Calling CQ on VHF/UHF
FurBid Furry Auctions
Having been on the air only a short time, I'm still unfamiliar with some
of the 'unwritten rules'. I've yet to get my HF privs, so I'm still
only on VHF/UHF. However, I'd like to make random simplex contacts a la
HF (but with much less range, of course). Is it kosher to call CQ on 2M
FM simplex freqs, or is that only really done on sideband? I'd rather
find this out here, rather than have it pointed out to me on the air
>:-)
73 de Jeff KG6KCO
Mike Yetsko
news:3D698D4A...@furnation.com...
Well, do what you feel comfortable with.
But... As a 'general' statement... You don't call CQ where things are
'channelized'. With the exception of ATV. I've seen 'CQ' screens
there.
But on 2M, calling 'CQ' or any of the 'hf' type activities is frowned on
in FM modes, but fine on SSB.
On FM, just announce your call, then listen. If someone wants to talk,
they'll come back to you. If your really 'aggressive', just say your call
and 'listening'.
Thing is, on FM a lot of people listen but don't talk unless you're one of
their friends. And a call or a call with listening doesn't matter much.
Mike
Bob M.
news:umj3ujo...@corp.supernews.com...
> On FM, just announce your call, then listen. If someone wants to talk,
> they'll come back to you. If your really 'aggressive', just say your call
> and 'listening'.
>
Poor operating if you ask me. If you want to talk & don't know if anyone is
there, simply ask if anyone's on freq.
> Thing is, on FM a lot of people listen but don't talk unless you're one of
> their friends. And a call or a call with listening doesn't matter much.
Exactly. So why do it? I'm one of those that don't respond to those who say
"<call> monitoring" because I could care less if they're monitoring or not.
Answering just encourages such behavior in the future. Frankly it has
nothing to do with being friends or not. If you want to talk, say so! If
you want to monitor, don't say anything.
Jedi
Here in the UK it's fairly common to call CQ on the 2m/70cm simplex
frequencies (usually via the traditional calling ch freq's, e.g. 145.500).
Cheers,
J.
Mike Yetsko
"Bob M." <n...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:E_ha9.27003$_91...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> "Mike Yetsko" <j...@user.com> wrote in message
> news:umj3ujo...@corp.supernews.com...
> > On FM, just announce your call, then listen. If someone wants to talk,
> > they'll come back to you. If your really 'aggressive', just say your
call
> > and 'listening'.
>
> Poor operating if you ask me. If you want to talk & don't know if anyone
is
> there, simply ask if anyone's on freq.
Boy, do YOU sound pissy! But no matter.
In this area (and in Texas, and PA, where I've lived and traveled) if you
ask if anyone is 'on frequency', it's perceived that you want to USE the
frequency for a sked or otherwise a specific call. Making that call can
bring some people out of the woodwork that were talking and have
gone idle for some time, where they'll say "we have a QSO going" or
whatever.
Hey, I'm not saying good or bad, just what is.
But I'd really like to know how you get off calling that 'poor operating'.
Or are you one of the guys who nit-picks people? Like the quy who
even went so far as to write the letter to QST complaining about people
who say their call and then 'for ID'.
Like I said, I'm not rating it good or bad, I'm saying 'what is'.
> > Thing is, on FM a lot of people listen but don't talk unless you're one
of
> > their friends. And a call or a call with listening doesn't matter much.
>
> Exactly. So why do it? I'm one of those that don't respond to those who
say
> "<call> monitoring" because I could care less if they're monitoring or
not.
> Answering just encourages such behavior in the future. Frankly it has
> nothing to do with being friends or not. If you want to talk, say so! If
> you want to monitor, don't say anything.
Exactly. For everyone who talks, there must be hundreds who listen,
and just don't want to 'get involved' with some stranger on the radio.
Like you. And let's not even forget the number of people out there
with scanners.
Some people in HAM radio DO want to talk to other people, they DO
want to occasionally talk to strangers. They are sociable people, not
people who take offense when someone says 'monitoring'. Geesh.
You don't have to talk to those people. No one said you did. But don't
take offense that other might want to.
Thing is, 2M FM is different from almost anywhere else in HAM radio.
There are guys that do nothing BUT listen. I met one guy that broke in
on our conversation once to ask a question. He was listening and really
got interested, and only broke in to ask when the conversation went to
a different direction. Turned out the guy had been a HAM for years,
was VERY active on HF, but breaking in was his FIRST TIME he
had ever done that, other than a quick check of the radio when he
bought it. The radio was in his vehicle for over 2 years, and he never
had done anything except listen.
2M has turned into the HAM equivalent of a 'chat line', for better or
for worse. No, not the whole 2M band, but the 'congregation' areas
of 2M. The popular repeaters more than anything. If you don't like
it, don't listen to it. Really, there's tons of repeaters almost
everywhere,
so I'm sure anyone can find a home for the type of social behavior they
feel is most comfortable. Just don't take offense at others.
Mike
Dan/W4NTI
First personal here is
Ten Four
Come Back
You know what I mean.
Dan/W4NTI
"FurBid Furry Auctions" <fur...@furnation.com> wrote in message
news:3D698D4A...@furnation.com...
Ralph Mowery
repeaters I like to just say my call leters and sometimes I will give the
last numbers of the frequency. For example if the otuput of the repeater
is 146.94 then I would say "ku4pt on 94". This is because there are
several repeaters in the area that are not used too much and many hams are
scanning them. Some are on 2 meters and some are on the 440 band.. This
lets them know which repeater you are on.
For simplex (say 146.52) I usually just say "cq 52 ku4pt" . For FM there
is no need to give out a long call so that others can tune in like they
would have to on ssb or cw. One other thing I make it a practice to do is
to key the mic for a second or two before calling. This allows the hams
receivers that may be scanning to stop and if the subaudio tones are being
used it will give them time to lock up and activate the receivers.
Mike Yetsko
"Ralph Mowery" <rmo...@cetlink.net> wrote in message
news:akd9bm$149s$1...@newsreader.cetlink.net...
> One other thing I make it a practice to
do is
> to key the mic for a second or two before calling. This allows the hams
> receivers that may be scanning to stop and if the subaudio tones are being
> used it will give them time to lock up and activate the receivers.
Good point! But there's also another reason. Some repeaters have
'active' and 'idle' states. Active is when they are being used, and they
come up right away. But, once they are 'idle' for a preset amount of time
after their last ID, they can go into an 'idle' state where they will NOT
come up on short signals. This not only limits 'kerchunking', but it also
can keep a repeater 'quiet' if there's sporadic problems with noise burst.
One local repeater here does that, and the problem is that if you're on
the fringe, you have to hold carrier for 3 or 4 or sometimes even more
seconds before it 'goes active' and 'starts repeating.
Mike
Randy A. Hefner
> "<call> monitoring" because I could care less if they're monitoring or not.
> Answering just encourages such behavior in the future. Frankly it has
> nothing to do with being friends or not. If you want to talk, say so! If
> you want to monitor, don't say anything.
Wow! It is friendly people like you that makes the amateur radio
service such a joy!
Randy
KD4OWL
Dan/W4NTI
about nothing of importance. Sorta like those guys on USENET that complain
about your spelling and ignore the question.
Well Randy let me give you a reality check here. VHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
It is a little play toy for those that can't hack it in real ham stuff. You
know the stuff like HF, weak signal VHF/UHF, Meteor Scatter, EME, etc.
Get on there and enjoy as much of it as you can stand. Then leave it to
those that want to order a pizza without paying for a phone call.
Now I'll hear from the emergency guys/gals. Been there done that. The
first thing to go in a real emergency is the high hilltop antenna's with the
'machines' tied to them.
Dan/W4NTI
"Randy A. Hefner" <randy_NO_S...@frs-usa.com> wrote in message
news:b03b87e2.02082...@posting.google.com...
rich rookie
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:ake6m5$qbq$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> Well Randy let me give you a reality check here. VHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
> It is a little play toy for those that can't hack it in real ham stuff.
You
> know the stuff like HF, weak signal VHF/UHF, Meteor Scatter, EME, etc.
>
Well I'm gonna get myself flamed for this, but hey, I've got my asbestos
suit on.
It' isn't ham radio - no? Well then lets hear for it to be opened to the
general public, like FRS. OK? No more testing, nuisnace that it is every 10
years. Lets have a poll.
I guess I'll never be a REAL ham, I can't put an antenna in my yard.
I'm glad there are some LNHs (Tm) (licensed non hams) around her for me to
talk to on 1.2 FM
Ham radio ought to be what _you_ make out of it. If it's talking to friends
while you're atop mountiains, or just ordering pizza, or even EME. If you
are enjoying it then that's what it's about.
