Don't bring your life into the studio
ljstarin
Don't gripe about your life to band members, and don't think about your
nagging wife. Who cares if the sink is still leaking? Think about that
when you get home. If you bring your outside,non musical, world into your
studio, or anywhere you are practicing, you will displace your music, and
become short on concentration and feel continuously distracted. And, if you
are in a rut, it is all the much more worse. The last thing I want when I
am playing, and particullarly,when I am recording, is for my girl friend to
call me and gripe about something, and try to get me to respond to her
neediness. It only takes but a few seconds to forget the vibe that was
established after the last take or attempted take. Now it may take 50 more
takes to recover the senses and play with any depth. Also, never think
about what people will possibly think about your music while you are playing
it. That is stupid and preposterous. Who cares what other people think.
You can't be analyzing from a hypothetical stance while trying to play.
You'll sound like shit, relative to what you could be playing. Now, it may
be important what people will think of your music, in order to keep it
improving, when you are trying for a commercial success. But, you must wait
until you are not trying to come up with any musical ideas. Once you have
finished all your creative thinking and have written or recorded the ideas,
then you can take the rest of your world into perspective. But, until then,
if you don't learn to tune the world out when you are playing or creating,
you will find yourself in the same place forever. A lot of the things
people think about are for talk around the checker board or bridge table at
the old folks home. When you find yourself reminiscing, you are finished.
The best is yet to come, the past is dead and buried, or should be, and the
outside world will have to wait outside, for a little while longer, until
the artist becomes a human being again and goes back into the everyday
world.
Path
i've always heard that the the more of your emotional
self that you put into the recording, the better you'll
sound. what is the blues if it's not a man feeling bad?
feeling bad that his woman done him wrong. feeling bad
cause you got no money. feeling bad that the man is keeping
you down...on and on and on...
your method sounds pretty cold and sterile to me.
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser - FREE -
Findlay
you?
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:pvF03.3180$4R.1...@news.cwix.com...
paul brecht
Richard Brooks
My mistake...
--
BLACKFIRE band web site: www.blackfire.demon.co.uk
Join us in the darkness...
OCM87
I think that you are right to a point, on the other hand, Rumours might not
have been the album it was had most of the band kept their problems out of the
studio.
X-Factor
shared this nugget of wisdom :
>Exactly what I said. The studio is for complete and total focus on music.
>Don't gripe about your life to band members, and don't think about your
>nagging wife. Who cares if the sink is still leaking? Think about that
>when you get home. If you bring your outside,non musical, world into your
>studio, or anywhere you are practicing, you will displace your music, and
>become short on concentration and feel continuously distracted.
This would put a serious cramp in your music if your songs were about
your nagging wife and your leaking sink.
Matthew Spann
and not just for Blues mind you
heart and soul should be in all music
mAtT
Southpaw
>>Don't gripe about your life to band members,
>
>I think that you are right to a point, on the other hand, Rumours might not
>have been the album it was had most of the band kept their problems out of the
>studio.
Yeah, but ya gotta remember, those people were living with each other
too.
ljstarin
that's going to distract you from being able to concentrate and feel the
music. You see, if you are thinking about how you are going to pay the
bills, you can't be putting much of yourself into your playing, because you
have divided your attention. So, shame on you guys for reading into
something that was never there. I would be pissed off about your replies,
but it's has to be expected from those with a knee jerk personality and an
assuming nature. So think about it.
paul brecht wrote in message <7i0838$79s$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Findlay
on Muchmore Music.
OCM87 <oc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990519203553...@ng-da1.aol.com...
Findlay
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:MUN03.4146$4R.2...@news.cwix.com...
ljstarin
Moon, Plymouth Rock, Mirror Image, why am I replying to a shit head?
Findlay wrote in message ...
ljstarin
mentioned a while back. It's just a few blocks from my own. Berklee had
a studio too. CBS has a nice one in Chicago. Findlay, you're a little
kid, it's as plain as your incredulousness. Why do you pester people? I
have forgotten more about playing than you'll ever learn, and I still know
more about it then you'll ever know. By the way, I listened to more of
Jarl's music. Jarl, you sound like I did about 3 months after I first
started playing. I liked it. Made me all reminiscent of my first guitar
recordings, which I still have, at least some of them. Actually Jarl, you
need to record some backing rhythm guitars on some of that stuff. It would
give you something to play to and improvise to, and help you keep in proper
key. You not as clumsy sounding as I came to believe from the first time I
downloaded your stuff. I listened to you newest ones. Keep it up Jarl.
Just put a little more direction into what you are playing.
ljstarin wrote in message ...
ljstarin
what other guitar players are going to think of it and if it's going to be
good enough. Do this while you are playing it. Be critical about what you
play and take the perspective of a master player listening to a student.
See if you can play at all.
Findlay
fucking dickhead? Also what the fuck have you ever done to be so high and
mighty? How many albums have you sold? Where's your site? let's hear you
MISTER FUCKING KNOW IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:vRP03.4189$4R.2...@news.cwix.com...
Findlay
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:fUP03.4190$4R.2...@news.cwix.com...
> Next time you are recording a solo at a studio, why don't you think about
> what other guitar players are going to think of it and if it's going to be
> good enough. Do this while you are playing it. Be critical about what
you
> play and take the perspective of a master player listening to a student.
> See if you can play at all.
ljstarin
But in your case, with your attitude, you are helpless. Sorry about that.
You know what you said, don't play stupid. Or, can't you help that? I am
working on the music postings at this very moment. Don't veil your
animosity under peevish quips. Say, "I don't believe a fucking word you've
said". Not, "have you ever been to a studio?" What the fuck? Man, learn
what you can from what I post, I don't need to learn about your
psychological profile from your responses. If you can contradict me with
factual logic, and not bible logic, that is, logical extensions of false
hoods, I would be more than willing to consider and accept your point of
view. As to the responses this posting received, they were all way out
there, and and far askew of anything I was actually talking about. It was a
case of organized ignorance, no doubt. But I will remember to condescend to
the intellectual level of the lowest elements of the group, and will try not
to raise concepts above anyones heads, if that helps. Although, that
posting was right down there with the general public in meaning, so I don't
see how anyone missed it. Maybe there was a typo that had everyone hung up.
