What kind of shielded wire should be used for guitar internal connections?
Jack W
I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use shielded
wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded wire/cable should I use?
Is coaxial cable any good? I think best would be some that has the least
capacitance and resistance, what shoud I go for?
Many thanks for answers,
and best regards,
-Jack
Mark Bedingfield
> Hi,
>
> I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use shielded
> wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded wire/cable should I use?
> Is coaxial cable any good? I think best would be some that has the least
> capacitance and resistance, what shoud I go for?
I've used shielded, PVC and cloth in a few projects. Never heard a
difference in any of them after I'd changed the wire, also not seen a
difference in hum either. I do keep the lengths to a minimum mind you.
Mostly Strat's and Tele's in my case, vintage style pups. All I reckon
is use a decent gauge and keep it short. Shield the cavities if
interference is a problem or use EMG's, then it won't matter ;-)
Mark
WB
> Many thanks for answers,
>
>
http://www.stewmac.com/
castleb...@att.net
"Jack W" <do...@post.here> wrote in message
news:gig2it$74p$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
For those short distances I do not think it matters.
Bob
RichL
Capacitance effects are completely negligible over those short
distances.
I've used braid-shielded wire for the longer runs inside guitar cavities
(e.g., pot-to-jack) but for short connection it just makes it harder to
work. Don't use cable where the outer shield is also insulated, it
simply makes the wire thicker and harder to work with. It's pointless.
jimmy
Are emg's as quiet as you can get?
Nil
> Are emg's as quiet as you can get?
Maybe, maybe not. They are resistant to RF noise, but their internal
amplifier generates some noise of it's own.
jimmy
My tele has emg's & it's dead quiet. "Internal amplifier"?? Man, I
gotta read up on these things.
Nil
> My tele has emg's & it's dead quiet. "Internal amplifier"?? Man, I
> gotta read up on these things.
Each pickup has a small amplifier built in - that's why they require a
battery. The internal amplifiers produce a small amount of hiss, which
can become more noticeable when amplified with a high-gain amp.
jimmy
I sent the following to Nil via email by mistake...sorry Nil.
Really, a battery??? I had no idea. Like a 9 volt somewhere under
the pickguard or are they right in the pup? It's not clear from EMG's
web site.
I'm not sure if mine are the EMG-T or TC set.
thanks,
tony
~~~~~~~
Now that I look closer at the diagram I do see the 9 volt battery
clip. Good to know that I should change that up every now & then.
Would they be completely dead when the battery dies or just go
passive? I'm guessing passive but, a buddy has a peavey bass that
does go dead when the battery dies. We found that out the hard way.
tony
The Repair Guy
>Now that I look closer at the diagram I do see the 9 volt battery
>clip. Good to know that I should change that up every now & then.
>Would they be completely dead when the battery dies or just go
>passive?
They sound crappy and then die. There is no passive mode.
The Repair Guy
repairguy1993 dot netfirms dot com
Nil
The pickups gradually get noisier and weaker. Eventually they would go
completely dead. I've never let it get that far - it's obvious when
they are going. A 9V battery will last a good long time - several
months, at least - as long as you remember to unplug the cable from the
guitar (the jack functions as the on/off switch).
I also have a Peavey bass (Dynabass) with a built-in preamp. You can
bypass the preamp and operate it in passive mode, which would be a good
thing if the battery went dead at an inconvenient time.
Lee Waun
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B796728...@85.214.105.209...
Plus they suck out all of the guitars natural tone and replace it with EMG
noise. :-)
jimmy
wrote:
Heh, someone said that it's not a tele anymore!
Nil
> Heh, someone said that it's not a tele anymore!
Some people claim that ANY deviation from the original Tele design
makes it "not a Tele". I say, Who fuckin' cares, if it sounds good.
