Locking Nut Tremolo? Pros and Cons?
Jarl Sigurd
I noticed a 1980's Gibson Explorer at a local pawnshop that
comes with a factory installed Kahler Tremolo with a Locking
Nut attachment. I'm curious, what are the pros and cons of having
one of these locking nut devices on a tremolo system. Also what
is the word on Gibson guitars with the Tremolos. Are they considered
to have been a good or bad thing on set neck Gibsons.
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a classical guitar concerto composed
by me, visit: http://www.ampcast.com/JarlSigurd
Mr Scary
Kahler Flyer - which was pretty popular in the 80s before the Floyd Rose
took off.
I didn't like them - they felt floppy, but others loved them.
It is all down to taste. Play the guitar, and if you like it - go for it!
A friend of mine had a hand made Exploror (made by a local luthier) in the
80s, this he sprayed candy apple red and stuck a gold kahler on it - the
reason he chose the kahler was the fact that the body wasn't thick enough to
support a Floyd...he loved it - till it got stolen.
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:dVE27.44397$TW.2...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
Dr. Evil
Jarl Sigurd
>
> I can't express in words on how much of a moron I think you really are.
Then why don't you get your "Mini-Me" to do it for you?
Jarl Sigurd
To listen to a guitarist whose screen name is NOT derived
from Austin Powers, visit: http://www.ampcast.com/JarlSigurd
Frank Hudson
jarls...@geocities.com says...
>
> I noticed a 1980's Gibson Explorer at a local pawnshop that
> comes with a factory installed Kahler Tremolo with a Locking
> Nut attachment. I'm curious, what are the pros and cons of having
> one of these locking nut devices on a tremolo system. Also what
> is the word on Gibson guitars with the Tremolos. Are they considered
> to have been a good or bad thing on set neck Gibsons.
>
In general they are considered sustain-stealers and probably lower the
value of the instrument to the general market. Also Kahlers are out of
fashion and I'm not sure about continued parts availability. To the
buying contrarian this means the guitar could be "a deal". Use the
majorities' opinions to try to lower the price?
That said, the Kahler Pro trem was a pretty good design and some heavy
trem users really liked them (Adrian Belew used to use them for
example). I have a couple of Kahler equipped guitars, one Pro and one
Flyer. The Flyer is not a solid a piece of equipment at least as I see
it, but the Pro unit bothers me hardly at all. I don't have a similar
guitar to each model to say if how they affect the sound, but neither
guitar with the Kahler sounds bad. What you ought to do it try the
guitar if you're thinking of buying it, and see what you think.
-Frank Hudson
remove the "x" when replying
Web page with sound samples and the "So You Want to Buy A Guitar FAQ":
http://www.users.uswest.net/~fhudson/
Ross M Stites
>In general they are considered sustain-stealers and probably lower the
>value of the instrument to the general market. Also Kahlers are out of
>fashion and I'm not sure about continued parts availability. To the
>buying contrarian this means the guitar could be "a deal". Use the
>majorities' opinions to try to lower the price?
Good advice.
>That said, the Kahler Pro trem was a pretty good design and some heavy
>trem users really liked them (Adrian Belew used to use them for
>example). I have a couple of Kahler equipped guitars, one Pro and one
>Flyer. The Flyer is not a solid a piece of equipment at least as I see
>it, but the Pro unit bothers me hardly at all. I don't have a similar
>guitar to each model to say if how they affect the sound, but neither
>guitar with the Kahler sounds bad. What you ought to do it try the
>guitar if you're thinking of buying it, and see what you think.
I agree. I had both...the problem here is that I believe Gibson used the
cheaper Flyer model on their factory installs, so this is probably what's
on the Explorer. In the 80's I had a black Explorer with a Kahler Flyer
and it was ok, but it definitely had a mushy sound. I never was sure if
it was the trem or the Dirty Fingers pickups... I had a Pro on a Robin and
it was a great trem and one I'd recommend. My only problem with it was
that it feels completely different from a Floyd and that's what all my
other guitars have.
Ross
Chris DeRusseau
your guitar is hopelessly out of tune until you replace it. Some
non-locking types also do this, but at least you can twist a tuner to get
back. Doesn't really matter, everyone usually has extra guitars around for
this. I usually break at least 2 strings a nite!!
John Sessoms
>
> I noticed a 1980's Gibson Explorer at a local pawnshop that
> comes with a factory installed Kahler Tremolo with a Locking
> Nut attachment. I'm curious, what are the pros and cons of having
> one of these locking nut devices on a tremolo system. Also what
> is the word on Gibson guitars with the Tremolos. Are they considered
> to have been a good or bad thing on set neck Gibsons.
>
Pro - They really LOOK cool.
Con - They're a pain in the fundament.
IIRC, the guy who invented the Bigsby vibrato was working at Gibson at
the time.
--
I do not speak for any government, corporation or organization,
I have trouble enough speaking for myself.
If I seem to ignore your posting and/or response to mine,
it's because my current news feed isn't very good and I
probably didn't see it.
Sorry 'bout that.