Anyway, calm down Findlay, either shit or get off the pot. I have seen your
responses to other people's posts and you are an asshole. You are more of
an asshole then Twang! ever was and probably more so than he could be. I
enjoy having Twang! laying into me with his comments. It's like a
friendship based on animosity. Hell, it's competitive and that's always a
good thing, unless you never win. But even in losing you learn something,
and that's a good thing too.
Findlay wrote in message ...
>fucking dickhead? Also what the fuck have you ever done to be so high and
>mighty? How many albums have you sold? Where's your site? let's hear you
>MISTER FUCKING KNOW IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
>--
>Sonic1
>Sonic Revival Homepage
>www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
>
>> >>> No, you guys missed the point. The point was not to bring any part
>of
>> >>life
>> >>> that's going to distract you from being able to concentrate and feel
>the
>> >>> music. You see, if you are thinking about how you are going to pay
>the
>> >>> bills, you can't be putting much of yourself into your playing,
>because
>> >>you
>> >>> have divided your attention. So, shame on you guys for reading into
>> >>> something that was never there. I would be pissed off about your
>> >>replies,
>> >>> but it's has to be expected from those with a knee jerk personality
>and
>> >an
>> >>> assuming nature. So think about it.
ljstarin
are dumber than shit.
MWS2468 wrote in message <19990520173349...@ng-cr1.aol.com>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>>You're a fucking loser! What have I ever said to you for you to be such a
>fucking dickhead? Also what the fuck have you ever done to be so high and
>mighty? How many albums have you sold? Where's your site? let's hear you
>MISTER FUCKING KNOW IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>make mine テnder
ljstarin
the excellence of Schenker and Roth. What I'd like to know is why have you
started using the missing half now?
Findlay
sold? It's an honest question, it deserves an honest answer. The only time
I respond angrily is when someone goes over the line and insults me first.
Otherwise I am helpful and friendly. As you might recall when we talked of
Vancouver.You don't help anybody here. You just condesend and make fun of
people. You were a big help telling that guy his Epiphone was worth $50.
Haven't you heard the saying "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing
at all"? I try to help people whenever I can. Why don't you get off your
high horse. The only reason I responded to your original post was because
of how stupid it was. Everyone has they're own way of doing things and who
are you to preach. I was in the studio today and I brought my leaky sink!
You are a master of stating the obvious I'll give you that.
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:5b%03.139$C81....@news.cwix.com...
> >You're a fucking loser! What have I ever said to you for you to be such a
> >fucking dickhead? Also what the fuck have you ever done to be so high
and
> >mighty? How many albums have you sold? Where's your site? let's hear
you
> >MISTER FUCKING KNOW IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
paul brecht
JarlSigurd
ljstarin wrote in message ...
> By the way, I listened to more of
>Jarl's music. Jarl, you sound like I did about 3 months after I first
>started playing. I liked it. Made me all reminiscent of my first guitar
>recordings, which I still have, at least some of them. Actually Jarl, you
>need to record some backing rhythm guitars on some of that stuff. It would
>give you something to play to and improvise to, and help you keep in proper
>key.
What makes you think I want to restrict myself to playing in the "proper
key"? "Key's" have their place, but when you're playing in a situation
where
you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don't
need them for solo work.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to guitarist who knows when to dispense with keys
visit: "http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085
Findlay
It just seems strange that you're telling us all these details about you're
life. We don't know you. If I didn't know better one might think you were
a wee bit conceited telling us all these details, when no offense but we
don't know you so who cares? I mean it's not like you're really starting a
discussion, you're just ranting about yourself! All I said was have you
been in a studio. You can take that and think that it impies anything you
want but you crossed the line when you called me a "shithead". But I must
commend you on diffusing the situation.
Isn't Prince from Minneapolis? He used to rock!
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:VQ313.254$C81....@news.cwix.com...
> I think you insulted me first, but nonetheless, I will tell you outright,
I
> am in the business of playing the guitar and not in the business of
selling
> albums. I would need to work at a record store to do that. Before I took
a
> break from playing out a lot, I never recorded and only played live.
Well,
> I guess I don't know how many recordings I have sold. I am on only one
> commercial album. The soundtrack to the Warrior Cup. It's a Karate
video.
> I wrote 3/4s of the music, 1/4 of the lyrics, played all the guitars,
> including the keyboards, which are still only guitars, but you wouldn't
know
> by listening. I know all the first pressings have been sold but we never
> ran another batch. I wanted to rerecord it. As it was, I only had about 6
> hours to create and record all my parts and left quite a bit of scratch
> tracks on the final mix. Not my fault exactly, the bass player, George
> Will, thought he would finagle some freebies from the studio and fucked
> everything up, typical of himself. I hate desperate old players. They
> always want to ride your talent back into the scene. I like well adjusted
> older players. They play well and are non imposing and non assuming, and
> they can tell you things you need to know about situations you may have in
> the future. Also, if you know anything about the way the music business
is
> run in Minneapolis, by sore losers, and people who made really big
mistakes
> in the real world music business, and have blown millions of dollars with
> sure things, that any one with the slightest sense could have succeeded
at,
> you will understand why I have absolutly no interest in dealing with any
of
> those people ever again. Minneapolis is a fucking joke. I could name you
a
> bunch of morons who are in the upper hierarchy of the music business here
> that I have dealt with. Take Oarfolk Records for instance. Run by scum.
> Twintone Records. Run by idiots. Profile Music. Run by people who would
> not know a good band if it crawled up their necks and blew out their
> eardrums, and say that no one wants to hear what people are asking to
hear.
> The Edge Radio. Owned by Disney and run locally by a sleazy creep who
only
> wants hookers and cocaine. Then, all the gay club owners, who hit on you
> and offer to get you the weekly spot, until they realize that all you want
> to do is play music. You are better off in a small town that makes no
> qualms about being inferior to the real cultural meccas, or in a big city
> wher you have a hundred or more non cliqued together people in the music
> business. We have one A&R rep here. His name is Roger Anderson. He only
> wants his lame band to make it big. Want's even lamer bands to warmup for
> his act which is called Knight Crawler. He really didn't appreciate all
the
> people telling him that any band I was playing in would blow his off the
> stage. There is a real lack of talent here in general. Oh Yeah, I forget
> to mention Billy Mclaughlin. Yeah, he's real good. But he has beaten the
> system because he is a solo performer, not to mention that he is damn
good.
