Kurt Cobain
Brian Macleod
Has anyone else heard anything about this? Regardless of what some
may think of Kurt's musical abilities, it is really a shame to see
someone's life go downhill so rapidly, that they turn to drugs and
finally to a gun to try to end it.
See ya,
Brian
---
. KWQ/2 1.2e NR . I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't NEED a life!
sylvain lafond-phesans
|> Has anyone else heard anything about this? Regardless of what some
|> may think of Kurt's musical abilities, it is really a shame to see
|> someone's life go downhill so rapidly, that they turn to drugs and
|> finally to a gun to try to end it.
Now confirmed....You are right, it is really a shame!
After many 'drugs overflow' he tryed (about a month ago) to kill himself
by eating some pills, and came to a coma. But this time, he hadn't missed.
He was only 27, married, and was unknown 5 years ago. I think Nirvana won't
sing anymore. (Their next album title was approximatively "I hate myself, I am
going to kill me.")
Well, I think I'd better stop playing the guitar right now.
I may be wrong since this
news is really recent, so don't
hesitate to correct me.
I hope he has joined the Nirvana now ...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| Sylvain Lafond-Phésans |
| EMail: lafo...@epita.fr French School for Computer Engineering |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Louis William Gascoigne
>See ya,
>Brian
Like he didn't do drugs before he got famous. Although I am no Nirvana
fan, I had listened to them long (about 1 year) before they got popular
with Smells like Teen Spirit. And the mood of the music itself lets you
know that these guys aren't posers of the alternative lifestyle. They liked
being a fringe band. Throw all of that fame etc at them and it screws them
up.
Joseph N Hosteny
Yes, as many probably know by now, the rumor is true. Cobain was
found dead in his home yesterday or the day before (I'm not sure) after
committing suicide...
Tom Patterson
according to present Christian philosophy, Kurt's going to
Hell? He's burning in Hell, right now, as we speak. That's
hardcore, man.
us...@cc.emory.edu (Steve Pittard) wrote:
>
>
>Yes I agree that it was a shame that this happened
>though I don't want to see too much press coverage of
>this event since , well, his muscial contributions
>hadn't quite peaked. Look at this way, if they creat
>some bullshit Cable/TV minis series about Cobian with
>Micahle J.Fox or Ricky Schroeder as the lead then you
>will know just how fucked up the music biz ha become
>(Or , they migth try to bring this into the plot line
>of "beverly Melrose 90125"). In all seriousuess its a
>bad scene but I really, really hope that they don't try
>to compare this scene to Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison,
>Janis Joplin, etc. That would be a bit to much. I mean
>the guy from the Gin Blossoms offed himself and there
>wasn't much said about it other than that he was a big
>time drinker. I guess if you are selling alot of
>records at the time then you are hot shit. For those
>of u old enough to remember, this whole mentality seems
>to hearken back to the punk rock mentality days when
>it was cool to present ypurself as a potential
>suicidal case with the idea being that u might actually
>get to
>see someone off thmselves right there in fromt of you.
>I'm suprised MTV didn't have Kurt Loder and that stupid
>airihead bitch present in the house when the incident
>occurred. Well, I know some of this sound harsh and I
>hope this kind oif thin doesn't start a trend (unless
>EngleBert Humperdink wants to follow suit).
>
>Brian Macleod (brian....@the-matrix.com) wrote: :
>Unconfirmed rumor has it that Kurt Cobain has shot
>himself to death...
>: Has anyone else heard anything about this?
>Regardless of what some
>: may think of Kurt's musical abilities, it is really a
>shame to see
>: someone's life go downhill so rapidly, that they turn
>to drugs and
>: finally to a gun to try to end it.
>
>: See ya,
>: Brian
>
>: ---
>: . KWQ/2 1.2e NR . I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't
>NEED a life!
>
>
>--
>Steve Pittard | us...@unix.cc.emory.edu
>PREFERRED Emory University |
>...gatech!emoryu1!uswsp UUCP Academic Computing
>| uswsp@emoryu1 OR uswsp@emuvm1 NON-DOMAIN BITNET
>Atlanta, GA 30322 | Phone: (404) 727-0044
Brandinius
like he lived a bit of hell while still here.
Andy DeFaria
>Did anyone think about the fact that since he killed himself,
>according to present Christian philosophy, Kurt's going to
>Hell? He's burning in Hell, right now, as we speak. That's
>hardcore, man.
