Clapton vs. May?
Jens Gabriels
i have this question.
I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
really
like Brian May.
But why?
Does anybody have any comment on this?
Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another. First of
all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As much
as professional players.
And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
And by the way, Brian May's sound is very distinctive and incredibly
melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's mastership.
Everybody has own qualities.
Steve Robinson
news:3d496fa4$0$210$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
Does he object to Brian personally, or to Brian's playing? I just
wondered...
Ernest T Bass
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
>
Maybe he doesn't like him as a person.
howldog
<jen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi
>
>i have this question.
>
>I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
>really
>like Brian May.
>But why?
May still uses the old curly guitar cords and Clapton thinks those are
silly. they remind him too much of the perm he had in his Cream days.
J.P.
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
I have no idea. I didn't even know that Clapton didn't like Brian May. I
wasn't aware that any of the guitarists of that era didn't like and respect
Brian. I know that Jeff Beck does, and I believe Jimmy Page does, as well.
Personally, Brian May is my favorite guitarist. I think that he is one of
the main reasons I started playing guitar. Clapton is a wonderful guitarist
as well. Both men have molded completely different styles, and no one
sounds like Clapton and May except Clapton and May. I prefer May's playing,
but I don't have much (if any) criticism for Clapton.
Jdavyd Williams
"howldog" <how...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> May still uses the old curly guitar cords and Clapton thinks those are
> silly. they remind him too much of the perm he had in his Cream days.
>
LOL
TAPKAE
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
Cuz May runs rings around him, and is a far more imaginative due with the
instrument?
Or maybe Crapton had a jones for being in the (possibly enviable) position
of standing behind Freddie on stage and taking in the sights. Who knows.
May IS a far more imaginative dude on guitar.
e
http://tapkae.com
http://hogheavenmedia.com
Cooler than sh*t!
Steve Robinson
news:eatiku09fet2ge426...@4ax.com...
>
> May still uses the old curly guitar cords
What's the fingering for a curly chord?
Jens Gabriels
JP is right i think.
I've seen an interview where Jeff Beck says: he's a wonderful guitarist.
People are playing his licks. they should play mine ! (laughs).
"J.P." <nospam-jp...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:ukivf4c...@corp.supernews.com...
D.G. Devin
>Hi
>
>i have this question.
>
>I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
doesn't
>really
>like Brian May.
>But why?
Does the author quote Clapton, saying something like, "I think Brian May is
a horrible person who can't paly guitar worth a damn?" Because anything
other than a quotation is the writer's interpretation, possibly even a
fabrication. If we believed everything we read about one rock star or
another, damn, we'd go nuts. And there are some, like Keith Richards, who
deliverately fuel this process by providing what passes as journalists these
days with lots of inflammatory juicy quotations they can run with, he seems
to get a real kick out of it.
Big Mike
was quoted talking about a guitarists who could play circles around him
named Brian May. I recall it being a very complimentary statement. Cya, Big
Mike
"D.G. Devin" <DGD...@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:Tzh29.14487$pg2.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
John
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>>I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
>really like Brian May.
>But why?
>
>>Does anybody have any comment on this?
>
>EC likes blues. There's probably quite a number of guitarists he doesn't care
>for. If you can name a guitarist you don't like then you're just like Clapton.
Yeah I saw someone asking him what he thought of Eddie Van Halen years
ago , and he said "Its more like acrobatics or gymnastics, isnt it?"
A mild way of putting him down. It stuck in my mind since Van Halen
has has said he really worshipped Clapton. Clapton seemed to only
praise the old blues players and SRV. Thats his thing.
¤ Alias
Eric's worst nightmare was Eddie Van Halen.
And Eddie was Eric's biggest fan.
WTF was Eric *supposed* to say?
When other players start hating you,
you know you're getting good.
Daniel Dreibelbis
"Jens Gabriels" <jen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
Clapton has really had only one derogatory thing to say about Brian,
and that was the track "Blues Breaker" that Brian had written and
recorded with Eddie Van Halen on the _Star Fleet Project_ EP, which they
had dedicated to EC. Eric said that, as blues, that was the most
horrible thing he had ever heard . IIRC, he did iterate that he thought
Brian was very talented at what he does in the same interview, which I
think he did with _Guitarist_ in the mid-nineties.
Of course, a few months ago Brian and Eric were sharing the same
stage during the Queen's Party At The Palace. They were playing side by
side during Paul McCartney's finale of "All You Need Is Love", and both
were grinning from ear to ear :)
--
Dan Dreibelbis, Guitar Nerd - Better Living Through Home Recording
http://www.mp3.com/dan_dreibelbis
Jimmy Kukla
>Yeah I saw someone asking him what he thought of Eddie Van Halen years
>ago , and he said "Its more like acrobatics or gymnastics, isnt it?"
>A mild way of putting him down.
More like a blatant way of putting a foot in his own mouth. Check out
all the songs Eric has written. Layla, a few cream tunes, and not much
else. Compare Van Halen's contribution to modern music. It's like
comparing Elton John to Liberace.
Jimmy Kukla
>You must be *very* young to not know how much Clapton contributed to music.
Yawn. I saw Cream at the Fillmore.
>Before EC there was no 'virtuosity' in rock.
Eric Clapton was hardly a virtuoso.
>Lead guitar was an afterthought.
Have you heard of a guy named Chuck Berry?
>Blues was a ghetto and BB KIng couldn't get arrested.
You sound like someone who spends a lot of time in front of the TV.
Try to catch the PBS documentary on American Roots Music. Hopefully
it won't be played at the same time as cartoons or whatever kids your
age are watching these day.
>Clapton spawned generations of blues and rock guitarists (including EVH).
He did a decent job covering a lot of music. He influenced a lot of
white blues guitar players.
> Understand, I think
>EVH is/was great but the depth and variety of his music doesn't touch Clapton.
That's a common misconception. Try to give a little more thought to
your reply.
Dave Arthur
I do think that Clapton is overrated, albeit influential.
As a vocalist and composer, I admire him much more than as a guitarist.
"Jens Gabriels" <jen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d496fa4$0$210$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
Tanaleaf9
>
>What's the fingering for a curly chord?
A curly cord is a diminished moe chord. Similar to an augmented larry or a
suspended shemp.
Gerd Klaassen
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
> Does anybody have any comment on this?
I've read just the opposite - that EC likes the way May plays with the feedback/sustain...
> Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another. First of
> all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As much
> as professional players.
> And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
Opinions, too...
Gerd
howldog
>
>A curly cord is a diminished moe chord.
no, thats demented moe.
> Similar to an augmented larry
you mean anguished larry
or a
>suspended shemp.
shemp sucked.
howldog
>>EC likes blues. There's probably quite a number of guitarists he doesn't care
>>for. If you can name a guitarist you don't like then you're just like Clapton.
>
>Yeah I saw someone asking him what he thought of Eddie Van Halen years
>ago , and he said "Its more like acrobatics or gymnastics, isnt it?"
quite amusing.
once Frank Zappa called it "lick spewage". Pretty funny, and slightly
hypocritical, coming for a guy who was no stranger to "lick spewage"
himself. I saw him do about a 15 minute guitar lead on "Black Napkins"
once in Tampa. And this was the guy that released how many albums
entitled "shut up and play yer guitar"?
howldog
>I agree with others who say Clapton really hasnt done much since
>Layla. But at least hes still a class act. Just holding on to some
>dignity and not turning into a paunchy , gross embarrassment who just
>tarnishes their past fame is a feat for rock artists.
in his defense, here's a Clapton story I heard that may or may not be
true. This could be all lies but i found it sort of funny.
After his son died, Clapton wanted to sort of retreat from the world
and he bought a large house, in a very quiet and far removed small
English countryside town. He planned to just sort of hang around for
awhile and not have anyone bother him, I guess. He used a fake name
for the entire buying process and went to great lengths to hide his
identity.
Anyway, the Vicar heard that somebody had bought the big house and he
went over to introduce himself. Clapton answered the door and they had
a nice chat. Incredibly the Vicar didnt recognize Clapton, had no idea
who he was. The vicar saw a Strat on a stand in the hall and he said,
I'm a bit of a guitar player, and we have a musical service Sunday
mornings, we could use another player, why dont you come around for
tea sometime.
For some reason clapton agrees and takes a guitar over to the Vicars
and they start playing, just the two of them, just jamming. Clapton
starts in with some famous lick or song that he wrote, and the Vicar
stopped him and said, "thats not how Clapton plays it".