> (Johnny Lang caught the attention of the hype masters.) Marsh Adelstien,
a
> manager, producer with a reputation for blowing every dollar he ever
talked
> anyone into investing. His losses run into the tens of millions. I am
not
> so stupid as get involved with these idiots anymore, it would be career
> suicide. Now I am working with some guys who are pretty damn good at
their
> instruments and writing new songs and instrumentals. I am still trying to
> find a replacement for John Elms on vocals, but that would be like finding
> another David Coverdale. I don't know if the new bass player will hack it
> or not. He seems to have a good sense of music. I will have to see how
my
> music is recieved. So far, all the responses have been favorable, unlike
> many of the responses I get on this newsgroup. When the band is ready, I
> will bring them to a 32 track digital studio and record a CD of 12-16
songs
> and instrumental peices. One thing I am not good at is hype. It is very
> hard for me not to speak my truthful opinion if someone asks me to be
> honest. The last bass player was a hype master, better at PR than bass.
> Even believed is own bullshit. He still talks bullshit. He even asked me
> to tell people that I was sorry he had left the band. The truth is, I
have
> felt better and better since the day he left because I was really getting
> fed up with his inability to play to the level of the rest of the band and
> the music. He even went so far as to tell the new 2nd guitar what to do.
> What a fucking dick that guy was. When he was in the band he played the
> wrong rhythms the wrong phrasing, the songs became weak and lifeless. He
> was killing them fast. I quit practicing because he made it all a waste
of
> time. I wish I was living in a real city, where there was not such a
> limited number of people in the music business. Where the people, who
were
> in the business, weren't losers who thought that even though they had
failed
> in the worst way in the real world, could possibly think that their
moronic
> ideas would fair any different here. Of course, you can take the loser
out
> of the Big Apple, but you can't take the loser out of the loser. So don't
> believe a word about what a great happening music scene Minneapolis has,
> because it's just a bunch of bullshit.
Findlay
you. I'm daring you here!
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:r0413.257$C81....@news.cwix.com...
> Well, there are certain laws of physics you have to consider. There are
the
> principles of harmonic theory. Other than that, no one says you have to
do
> anything. I may not be an advanced enough listener to get the true
meaning
> of your playing. Although I did like the very last selection. I heard
what
> you were accomplishing sonically and just thought you might do it better
> with a reference to play to. I practice with just drums, but I don't take
> so many liberties with my listeners. A few here and there, but not at
every
> hook and turn. I push the envelope of tonality, I don't rip my way
through
> it. No, you have a valid point. Anyway, before I went back to your site,
I
> didn't understand a thing about what you were doing. But after the last
> time, I am beginning to know you from your music. You're all right Jarl,
> not that you need me to say so. I will post soon. Then you can rip on my
> music as much as you would like, if you feel so inclined.
> JarlSigurd wrote in message ...
> >
> >ljstarin wrote in message ...
> >
> >> By the way, I listened to more of
> >>Jarl's music. Jarl, you sound like I did about 3 months after I first
> >>started playing. I liked it. Made me all reminiscent of my first guitar
> >>recordings, which I still have, at least some of them. Actually Jarl,
you
> >>need to record some backing rhythm guitars on some of that stuff. It
> would
> >>give you something to play to and improvise to, and help you keep in
> proper
> >>key.
> >
Donald Hughes
X-Factor wrote:
Actually if all your songs were about your nagging wife and your leaky sink
then bring that into the studio WOULD be the music.You have to stick just to
the music though...
Robert
And if a house gets in my way you know I will burn it down!!
--
\\|//
(o o)
------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----------------
From Delmarva
http://www.intercom.net/user/ppeds/content.html ++My Pages++
http://members.tripod.com/~pat_/index.html
Donald and Pat Hughes
5627 Indiantown Rd
Rhodesdale, Maryland 21659
Tele 410-943-8541
If I can't hunt, fish, listen to country music
or use my computer in Heaven, I'm not sure I want to go.
!!!!! Yes, I do !!!!!
Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
Mark Zedaker
<fin...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> You must be Canadian! There was a show on the making of rumours last night
> on Muchmore Music.
Heh, I just saw an ad for MuchMusic on American cable TV. 'Call your
cable company today!'
--
Mark Zedaker 'Users amaze accursed skill.'
ch...@home.com
ljstarin
but I I was on a roll. My windsheild wipers broke and now it's been raining
for the past three days, and I'm stranded at home. I guess, in this
instance, I probably should have got the joke and just laughed. It was all
right by me, for you to do so. I'm sorry I made my comment to you. Any
one, who knows enough to know that Roth and Schenker are two of the very
best, is entitled to make whatever fun of my posts they feel like making.
Even your response to my "witty" remark was admirable. It's guys like you
who allow me to raise myself back to my feet after sinking to the level of
Southpaw and MWSXXXX. Thanks. paul brecht wrote in message
<7i2drd$55j$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
ljstarin
ljstarin
principles of harmonic theory. Other than that, no one says you have to do
anything. I may not be an advanced enough listener to get the true meaning
of your playing. Although I did like the very last selection. I heard what
you were accomplishing sonically and just thought you might do it better
with a reference to play to. I practice with just drums, but I don't take
so many liberties with my listeners. A few here and there, but not at every
hook and turn. I push the envelope of tonality, I don't rip my way through
it. No, you have a valid point. Anyway, before I went back to your site, I
didn't understand a thing about what you were doing. But after the last
time, I am beginning to know you from your music. You're all right Jarl,
not that you need me to say so. I will post soon. Then you can rip on my
music as much as you would like, if you feel so inclined.
JarlSigurd wrote in message ...
>
>
>>Jarl's music. Jarl, you sound like I did about 3 months after I first
>>started playing. I liked it. Made me all reminiscent of my first guitar
>>recordings, which I still have, at least some of them. Actually Jarl, you
>>need to record some backing rhythm guitars on some of that stuff. It
would
>>give you something to play to and improvise to, and help you keep in
proper
>>key.
>
Agent Mulder
Let's say you write a song that has random chords that are comprised
of random notes that you figured sounded good together. Now say you
want to solo over it...or more realistically, you want to sing a
melody to the chords. Do you create your own scale made from the
chords that you have already created or do you try to plug in one of
the modes of the major scale? Or do you mindlessly sing random notes
to top off your random song? LOL
If you think of it this way, you realize it's much easier to use
contemporary music theory than to invent your own version of music
theory while you write your tunes. I'm not saying that you have to box
yourself into these set laws of harmonics...i venture outside of them
myself all the time to make the music a little more unpredictable.
