best midi foot controller?
rachel, tetsu and miho
I'm looking to buy a midi footcontroller, and there are a number of
choices. Now, I thought that all controllers were equal because, after
all, it just sends midi messages to a rack. But looking through the
Harmony Central Effects Database I found some bad comments on the ART X-15
(glitching problems, and something about a narrow continuous controller
band). Does anyone have any suggestions? Or are foot controllers
basically all alike, with glitching problems and whatnot stemming from the
flaws in one's rack device?
thanks for any response,
tetsu.
rachel, tetsu and miho
In article <4unhm7$1...@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com>, gwa...@cv.hp.com (gary watts) wrote:
> Guide to Switchers, MIDI pedalboards, Routers
> and other utility boxes for guitar racks
> Gary Watts
> gwa...@cv.hp.com
> May 14,1996
> Second Revision
geez Gary, I didn't expect all this...I thank you for all your trouble...
tetsu.
gary watts
rachel, tetsu and miho (gai...@telis.org) wrote:
: I'm looking to buy a midi footcontroller, and there are a number of
: choices. Now, I thought that all controllers were equal because, after
Here's some info on the more "upscale pedals" that send program changes
on multiple channels at one time.
Guide to Switchers, MIDI pedalboards, Routers
and other utility boxes for guitar racks
Gary Watts
gwa...@cv.hp.com
May 14,1996
Second Revision
I won't go so far as to call this a FAQ but rather informational in nature.
This is not necessarily 100% complete but encompasses what I am aware of out
there today. Feel free to send corrections and additions to gwa...@cv.hp.com.
This is a publication to help in choosing devices for switching and
controlling audio signals in guitar applications. While not restricted to
guitar (they could be used for other audio applications like keyboards etc),
this is the context in which the information is presented.
Switchers: These are used to take devices in and out of the audio path. Some
units can also do ground lift type functions for channel switching of amps etc.
Custom Audio Electronics 4x4:
Number of loops: 4
Loops are stereo capable?: yes
Number of switches:4
MIDI control method: continuous controllers
Size: 1 rack space
Price: $599.00 list, $469 direct
Input is buffered with variable gain. You can bypass this by using the
rear input of loop 1.
They also make 1/2 rack versions. One is a 4-loop switcher, another
is an 8 tip-to-gnd switcher.
Rocktron Patchmate:
Number of loops: 9
Loops are stereo capable?:yes
Number of switches: any loop can be used as a ground lift switch
MIDI control method: program change (each switch configuration is stored as
a preset that is recalled)
Size: 1 rack space
Price: $769 list
Also includes a stereo Hush loop. VERY useful, although
the thing doesn't have adjustable filter controls
like in other standalone Hush devices. [just the 'threshold'].
Digital Music Corporation Ground Control Audio Switcher
Number of loops: 8
Loops are stereo capable: no (must use 2 loops each stereo pair)
Number of switches: 2
MIDI control method: continuous controllers
Size: 1 rack space
Price: $350.00 list
Sound Sculpture Switchblade 16
Number of Loops: 16 in 16 out
Loops are stereo capable?: no
Number of switches: 8
MIDI control method: program change
Size: 1 rack space high
Price: $2299.00
This is a switching matrix. You can have any combination of serial and
parallel with any device attached.
Additional comments from net land:This is really a 16x16 linear control matrix! You can send any amount of
any input to any combo of outputs. It is completely programmable, so I
don't know why it wouldn't be able to do stereo loops with pairs of
channels. Also, It also has provisions for programmable gain
adjustment for each device attached, and an LFO somewhere.
Other units on the used market that are no longer made:
Mesa Midi Matrix
Number of loops:6 mono
Number of switches:8
Loops can be stereo: no, only 3 loops if usd in a stereo fashion
Midi control method: program change
Options: has 2 A/B routers at the front of the chain to select amps/preamps
(4 total)
Scholz Octopus
Number of Loops: none
Loops are stereo capable?: see note
Number of switches: 8
MIDI control method: program change
Size: 1 rack space high, half width
Price: No longer made, was $225 list new.
While the Octopus only does switching, an optional accessory, the Loop Selector
allows up to 8 mono loops. Price was $79.00 each for Loop Selectors
Jim Dunlop has taken over manufacturing of Scholz R & D products but isn't
making any of these particuliar units at this time.
Rocktron/Bob Bradshaw RSB-12 and RSB-16 loop switchers
These were the first production models of Bradshaw's units manufactured by
Rocktron. They have a 2 rack space panel with 6 and 10 loops respectively
all with active buffereing and a master VCA that is controlled via a remote
volume pedal. A large pedal board is included that has a dedicated harness
to connect to the rack unit. These do have midi capability although most
of the original Bradshaw units did not.