>
howldog
<dre...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Clapton has really had only one derogatory thing to say about Brian,
>and that was the track "Blues Breaker" that Brian had written and
>recorded with Eddie Van Halen on the _Star Fleet Project_ EP, which they
>had dedicated to EC. Eric said that, as blues, that was the most
>horrible thing he had ever heard .
as far as "blues" go, certainly as far as "pure blues", yeah, it
was.... well it didnt surprise me that Clapton wouldnt like it.
Basically it sounded like May and Van Halen trying to head cut each
other.
Jeremy Leroyer
> true. This could be all lies but i found it sort of funny.
This is very certainly a urban legend with some shred of truth. Snopes.com
deals with an almost identical story:
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/clapton.htm
howldog
well there you go. I wondered if it was bullshit, it almost sounded
like a vaudeville routine.
Parker
complimentary towards other guitarists and certainly humble about his own
abilities.
Parker
"Big Mike " <huff...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:tei29.80376$ND5.6...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Parker
Grammies, sound tracks, platinum albums, influence on countless musicians,
bringing countless almost forgotten blues players and new young talent to
the attention of millions. And, the respect he receives from countless
musicians from all genres.
Parker
"Jimmy Kukla" <st...@spam.now> wrote in message
news:oq2kkuo1nrc5c84si...@4ax.com...
Parker
guitarists. Eric has certainly made his mark in rock and more so for blues.
He certainly has the right to say an attempted blues song from May and EVH
is not good as far as blues songs go. I believe, as you mentioned, he is
complimentary of both guitarists for the rock work.
Parker
"Daniel Dreibelbis" <dre...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:dreibel-74A4BF...@news21.bellnet.ca...
Bernard M. Piller
> ??? Why not compare Clapton's entire body of work spanning 40 years? His
> Grammies, sound tracks, platinum albums, influence on countless musicians,
> bringing countless almost forgotten blues players and new young talent to
> the attention of millions. And, the respect he receives from countless
> musicians from all genres.
Well said.
I am no huge fan of Clapton but he does play a decent guitar and he
brought the blues guitar over into modern music. He wrote some
commercially succesful hits but this does not mather to me (to the
contrary, I hear him on the radio too often).
My biggest guitar hero is EVH, because of his sheer playing and musical
abilities. As far as sound goes, I am more into SRV, Bonnie Raitt,
Allman Brothers, ... well the SOUTH!
Bernard
Mike C.
first person to tell you that would be Eddie.
Clapton was hardly a virtuoso? I suppose Hendrix shared your view about
this?
"Jimmy Kukla" <st...@spam.now> wrote in message
news:vatkkuopgc8qtftr6...@4ax.com...
Mike C.
play rings around me, they couldn't play a blues to save their lives. I
never liked the way Clapton worded it, but he *is* human, and I'm sure he'd
like to have rephrased his quote. He was right, though, that blues track was
horrible.
"Parker" <terry...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:nHx29.126032$uh7.20655@sccrnsc03...
Peter Pearson
says...
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
>
> all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As much
> as professional players.
> And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
> melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's mastership.
>
> Everybody has own qualities.
At the Jubilee concert in London back in June, they were both playing
together on several songs, and in the latter few they were grinning at each
other, so I doubt this is true.
It's like the story that Paul McCartney fell out with Clapton due to him
"nicking" Patti Harrison from George - McCartney himself said it's rubbish.
Wonderful tonight was written about Patti on the night they both went to a
Buddy Holly tribute evening hosted by McCartney...
Cheers,
Peter Pearson
TAPKAE
LOL
Suspended shemp...
e
http://tapkae.com
http://hogheavenmedia.com
Cooler than sh*t!
TAPKAE
But Zappa took music as a whole into places most other cats won't ever go,
and did it for 35 years. And there are plenty of posthumous albums in the
works for a long time to come, which is a tuff act to follow.
Dan Stanley
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:wXy29.261670$uw.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> Exactly. I used to own that vinyl, and although both of those guys could
> play rings around me, they couldn't play a blues to save their lives. I
> never liked the way Clapton worded it,
Better to say you don't like how the source quoted it.
Clapton may have said, "Brian May? Great fella, lotsa fun to hang out with,
wish I saw him around more often...I should give him a ring and invite him
and the missus over for dinner. But, I didn't really like Brian May on that
particular track."
But the reporter writes:
"Clapton doesn't like Brian May"
....and then it gets perpetuated.
Dan
Paul Booth Johnson
John wrote:
I can't remember what video it was I saw - Clapton almost came right out and total
proclaimed he was the "End all End" of acts to play LA in the Hendrix era hey day.
I almost laughed. Never did understand this "Clapton is God" stuff myself. Of
course I grew up in Northern Minnesota and had braces on my teeth - unlike most
Brits..
Clapton is no doubt about it totaly great on guitar. For what he does, and so is
May - for what HE does. This parsnickity nit picking about ones playing is wasting
energy in my mind.
--
-Paul Booth Johnson
"My Heroes Have Always Been Highways" - Tom T. Hall
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/314/paul_booth_johnson.html
http://www.frontiernet.net/~pj2/index.html
--
Steve2000indeja
>complimentary towards other guitarists and certainly humble about his own
>abilities.
>
>Parker
Finally, about a hundred posts in, someone asks for a source on this
quote...after dozens of the bash/unbash EC posts that always pop up whenever
his name shows up on a thread. Way to go Parker!
Just because something is 'in print' doesn't mean it's in context, accurate or
even true.
----
I do remember some flap about EC being a bit uncomplimentary about EVH back in
the 80s...and IIRC correctly he later apologized, took it 'back' along with
some other unpopular unrelated comments he'd made about English politics (i
think).
His reason?- when EC allegedly said some of the stuff he was in the midst of
one of his last long bouts with the bottle. Smashed out of his mind and didn't
even remember doing it. He didn't offer this stuff up as an excuse, iirc.
Clapton was being honest, took responsiblity for it and offered it up apologies
-where warranted- as a way of making some amends.
I think he cleaned up for good (or at least for the last 10-12 years, shortly
afterwards.
The quick jump-for any reason, on any thread- to Clapton bashing here never
ceases to amaze me. Watching a way long 'Clapton vs May' thread war/bashfest
spring from very little... it boggles the mind. Especially when there are so
many instances where the 2 guys behave like the gentlemen and artists they are.
But I am also continually, pleasantly amazed to see all the positive EC replies
from folks who see and understand the bigger picture of Eric Clapton's career
work and role in Rock-as it he helped create it. These posts/posters coming
back to educate (or debate) the ever-ready bashers is heatening.
Uh, I may have missed it. Was there ever a source (author and place of
publicaton-magazine name or book title or whatever) cited?
could be much ado about very little, as a lot of the EC bashing seems to be...
imo
Steve
Blackface DT
Jens Gabriels wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
>
> Does anybody have any comment on this?
> Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another. First of
> all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As much
> as professional players.
> And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
> And by the way, Brian May's sound is very distinctive and incredibly
> melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's mastership.
>
> Everybody has own qualities.
And everyone has their own opinions. If Clapton doesn't care for May,
he doesn't have to. Why worry about it?
Besides, where is it written that professional musicians are supposed to
behave well?
DT
FRK
> of standing behind Freddie on stage and taking in the sights. Who knows.
>
Do you really mean to call him "CRAPTON"??????
Mike Murphy
Mike C. <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:wXy29.261670$uw.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> play rings around me, they couldn't play a blues to save their lives. I
> never liked the way Clapton worded it, but he *is* human, and I'm sure
he'd
> like to have rephrased his quote. He was right, though, that blues track
was
> horrible.
Yes- this is really the point- the track was a jam, and a very uninspired
one at that, IMHO. I thought it was pure crap and was surprised that it
ever saw the light of day. Both May and Van Halen would probably be
embarrassed about this track today. If Clapton criticized this track, I can
see why. VH really stunk badly on this track, IMHO.
Mike
Smak!
>
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
>
> Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another. First of
> all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As much
> as professional players.
> And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
> And by the way, Brian May's sound is very distinctive and incredibly
> melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's mastership.
>
> Everybody has own qualities.
About 10 years ago there was a Clapton interview in a guitar mag where
he talks about a record Brian May put outt called "Star Fleet" that also
had EVH playing on it.. They played a few pretty cool songs and there
was also a "blues jam" dedicated to Clapton.. In the interview Clapton
said the song and the playing was terrible. (I don't remember the exact
quote..) From that point on I thought Clapton was a prick shithead. He
was probably drunk when he said it..
