Fixing hairline cracks
Mark Bedingfield
pocket? My old Squier has one and now my relatively new Squier now has
one. Which is odd because I treat it with mucho kid gloves. Hmm,
matching cracks.
Anyway I just want to stop them getting bigger, any ideas fellas and
falless's?
Mark
The Repair Guy
wrote:
>What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline
>crack at the neck pocket?
Finish or wood/finish?
The Repair Guy
repairguy1993 dot netfirms dot com
Keith Adams
Drilling a tiny hole at the leading end of the crack will stop it. You then
need to fill it and try to get some wood glue into the crack.
"Mark Bedingfield" <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
message news:476319f0$0$5200$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
The Repair Guy
>Never heard of it happening before Mark.
It happens quite a bit, Keith.
>Mark Bedingfield wrote...
>> What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline crack at the neck
>> pocket? My old Squier has one and now my relatively new Squier now has
>> one. Which is odd because I treat it with mucho kid gloves. Hmm, matching
>> cracks.
>> Anyway I just want to stop them getting bigger, any ideas fellas and
>> falless's?
>>
>> Mark
>
Mark Bedingfield
> Mark Bedingfield <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline
>> crack at the neck pocket?
>
> Finish or wood/finish?
Just the finish from what I can see RG.
Mark
Mark Bedingfield
> Never heard of it happening before Mark. Where at in the neck pocket.
> Drilling a tiny hole at the leading end of the crack will stop it. You then
> need to fill it and try to get some wood glue into the crack.
Its pretty common on Strats and Teles. It usually happens if the fit is
a little too snug, I'd guess.
Mark
Mark Bedingfield
> Never heard of it happening before Mark. Where at in the neck pocket.
> Drilling a tiny hole at the leading end of the crack will stop it. You then
> need to fill it and try to get some wood glue into the crack.
Found a reasonable example;
http://www.jemsite.com/tech/img/neck_surfacecrack1.jpg
Mark
~Hippy
brothers used diabetic needles with either glue or a clear to fill and wipe
off the excess...it seem to work for me untill I got it to a qualified
Luthier...both of them told me it wasnt a totally bad idea...but be careful
on what you use..
~Hippy
Jim
If it's a finish crack, CA (cyanoacrylate -- super glue) might stabilize
it. See http://tinyurl.com/eskcl But I might try and even thinner CA
applied with a straight pin right on the crack. Try StewMac item number
0010.
Tony Done
Flood with superglue from the *inside* of the pocket to stabilise the timber
that might be cracked, then apply the same very sparingly to the outside and
scrape/sand/polish back to stabilise the finish crack. This won't hide it,
and it only works really well on poly, superglue reacts with nitrocellulose,
so the seam may show after polishing.
Tony D
Keith Adams
mean it instead of your feminine little bitch method. For example. Andy you
simple minded fuck.. I've forgotten more about guitars than you'll ever
know. Stop acting like a little girl with your sniping.
"Andy" <n...@spam.no> wrote in message
news:no-C0846A.13...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> In article <47632df4$0$7238$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> Mark Bedingfield <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Keith Adams wrote:
>> > Never heard of it happening before Mark.
>
> Not overly surprising.
>
>> Its pretty common on Strats and Teles. It usually happens if the fit is
>> a little too snug, I'd guess.
>
> Yep. Seen plenty of 'em. I'd try cyano (Superglue(tm)) if it's really
> bothering you.
>
> Just drop a little over the area and wipe off all the excess. Then
> repeat if you feel the need. They shouldn't really get much bigger
> regardless.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy.
Keith Adams
or they've been taken in and out too many times and have gotten sloppy in
the holes. It was obviously cause by a side to side motion. If you dont do
something to keep the neck from shifting then no amount of glue is going to
fix it. Wood slivers in the screw holes would take care of the slop but
you're right. I think the neck is too tight in the pocket also. Since its
easier to take a little material off of the neck I'd do that. You can take
enough off just by hand sanding the sides of the neck where they touch the
pocket. Just the thickness of the finish would probably work.? Bare wood is
never good but on that part of the neck you should be alright. Its the end
grain on the very end of the neck that you dont want bare. It will absorb
moisture much easier than the side grains.
"Mark Bedingfield" <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
message news:476319f0$0$5200$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Keith Adams
"Andy" <n...@spam.no> wrote in message
news:no-3E77BD.14...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> In article <47634729$0$11037$4c36...@roadrunner.com>,
> "Keith Adams" <keith...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> I've forgotten more about guitars than you'll ever know.
>
> You mean like how to properly glue a multi-piece body together? ;-)
>
>
> And a good day to you sir,
>
> Andy.