User comments: I seem to recall that it had 11 loops and a Hush loop,
plus 4 control switches [so 16 switches total].
The thing also had a programmable VCA
as you mentioned, and another stereo nonprogrammable Hush.
The pedalboard ["RSB16F"] allowed 5 presets of
on/off's for 16 switches per bank. I can't recall
if it allowed 20 or 25 banks.
The original Bradshaw systems were just remote on/off switches
in a pedalbox communicating with a box containing switchers/loopers.
Later ones allowed combination-preset capabilities. Then Rocktron-manufactured
ones included MIDI. I'm pretty sure there were many versions
here and there because pre-Rocktron stuff were all custom-made.
I've seen Yngwie still using one of the 1st generation Bradshaw
system at a recent concert.
Lab System Plus: no information
Kitty Hawk: no information
Another great switcher was built by a European company called
Exef. Their "Looper" system, which was similar to
the Boogie matrix switcher, was huge. They built a rackmount,
programmable amp that contained a mini version of the Looper.
I think it was called something like PSE1000, and it was also big
[though not as big as the PS Systems' monster]. They also made
a bunch of simple MIDI pedals to control them.
There's also a crazy midi switcher built by a
Japanese company that switches/mixes pickups
using special wiring harness, in addition
to more standard looping/switching external
devices. It actually allowed presets on the pedalboard
that instantly switched pickups as well. I think it's the same company
that used to make a little onboard switch that did amp-channel-switching.
This was 2-3 yrs ago. Have to dig up some old infosheets.
DW Labs makes a 5-loop remote switcher which is
just that and nothing fancy. It's called
Quick Change Artist.
Rolls also made a 4x4 switcher/looper sometime ago
called Patchwork. Their "Midiwizard" pedal was
great that it had 8 cv pedal inputs.i
Also, a tech named Pete Cornish in England
have been doing these for a long time. His
routers are like Bradshaw's, though he's
made much bigger ones (24+ channels). But
an honorable mention should include his pedalboards.
He builds a gigantic microprocessor-controlled
pedalboard that contains pedal switches & knobs
for whatever 'effect boxes/pedals' that you supply
to him, and also remote switches to control outboard
gear. For a long time, Lou Reed and David Gilmour
used gigantic Cornish systems.
Another honorable mention should go to the 5
loops included in a delay unit called
"2290" by TC Electronic. 4 were mono,
and 1 stereo. I can't remember if the
mono loops also included programmable
filters or not, but they were placed
pre-DDL. This was around '87.
Midi Pedals
There a large variety of what I'll call "generic" midi pedals. By generic
I mean that they send one program change on one midi channel at a time.
Most have a row of 4-10 buttons to move to the desired number. Manufacturers
include ADA, Rolls, Scholz, Roland, Yamaha and probably 10 others that I've
forgotten.
The other group are pedals that will send multiple midi messages on multiple
midi channels at when pushing only one switch. These messages can include
controller messages (required on some company switchers), program changes
and, on some pedalboards, any message that is in the midi 1.0 specification.
Digital Music Ground Control
List price: $250.00
Controller inputs: 2
Number of buttons: 10
Number of banks: 10
Display allows alpha messages?:yes
Individual switches for controlling each loop?:no
Number of midi channels it can send on:8
Can send more than program changes: yes
Lake Butler Midi Mitigator RFC-1
List price: $395.00
Controller inputs: 1
Number of buttons: 8
Number of banks:99
Display allows
Individual switches for controlling each loop?:no
Number of midi channels it can send on:16
Can send more than program changes: yes
Also has a set mode to allow 3 different song lists that can programmed in
any order desired out of the main memory.
The continuous controller input requires 75Kohm pedal. Most pedals are 10K
such as the Roland EV-5.
Lake Butler still has an answering machine but is no longer producing products
to my knowledge.
Rocktron All Access
List price: $899.00
Controller inputs: 2
Number of buttons: 18 buttons, 15 for real time control,3 for bank select and
programming.
Display allows alpha messages?:yes
Individual switches for controlling each loop?: yes
Number of midi channels it can send on: 16
Can send more than program changes: yes
Rocktron Midi Mate
List price: $399.00
Controller inputs: 1
Number of buttons: 12
Number of banks:12
Display allows alpha messages?:yes
Individual switches for controlling each loop?:yes
Number of midi channels it can send onsimultaneously: 4 on version 1.0,
6 on version 2.0
Can send more than program changes: unknown
Custom Audio Electronics RS-10
List price: $699.00
Controller inputs: 2
Number of buttons: 10 switches for control messages,
4 preset buttons,2 bank up/down buttons.