But it's certainly NOT true that "they suck out all of the guitars
natural tone" and "replace" it with anything. EMGs are clean, accurate,
medium-high-output pickups. They have some character of their own, as
do all pickups, but they are generally fairly neutral.
jimmy
Mine sounds great to me thru both the epi vj and fender bj. It also
has string saver saddles, so definitely not stock. It's purdy as hell
too! Teal with maple neck. Probably the only bad thing I've found is
the laquer (varnish?) is blistered a bit along the skunk stripe. It
is 15 years old though & I'm sure I can clean that up with a little
fine steel wool. I've steel wooled the neck on several of my guitars
with really nice results. It does dull the finish a tad but to me the
babys' ass smoothness is worth it.
tony
Les Cargill
Not much. I have 'em on a PBass.
--
Les Cargill
RichL
But you're not usually driving a high-gain signal chain with a bass, so
it's less noticeable.
Mark Bedingfield
As quiet as I've got ;-) Clean I can't tell if the volume is up or down
between songs. With overdrive/distortion they rawk. I have EMG DG20's in
Strat number 2 and EMG-T's in my Affinity Tele. There is no mistaking
the Tele. It has a freaking huge cranking Tele tone. So no, its still
very much a Tele.
The DG20's have SPC mid boost and XPG treble/bass boost. Last rehearsal
my Rhythm player had dropped a Duncan JB into the bridge of his Strat.
Sounded damned good actually. I had no trouble keeping up with the
bridge/SPC combination mind you. Really cool. Sounded shit hot with my
Big Muff too.
Mark
Jim
Take it from an owner of three EMG equipped guitars: There is NO better
signal to noise ratio option out there.
Or, take it from EMG. They publish noise floors of -90 to -115 dBV for
strat type pickups, and -89 and -90 dBV on the Tele set. Cleaner than
the preamp section on any of my amps, I know!
Jim
I took it as a joke, with the smiley face attached.
I own a tele with the T set. It sounded good. I added an active EMG
VMC tone. It sounded GREAT, and is now super versatile.
The VMC is a semi-parametric mids. You get to select the tone center
frequency of between 300 and 3,000 Hz. Then you get to select the
boost/cut of - 12dB to +12 dB.
Jim
ANY amplifier stage adds noise. The noise floor of -89 dBV to -115 dBV
of the EMG pickup is far better than standard guitar gear.
So, when I use high gain, I grab my EMG 81/85 SG (Korina G-400) equipped
with the SPC and RPC active tones. It is noticeably quieter than
similar tone with my passive humbuckers. Which makes sense, because the
preamp stage in the EMG pickup is CLEANER than a tube amp!
Then you have the whole hum rejection, lower magnetic pull on the
strings, higher output, low impedance output... They are perfect for
DEAD clean work, or high gain.
For middle gain work (slight overdrive through vintage Marshall gain
levels), I do prefer passive Seymour Duncan pickups. But that's because
the Seymour Duncan's have their own frequency response characteristics,
where the EMG's are a flatter response with a wider bandwidth.
The passives just "do the blues" or classic rock tones easier. ...which
makes sense, because that's what the tones were born on!
Jim
> jimmy wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:03:58 +1100, Mark Bedingfield
>> <atar...@nomorespampleaseoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Jack W wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use
>>>> shielded wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded
>>>> wire/cable should I use? Is coaxial cable any good? I think best
>>>> would be some that has the least capacitance and resistance, what
>>>> shoud I go for?
>>> I've used shielded, PVC and cloth in a few projects. Never heard a
>>> difference in any of them after I'd changed the wire, also not seen a
>>> difference in hum either. I do keep the lengths to a minimum mind
>>> you. Mostly Strat's and Tele's in my case, vintage style pups. All I
>>> reckon is use a decent gauge and keep it short. Shield the cavities
>>> if interference is a problem or use EMG's, then it won't matter ;-)
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>> Are emg's as quiet as you can get?
>
> As quiet as I've got ;-) Clean I can't tell if the volume is up or down
> between songs. With overdrive/distortion they rawk. I have EMG DG20's in
> Strat number 2 and EMG-T's in my Affinity Tele. There is no mistaking
> the Tele. It has a freaking huge cranking Tele tone. So no, its still
> very much a Tele.