At least he's with his friends! :-)
It's a joke man! A joke!
_______________________________________________________________________________
I swear by my life and the love of it that I will | Andrew DeFaria
never live for the sake of another man nor ask | Hewlett Packard
another man to live for mine. | California Language Lab
John Galt | def...@cup.hp.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
Erik S
joked freely about suicide, and wrote a song called"i hate myself and
i want to die" there is definite reason to be worried.If he put himself in a
drug induced coma and broke off the summmer tour with lolapalooza,
these are definite signs that an individual is in trouble.so
enough about him already. I had respect for him alive,
but any man that would cowardly end his life and leave a daughter
and a wife behind to suffer is NO man.
David L. Campbell
>enough about him already. I had respect for him alive,
>but any man that would cowardly end his life and leave a daughter
>and a wife behind to suffer is NO man.
Yes, that's correct. However, you're thinking about this as an, I
assume, emotionally balanced individual. In other words, you're
thinking rationally. A person who is emotionally disturbed enough to
even attempt suicide, by definition, is not thinking rationally. The
concepts of cowardlyness and being a man are meaningless.
David.
--
+-----==== opinions expressed do not represent those of my employer ====-----+
| David L. Campbell, IBM Austin, TX | "... and you eat your own soul |
| Inet: dcam...@austin.ibm.com | until the only thing |
| VM: dcampbel at austin | left is appetite..." |
Bill Leff
In article <2oap72$o...@pipeline.com> fung...@pipeline.com (Tom Patterson) writes:
>Did anyone think about the fact that since he killed himself,
>according to present Christian philosophy, Kurt's going to
>Hell? He's burning in Hell, right now, as we speak. That's
>hardcore, man.
>
>us...@cc.emory.edu (Steve Pittard) wrote:
Man, that's really *heavy*.
Now dig this...
According to "present Christian philosophy" (whatever that
is) most of us will be there right along with him...
Speaking of Kurt, did you happen to see the MTV unplugged
Nirvana did. That "acoustic guitar" was something else.
What a monstrosity...and it actually sounded WORSE than
it looked!
--
-------------------------
"I consider myself and still do consider myself the hippest man on the planet...
But I think if you have to say that you probably aren't, so I've never really
said that." -Barry Manilow
Eric Fein
>In article <xi+PiDO.s...@delphi.com> Erik S <soren...@delphi.com> writes:
>>enough about him already. I had respect for him alive,
>>but any man that would cowardly end his life and leave a daughter
>>and a wife behind to suffer is NO man.
>Yes, that's correct. However, you're thinking about this as an, I
>assume, emotionally balanced individual. In other words, you're
>thinking rationally. A person who is emotionally disturbed enough to
>even attempt suicide, by definition, is not thinking rationally. The
>concepts of cowardlyness and being a man are meaningless.
Makes no difference whether he was disturbed or not (that he was is a
given). He was still a chicken shit, taking the easiest way out of a hard
life rather than sucking it up and dealing with it. Lots of other people
have had hard lives too...
-Eric Clapton...back in the 70's, Clapton was not only a drug addict, but
also an alcoholic. I once heard a story about a show he "played" where he
was so drunk that they unplugged him and had someone filling in behind the
stacks. Also heard that he was scrubbing toilets at a rehab place for
awhile. He wrote Layla for George Harrison's wife, who he was desperately
in love with...he got her, and then it didn't work out. The point is, that
he had an incredibly difficult life both in general AND with dealing with
fame, and he just sucked it all up, cleaned up his act (at least somewhat),
and kept going.
-Jimmy Page...was hooked on heroin for SEVEN YEARS. He shot up EVERY DAY.
He's still around too...he didn't blow his own head off. I know that
Bonham's death sobered him up a bit, but still...
-Jerry Garcia....has done probably about every drug known to man. He's had
a very tough life, dealing with thousands of adoring fans wherever he goes,
and the pressures of stardom. He too lapsed into a coma (collapsed on
stage), and it seemed like it was all over. But, he got up, cleaned up his
act, and got on with his life.
All these guys (amd many others) led very difficult, drug filled, pressured
lives. But they all sucked it up and dealt with it. They didn't take the
easy way out...
Cobain has no excuse...he took the lazy, chicken shit way out, and abandoned
his wife and daughter (son?), and even his band. As his fans, you all
should be pissed off, not upset. He cheated you, too.
Eric
--
This message will self destruct.
