delegated
his authority to former SM Al Oubre, K5DPG. Stratton will be working
on restoring the communications infrastructure.
In yesterday's ARRL Letter, Stratton was cited as saying Amateur
Radio was the only means for state officials at the state EOC in
Baton Rouge to communicate earlier this week with parishes above Lake
Pontchartrain. Also, there was a communication to the EOC from FEMA
that said, "Ham radio is our prime communications with you, and they
should get anything they need."
Reports also have ARES ops even loaning government agencies their
equipment.
+ MISSISSIPPI
The hardest hit areas are perhaps the counties closest to the Gulf
coast, especially Hancock and Harrison Counties. ARES DEC Tom
Hammack, W4WLF, requested 25 ARES operators for critical
communication among EOCs, hospitals, and shelters. ARRL Northern
Florida, West Central Florida and Southern Florida Sections are
sending self-sufficient teams to meet this urgent need, and a few
operators are coming from Arkansas. Hammack said his operators are
sleeping on the floor where they are assigned. State RACES Officer
and ARES DEC Ron Brown, AB5WF, is working on a staging area for
Amateur Radio responders near the Mississippi Emergency Management
Agency (MEMA) in Jackson. Mississippi SM/SEC Malcolm Keown, W5XX,
received a replacement generator and now has telephone and Internet
service.
[In correspondence with Malcolm, he gave me an appreciation for their
mental status and what they are going through on the ground in
Mississippi: "At this point nobody has much time to document
activities. Nobody at this point really has a clear enough mind to
put together a coherent story." -- K1CE]
+ ALABAMA
The state capitol of Montgomery was the scene of processing and
orienting Amateur Radio volunteers for Red Cross and other duty in
Louisiana and Mississippi. Some volunteers will help support
communication at Red Cross shelters set up for evacuees, while others
will provide tactical communication for feeding stations or for
emergency management. Alabama SM Greg Sarratt, W4OZK, has been
coordinating ham radio volunteers at the Montgomery site. - ARRL
Letter
+ SOUTH TEXAS
The Red Cross reports housing more than 142,000 people in 485
shelters in 18 states. Texas has over 230,000 people who fled.
Orange County ARES EC Rocky Wilson, N5MTX, has ARES operators
supporting seven Red Cross facilities that include distribution
centers and shelters. Since being activated on August 27, 35 ARES
operators have provided over 1,200 person-hours, as operations
continue. ARES groups from adjacent Jefferson and Polk Counties are
providing much-needed mutual aid.
ARES District 14 (Harris County) DEC Ken Mitchell, KD2KW, was
requested by the county emergency management office (HCOEM) to
provide four operators 24 hours per day, on-site at the Houston
Astrodome, and two at the county EOC, beginning September 1. Since
then, more than 90 operators have provided over 720 person-hours of
direct communications support. All four county ARES ECs are
providing operators at both sites.
Managing the incoming health and welfare inquiry messages is
overwhelming nearly all NTS resources, especially at the local level.
To mitigate this, Amateur Radio clubs have been asked to contact
nearby shelters as often as possible to pick up outgoing messages and
process them into the NTS by any available means.
At the request of the state Adjutant General's office, Travis County
ARES EC Don Dudley, AC5YK, facilitated National Guard in Waco with
communication with Guard elements at the Louisiana Superdome.
+ NEW ORLEANS
STX SEC Jerry Reimer, KK5CA, reports: "Amateur Radio operators are
beginning to be sent into areas around New Orleans to support command
and control operations for Red Cross and other disaster relief
operations. The equipment requirement is VHF and UHF FM. Portable,
hand-held and mobile stations are needed. Conditions remain
primitive. A pass is required from the Louisiana State Police for
access beyond roadblocks. Similar requirements exist in Mississippi,
where the state EOC is located in Jackson."
+ NORTHWEST HARRIS COUNTY (TEXAS) ARES
From Hal Merritt, KD5HWW, EC, Northwest Harris County (Texas) ARES:
"I have a few moments to breathe and share some notes. We have three
running missions: a deployment near Slidell, an operator in New
Orleans, and the local event.
The local mission consists of serving the mass shelters in Houston.
We saw rapid escalation, much more misinformation than information,
and a dynamic situation. The core problem was one we've never seen
before: We had trained and drilled on mass evacuations, but not the
reverse (mass incoming evacuees). Our local resources were quickly
overwhelmed, and I pulled the trigger on our MOU with surrounding
county ARES groups. I am now tasking hams from several counties, but
may be expanding my plea for operators statewide. The problem is
that there is no lodging of any kind to be had. Every hotel and
motel is completely full with evacuees.
There is ample local infrastructure, except housing. The event is
running along the FEMA ICS (Incident Command System) and UC (Unified
Command) scripts. It may seem like chaos to the untrained eye, but it
is a thing of beauty to see it working so well.
Normally, an ARES response team would report to, and be tasked by,
the Liaison person of the FEMA Command Staff. There, it might be
used as an ICS resource or tasked to Logistics for assignment to Task
Forces or Strike Teams. Amateur Radio is not yet an official FEMA
Resource Type, but that is being worked on. In this event, the Harris
County OEM called us. The EOC is attached to ICS under Logistics,
and that is how we fit into this event. The ICS is on site at the
Astrodome complex.
The ARES response has two locations. The first team is situated with
the EOC, providing communication for logistics (resource scheduling
and support of the Dome team). They are making entries into a master
event log, also.
The main effort is in the field, however. We have teams of four to
six operators. There is a Team Leader who is in charge. He/she is
responsible for on-site task assignments and for getting the relief
team quickly up to speed. The Team Leaders are ARES AECs, or other
amateurs with large public service event experience.
We are running six-hour shifts. No one is scheduled for more than
six hours, and they have only one shift per day. Having seen what
happens when someone gets too tired, we would rather do without, than
have someone get hurt; or worse, get other people hurt. Superheroes
need not apply.
The ARES leadership is focused on coordination. Every possible task
is being delegated. Although we are working 12-hour days, the real
action is with the Team Leaders and Net Controls. No, things are not
being done exactly like we would have done it, but it is getting
done; and generally, with the highest degree of professionalism.