Each expander adds 6 control msg switches
and 2 preset buttons.
Number of banks:2 banks of 4 presets [standard configuration].
With one expander, 22 banks of 6 presets.
Display allows alpha messages?: no
Individual switches for controlling each loop?: yes
Number of midi channels it can send on: 16
Can send more than program changes: yes
Digitech PMC-10
List price: $299.00
Controller inputs: 2
Number of buttons:10
Number of banks:99
Display allows alpha messages?:unknown
Individual switches for controlling each loop?: no
Number of midi channels it can send on: 16
Can send more than program changes: yes
A/B boxes and multi-amp selectors:
DOD A/B box: The least expensive passive box out there. Uses mechanical relays
and can cause line pops when signal is present. Price: around $29.00
Whirlwind Selector: does A/B or A + B. List price is around $99.00. Battery
powered and has no switching noise.
Egnator SC-4 Simulcab: Allows one amplifier head to be sent to one of 4 speaker
cabinets via midi control. Price: $399
Custom Audio Electronics Amp Selector I. Allows 4 heads to be switched to one
cabinet. Price is $999
Custom Audio Electronics Amp Selector II. Allows 1 guitar to be routed to any
or all of 4 amps. Price is $499.
Custom Audio Electronics Amp Selector II. Allows 1 guitar to be routed to any
or all of 4 amps and also includeds 8 switches for doing channel switching.
Price is $799.
Allan Holdsworth "Harness II". This is a level reducing box for running
an amplifier power section. The power is reduced to line level for use with
effects devices. There is no cabinet simulation or EQ.
Rocktron Juice Extractor. This is the "first try" that Allan Holdsworth
developed for dropping down a power amp. It has passive resistors and
3 band EQ with parametric mids for shapeing the sound for recording.
Mesa Pro High Gain Amp Switcher.
Number of loops: 4
Loops are stereo capable?: no (you'd have to use 2 loops at a time)
Number of switches: 0
MIDI control method: just has 4 short-to-ground jacks
Size: 1 rack space
Price: approximately $500 direct
Other: uses opto-isolators, buffered analog Jensen matching transformers.
Intended for use with TriAxis which has 4 function switchjacks that can
be controlled via MIDI. Loops can be active simultaneously if you want.
(Information from Robyn Landers)
Mixers and other return devices:
Rane SM-26
Passac mixer
Very nice mixers. They made an 8ch version and
a bigger 16ch version that had sends and eq's per
channel. At one time (mid 80's) Bob Bradshaw
recommended using them in big guitar rigs.
Since then, he came up with his own, simpler designs
which sound pretty clean, probably mostly due to
lack of input gain controls, eq's or send/return's.
Custom Audio Electronics Sub Mixer
Digital Music Corporation System Mix
1 rack space high, half width sub mixer. Each loop has a minimum of
controls (no individual volumes or eq etc). $300.00 list
Digital Music Corporation System Mix Plus
1 rack space, full width with stereo line mixer, cabinet simulator,
headphone amp with direct and monitor levels, MIDI controlled VCA
and XLR stereo balanced outs. Front to back feeds for audio and
midi. Price: $499.00 list
Rocktron Rack Interface
Same features as System Mix Plus but also includes a midi controlled
wah-wah. List prices is $659.00
Manufacturers:
Custom Audio Electronics (818)763-8898
10648 Magnolia Blvd
North Hollywood, CA 91601
Digital Music Corporation (818)991-3881
5312-J Derry Ave
Agoura HIlls, CA 91301
Egnator Amplification (810)399-6208
25550 Colleen St
Oak Park, MI 48237
Rocktron (313)853-3055
2870 Technology Way
Rochester Hills, MI 48309
Unknown
*All tech stuff deleted*
Three cheers for Gary! You are definately the Midi/Audio switching
king. One correction:
The Digital Music Ground Control midi foot controller will now switch
each loop in and out individually. (With version 2 software) Iv'e got
one, and love it.
I don't know why more people aren't using midi audio switching.
Correct me if I'm wrong but.....
Isn't this a common scenario? (Beginning of tangent)
Your'e playing a nice crunching rythym, OK.
Then you take a lead break. I like to stomp on a little screamer, and
maybe a little digital delay. I even like to channel switch one amp
for a little more kick.
How you gonna do all that in one fell swoop? (Sammy Davis jr tap dance
maybe?)
