fender 65 deluxe reverb amp - master?

[J]

How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
reverb amp? Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
a lower volumes level for home practice? Anyone have a diagram for this?

J

[WB]

On 8/6/2010 10:34 AM, J wrote:
> How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
> reverb amp?

Are you fucking nuts ? People like you should be shot.
Get a $25 cheap SS turd to fuck up.

> Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
> a lower volumes level for home practice?
>
>

No.

[ed s]

On Aug 6, 10:34 am, "J" <thgksurhtjsgh...@jhgtyjgherhfnsftg.com>
wrote:

Get a "cranked up pedal" . e

[Squier]

> <thgksurh...@jhgtyjgherhfnsftg.com> wrote:

If you are talking about an actual original 65 DR then don't do it. period.
If you are talking about the 65 DR reissue - then go ahead and mod away on it.

Here's the thing -- a Master Volume amp breaks down the amp into 2 controllable
parts -- the preamp gain (usually just called 'volume') and the
power tube output (the 'master').

A master volume amp with the master turned down low is NOT giving you
that classic power tube saturation/distortion. In fact most master volume
amps are made so that people can get cranked up pre-gain and not actually
get their tones from power tube output. In a Master Volume amp if you
wanted to get classic power tube section cranked up then you would still
be putting the master at high levels and adjusting the preamp gain to suit
your tastes. To get lower volumes you would crank up the Master to 10 but
then starve the power section with a low pregain input signal (with the volume
set to low... maybe 1 or 2 or 3). You really don't get a good sound this way
because you are stunting the pregain and sending a starved type of signal
on to the power section. (you would probably have to set the pregain volume
to around 4 or 5 to get it normalized as to what a 65 DR would be in stock condition).
So you are back to where to started.

a 'cranked' pregain section with a low master volume is NOT the classic
'cranked up' sound of the power tube section running all out.
these are 2 different things.

What I would suggest and involves no mods is to get a power soak or
air brake or weber mini-mass or whatever attentuator you want to use.
This way you can play with the power section cranked up (a DR has only
volume which IS the master - the pregain is preset within the amp's circuit).
With an attentuator you can crank up the amp. An attentuator can (for example)
lower the output section to a few watts so you can get it cranked up at
reasonable volumes at home. But even 5 attentuated watts cranked up into a 12" speaker
is going to be fairly loud in a small room. Be advised on that.

My other suggestion is for you to use the Deluxe Reverb 22 watts to play
out or for jamming with a band or friends or playing in a live band situation
and just get yourself a Fender Champ (silverface is cool) or get yourself
the new Super Champ XD and then use the Champ to play at home. It still
gets loud but with the smaller speaker and reduced wattage can sound good
cranked up at better 'home' volumes than a Deluxe Reverb.

[Jim]

Allow me to answer by adding comments to Squier's response, because he
said some good stuff...

On 8/6/2010 12:51 PM, Squier wrote:
>> <thgksurh...@jhgtyjgherhfnsftg.com> wrote:
>
>> How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
>> reverb amp? Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
>> a lower volumes level for home practice? Anyone have a diagram for this?
>>
>> J
>>
>
> If you are talking about an actual original 65 DR then don't do it. period.
> If you are talking about the 65 DR reissue - then go ahead and mod away on it.

...but I think you'll end up being disappointed.

>
> Here's the thing -- a Master Volume amp breaks down the amp into 2 controllable
> parts -- the preamp gain (usually just called 'volume') and the
> power tube output (the 'master').
>
> A master volume amp with the master turned down low is NOT giving you
> that classic power tube saturation/distortion. In fact most master volume
> amps are made so that people can get cranked up pre-gain and not actually
> get their tones from power tube output. In a Master Volume amp if you
> wanted to get classic power tube section cranked up then you would still
> be putting the master at high levels and adjusting the preamp gain to suit
> your tastes.