Every time I screw up, there seems to be a number of folks there to
beat me up and get the job done right.
Please relay my deepest gratitude to all that have stepped up to the
plate. - Contact Hal Merritt, KD5HWW, at
<hal.m...@worldnet.att.net>
+ HILLSBOROUGH (FLORIDA) OPS DEPLOYED TO MISSISSIPPI MAKING A
DIFFERENCE FOR KATRINA SURVIVORS
Six trained communication volunteers from the Tampa Bay, Florida,
area (sponsored by the Hillsborough County EOC) have been in
Mississippi. Using ham radio while awaiting their deployment with
state of Florida communications assets, they became one of the few
outlets for "I'm Alive" messages out of the area. With local
operators in the affected area providing communications to local
police, fire, and search teams, there has been limited means of
transmitting H/W messages from the victims to their families outside
the disaster zone.
Members of the Hillsborough team have been visiting shelters and
feeding stations collecting messages from victims. More than 100
messages have been transmitted from Gulfport to Tampa via the Tampa
Amateur Radio Club, and local hams in Tampa have been making
heart-breaking phone calls to loved ones across the country who had
no word for a week on the fate of their family members in
Mississippi.
The official mission of the Hillsborough team is to set up and
operate EDICs (Emergency Deployable Interoperable Communications
System), a fly-away computer-controlled communications system that
interconnects radios and cell phones of different frequencies and
types so that public service communication can be restored in a
disaster area. It allows the radios that survived to be put to use so
that police officers and firefighters can better coordinate recovery
operations.
The EDICs unit may be tasked to Stennis Space Center in Hancock
County, or to Keesler Air Force Base, Mississippi. The team is to
deploy with Florida law enforcement teams staged in Gulfport. -- Pete
Kemp, KZ1Z, West Central Florida Section PIO
Gary Sessums, KC5QCN, member of the Hillsborough team writes: "Thanks
for the mention in the ARES newsletter about the Hillsborough County
ARES/RACES deployment. We are on site in Biloxi and Gulfport,
Mississippi. We have passed over 100 H/W messages in addition to our
public safety tasking. We are on the MARS, CAP, and SHARES nets, in
addition to Amateur Radio. I am trying to arrange relief for the
local ARES/RACES operators at the Harrison County EOC, as those guys
have been running non-stop since before the storm hit."
+ INTEROPERABILITY TIP
Watching in frustration at the breakdown of communications in the
Gulf coast response, I was made acutely aware of the viability of
Amateur Radio in terms of interoperability. We have the ability to
change frequencies in our radios to serve the location and needs of
the area.
Mobile HF, VHF and UHF radios can be re-programmed on the fly. With
that in mind, one of the necessary contents of anyone's "grab and go"
equipment should be the manuals, or copies of specific pages, for any
radio they carry with them.
I also write down the necessary steps -- and only the necessary steps
-- to program and use the radio away from the manual. I word process
the steps small enough so that I can laminate them as part of my
credentials lanyard. As a backup, I put another credit-card-size
laminated copy in a wallet that I keep separate in a coat pocket or
in the cargo pocket of my trousers. -- Chuck Heron, KD7BWG, DEC, Gila
County ARES, Arizona, Executive Officer, Gila County EMCOMM
(ARES/RACES), <kd7...@arrl.net>
+ ON RESPONDER FATIGUE
From Fred Leif, W6WTI: Thank you for putting out the special edition
ARES E-Letter. It is important that hams outside the impact and
support areas have a sense of the service that is being provided so
that we can help explain to our neighbors and the public the vital
role that Amateur Radio is playing.
Amateur Radio serves best while the communications emergency exists.
The full response and recovery from Katrina will take a very long
time, but when the response agencies and recovery teams have
established networks that meet their communications needs, the hams
should be allowed to stand down. It will be difficult to determine
when this occurs, but the ARES leaders should keep an eye on this
ball. We don't want "responder fatigue" to the extent that we can't
get operators for the next event. Bringing our service to bear on
the communications emergency, and recognizing when it is time to step
aside is a vital management function.
+ DIGITAL OUTLETS
Louisiana SEC Gary Stratton, K5GLS, reports "We now have digital
(Pactor/Internet/WL2K) outlets for H/W traffic into the areas noted
below in Louisiana and Mississippi. National Traffic System (NTS)
traffic can be sent to <ae...@winlink.org>. At the point that
destination traffic handlers feel they can take on all comers, the
directions to reach them will be shared. Louisiana towns and
parishes: St. Tammany, Abita Spring, Covington, Folsom, Lacombe,
Madisonville, Mandeville, Pearl River, Son, Slidell, Tangipahoa,
Amite, Hammond, Independence, Kentwood, Ponchatoula, Roseland,
Tangipahoa, Ticfaw, Terrebonne, Houma, Washington, Angie, Bogalusa,
Franklinton, Varnado. Mississippi Towns: Gautier, Ocean Springs,
Pascagoula. - Relayed by Benson Scott, AE5V
+ BRIEFS:
The Ohio Single Side Band Net (OSSBN) was to announce that H/W
traffic will be accepted. OSSBN Net Manager Connie Hamilton, N8IO,
who is also an Assistant Section Manager, said conditions have
changed, allowing for a reasonable chance of traffic getting
delivered. -- Joe Phillips, K8QOE, Ohio Section Manager
+ HURRICANE KATRINA HF RESPONSE AND RECOVERY FREQUENCIES
The following frequencies and links are the courtesy of John Mayger,
W4DJ. As far as net activity is concerned, I've been listening
primarily to the Gulf Coast ARES Net on 7285 kHz, and the SATERN Net
on 14.265 MHz, although I'm sure there are many other active nets.