Mark Bedingfield
> Mark. It looks to me like the screws that hold the neck on were either loose
> or they've been taken in and out too many times and have gotten sloppy in
> the holes. It was obviously cause by a side to side motion. If you dont do
> something to keep the neck from shifting then no amount of glue is going to
> fix it. Wood slivers in the screw holes would take care of the slop but
> you're right. I think the neck is too tight in the pocket also. Since its
> easier to take a little material off of the neck I'd do that. You can take
> enough off just by hand sanding the sides of the neck where they touch the
> pocket. Just the thickness of the finish would probably work.? Bare wood is
> never good but on that part of the neck you should be alright. Its the end
> grain on the very end of the neck that you dont want bare. It will absorb
> moisture much easier than the side grains.
Its only a crack in the finish tho, not the wood itself. Just got all
the guitars in this arvo after rehearsal and it actually could be due to
the fact the Tele is in a soft case. It may have coped a bang in
transit. Next priority is a couple of hard cases me thinks. The Strat is
just age, its nearly 20 years old, so tbh I sorta expect that. I'm not
overly worried. For now I'll just hem it up with Superglue. Seeing a
mate tomorrow who is diabetic, might pinch a syringe for the job.
Cheers guys
mark
Brian Hill
http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm
Brian Hill
PS, I know you just want to fix the crack but you'll still have problems
over time with that finish cracking and the time you invest just repairing
it you could have a proper finnish and it isnt hard.
BH
Keith Adams
the wood under it is cracked. About the only finish damage you're going to
find on poly after normal use will be chips knocked out of it. If you think
its just a finish crack ( its not if its anything similar to the picture)
then dont put any super glue on it. Theres no reason to and it will just
make a mess. If and when you get around to gluing it then use wood glue. It
cleans up with a damp rag and is stronger than super glue. Super glue isnt
worth shit on wood.
It works alright for real small fixes but thats it.
"Mark Bedingfield" <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
message news:476319f0$0$5200$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
WB
squire ? lesser of a big deal.
Squier
yeah - those finish cracks at the neck pocket on the body
are really common. It seems as soon as you squeeze in a nice
tight neck that a little crack or sometimes a little chunk pops
out from the exterior paint finish.
All I have ever done is apply some clear nail polish really
lightly and then take a piece of cellophane or plastic and smooth it
and leave it alone and let it dry and set. if you use any cloth or
paper or whatever the nail polish grabs the fibers and makes it a mess.
The plastic lets me take the little dab of nail polish and just smooth
it over (like a mini trowel smoothing out a mini line of cement)
Anyways - that's what I do. I guess if you are particular you could
try to use nail polish that best matches the finish or just take a small
dab of oil paint and mix it in with the nail polish (the toulene in nail
polish will keep the pain pigments suspended and the nail polish acts
sorta like super glue to make sure it bonds to the slick poly finish)
ok - that's what i do when those little neck area cracks happen.
Fixes them permanately (unless you want to go shimmying out the
tight neck again and fiddling around with it)
Squier
Keith - for some reason it happens to Fender's a lot.
It is like the poly coat is hard and brittle and when
you try to put in a neck that fits super tight into the
body neck pocket then when you are jimmying the neck back
and forth or pushing in it stresses the body finish right
there at the pocket area and hairline cracks it or sometimes
a little chip actually pops out. It is common but the only
time it seems to happen (with me anyways) is on Fenders and Squiers.
When you take off the neck and look at the body pocket you can
actually see the finish - it is like hard icing laid on top of the body.
But it only happens (to me) with the poly finishes.
However - no real harm or foul - the wood itself doesn't split or crack -
just the finish. I guess the Fender poly finishes are not that pliable
or elastic like. If you put in a neck that fits perfectly or one that
can just set in or slide in then no problem - it's those real tight
fitting ones where you have to work a little to get them in (really
nice tight fit) that can do the fracture of the finish.
Squier
Yeah - agreed - I gave advice to mark based on it being a finish crack.
If indeed it turns out to be an actual wood crack then forget any
nail polish or super glue. You'd be best off to use carpenter's glue
to fill in wood crack underneath (if it's there) and then let dry and
then top off with the nail polish (or paint) to approximate the poly finish.
Mark Bedingfield
Sigh.
mark
Squier
what ? if it's a nice guitar and great player
then it doesn't matter what's on the headstock.
it deserves to be fixed if Mark wants to patch it.
The Repair Guy
>>> What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline
>>> crack at the neck pocket?
>>
>> Finish or wood/finish?
>
>Just the finish from what I can see RG.
If it's just in the clear, dab a little clear (or superglue)
in the crack, let it dry/harden, wet sand, level, rub out.
If it's all the way through a color coat, it's more of a
PITA.
mirt54
Is this stewmac "super glue" like what you buy in a hardware store? I
haven't used superglue in a number of years, but when I did superglue
instructions recommended its use on non-pourous materials, not wood.