Alexei Pawlowski
: I don't know if Cobain believed in hell or such superstitions, but it sounds
: like he lived a bit of hell while still here.
Supersition? I doubt it. People might not want to think about God and heaven and hell and spiritual things these days, but that doesn't make them any less real. There IS a God, a Heaven, a Hell, and all that good stuff. In my opinion, most if not all of the problems in the world today stem from the fact that people have turned away from God. They have all their scientific knowledge and all this technology, and think, "Wow. Look at this. We don't need God anymore. In fact, since there's no scientific proof
that God exists, there probably was never a God in the first place." In this sense, science has killed humanity. It has taken away people's ability to see higher than the mere material world around them. Now don't get me wrong. Science and knowledge is good. Myself, I'm studying Enigineering. But scientific knowledge to the exclusion of all other forms of knowledge is bad. And that's what lots of people seem to be embracing these days. Consequently, since they don't see a God, they see no need for morals,
and look what happens..... Did you all read Jurassic Park? I think the character Ian Malcolm had some good points in that book about science. He was wacked in the head about some things, but Crichton (SP?) presented quite a few things to think about with science through him. Well, I've preached enough. Take care, all. :)
Alexei
LAWLOR WALTER
>From: ef0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Fein)
>Subject: Re: Kurt Cobain
>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 17:09:15 GMT
Are you saying that all these others shot to success as quickly as Nirvana
from the same level of obscurity? Was Garcia's life as poked and prodded as
was Cobain's? You are either joking or a total know-nothing. Do you even
know why Cobain was taking heroin? Do you know of the pain he was
constantly in for years from gastro-intestinal troubles? A pain that until
only recently only the heroin could control? I don't think the press of
the 60's can be compared to the press of the 90's. Get real. I really hate
it when a cushy know-nothing like you gets on his fucking platform and
judges others. Who the fuck do you think you are calling him chicken-
shit? What have you done that makes you so brave? You who I am sure has
not been there (I never heard of you anyway.). Until you are there, and I
doubt you ever will be, go back to bed. I don't want to hear from you
anymore, loser...
Walt.
LAWLOR WALTER
>-Eric Clapton...back in the 70's, Clapton was not only a drug addict, but
>also an alcoholic. I once heard a story about a show he "played" where he
>was so drunk that they unplugged him and had someone filling in behind the
>stacks. Also heard that he was scrubbing toilets at a rehab place for
>awhile. He wrote Layla for George Harrison's wife, who he was desperately
>in love with...he got her, and then it didn't work out. The point is, that
>he had an incredibly difficult life both in general AND with dealing with
>fame, and he just sucked it all up, cleaned up his act (at least somewhat),
>and kept going.
>
>-Jimmy Page...was hooked on heroin for SEVEN YEARS. He shot up EVERY DAY.
>He's still around too...he didn't blow his own head off. I know that
>Bonham's death sobered him up a bit, but still...
>
>-Jerry Garcia....has done probably about every drug known to man. He's had
>a very tough life, dealing with thousands of adoring fans wherever he goes,
>and the pressures of stardom. He too lapsed into a coma (collapsed on
>stage), and it seemed like it was all over. But, he got up, cleaned up his
>act, and got on with his life.
>
>All these guys (amd many others) led very difficult, drug filled, pressured
>lives. But they all sucked it up and dealt with it. They didn't take the
>easy way out...
>
>--
>This message will self destruct.
Oh yeah, twit, are you saying that he did it BECAUSE of the drugs? I am
sure you did NOT know that according to him, he was off H for around 1
year +. I am sure that you knew VERY little about him. I guess that up
there on your pedistal in hard times Rochester you didn't get around to
reading his lyrics before slamming his character. I hope if your life DOES
turn for the worse, you will have someone as understanding as yourself to
help you out. Then again, will anyone care?
Cheers.
Anne Jenkins
>Tom Patterson (fung...@pipeline.com) wrote:
>>Did anyone think about the fact that since he killed himself,
>>according to present Christian philosophy, Kurt's going to
>>Hell? He's burning in Hell, right now, as we speak. That's
>>hardcore, man.
>
>At least he's with his friends! :-)
>
>It's a joke man! A joke!
My, my, is this turning into a flame group?!?
Anne Jenkins
Obligatory quote:
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness..."