Outt..
Jeff.
Florentine Baghead
<975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
>Yes- this is really the point- the track was a jam, and a very uninspired
>one at that, IMHO. I thought it was pure crap and was surprised that it
>ever saw the light of day. Both May and Van Halen would probably be
>embarrassed about this track today. If Clapton criticized this track, I can
>see why. VH really stunk badly on this track, IMHO.
Clapton is in no position to bag on anyone for releasing an uninspired
blues jam. He's built his career on them.
Smak!
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> >In the interview Clapton said the song and the playing was terrible. (I don't
> remember the exact quote..) From that point on I thought Clapton was a prick
> shithead. He was probably drunk when he said it..
>
I probably listened to it one time.. If he didn't like it Clapton
shouldn't have said anything about it at all, because he sounded like a
prick.
Outt..
Jeff
ts duke
"Smak!" <smak...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3D4C4135...@comcast.net...
C'mon, look at the way people express oppinions about other guitar players
here!
For what it's worth, I prefer a negative, but honest oppinion, than somebody
saying 'oh, it's really great', just to be nice.
Mike C.
Funny, you wouldn't be here, posting about other guitarists if it wasn't for
Clapton's "uninspired" blues jams. I haven't heard many blues jams by
Clapton that weren't inspired, if not inspiring. I suppose those other guys
with the Bluesbreakers, and with Cream were just as uninspired, too?
Do you realize that the blues wouldn't be at all popular today if it wasn't
for Clapton? Did you know that Hendrix asked Chas Chandler to "introduce me
to Eric" once he got to England? Did you realize that Van Halen *and* Brian
May both idolized Clapton in their guitar development years?
Maybe Clapton was a little out of line with the way he came across in this
interview. I owned the "Starfleet Project" album(back in the vinyl days),
and this track was seriously disappointing.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
news:cfdokuc9eh63s5v7m...@4ax.com...
Florentine Baghead
wrote:
>I haven't heard many blues jams by
>Clapton that weren't inspired, if not inspiring.
Since you haven't heard many, you've obviously heard some that weren't
inspired. Therefore, for all your rambling, you basically agree with
me.
Mike C.
Unfortunately, I can't say it slowly here for you, as we're on the internet.
Haven't heard many tends to mean *very few*. Of all the blues jams by Eric
Clapton that I've heard, *very few* have been uninspired. Seeing that
everyone has bad nights, I would expect one once in a while. However, that
seems light years(Oops, sorry, the second language thing), that seems to be
very different than "basing his whole career on" these jams.
In case you need more clarification, "basically agreeing" with you would
mean that we have the same beliefs. Seeing that I don't believe in trolling
the newsgroups with false statements to start arguments, that would show you
and I to have opposite beliefs. If you'd like to get more official
definitions, you could check at dictionary.com for the definitions of
"agree" and "disagree."
When you're a little clearer on the history of E.C., and possibly of blues
and rock & roll, feel free to get back to me.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
news:k9qokuok81bdkqenv...@4ax.com...
FRK
In an OZ rockmagazine back in the crazyies I heard
that Crampton had Qwite a hard time
taking a dispensed, augmented dim5. But is it
true that "sunshine of your love" is recorded with
Eric in the hairdryer?
Florentine Baghead
wrote:
>When you're a little clearer on the history of E.C., and possibly of blues
>and rock & roll, feel free to get back to me.
You need to familiarize yourself with many of the things that EC has
said about his own career.
JungleJim
But I am also continually, pleasantly amazed to see all the positive
EC replies
from folks who see and understand the bigger picture of Eric Clapton's
career
work and role in Rock-as it he helped create it.
*yawns*
1. Yep, let me get out "461 Ocean Blvd" That one is full of amazing
guitar work.
2. Then I'll play "There's One in Every Crowd", a CD that is chock
full of blistering--you hear me? I say BLISTERING--solos.
3. So too is "No Reason to Cry". Has ANYONE ever figured out how the
hell Clapton plays those notes on "Carnival"?
4. I'll follow that with his 1977 magnum opus, "Slowhand". I think I
nearly got the "Lay Down Sally" tone nailed down!
5. How about that aptly titled "Backless"? Surely Clapton lives up to
his God moniker on this one!
6. And then, those fabulous 80s. Has anyone ever sounded quite like a
drunken has-been as Clapton does on "Further on up the Road" on "Just
one Night"? Or played drivel quite so honestly as the Master does on
"Another Ticket"?
7. Just listen to "Behind the Sun". I dare you, I DOUBLE dare you, to
name a better guitarist than Clapton.
8. August, Journeyman, unplugged, Pilgrim! Every single one of them, a
rock classic, all of them helped shape rock music as we know it.
9. The last decent guitar job Clapton did was the Layla album in
1970. His only success with a Strat!
10. Maybe Clapton should burn his Strat and beg Todd Rundgren for his
SG back.
ts duke
"JungleJim" <jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> *yawns*
You missed out the Bluesbrakers, Cream, and Blind Faith. If you think those
were crap as well, and were not influential at all, then... well, then never
mind.
D.G. Devin
Not to mention From the Cradle, ya, that's a *real* dull album.
Poppa
> news:3d496fa4$0$210$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> > I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
> > doesn't really like Brian May.
> > But why?
and improviser, whereas May is NOT any of these things, however, May is, imo, more in general intelligent guy, probably
comes from a better social background (or at least, is definitely better educated, he's a physicist of some kind or an
astronomer, I can't remember for sure, and that's a serious academic background) and a much better composer -- partly that
can be seen in his vastly superior to the 12-bar structure technique, and partly in that god only knows what that makes his
music great. To me, no Leyla can compare to something like '39, though both are very simple pieces technique-wise. Hmm... at
least as far as guitar playing.
It's very clear from his music, and he, I think, has admitted it himself, that he likes his stuff to be worked out in
advance, and knowing what his stuff is, you know it *must* be worked out in advanced coz a lot of it is composed,
architected, arranged, and can't even be played live. That's his thing, but when he starts jamming, it's sorta pitiful, here
you can say Clapton beats him. Not that Clapton looks very good these days, but in his days, he's done a lot to push this
sort of rock music (or maybe I should simply say music) to the foreground. Today, May appears to be much more original, but
interestingly, I don't see any continuation of his style, whereas Clapton, being a blues guitarist, certainly, as they say,
still lives in the work of others. Personally I think May, and Queen in general, has been head and shoulders above anything
Clapton did, but that's subjective, of course. When I was a kid, I was getting multiple orgazms from their music, nothing
like that can be said about Clapton, but again, I was born too late to catch his heyday, so it's all out of context. I have
all Queen albums from the beginning till they started making this overdrummed synth-infested elevator music, but I have no
Clapton records. Which is not a derogatory statement, he simply doesn't do anything for me, it's subjective. It's not that
I'm turning the radio down when he's on.
> > Does anybody have any comment on this?
> > Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another.
Well, then you gotta say WHY he dislikes May. There may be legitimate reasons, and also what does he mean when he says he
dislikes him? Gotta give more context.
> > First of
> > all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> > level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As
> > much
> > as professional players.
> > And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
> > And by the way, Brian May's sound is very distinctive and incredibly
> > melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's
> > mastership.
> >
> > Everybody has own qualities.
Very true, but I can't imagine Clapton doesn't know it. So he probably meant something else.
Poppa
> once Frank Zappa called it "lick spewage".
> Pretty funny, and slightly hypocritical, coming for a guy who
> was no stranger to "lick spewage" himself.
.. which is what I was about to say <g>.
JamesATemple
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
Heh, heh! That reminds me of the quote by Chet Atkins. When asked by an
interviewer, "Chet, with all your success as a guitarist, what do you
consider the best song that you've recorded"? Chet answered, "You know, I
never was really pleased with any song I recorded".
With only such a "self-appraisal" as a guide, some folks might be led to
think that Chet was a poor guitarist rather than bein' a perfectionist.
I cut my teeth on early, early blues when it was broadcast only on one or
two stations in the U.S. The station that we could best receive at night
was WLAC, Nashville, Tennessee. "Ernie's Record Mart", "Randy's Record
Mart", "Buckley's Record Mart" and other vendors offered blues records by
mail. Steeped in those broadcasts of Lightnin' Hopkins, Jimmy Reed, Sonny
Boy Williamson, John Lee Hooker, Little Walter, and scores of others, I was
hooked for life. And, I can state unequivocally that Eric Claptons's "Five
Long Years" is one "helluva" inspired rendition of that ol' song.