Let me see someone carry their EME to the top of some 14'ers. I carry my
(non)-Ham HT all the time in the mountains and talk to people far away.
just my 2¢ worth
rich rookie KG6DOH
Randy A. Hefner
It is entirely approprate to call CQ on FM simplex frequencies. I
wouldn't do it on repeaters, but I see nothing wrong with it on
simplex.
Randy
KD4OWL
WA8ULX
>general public, like FRS. OK?
It basically is now, no Real Testing Required, no knowledge needed at all,
just memorize a bunch of Questions and Answers that have no real meaning.
rich rookie
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826190804...@mb-mq.aol.com...
This is going to turn into the code/no-code debate, isn't it. Well, for what
it's worth it isn't quite the same as FRS, at least not yet. There's still
the commitment of time and the effort required to take the test. FRS, well
we all know it's just $15 or $20 and away you go. 2m might be crowded and
more like FRS, but 220, 440 and 1.2G are still pretty good. Terrestrial 2.4
has been pretty much ruined here by non-licensed part 15.
I would hope that people aren't just memorizing Q1->A1 etc. I find these
people (a gross generalization, I know), are also the ones trying to find a
cheap alternative to cell phones. They soon realize it itsn't and loose
interest.
rich rookie KG6DOH (oh, and my call sign says it DOH -> don't operate ham,
see I knew it)
PawPaw
as you are.
I just hope my Grandkids never hear you on the air, because I'm sure you
would spoil Ham Radio for them.
You need to turn your ticket in and get out of this hobby that gives you
such little pleasure other than dragging other people down to your level.
To the Real Amateurs of this Group, I apologize-
____________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________
The Amateur's Code
The Radio Amateur is
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the
pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local
clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in
the United States is represented nationally and internationally.
PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient
station and operation above reproach.
FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and
counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration
for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.
BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to
family, job, school or community.
PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and
community.
--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826190804...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Bob M.
> >
> Hey, I'm not saying good or bad, just what is.
>
> But I'd really like to know how you get off calling that 'poor operating'.
> Or are you one of the guys who nit-picks people?
No. If they want to operate that way, fine. Have at it.
If someone asks for directions or local info on a repeater, I answer. If
someone ID's as "<call> monitoring" then I let them keep monitoring the
silence.
See How to be a Lid, step 24: http://www.webdeals.net/lid.htm
Mike Yetsko
Thanks, but I don't think I need the reference. Seems you've
already made all the reference I need.
Mike
WA8ULX
Who said anything about the CODE, I was talking about the Written Joke Test.
WA8ULX
>as you are.
>
Im not bitter at life.
>You need to turn your ticket in and get out of this hobby that gives you
>such little pleasure other than dragging other people down to your level.
>
Sure thing Mr Cber
>To the Real Amateurs of this Group, I apologize-
>
You should
>The Amateur's Code
>The Radio Amateur is
>
PURE BS
PawPaw
I'm only about 30 miles away from you :-)
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826221403...@mb-fc.aol.com...
David Little
appreciate your stance. Not to forget the AMSAT offerings that have a FM
mode on 2m. Funny. I have worked SAREX voice and packet, and digipeated
through the ISS; worked Oscar 21 and tracked other LEO sats with both a
highly automated AZ/EL tracking circular polarized antenna system, and a
simple groundplane... and never got the first pizza out of the deal. And,
by the way, cell phones weren't and option when some of these contacts were
being made. Maybe you may want to enlighten some of the folks who
contributed to the book "Beyond Line of Sight" that was compiled for print
that their accomplishments were made for the benefit of future pizza
offerings. Maybe you can educate the members of RSGB with your revelation
about what is and isn't real Ham radio. One thing for sure, folks with a
view of Ham Radio such as you will assure that the hobby won't survive much
longer for future generations to enjoy..... I have worked my share of SSB
weak signal, Meteor Scatter, SSB OSCAR sats also. Having said that, I
would never discourage anyone from trying to work the furthermost distance
in what ever mode they have available. There is no better way to learn the
strengths and weakness of a mode of operation than actual experience. I bet
you never have tried to achieve a distance record on FM horizontal to
horizontal either, have you? Isn't packet a FM mode? How about APRS? What
about other digital modes? Are you simply so intimidated by new technology
that you have to try to discourage others from learning more than you know
about it? Please give these questions some thought before you embarrass
yourself again.... If you ever should be unfortunate enough to get yourself
scattered across a few miles of highway in an accident, please hope that the
EMS or Highway Safety personnel aren't involved in a pissing contest about
the merits of FM communications above 30 MHz. It may affect your ability to
make rash statements in the future.
David
KD4NUE
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:ake6m5$qbq$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
PawPaw
I don't think you're a real Ham-
You stole someone's call :-)
"PawPaw" <Paw...@granpa.com> wrote in message
news:LwBa9.1716$N%4.15...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
WA8ULX
>
>I'm only about 30 miles away from you :-)
So is that supposed to thrill me?
PawPaw
Because a *Real* Ham wouldn't be using the Internet to talk anyway :-)
that's only for us Non-Hams :-)
Or as you like to say, us CB-Extras.
Unless you would like an eyeball QSO-
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826225441...@mb-fc.aol.com...
WA8ULX
No thats not what I say, what I say is CBplussers
>Because a *Real* Ham wouldn't be using the Internet to talk anyway :-)
Oh so your not even a CBplusser
Richard Schwaninger
WA8ULX wrote:
> >This is going to turn into the code/no-code debate, isn't it.
>
> Who said anything about the CODE, I was talking about the Written Joke Test.
You're right no one mentioned code. But I did figure it might go that way. And
again, you're right, the test is pretty easy.
For what it's worth I just wanted to point out you don't need to be active on HF
or EME or meteor to be a ham and enjoy it. There's more to it than that. Setting
up a linked repeater system that covers half the state and is accessible almost
everywhere with a HT is also an accomplishment. I haven't done it, but I
appreciate the effort of those who have and I help them when I can.
I'm quite content without the bigger more elaborate setups required for HF or
weak signal work. I find my happiness climbing mountains and talking to others
from remote places, from inside a tent in a storm, describing where I'm at. Sort
of like a mini DXpedition. Catch me on a wall, or a bivy at 13000ft, listen and
hear me call from a trail where no other person has been in a hundred years.
That too is HAM radio - no?
My kids get more excited hearing me talk to someone on a repeater while I'm away
than they would be sitting in a room listening to code splashing from a speaker.
If they get interested in radio, it'll be because of this, not worldwide HF
communications, they have e-mail and video for that.
And if some out there don't want to talk to me, if there are some HAMs who think
I'm not one, because all I'm carrying with me is a UHF FM HT, well, then that's
ok with me too.
Rich rookie KG6DOH
Randy A. Hefner
>
> It is a little play toy for those that can't hack it in real ham stuff. You
> know the stuff like HF, weak signal VHF/UHF, Meteor Scatter, EME, etc.
>
It's not ham radio? Then why are you required to have an amateur
radio license to operate on it?
> Get on there and enjoy as much of it as you can stand. Then leave it to
> those that want to order a pizza without paying for a phone call.
>
> Now I'll hear from the emergency guys/gals. Been there done that. The
> first thing to go in a real emergency is the high hilltop antenna's with the
> 'machines' tied to them.
>
> Dan/W4NTI
>
It is hams like you, Dan that further the service to the level
American ham radio is today.
Randy
WA8ULX
>American ham radio is today.
>
>Randy
Keep up the GOOD WORK Dan
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826190804...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Dan/W4NTI
about FRS but you? You want to talk about FRS then go to a FRS site. Lets
at least TRY and stay on the subject. And what is that you ask....
The subject was/is V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
Dan/W4NTI
"rich rookie" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:4Sya9.14537$Ik.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020826221113...@mb-fc.aol.com...
Dan/W4NTI
RADIO.
I'll read on down now and see if ANYONE has figured this out yet.
Dan/W4NTI
"Richard Schwaninger" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:3D6B05FD...@alpineclimb.org...
rich rookie
> Hey 'rich rookie' whats this fixation with FRS? Who the hell is talking
> about FRS but you? You want to talk about FRS then go to a FRS site.
Lets
> at least TRY and stay on the subject. And what is that you ask....
>
> The subject was/is V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
>
> Dan/W4NTI
>
So, if V/UHF isn't HAM Radio what is it? Why did I need to memorize all
those questions for a test?
rich rookie
Dan/W4NTI
same as you seem to think.