Good propagation to the Florida east coast from those two nets have
allowed me to monitor their excellent, professional work. - K1CE
2802.4 USB American Red Cross Disaster
3171.4 USB American Red Cross Disaster
5136.4 USB American Red Cross Disaster
5141.4 USB American Red Cross Disaster
5211.0 USB FEMA
5236.0 USB SHARES Coordination Network
6859.5 USB American Red Cross Disaster
7507.0 USB USN/USCG hurricane net
7550.5 USB American Red Cross Disaster (primary)
7698.5 USB American Red Cross Disaster
9380.0 USB USN/USCG hurricane net
10493.0 USB FEMA
14396.5 USB SHARES Coordination Network
AMATEUR HF GULF COAST HURRICANE NETS
3845.0 LSB Gulf Coast West Hurricane
3862.5 LSB Mississippi Section Traffic
3873.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3873.0 LSB Louisiana ARES Emergency (night)
3873.0 LSB Texas ARES Emergency (night)
3873.0 LSB Mississippi ARES Emergency
3910.0 LSB Mississippi ARES
3910.0 LSB Louisiana Traffic
3923.0 LSB Mississippi ARES
3925.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3925.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency (altn)
3935.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
3935.0 LSB Louisiana ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB Texas ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB Mississippi ARES (health and welfare)
3935.0 LSB Alabama Emergency
3940.0 LSB Southern Florida Emergency
3950.0 LSB Northern Florida Emergency
3955.0 LSB South Texas Emergency
3965.0 LSB Alabama Emergency (altn)
3967.0 LSB Gulf Coast (outgoing traffic)
3975.0 LSB Texas RACES
3993.5 LSB Gulf Coast (health & welfare)
3995.0 LSB Gulf Coast Wx
7225.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7235.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency
7235.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7235.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency
7240.0 LSB American Red Cross US Gulf Coast Disaster
7240.0 LSB Texas Emergency
7243.0 LSB Alabama Emergency
7245.0 LSB Southern Louisiana
7248.0 LSB Texas RACES
7250.0 LSB Texas Emergency
7260.0 LSB Gulf Coast West Hurricane
7264.0 LSB Gulf Coast (health and welfare)
7265.0 LSB Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN) (altn)
7273.0 LSB Texas ARES (altn)
7280.0 LSB NTS Region 5
7280.0 LSB Louisiana Emergency (altn)
7283.0 LSB Gulf Coast (outgoing only)
7285.0 LSB West Gulf ARES Emergency (day)
7285.0 LSB Louisiana ARES Emergency (day)
7285.0 LSB Mississippi ARES Emergency
7285.0 LSB Texas ARES Emergency (day)
7290.0 LSB Central Gulf Coast Hurricane
7290.0 LSB Gulf Coast Weather
7290.0 LSB Texas ARES (health and welfare)
7290.0 LSB Louisiana ARES (health and welfare) (day)
7290.0 LSB Texas ARES (health and welfare)
7290.0 LSB Mississippi ARES (health and welfare)
14265.0 USB Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio (SATERN)
14300.0 USB Intercontinental Traffic
14300.0 USB Maritime Mobile Service
14303.0 USB International Assistance and Traffic
14313.0 USB Intercontinental Traffic (altn)
14313.0 USB Maritime Mobile Service (altn)
14316.0 USB Health and Welfare
14320.0 USB Health and Welfare
14325.0 USB Hurricane Watch (Amateur-to-National Hurricane Center)
14340.0 USB Louisiana (1900)
+ RESOURCE LINKS
CAUTION: The links presented below are listed as possible resources
for ARES deployment teams. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN VETTED BY ARRL. USE
AT YOUR OWN RISK.
-K1CE
Health and Welfare Inquiries can be submitted to:
Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network (SATERN)
<http://www.satern.org/>; for Health and Welfare inquiries after
hurricanes and other disasters <http://qso.com/satern/emailfrm.htm>.
American Red Cross (H/W Inquiries): 866-GET-INFO (866-438-4636)
American Red Cross donations and volunteering: 800-HELP-NOW
(800-435-7669)
<http://www.redcross.org>
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
(Individual Disaster Assistance): 800-621-FEMA (800-621-3362)
<http://www.fema.gov/>
Hurricane Katrina Survivor Lists and Information:
National Next of Kin Registration <http://www.nokr.org/>
Hurricane Katrina Survivors Online Forum and Survivor List
<http://www.hurricanekatrinasurvivors.com/main/>
CNN Hurricane Katrina Survivor List <http://www.cnn.com/safe>
Globe Coast News Katrina Survivor List
<http://kenburtonne.web116.discountasp.net/Katrina/Status.aspx>
New Orleans <http://www.neworleans.craigslist.org>
WDSU-TV6 New Orleans TV Station <http://www.wdsu.com/news>
New Orleans Newspaper <http://www.nola.com>
Hurricane Housing Information for Victims
<http://www.hurricanehousing.org>
Links to Emergency Management and Related Sites:
<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutlinkem.html>
See also:
Florida Division of Emergency Management
<http://www.floridadisaster.org/>
Alabama Emergency Management <http://www.disaster.ema.alabama.gov/>
Alabama Homeland Security <http://www.homelandsecurity.alabama.gov/>
Louisiana State Emergency Information
<http://www.lsp.org/emergency.html>
Louisiana Homeland Security <http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/>
Louisiana Governor's Office <http://www.gov.state.la.us/>
City of New Orleans <http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx>
Mississippi Emergency Management <http://www.msema.org/>
Mississippi Emergency Management Emergency Line: 1-800-222-MEMA(6362)
Mississippi Homeland Security <http://www.homelandsecurity.ms.gov/>
Disaster Relief Organizations:
American Red Cross <http://www.redcross.org>
Salvation Army <http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/>
United Way <http://national.unitedway.org/>
Catholic Charities <http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/>
Operation Blessing (800) 436-6348 <http://www.ob.org/>
United Jewish Communities <http://www.ujc.org>
United Methodists Relief Committee
<http://gbgm-umc.org/umcor/emergency/hurricanes/2005/>
Episcopal Relief <http://www.er-d.org/>
America's Second Harvest (800) 344-8070
<http://www.secondharvest.org/>
+ FINAL NOTE AND PREDICTION
This special edition is released on the anniversary of the September
11 bombings that changed all of our lives. As with the humanitarian
ARES response, then, it has been a privilege to monitor the
incredible ARES response to the current catastrophe. Bravo to you,
the ARES field activists.