Still pickin' the blues in Texas,
Jim Temple
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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JamesATemple
"D.G. Devin" <DGD...@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:p8239.23063$Kl6.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Not to mention From the Cradle, ya, that's a *real* dull album.
Interesting that you mention that album, D. G. Though some of headbangers
on the group may feel that "inspiration" is best evidenced by gales of
screamin', bendin' upper-register notes, it was none other than Clarence
"Gatemouth" Brown who told a young, eager Johnny Winters, "Son, you play a
good guitar but sometimes "less" is "more".
The "From the Cradle" album may not appear to some as "inspired" music but
it certainly has inspired a couple of fine young fellows that grew up in my
ol' guitar store. Recently, those boys made a trip down to Austin, Texas,
got to play in one of the blues joints and, if they tell the story
truthfully, made a good impression. I've never known either of 'em to lie
to me, so I'll accept their words as true. They brought back pictures of
happy folks ganged around 'em. Both "cut their teeth" on that "uninspired"
album.
Lookin' for inspiration in Texas,
Poppa
> About 10 years ago there was a Clapton interview in a guitar mag where
> he talks about a record Brian May put outt called "Star Fleet" that also
> had EVH playing on it.. They played a few pretty cool songs and there
> was also a "blues jam" dedicated to Clapton.. In the interview Clapton
> said the song and the playing was terrible. (I don't remember the exact
> quote..) From that point on I thought Clapton was a prick shithead. He
> was probably drunk when he said it..
Why? It was probably true. May's no improviser, whenever he plays live it's sorta, er... pitiful. It's like OK, Brian, you're
a great guy and we're glad to see you, no matter what you do. he prolly thought OK, Queen's dead, so what do we do now... all
right let's get together with some guys and wank a bit, see what comes out... Eddie's more apt live but only as far as dry-
fart figure making on the fretboard. Clapton's a better improviser than the both of them, though he, too, has produced a lot
of uninspired shit.
So, if that's the case, then Clapton simply told the truth, which is good and uncommon, usually these guys only make laudatory
remarks about one another, in many cases disingenuous.
Poppa
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> suspended shemp.
>
:-)
Paul Booth Johnson
"Mike C." wrote:
> And where might I find a recording of one of your inspired blues jams?
> Funny, you wouldn't be here, posting about other guitarists if it wasn't for
> Clapton's "uninspired" blues jams. I haven't heard many blues jams by
> Clapton that weren't inspired, if not inspiring. I suppose those other guys
> with the Bluesbreakers, and with Cream were just as uninspired, too?
>
> Do you realize that the blues wouldn't be at all popular today if it wasn't
> for Clapton?
Umm I would have to disagree with that statement. Although EC did do a lot for
the blues - SRV really put it back on the map in America with Texas Flood. I
really believe SRV would have been the premiere blues man if he were still alive
today.
>
>
> Maybe Clapton was a little out of line with the way he came across in this
> interview. I owned the "Starfleet Project" album(back in the vinyl days),
> and this track was seriously disappointing.
>
> "Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
> news:cfdokuc9eh63s5v7m...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:51:01 -0400, "Mike Murphy"
> > <975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Yes- this is really the point- the track was a jam, and a very uninspired
> > >one at that, IMHO. I thought it was pure crap and was surprised that it
> > >ever saw the light of day. Both May and Van Halen would probably be
> > >embarrassed about this track today. If Clapton criticized this track, I
> can
> > >see why. VH really stunk badly on this track, IMHO.
> >
> > Clapton is in no position to bag on anyone for releasing an uninspired
> > blues jam. He's built his career on them.
--
Dan Stanley
" Z " <mws...@aol.comp> wrote in message
news:20020804032703...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> >1. Yep, let me get out "461 Ocean Blvd" That one is full of amazing
guitar
> work.
It is, actually. It just isn't the fire-breathing Cream era Clapton. He saw
the "guitar hero" persona for what it was, and took a sharp left, working
inside the song, working with musicians ( instead of against competing
soloists in Cream), and doing his best to pare his playing down to not a
whole lot more than the important bits.
He grew up a lot between the end of Cream and "461...".
It's ok if it's not exactly your cup of tea, but it is full of amazing
guitar work, as was "Slowhand", for that matter.
"Backless" sucked, though, I'll give you that.
"From the Cradle" was really good, too, although he often used guitar tones
that were kinda incongruous. Then again, I've been hearing all those songs
by the original artists since I was a kid, so that might have something to
do with it.
In any case, it would serve as a great intro to electric blues for anyone
too young to even know that those songs even existed before that album. The
songs and the playing are the real deal, and he sold a gazillion
copies...good on him.
Do you expect him to be the same man as he was in '66 or '67? He was a KID,
23 or 24 years old or something. Was he even 30 when "461..." came out? He's
looking at 60 now. You might find it hard to believe, but as people grow
older they change.
Dan
Dan Stanley
"Paul Booth Johnson" <p...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:3D4D346B...@frontiernet.net...
>
>
> "Mike C." wrote:
>
> > And where might I find a recording of one of your inspired blues jams?
> > Funny, you wouldn't be here, posting about other guitarists if it wasn't
for
> > Clapton's "uninspired" blues jams. I haven't heard many blues jams by
> > Clapton that weren't inspired, if not inspiring. I suppose those other
guys
> > with the Bluesbreakers, and with Cream were just as uninspired, too?
> >
> > Do you realize that the blues wouldn't be at all popular today if it
wasn't
> > for Clapton?
>
> Umm I would have to disagree with that statement. Although EC did do a lot
for
> the blues - SRV really put it back on the map in America with Texas Flood.
I
> really believe SRV would have been the premiere blues man if he were still
alive
> today.
You know, I love SRV, but since he hit, that stuff...power trio, revved up
StratTubeScreamerUnivibeLoudAmp blooze...has become, apparently, THE
"definition" of blues music. Which is a terrible thing for the genre as a
whole.
True story: I was hanging out the local music store a while back, just
shooting the breeze and hanging out, plunking on whatever was in my hand. A
kid ( teenager) came in, and started plunking away, and we started talking.
He said he was "into blues," and to prove it, played the same three or four
SRV licks he'd been playing since he came in to the store.
T-Bone Walker was on the CD player. At some point after telling me he was
"into blues,"
he told me the stores music "sucked. What is this crap? They should play
blues music in a guitar store..."
I just grinned and shook my head.
Stevie played blues flavored RAWK, for the most part, at least on records
and in shows.
Good for him, too, he worked hard, for a long, long time, to get a chance
for the world to hear his music. Wish he was still around.
Clapton doesn't play much blues these days, except at shows. His records are
mostly adult contemporary pop. Which is fine, of course. He also worked hard
for the world to hear his music.
There are lots of great players playing blues. SRV's got nothing on them.
His fame as a "blues" artist is a double edged sword.
Dan
Spyder Barques
>
> You know, I love SRV, but since he hit, that stuff...power trio,
> revved up StratTubeScreamerUnivibeLoudAmp blooze...has become,
> apparently, THE "definition" of blues music. Which is a terrible
> thing for the genre as a whole.
I'm no blues afficionado, but you definitely hit the nail on the head there.
Bluesy bar rock is a better description.
Has anyone seen the movie 'Ghost World'? Steve Buscemi is a purist who goes
to see an old, obscure Delta acoustic bluesman open for the hot local
'blues' band. He starts talking to a chick who loooves blues. The headliners
come on and start screaming about 'slopping hogs' or something like that to
power chords, fake blues licks, and dance beats and all the bar patrons
start jumping around and spilling beer. She asks him, "Don't you like
blues?" It was one of the few funny parts of the movie, because it was dead
on.
--
Thad
ffohkce at hotmail dot com
Louisiana's New State Slogan:
"We're Not ALL Drunk Cajun Wackos, But That's Our Tourism Campaign"
Mike C.
the world, by his own admission. And Daryl Hall is the greatest vocalist
that ever lived, right? Maybe they could put a band together, and you could
be their roadie.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
news:0psokukn05gr52q8o...@4ax.com...
Mike C.
posers.
" Z " <mws...@aol.comp> wrote in message
news:20020804032703...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> >1. Yep, let me get out "461 Ocean Blvd" That one is full of amazing
guitar
> work.
> >2. Then I'll play "There's One in Every Crowd", a CD that is chock full
of
> blistering--you hear me? I say BLISTERING -- solos.