Just make sure you have a solid understanding of fundamental theory
before you start throwing hundreds of years of research and study out
the window. Beethoven wouldn't approve :-)
On Thu, 20 May 1999 22:17:54 -0400, "JarlSigurd"
<JarlS...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>ljstarin wrote in message ...
>
>> By the way, I listened to more of
>>Jarl's music. Jarl, you sound like I did about 3 months after I first
>>started playing. I liked it. Made me all reminiscent of my first guitar
>>recordings, which I still have, at least some of them. Actually Jarl, you
>>need to record some backing rhythm guitars on some of that stuff. It would
>>give you something to play to and improvise to, and help you keep in proper
>>key.
>
>What makes you think I want to restrict myself to playing in the "proper
>key"? "Key's" have their place, but when you're playing in a situation
>where
>you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
>percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
>becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don't
>need them for solo work.
>
>Jarl Sigurd
>
>to listen to guitarist who knows when to dispense with keys
>visit: "http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------
Come to The Staircase Lounge:
http://come.to/staircase
...and sign the guest book!
-----------------------------------------------------
Remove NOSPAM to reply.
ljstarin
made it from, then he came back a big star, and glorified Minneapolis with
his films. It's quite exaggerated.
Findlay wrote in message
<0X513.16942$r_1.10...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>...
ljstarin
songs,"Freedom",which is a live song recorded at the Columbia, and "Drive"
recorded in a studio somewhere. The song Freedom featured an out of tune
guitar right up front but it was masked by the bass line once the song
started rolling. There was no solo and it ended after a long time of
repeating the same chord progression found in Cream's, "White Room". I was
waiting for Findlay's wahwah guitar, but he respectfully left it off the
song. I'm just messing with you Findlay. The second song was remeniscent
of Bob Mould's Sugar and a little of the Monkees and Spin Doctors thrown in.
Some would say this music would be called retro or Alternative. There's an
effected guitar playing rhythm and Findlay shows a bit of style in his lead
work. His choice of notes is good, his vibrato is of good quality and
expressive. His melody is just beyond being ordinary, in the way that he
plays what you expect, until you think you can guess his next note, and then
he plays a different one, but this note is as good as the cliched note in
your mind. His phrasing is well mannered, yet he has a smoldering intensity
to his playing, setting him apart from the run of the mill. The music, in
it's self, is not guitar virtuoso music and the lead guitar is somewhat
restrained. I think this band, although not the music I look for to
listen too, would be acceptable for people into the style as decent band.
The band could have a lucrative career if they can come up with some hits.
I don't hear it in these songs, but a good producer/arranger could make
these guys into something special. Findlay wrote in message ...
>Why don't you tell what you think of my band. Come on I dare you. I dare
>you. I'm daring you here!
>Sonic1
>Sonic Revival Homepage
>www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
>
>ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
>> Well, there are certain laws of physics you have to consider. There are
>the
>> principles of harmonic theory. Other than that, no one says you have to
>do
>> anything. I may not be an advanced enough listener to get the true
>meaning
>> of your playing. Although I did like the very last selection. I heard
>what
>> you were accomplishing sonically and just thought you might do it better
>> with a reference to play to. I practice with just drums, but I don't
take
>> so many liberties with my listeners. A few here and there, but not at
>every
>> hook and turn. I push the envelope of tonality, I don't rip my way
>through
>> it. No, you have a valid point. Anyway, before I went back to your
site,
>I
>> didn't understand a thing about what you were doing. But after the last
>> time, I am beginning to know you from your music. You're all right Jarl,
>> not that you need me to say so. I will post soon. Then you can rip on
my
>> music as much as you would like, if you feel so inclined.
>> JarlSigurd wrote in message ...
>> >
JarlSigurd
Findlay wrote in message ...
>Why don't you tell what you think of my band. Come on I dare you. I dare
>you. I'm daring you here!
>--
>Sonic1
>Sonic Revival Homepage
>www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
Interesting stuff, Findlay. Unfortunately there is one missing ingredient
to you music which must be added for your band to go over the top.
What it needs is a sexy 6 foot blond Bonnie Raitt style female slide
guitarist with a legalistic mind. If you meet anyone who fits that
description, be sure to offer her a position in your band. It could
be the start of a brand spanking new musical experience for you.
Also a Shania Twain style vocalist wouldn't hurt either!
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a guitarist who gives only constructive critticism visit
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085
JarlSigurd
Agent Mulder wrote in message <3744db80.501486@news>...
>Well without getting too technical:
>Let's say you write a song that has random chords that are comprised
>of random notes that you figured sounded good together. Now say you
>want to solo over it...or more realistically, you want to sing a
>melody to the chords. Do you create your own scale made from the
>chords that you have already created or do you try to plug in one of
>the modes of the major scale? Or do you mindlessly sing random notes
>to top off your random song? LOL
For most of my playing, I don't use chords. Rather I create a percussion
track and play lead guitar over that. I don't play random notes at all,
but base my playing on scales, usually enneatonic(nine tone scales).
Most of my recordings are improvisations over percussion tracks
I've programmed via my midi sequencer. Its an unusual approach
but it lends itself well to computer recording.
>If you think of it this way, you realize it's much easier to use
>contemporary music theory than to invent your own version of music
>theory while you write your tunes. I'm not saying that you have to box
>yourself into these set laws of harmonics...i venture outside of them
>myself all the time to make the music a little more unpredictable.
>Just make sure you have a solid understanding of fundamental theory
>before you start throwing hundreds of years of research and study out
>the window. Beethoven wouldn't approve :-)
Most of my guitar recordings are off the cuff improvisations. I do
know the laws of harmonics and use them for some of my midi
compositions. But when I apply those, I use my midi sequencer, not
my guitar. If you want to listen to some of my contrapunctual or
fugal compositions visit:
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085/kontrapct.html
I don't see much point in learning on guitar stuff that I can much more
easily just punch in using my midi sequencer. I like to use my guitar
for things I can't use my sequencer for, i.e. inspired off the cuff
improvisations.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to my guitar improvisations, visit
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085
nighthawk
> Also a Shania Twain style vocalist wouldn't hurt either!