V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
What is so hard to comprehend about that comment?
Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.
1. Kerchunk.....Kerchunk.....Kerchunk......this is KB4XYZ, monitoring.
No reply....Kerchunk.......WB4XYZ this is K4XYZ you around Bernie???
Kerchunk.....ya this is K4XYZ go ahead Fred.......yapps for a half
hour....bitching and moaning about all the new guys not knowing how to
operate.
Kerchunk.......V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. It is a kids toy. It is for
those too lazy to actually do and/or contribute something to the service.
And yes I have done many of the things you have mentioned. In fact way back
in 1963 I was involved in a test to determine the best polarization,
horizontal or vertical, to work through hilly NE Ohio and Western PA
terrain. This with a homebrew 10 watt transmitter to various beams and
quads built for this test.
And yes I played with satellites and with hams in space. I was on OSCAR in
the 70s from Germany. I uplinked with a modified for CW Gonset 3 to a
homebrew 4 element yagi. Downlinked with a 80meter dipole on ten meters.
And it worked well.
Ever hear of Owen Garriot? The FIRST HAM IN SPACE? I tried to work him,
but didn't get through. But he had a heck of a fine signal describing to
the world how the Mississippi valley looked from space...
Ive even done SSTV before computers came into use. Not to mention real
ATV...you know the fast scan stuff.
And I actually heard my signal off the moon once. Using 4 10 element cross
yagi's homebrew. The TX was a pair of 4CX250b's in plumber delight
construction. The rx was a 416b gold plated triode tube front end to a
noisy 6J6 mixer stage. Receiving on a military surplus receiver. Just a
ping or two. But I did it.
V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
Dan/W4NTI
"David Little" <dali...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:akeoh0$3lv$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020827091357...@mb-cu.aol.com...
rich rookie
I already said,
> You're right no one mentioned code. But I did figure it might go that way.
Did you not read that?
rich rookie
rich rookie
> Nobody said anything about enjoying it either. I said that V/UHF IS NOT
HAM
> RADIO.
>
> I'll read on down now and see if ANYONE has figured this out yet.
>
Again, then what is it? YOU said it isn't so tell me what it is.
Is ham radio strictly HF? Only RTTY? Is it transmitting in code. Please tell
me.
rich rookie
rich rookie
"Randy A. Hefner" <randy_NO_S...@frs-usa.com> wrote in message
news:b03b87e2.02082...@posting.google.com...
news:<ake6m5$qbq$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
> >
> > Well Randy let me give you a reality check here. VHF FM IS NOT HAM
RADIO.
> > It is a little play toy for those that can't hack it in real ham stuff.
You
> > know the stuff like HF, weak signal VHF/UHF, Meteor Scatter, EME, etc.
> >
>
> It's not ham radio? Then why are you required to have an amateur
> radio license to operate on it?
Dan states that V/UHF FM isn't Ham radio, but won't say what it is, or why
it's not. It's HIS opinion, and he's entitled to it. But he doesn't make the
rules, so it doesn't matter what he believes it is or isn't.
rich rookie
Dan/W4NTI
Russian Cosmonaut.
Owen Garriot was the first ham to talk on ham radio from space.
Dan/W4NTI
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgcrr$er$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Dwight Stewart
>
> (snip) V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. (snip)
>
> Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.
>
> 1. Kerchunk.....Kerchunk.....Kerchunk......this
> is KB4XYZ, monitoring. No reply....Kerchunk....
> ...WB4XYZ this is K4XYZ you around Bernie???
> Kerchunk.....ya this is K4XYZ go ahead Fred....
> ..yapps for a half hour....bitching and moaning
> about all the new guys not knowing how to
> operate.
>
> Kerchunk.......V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. It is a
> kids toy. It is for those too lazy to actually do
> and/or contribute something to the service.
>
>
> Ever hear of Owen Garriot? The FIRST HAM IN SPACE?
> I tried to work him, but didn't get through. But he
> had a heck of a fine signal describing to the world
> how the Mississippi valley looked from space...
What, you mean Owen Garriot just talked about the things that interested
him at the moment, like the KB4XYZ example you gave above? Did he order a
pizza too? Why is Owen Garriot a ham for running his mouth, but others
aren't when they do the same?
Dwight Stewart (W5NET)
Mike Yetsko
> Nobody said anything about enjoying it either. I said that V/UHF IS NOT
HAM
> RADIO.
>
> I'll read on down now and see if ANYONE has figured this out yet.
>
> Dan/W4NTI
Hmm, are you trying to be cute? Or are you just one of those lids
who think that the reason they are into HAM radio is the ONLY
reason to be into HAM radio?
Mike
Dwight Stewart
>
> It basically is now, no Real Testing Required,
> no knowledge needed at all, just memorize a
> bunch of Questions and Answers that have no
> real meaning.
BS, Bruce. The tests today are no less difficult than the tests hams took
years ago, and those hams used a study guide to pass that test - a study
guide with the answer to each question on the test. Today, that study guide
is in the form of a question pool. Years ago, hams memorized what was in the
study guide. Today, hams memorize what is in the question pool. The earlier
tests had very little that isn't included in today's tests. Today's tests
have much that was not included in those earlier tests (digital, RF exposure
tables, and so on).
David Little
bright. However, it's ultimate demise won't be due to the newbies as much
as the old guard whining and moaning about them. There are far more
examples of communications via FM above 50 MHz than just voice. Even if
voice on FM was the only criteria for this discussion, the percentage that
makes up your firepower is far less than the percentage that use FM
effectively every day.
Remember, opinion is separated from debate by the introduction of fact. You
are entitled to your opinion; no matter how void of semantic content it may
be. I will go as far as to shed blood for your right to spew that factual
vacuum for all the world to see...... But, you are preaching to a very
small congregation here, and some of your supporters are already jumping
ship.... Enjoy you view and participation of the hobby. Just remember the
younger members of the Ham Radio extended family already have an honorary
service to aid you and your comrades at the end of your journey... It is
called Pallbearers 'R Us. In other words, most of those you are attempting
to insult will have the last laugh by out living you. For the future of Ham
Radio, this is probably considered to be a good thing
David
KD4NUE
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgcrr$er$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Dwight Stewart
> (snip) VHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. (snip)
Nobody made you the judge of what is, or is not, ham radio.
rich rookie
"Dwight Stewart" <ste...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B99160A1.76DD%ste...@sc.rr.com...
I'd still like him to tell everyone what, in his opinion, is ham radio. He's
just said what it is not, that's too easy.
rich rookie KG6DOH
Dan/W4NTI
and show me where the FCC calls it a hobby.
And yes you will likely outlive me and those of my antique ilk. But guess
what David? You will have the honor of some smart ass youngster like
yourself saying the same to you some day. Assuming there is a ham radio
left.
Dan/W4NTI
"David Little" <dali...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:akgoo0$ho7$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"Dwight Stewart" <ste...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B9915765.76DA%ste...@sc.rr.com...
Dan/W4NTI
Ham radio is NOT A HOBBY. It is a SERVICE. When it ceases to provide a
service and is only used as a hobby then it will degenerate even further
down the scale.
The only thing keeping us from be annexed into the 11 meter madness is those
that actually do something besides run their mouth on V/U/HF. Contribute
something. Do something...anything....But remember it is a SERVICE.
I feel like I am beating a dead horse here. It is so obvious that there is
a total lack of give a damn about the traditions of Amateur Radio these
days.
You have malcontents jamming, playing music, trashing someone because of
their class of license. etc. Bitching and moaning about having to learn
CW. And bottom line is no one is gonna help the new guy. Bull.
Most of the new guys have it already figured out...don't ya? To heck with
what the traditions are in Amateur Radio...were gonna do it our way and let
the old foggies move aside. Sound about right? Well it certainly looks
that way to me.
And the best part is I'm being attacked because I had the gall to actually
bring it up. Well excuse me. You go ahead and talk on your FM fun
machine. I'll go do ham radio.
Im not against the new ham. Even though I have seen ham radio being pulled
down lower and lower in technical and operational standards I don't blame
the new ham. I blame the FCC and society in general. Maybe at the age of
56 I am just getting too old for this crap. The I want it all and I want it
now and I don't want to pay my dues sort of stuff is what I'm talking about.
Remember...ITS NOT A HOBBY. This is a good place to start to understand
what you are into....this Ham Radio stuff. Its not about feeling good. Its
not a glorified CB. etc. etc. IT IS A SERVICE.