>
> Now I understand. You aren't into music, just guitar heroism. Fine. If
that's
> what you like there's plenty of it around.
> On the other hand, for someone interested in hearing Clapton stretch a bit
and
> play from his soul, those are two excellent albums.
Mike C.
for Clapton.
"Paul Booth Johnson" <p...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:3D4D346B...@frontiernet.net...
>
>
Dan Stanley
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:Znc39.48024$Ru5....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> 461 Ocean Blvd, for one, was an excellent album. This loser just likes
> posers.
To be fair, I misquoted.. this feller "Z" DIDN'T write that about "461..",
it was whoever he was replying too. My mistake on the quoting, sorry.
Dan
Dan Stanley
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
I'm not so sure about that. He was listening to Jimmie's record collection
back when EC was still a Yardbird. Sure, EC was "bluesy", but the Yardbirds,
whoever great they were, weren't really much of a blues band.
Dan
Steve2000indeja
>
>"Mike C." wrote:
>
>> And where might I find a recording of one of your inspired blues jams?
>> Funny, you wouldn't be here, posting about other guitarists if it wasn't
>for
>> Clapton's "uninspired" blues jams. I haven't heard many blues jams by
>> Clapton that weren't inspired, if not inspiring. I suppose those other guys
>> with the Bluesbreakers, and with Cream were just as uninspired, too?
>>
>> Do you realize that the blues wouldn't be at all popular today if it wasn't
>> for Clapton?
>
>Umm I would have to disagree with that statement. Although EC did do a lot
>for
>the blues - SRV really put it back on the map in America with Texas Flood. I
>really believe SRV would have been the premiere blues man if he were still
>alive
>today.
>
Uh....the blues rock musical 'map' SRV put the blues back on in the early 80s
was started by Eric Clapton, a killer white blues player supercharging his
hero's riffs with Big Rock tone, expanding the style and bringing defining
blues rock guitar to a huge mainstream audience in 1966.
As is so often the case in Clapton (and Hendrix) threads, folks think all these
players were contemporaries. Stevie Ray was simply re-igniting interest in the
supercharged blues 15 years after Clapton led the first onslaught-creating one
of the great rock guitar sounds/tones in the process.
EC and SRV were eventually contemporaries but only because Clapton (unlike some
other 60s blues rock guitar greats) had kept his career going up to then - and
beyond. EC was always a strong live act, no matter what his 70s and 80s studio
records were about.
But without EC's hot mid-late 60s guitar hero work, the whole course of rock
guitar changes somewhat... Maybe blues doesn't become popular with a big white
mainstream rock audience. Maybe Hendrix doesn't get Chas Chandler to invest in
him when he's an unknown, hoping to cash in, making Jimi the next guitar hero
in the new style Eric Clapton has been defining in Mayall and especially Cream.
Maybe [fill in the blank with success story of many 60s, 70s, 80s rock
guitarists] doesn't happen, or happen the way the way thaey did. Some of these
guys adimittely could not be stopped.
Eric's fiery playing circa 66-68 and his emergence as the first (60s
blues/hard) popular rock guitar star-maybe not as big as Jimi Hendrix
eventually got, Jimi took it and Ran With It ... but EC still Hendrix's career
inspiration and chronological predecessor-helped Everything and Everybody get
there. And fans loved it. Lots of folks still love a guitar hero ... even a
class act and still hot blues guy like Eric Clapton- 35+ years into his
career/role of 'reluctant hero.'
-----
America has turned into a country of Top 10 listmaking and 'rating' things.
Fine. It's fun entertainment and we see it in newsgroups all the time.
But it just doesn't work in music, imo. You can really only have subjective
opinions about favorite players, favorite recordings or performances. Or
subjective opinions about what you don't like.
But even more-so than in pro sports entertainment - where comparison is
everything, hard stats drive conslusions, those reporters and fans still have
trouble rating the legends with the currently great players due to rule changes
and steroids...
It's a mistake to try to truly 'rate' a great guitarist from the late 60s with
younger players who came along later- frequently building on or inspired by the
work of their predecessors.
Imo, however much fun it is in these newsgroups and elsewhere it's a mistake to
rate the abilities of musicians or 'rate' songs ferchrissakes. It's ultimately
subjective and the field is nowhere close to level... The timeline when various
players did their best work is ignored or obscured by strong opinion, bashing
etc. In my book you like something or you don't. it's not 'who's better? or
who's overrated?...
With all the list making and rating going on in all aspects of our culture one
might get the impression that not much new or creative stuff is happening (or
if it is, it's not getting heard or seen by most of us) - thus the constant
'rating' of things.
---
Without the late 50s, early 60s electric work of The Kings and other seminal
blues guys, maybe you don't get Clapton's breakthrough guitar licks and tone
circa 1966. Without EC, who knows if you get Chandler to bankroll Hendrix? Jeff
Beck, Jimmy Page and Mike Bloomfield already had careers in 1965...so maybe the
Sound Of Rock would be teles through voxes, or Les Pauls through Twins- instead
of the thick, singing-Wailing magic tone and at that point, virtuosic riffing
of Eric Clapton playing Les Pauls/Gibsons through Marshalls with John Mayall
and in Cream.
Tone and playing so fantastic (at the time) it influenced all the great late
60s (and many later) guitarists. SRV may not have been a Clapton clone, but the
high energy blues rock he played was to a reawakened mainstream audience which
had originally been turned on to that hot-rodded modern way of doing this
general style of hot blues guitar/big tone by the late 60s blues rockers.
And Eric Clapton was the first (or nearly so) and certainly strongly influenced
many many others- including some of his true contemporaries such as Beck,
Hendrix and Page who were quick to jump on the Marshall bandwagon and help
usher in the bigger than life concerts, tones etc of the what we now take for
granted as Rock Guitar.
It didn't happen all at once.
imo
Steve
Parker
it as Clapton moved on and the critic didn't.
Parker
"Dan Stanley" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Rob39.294$5T5...@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
Parker
Parker
"Steve2000indeja " <sslag...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020804130149...@mb-mv.aol.com...
Florentine Baghead
wrote:
>And Stevie Ray wouldn't have *heard* of blues(20 years later) if it wasn't
>for Clapton.
Lots of people seem to be under the impression that blues was some
kind of obscure underground movement that would have gone away
unnoticed had it not been for Eric Clapton and a few other white
guitar players. This is pure horseshit.
Florentine Baghead
wrote:
> When I see people saying "Clapton didn't do anything after Layla", I see
>it as Clapton moved on and the critic didn't.
I see it as Clapton's drug habit burned him out and he couldn't play
for shit.
Florentine Baghead
has more credibility than when he blows his own horn.
On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 16:10:04 GMT, "Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com>
wrote:
>Right, and by that thinking, Ted Nugent must be the greatest guitarist in
Steve2000indeja
Just as the Beatles, Stones and other Brit Invasion groups covering regionally
popular r+b, rockabilly and other utterly 'American' songs then sending them
back to us, and the covers selling millions more than the American originals
didn't happen/is pure horseshit, eh?
Read some interviews with some of the black artists who wrote (and sold/lost
the publishing to) and maybe originally recorded a bunch of these tunes. Most
weren't too pleased. The record labels loved it.
A bunch of our music-especially southern or black music, had to go to England
to get redone and be released back to us to become hits with the (fast growing)
American mainstream rock music audience.
In the early 60s, the hot rock and roll, rockabilly and jump r+b of the late
50s- with the exception of some Elvis and Chuck Berry stuff- had mainly been
regional hits, considered a fad and had cooled off considerably by design of US
record labels and much to the relief of US parents of teenagers during that
time.
Some the 50s rock and roll and bluesy things redone in the early 60s by
ambitious but inexperienced UK groups like the Stones, Animals etc came back
watered down or maybe poorly played.
But this was not nearly as ridiculous as the white covers of great rock and
soul songs which had to be re-done to break a race record into the mainstream
charts in the segregated climate in the US during the first wave of rock and
roll in the 50s. Witness the infamous Pat Boone cover of Tutti Frutti. White
mainstream radio-even stations playing the edgier rock and roll format-drew the
line at Little Richard. At least everywhere but the in the South...
-----
In the mid 60s, blues struck a chord with young white folks in the US as folk
music had done in the late 50s/early 60s. Still, BB King was doing just ok
playing the chitlin/blues circuit, Albert's star was climbing but only in those
circuits and only on certain radio stations. Texas has always been a vibrant
music scene unto itself, thank god..and several bluesmen (including Freddy)
were doing ok there with the occasional foray north to roll the dice in
Chicago.