Only if she...never mind.
(I was going to say, "plays guitar", honestly!)
darius
Mark McDonald
I listened to you "keyless stuff". I think it would be a great
example for a beginning theory class to demonstrate why songs stay in
one key as oppossed to wondering all over the board.
--
Mark McDonald
(707)545-3220
http://inlandproperties.com
m...@sonic.net
Findlay
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
ljstarin <ls...@cwix.com> wrote in message
news:7Y613.349$C81....@news.cwix.com...
> He couldn't make ends meet here, so he went to New York, and that's where
he
> made it from, then he came back a big star, and glorified Minneapolis with
> his films. It's quite exaggerated.
> Findlay wrote in message
> <0X513.16942$r_1.10...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>...
> .
Findlay
so it's pretty dry. Is it really like White Room? I use to have a Cream
tape but I lost it. I was actually trying to remember how to play Dear Mr
Fantasy when I came up with that song. I wrote it completely in 10 minutes!
Words and all. The first time that ever happened. It was cool because I
had band practice that night and got to teach it to everyone and hear
exactly what I was hearing in my head. We were also trying out a keyboard
player that night so I got to hear keys over it. Unfortunately he was a too
straight for us. Just got out of the army or something. How old are you Mr
Listerine? I'm 26.
There's two singer/songwriters in my band you should check out Jason's songs
It Might Be True (favorite solo I ever played) and Rain or Shine. Jay is a
truly incredible songwiter.
"in the way that he> plays what you expect, until you think you can guess
his next note, and then > he plays a different one, but this note is as good
as the cliched note in> your mind. "
scale to save my life. modes forget it. I just remember patterens. I
think this also came from listening to lots of Garcia and Neil.
I'm glad you caught the Monkees riff in Drive. i love doing that!! I put a
riff based on the theme from Sesame Street in a song we're recording now but
the average person would never catch it!
Thanks
Findlay
I weeel keeeel you!!!! AAHHHHHHHGJJJJJJ Know one mentions the love of my
life Shania and lives to tell the tale!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH
I will have you shania if it's the last thing I ever do
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!OJHOJHD)QWJDOH(HC)_Y
JarlSigurd <JarlS...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:z9913.42939$134.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> Findlay wrote in message ...
> >Why don't you tell what you think of my band. Come on I dare you. I
Xdare
> >you. I'm daring you here!
> >--
> >Sonic1
> >Sonic Revival Homepage
> >www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
>
>
> Interesting stuff, Findlay. Unfortunately there is one missing ingredient
> to you music which must be added for your band to go over the top.
> What it needs is a sexy 6 foot blond Bonnie Raitt style female slide
> guitarist with a legalistic mind. If you meet anyone who fits that
> description, be sure to offer her a position in your band. It could
> be the start of a brand spanking new musical experience for you.
> Also a Shania Twain style vocalist wouldn't hurt either!
>
> Jarl Sigurd
>
Findlay
Man you should really get a of some live Grateful Dead. They do a thing
called Space at most of there show's and it sounds very similar to what
you're doing. By the 90's Jerry was using Midi extensively with the help of
Bob Bravlove. The cool thing about the setup was that Bob controlled it not
Jerry. All Jerry could control on stage was the mix between guitar and Midi
but Bob controlled what patches sax, flute, steel drums, etc Jerry got.
That would be pretty challenging on stage.
JarlSigurd <JarlS...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:A9913.42940$134.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
> Jarl Sigurd
>
John Sessoms
Findlay wrote:
It don't matter! This ain't RMMG. Both of you knotheads knock it off.
ljstarin
millions of MWSXXXXs on the internet. Why do you think I singled out just
you? That's a little presumptuous now, isn't it? Heheheh.....
MWS2468 wrote in message <19990521052131...@ng-cd1.aol.com>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>>... It's guys like you who allow me to raise myself back to my feet after
>sinking to the level of... MWSXXXX
>
>Guffaw!
>
>
>
>
>--
>make mine テnder
RockDude63
"KEEP ON ROCKIN"
ROCK DUDE (Phil)
JarlSigurd
nice sound card and a some Cakewalk software!
Jarl Sigurd
To listen to the creative possibilities of Cakewalk providing
accompanyment for a guitarist, visit
Mark
<JarlS...@geocities.com> wrote:
>What makes you think I want to restrict myself to playing in the "proper
>key"? "Key's" have their place, but when you're playing in a situation
>where
>you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
>percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
>becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don't
>need them for solo work.
You definitely need to hear some live Dead tapes, particularly the
"Space" sections of the shows (ask a Deadhead, they'll explain). You
also need to buy Can's "Tago Mago," Amon Duul II's "Yeti," and
anything by Captain Beefheart...You're ready for the scary music now.
Mark
<JarlS...@geocities.com> wrote:
>Interesting stuff, Findlay. Unfortunately there is one missing ingredient
>to you music which must be added for your band to go over the top.
>What it needs is a sexy 6 foot blond Bonnie Raitt style female slide
>guitarist with a legalistic mind. If you meet anyone who fits that
>description, be sure to offer her a position in your band.
Offer her a position in the band? Hell, I'll propose to her.
Frank Hudson
understand any explanation of Ornette's "harmelodics" until I suddently
released as a player (rather than as a listener) that it is music
arranged through melody lines instead of harmonically. Instead of "big
rich chord >> what notes do I play that fit into the environment of the
chord and still fulfill my melodic intentions" it's "what melody line
relates to the the other melody lines".
A lot of Beefheart works the same way.
Yes, some music played this way can sound really "out". But you can also
play pretty, consonant music with this structure.
In article <37463dd8...@news.msy.bellsouth.net>, kyno...@yahoo.com
says...
--Frank Hudson
remove "x" when replying
John Sheehy
mul...@NOSPAMnull.net (Agent Mulder) wrote :
>
>Well without getting too technical:
>Let's say you write a song that has random chords that are comprised
>of random notes that you figured sounded good together. Now say you
>want to solo over it...or more realistically, you want to sing a
>melody to the chords. Do you create your own scale made from the
>chords that you have already created or do you try to plug in one of
>the modes of the major scale?
I listen to it, and start hearing melodies. If I get conscious about
it, I might start giving myself general instructions on the contour,
and/or rhythms of dissonance/consonance.