It was also inspiring to see Newington and other staff give up their
holiday and other time to support the ARES effort. Bravo to them --
they are members of the HQ staff for all of the right reasons.
And now, the prediction: When the curtain is finally drawn on this
calamity, you will see Amateur Radio and ARES written -- or
re-written -- into a host of more governmental and non-governmental
organization plans for the future. Guaranteed. Mark my words on that
one. Get your pens ready. - K1CE
======================================================================
The ARES E-Letter is published on the third Wednesday of each month
by the American Radio Relay League--The National Association For
Amateur Radio--225 Main St, Newington, CT 06111; tel 860-594-0200;
fax 860-594-0259; <http://www.arrl.org/>. Jim Haynie, W5JBP,
President.
The ARES E-Letter is an e-mail digest of news and information of
interest to active members of the ARRL Amateur Radio Emergency
Service (ARES).
Material from The ARES E-Letter may be republished or reproduced in
whole or in part in any form without additional permission. Credit
must be given to The ARES E-Letter and The American Radio Relay
League.
Editorial questions or comments: Rick Palm, K1CE, k1...@arrl.net
Delivery problems (ARRL direct delivery only!): ares-e...@arrl.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your address for e-mail delivery:
ARRL members first must register on the Members Only Web Site,
http://www.arrl.org/members/. You'll have an opportunity during
registration to sign up for e-mail delivery of the The ARES E-Letter,
W1AW bulletins, and other material. ARRL members may subscribe to The
ARES E-Letter by going to the Member Data Page at:
http://www.arrl.org/members-only/memdata.html?modify=1
Note that you must be logged in to the site to access this page.
Scroll down to the section "Which of the following would you like
to receive automatically via email from ARRL?" Check the box for
"ARES E-Letter (monthly public service and emergency communications
news)" and you're all set.
Past issues of The ARES E-Letter are available at
http://www.arrl.org/ares-el/. Issues are posted to this page after
publication.
======================================================================
an_old_friend
Yes they failed never said otherwise
> Then please comment about
> the use of Hams to DISPATCH Police and Fire.
I see no such reference, I see a reference that mean that but it is not
clear what type of car or HT radio. Had this been Sanagamon
County(springfield IL area) or here (houghton County) the police and
fire systems can operate autonomouslys of the 800 MHZ system not as
well
> Not to mention the comment of
> how these same hams helped FIX these sites to attempt getting the Police and
> other Emergency agencies back on line.
Nice to see them lend a hand but of course this isn't passing a
message, and here at least many of hams able to fix such system are
also the poeple that installed them in the first place
>
> Please also note that these Ham teams VOLUNTARILY PUT THEMSELVES into the
> middle of one of worst, if not THEY worst ecological disaster in this
> countries history.
Never said otherwise
> Providing their own equipment, their own supplies, their
> own gas, etc. Note how much that is appreciated and does not ADD to the
> problem.
never said otherwise
>
> No bragging, no looking for headlines, in fact NO NAMES AT ALL. So tell me
> 'an old friend' where is all the bragging????????
you were the one Bragging personaly. I know you can't seem to seperate
yourself from the totality of the ARS.
>
> I doubt this will do a bit of good with you and your 1/3 of the newsgroup
> that support you. But these are the facts. Believe it if you want.
I see it and I see the ARRL is being more carefull than I have seen
them in the past not to over state the role of the ARS
>
> OR.....just remove the egg off you face and drop the subject.
of course anyone that dares disgree you in the slightest degree has
"egg" on their face
Michael A. Terrell
>
> The disaster of hurricane Katrina is of unparalleled proportions
> and ALL humane-thinking citizens can do their part, however big,
> however small.
And then, there are the morons and bigots:
<http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>
an_old_friend
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> "LenAn...@ieee.org" wrote:
> >
> > The disaster of hurricane Katrina is of unparalleled proportions
> > and ALL humane-thinking citizens can do their part, however big,
> > however small.
>
>
> And then, there are the morons and bigots:
> <http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>
I doubt they are the first to do so, I am certain they are will not be
the last.
Hopefully such actions will deliever a silver lining of forcing the
hand of the Govt to reign in the overbearing homowner assocations, as
hopefully, will the death and estruction in NO lead to finaly dealing
with the cities problems rather than just pushing them off till the
next admistration (at all levels)
Finnigann
Carl / W6VDC
> And then, there are the morons and bigots:
> <http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Ocala+Fl+Majestic+Oaks&btnG=Search+News>
I looked at the link and read a couple of the articles. I didn't see
anything that warranted labelling them bigots. I don't think that the
HOA took the proper position, but that doesn't make them bigots.
Dee Flint
"Carl / W6VDC" <carl....@cox.net> wrote in message
news:bnkVe.8821$mH.8469@fed1read07...
However it would seem to indicate that they lack humanitarianism.
Michael A. Terrell
They finally backed down today, after a change in the HOA and a
number of residents calling realtors to see if they could find another
home to move out of Majestic Oaks.
BTW, the same HOA tried to evict a resident after 9/11 for having the
nerve to display the American flag in one of their windows. The local
paper had printed a full page American flag on heavy paper stock and
asked people to display them in their homes.
Ham op
AKA CONTRACT, before judgments are made??
The exact wording of the HOA/CC&R may restrict certain activities [such
as external antennas, or temporary housing, etc]. The restriction can
only be waived by consent of the members of the HOA.
>
Carl / W6VDC
> nerve to display the American flag in one of their windows. The local
> paper had printed a full page American flag on heavy paper stock and
> asked people to display them in their homes.
It is exactly that type of over zealous HOA that made me tell my
Realtor, "Do not shot me a house with any HOA!" On our first trip out
, the first house she showed me had an HOA. I told her, "If you do
that again, you are fired" She looked shocked and said, "It's only
$50/month." And I replied, "It has nothing at all to do with money..."
Of course, now I have a house across the street with no less than 8
cars in the driveway and street. So much for single-family-home. But,
we all get along.