My question is since this is a hairline crack, It would be difficult
to get wood or carpenter's glue thoroughly into such a small crack due
to its thick consistency. Can it (the wood glue) be thinned, or would
this weaken the adhesiveness of the glue? This is a general question,
Mark, I realize your post is actually intended to fix the non-pourous
finish-only type crack. I think wood glue would be too thick for a
syringe(sp?) and I'm wondering how to get full coverage of thick wood
glue into a hairline wood crack? Marty
Jim
> In article <47634729$0$11037$4c36...@roadrunner.com>,
> "Keith Adams" <keith...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
And how you can't tell the difference in tone in a solid body made out
of balsa or Honduran Mahogany???
Jim
First of all, I really think this is a surface crack. All super glue
isn't created equally. They have different consistencies and different
drying times. I'd think you'd want thin consistency, and longer drying
time for smoothing and leveling. Hardware stuff is often very fast curing.
jd
>
> how you can't tell the difference in tone in a solid body made out
> of balsa or Honduran Mahogany???
Or pressed cardboard from toothpick shaving ?
WB
>
> Sigh.
>
Elrewine uses super glue on everything. Be a good investment
for future repairs. Check out Steward-Mac how to's.
Look, I'm sorry if paint doesn't bond to pressed wood better than that,
but at worse they are only surface cracks, and since it occurring
on 100 % of your rare collection ... I'd say it is a known defect with
*shitty guitars painted with water based paints* .
--> If your two Eric Clapton $4500 Custom shop models peeled maybe
it would be a more interesting topic.
Besides , with cracks you can call it *vintage worn* to the next owner
and then upgrade to an Epiphone ;)
Mark Bedingfield
I'm gonna have to ask, much as it pains me. How can you tell what kind
of wood an electric guitar is made from by the sound?
Mark
Mark Bedingfield
> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>
> Elrewine uses super glue on everything. Be a good investment
> for future repairs. Check out Steward-Mac how to's.
Will do.
>
> Look, I'm sorry if paint doesn't bond to pressed wood better than that,
> but at worse they are only surface cracks, and since it occurring
> on 100 % of your rare collection ... I'd say it is a known defect with
> *shitty guitars painted with water based paints* .
It happens to lots of different bolt on neck type guitars. I'd also
think it can happen to *any* bolt on neck type body. Both guitars are
poly finish. Are you suggesting it will never happen to an expensive
guitar? BTW these guitars are rare, they are heavily customised;-) I
have 9 guitars and these are only two with cracks, so it isn't 100%
either. My Fender Strat is not old enough to contract the disease.
>
> --> If your two Eric Clapton $4500 Custom shop models peeled maybe
> it would be a more interesting topic.
Why? Its poly too. Same as my Squier's. It can and most likely does
happen to EC Strats. I'd quite happily put my 1990 MIK Squier
Stratocaster up against a US Strat, its neck plays like buttah, it has
US hardware (as standard), SD pups and US electronics anyway. They
didn't peel either, its a hairline finish crack. Notice the picture I
posted was a Ibanez Jem too, not a cheapy.
>
> Besides , with cracks you can call it *vintage worn* to the next owner
> and then upgrade to an Epiphone ;)
Because they don't make poly bolt on neck models? I'm not keen on
shorter scales and weirdo pups. Gimme 3 SC's and 25.5" scales anyday,
also the comfort of a Strat with original contoured body. Besides the
weight of an LP would have to be crippling over time;-)
The MIK Squier will be buried with me too;-) Its an amazing guitar. As
good as any I've ever played.
Mark
Nil
> First of all, I really think this is a surface crack.
Me, too. It looks exactly like the crack on my Strat (but not as bad.)
The Repair Guy
>Is this stewmac "super glue" like what you buy in a
>hardware store?
Yes. I use Duro brand, available at (you guessed it)
Walmart. I've used different brands, and haven't
noticed any functional difference.
>I haven't used superglue in a number of years, but
>when I did superglue instructions recommended its
>use on non-pourous materials, not wood.
You can use superglue to saturate the wood so
it's no longer porous.
>My question is since this is a hairline crack, It would
>be difficult to get wood or carpenter's glue thoroughly
>into such a small crack due to its thick consistency.
>Can it (the wood glue) be thinned, or would this
>weaken the adhesiveness of the glue?
Yes, wood glue can be thinned. Yes, it will lose
strength, but it will still be strong enough. We're not
talking about supporting hundreds of pounds here...
The Repair Guy
--snip--
>All super glue isn't created equally. They have
>different consistencies and different drying times.
>I'd think you'd want thin consistency, and longer
>drying time for smoothing and leveling.
>Hardware stuff is often very fast curing.
My approach is to smooth & level it after it's cured.
The Repair Guy
>> All super glue isn't created equally. They have
>> different consistencies and different drying times.
>> I'd think you'd want thin consistency, and longer
>> drying time for smoothing and leveling.