If I pick up the guitar, and am playing over a complicated unfamiliar
chord progression, I generally avoid diving into the downbeats with bold
statements; by the time the next beat comes I have my bearings, and once
I've memorized the harmonic patterns, I can dive into the downbeats as
well.
>Or do you mindlessly sing random notes
>to top off your random song? LOL
What are you laughing at? I improvise over complex structures, and I
don't need to consult the structure, like figuring out what chords are
happening or implied, or what key(s) is(are) being used or implied to
make coherent and interesting musical statements in context. In fact, I
think it is very important to improvise in the "dark" with only your
ears to guide you. You get much less "ear exercise" if you pay
attention to theory exclusively when you improvise. Any primate with a
good memory can learn to play the correct "safe" notes once the harmonic
structure is known. In fact, the bad reputation that mid-80s hard rock
has with a lot of people is probably due to the proliferation of deaf
paint-by-numbers players who play monotonous streams of fast scales that
match the chords. They often sound like someone pressed a single button
that said "D minor guitar arpeggio" or "D Aeolian guitar run", with
another button for harmonic squeal, and a dive-bomb button as well.
>If you think of it this way, you realize it's much easier to use
>contemporary music theory than to invent your own version of music
>theory while you write your tunes.
Any innovative improvisor or composer adds to the object of music
theory, whether they get a paragraph or not.
>I'm not saying that you have to box
>yourself into these set laws of harmonics...i venture outside of them
>myself all the time to make the music a little more unpredictable.
>Just make sure you have a solid understanding of fundamental theory
>before you start throwing hundreds of years of research and study out
>the window. Beethoven wouldn't approve :-)
I'm sure Beethoven relied on intuition as much as he did music theory.
If that were not true, computers programmed with music theory could
write music of that magnitude.
Never stuff your intuition in the closet to make room for music theory;
your intuitions are *yours*; don't waste them. Theory is simply a means
to be able to come up with ideas that intuition alone would not provide,
and it is also a guide for making "safe" but boring music, for those
without enough intuition to make a coherent musical statement.
The most powerful potion is a balanced combination of tuition and
intuition, and that balance varies from individual to individual.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
James
that I know absolutely nothing about keys. Nor do I now anything about
musical theory except for a bunch of scales that I never practice
anyways. Eventually I'm going to sit down and learn all of this
stuff--probably this summer--but as far as singing and playing over
"random chords" you just have to be creative and stick with what
sounds good. I've been playing for about 5 years and I've been writing
my own songs for about 2. I play acoustic rock and sometimes get into
some folky stuff, but my main influences are people like REM, the
Counting Crows and so on, so it's not like I'm throwing together some
shitty punk song either. Lately I've been getting some really well put
together songs out my writing. I've been doing some preforming lately
and I'm going into a studio starting on Tuesday and recording a CD and
I've heard loads of positive feedback. When you have music sitting
there and want to sing lyrics to them, just start singing...after a
while (and it you know what I mean in a very short while) you'll
really start to hear what is sounding good and what isn't. It's very
natural and you can totally tell the difference. Then after you get
the basic melody just keep going and add some things in. Same goes
with soloing and I agree without keys and scales it does get a bit
trickier but it basically boils down to this: you know what sounds
good and what doesn't...stick with it. If you friend is playing an F
chord and you hit a "b" over top and it doesn't sound good, well now
you know to try something else...it really becomes a game of hit and
miss. And about your reference to "Random chords," if they sound good
together, then you're pretty likely to find a scale or key or mode or
whatever with those notes together in them...there are reasons these
sound good together. But again, who cares what key or scale or mode or
whatever they sit in if they sound good and you're having fun!
-James-
On Sat, 22 May 1999 20:09:26 GMT, jsh...@ix.netcom.com (John Sheehy)
wrote:
Desp4BiGrL
>Here's my two cents about writing music. Let me start off by saying
>that I know absolutely nothing about keys. Nor do I now anything about
>musical theory except for a bunch of scales that I never practice
>anyways
i'm thinking you *have* to know scales for it to be music, no?
ljstarin
from start to finish in his head, as the complete compositions, before he
ever wrote them down. Which, would likely mean, he wrote from inspiration,
and not theory.
John Sheehy wrote in message <376f0936...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
Findlay
are playing some form of a scale. Whether you understand theory or not.
When I solo I don't technically know what I'm doing but I've played long
enough that I can stay in key. If someone who was trained in theory
listened to one of my solos I'm sure they could tell me what I'm doing.
"singing and playing over > "random chords"
would be damn ugly). You could also drive blindfolded but you'd probably
hit something.
"I agree without keys and scales it does get a bit> trickier
certain notes you can sing/play and certain notes you can't. It's kind of
like the law of gravity. No matter who you are it applies to you.
Otherwise we have friggin anarchy!!
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
James <jke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3748661f...@news.cadvision.com...
James
>>From: jke...@hotmail.com (James)
>
>>Here's my two cents about writing music. Let me start off by saying
>>that I know absolutely nothing about keys. Nor do I now anything about
>>musical theory except for a bunch of scales that I never practice
>>anyways
>
>i'm thinking you *have* to know scales for it to be music, no?
You have to know scales? What are you talking about? Music isn't
defined as the knowledge of scales. Lots of musical artists, even some
popular ones, don't resort to scales every time they write a song. If
I'm fucking around with some chords and I see that Em-C-G sounds good
together, I'll play it without consulting a scale to see if I should
be or not.
-James-
spiff1242
music theory the whole study of music and how certain arangements of tones
sound 'right' to the human mind? Well if you play some notes and it sounds
'right' to you, it's as good as playing it in a scale. And with all these
scales, a song that you make that sounds right is probably already in a key.
Findlay <fin...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:SqP13.20259$r_1.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca...
ljstarin
stimuli, that people like to hear music in it's proper key. It is
inescapable and can't be altered just because you would like it to be. Not
to say that everything about the brain has been discovered yet, but that
people have been using what sounds right as a way of correlating theory to
reality for a very long time, as far as human history goes. I don't think
that playing, what is perceived as nonsense, will alter the evolutionary
process all that much. I am not saying you are playing nonsense, only that
your idea is leaving the door wide open. Most likely, during your sonic
explorations, if you come across something good, it will conform to musical
theory. Of course this only my opinion and, although it is probably shared
by countless thousands of learned musicians and composers, you could be on
to something, and it would be a shame to let that stop you from your quest.