Carl
Jerry
I chose an older neighborhood, and, like you, I refused to accept any HOA
bullcrap. I simply will NOT tolerate any old blue-haired busybody telling
what I can or cannot do on my own property! IOW, yer rights end at that
property line, and if you don't like what I do then come over here and
*make* me do something about it--all 6 feet, 230 lbs of me!!! :) Now to
clarify something, all my neighbors are nice people who keep their homes and
property looking decent. If there are 2-3-4--or 7 cars over there, it ain't
none of my business! So we have no problems. (and I get to put up as many
ham antennas I want to!)
Jerry
Jerry
"Ham op" <ha...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0ICdncTJkPK...@comcast.com...
That's just it! There ain't gonna BE any HOA's ,covenants, or busybody
neighbors telling me to do a durned thing unless they got enough rear end on
'em to MAKE me! If today, somebody wanted to start an HOA in my
neighborhood, I'd tell them to kiss my (censored).
I feel VERY strongly about property rights, and if I want to put up an
American flag, then I'll put up an American flag and I dare some schweinhund
to come over here and touch it! I DESPISE and detest HOA's! :(
Jerry
>
>>
>
Ham op
Gerry, you said it correctly. Tell your agent "I will not consider,
under any conditions, any HOAs or CC&Rs." If the RE attorney uncovers
any 'hidden' CC&Rs in the title search, the sale is OFF!
I live in the "Live Free or Die" state [New Hampshire]. When I bought
here three years ago I made that point to our realtor. We bought a very
nice single family home of 2100 square feet on a 1/2 acre only 21 years
old, 6 miles south of the state capital and 12 miles north of the third
largest city.
I checked town zoning requirements for a tower. I'm allowed 70 feet for
the tower without requesting a variance. Also, if the tower is
professionally installed I need not consult the town building inspector.
Heights from 70 feet 1 inch to 200 feet require plan approval by the
building inspector ONLY for safety issues. BTW: my tower is only 50 feet
[I live on top of a 510 foot hill with height above average terrain of
250 feet for 5 miles radius].
But back to the original issue. The HOA may have a strict rule on
temporary housing. It is a freely entered into contract condition that
requires the consent of the contracting parties to amend.
So, the term 'BIGOT' is a prejudicial pre judgment.
KØHB
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindNOSPAMATALLspring.com> wrote
>
> As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here in
> Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red Cross
> on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY communications
> between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.
>
Often at considerable personal risk....
A guy who is a radio-tower contractor (like cell sites, microwave towers,
commercial radio stations, etc.) sent this.
--------------------------------
We got the call on Sunday afternoon. I expected
it, of course. After 18 years of doing this I can always sense when
the call is about to come. We gathered supplies on Monday and got
out the tents, Coleman fuel, cook stove, lanterns and bedrolls. Becky
graciously went to the store for our provisions, then to the bank for
cash, and by dark we had all in order.
We went by to see the customer on Tuesday morning to equip ourselves
with radios, site maps, and lists of those that we would be reporting
to. As we departed on Tuesday mid day I knew that this would be
another great adventure. All was good through Pine Bluff and Lake
Village, Arkansas. Greenville, Mississippi was even tolerable. By the
time we got to Yazoo City, however, things had changed. No ATM's, no
gas, no ice. I knew we were in trouble when the lines at the check
cashing places were longer than those at the banks. We had half a
tank. I had stopped in Dumas and bought 12 half pints of whiskey
knowing that with such legal tender a full tank could be mine
whenever I wished. We pressed on.
We arrived in Jackson to the sight of long lines at the gas stations
and grocery stores with crowds gathered outside. How wonderful it
felt to have the secure gates of the Entergy compound locked behind
us. There was little electricity and no hotel rooms. We readied the
camping supplies and checked the map for a good state park. A little
fuel from the Gods at Entergy and we were on our way. We found a
decent park (no electricity, of course) and pitched camp. Dinner was
chicken helper, mashed potatoes and tea. It began to rain but
thankfully we had brought a huge roll of Visqueen. A large tent was
erected above our sleeping bags and in no time Wednesday morning
found us nursing our mosquito bites and eating oatmeal. After that it
was off for a day in the air.
I should mention at this point that I brought my stellar lead man,
Paul Fitler. Paul spends too much time in jail, too much time in the
sauce, and too much time attending to women that can't take care of
themselves. He is constantly deep in debt and out of a place to live,
and good transportation. He is also the best, and highest paid
towerdog in the state. An average week for him is $1000.00 gross.
He'll easily double that during his tenure here. In fact, I'd imagine
that he may have a $2500.00 week before it's all over. He has worked
for me over eight years. He can't last working for anyone else more
than ten days.
We take off Wednesday in a search for fuel, ice, and towers on our
maps and find all of them. It is another long hard, hot day. We are
constantly greeted with bewildered folks looking at trees impaled in
their roofs, cars mangled and electric lines in their yards. We have
Entergy signs on the side of the van at this point and when they see
those signs their looks are heart wrenching and desperate. We look
back with sympathy. They do not understand. They want us to have the
answer. They want us to make it all better. They want relief which we
cannot give. We give 100% that day and many communications tower
sites come back to life. We see the line trucks begin to roll as we
leave town. We are glad to have played a part in this process.
Thursday finds us in the office. The telecom crew is going ballistic.
There are people everywhere barking out orders. So and so needs 19
phones installed at the office in Hattiesburg , the computers are
down at thus and so, the radio system has died at Tylertown and the
line crews can't work. The locals see the trucks sitting idle and
they are getting angry. The locals don't understand that the line
crews can't work unless they know for sure that lines are not
energized.
The line crews can't be assured of that unless they have good
communications. They can't have good communications unless the
telecom guys do their jobs and in turn, unless we get the antennae
fixed. So the locals are mad. Mad as Hell.
We listen to all of the banter going back and fourth and suddenly
someone is shoving a piece of paper in my face and screaming
loudly... Generating station (power plant) South of New Orleans .
it's off line... no output... city is dark enough as it is...
something has to be done. they need a 20 KW generator ASAP in order
to have lights so they can get the plant back in service. Someone has
to go. It is a war zone down there. The plant must come back to
life... And then the inevitable question: "Will you go?" It echoes in
my mind... Will I go? Will I? Can we take that chance? I smile.
Actually, I grin. Yeah. I'll go. I give them the inevitable response
to their inevitable question. "You bet your sweet ass I'll go...