>> Hardware stuff is often very fast curing.
>
>Yep. And don't use any kind of accelerant.
Sacrilege! :-) There are two ways to go - smooth it
while wet, which can make a mess, or smooth it
after it's cured, which is more work but will level
better. I use plan B.
The Repair Guy
>I'm gonna have to ask, much as it pains me.
>How can you tell what kind of wood an electric guitar
>is made from by the sound?
Short answer: you can't. There are general differences
between woods, but there are also differences using
the same wood - no two pieces are identical, etc.
Even Keith could tell hard rock maple from basswood
by sound, but less extreme differences are masked
by other variables - bridge, pickups, etc., etc.
Mark Bedingfield
> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>
>>>> What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline
>>>> crack at the neck pocket?
>>> Finish or wood/finish?
>> Just the finish from what I can see RG.
>
> If it's just in the clear, dab a little clear (or superglue)
> in the crack, let it dry/harden, wet sand, level, rub out.
> If it's all the way through a color coat, it's more of a
> PITA.
The cracks really are hairline, I'd doubt I could get a needle point
into them. I super glued a couple of dings in the Tele just to prevent
the paint chipping any further and it did the job well, just lightly
sanded then buffed when I was done.
Mark
Mark Bedingfield
Yeah, you might be able to tell a difference between 2 extremes in one
given situation - sometimes. But I'd seriously doubt anyone could listen
to a guitar and say yeah, thats alder. My ply body Squier is a bit
weighty, but the guitars tone overall is really warm and a little broody
(best way I can describe it) but is also 100% Strat jangly glass. I've
had people ask if it as ash. It ain't, its Alder ply. But it still
sounds shit hot, and plays a dream too.
Personally I think you can have a nice resonant body and get lucky out
of near any kind of wood, also you could get something that sounds
deader than an ancient Norse religion. Its all down to weight and
density imo. Some woods that should be heavy and dense just aren't.
Conversely the same can apply. But yes generally the basic rules usually
apply. That being said the S9 Squiers have a reputation of sounding good
(pickups aside) and afaik they were all ply.
In other words play the guitar and see if you like it;-) Its the only
way to find out if its any good. My 2c.
Mark
The Repair Guy
>Yeah, you might be able to tell a difference between
>2 extremes in one given situation - sometimes. But
>I'd seriously doubt anyone could listen to a guitar
>and say yeah, thats alder.
I'd like to see some double-blind tests done.
Let these people who claim to be able to hear the
difference between, say, ash & alder put their $$
where their mouths are.
>Its all down to weight and density imo.
I haven't found much correlation. I bought a rock
maple (hard & dense) strat body, thinking it would
be bright and lively, sustain for days, etc. It was
bright enough, I guess, but a friend of mine made
a strat body out of pine - pine! - that sustained
better.
>In other words play the guitar and see if you like it;-)
>Its the only way to find out if its any good. My 2c.
Yup.
Don Evans
The Repair Guy wrote:
> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>
>> Yeah, you might be able to tell a difference between
>> 2 extremes in one given situation - sometimes. But
>> I'd seriously doubt anyone could listen to a guitar
>> and say yeah, thats alder.
>
> I'd like to see some double-blind tests done.
> Let these people who claim to be able to hear the
> difference between, say, ash & alder put their $$
> where their mouths are.
Good idea ... you should set that up ... all you have to do is have the
ability to exchange an ash body for an alder body with no other changes.
;-)
I'm sure you know as well as anyone that different woods just have different
characteristics, not specific sounds. Lots of other factors can affect
tone, but when most, if not all, the guys building these nice guitars ...
Anderson, Suhr, Paul Reed Smith, to name a few .. say that certain wood
types are likely to sound a certain way, I, for one, believe them. YMMV.
Don
Mark Bedingfield
> The Repair Guy wrote:
>> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, you might be able to tell a difference between
>>> 2 extremes in one given situation - sometimes. But
>>> I'd seriously doubt anyone could listen to a guitar
>>> and say yeah, thats alder.
>> I'd like to see some double-blind tests done.
>> Let these people who claim to be able to hear the
>> difference between, say, ash & alder put their $$
>> where their mouths are.
>
> Good idea ... you should set that up ... all you have to do is have the
> ability to exchange an ash body for an alder body with no other changes.
> ;-)
> I'm sure you know as well as anyone that different woods just have different
> characteristics, not specific sounds. Lots of other factors can affect
> tone, but when most, if not all, the guys building these nice guitars ...
> Anderson, Suhr, Paul Reed Smith, to name a few .. say that certain wood
> types are likely to sound a certain way, I, for one, believe them. YMMV.