JarlSigurd wrote in message <0lZ13.44845$134.3...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...
>The way I see it, if you are playing in a group situation where
>there are more than one lead instrument, e.g. two guitars,
>guitar-sax, guitar-keyboards, its important to stay in key.
>If, however, one is playing in a power trio situation(guitar
>bass, drums) where the guitar is the only lead instrument,
>there's no need to worry about keys. There's a zillion
>different scales and melodic patterns you can experiment
>with. There's no need to limit oneself to majors and minors.
>Major's and minors lend themselves well to situations where
>harmonization is a must. But if there's no need to harmonize
>your lead guitar playing with anyone elses, why not abandon
>those overused scales and experiment with some less
>commonly used ones
>
>Jarl Sigurd
>
>To listen to my experimentation with enneatonic(9 tone)
>scales, visit: http://geocities.com/SunstStrip/Pavilion/4085
>
>
>
>
spiff1242 wrote in message ...
Findlay
Like how you tune. This is not normally considered good noise.
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
spiff1242 <spif...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rB%13.7860$zB3....@news.rdc1.pa.home.com...
FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA
: percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
t
Polfus
>From: al76...@academ03.mty.itesm.mx (FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA )
Absolutely, and well said. I agree 100%.
Polfus
John Sheehy
al76...@academ03.mty.itesm.mx (FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA ) wrote :
>: you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
>: percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
>: becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don'o
>Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
>either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
Nonsense. Keys are very familiar and traditional, but they don't have a
monopoly on melody.
Mark
>>Subject: Re: Are Keys Really Necessary?
>>From: al76...@academ03.mty.itesm.mx (FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA )
>>
>>: you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
>>: percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
>>: becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don'o
>>
>>
>>Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
>>either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
>
>Absolutely, and well said. I agree 100%.
So I take it you're not into stuff like Ornette Coleman or Sun Ra or
anything like that...or for that matter, Frank Zappa...
Basically what Jarl is talking about is very close to some of the
musical theory ideas that John Coltrane, Ornette, Sun Ra, etc. were
trying out in the 60s and 70s. He's just coming at it from his own
angle.
Polfus
>>>Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
>>>either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
>>
>>Absolutely, and well said. I agree 100%.
>
>
>So I take it you're not into stuff like Ornette Coleman or Sun Ra or
>anything like that...or for that matter, Frank Zappa...
I do not think that Frank Zappa's music is "pure percussive or pure cacophony".
Do you?
And I personally think that Zappa's music was *extremely* structured, despite
how it may be perceived...he was *that* talented to make it sound like
"experimentation"...but even though the music was original, his methods of
employing them were not. And by the way, I grew up listening to Zappa.
Peace,
Polfus
Greg Jones
Mark McDonald <m...@sonic.net> writes:
|> JarlSigurd wrote:
|> >
|> > Agent Mulder wrote in message <3744db80.501486@news>...
|> > >Let's say you write a song that has random chords that are comprised
|> > >of random notes that you figured sounded good together. Now say you
|> > >want to solo over it...or more realistically, you want to sing a
|> > >melody to the chords. Do you create your own scale made from the
|> > >chords that you have already created or do you try to plug in one of
|> > >to top off your random song? LOL
I'd like to see an example chord progression but most of the time, if
you randomly play some chords together because you think they sound
good, then they're probably conforming to a key (or keys).
But assuming that the chords aren't in the same key, say you play b
half-diminished followed by F# dom 7 you could make up your own scale.
In the above example, b half-diminished is in the key of C major and F#
dom 7 is in the key of B major. You could also switch between these two
scales depending upon which chord you're playing over.
|>In Replyto Jarl, Makr McDonald wrote:
|> I listened to you "keyless stuff". I think it would be a great
|> example for a beginning theory class to demonstrate why songs stay in
|> one key as oppossed to wondering all over the board.
|>
To my ears, keyless music is inventive and unique if used sparingly. If
it dominates the music though, it gets just as predicable and boring as
music which stays in one key all of the time.
Most keyless music that I've heard has no dynamics. If you want to
experiment in keyless music, try adding dynamics. That would be more
unique because it's rare.
I find keyless music to sound chaotic. This sound has it's place. For
me, it breaks up the monotony of the order provided by music that
conforms to a key. But I like it best when used in moderation.
Greg
**********************************************************
"Greg's Music Theory Page"
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/palladium/6197
**********************************************************
FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA
: On 24 May 1999 01:39:28 GMT, pol...@aol.com (Polfus) wrote:
: >>Subject: Re: Are Keys Really Necessary?
: >>From: al76...@academ03.mty.itesm.mx (FELIX ACOSTA CARRANZA )
: >>
: >>: you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
: >>: percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
: >>: becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don'o
: >>
: >>
: >>Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
: >>either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
: >
: >Absolutely, and well said. I agree 100%.
: So I take it you're not into stuff like Ornette Coleman or Sun Ra or
: anything like that...or for that matter, Frank Zappa...
: Basically what Jarl is talking about is very close to some of the
: musical theory ideas that John Coltrane, Ornette, Sun Ra, etc. were
: trying out in the 60s and 70s. He's just coming at it from his own
: angle.
I didn't say it was wrong, but if you aren't playing any melody, then what the
hell are you doing in your instrument?
What I meant when I said that if you weren't playing in any key, I meant
any familiar or unfamiliar key.
Coltrane did play in key, very complex stuff, and it had a percussive ring to
it.
Doesn't mean it sounds bad....
I didn't mean that you shouldn't play around and use unusual notes, because then, the music would become predictible. But you need a melody, you need to use
the same notes to accentuate a melody. If you aren't accentuating any melody
then the music is purely percussive I believe, or if you are out of time, then
I believe that's cacophony.
I don't mean I don't use it. I use a lot of chromatic stuff, flat and sharp
notes, diminished tones, etc..
But to get some sense out of it, I need to resolve on familiar notes. Like a third or a fifth or a seventh..
Of course, that is in my case, but there is no formula. Sometimes even cacophony
is refreshing.
uspended notes
Just my two cents.
I
je...@nospamop.net
John Sessoms
You really need to relax; get away from it all for a while.