--Allen Ginsberg, "Howl"
Alexei Pawlowski
: In article <1994Apr12.1...@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> ef0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Fein) writes:
: >From: ef0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Fein)
: >Subject: Re: Kurt Cobain
: >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 17:09:15 GMT
: >In <DCAMPBEL.94...@timshel.austin.ibm.com> dcam...@timshel.austin.ibm.com (David L. Campbell) writes:
: >
: >>In article <xi+PiDO.s...@delphi.com> Erik S <soren...@delphi.com> writes:
: >Makes no difference whether he was disturbed or not (that he was is a
: Walt.
I think the point is that nowadays people have an excuse for everything. Any
time they screw up and do wrong, there's always an excuse (temporary insanity,
my mom didn't love me enough, whatever). Why? Because people and society
today have no desire for accountability (ok I'm generalizing, but you know what
I mean). They don't want to admit that they screwed up, so they blame it on
someone or something else. That's where you get the parental "Heavy metal
forced my kid to kill himself" routine. In the end, though, it's all hot air.
You can make all the excuses you want, but in the end there's no excuse for
doing something like killing yourself. You might want to think, "oh well, look
at what was going on in his life, he was so...blah blah blah" and say that
makes it allright. But it doesn't. Now don't go jumping and cutting down
people who happen to have (gasp) moral convictions. It's not fair, and it
only makes you look narrow. Well, I'll get off the soapbox now. :) L8r.
Alexei
Jim Burris
>Brandinius (brand...@aol.com) wrote:
>: I don't know if Cobain believed in hell or such superstitions, but it sounds
>: like he lived a bit of hell while still here.
>
>Supersition? I doubt it. People might not want to think about God
>and heaven and hell and spiritual things these days, but that doesn't
>make them any less real. There IS a God, a Heaven, a Hell, and all
| Prove it!
V
>that good stuff. In my opinion, most if not all of the problems in
>the world today stem from the fact that people have turned away from
>God. They have all their scientific knowledge and all this technology,
>and think, "Wow. Look at this. We don't need God anymore. In fact,
>a God in the first place." In this sense, science has killed humanity.
>It has taken away people's ability to see higher than the mere material
>world around them. Now don't get me wrong. Science and knowledge is good.
>Myself, I'm studying Enigineering. But scientific knowledge to the
>exclusion of all other forms of knowledge is bad. And that's what lots
>of people seem to be embracing these days. Consequently, since they don't
>all read Jurassic Park? I think the character Ian Malcolm had some
>good points in that book about science. He was wacked in the head about
>some things, but Crichton (SP?) presented quite a few things to think
>about with science through him. Well, I've preached enough. Take care, all. :)
> Alexei
>
Jeff Vineburg
>didn't have Kurt Loder and that stupid airihead bitch present in the house
>when the incident occurred.
Oh man, cut it out.
Now I have to change my pants.
<g>
>Well, I know some of this sound harsh and I
>hope this kind oif thin doesn't start a trend (unless EngleBert Humperdink
>wants to follow suit).
Leave Englebert alone.
Let's have at Pearl Jam and Beck.
* SLMR 2.1a * If guitarists get all the girls, where are mine?
Jeff Vineburg
>according to present Christian philosophy, Kurt's going to
>Hell?
Depends on a few things.....
Do the Christians have any idea?
Was he baptized?
Was he a Christian?
Will he learn to play guitar once there?
* SLMR 2.1a * Jesse Helms is a cross-dresser
Jeff Preston
In a previous article, bl...@wpi.WPI.EDU (Timothy Michael Cyberey) says:
> That's all fucking bullshit about the heroin. No one takes
>heroin for pain stupid. Even if it was, it's still no reason to
>abuse drugs. How can u even justify this freak's drug abuse.
>People are getting fucking stupid and I guess you're their leader.
Cobain was stupid, yes, but it's clear that you haven't the slightest
clue what the pharmacological effects of heroin are if you think no one
uses it for controlling intense pain. Go to the nearest library and
find out for yourself, and just say no to the crap that's spouted off
as fact by D.A.R.E. and the Partnership For a Truth-Free America.
Btw, it was his constitutional right to fuck himself up however he
saw fit, I should add. It's too bad that others have to deal with his
absence, but no relationship is a guarantee For a Truth-Free America.
Btw, it was his constitutional right to fuck himself up however he
saw fit, I should add. It's too bad that others have to deal with his
absence, but no relationship comes with a guarantee.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston =*= Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= atavachro...@msuacad.morehead-st.edu =*=*=*=
Timothy Michael Cyberey
Sorry but it's not his constitutional right to get fucked up.