Press hard pal, Five copies"!!!
We top off the tank, load the shotgun, holster the pistols and hit
the road. This is going to be a trip to remember. As we head out
there are few cars on the road. No gas. The traffic is minimal and we
set the cruise on 60 so as to conserve gas. Getting there will be
easy. Getting back will not be as assured. I know, however, that we
have enough gas to get to the plant and at least back to the
Mississippi/Louisiana state line. I've got food, ammo, tents and lots
of water. If I get stranded I'll be ok. We drive along saying little.
We know that one wrong turn or wrong word at the wrong time to the
wrong person could change things real quick.
With the Entergy signs on the truck we glide through every roadblock
with ease. Cops don't ask for our ID or license. They don't search
us. They really don't even look at us. We are riding on a magic
carpet. No one will mess with us. They can see what we have in tow.
Ah yes. The generator. The magic elixir that everyone wants.
Generators make oxygen systems work; they bring food refrigeration
units back to life; they bring light to the darkness, life to the
newborns at the hospital. We have the generator. We are the stewards
of all that the citizens hold sacred at the moment. We are the golden
boys. They smile us and we smile back.
We get onto I-310 and then onto US 90 headed for the plant and
suddenly our swollen heads and large egos begin to shrink. We are
greeted by bands of wandering blacks about 15 to 20 in number. Every
store front is destroyed. Some buildings are burned. All of the glass
is gone from every window. We do a quick mental calculation as to
wind direction during the storm. We realize quickly that many of the
broken windows are on the downwind side. We see the crowds... it all
makes sense then.
We get to the end of US 90 and make our turn towards the plant. We
are confronted by a policeman in full riot gear. The intersection is
desolate save for him. An industrial wasteland with this one shred of
order standing in the road. He reminds me of some cavalryman in
Oklahoma in the early 1800's or some sheriff in a town of lawless
criminals. He looks over our cargo curiously and gives us a halting
look, letting us know that "Entergy trucks have been taking fire in
this area. I suggest you remove or cover your decals".
We see the plant up ahead. The sign of the guard lowering his shotgun
is a welcome one. We make our delivery and point our truck for
Jackson.
The men at the plant we visit with are worried. They don't want to
risk the ride home. Some have wives and kids they must attend to.
They have no choice. The others opt to sleep in their trucks to avoid
venturing from the perceived safety of the 12 gauge in the hands of
the guard.
I envy neither of them. Either choice is dangerous. The gangs in the
streets are hungry, thirsty and angry. Neither the guard nor the men
on the way home are any match for them. The gangs know it and the men
know it. For the first time I understand the delicate balance between
prison guards and their charges. The criminals really do have the
upper hand at some moments. Everyone just allows the perceptions to
be different than that.
As we head home among fallen timbers, power lines and buildings we
come across a group of cops with side arms drawn and pointed at a
group of men. On the ground are 15 or 20 individuals cuffed and
laying on their faces. There are 9 or 10 cops and only 5 or 6 in the
crowd, save those on the ground, so we figure the cops are winning
and we punch it and move on. Every store has the front doors kicked
in. One shopkeeper had the brilliant idea of putting his coke
machines in front of the doors to prevent entry. The thugs were
offended and responded by putting a truck through the windows. After
they finished their shopping they left their calling card by way of a
Molotov cocktail. How quaint.
I thought we were going to burn a hole in the gas gauge on the way
home with our eyes. We calculated and recalculated. Every road sign
showing mileage to the next map point was checked and rechecked. We
were always cognizant of the five gallon can in the back. The fumes
it emanated were like sweet perfume to our olfactories. That was the
sweet smell of a soft landing. We knew that we could make it back. We
felt good about that.
I thought of the B-29 pilots flying missions over Japan in 1944.
Their calculations were much harder and there was much more at stake.
I wondered what it was like for them when they ran the numbers and
the result was death. What were those last hours like? What did they
say to one another? I said a prayer for their souls and paid my
respects. Real men. Let me never forget that.
My air mattress coupled with the floor of the Entergy Radio shop at
Jackson, MS was a welcome relief. I looked forward to a good night's
sleep only to be haunted by the looks of those on the streets. Why
them and not me? I guess I'll always ask that. I always have. Why am
I even here? What drives me to do these crazy things? Why would I put
my best lead man along with the father of my children in harm's way?
I don't know the answers to those questions. Frankly, I don't really
care about the answers. I'm just glad to be safe and alive tonight.
I feel bad for those that are without homes and families tonight and
wish I could do something to take away their pain.
I think when it is all over I may go back down to that stretch of
Highway 90 where the shops were burned. I think I may go back there
and meet with the owners. Yeah. That's what I'll do. I'll meet with
them. All that they have worked for was taken away from them by one
violent act of nature and many lewd acts of men. I'll go meet with
those men and women and engage in commerce with them as I can. And
when I do. I'll tell them that I understand. Because I do. And they
will know that I do. And in the end. I will know that everything will
be OK. And they will know that too.
Dan/W4NTI
Dee Flint
Why doesn't that surprise me?
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
Dee Flint
Nothing stops them from calling an immediate emergency meeting to address
temporarily suspending such limits in times of great need.
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
Dee Flint
And in times of major emergencies if they are not willing to call for a vote
and temporarily set such aside, then I would consider them not only bigots
but cold hearted. HOAs can VOTE for such measures.
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
KØHB
"Dee Flint" <deefl...@comcast.net> wrote
>
> Nothing stops them from calling an immediate emergency meeting to address
> temporarily suspending such limits in times of great need.
>
If a ham can only use their station "in times of great need" it's unlikely
they'd have the equipment to put into service, so it's all a moot point.
73, de Hans, K0HB
Dee Flint
"KØHB" <grou...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:upIVe.9968$Wd7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I was talking about temporarily taking in those left homeless and how it
shows a lack of humanitarianism.
The equipment thing is an entirely separate issue that needs addressed one
way or another as it cannot be left to the last minute as you point out.
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
KØHB
"Dee Flint" <deefl...@comcast.net> wrote
>
> I was talking about temporarily taking in those left homeless and how it shows
> a lack of humanitarianism.