And much depends on the design of the amps. GOOD master volume amps
don't just throw a volume control between the preamp and the power amp.
They design the preamp to get a certain type of distortion on its own.
When you throw a master volume on a non master amp, you often won't
even get the type of distortion you want without also modifying the gain
structure of the preamp, add/modify some tone filtering between gain
stages, and/or putting a boost pedal on the preamp.

> To get lower volumes you would crank up the Master to 10 but
> then starve the power section with a low pregain input signal (with the volume
> set to low... maybe 1 or 2 or 3). You really don't get a good sound this way
> because you are stunting the pregain and sending a starved type of signal
> on to the power section. (you would probably have to set the pregain volume
> to around 4 or 5 to get it normalized as to what a 65 DR would be in stock condition).
> So you are back to where to started.
>
> a 'cranked' pregain section with a low master volume is NOT the classic
> 'cranked up' sound of the power tube section running all out.
> these are 2 different things.

Yes and no. Depends on circuit design and speaker choice. There are
amps that get pretty dang close in tone. But it's not "the same."

The most common example of preamp distortion in the current crop of Mesa
Rectifier amps. The lead tones have heavy saturation in the preamp
tubes. It's not as simple as just stacking gain sections, but it is
done in the preamp.

>
> What I would suggest and involves no mods is to get a power soak or
> air brake or weber mini-mass or whatever attentuator you want to use.

That's certainly the most common option. I'll discuss another one below.

> This way you can play with the power section cranked up (a DR has only
> volume which IS the master - the pregain is preset within the amp's circuit).
> With an attentuator you can crank up the amp. An attentuator can (for example)
> lower the output section to a few watts so you can get it cranked up at
> reasonable volumes at home. But even 5 attentuated watts cranked up into a 12" speaker
> is going to be fairly loud in a small room. Be advised on that.

And a standard caution: Rich Koerner, an expert on Fender amps that I
have lots of respect for, and who built my Super Reverb, calls
attenuators "TRANNY TOASTERS." Why? Because in the BEST situation, you
are pushing your amp MUCH harder than what you are hearing, and it is
very easy to forget that you're driving it hard. In less than the best
situation, your attenuator is not mimicking the response curve of a
speaker cab, and that *might* be harder yet on the output transformer
and output tubes.

This is a whole separate discussion, which I'm happy to go into if the
thread turns that way.

If you use the attenuator, resist the urge to dime your amp all day long
with bedroom output levels. That's the surest way to exceed the design
parameters of the amp, and possible cause some damage (including burnt
out output transformer and/or shorted output tubes).

Expect much shorter output tube life, just as if you were diming it
without the attenuator.

This is not a perfect analogy, but think of it as if you're driving your
car on the freeway in a low gear that puts your engine at the redline,
instead of the normal overdrive gear.

Some amps are more susceptible to failure. Here's a pic of the hang tag
that came on my JMP 2204 Marshall that I bought new in 1981:
http://tinyurl.com/2204-hangtag

I have two amps with built in attenuators. A Valve Junior that I did
many mods on, and a THD Univalve that has a hotplate circuit built in.
So I'm not opposed to attenuators as long as you realize that you're
PUSHING that amp!

>
> My other suggestion is for you to use the Deluxe Reverb 22 watts to play
> out or for jamming with a band or friends or playing in a live band situation
> and just get yourself a Fender Champ (silverface is cool) or get yourself
> the new Super Champ XD and then use the Champ to play at home. It still
> gets loud but with the smaller speaker and reduced wattage can sound good
> cranked up at better 'home' volumes than a Deluxe Reverb.

That's a good option as well.

And here's my final option, but it will take a tech to do it for you:
POWER SCALING. This mod WILL get you power tube distortion at low
output levels. WITHOUT the stress on the amp!