His constitutional rights does not emcompass breaking the law.
Jeff Preston
In a previous article, bl...@wpi.WPI.EDU (Timothy Michael Cyberey) says:
> Sorry but it's not his constitutional right to get fucked up.
> His constitutional rights does not emcompass breaking the law.
Take a look at the Ninth Amendment. Laws which prohibit drug use
violate it. That's why it took an amendment to the Constitution to
prohibit the sale and distribution of alcohol. Of course neither
the Supreme Court nor the Congress seem to give a damn about the
Constitution anymore... but why should they when the U.S. is full of
people like you who don't know what it says or means.
To paraphrase Ben Franklin, those who would sacrifice liberty for
safety's sake deserve neither. And they get what they deserve, too.
Boris A. Karaman
: His constitutional rights does not emcompass breaking the law.
Kurt Cobain's untimely death was the result of self-destructive behavior.
He simply made a bad choice in dealing with the problems he faced.
Suicide seems like a way to make the pain (psychological or physical) stop.
It is in fact the *easy* way out. I'm sorry that he killed himself. It
was a loss to music. It was also clearly illegal to take heroin ( a narcotic
pain-killer) and to kill himself, but does this really matter?
Each time the world loses a musician, the damn politicians and lawyers
outnumber us even more.
Boris
bkar...@wariat.org "Will Kurt be jammin' with Bix now?"
Jeremiah Weiner
: Makes no difference whether he was disturbed or not (that he was is a
: given). He was still a chicken shit, taking the easiest way out of a hard
: life rather than sucking it up and dealing with it. Lots of other people
: have had hard lives too...
Get off your damn high horse. You have absolutely no idea
what his life was like or why he killed himself, unless you were his
good personal friend, which I doubt.
Also, I think your view of suicide is skewed. He took the
easiest way out? Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. Obviously you
haven't committed suicide yourself, so I don't know how you can say
it's easy. OK, maybe it is the easy way out, let's play with this
idea. Does that make it wrong somehow? Maybe he should have just
said, "Yeah, my life sucks and I'm in constant pain. I think I'll
stay here!" To make an analogy, if there was a guy bashing your skull
in with a hammer, would you say, "I have to suck it up and deal with it"
or would you move away from it? I don't know, maybe you think it would be
chickenshit to move away from that guy...but the important part is that
if you deny his right to commit suicide, you deny him- you deny
everyone- the right to live their life the way they want to.
: Cobain has no excuse...he took the lazy, chicken shit way out, and abandoned
: his wife and daughter (son?), and even his band. As his fans, you all
: should be pissed off, not upset. He cheated you, too.
OK, up to this point I've only had a philosophical difference
with you. Now I think you're a moron. He cheated his fans?
Exactly what the hell did he owe them? He didn't belong to them
and they have no right to say what he should do with his life!
The only people I could conceivably say he "cheated" were his wife
and child, and I'm still not entirely decided on that.
My apologies for this extremely off-topic discussion...but I'm
tired of hearing the same sort of hackneyed, Boy-Scoutish arguments
over and over again.
JD
Dave Johansen
What the hell does Kurt Cobain's suicide have to do with
guitars or guitar playing other than he was a guitar player..
While I defend each and everyone's right to their opinion,
this bashing of one another because you disagree with each
other because what he did is REALLY nauseating..
who votes that you all start your own discussion panel
of your philosophical viewpoints offline???
In parting, I have to say one thing, until you have experienced
suicide firsthand you haven't a clue what it is all about.. I don't
care what you've read, seen or heard. Leave it alone and get on
with your lives.
-dnjohans
Axel Koerv
[stuff deleted]
LW> Oh yeah, twit, are you saying that he did it BECAUSE of the
LW> drugs? I am sure you did NOT know that according to him, he
LW> was off H for around 1 year +. I am sure that you knew VERY
LW> little about him. I guess that up there on your pedistal in
It doesn't matter, which kind of drugs he took, but it is definitely true
that Kurt still had a drug problem: Nirvanas second concert in Munich was
cancelled and should take place somewhere in April. A week after the first
concert in Munich, Kurt was found in a barbiturate delirium and Nirvana
cancelled the concert in Rome (and the rest of the tour??).
cu, Axel
** Fido: 2:2480/147.2 **
** Internet: Axel....@oase.muc.de **
David L. Campbell
>>In <DCAMPBEL.94...@timshel.austin.ibm.com> dcam...@timshel.austin.ibm.com (David L. Campbell) writes:
>>
>>>In article <xi+PiDO.s...@delphi.com> Erik S <soren...@delphi.com> writes:
>>>>enough about him already. I had respect for him alive,
>>>>but any man that would cowardly end his life and leave a daughter
>>>>and a wife behind to suffer is NO man.