Then when your'e done with the lead, switch it all back. That's the
beauty of midi audio switching.
Maybe I'm the only one with this problem. I don't know. Let the sound
guy mess with this?? Don't worry so much about it?
How are YOU dealing with this?? (End of tangent)..........
gary watts
Doug () wrote:
: Three cheers for Gary! You are definately the Midi/Audio switching
: king. One correction:
: The Digital Music Ground Control midi foot controller will now switch
: each loop in and out individually. (With version 2 software) Iv'e got
: one, and love it.
Noted.
: I don't know why more people aren't using midi audio switching.
: Correct me if I'm wrong but.....
A lot more than you think are. For all the rack bashing these days,
90% of the pros have a audio switcher for all the pedals and channel
switching etc. The reason is exactly what you mention here:
: Your'e playing a nice crunching rythym, OK.
: Then you take a lead break. I like to stomp on a little screamer, and
: maybe a little digital delay. I even like to channel switch one amp
: for a little more kick.
: How you gonna do all that in one fell swoop? (Sammy Davis jr tap dance
: maybe?)
: Maybe I'm the only one with this problem. I don't know. Let the sound
: guy mess with this?? Don't worry so much about it?
Doing this transparently and at the correct time is not easy. I personally
use a Rocktron Patchmate and a Lake Butler Midi Mitigator pedal.
Gary Watts
Roberto Bayardo
>Rocktron Midi Mate
>List price: $399.00
>Controller inputs: 1
>Number of buttons: 12
>Number of banks:12
>Display allows alpha messages?:yes
>Individual switches for controlling each loop?:yes
>Number of midi channels it can send onsimultaneously: 4 on version 1.0,
> 6 on version 2.0
>Can send more than program changes: unknown
Yes, the Rocktron Midi Mate can send more than program changes.
However, there appears to be a problem with it when you attempt to
send program change and controller messages at the same time.
The problem is that when you hit a button that is programmed to send
both a program change message along with controller messages,
the controller messages get ignored. Actually, they get ignored
if I'm using a Rocktron Intellifex LTD or Replifex. If I'm using a
Quadraverb, they take effect randomly with about 50% probability,
which is even more annoying.
I'm wondering how people work around this, or if Rocktron has come up
with a new ROM to fix the bug. Mine says "Version 2.0" when I turn it
on.
My current work around is to simply not send program changes, and only
use controller messages to manipulate sounds. But this requires I use
a single patch which can handle all effects (Rev, delay, chorus),
while I'd like to use a dedicated reverb patch at times for improved
reverb quality.
Ignoring this one problem, the unit is very well designed. It's also
relatively compact, which I've really come to appreciate.
gary watts
Roberto Bayardo (bay...@cs.utexas.edu) wrote:
: The problem is that when you hit a button that is programmed to send
: both a program change message along with controller messages,
: the controller messages get ignored. Actually, they get ignored
: if I'm using a Rocktron Intellifex LTD or Replifex. If I'm using a
: Quadraverb, they take effect randomly with about 50% probability,
: which is even more annoying.
I recently upgraded my Quadraverb 2 to version 2.0 software. Here,
you have to send controller information to get the correct bank selected.
The manual says that if the controller change is first in the data stream
that it will be recognized. However, I have had very inconsistent results
with sending the bank info this way, less than 50%.
I finally just moved all the programs to the same bank and overwrote the
originals.
Gary Watts
Sandy Siegel-O'Malley
> >Rocktron Midi Mate
> >List price: $399.00
> >Controller inputs: 1
> >Number of buttons: 12
> >Number of banks:12
> >Display allows alpha messages?:yes
> >Individual switches for controlling each loop?:yes
> >Number of midi channels it can send onsimultaneously: 4 on version 1.0,
> > 6 on version 2.0
> >Can send more than program changes: unknown
> However, there appears to be a problem with it when you attempt to
> send program change and controller messages at the same time.
> both a program change message along with controller messages,
> the controller messages get ignored. Actually, they get ignored
> if I'm using a Rocktron Intellifex LTD or Replifex. If I'm using a
> Quadraverb, they take effect randomly with about 50% probability,
> which is even more annoying.
> with a new ROM to fix the bug. Mine says "Version 2.0" when I turn it
> on.
> My current work around is to simply not send program changes, and only
> use controller messages to manipulate sounds. But this requires I use
> a single patch which can handle all effects (Rev, delay, chorus),
> while I'd like to use a dedicated reverb patch at times for improved
> reverb quality.
> Ignoring this one problem, the unit is very well designed. It's also
> relatively compact, which I've really come to appreciate.