Here's the FAQ on it: http://www.londonpower.com/pscaling.htm

Here are currently offered kits:
http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=7&osCsid=cd9c0f081db60dd6e463305f0e5a4bb0

How to pick: http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/about_our_ps_kits.php

[west]

On 8/6/2010 10:34 AM, J wrote:

Best thing since sliced bread:

http://www.hallamplification.com/main.html?src=%2F#2,2

[jh]

J schrieb:

J
it would be fairly easy: a hole, a pot, some wires, some solder and
about one and a half hour of time. BUT IMHO it won't sound like you
expect it to do and you'd end up with a butchered amp.
Do yourself a favour and test on of the 70's silverface amps, they HAVE
a master.

Thos Fenders sound marvelous with the master on ten, but the preamp
distortion of this circuit? - check out yourself.

My advice would be to leave the amp as it is and to get a good pedal. My
personal No1 choice with a silverface fender is the H&K tubefactor.

regards

Jochen

[jtees4]

You are correct Squier....these days a lot of younger people don't
even understand the difference between pre amp and power amp gain.
They think distortion/gain is distortion/gain never realizing there is
a difference. Hey, I like both kinds depending on the situation...but
I know the difference...and I know my favorite is output stage
distortion because my tube amp is blasting on 11, though I rarely get
the chance.

****
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[%]

On 2019-01-11 5:06 p.m., marto...@gmail.com wrote:
> WB,shut the fuck up. Who the fuck are you to say things like that? You're a little cunt.
>
yay

[Grip]

You simply need this, a bit salty for an OD pedal but it works wonderfully with all my amps...I have a collection of vintage tube amps, Fender Pro, Ampeg VT-40, Marshall JMP, Mesa Maverick, etc. As you can see, I like single channel amps that excel in CLEAN, then season to taste for various gigging duties. The Freidman BE-OD is like having an already modded Marshall Channel via a pedal...Think PLEXI all the way...NOT for scooped mid (2,034 different variations of metal) kind of junk...I have or have owned every new OD pedal to come down the pike at some point, and this is the final stop for me :-) Keep in mind I reserve ALL rights of thinking my tone will suck every other two weeks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVotKbmlDic

[Lord Valve]

WB is indeed a cunt, but of the larger variety.
You might add stupid motherfucker as well.

You're a cunt too, only smaller.

Neither of you can tell a phase inverter from
a fire hydrant anyway, so both of you should
just shut the fuck up.


Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (fuck you)

[Lord Valve]

It can be done, but odds are you wouldn't like it.
I can think of three or four MV circuits offhand,
one of which is (to my ears, anyway) not terrible.

Keep reading...

[Lord Valve]

On Friday, August 6, 2010 at 12:33:03 PM UTC-6, WB wrote:
> On 8/6/2010 10:34 AM, J wrote:
> > How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
> > reverb amp?
>
> Are you fucking nuts ? People like you should be shot.
> Get a $25 cheap SS turd to fuck up.

Hey, no-blower - I don't think this dude needs to
be taking any advice from some clueless twat who
doesn't know which end of the soldering iron to
hold. You do, however, remind me of a cheap SS turd.
Good call!

For a vintage Deluxe Reverb, the MV can be added by
removing the EXT speaker jack. You can also use the
hole where the "GROUND" switch has been removed
when you installed a modern three-wire line cord.
If you want the control on the front of the amp,
the #2 input jack can be removed from either channel.
I've just provided you with four options for adding
an MV which don't require drilling any holes in the
amp, and are completely reversible if the need arises.

>
> > Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
> > a lower volumes level for home practice?
> >
> >
>
> No.

His idea of "cranked up" may not be the same as yours.
a 2-stage MV in the center of the PI circuit is pretty
good for most folks.

[Lord Valve]

On Friday, August 6, 2010 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-6, Squier wrote:
> > <thgksurh...@jhgtyjgherhfnsftg.com> wrote:
>
> > How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
> > reverb amp? Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
> > a lower volumes level for home practice? Anyone have a diagram for this?
> >
> > J
> >
>
> If you are talking about an actual original 65 DR then don't do it. period.

Bullshit - see my reply to clueless asshole "WB" upthread.

> If you are talking about the 65 DR reissue - then go ahead and mod away on it.

Since that would be a PCB amp (full of Chinesium)
mods would be quite a bit more difficult than
on a vintage PTP type. Amateurs, this is not for you.