Why don't you just get yourself a cup of warm milk, and have a nice nap? ;-D
Findlay wrote:
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA
> I weeel keeeel you!!!! AAHHHHHHHGJJJJJJ Know one mentions the love of my
> life Shania and lives to tell the tale!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH
> I will have you shania if it's the last thing I ever do
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!OJHOJHD)QWJDOH(HC)_Y
> --
John Sessoms
day stand at Knickbocker Arena in Albany, and I believe it includes Space/Drums.
Findlay
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
John Sessoms <jses...@nospam.pagesz.net> wrote in message
news:374997F8...@nospam.pagesz.net...
Findlay
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
John Sessoms <jses...@nospam.pagesz.net> wrote in message
news:3749975B...@nospam.pagesz.net...
Chip of Known Space
>Basically what Jarl is talking about is very close to some of the
>musical theory ideas that John Coltrane, Ornette, Sun Ra, etc. were
>trying out in the 60s and 70s. He's just coming at it from his own
>angle.
There's a difference between venturing outside the key and dismissing
it altogether.
Chip McDonald
]]] Chip McDonald - ch...@mindspring.com
]]] "Try to be reasonable whenever possible"
]]] http://www.mindspring.com/~chipm/chip.htm
]]] I teach guitar - check out http://www.mindspring.com/~chipm/lessons.htm
]]] Musician, voracious reader, overly contemplative thinker, punching bag for fate.
]]] "People think I'm in my own world; that's ok, they know me there" - J. Hodgson
Chip of Known Space
wrote:
>sound 'right' to the human mind? Well if you play some notes and it sounds
>'right' to you, it's as good as playing it in a scale.
The real existential statement is: you can't play some notes and it
*not* be in a scale. You might not be aware of what the scale is, but
never the less - it "is".
John Sessoms
Findlay wrote:
>
> OAHOH(AOHCX){N}" ADXAAX{PAJUX)OJO
>
Findlay
--
Sonic1
Sonic Revival Homepage
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/8856/
John Sessoms <jses...@nospam.pagesz.net> wrote in message
news:374AC848...@nospam.pagesz.net...
John Sheehy
ch...@mindspring.com (Chip of Known Space) wrote :
>There's a difference between venturing outside the key and dismissing
>it altogether.
Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, per se.
Adrian Clark
> When you play two notes that are dissonant to each other you can hear it.
> Like how you tune. This is not normally considered good noise.
But "dissonant" doesn't necessarily mean "out of tune". Play a harmonic
major seventh interval, such as...
|-7--
|----
|-5--
|----
|----
|----
Now, even with your guitar perfectly in tune, that's what we call a
"harsh dissonance" (the minor second is another example). And it's a
perfectly good building block for making music.
Adrian
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Adrian Clark
> : you are the only lead instrument and the only accompanyment is of a
> : percussive nature, playing within the confines of the major or minor keys
> : becomes unnecessary. Keys are for playing duets, trios etc. You don'o
>
> Not necessarily. If you aren't playing in any key, then the music becomes
> either purely percussive or pure cacophony.
I wouldn't call Webern's later string quartets "pure cacophony". Or
percussive (although he does sometimes use percussive sounds among the
non-percussive sounds).
Adrian
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John Sheehy
ch...@mindspring.com (Chip of Known Space) wrote :
>On Sun, 23 May 1999 22:48:55 GMT, "spiff1242" <spif...@home.com>
>wrote:
>>sound 'right' to the human mind? Well if you play some notes and it sounds
>>'right' to you, it's as good as playing it in a scale.
>The real existential statement is: you can't play some notes and it
>*not* be in a scale. You might not be aware of what the scale is, but
>never the less - it "is".
You can define and set of pitches as a subset of a "scale", true, but
this is a unidirectional phenomenon, because you can't derive the rules
of the particular song from the "scale". If I play 3 measures of E
major arpeggios, and 1 measure of F major arpeggios, repeatedly, you
might conclude that I was playing in E HM5 (or spanish phrygian, or
whatever), but you'd have a hell of a time getting someone to play
anything even remotely similar if you told them "play something in E
HM5". If I decided that I was going to play through the cycle of 4ths,
deterministically for the notes, improvising octave and rhythm, I'd play
all 12 notes, an equal number of times. What would you get by calling
this the chromatic scale, and asking someone to play something in the
chromatic scale?
We could get really nuts and say I played F# major pentatonic ( F# C# G#
D# A# ) alternating with F Lydian ( F C G D A E B ), but something would
still not be right.
I am not sold on the idea of "scale" as a necessity in music, in the way
that "scale" is commonly used. A set of internal rules that gives a
piece coherency, I can buy, but not "scale". "Scale" does not tell you
enough to be very descriptive.
Your statement implies that all music uses a particular collection of
notes. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. When they disagree, I
think they usually either mean that music doesn't have to use one of the
more common collection of pitches, that the artist does not have to be
conscious of scales to make music, or that it does not to have scalar
motion within it.
ljstarin
slow it down enough, to the point where each note becomes the key, it's
called New Age music.
John Sheehy wrote in message <374b0c0a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>In message <374a4d36...@news.mindspring.com>,
>>it altogether.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, per se.
ljstarin
is the minor 2nd., followed by the flat 5th.
Adrian Clark wrote in message
<1dsdoht.1j...@p84.nas6.is2.u-net.net>...
>Findlay <fin...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
>> When you play two notes that are dissonant to each other you can hear it.
>> Like how you tune. This is not normally considered good noise.
>
Chip of Known Space
wrote:
>In message <374a4d36...@news.mindspring.com>,
>ch...@mindspring.com (Chip of Known Space) wrote :
>
>>There's a difference between venturing outside the key and dismissing
>>it altogether.
>Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, per se.
No, but one shouldn't get mad if people find it too far out....
Michael Collins
Mike C.
Adrian Clark
> Nothing wrong with it, unless you happening to be listening to it. If you
> slow it down enough, to the point where each note becomes the key, it's
> called New Age music.
I dunno, though - the New Age music I've heard has always been tonal and
diatonic, not to mention outrageously cliched and unimaginative.
I'd love to record a New Age relaxation/meditation album which suddenly
went violently, slashingly atonal half-way through. "Tonight we report
the mysterious deaths of several New Age hippy loonies, believed to have
died of fright from their own visualisations..."
Adrian
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