>>
>>>Yes, that's correct. However, you're thinking about this as an, I
>>>assume, emotionally balanced individual. In other words, you're
>>>thinking rationally. A person who is emotionally disturbed enough to
>>>even attempt suicide, by definition, is not thinking rationally. The
>>>concepts of cowardlyness and being a man are meaningless.
>>
>>Makes no difference whether he was disturbed or not (that he was is a
>>given). He was still a chicken shit, taking the easiest way out of a hard
>>life rather than sucking it up and dealing with it. Lots of other people
>>have had hard lives too...
Makes every bit of difference in the world. When you're that depressed,
the words "chicken shit" from somebody typing at a computer terminal mean
nothing. Suicide being "the easy way out" -- that's a notion that has
significance only to us, the emotionally balanced. But to the suicidal,
its not the easy way out, its appears to be the *only* way out. They're
not thinking rationally, they CANNOT SEE their options. Seriously, you
should try to understand this; you'll be of more help to someone in that
situation than you will with your present attitude. I *know* this; I've
been there.
Most of us could sympathize with a person who was being physically
tortured, with no means of escape and wanted the relief of death. (If you
can't, I suppose there's no point in reading further.) To the emotionally
tortured, it is *exactly* the same situation from their perspective; the
pain is something akin to third-degree burns to the soul and escaping from
your own emotions seems nothing short of impossible. Whether we can
understand their pain or not is irrelevant, its still there inside them
and will eventually consume them if they don't get help. The examples you
mention of people who have overcome this sort of adversity -- these are
fine stories of triumph and they certainly command our respect. But for
every success story there are a dozen tragedies. Looking at the big
picture, you'll see that the obstacles are indeed surmountable, but it
isn't easy and in most cases, the person desparately needs help. And
unfortunately not everybody is going to come out a winner.
I'm not saying this so that we can all feel sorry for Cobain, or worse
yet, romantisize his senseless death. I'm saying this because it is very
easy to find yourself in the position of having to deal with a suicidal
person. If you don't have some understanding of their state of mind, its
likely that you'll be of more harm than good.
Glenn M. Poorman
|> This is REALLY getting old.....
|>
|> What the hell does Kurt Cobain's suicide have to do with
|> guitars or guitar playing other than he was a guitar player..
And even that is a debatable statement.
|> who votes that you all start your own discussion panel
|> of your philosophical viewpoints offline???
I do!
--
=========================================================================
Glenn M. Poorman Ford Motor Company
Rm 2228, Bldg #3 Phone: (313) 33-73316
20000 Rotunda Dr. Fax : (313) 39-08817
Dearborn, MI. 48121 Email: poo...@cadcam.pms.ford.com
=========================================================================
Prince Ronstafari
>>
>
> Btw, it was his constitutional right to fuck himself up however he
>
> saw fit, I should add.
Which clause of the consitution is that? I must have missed that one
last time I looked it over.
But, as Jeff points out correctly, Heroin, an opiate related to
Morphine, would probably do a great job of numbing your pain.
Actually, a friend of mine who was on Morphine once described as not
numbing the pain, just making it so that he "didn't care" so my guess
is that heroin would do something similar.
This does not, however, mean it's intelligent to use heroin. In fact,
it's probably one of the dumber things somebody could do (not to far
after putting a shotgun to one's head and pulling the trigger, but
it's probably safe to say he was suffering from clinical depression at
that point, so I don't know if the whole smart/dumb thing applies--
or, at least, I hope that was why he did it.)
But a constitutional right to do drugs? Um, no.
But to sum up the Kurt Cobain thing: He was a musician who meant
something to a lot of people (myself not included). I'll give him
respect for being able to connect with people. I'll say it's sad that
he killed himself because it's sad when anyone kills themself. I never
met the man, so I'm not going to pass judgement on his character.
I never considered him an artist on the level of Lennon or Hendrix,
but that doesn't remove the sadness from his untimely death. Just
because he never wrote a song I liked is no reason for me not to have
wished the man a long, happy life, giving his daughter a better
childhood than all indications would suggest that he had.