>
> Here's the thing -- a Master Volume amp breaks down the amp into 2 controllable
> parts -- the preamp gain (usually just called 'volume') and the
> power tube output (the 'master').
>
> A master volume amp with the master turned down low is NOT giving you
> that classic power tube saturation/distortion. In fact most master volume
> amps are made so that people can get cranked up pre-gain and not actually
> get their tones from power tube output. In a Master Volume amp if you
> wanted to get classic power tube section cranked up then you would still
> be putting the master at high levels and adjusting the preamp gain to suit
> your tastes. To get lower volumes you would crank up the Master to 10 but
> then starve the power section with a low pregain input signal (with the volume
> set to low... maybe 1 or 2 or 3).

How does reducing the input level to the PI
stage "starve" anything?

You really don't get a good sound this way
> because you are stunting the pregain and sending a starved type of signal
> on to the power section.

>CLANG< >HONK< >TWEET<

(you would probably have to set the pregain volume
> to around 4 or 5 to get it normalized as to what a 65 DR would be in stock condition).
> So you are back to where to started.
>
> a 'cranked' pregain section with a low master volume is NOT the classic
> 'cranked up' sound of the power tube section running all out.
> these are 2 different things.
>
> What I would suggest and involves no mods is to get a power soak or
> air brake or weber mini-mass or whatever attentuator you want to use.
> This way you can play with the power section cranked up (a DR has only
> volume which IS the master - the pregain is preset within the amp's circuit).
> With an attentuator you can crank up the amp. An attentuator can (for example)
> lower the output section to a few watts so you can get it cranked up at
> reasonable volumes at home. But even 5 attentuated watts cranked up into a 12" speaker
> is going to be fairly loud in a small room. Be advised on that.
>

Speaking as a professional repair technician,
I'm in favor of power soaks/attenuators. Good
for business!

> My other suggestion is for you to use the Deluxe Reverb 22 watts to play
> out or for jamming with a band or friends or playing in a live band situation
> and just get yourself a Fender Champ (silverface is cool) or get yourself
> the new Super Champ XD and then use the Champ to play at home. It still
> gets loud but with the smaller speaker and reduced wattage can sound good
> cranked up at better 'home' volumes than a Deluxe Reverb.

Champs are a lot louder than most people realize.

[Lord Valve]

On Friday, August 6, 2010 at 11:35:40 PM UTC-6, jh wrote:
> J schrieb:
> > How easy would it be to fit a master volume control to a fender 65 deluxe
> > reverb amp? Would this alone allow me to get that 'cranked up' sound but at
> > a lower volumes level for home practice? Anyone have a diagram for this?
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
>
> J
> it would be fairly easy: a hole, a pot, some wires, some solder and
> about one and a half hour of time. BUT IMHO it won't sound like you
> expect it to do and you'd end up with a butchered amp.

Not if you do it correctly.

> Do yourself a favour and test on of the 70's silverface amps, they HAVE
> a master.

Wrong. No SF Deluxe Reverbs were produced with master
vol controls. Starting in 1982, the horrid "Deluxe
Reverb II" came on the scene. This atonal mess featured
an SS rectifier section, master vol, gain, etc. It only
remained in production until 1986, probably due to the mistake
made by Fender's marketing department in not shipping them
with barf bags.

>
> Thos Fenders sound marvelous with the master on ten, but the preamp
> distortion of this circuit? - check out yourself.
>
> My advice would be to leave the amp as it is and to get a good pedal. My
> personal No1 choice with a silverface fender is the H&K tubefactor.
>
> regards
>
> Jochen

How's that muslim invasion thing going? Any of
your women and little boys remain un-raped?

[Randy DuCharme]

[Willie Whittaker is a Putin Cock Sucker <NoEmail@void.net>]

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 10:17:36 AM UTC-6, Lord Valve wrote:

How's that muslim invasion thing going? Any ofyour women and little boys
remain un-raped?