Circa 1965, blues was a blip on pop music radar.
2 years later blues rock was red hot and in the midst of what would be a
decades long domination of rock and roll.
As much as I like Paul Butterfield's work circa 65-66- as well as the Kings,
Muddy and others...it seems like 'blues' was almost an academic deal which
white folks went to the Newport Jazz Festival to hear...it was a snobby,
"hipper than thou"
thing to dig blues.
In 1967-68 blues rock was the hottest thing in the music business, the top
notch acts in the genre were beginning perform at the first arena sized (15,000
seat) rock concerts. The first Real concerts, not fan spectacles such as the
Beatles singing through house PAs at baseball stadiums a few years earlier.
------
Eric Clapton's emergence as an unparalleled blues guitarist and tone god in
1966 was revolutionary.
Though he left the Yardbirds to pursue 'purer blues', he soon formed Cream - a
powerful rock band underpinned by Clapton's supercharged ultra-bluesy licks-
and powered by stacks of Marshall amps they soon had a large word of mouth
following based on their live performances. Soon their records began to sell
truckloads and Cream broke Big into the American rock mainstream of the time.
At their best- in live concert-Cream was the first larger than life supergroup
(though it might be argued the nascent Who were right on their tails, they had
the show, if not necessarily the chops in 66-67)
I don't see the Paul Butterfield Band (more along the lines of a 'better' John
Mayall non-pop Chicago-style blues band) as having the direction or power to
hit the large US market and become the first blues rock supergroup the way
Cream did. Just wasn't their thing. Clapton's/Cream's influence and huge
success caused formation of many rock groups which based their styles on blues.
True career bluesmen such as BB and Albert King-who had peaked on the blues
circuit and the occasional token jazz festival appearance - suddenly found
themselves playing headlining bills, now before enthusiastic large audiences on
the emerging ballroom circuit - the circuit which gave birth to the modern era
Rock concert as we now know it.
"The Thrill Is Gone" is BB King's biggest selling tune. It crossed over to the
pop charts in 1969 amidst the blues rock influence which the large American
mainstream pop music audience was embracing at the time...in large part due to
a bunch of generally white, generally British blues rock guitarists who's
groups and playing merged blues and rock with tremendous success.
The first great one was Eric Clapton.
imo
Steve
JamesATemple
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:Iqc39.248296$Wt3.234766@rwcrnsc53...
> And Stevie Ray wouldn't have *heard* of blues(20 years later) if it wasn't
> for Clapton.
Help me out here, Mike. Are you sayin' that SRV was inspired by Clapton?
Puzzled in Texas,
alann
Why are all of you arguing about this crap????
They are different.
Look at todays music.
Everybody sounds like Creed or Corn ( spelled correctly ).
At least they have their own tones and sounds.
Dan Stanley
"Parker" <terry...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:M9e39.48507$Ru5....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> When I see people saying "Clapton didn't do anything after Layla", I see
> it as Clapton moved on and the critic didn't.
>
> Parker
>
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
But I think any fan of guitar playing, blues or rock or whatever, should
still be able to appreciate Bluesbreakers, Cream, Derek & the Dominoes, and
then Clapton as a solo artist, despite the disparity of styles. One can have
a favorite era, of course ( I'm partial to Bluesbreakers and Derek and the
Dominoes, myself, along with Yardbirds and some of his early solo stuff),
and one can certainly feel disappointed by a lackluster effort ( Backless,
some of the mid 80's stuff...), but still and all he is a player of
unquestionable skill, grace and dignity, and has been able to keep it up for
a long, long time. Compare his career, at this point to BB King or Ray
Charles...THOSE guys are his peers, more than the people of his own era.
Dan
TAPKAE
> You know, I love SRV, but since he hit, that stuff...power trio, revved up
> StratTubeScreamerUnivibeLoudAmp blooze...has become, apparently, THE
> "definition" of blues music. Which is a terrible thing for the genre as a
> whole.
Yep. I don't even like blues, but I won't be fooled by the SRV torchbearers.
Folly. Blues RAWK, as you say. Blues FLAVORED at that. Robert Johnson was
blues. Not SRV.
> True story: I was hanging out the local music store a while back, just
> shooting the breeze and hanging out, plunking on whatever was in my hand. A
> kid ( teenager) came in, and started plunking away, and we started talking. He
> said he was "into blues," and to prove it, played the same three or four SRV
> licks he'd been playing since he came in to the store. T-Bone Walker was on
> the CD player. At some point after telling me he was "into blues," he told me
> the stores music "sucked. What is this crap? They should play blues music in a
> guitar store..." I just grinned and shook my head.
The folly, in addition to the obvious overlook, is that he thinks that blues
is the only style that has any worth that should be paid attention to. Sorry
kid, there is far more to guitar music than blues. He'll come around. But
he'll have to hear something outside of his usual fare.
e
http://tapkae.com
http://hogheavenmedia.com
Cooler than sh*t!
Dan Stanley
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 16:15:36 GMT, "Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com>
> wrote:
>
> >And Stevie Ray wouldn't have *heard* of blues(20 years later) if it
wasn't
> >for Clapton.
>
> Lots of people seem to be under the impression that blues was some
> kind of obscure underground movement
Obscure? Absolutely. It was called "race music", and could only be heard and
the records bought in a few cities ghetto areas. The few artists who got a
chance to record weren't usually treated very fairly, and barely eked out a
living playing to black crowds on the chitlin circuit. The ones who got to
play at big "white" events often had to dress and act like they were county
bumpkins, otherwise they weren't "authentic" enough.
They didn't sell a lot of tickets, they didn't sell a lot of records.
"Underground movement?" Nah. Just a bunch of folks doing what they could.
> that would have gone away
> unnoticed
By the time EC hit, even most black people, certainly the record buying
kids, weren't interested in it. It was looked upon as "uncle tom" or
"keeping the brotha down" music. Soul was on the upswing in a big way,
Doo-wop too, rapidly followed by the pop stylings of Motown
> had it not been for Eric Clapton and a few other white
> guitar players. This is pure horseshit.
No one else was doing it. EC in England, along with Page and some others.
Robbie Robertson in Canada, Mike Broomfield in Chicago, sure there were
others, but you bet your bottom dollar that except for Hendrix ( who
traveled WAY further from the blues than any of those guys), they were all
white. They brought the music to the white kids, and some of the white kids
went and heard the real thing, after that. Check out Albert Kings Fillmore
live record....ask yourself the racial makeup of the audience, and ask
yourself how he got on the bill. Altruism on Bill Graham's part? Nah. Some
skinny white guitar player suggested to Bill that maybe Albert would go over
big? A-yup.
If those guys hadn't done it, the blues wouldn't have been introduced to the
massive market, and may have simple faded away. Certainly the forms ties to
rock would be less strong than it still is.
As it is, like I said, to many people "blues" is SRV, and not a whole lot
else. I'd say it's STILL fading away.
Dan
Dan Stanley
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
I see it as his kicking his drug habit made him a little more able to see
the forest for the trees.
Dan
Dan Stanley
"TAPKAE" <TAP...@MAC.COMpost> wrote in message
news:B972EB9A.4C084%TAP...@MAC.COMpost...
> Dan Stanley heard this from a drunken, unemployed, washed up dot com exec:
>
> > You know, I love SRV, but since he hit, that stuff...power trio, revved
up
> > StratTubeScreamerUnivibeLoudAmp blooze...has become, apparently, THE
> > "definition" of blues music. Which is a terrible thing for the genre as
a
> > whole.
>
> Yep. I don't even like blues, but I won't be fooled by the SRV
torchbearers.
> Folly. Blues RAWK, as you say. Blues FLAVORED at that. Robert Johnson was
> blues. Not SRV.
SRV had strong roots in the blues, no question, and I'm not putting him down
at all. He really was a breath of fresh air when he burst out.
But, yeah, his thang was "blooze" and he really RAWKED hard. At home, with
friends, maybe he got closer to the bone, I don't know.
> > True story: I was hanging out the local music store a while back, just
> > shooting the breeze and hanging out, plunking on whatever was in my
hand. A
> > kid ( teenager) came in, and started plunking away, and we started
talking. He
> > said he was "into blues," and to prove it, played the same three or four
SRV
> > licks he'd been playing since he came in to the store. T-Bone Walker was
on
> > the CD player. At some point after telling me he was "into blues," he
told me
> > the stores music "sucked. What is this crap? They should play blues
music in a
> > guitar store..." I just grinned and shook my head.