I hold the ARRL directly responsible for pushing the image of hobby on Ham
Radio. I hold the FCC and the ARRL responsible for this insane volunteer
examiner program. I hold them both responsible for the incentive licensing
system that has all but destroyed this service. And I hold you new hams
responsible for refusing to even learn about the traditions and the history
of this wonderful service. You should all hold your heads in shame. But
most of all I hold you older hams responsible FOR NOT ELMERING these people.
Now if any of this bothers someone....good.
Dan/W4NTI
"rich rookie" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:oRRa9.14927$Ik.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"Dwight Stewart" <ste...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B99160A1.76DD%ste...@sc.rr.com...
rich rookie
> Ham radio is NOT A HOBBY. Take out your copy of part 97 (if you have
one)
> and show me where the FCC calls it a hobby.
>
since you asked:
§97.1 Basis and purpose.
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur
radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following
principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the
public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with
respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute
to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which
provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases
of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of
trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance
international goodwill.
It doesn't call it a hobby, but take a close look at b.) Advancement of the
radio art. Is that where it says UHF FM isn't ham radio? Why? Because most
FM receiver as bought and not built from scratch?
I've actually done a.) emergency communications. Real life and death
situations, and it was on UHF FM, and it probably couldn't have been done
otherwise. Does that make it ham radio then?
You still haven't given your definition of ham radio. I doubt you will.
rich rookie KG6DOH
Mike Yetsko
> "WA8ULX" wrote:
> >
> BS, Bruce. The tests today are no less difficult than the tests hams
took
> years ago, and those hams used a study guide to pass that test - a study
> guide with the answer to each question on the test. Today, that study
guide
> is in the form of a question pool. Years ago, hams memorized what was in
the
> study guide. Today, hams memorize what is in the question pool. The
earlier
> tests had very little that isn't included in today's tests. Today's tests
> have much that was not included in those earlier tests (digital, RF
exposure
> tables, and so on).
>
>
> Dwight Stewart (W5NET)
>
> http://www.qsl.net/w5net/
Holy cow!! I agree with Dwight! And strongly!
There was an interesting post that went around a while back comparing
what was needed to pass a test and what was available to study. And
by all accounts, todays HAMs have it toughest.
I know, sounds wierd, but true. The number of topics today FAR exceeds
what was needed to learn to pass. And the study guides today are actual
study guides, not cheat sheets.
I've heard it said the easiest test to pass were the late 70's. Not only
were
the topics and questions EXTREMELY limited, but the 'so called' study
guides like the Bash books gave hopefuls almost an exact template to the
test.
If anything, HAMs licensed prior to 1990 or so had the easiest of all.
(And yes, I guess I have to admit being one. I was licensed in 1981.
But to be honest, when I took the test, the only thing I had to work at
for the whole thing was the code. The Novice and Tech I read the
book once and passed the test.)
Mike
Mike Yetsko
Boy are you screwed up an bitter!!
But, rather than knock your arguements across the board, I'll just
take the one that I feel is most 'technically' wrong. Not the ones
that are 'emotionally' wrong.
I think the technical standards are at an all time high. Oh, not in some
of the selected areas like HF operations, but face facts. It was time
for the old farts that were HF only gurus to go the way of the Model T.
Not that Model T's aren't neat to have. Heck, I can put classic plates
on 2 of my vehicles (in 3 more years I can add a 3rd one), and I'm
thinking of a 1940 Cadillac for my son... But that doesn't mean that
a new Mustang or Dodge Viper isn't appreciated.
Get out of your bitter slump where things that don't meet the frame of
reference you started with aren't as good. That's the same attitude
that for years wanted only 'Extras' to be able to be control operators
from spacecraft.
The hobby grew, the hobby changed, the hobby is better than it ever
was. And yes, the service aspect of the hobby has changed. It does
more than ever before. So wake up and take a look at reality, and
swallow that bitter pill and get rid of it.
Mike
rich rookie
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgroc$96i$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> Ham radio is NOT A HOBBY. It is a SERVICE. When it ceases to provide a
> service and is only used as a hobby then it will degenerate even further
> down the scale.
>
> The only thing keeping us from be annexed into the 11 meter madness is
those
> that actually do something besides run their mouth on V/U/HF. Contribute
> something. Do something...anything....But remember it is a SERVICE.
>
Like contesting? That's a service?
> I feel like I am beating a dead horse here. It is so obvious that there
is
> a total lack of give a damn about the traditions of Amateur Radio these
> days.
>
Traditions change, and leave those who won't behind, reminiscing about the
good 'ol times.
> You have malcontents jamming, playing music, trashing someone because of
> their class of license. etc. Bitching and moaning about having to
learn
> CW. And bottom line is no one is gonna help the new guy. Bull.
>
> Most of the new guys have it already figured out...don't ya? To heck
with
> what the traditions are in Amateur Radio...were gonna do it our way and
let
> the old foggies move aside. Sound about right? Well it certainly looks
> that way to me.
Not at all. You want to rag chew (service right) on 30m, that's fine. I want
to talk to friends while I'm pursuing my hobbies, whether that's sailing or
climbing. So there's a few bad operators on VHF FM, that's not true on U/VHF
SSB or on other bands? No one ever crashed a pile up on CW - right. No one
ever tuned up on air? That was a different time, right?
>
> And the best part is I'm being attacked because I had the gall to actually
> bring it up. Well excuse me. You go ahead and talk on your FM fun
> machine. I'll go do ham radio.
No, you being asked to tell us why U/VHF FM isn't ham. Then you brought up
part 97. It doesn't say anything about band or mode.
So is it you're saying FM isn't or can't be of service - Bull!
>
> Im not against the new ham. Even though I have seen ham radio being
pulled
> down lower and lower in technical and operational standards I don't blame
> the new ham. I blame the FCC and society in general. Maybe at the age of
> 56 I am just getting too old for this crap. The I want it all and I want
it
> now and I don't want to pay my dues sort of stuff is what I'm talking
about.
> Remember...ITS NOT A HOBBY. This is a good place to start to understand
Right, it's a service, and FM can't provide it. That's what you're implying.
Tell me that's not what you mean. Set the record straight. Tell us what you
mean. If you mean you don't care for FM or the general type of
communications on FM - then say that. Hell, I don't do code, it's not
conducive to the places and types of activities I use radio for. I don't
contest either. Does that mean I get to say "Contests aren't ham
radio" -Hell no, others like it and that's ok. I like Studebakers, you love
Edsels. does that make e ither one of us wrong. Not for an instant.
> what you are into....this Ham Radio stuff. Its not about feeling good.
Its
> not a glorified CB. etc. etc. IT IS A SERVICE.
yeah, there it is again -what does that have to do with FM? You said UHF/VHF
FM isn't ham, but now your changing to it's not a hobby it's a service.
You're trying to side step the issue. Stick to it, it's about FM not being
ham radio.
>
> I hold the ARRL directly responsible for pushing the image of hobby on Ham
> Radio. I hold the FCC and the ARRL responsible for this insane volunteer
> examiner program. I hold them both responsible for the incentive
licensing
> system that has all but destroyed this service. And I hold you new hams
> responsible for refusing to even learn about the traditions and the
history
> of this wonderful service. You should all hold your heads in shame. But
> most of all I hold you older hams responsible FOR NOT ELMERING these
people.
Yes, and I would guess you loved history, literature and grammer when you
were in high school. It's something that grows on you. If you get someone
involved and they stay interested, they will come around to enjoy and take
part in the tradition. You can't, however, force it on some one. You say:
>"I hold you older hams responsible FOR NOT ELMERING these people"
Is this how you elmer newcomers? By telling them you can't go out and talk
to your friends because it's not a hobby. You can only be a ham if you
provide a service. How many newcomers have YOU helped along. Oh, yes sorry,
you don't do FM. you made your point.
>
> Now if any of this bothers someone....good.
Doesn't bother me at all.
>
>
rich rookie KG6DOH
David Little
First off, I am 49 years young. I have been licensed nearly 11 years.
I used the reference "Hobby", and I have used the term "Service" in the
past. Sometimes I use both terms in the same post. That may be a technical
foul. I guess that the "service" end of Ham radio is so strong that the
Department of Homeland Security/Defense needs to scrap its plans to parallel
it (Ham Radio) with a separate agency. At least the ARRL did finally secure
around $181,000.00 (from the Dept. of Homeland Security/Defense) for the
"training" of members within it's ranks for emergency communications.
It is highly doubtful if I will outlive you. However, I know for a fact
that those that I have helped in the ranks of Amateur Radio will certainly
outlive me. My desire for self-actualization is obviously different from
yours.
David
KD4NUE
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgqvj$udf$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
DougSlug
to call CQ on VHF/UHF simplex.