>
O I C.
I have no HOA restrictions, but if I did have some like that, then they'd just
be friends visiting for a few weeks.
73, de Hans, K0HB
Michael A. Terrell
As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.
Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)
Hank Oredson
Cecil Moore
> Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
> them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)
Seems to me a large percentage of the blame lies with the
buyers who readily agree to such irrational HOA terms and
then complain about them later.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
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Jerry
>
>
> As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
> communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
> interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
> that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
> told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
> away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
> months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
> but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
> how expensive their home, or what they drive.
>
> Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
> them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)
>
> --
> ?
>
> Michael A. Terrell
> Central Florida
I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's. Now should I run into one of those SOB's that start telling me what I
can or can't do, then it will become another story. I feel so strongly
about property rights that I would go to WAR over it, both nationally...or
on a personal basis. Like, I wouldn't be averse to whuppin' some
smartmouth's you-know-what over it. Again, being very quiet and peaceable as
I certainly am, I am also quite intimidating in stature, so it would be an
interesting fight! LOL! Now, it *could* even get down to the point of
"You SOB, you can tell me what to do when you get around on the backside of
my shotgun, or you got enough
a$$ on ya to MAKE me, you *&^%$#"! LMAO!
In Charlotte, NC, this year, there was a case where the HOA Nazis and their
powermongers went too far with "foreclosures" and the NC legislature put
some restrictions on their ability to foreclose with respect to their
"rules".
Now, foreclosing on someone's house because some Nazi b#####d didn't LIKE
the peoples' guests? NOT!
(Not me because I don't HAVE that problem) I can see how this could cause
somebody to get severely injured or KILLED! You don't MESS with one's home!
:( I feel for those who have to put up with such nonsense! OTH, one should
NEVER move into such a place, either, so he bears some of the blame. :)
Best to all,
Jerry
Fred W4JLE
from my readings.
I get really tired of that old saw being hauled out and applied to people;
simply because others disagree with their actions.
A few moments spent perusing a dictionary will show that simply refusing to
take in a storm victim, while abhorrent to me, does not make one a bigot.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4324E0BD...@earthlink.net...
Richard Clark
wrote:
>A few moments spent perusing a dictionary will show that simply refusing to
>take in a storm victim, while abhorrent to me, does not make one a bigot.
>
from the Oxford English Dictionary:
Bigot. 1598. 1. A hypocrite. 2. A superstitious person - 1664. 3. A
person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a creed, opinion or
ritual - 1661. Intolerant toward others - 1645.
Hardly seems that the meaning has veered from this in the past 340
years.
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
Fred W4JLE
HOA rule that prohibits non family members from residing in a home.
"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4o4ji1p26o2mcctbk...@4ax.com...
Richard Clark
wrote:
>Perhaps you could show me where any of the offered definitions apply to an
>HOA rule that prohibits non family members from residing in a home.
You said it yourself:
>>refusing to take in a storm victim
exactly conforms to
>>>Intolerant toward others - 1645.
otherwise, why would you offer your opinion
>>while abhorrent to me
Christian charity is not fulfilled by a shrug of the HOA committee,
and members who enjoy the veil of these rules won't find it any easier
getting through the eye of the needle.
Percival P. Cassidy
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
>>Perhaps you could show me where any of the offered definitions apply to an
>>HOA rule that prohibits non family members from residing in a home.
<snip>
> Christian charity is not fulfilled by a shrug of the HOA committee,
> and members who enjoy the veil of these rules won't find it any easier
> getting through the eye of the needle.
Amen, Brother.
"Perce"
Fred W4JLE
"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t3aji1hsepkfap9c8...@4ax.com...
Cecil Moore
> Christian charity is not fulfilled by a shrug of the HOA committee,
> and members who enjoy the veil of these rules won't find it any easier
> getting through the eye of the needle.
The small "eye of the needle" gate at the walls of a city
was sized for human beings. It was camels that couldn't
get through it. Camels had to enter through the main gate.
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
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KØHB
"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote
>
> Christian charity is not fulfilled by a shrug of the HOA committee,
> and members who enjoy the veil of these rules won't find it any easier
> getting through the eye of the needle.
>
How is "Christian charity" different from other charity, and do I need to be a
member of your cult in order to get through the eye of the needle (and why would
I want to?)?
73, de Hans, K0HB
--
Homepage:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~k0hb
Member:
ARRL http://www.arrl.org
SOC http://www.qsl.net/soc
VWOA http://www.vwoa.org
A-1 Operator Club http://www.arrl.org/awards/a1-op/
TCDXA http://www.tcdxa.org
MWA http://www.w0aa.org
TCFMC http://www.tcfmc.org
FISTS http://www.fists.org
LVDXA http://www.upstel.net/borken/lvdxa.htm
NCI http://www.nocode.org
Richard Clark
wrote:
>How is "Christian charity" different from other charity
Hi Hans,
I will leave that to other faiths to describe for themselves. One
distinct difference between Christian charity and Islamic charity is
that Muslims are commanded to give the expected portion of their
charity directly to the afflicted. This means hand-to-hand.
>, and do I need to be a
>member of your cult in order to get through the eye of the needle (and why would
>I want to?)?
Complete the allusion and enlighten us to which cult offers fare
discounts for buying the way to Heaven. Of course, if you have no
interest in the destination, then the subject is rather transparent
and hardly requires comment.
Cecil Moore
> "Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote
>>Christian charity is not fulfilled by a shrug of the HOA committee,
>>and members who enjoy the veil of these rules won't find it any easier
>>getting through the eye of the needle.
>>
> How is "Christian charity" different from other charity, and do I need to be a
> member of your cult in order to get through the eye of the needle (and why would
> I want to?)?
Hans, Richard has obviously followed Christian principles by
selling all that he owns, giving the proceeds to the poor,
and becoming a pennyless missionary. But wait, he appears not
to have sold his computer yet. :-)
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
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KØHB
"Cecil Moore" <myc...@arrl.net> wrote
>
> Hans, Richard has obviously followed Christian principles by
> selling all that he owns, giving the proceeds to the poor,
> and becoming a pennyless missionary. But wait, he appears not
> to have sold his computer yet. :-)
> --
> 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
>
Cecil, you are one dangerous dude! Welcome back. I missed you.