>
> The folly, in addition to the obvious overlook, is that he thinks that
blues
> is the only style that has any worth that should be paid attention to.
It isn't even that narrow. It's that his picture of "blues" is ONE man's
guitar playing.
Stevie had a huge grab bag of licks, riffs, tricks, songs and influences,
but this next generation has one, apparently...SRV.
The result is the musical version of "when cousins marry."
Then again, the same could be said of my generation, in many ways...we had
two: Clapton and Bloomfield!
Of course, some will dig further back and find Muddy and T-Bone and Hooker
and Patton and like them. We did, eventually.
>Sorry
> kid, there is far more to guitar music than blues. He'll come around. But
> he'll have to hear something outside of his usual fare.
Yeah. He's just a kid, after all. God bless his enthusiasm, at least he's
DOING something, not just watching it on MTV or his Gameboy, right? God
knows I wasn't necessarily open minded when I was a kid!
Dan
Florentine Baghead
wrote:
>No one else was doing it. EC in England, along with Page and some others.
>Robbie Robertson in Canada, Mike Broomfield in Chicago, sure there were
>others, but you bet your bottom dollar that except for Hendrix ( who
>traveled WAY further from the blues than any of those guys), they were all
>white.
That's impossible for you to know. Everyone who was trying to play the
music didn't become a rock star. That's the assumption you're making.
Florentine Baghead
) wrote:
>In the mid 60s, blues struck a chord with young white folks in the US as folk
>music had done in the late 50s/early 60s. Still, BB King was doing just ok
>playing the chitlin/blues circuit, Albert's star was climbing but only in those
>circuits and only on certain radio stations. Texas has always been a vibrant
>music scene unto itself, thank god..and several bluesmen (including Freddy)
>were doing ok there with the occasional foray north to roll the dice in
>Chicago.
That proves my point.
Dan Stanley
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
The guys who made it all the way to rock star were the ones who influenced
me.
What I do know, and it's documented, is that the blues radio broadcasts
coming out of Memphis ( especially Memphis, but other cities, too) were
turning on lots of white kids, but no black kids.
Dylan up in Hibbing. Jesse Ed Davis ( there's one who wasn't white, he was
an American Indian) in Oklahoma. Greg and Duane Allman out there in Florida,
where ever they were. Gibbons out there in Texas.
Sure, some no-name, never made the big time kids, too, of course.
Black kids WEREN'T buying blues records, weren't dancing to blues records,
weren't buying tickets to see blues artists when they came through town.
Their parents were, but with that generation, it would have died, or at
least become a tiny niche, interesting to music scholars, but not a "popular
musical entertainment" form.
Clapton and Broomfield hit first, and they hit hard, and THAT'S the root
cause of the blues boom among white kids in America.
Dan
Steve2000indeja
Great series of posts, Dan.
Re: this last bit. I'd forgotten how narrowminded I was as a kid. I was a
Clapton/Bloomfield guy all the way. Thought Hendrix was a talented player but
relied on gimmicks and show/volume to get across.
Finally came to appreciate Hendrix years later...maybe never would have if
there hadn't been the money machine (lawyers and labels) repackaging him and
remarketing him so consistently that if you look at (but don't read) the guitar
mag covers of the last 15 years you'd think he was still alive.
In my learning days, anyone who played outside the box suspect to me.
I liked Winter a lot when he came along, same with Peter Green and Jeff Beck
(Beck now being my favorite of all these guys). Also Mick Taylor, who got
better as the years went by.
Thought Leslie West was a one trick pony with fat tone (actually I have to give
credit for that to a friend who said back in the day that 'Leslie knows one
lick 15 different ways"). Same with Alvin Lee, only he knew 4 or 5 licks -which
he played hella fast 15 different ways:)
I thought Kim Simmonds had his own guitar voice, as did Harvey Mandel. Still
think so. Duane and Dickey were great, Duane an obvious master.
And I was always trying to be the good blues student, listening to BB, Albert
and Freddie as my heros said they did. Albert's Fillmore sets were great (live
and on record.) There's is as big a lesson to be learned from Albert's phrasing
and tone as from BB, imo. Stevie Ray learned it.
There's also a big lesson to be learned from Muddy Waters entire approach.
Listening to Muddy was my link to the delta stuff, I guess- still a whole world
of blues licks in the first position and open tunings which I haven't gotten to
yet. I ventured into some of the real deal deal delta and Chicago blues guys
but- being a kid- couldn't hear the emotion in their playing. Some just seemed
primitive and out of tune... I think with every generation players
unfortunately get further removed from the primal stuff.
----
I also group Albert Collins in with the greats, what a totally distinctive-and
totally bluesy- style. I think Harvey Mandel may have listened to him...or vice
versa.
Still, though, mainly rooted in the UK blues style as initially I initially
heard it from EC-and listening to players who did their own variations on
(close or distant) to that style.
The guy in the Doors? Forget him. Pete Townshend? That guy can't really play
Lead (helluva rhythm player though). The psychedelic bands/players? Geezus
someone tell them to work on their nervous vibratos, ferchrissakes. get em to
listen to some Real Blues guys. Never occured to me that these folks might be
tryig to do Something Else.
I was playing bass for money in a country band back then and didn't recognize
the greatness in the playing of many of the Nashville casts and Western swing
guys, whose songs and arrangements we covered. Ironically it took Roy Buchanan
to open my ears to what a natural wonder the telecaster is. I now realize the
steel player in that band was an absolute monster. He doubled on second lead
was a better musician than I'll ever be.
As a kid and teenager I wanted to hear straight or rocked up blues. Luckily
back then there were a lot more choices of who to like-and not-as far as
currently popular bluesy players.
And thank goodness I eventually grew up enough to be able to want mix tapes
(now CDs) which might have prime Eric or Peter, Roy, Danny, Larry Carlton, Pat
Metheny, Chet, Vince Gill, Eddie, Satch and the Edge/U2 on them....(though I
usually group the players/genres on individual tapes, so I can listen depending
on mood.)
Johnny A's CD is spends a lot of time in the player tracking straight through.
Wonder when he's gonna do another?
Too bad a kid thinks the blues is only SRV or the SRV wannabes (though Stevie
nails it Albert Style on the his versions of stuff like "Texas Flood' or "The
Sky is Crying" as well as anyone ever has, imo). Kids will be kids. I'm sure
my preferences and closed mindedness about who was "the real deal" had some
fellow players shaking their heads...(maybe they still do:)
But at least the kid is latching onto some good guitar playing, however narrow,
in this rather barren time for lead guitar. If he hangs in there he'll grow
out of it- or into it as the case may be.
Steve
Steve2000indeja
>Steve2000indeja wrote:
>
>>In the mid 60s, blues struck a chord with young white folks in the US as
>folk
>>music had done in the late 50s/early 60s. Still, BB King was doing just ok
>>playing the chitlin/blues circuit, Albert's star was climbing but only in
>those
>>circuits and only on certain radio stations. Texas has always been a vibrant
>>music scene unto itself, thank god..and several bluesmen (including Freddy)
>>were doing ok there with the occasional foray north to roll the dice in
>>Chicago.
>
>That proves my point.
Taken outa context or maybe i coulda written it better.
The mainstream getting exposed to blues didn't happen due to the great playing
the Kings and others were in the mid 60s. Those bluesmen got heard by large
numbers of white kids after the UK blues rock guitarists got hugely popular and
began talking in interviews about who their influences were. Music critics
helped spread the word and rock promoters eventually seized on the opportunity
to book bluesmen who would appeal to fans of the now popular blues rock music.
Before Cream, BB and Albert could headline the Apollo etc. After Cream and the
other heavy UK blues rockers got big, the doors opened and mainstream
popularity happened for the very guys who influenced the Brit players in the
first place.
It's an irony that's long been acknowledged.
Steve
Mike C.
"Steve2000indeja " <sslag...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020804130149...@mb-mv.aol.com...
> >
> >
JungleJim
> 461 Ocean Blvd, for one, was an excellent album. This loser just likes
> posers.
>
like "posers". You sure are one helluva observant guy. Yep, I am a
loser and the only music I appreciate is the stuff made by posers. In
fact, what inspired me to write about Clapton's brilliant post-1970s
body of work were two CDs I happened to listen to yesterday morning:
"Tatoo" by Rory Gallagher, and "Crusade" by John Mayall. Both CDs, as
you know, feature the most plastic, soul-less, gutless music ever
produced. In a nutshell, "poser" music. Just thought you'd like to
know, Mike. Ciao!