Dan, what's the fixation with putting down the V/UHF amateur radio service
bands? Here you had a guy asking a legitimate question about good operating
practice, and you shit all over it. How does a newly licensed ham ever get
anywhere with that BS from OFs like you? A new ham has to start
somewhere...the FCC decided that V/UHF is where it should start. Help this
guy progress a little instead of trying to impress us with your experiences.
I suppose you were an expert from day one...well, we're not all that
talented. Be more tolerant.
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgave$59l$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
WA8ULX
>good 'ol times.
Do you mean giving away Hams Tickets for Memorizing a Bunch of Q&As that have
no meaning.
WA8ULX
Oh your so right, just kidding. What Technical Standards? I hope your not
refering to that Joke Written Test. Please explain what Technical Standards you
are speaking about.
WA8ULX
>and show me where the FCC calls it a hobby.
Dan Big mistake, first your asking them to do some research, second problem,
they have no IDEA what part 47 is.
Dan/W4NTI
from 6 land. Bet he operates on W6NUT.
Dan/W4NTI
"rich rookie" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:W3Ta9.14942$Ik.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
WA8ULX
>situations, and it was on UHF FM, and it probably couldn't have been done
>otherwise
Do you really think that, have you heard of Cell Phones, have you heard of
Commercial Comms, heck have you heard of CB, sorry Im sure your well up on CB
Dan/W4NTI
expect to receive any credibility.
Especially one that confirms what I said to begin with.
Part 97 does NOT call Amateur Radio a HOBBY.
Good deal on the emergency comm. Im proud of you.
Dan/W4NTI
"rich rookie" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:rLSa9.14940$Ik.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Dan/W4NTI
As for proceedures.....no one comes back anyway most of the time. So why
bother?
I used to build repeaters and maintain ham repeater systems. It all turned
into clicks and private chat channels.
Ever take a trip into Florida and try to get someone to talk to ya on 2FM?
Good Luck.
The best thing a new comer could do is NOT get on V/UHF FM. Then perhaps
he/she would run into someone willing and able to help them. See my point
yet?
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"DougSlug" <kc2...@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:BWTa9.32848$yl3.6...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Mike Yetsko
Just after I got my license, then upgrade, in 1981, a friend asked me if
I had seen the Bash books. I didn't know what they are, but I found
out. I was shocked. Here was the test, plain and simple. NOT the
test of today with a question pool that covers many more subjects with
many more possibilities.
Like I said, I didn't study back then, it was read and pass except for the
code. Today you DO have to study, and you don't know what part of
the question pool is going to be on the test, so you reasonably have to
know it all. No, not memorization. That was possible for a lot of people
back then with the Bash books and others. Not it's no longer a question
of knowing a pattern or memorizing, it's at least an understanding.
Something you seem to have trouble grasping. So there's no more
sense talking to you. You have your mind set and just won't listen.
Well, if you don't like VHF, then stay off of it. I don't think that many
people will miss you by the way you've acted and the statements
you've made. And frankly, I think that will be good for the hobby,
keeping people like you 'out of sight, out of mind'.
You know, people like you really amaze me... Anyone not at your
level you berate. What I find amazing is that I've seen that kind of
belligerent attitude from some of the 'old extras' about the 'new extras'.
But I checked out your call on QRZ, and I see you just converted to
extra. So, you now have to call all the people below you CBplussers?
I'll bet you're just the flower of your local HAM community!
Mike
WA8ULX
>those questions for a test?
>
So you admit all you did was Memorize
WA8ULX
>years ago, and those hams used a study guide to pass that test - a study
>guide with the answer to each question on the test.
How do you know did you take the Test
DGator
insterested in Ham radio anymore. If you don't have anything nice to
say then shut up.
George Andrews
Please try to keep track of what you are saying. Back in one of your earlier
statements you specifically indicated VHF FM. Not V/UHF FM. Just go back and
review your own postings.This just confirms that the modus operandi is that
of a troll. (Are you one of those HF operators that won't talk to people
unless they are running a kilowatt? And please, try to be specific. If your
trying to be a troll, try to get it right.Maybe you can get some credit for
being a polymorphic troll. Perhaps you might find relief in Paxil or
equivalent.
"Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
news:akgcrr$er$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> I was NOT bad mouthing the accomplishments and discoveries and attempts at
> same as you seem to think.
>
> V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
>
> What is so hard to comprehend about that comment?
>
> Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.
>
> 1. Kerchunk.....Kerchunk.....Kerchunk......this is KB4XYZ, monitoring.
>
> No reply....Kerchunk.......WB4XYZ this is K4XYZ you around Bernie???
> Kerchunk.....ya this is K4XYZ go ahead Fred.......yapps for a half
> hour....bitching and moaning about all the new guys not knowing how to
> operate.
>
*** Sounds like you spend a lot of time listening to the very thing you
dislike*****
> Kerchunk.......V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. It is a kids toy. It is for
> those too lazy to actually do and/or contribute something to the service.
>
> And yes I have done many of the things you have mentioned. In fact way
back
> in 1963 I was involved in a test to determine the best polarization,
> horizontal or vertical, to work through hilly NE Ohio and Western PA
> terrain. This with a homebrew 10 watt transmitter to various beams and
> quads built for this test.
>
> And yes I played with satellites and with hams in space. I was on OSCAR
in
> the 70s from Germany. I uplinked with a modified for CW Gonset 3 to a
> homebrew 4 element yagi. Downlinked with a 80meter dipole on ten meters.
> And it worked well.
>
> Ever hear of Owen Garriot? The FIRST HAM IN SPACE? I tried to work him,
> but didn't get through. But he had a heck of a fine signal describing to
> the world how the Mississippi valley looked from space...
>
> Ive even done SSTV before computers came into use. Not to mention real
> ATV...you know the fast scan stuff.
>
> And I actually heard my signal off the moon once. Using 4 10 element
cross
> yagi's homebrew. The TX was a pair of 4CX250b's in plumber delight
> construction. The rx was a 416b gold plated triode tube front end to a
> noisy 6J6 mixer stage. Receiving on a military surplus receiver. Just a
> ping or two. But I did it.
>
> V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
>
> Dan/W4NTI
>
> > "Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:ake6m5$qbq$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> > > Yeah aint it great Randy? Amazing how some folks have to bitch and
> moan
> > > about nothing of importance. Sorta like those guys on USENET that
> > complain
> > > about your spelling and ignore the question.
> > >
> > > Well Randy let me give you a reality check here. VHF FM IS NOT HAM
> RADIO.
WA8ULX
>the question pool is going to be on the test, so you reasonably have to
>know it all.
Oh I see you really have to know the Material on all subjects. Strange, then
why do so many of the So Called New Hams have no Idea how to figure the the
Length of a Dipole, or better yet how to make one.
>Not it's no longer a question
>of knowing a pattern or memorizing, it's at least an understanding.
Hum, thats strange, then maybe you can explain why so many of the New Hams tell
me that all they did was Memorize.
>But I checked out your call on QRZ, and I see you just converted to
>extra. So, you now have to call all the people below you CBplussers?
>
Yes I took the Phoney Baloney written test for EXTRA without studying and
passed, didnt miss 1 Question, also didnt look at some stupid Question Poll
either.
I also collected $250.00 from a Bunch of Stupid No-Coders who bet me I couldnt
pass the Test. By the way I upgraded from Advanced.
>I'll bet you're just the flower of your local HAM community!
>
YES your right on that one, but I cant help it they LOVE ME.
WA8ULX
>and jealousy that someone managed to get into the hobby with what you
>perceive as less effort than you put in.
Jealousy, you have to be Kidding. I really fell sorry for you guys. It most
fell terrible knowing the only way you could get a Ham Licenses was for the FCC
to lower there Standards, so you challenged people could get a License. Now all
you can do is try and Justify the Standards being Lowered so you also could be
a Ham.
Richard Schwaninger
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> Oh good grief......have it your way. Now I understand the problem....he is
> from 6 land. Bet he operates on W6NUT.
>
> Dan/W4NTI
Insults as a last effort. You still haven't explained, other than claiming FM is
toy land, why it's not ham radio. First you talk about it being for those who
can't hack it, then you change course and point to part 97, ham radio not being
a hobby.
Well, which is it?
Explain, put yourself in the clear. I'm listening.
If boat anchors and acres of antennas make it ham radio, ok for you.
Explain or stop complaining about FM not being ham.
rich rookie
Richard Schwaninger
WA8ULX wrote:
You have no idea where I've been. CB might have done it, if some would be
listening . Cell - no way, not even close.
rich rookie
Richard Schwaninger
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> Now Now 'rookie'....you can't respond to my question with a non answer and
> expect to receive any credibility.