<snip>
Generally I'm sure you're right. But getting exactly the same piece of
timber twice is impossible. Nature won't let you;-) Also you can get
heavier slabs of alder or lighter slabs of mahogany etc, etc. All I'm
saying is there is too much variation for it to be an exact science. For
example could you tell a MIJ basswood Strat for and MIA Alder Strat with
the same running gear just buy listening? If ply always sounds like shit
why doesn't mine? Its pretty much the same setup as a 62 Strat and it
sounds like one too.
Mark
Don Evans
Ah, but here's the problem. Not every 62 Strat sounded the same ... not
even then. All this wood stuff is generalizations, and if you take it to be
more than that, you run into trouble. I don't, for instance, believe that
glue joints are necessarily a bad thing, nor do I lust after one piece necks
or bodies.
The basic problem with your question is that you can't guarantee the same
running gear, since you are not using the same piece of wood for your neck
either. I think the size/thickness of the neck has probably as much or more
to do with sustain (for instance) as the body wood type. I do think, and
I've proved it to myself, that if you change ONLY the body on a Strat to a
different wood, it will sound different, and in my case, the difference was
as predicted by the wood mavens.
When I changed pickups I heard a significant difference, and when I changed
the neck for one with a different fingerboard (all on the same guitar, by
the way) I also heard a difference, but not nearly as much.
If your plywood Strat sounds as good as a good 62, then you are a lucky man.
Don
Mark Bedingfield
Oh so true Don. No 2 pups were the same in those days, but my analogy
was between modern MIJ and MIA similar weight bodies etc and I would
think the current staple of US pups would have very little variation.
>
> The basic problem with your question is that you can't guarantee the same
> running gear, since you are not using the same piece of wood for your neck
> either. I think the size/thickness of the neck has probably as much or more
> to do with sustain (for instance) as the body wood type. I do think, and
> I've proved it to myself, that if you change ONLY the body on a Strat to a
> different wood, it will sound different, and in my case, the difference was
> as predicted by the wood mavens.
If you did that with hundreds of bits of wood and the result was ALWAYS
the same I'd agree;-) But 2 bodies does not make for a solid conclusion.
It just means two bodies had different effects on the resultant tone.
Jury's still out I think;-) Also could a guitarist off the street tell
you what wood is what by just listening? I just don't think so.
>
> When I changed pickups I heard a significant difference, and when I changed
> the neck for one with a different fingerboard (all on the same guitar, by
> the way) I also heard a difference, but not nearly as much.
>
> If your plywood Strat sounds as good as a good 62, then you are a lucky man.
As far as S9's go apparently luck has nothing to do with it. It seems to
be the general concencus rather than a rare anomoly. I'd buy another in
a heartbeat if I stumbled upon one. White Spirit has a couple iirc too.
I'm not discounting what you say, generally I agree. I just think there
is more to it is all. I'll say this, the tone on my MIJ Alder Strat is
far brighter than my MIK ply Strat but in this case its more to do with
pups. Yes the bodies have an influence on it, the sustain is about the
same on both and the ply Strat has more glassy tone to it. Pups I'm sure
as far as glass is concerned. I think the sustain is more effected by
the tremolo tho.
The MIJ has a 1 piece maple neck (compound rad and quite thick - us
spec) and the MIK 2 piece rosewood fretboard (12" rad and a fair bit
thinner). Same pots (CTS), same switches (CRL) but different pups, tho
made the same way (by hand) using the same ingredients.I really wish I
had the time and strings to sit down and chop and change to see how it
all works out. Here's the guts of my opinion;
Generally you will get brighter sounds from lighter bodies, brighter
sounds from maple fretboards (don't ask me why, I just noticed it,
that's all;-) and more neck pain from LP's;-)
But like all things that rely on nature, none of these rules apply 100%
of the time. The fact that the S9's sound so good (after the MIK pups
are piffed) just ruins the whole argument. Even with the original pups,
which are akin to modern MIM pups, it wasn't terrible either tbh. Just a
bit bland. I dunno mate, I dunno.....
Mark
Don Evans
I completely agree that you can't tell what wood is in a guitar by listening
... there are just too many other variables.
>> When I changed pickups I heard a significant difference, and when I
>> changed the neck for one with a different fingerboard (all on the
>> same guitar, by the way) I also heard a difference, but not nearly
>> as much. If your plywood Strat sounds as good as a good 62, then you are
>> a
>> lucky man.
>
> As far as S9's go apparently luck has nothing to do with it. It seems
> to be the general concencus rather than a rare anomoly. I'd buy
> another in a heartbeat if I stumbled upon one. White Spirit has a
> couple iirc too.
Interestingly enough, plywood is probably more consistent than solid wood.
If you like one, I guess you'll like most of 'em.
> I'm not discounting what you say, generally I agree. I just think
> there is more to it is all. I'll say this, the tone on my MIJ Alder
> Strat is far brighter than my MIK ply Strat but in this case its more
> to do with pups. Yes the bodies have an influence on it, the sustain
> is about the same on both and the ply Strat has more glassy tone to
> it. Pups I'm sure as far as glass is concerned. I think the sustain
> is more effected by the tremolo tho.