Mike C.
"Forever Man," write a song remotely close to "Wonderful Tonight," compose
music for any movie soundtracks, interpret any music as well as Clapton and
his band did on "21 Nights," do any classic remakes of tunes such as "I Shot
The Sheriff," "Cocaine," "After Midnight,"(twice)? Ever play an amazing
kick-ass version of "Further On The Road" with The Band during their Last
Waltz concert, or hold your own against Jeff Beck during a concert called
"The Secret Policeman's Other Ball"?
We all know who Clapton is. Who are you again?
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
news:1rtqkuctc3jlejnr9...@4ax.com...
Mike C.
horseshit.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
news:qctqkug52jomouh5p...@4ax.com...
Mike C.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
What point is that? The one on your head?
Mike C.
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
I see. So Wes Montgomery, Chet Atkins, Jeff Beck, and Pat Metheny are all
substandard, right? I would think that someone who is obviously a moron and
spews out stupidity has far less credibility to anyone who has lived more
than the past 5 years.
Mike C.
Stevie Ray had Clapton not been around. B.B and Albert King were certainly
not part of the U.S. white listening experience before Clapton made it
popular.
Stevie Ray was certainly influenced by Albert King. Albert and B.B. were
only popular with a black audience in the '60's. It wasn't until the British
Invasion that they were even heard by white audiences, which kicked off the
blues revolution. Stevie Ray was influenced in a roundabout way by Clapton.
Not by Clapton's playing, but was indluenced to be a blues fan by Clapton's
followers, who were a huge part of the listening American white audience at
the time.
Nothing against Stevie Ray, but he owes at least somewhat of his career to
Clapton.
"JamesATemple" <bev...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:3d4d8...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
Mike C.
"TAPKAE" <TAP...@MAC.COMpost> wrote in message
news:B972EB9A.4C084%TAP...@MAC.COMpost...
Well, not only that, but the music he was hearing *is* blues, and it's
*great* blues, at that. I'd be more likely to say "sorry kid, there is far
more to blues than beat-up strats through screaming Marshalls." Whenever I
hear a Stevie Ray copycat, I can't be any more bored. I assume that this SRV
clone knows nothing about the blues or it's history.
Mike C.
Mayall's career with him.
Additionally, an old acquaintance once shared an account of seeing a show in
which Gallagher opened for Clapton. Evidently, Gallagher put on a helluva
show, and many were wondering how Eric was going to fare against such a
virtuoso. Clapton started his show, and I'm told that his first note told
the whole story. The tone of his guitar, the phrasing, the very note played
left no one in doubt why Gallagher was opening for Clapton and not the other
way around.
If you can't see the merits of Clapton's work throughout the '70's and have
so little self-esteem that you feel the need to criticise a guitar that most
of the world considers a master of his craft, then you may want to take a
better look at your stature, little man.
If you can't see the merits of 461 Ocean Blvd., then you just haven't done
much of your homework.
"JungleJim" <jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2d6284b6.02080...@posting.google.com...
JungleJim
And where are your recordings, troll? Ever play anything remotely
close to
"Forever Man," write a song remotely close to "Wonderful Tonight,"
compose
music for any movie soundtracks, interpret any music as well as
Clapton and
his band did on "21 Nights," do any classic remakes of tunes such as
"I Shot
The Sheriff," "Cocaine," "After Midnight,"(twice)? Ever play an
amazing
kick-ass version of "Further On The Road" with The Band during their
Last
Waltz concert, or hold your own against Jeff Beck during a concert
called
"The Secret Policeman's Other Ball"?
So William Hazlitt, the great Romantic literary critic, wrote no epic
poetry himself, but delivered much keen insight into the poetry of
Wordsworth. And Samuel Johnson was no Shakespeare, but many of his
essays on Shakespeare helped many with their appreciation of the Bard.
Two questions here: maybe you can tell me why you felt so personally
insulted by my comments on Clapton. I own all those CDs I mentioned. I
paid for them. I listen to them. I have a right to my opinion. And
this forum gives me the right to express those opinions publicly. And
you certainly have a right to trash me and use idiot logic to back up
your points.
And I have the right to say that Clapton did NOT hold his own against
Beck in the Secret Policeman's Other Ball. Beck wiped the floor with
him.
We all know who Clapton is. Who are you again?
And now for part two of your diatribe. You say:
> Hmmm, funny, Clapton helped make some of the most enduring, famous music of
> Mayall's career with him.
I wonder how many Mayall fans would agree with you. What would Mayall
say? That he put out more than 30 albums but the one featuring Clapton
on guitar contains the "most enduring, famous music" of his career?
First of all, what does "famous" music sound like? Is it better than
"non-famous" music? What does "enduring" music sound like? Is it music
with incredible amount of sustain behind it? Maybe you should stick
your head in a book and get off the Internet. You may learn something.
>
> Additionally, an old acquaintance once shared an account of seeing a show in
> which Gallagher opened for Clapton. Evidently, Gallagher put on a helluva
> show, and many were wondering how Eric was going to fare against such a
> virtuoso. Clapton started his show, and I'm told that his first note told
> the whole story. The tone of his guitar, the phrasing, the very note played
> left no one in doubt why Gallagher was opening for Clapton and not the other
> way around.
Who cares? Did I say that Rory Gallagher was better? No, I suggested
that the CD I was listening to, "Tatoo"--which was recorded at around
the same time Clapton was holed up in Florida piecing together that
piece of crap named after the address of the recording studio--was a
good piece of work that inspired me to say something about Clapton
falling off after 1970.
> If you can't see the merits of Clapton's work throughout the '70's and have
> so little self-esteem that you feel the need to criticise a guitar that most
> of the world considers a master of his craft, then you may want to take a
> better look at your stature, little man.
I have low self-esteem? What the hell does that have to do with my
opinion of Clapton's post-1970 work?
> If you can't see the merits of 461 Ocean Blvd., then you just haven't done
> much of your homework.
Ah! A fine way to end a fine piece of criticism. I don't like 461
Ocean Blvd. Then it's my problem. Oh I see. What logic! Shall we call
that "Mike C's" logic? I'll use that against my boss sometime. What?
You don't like the quality of my work, Mr Dithers? Well, I'm sorry
but according to Mike C's logic, then you just haven't done your
homework.
Enough of this shit, I'm outta here.
Mike C.
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
"JungleJim" <jungl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2d6284b6.02080...@posting.google.com...
Dan Stanley
"Florentine Baghead" <em...@email.email> wrote in message
Which is what? Albert King, Albert Collins, Freddie King wouldn't have
anything but the chitlin circuit, a fading and failing chitlin circuit, to
play on, like Steve2000 said. If it weren't for the renewed interest in
blues, those guys would be footnotes, regionally remarkable, maybe, but not
guys who were able to tour nationally.
Did you not read the rest of Steve's post?
Freddie toured with Clapton a TON before his death. We've already mentioned
Albert's success at the Fillmore. Collins too benefited. It wasn't black
kids listening to those guys, it was white kids, and they wouldn't have
found them if it weren't for Clapton and few others. Period.
Dan
Alex Van Starrex
May's love for Hendrix is well-documented, though the influence is fairly
well hidden (other than volume and tone-wise) - try "Father To Son" from
Queen II for the nearest thing to an actual rip-off.
--
My main web-sites:
http://homepages.tig.com.au/~avanstar
(Sydney Morning Herald: "Best Personal Site on the Web")
http://www.mp3.com.au/AlexVanStarrex/
My "best-of" mp3 page
http://www.geocities.com/~avanstar
"A Virtual Serenade: 50 Popular Songs in Real Video"
There are others...
"Jens Gabriels" <jen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d496fa4$0$210$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> Hi
>
> i have this question.
>
> I'm reading a biography of Eric Clapton now, and i read that Clapton
doesn't
> really
> like Brian May.
> But why?
>
> Does anybody have any comment on this?
> Because, i think musicians don't have to critisize one another. First of
> all, because music is one of the few things people can enjoy on their own
> level. I think I enjoy playing the guitar as much as anybody else. As
much
> as professional players.
> And secondly, musical taste is perhaps the most relative thing.
> And by the way, Brian May's sound is very distinctive and incredibly
> melodic. Compare his live-sound with the studio-sound. That's
mastership.
>
> Everybody has own qualities.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Parker
and Chuck Berry open for the Stones (1969).
Parker
"Dan Stanley" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ZKu39.3757$qJ5....@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...