> Especially one that confirms what I said to begin with.
>
> Part 97 does NOT call Amateur Radio a HOBBY.
But it's you who started saying FM isn't ham, then, when you can't answer, you
skirt the issue and point to it not being a hobby. I agreed, FCC doesn't call
it a hobby. But what is it that
rich rookie
DougSlug
restricts that through the license privileges associated with the
entry-level Technician license, while providing a path for increasing
exposure through the Tech Plus, then General, then Extra classes as he gains
experience. But if a newcomer is busy NOT being on the V/UHF bands--his
only choice at first, how does he ever bump into experienced hams who are
also busy staying off V/UHF? Don't you see the fault in your argument?
It's a Catch-22. The poor guy gets no on-the-air experience and can't meet
any "serious" hams. No-win situation.
Fortunately, this doesn't happen because most experienced hams don't feel
the way you do about V/UHF.
Richard Schwaninger
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
> Good point. But I still think V/UHF FM is glorified CB.
Now, we're on to something. You think (as in you don't like) V/UHF because it's
too similar to CB. OK - that's fine. That certainly doesn't mean it's not ham.
>
>
> As for proceedures.....no one comes back anyway most of the time. So why
> bother?
Some places, some repeater, I'm sure that's true. Disappointing. Where I'm at
not so true.
>
> I used to build repeaters and maintain ham repeater systems. It all turned
> into clicks and private chat channels.
And you blame that on it being FM?
>
>
> Ever take a trip into Florida and try to get someone to talk to ya on 2FM?
> Good Luck.
> The best thing a new comer could do is NOT get on V/UHF FM. Then perhaps
> he/she would run into someone willing and able to help them. See my point
> yet?
So what do YOU suggest some one start with? Again, you only say half. You put
the FM down but don't tell anyone what YOU think would be right, only what's
wrong.
rich rookie
Richard Schwaninger
WA8ULX wrote:
>
And what if I did memorize? But, we drift from the core question again.
Why is VHF/UHF not Ham? You can't keep changing the topic.
rich rookie
Richard Schwaninger
DougSlug wrote:
> But wait a minute...how does a newcomer get on anything but V/UHF? The FCC
> restricts that through the license privileges associated with the
> entry-level Technician license, while providing a path for increasing
> exposure through the Tech Plus, then General, then Extra classes as he gains
> experience. But if a newcomer is busy NOT being on the V/UHF bands--his
> only choice at first, how does he ever bump into experienced hams who are
> also busy staying off V/UHF? Don't you see the fault in your argument?
> It's a Catch-22. The poor guy gets no on-the-air experience and can't meet
> any "serious" hams. No-win situation.
But you see, that's what he wants. He wants only his definition of ham operators
to be included in his group. He won't admit it, maybe not even to himself. Where
I'm at there are plenty of old timers who embrace all aspects of ham radio. This
includes the guy who's been my elmer, so to say. He won't do SSB on HF, doesn't
like it one bit, but that's his preference. He's still on FM all the time. We
need more like him.
>
>
> Fortunately, this doesn't happen because most experienced hams don't feel
> the way you do about V/UHF.
How right you are.
rich
WA8ULX
>Why is VHF/UHF not Ham? You can't keep changing the topic.
>
>rich rookie
Well thank you for admitting to doing nothing more than Memorizing.
I didnt say VHF/UHF wasnt a Ham Band
WA8ULX
>the way you do about V/UHF.
>
Thats a shame
Richard Schwaninger
WA8ULX wrote:
Why don't you read exactly what I wrote. I didn't say I did memorize. I said
"What if".
Let's see:
You start with VHF/UHF FM is not ham,
then you spout about it not being a hobby,
then you insult hams with a 6 in their call sign,
then it's about what I did or didn't do for the test,
now it's that you didn't say it's not a ham band
Get it straight.
You still refuse to tell any one why you think FM isn't ham radio. That's
all that is relevant in this thread.
Either answer or shut up.
rich rookie
WA8ULX
>
>You start with VHF/UHF FM is not ham,
>then you spout about it not being a hobby,
>then you insult hams with a 6 in their call sign,
>then it's about what I did or didn't do for the test,
>now it's that you didn't say it's not a ham band
>
>Get it straight.
>
>You still refuse to tell any one why you think FM isn't ham radio. That's
>all that is relevant in this thread.
>
>Either answer or shut up.
>
>rich rookie
YOU GET IT STRAIGHT, THAT WASNT ME THAT SAID THAT
Dwight Stewart
> Ham radio is NOT A HOBBY. Take out your copy
> of part 97 (if you have one) and show me where
> the FCC calls it a hobby.
Take out a dictionary, look up the word "hobby," and then tell use how
this activity differs from the definition of that word. The FCC doesn't have
to call it a hobby - it is obvious.
Dwight Stewart (W5NET)
Dwight Stewart
>
> I'd still like him to tell everyone what,
> in his opinion, is ham radio. He's just
> said what it is not, that's too easy.
Perhaps you're expecting too much, Rich. His opinions seem fairly limited.
Dwight Stewart
>
> Ham radio is NOT A HOBBY. It is a SERVICE. (snip)
A "service" can be a hobby, Dan. Again, look at the dictionary definition
of the word "hobby" and explain how this activity differs from that
definition.
Dwight Stewart
> He was in orbit at the time Dwight. (snip)
So a person who talks from an unusual location is a ham, while one that
does the exact same thing from a less unusual location is not?
Dwight Stewart (W5NET)
> "Dwight Stewart" wrote:
>
>> "Dan/W4NTI" wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> Ever hear of Owen Garriot? The FIRST HAM IN SPACE?
>> I tried to work him, but didn't get through. But he
>> had a heck of a fine signal describing to the world
>> how the Mississippi valley looked from space...
>
>
> What, you mean Owen Garriot just talked about the
> things that interested him at the moment, like the
> KB4XYZ example you gave above? Did he order a pizza
> too? Why is Owen Garriot a ham for running his mouth,
> but others aren't when they do the same?
Dwight Stewart
>
> Dan Big mistake, first your asking them to do
> some research, second problem, they have no
> IDEA what part 47 is.
Perhaps not. But we do at least know that part 97, not part 47, governs
ham radio. Therefore, there is little need for us, as ham operators, to know
part 47.
Dwight Stewart
> Holy cow!! I agree with Dwight! And strongly!
It is shocking, isn't it? See what happens when we only view others by
their views on a single issue. Anyway, breath deeply. Our egos and pride
will survive this, Mike. ;)
Dwight Stewart
Nope, but I have discussed this with several generations of hams - those
with experience with various tests over the years. And I have seen copies of
the study guides commonly used over the years (in fact, you can find them on
eBay occasionally if you want to see for yourself). Based on that, I stand
by what I've said.
Dan/W4NTI
testing went to hell in a hand basket. It was the same as a cheat sheet.
However you can't sit there and say that all hams fit into the catagory of
being a 'Bash tested' person. Have you forgotten about those that tested
before Bash? And how about the many thousands that tested before the FCC?
Bash set the trend for the future demise of ham radio.
Dan/W4NTI
"Mike Yetsko" <j...@user.com> wrote in message
news:umo6kqb...@corp.supernews.com...
Dan/W4NTI
Without looking it up.
I agree....if the tests are so much harder then how come there is so much
ignorance on the radio?
Dan/W4NTI
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020827200347...@mb-ba.aol.com...
> >Take out your copy of part 97 (if you have one)
> >and show me where the FCC calls it a hobby.
>
Dan/W4NTI
again....but this time finish the sentence.
Dan/W4NTI
"Richard Schwaninger" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:3D6C4209...@alpineclimb.org...
Dan/W4NTI
comprehension.
I have already stated my opinion. You agree I am intitled to it. So quit
asking for an instant replay.
Dan/W4NTI
"Richard Schwaninger" <ric...@alpineclimb.org> wrote in message
news:3D6C40D5...@alpineclimb.org...
Dan/W4NTI
approved by some government flunky and passes all the tests required by a
federal committee then its not allowed to be published.
So, since the word 'hobby' is NOT included in part 97, then that means it
is not a hobby.
I learned this method of thinking by taking US Government Bureauspeak part
1.
Dan/W4NTI
"Dwight Stewart" <ste...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B99204FD.7720%ste...@sc.rr.com...
Dan/W4NTI
And NO Im not one of those HF operators that run a KW and won't answer
anyone less than s9. I require at least a s2 skooby doo.