I also have to wonder about anyone who would be glad someone they never
knew, who never harmed them in any way, died.
-r
Jeff Preston
In a previous article, 94...@williams.edu (Prince Ronstafari) says:
>> Btw, it was his constitutional right to fuck himself up however he
>> saw fit, I should add.
> Which clause of the consitution is that? I must have missed that one
>last time I looked it over.
You missed the Ninth Amendment?
> But a constitutional right to do drugs? Um, no.
Um, yes. The original framers of the Constitution knew they could
not possibly enumerate every God-given right that a soverign individual
could posess; that's why they wrote the Ninth Amendment. That's why
up until the socialized medicine movement became popular, you could
walk into any pharmacy and walk out with opium, cocaine, hashish or
damn near anything that's currently illegal to put into your body today.
Makes you wonder about that Clinton health plan. Bye bye read meat.
Jeff Vineburg
>Morphine, would probably do a great job of numbing your pain.
This Jeff works for a gastroenterologist.
We have things called Zantac, Pepcid, Axid, Gaviscon, Maalox and a
little procedure called a gastroscopy that can help to diagnose and
treat stomach ailments.
I wonder if Suicide Man ever saw one.
* SLMR 2.1a * Born again... hmmmm.... sounds painful.
Prince Ronstafari
>
>In a previous article, 94...@williams.edu (Prince Ronstafari) says:
>
>>> Btw, it was his constitutional right to fuck himself up however he
>>> saw fit, I should add.
>
>> Which clause of the consitution is that? I must have missed that one
>>last time I looked it over.
>
> You missed the Ninth Amendment?
>
>> But a constitutional right to do drugs? Um, no.
>
> Um, yes. The original framers of the Constitution knew they could
> not possibly enumerate every God-given right that a soverign individual
> could posess; that's why they wrote the Ninth Amendment. That's why
> up until the socialized medicine movement became popular, you could
> walk into any pharmacy and walk out with opium, cocaine, hashish or
> damn near anything that's currently illegal to put into your body today.
>
> Makes you wonder about that Clinton health plan. Bye bye read meat.
>
> Jeff
>
Ahem. The ninth amendment to the U.S. Constitution: The enumeration
in the constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny
or disparage others retained by the people.
First, this speaks nothing to the fact that there are many state
narcotics laws. This clause has never been aplied to the states in the
same way the first amendment has.
Secondly, this basically states, "There are other rights." It doesn't
say that you have every other right you can think of. Clearly. The
commerce clause would suggest that the Federal Government has the
right to some drug regulation, and the Reserve Clause would suggest
that states, can, if they want, regulate or ban drugs if they like.
Now, I actually happen to agree with you, as far as saying that our
current national drug policies are foolish. However, I don't think you
do the cause any good by making up B.S. constitutional rights, which
don't in fact exist.
The best you could hope for, in this case, is to get drug use fit
into the "right to privacy" set of "penumbral emanations." I happen to
like the idea of a right to privacy, but very few Constitutional
Scholars will seriously tell you that they're convinced that it's
really in there.
In short, you're going to have to come up with a better
constitutional right to use drugs than "the ninth amendment." Yes,
drugs were legal at one time, but basically you could extend the
arguement that you're using (well, it used to be legal!) to say that
goverment can't make any new laws. Nobody think the doctrine of
Original Intent goes that far.
My apologies to those who really don't want to read this. Hopefully,
you've pressed 'k' by now. But the truth really should be told.
Bascially, the commerce clause gives the government the right to
regulate it between the states, and the reserve clause gives the
states the right to do whatever they want within each one. Need I say
more?
-r
The.Mad...@macro.com
> I think the point is that nowadays people have an excuse for
everything. Any
> time they screw up and do wrong, there's always an excuse (temporary
insanity,
> my mom didn't love me enough, whatever). Why? Because people and
society
> today have no desire for accountability (ok I'm generalizing, but you
know what
> I mean). They don't want to admit that they screwed up, so they blame
it on
> someone or something else. That's where you get the parental "Heavy
metal
> forced my kid to kill himself" routine. In the end, though, it's all
hot air.
> You can make all the excuses you want, but in the end there's no
excuse for
> doing something like killing yourself. You might want to think, "oh
Perhaps not so much an excuse for something, but a reason. After all,
once you're dead your not very likely to be making many excuses.