The trem is a huge factor ... just ask any G & L owner.
> The MIJ has a 1 piece maple neck (compound rad and quite thick - us
> spec) and the MIK 2 piece rosewood fretboard (12" rad and a fair bit
> thinner).
I don't believe any American Fenders come with compound radius necks. MIJs
do? In any case, the thick neck is probably as big or bigger factor in
determining tone and sustain. I had a Gatton Tele for a couple of days.
The neck was a real baseball bat, and the sustain was unreal. Huge mid/high
response from the guitar acoustically and electrically. I mention acoustic
response because, of course, the Bardens are heavy on the mid/high response
as well.
>Same pots (CTS), same switches (CRL) but different pups, tho
> made the same way (by hand) using the same ingredients.I really wish I
> had the time and strings to sit down and chop and change to see how it
> all works out. Here's the guts of my opinion;
>
> Generally you will get brighter sounds from lighter bodies, brighter
> sounds from maple fretboards (don't ask me why, I just noticed it,
> that's all;-) and more neck pain from LP's;-)
Agreed on the neck pain part. ;-) I find the thickness and hardness of
the neck wood matters as much or more than the actual fingerboard type.
>
> But like all things that rely on nature, none of these rules apply
> 100% of the time. The fact that the S9's sound so good (after the MIK
> pups are piffed) just ruins the whole argument. Even with the
> original pups, which are akin to modern MIM pups, it wasn't terrible
> either tbh. Just a bit bland. I dunno mate, I dunno.....
>
> Mark
I think there are a couple of factors here. The S9s actually just support
an argument that that particular type of ply, from that particular
manufacturer makes a good body, similar to some "solid" wood bodies. The
fact that you compare it to a '62 and not a '57 means to me that it sounds
more like alder. Another factor is taste ... not everyone likes the same
sound, and it seems you like the sound of those guitars. Back to chocolate
and vanilla ... neither is right. Sounds to me like you just have found
another great choice.
Don
The Repair Guy
>The Repair Guy wrote:
>> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, you might be able to tell a difference between
>>> 2 extremes in one given situation - sometimes. But
>>> I'd seriously doubt anyone could listen to a guitar
>>> and say yeah, thats alder.
>>
>> I'd like to see some double-blind tests done.
>> Let these people who claim to be able to hear the
>> difference between, say, ash & alder put their $$
>> where their mouths are.
>
>Good idea ... you should set that up ... all you have
>to do is have the ability to exchange an ash body
>for an alder body with no other changes. ;-)
It's doable. It wouldn't have to be a quick change -
you could record a part with one body wood, then
swap the neck & all the hardware and record the
same part. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard
to eliminate every other variable.
>I'm sure you know as well as anyone that different
>woods just have different characteristics, not
>specific sounds.
Yes. Even two pieces of the SAME wood.
>Lots of other factors can affect tone, but when most,
>if not all, the guys building these nice guitars ...
>Anderson, Suhr, Paul Reed Smith, to name a few ..
>say that certain wood types are likely to sound a
>certain way, I, for one, believe them. YMMV.
If I ever set up the double-blind test, they'd definitely
be invited.
Don Evans
I think there are a lot of folks that would like to see that.
Mark Bedingfield
> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
>>> lucky man.
>> As far as S9's go apparently luck has nothing to do with it. It seems
>> to be the general concencus rather than a rare anomoly. I'd buy
>> another in a heartbeat if I stumbled upon one. White Spirit has a
>> couple iirc too.
>
> Interestingly enough, plywood is probably more consistent than solid wood.
> If you like one, I guess you'll like most of 'em.
No, I have a shitty old plywood Torch and no matter what neck or pup I
put in it it was a tone robbing POS. Again with all this variation in
timber even different plys will be different I guess.
>
>> I'm not discounting what you say, generally I agree. I just think
>> there is more to it is all. I'll say this, the tone on my MIJ Alder
>> Strat is far brighter than my MIK ply Strat but in this case its more
>> to do with pups. Yes the bodies have an influence on it, the sustain
>> is about the same on both and the ply Strat has more glassy tone to
>> it. Pups I'm sure as far as glass is concerned. I think the sustain
>> is more effected by the tremolo tho.
>
> The trem is a huge factor ... just ask any G & L owner.
I blocked the Kahler on my Ibanez clone and mama mia did it make a
difference to the sustain. With an LP bucker in the bridge it is a
veritable paint peeler now.
>
>> The MIJ has a 1 piece maple neck (compound rad and quite thick - us
>> spec) and the MIK 2 piece rosewood fretboard (12" rad and a fair bit
>> thinner).