John Sessoms
John Heinz
I have had Kahlers on guitars with and without the locking nut, and I feel
that with a well made nut and high quality tuners the locking nut is not
needed unless you do heavy "dive bomb" vibrato wanking. I set up my SG with
a Kahler and the lock, as well as a Guild x-79, and the main problem I find
is that changing strings is much more difficult, as you have to find the
little Allen wrench to unlock the things, and the ball end slips out of the
little Y shaped string holder sometimes while you are running the string
through the lock nut and winding the string. Then after you tune the guitar
and lock the strings down, you have to retune it since locking them down
changed the tension a little. And you have to watch how much you have to
adjust the fine tuners before you lock it down or you will run out of travel
and have to unlock the thing to readjust the fine tuners, then tune it
again. Once you have it tuned and locked and the strings stretched, it will
stay in tune for quite a while unless you break one of the strings,
sometimes for months with minor fine tuning.
I never noticed much difference between the set neck trems and boltons other
than that they are usually different style vibratos and have different
spring tensions and pivot areas, so the feel is a bit different.
I have an old Epiphone with the coronet style body and 3 per side headstock
that I put a Kahler on with a nice brass nut, large body Grover tuners, and
Duncan pickups, and with no lock nut it stays in tune fine and the vibrato
works great.
Gibson stopped using the Kahlers, so I suppose not many people liked them
that much, but I did. They are back in business again too, I just ran into
their website the other day, with a new style vibrato, and no word on
support for the old gear.
J Heinz
Dan Stanley
"John Sessoms" <jses...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3B4D0C...@pobox.com...
> Jarl Sigurd wrote:
> >
> > I noticed a 1980's Gibson Explorer at a local pawnshop that
> > comes with a factory installed Kahler Tremolo with a Locking
> > Nut attachment. I'm curious, what are the pros and cons of having
> > one of these locking nut devices on a tremolo system. Also what
> > is the word on Gibson guitars with the Tremolos. Are they considered
> > to have been a good or bad thing on set neck Gibsons.
> >
>
> Pro - They really LOOK cool.
>
> Con - They're a pain in the fundament.
>
> IIRC, the guy who invented the Bigsby vibrato was working at Gibson at
> the time.
I don't think so. That was Paul Bigsby. A loner, a rebel. I think his day
gig was machining parts for motorcycles or something. He built a guitar for
Merle Travis early on, a solidbody...this is pre-Telecaster...and it had a
six-on-a-side headstock not unlike what the Strat ended up with ( the big
headstock version). [ Fender was just down the road from Bigsby, if I
remember right].
Anyway, he was his own guy, and I'm pretty sure he started "Bigsby" the
tremolo making company on his own. Eventually, though, Ted McCarty ran
it...that was after McCarty left Gibson.
I could be utterly wrong, though.
Dan
Ron Thompson
>
> "John Sessoms" <jses...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:3B4D0C...@pobox.com..
> > >
> > > I noticed a 1980's Gibson Explorer at a local pawnshop that
> > > comes with a factory installed Kahler Tremolo with a Locking
> > > Nut attachment. I'm curious, what are the pros and cons of having
> > > one of these locking nut devices on a tremolo system. Also what
> > > is the word on Gibson guitars with the Tremolos. Are they considered
> > > to have been a good or bad thing on set neck Gibsons.
> > >
> >
> > Pro - They really LOOK cool.
> >
> > Con - They're a pain in the fundament.
> >
> > IIRC, the guy who invented the Bigsby vibrato was working at Gibson at
> > the time.
>
> I don't think so. That was Paul Bigsby. A loner, a rebel.
Aye.
> I think his day gig was machining parts for motorcycles or something.
Pattern maker. Was the announcer at the motorcycle races.
> He built a guitar for Merle Travis early on, a solidbody...
Merle met him at the above mentioned motorcycle races, showed him what he
wanted. Bigsby had already built a pedal steel or two by that time. Maybe
only one.
> this is pre-Telecaster...and it had a six-on-a-side headstock not unlike what
> the Strat ended up with ( the big headstock version).
Yeah, sorta Les Paul-y looking ugly thing with a bigass headstock on it.
> [ Fender was just down the road from Bigsby, if I remember right].
Yeah, you had to make sure you passed that gas station on the right. The turn
came up on you fast. If you got to the Drug Store, you went too far.
> Anyway, he was his own guy, and I'm pretty sure he started "Bigsby" the
> tremolo making company on his own.
Yeah, after he got pissed because Leo was glomming all the guitar work.
Pauls were One At A Time things, Leos' were Assembly Line Mass Produced Not
Even CNC Machined junk.
> Eventually, though, Ted McCarty ran it...that was after McCarty left Gibson.
Is that what happened?
> I could be utterly wrong, though.
You ain't.
--
rct
The opinions above are mine and mine alone.
Frank Hudson
> Gibson stopped using the Kahlers, so I suppose not many people liked them
> that much, but I did. They are back in business again too, I just ran into
> their website the other day, with a new style vibrato, and no word on
> support for the old gear.
> J Heinz
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