Dee Flint
"Fred W4JLE" <w4...@w4jle.com> wrote in message
news:31f74$43299abf$471c63c6$12...@ALLTEL.NET...
Looks to me like all after number 2 apply especially that "unreasonably..."
since they chose to not consider accommodating the victims of the
catastrophe until publicity shined upon them.
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
an_old_friend
Discounts I don't know but Chatholic dogma still provides for the sale
of Indulenges for sin, even allowing them to be purchased for yone
firend and relitives post mortem
Luther thought the practice pro and so do most prods groups
Ron
was up before Charlie's by about 10 hours) didnt go out to all these other
groups, only to
alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf. Far to many spastic individuals replying with
unrelated and often inane comments. How come I'm not surprised.
Ron
"Charlie" <ch...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11htoge...@news.supernews.com...
> 1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
>
> --
>
> Charlie - AD5TH
> www.ad5th.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ham op
SNIPPED
>
> Discounts I don't know but Chatholic dogma still provides for the sale
> of Indulenges for sin, even allowing them to be purchased for yone
> firend and relitives post mortem
>
> Luther thought the practice pro and so do most prods groups
"friend" I challenge you to quote an official Catholic source to support
your 'sale' assertion!!
For those who may be interested in putting this outrageous statement to
rest, I suggest a trip to your local library and read the official
position of the Catholic Church. It is openly published in the public
documents of the Second Vatican Council, in a book titled "VATICAN
COUNCIL II - The Councilar and Post Councilar Documents", Section 1
titled: "The Constitution on The Sacred Liturgy", dated 4 December 1963,
Sub-section 1-6, dated 1 January 1967, titled "Indulgentiarum Doctrina"
paragraphs 1 through 18.
Please note that "an_old_friend" has stated another outrageously
erroneous misuse of language. 'friend' states "DOGMA". The official
pronouncement is DOCTRINAL, not Dogmatic. There is a very significant
distinction between the two words.
It has NEVER been the DOGMA of the Catholic Church to sell indulgences.
PERIOD! A period of clerical abuse of indulgences, contrary to the
Doctrinal position of the Church, did exist in history. Martin Luther
was correct to cite this failure in clergy practice. The abuse was
censured in the Council of Trent [ca 1545 - 1563].
Note[1] to 'an_old_friend': be sure of your facts before you post
outrageously erroneously statements.
Note[2] to 'an_old_friend': your 'prod' sources are also in error.
Signed Ham Op, Catholic Clergyman
Finnigann
Dan/W4NTI
"an_old_friend" <kons...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126821476.8...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Discounts I don't know but Chatholic dogma still provides for the sale
of Indulenges for sin, even allowing them to be purchased for yone
firend and relitives post mortem
Luther thought the practice pro and so do most prods groups
>
This has got to be the most outragious line of BS I have ever read. He is
beyond IGNORANT.
This IGNORANT FOOL is now jumping headlong into the "Chatholic" religion.
Oh I get it now....it is a whole NEW group. Most folks I know spell it
CATHOLIC. Now it makes sense......sort of.
Dan/W4NTI
Uncle Ted
wrote:
>Discounts I don't know but Chatholic dogma still provides for the sale
>of Indulenges for sin, even allowing them to be purchased for yone
>firend and relitives post mortem
>
>Luther thought the practice pro and so do most prods groups
It's bad enough that people feel a need to believe in any deities at
all, but when you have to listen to a bunch of old men in robes half a
world away tell you how to live your life, you're pretty screwed up.
JRK
Charlie
--
Charlie
"Uncle Ted" <mali...@verizon.com> wrote in message
news:ci1ni1dmf3cnhek0h...@4ax.com...
Charlie
noble quest I might add....
--
Charlie
"JRK" <byrd...@netins.net> wrote in message
news:dgg6ho$42p$1...@news.netins.net...
Finnigann
Fred W4JLE
Uncle Ted" <mali...@verizon.com> wrote in message
> It's bad enough that people feel a need to believe in any deities at
Charlie
Charlie
--
Charlie
"Fred W4JLE" <w4...@w4jle.com> wrote in message
news:17b21$432c3942$471c63c6$27...@ALLTEL.NET...
Ham op
Ted, I'll pray for you. There's nothing you can do about it!
+ + +
LenAn...@ieee.org
>It has NEVER been the DOGMA of the Catholic Church to sell indulgences.
>PERIOD! A period of clerical abuse of indulgences, contrary to the
>Doctrinal position of the Church, did exist in history. Martin Luther
>was correct to cite this failure in clergy practice. The abuse was
>censured in the Council of Trent [ca 1545 - 1563].
Did his karma run over your dogma? :-)
n0vfp...@yahoo.com
Fred W4JLE wrote:
> Weak Richard, but we love you no less.
Yeah, but he's a little older than the boys you usually molest, queer.
n0vfp...@yahoo.com
Fred W4JLE wrote:
> Would someone put something in "Uncle Ted's" mouth, my zipper is stuck...
The tweezers get stuck again?
Dan/W4NTI
Lennie.
Dan/W4NTI
<LenAn...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1126987193.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Finnigann
Finnigann
ka...@sonic.net
wrote:
>Perhaps you could show me where any of the offered definitions apply to an
>HOA rule that prohibits non family members from residing in a home.
>
>
The "wedded to ...." one
>"Richard Clark" <kb7...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:4o4ji1p26o2mcctbk...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:41:17 -0400, "Fred W4JLE" <w4...@w4jle.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >A few moments spent perusing a dictionary will show that simply refusing
>to
>> >take in a storm victim, while abhorrent to me, does not make one a bigot.
>> >
>> from the Oxford English Dictionary:
>>
>> Bigot. 1598. 1. A hypocrite. 2. A superstitious person - 1664. 3. A
>> person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a creed, opinion or
>> ritual - 1661. Intolerant toward others - 1645.
>>
>> Hardly seems that the meaning has veered from this in the past 340
>> years.
>>