>
> I don't believe any American Fenders come with compound radius necks. MIJs
> do? In any case, the thick neck is probably as big or bigger factor in
> determining tone and sustain. I had a Gatton Tele for a couple of days.
> The neck was a real baseball bat, and the sustain was unreal. Huge mid/high
> response from the guitar acoustically and electrically. I mention acoustic
> response because, of course, the Bardens are heavy on the mid/high response
> as well.
This MIJ does;-) I was actually referring to the neck shape deep C, sorry.
>
>> Same pots (CTS), same switches (CRL) but different pups, tho
>> made the same way (by hand) using the same ingredients.I really wish I
>> had the time and strings to sit down and chop and change to see how it
>> all works out. Here's the guts of my opinion;
>>
>> Generally you will get brighter sounds from lighter bodies, brighter
>> sounds from maple fretboards (don't ask me why, I just noticed it,
>> that's all;-) and more neck pain from LP's;-)
>
> Agreed on the neck pain part. ;-) I find the thickness and hardness of
> the neck wood matters as much or more than the actual fingerboard type.
>
>> But like all things that rely on nature, none of these rules apply
>> 100% of the time. The fact that the S9's sound so good (after the MIK
>> pups are piffed) just ruins the whole argument. Even with the
>> original pups, which are akin to modern MIM pups, it wasn't terrible
>> either tbh. Just a bit bland. I dunno mate, I dunno.....
>>
>> Mark
>
> I think there are a couple of factors here. The S9s actually just support
> an argument that that particular type of ply, from that particular
> manufacturer makes a good body, similar to some "solid" wood bodies. The
> fact that you compare it to a '62 and not a '57 means to me that it sounds
> more like alder. Another factor is taste ... not everyone likes the same
> sound, and it seems you like the sound of those guitars. Back to chocolate
> and vanilla ... neither is right. Sounds to me like you just have found
> another great choice.
Strangely enough from what I've read the S9's are actually Alder ply. Go
figure. Yup she's a cracker tho;-) I still marvel at it and its been my
gigging guitar when I started playing and its even better now with the
Duncan 57's in it. I refer it more as a 62 mostly because it has a
rosewood fretboard and vintage trem etc the same as a US 62 Strat. Only
real difference is modern US tuners. It is also 43mm across the nut,
same as US standard neck. My singer has a US standard Tele from the same
era and the neck profile is VERY similar.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~startreks/gitar/Strat.JPG
I've enjoyed this discussion. Its like trying to prove religion I
think;-) I very much agree with Repair guy tho, even tones between the
same type of woods can be very different, which was the point I was
sorta driving at.
Mark
Don Evans
Mark Bedingfield wrote:
> Don Evans wrote:
>> Mark Bedingfield wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>> lucky man.
>>> As far as S9's go apparently luck has nothing to do with it. It
>>> seems to be the general concencus rather than a rare anomoly. I'd
>>> buy another in a heartbeat if I stumbled upon one. White Spirit has
>>> a couple iirc too.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, plywood is probably more consistent than solid
>> wood. If you like one, I guess you'll like most of 'em.
>
> No, I have a shitty old plywood Torch and no matter what neck or pup I
> put in it it was a tone robbing POS. Again with all this variation in
> timber even different plys will be different I guess.
Yeah, that is part of what I meant. .. I wasn't clear, but I'm suggesting
that the S9s all have the same type of plywood, and that particular type
works well.
Well, there ya go!
> Go figure. Yup she's a cracker tho;-) I still marvel at it and its
> been my gigging guitar when I started playing and its even better now
> with the Duncan 57's in it. I refer it more as a 62 mostly because it
> has a rosewood fretboard and vintage trem etc the same as a US 62
> Strat. Only real difference is modern US tuners. It is also 43mm
> across the nut, same as US standard neck. My singer has a US standard Tele
> from the
> same era and the neck profile is VERY similar.
>
>
> http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~startreks/gitar/Strat.JPG
>
>
> I've enjoyed this discussion. Its like trying to prove religion I
> think;-) I very much agree with Repair guy tho, even tones between the
> same type of woods can be very different, which was the point I was
> sorta driving at.
>
> Mark
Yeah, me too, and I agree that wood is inconsistent, but I still think
different types have characteristic vibrating qualities. I'm really not
trying to "prove" anything .. just adding my 2 cents worth.
Don
Mark Bedingfield
Me neither;-) It was just an analogy to highlight that you can't prove
an opinion. Looks like we are fundamentally on the same page tho. Nature
wins every time no matter what we intend;-)
Mark
White Spirit
> What's the best way to fix a typical Fender hairline crack at the neck
> pocket? My old Squier has one and now my relatively new Squier now has
> one. Which is odd because I treat it with mucho kid gloves. Hmm,
> matching cracks.
> Anyway I just want to stop them getting bigger, any ideas fellas and
> falless's?