Dan/W4NTI
"George Andrews" <gand...@ntplx.net> wrote in message
news:H3Xa9.15$2a....@news.ntplx.net...
> Dan Troll
>
> Please try to keep track of what you are saying. Back in one of your
earlier
> statements you specifically indicated VHF FM. Not V/UHF FM. Just go back
and
> review your own postings.This just confirms that the modus operandi is
that
> of a troll. (Are you one of those HF operators that won't talk to people
> unless they are running a kilowatt? And please, try to be specific. If
your
> trying to be a troll, try to get it right.Maybe you can get some credit
for
> being a polymorphic troll. Perhaps you might find relief in Paxil or
> equivalent.
> "Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:akgcrr$er$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> > I was NOT bad mouthing the accomplishments and discoveries and attempts
at
> > same as you seem to think.
> >
> > V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
> >
> > What is so hard to comprehend about that comment?
> >
> > Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.
> >
> > 1. Kerchunk.....Kerchunk.....Kerchunk......this is KB4XYZ, monitoring.
> >
> > No reply....Kerchunk.......WB4XYZ this is K4XYZ you around
Bernie???
> > Kerchunk.....ya this is K4XYZ go ahead Fred.......yapps for a half
> > hour....bitching and moaning about all the new guys not knowing how to
> > operate.
> >
> *** Sounds like you spend a lot of time listening to the very thing you
> dislike*****
> > Kerchunk.......V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO. It is a kids toy. It is for
> > those too lazy to actually do and/or contribute something to the
service.
> >
> > And yes I have done many of the things you have mentioned. In fact way
> back
> > in 1963 I was involved in a test to determine the best polarization,
> > horizontal or vertical, to work through hilly NE Ohio and Western PA
> > terrain. This with a homebrew 10 watt transmitter to various beams and
> > quads built for this test.
> >
> > And yes I played with satellites and with hams in space. I was on OSCAR
> in
> > the 70s from Germany. I uplinked with a modified for CW Gonset 3 to a
> > homebrew 4 element yagi. Downlinked with a 80meter dipole on ten
meters.
> > And it worked well.
> >
> > Ever hear of Owen Garriot? The FIRST HAM IN SPACE? I tried to work
him,
> > but didn't get through. But he had a heck of a fine signal describing
to
> > the world how the Mississippi valley looked from space...
> >
> > Ive even done SSTV before computers came into use. Not to mention real
> > ATV...you know the fast scan stuff.
> >
> > And I actually heard my signal off the moon once. Using 4 10 element
> cross
> > yagi's homebrew. The TX was a pair of 4CX250b's in plumber delight
> > construction. The rx was a 416b gold plated triode tube front end to a
> > noisy 6J6 mixer stage. Receiving on a military surplus receiver. Just
a
> > ping or two. But I did it.
> >
> > V/UHF FM IS NOT HAM RADIO.
> >
> > Dan/W4NTI
> >
> > "David Little" <dali...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
> > news:akeoh0$3lv$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> > > I am sure the folks behind SAREX, and all the Shuttle and ISS crew
will
> > > appreciate your stance. Not to forget the AMSAT offerings that have a
> FM
> > > mode on 2m. Funny. I have worked SAREX voice and packet, and
> digipeated
> > > through the ISS; worked Oscar 21 and tracked other LEO sats with both
a
> > > highly automated AZ/EL tracking circular polarized antenna system, and
a
> > > simple groundplane... and never got the first pizza out of the deal.
> And,
> > > by the way, cell phones weren't and option when some of these contacts
> > were
> > > being made. Maybe you may want to enlighten some of the folks who
> > > contributed to the book "Beyond Line of Sight" that was compiled for
> > print
> > > that their accomplishments were made for the benefit of future pizza
> > > offerings. Maybe you can educate the members of RSGB with your
> revelation
> > > about what is and isn't real Ham radio. One thing for sure, folks
with
> a
> > > view of Ham Radio such as you will assure that the hobby won't survive
> > much
> > > longer for future generations to enjoy..... I have worked my share of
> SSB
> > > weak signal, Meteor Scatter, SSB OSCAR sats also. Having said that,
I
> > > would never discourage anyone from trying to work the furthermost
> distance
> > > in what ever mode they have available. There is no better way to
learn
> > the
> > > strengths and weakness of a mode of operation than actual experience.
I
> > bet
> > > you never have tried to achieve a distance record on FM horizontal to
> > > horizontal either, have you? Isn't packet a FM mode? How about APRS?
> > What
> > > about other digital modes? Are you simply so intimidated by new
> > technology
> > > that you have to try to discourage others from learning more than you
> know
> > > about it? Please give these questions some thought before you
embarrass
> > > yourself again.... If you ever should be unfortunate enough to get
> > yourself
> > > scattered across a few miles of highway in an accident, please hope
that
> > the
> > > EMS or Highway Safety personnel aren't involved in a pissing contest
> > about
> > > the merits of FM communications above 30 MHz. It may affect your
> ability
> > to
> > > make rash statements in the future.
> > >
> > > David
> > > KD4NUE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Dan/W4NTI" <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ake6m5$qbq$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> > > > Yeah aint it great Randy? Amazing how some folks have to bitch and
> > moan
> > > > about nothing of importance. Sorta like those guys on USENET that
> > > complain
> > > > about your spelling and ignore the question.
> > > >
> > > > Well Randy let me give you a reality check here. VHF FM IS NOT HAM
> > RADIO.
> > > > It is a little play toy for those that can't hack it in real ham
> stuff.
> > > You
> > > > know the stuff like HF, weak signal VHF/UHF, Meteor Scatter, EME,
> etc.
> > > >
> > > > Get on there and enjoy as much of it as you can stand. Then leave
it
> to
> > > > those that want to order a pizza without paying for a phone call.
> > > >
> > > > Now I'll hear from the emergency guys/gals. Been there done that.
> The
> > > > first thing to go in a real emergency is the high hilltop antenna's
> with
> > > the
> > > > 'machines' tied to them.
> > > >
> > > > Dan/W4NTI
> > > >
> > > > "Randy A. Hefner" <randy_NO_S...@frs-usa.com> wrote in
message
> > > > news:b03b87e2.02082...@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Bob M." <n...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<E_ha9.27003>
> Exactly.
> > So
> > > > why do it? I'm one of those that don't respond to those who say
> > > > > > "<call> monitoring" because I could care less if they're
> monitoring
> > or
> > > > not.
> > > > > > Answering just encourages such behavior in the future. Frankly
it
> > has
> > > > > > nothing to do with being friends or not. If you want to talk,
say
> > so!
> > > > If
> > > > > > you want to monitor, don't say anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow! It is friendly people like you that makes the amateur radio
> > > > > service such a joy!
> > > > >
> > > > > Randy
> > > > > KD4OWL
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Dan/W4NTI
Exam. Call it "How to operate your station". Nah....too obvious, and
practical. Lets talk about phase distortion of a microwave signal while
bouncing off the plate in your daddy's head. Much much more practical.
You know Pat...I never have understood what was wrong with calling CQ on a
repeater in the first place.
Dan/W4NTI
"VE2VFD Pat" <ve2...@remove.hotmail.this.com.now> wrote in message
news:3d6d2525...@news1.qc.sympatico.ca...
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:05:02 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
> <rmo...@cetlink.net> wrote:
>
> >One other thing I make it a practice to do is
> >to key the mic for a second or two before calling. This allows the hams
> >receivers that may be scanning to stop and if the subaudio tones are
being
> >used it will give them time to lock up and activate the receivers.
>
> That practice is pretty close to what we teach at the Fire College on
> radio usage. I am one of the trainers who administers the final exam
> for the provincial officers course. Exam is 100% practical and is
> basically a full incident command post simulation (full live people
> interaction + multimedia + radio comms, as real as it gets w/o
> actually burning down a large building for each student :) ).
>
> For some students, this exam is pretty traumatic. Many get all worked
> up and nervous as it's a pass/fail situation which will affect their
> carreer. Like most high stress situations, they are trying so hard to
> remember the exam material that they forget simple things... like how
> to talk in a radio :)
>
> The usual "reminder" we give on how to speak into a radio is pretty
> simple: press PTT, breathe in, bring up radio to face, talk, breathe
> out, let go PTT". With this simple routine there is no more start or
> finish of radio message cut off (thats happens a LOT in real life), no
> more out of breath or nervous panting in radio and basically a much
> clearer message delivered.