I just leave mine. Technically, it's a relic so it should add another
125% to the value of the guitar. You can't claim it's all original if
you've filled it with superglue. And don't forget, the type of glue
used has a big impact on the sound.
Mark Bedingfield
Lol. Any of yours gone that way WS?
Mark
White Spirit
> White Spirit wrote:
>> I just leave mine. Technically, it's a relic so it should add another
>> 125% to the value of the guitar. You can't claim it's all original if
>> you've filled it with superglue. And don't forget, the type of glue
>> used has a big impact on the sound.
> Lol. Any of yours gone that way WS?
A few. One or two have quite deep cracks in the lacquer, but they've
spread as much as they're going to. I've never been bothered about it.
It's a frequent thing with Stratocasters.
There was a Squier Stagemaster on Ebay once going for next to nothing
because it had the crack in the lacquer. The owner thought the wood was
cracked.
curtisp...@gmail.com
I thin long dry epoxy thinned anti-viscous with reagent chemistry grade pure isopropanol (spelling) loaded into needled syringe.
The alcohol eventually volatile evaporates out of the fissure, micro and deep as it may be, before epoxy sets (meaning won't run with gravity yanking). So orient solidbody in favorable spatial position such that gravity assists anti-viscous penetration. Select needle gauge to suit deepest needle penetration yet fluid passage thru bore. You can take multiple injections at various entrant fissure sites, no harm no foul generously targeting 100% void fill. There's a very clever way to expose the cartography of the fissure utilizing that toilet tank pellet dye (dry). If you chose to map the fissure with dye, you will be amazed of truth whether dtructural or cosmetic inclined. Keynote is to be made well aware of the fissure extent, where it all goes and terminates. Btw, I've discovered that long cure epoxy can duplicate glass like hardness, providing the hardener is under ratio'd at least to 40/60, 30/70 will get same hardness but you'll have to wait a couple days. Try poking a sewing needle point into this glsss hard adhesive! It doesn't take impression from the needle point. Finally using leather or equivalent crush buffer, find a means, c-clamp maybe, and shut the fissure before epoxy cures and leave this clamping until couple days. You can devise whatever buffers of whatever geometry to suit shutting up the fissure, don't over do it! And either clean extruded epoxy while wet or later when glass hard. Make certain epoxy does not reduce pocket dimensions because of exorbitant amounts of extrude in pocket interfaces to neck reception, though it should not get this way if you are eyeballing for it during filling. You can masking blue tape the bowels wherr gravity takes all liquid, allbeit a mighty gaping wide fissure. Cosmetics is your last concern, structural is prioritized.
Got it?
Pt
Pt
curtisp...@gmail.com
Its more involved using silicone vacuum hood and evac pump drawing vacuum to the fissure.
Epoxy introduced from pocket fissure interception, and will be drawn towards the hooded vacuum source.
This schema ensures the fissure gets flooded with epoxy.
Realize epoxy contaminated support gear can be cleaned so long as epoxy has not cured, else dispose gear if you're too late.
You can in line install a receiver collection bottle to protect vacuum pump, cheapo ebay battery operated breast pump suffices, or cheapo dialysis circulatory pumps (people contaminated so disinfect).
Truth is fissures result from lateral neck tragedy, you're talkin big forces acting upon that little nub of solidbody coffering the treble side of neck rooted to pocket.
If you search hard enough, you'll discover telltale hurts associated to the trauma (tragedy). I've found bent shafting sperzel (spelling), found dented lateral of neck and headstock (maple is tough! So forces had to be significant). Also observed misaligned neck canted yet fastening intact, meaning there is degrees of freedom for canting prior to lockdown of neck. By using thread trapezed longitudinally you will confirm the cant because outboard strings should be positioned centered, not canted or offset to neck lateral.
Btw, good interface contact is paramount between both members in the pocket. This is what integrates soundful rigidity, we term it sonic coupling, and its measureable, all conditions equal. How is this accomplished (precise fitup)? I use bluing imprint ink, seen in engine valves seating lapping, and dentistry bite evenness.
curtisp...@gmail.com
All I can visualize is a strong backbone flushed against body bottom longitudinally, fulcrum inserted behind pocket body bottom side, then pinch backbone together with pocket tongue with fine threaded clamp. As clamp carefully torqued, pocket tongue is flexed minutely in crack propagation favor, equivalently, opening fissure for inject epoxy. Realize tongue is being flexed by jig in the direction that creates that lespaul neck to body breakover angle. This fissure spreading direction imparts the force to controllably open the fissure for receiving inject epoxy. Utilize buffer such as leather to avoid depressing lumber into yielding, such as formica scraps, or even heavy gauge picks. You don't have want to deform lumber, finish, etc., as fitup may be compromised, or backside of body can be marred by affixing rigidly that backbone (carpenter's "I" beam bubble level, favoring stiffness)