>
> Generally I've found most hams to be pretty well disciplined in "ptt
> etiquette". On the other hand, fellow firefighters or cops, EMS and
> even utility services people often need to be reminded a simple thing
> called "how to press a PTT" :)
>
> As for calling CQ on V/UHF, well... if it's a simplex comm, why not?
> It's not hurting anyone, not improper usage or bad etiquette either.
>
> My 2 cents worth :)
>
> ve2vfd - Pat
>
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"WA8ULX" <wa8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020827231601...@mb-md.aol.com...
> >Sorry, the only point that I see coming across is elitism, bitterness
> >and jealousy that someone managed to get into the hobby with what you
> >perceive as less effort than you put in.
>
> Jealousy, you have to be Kidding. I really fell sorry for you guys. It
most
> fell terrible knowing the only way you could get a Ham Licenses was for
the FCC
> to lower there Standards, so you challenged people could get a License.
Now all
> you can do is try and Justify the Standards being Lowered so you also
could be
> a Ham.
Dan/W4NTI
I'm glad you had such wonderful experiences while traveling around the lower
48 and parts of Europe.
I to have traveled in those area's. And you know what Florida is STILL the
worst place to try and work someone on a 2 meter repeater.
Dan/W4NTI
"VE2VFD Pat" <ve2...@remove.hotmail.this.com.now> wrote in message
news:3d6c2027...@news1.qc.sympatico.ca...
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:20:19 -0500, "Dan/W4NTI"
> <w4...@mindspringnospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Good point. But I still think V/UHF FM is glorified CB.
>
> Then don't use those bands, but leave those who like them alone.
>
> >I used to build repeaters and maintain ham repeater systems. It all
turned
> >into clicks and private chat channels.
>
> And a bunch of elitist hams who think HF is the only way to go isn't a
> clique?
>
> >Ever take a trip into Florida and try to get someone to talk to ya on
2FM?
>
> Nope, but I've traveled to London, Liverpool, Nottingham, and
> roadtrips to Toronto, NYC, Buffalo, most of the Adirondacks, and down
> to Pittsburg and all along the way I've enjoyed very pleasant
> conversation on 2M with total strangers. Never had anyone be rude to
> me, never had any of this "rude CB crowd". Heck I've even had good
> samaritan ham call in the Rangers to rescue a lost hiker on the Tupper
> Lake 2M repeater in the Adirondacks. 110% profesionalism all the way.
>
> >The best thing a new comer could do is NOT get on V/UHF FM. Then perhaps
> >he/she would run into someone willing and able to help them. See my
point
> >yet?
>
> Sorry, the only point that I see coming across is elitism, bitterness
> and jealousy that someone managed to get into the hobby with what you
> perceive as less effort than you put in.
>
> No wonder this is a dying hobby... if this attitude is what newbies
> have to deal with I can see why they aren't joining the hobby in
> droves...
>
> ve2vfd - Pat
>
> ps: you did notice I used the word HOBBY often up there? It is only a
> *hobby* folks, it's supposed to be enjoyable for all.
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
"Dwight Stewart" <ste...@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B9920706.7722%ste...@sc.rr.com...
Dan/W4NTI
>
>
> Dan/W4NTI wrote:
>
> > Good point. But I still think V/UHF FM is glorified CB.
>
> Now, we're on to something. You think (as in you don't like) V/UHF because
it's
> too similar to CB. OK - that's fine. That certainly doesn't mean it's not
ham.
V/UHF FM. Not all activity on V/UHF is CBish. Just repeaters.
>
>
> >
> >
> > As for proceedures.....no one comes back anyway most of the time. So
why
> > bother?
>
> Some places, some repeater, I'm sure that's true. Disappointing. Where I'm
at
> not so true.
>
> >
> > I used to build repeaters and maintain ham repeater systems. It all
turned
> > into clicks and private chat channels.
>
> And you blame that on it being FM?
Yes I certainly do. And why? Because of the channelized operation. It
turns it into a 'good ole boys club'. Like what you hear on 75 meters day
in day out.
It keeps people out of their clique. It leads to the sort of thing that
turns me off on V/UHF FM. Hang in there a while you will see.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ever take a trip into Florida and try to get someone to talk to ya on
2FM?
> > Good Luck.
>
> > The best thing a new comer could do is NOT get on V/UHF FM. Then
perhaps
> > he/she would run into someone willing and able to help them. See my
point
> > yet?
>
> So what do YOU suggest some one start with? Again, you only say half. You
put
> the FM down but don't tell anyone what YOU think would be right, only
what's
> wrong.
>
> rich rookie
>
>
>
>
I suggest a return to the roots of ham radio. I propose the ellimination of
the Technician class license totally. No grandfathering or anything. Up or
Out.
I propose we return to Novice for 1 year, non renewable. CW ONLY. HF ONLY.
No ten phone.
Up or Out.
I propose returning to logging your contacts
I propose totally elliminating the Extra class license to get rid of all
those with their hat size too big for their britches.
I propose the return to CW testing to weed out the trash that has
infiltrated ham radio.
I propose the retesting of anyone that has not gone before the FCC. And
make the test at a FCC office.
I propose we make keeping a license contingent on actual on the air time.
Boy I have got a bunch worked up now dont I???
Hey Old Timers...any of this sound familiar?
And I propose that all those that are sitting there with their tongue
hanging out...get a life.......how's it go???
ITS JUST A HOBBY, RIGHT?
Dan/W4NTI
Dan/W4NTI
stagnant pool of operators. Either too lazy, or unable , or unwilling to
upgrade.
The FCC mandadated this path in their ignorance of ham radio. They have
relagated the newcomer to the waste land of V/UHF FM. They have
intentionally (apparantly) seperated into groups ham operators.
Very few ACTIVE HF operators play on the repeaters. And if they do only
talk to each other about things that interest them.
How many times have you heard a newcomer ask a OT a question about HF? Very
few. All I hear around here is RACES/ARES Nets and Pizza orders on the auto
patch.
At least when we had a NOVICE entry point into the service it provided a way
for most everyone to meet.
I remember meeting lots and lots of older hams when I was struggling to get
past 5wpm on 40cw. They helped me a lot. What do you have now for the
newcomer? Right.
I have come to the conclusion that it is a big plot by the government to
destroy ham radio from within. They want us off V/UHF so they can sell it
off. So they make it so easy to get on HF that they have basically cleaned
out V/UHF. They will use that to show we don't use the frequencies. If we
end up with a sliver on V/UHF we will be lucky.
They dumped all these newguys on HF. To crowd up the bands even more.
Cause more fighting and spread more hate. So far that hasn't worked. But
when these new elite 'extras' start firing up and showing off their new KW's
and beams with their head up their butt because all they ever did was
kerchunk a repeater.....its gonna be fun.
Going back to one of my original statements...I hold the FCC and the ARRL
responsible for the demise of Amateur Radio.
Go out and buy a book from the ARRL. Called 200 meters and down. Thats Ham
Radio. Thats the real traditions. Not what we have now.
But there is hope. Get off of the Pizza machines and join the real ham
radio operators. Get off of channalized FM. Thats not ham radio. Thats CB
with no Swang.
Dan/W4NTI
"DougSlug" <kc2...@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:GwXa9.34295$yl3.7...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> But wait a minute...how does a newcomer get on anything but V/UHF? The
FCC
> restricts that through the license privileges associated with the
> entry-level Technician license, while providing a path for increasing
> exposure through the Tech Plus, then General, then Extra classes as he
gains
> experience. But if a newcomer is busy NOT being on the V/UHF bands--his
> only choice at first, how does he ever bump into experienced hams who are
> also busy staying off V/UHF? Don't you see the fault in your argument?
> It's a Catch-22. The poor guy gets no on-the-air experience and can't
meet
> any "serious" hams. No-win situation.
>
> Fortunately, this doesn't happen because most experienced hams don't feel
> the way you do about V/UHF.
>
>
KC8PMX
> most of all I hold you older hams responsible FOR NOT ELMERING these
people.
>
BINGO! If there is any possible way to INFLUENCE prospective or new
licensee's, it is through the concept of elmering!!!!!! Trying to correct
behavior "after-the-fact" is considerable harder than if it was taught right
in the first place.
I can read and read and read any textbook out there and maybe able to quote
a variety of stuff from whatever was in that particular text, but a good
instructor or elmer definitely helps to put it "all together." I can look
back at any prior learning experience situations where one option was self
teaching and the other was with a good teacher/elmer, and the scores of
measurement of sucess definitely was up 10-20% or more with the
teacher/elemer over self-teaching.
Around here you cannot find an elmer even if you paid the person to help you
learn.... The elmering spirit is dead and buried around here.....
--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF/MFR
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