There is a hint more mids with the EMG setup on the Tele. But that can
be handled with the tone on the amp.
Really, the one thing that makes it not sound "tele-like" is the absence
of HUM and NOISE!
>
> The DG20's have SPC mid boost and XPG treble/bass boost. Last rehearsal
> my Rhythm player had dropped a Duncan JB into the bridge of his Strat.
> Sounded damned good actually. I had no trouble keeping up with the
> bridge/SPC combination mind you. Really cool. Sounded shit hot with my
> Big Muff too.
The SPC seems to hit just the right spot to make my Marshall really
sing. And there is no need for any sort of boost or OD or EQ pedal.
Just guitar > cable > Marshall. No passive single coil can do that.
RichL
Ah but isn't this an invalid comparison? You'd have to add the gain
associated with that first preamp stage to the noise floor of the pickup
to have a valid one, right?
Jim
Well, I use a small gauge Teflon coated shielded wire. Diameter is
still small, and it's easy to work with.
If you don't have the shield insulated, make sure it's away from all
connections. ...or you'll be wondering why no sound is coming out of
the guitar!
Jim
> RichL wrote:
>> Jack W <do...@post.here> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use
>>> shielded wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded
>>> wire/cable should I use? Is coaxial cable any good? I think best
>>> would be some that has the least capacitance and resistance, what
>>> shoud I go for?
>>>
>>> Many thanks for answers,
>>> and best regards,
>>>
>>> -Jack
>>
>> Capacitance effects are completely negligible over those short
>> distances.
>> I've used braid-shielded wire for the longer runs inside guitar cavities
>> (e.g., pot-to-jack) but for short connection it just makes it harder to
>> work. Don't use cable where the outer shield is also insulated, it
>> simply makes the wire thicker and harder to work with. It's pointless.
>>
>>
>
> Well, I use a small gauge Teflon coated shielded wire. Diameter is
> still small, and it's easy to work with.
You can see it being used here: http://tinyurl.com/pushpullmod
Note that you only need to ground one side of the shield. (That's for
the OP, I know that Rich knows all of this stuff).
Les Cargill
When I record with 'em, the noise floor is *way* down there.
--
Les Cargill
Jim
I'm not sure which way you meant this, so I'll cover both.
If you were referring to the "first preamp stage" as being part of the
active pickup: The figure IS the noise floor AFTER the EMG preamp. The
preamp is integral to the pickup.
If you were referring the fact that you'd have to add the noise of the
preamp stage in the amp. ...well, yeah. But net result will still be
cleaner than passives. Part of your gain is in the cleaner EMG preamp.
EMG's can do over a volt, easy. By the time you had your guitar
preamp raise the passive pickup level to match, it would be noisier.
Since they have a significantly higher output level than passive, and
since guitar amps are noisier than the EMG preamp, the net result is
that the EMG will sound cleaner than the passive. ...because your
noisier guitar amp is responsible for less gain.
Then you have the added feature of the EMG being shielded much better
than a guitar cable. With passives, there is no way around giving the
noise of the cable the same amount of gain as the guitar signal.
Or, put in another way: Since guitar amps are noisier than EMG preamps,
by the time you get the same perceived gain level out of a passive
pickup and guitar amp, you are both:
- amplifying more inherent noise coming in on the guitar cable, and
- adding more noise to the signal because the guitar amp is noisier than
the EMG preamp.
RichL
Gotcha. Your second guess at what I meant was what I intended.
All I was saying really was that you have to compare noise levels at the
same point in the signal chain. I may be underestimating the
differences in (amp) preamp gain settings in the two situations, having
never owned a guitar with actives. I have a bass with active
*electronics* but passive pickups and that's a different situation.
RichL
Yeah, I guess I'd make a distinction between that and "cable" (e.g., BNC
or the usual guitar cable). I may actually have that teflon-coated wire
in the guitars I've rewired; it's been a while since I opened one of
them up, but now that I see your pic I vaguely recall using the same
thing.
The point is that that stuff has a large capacitance per foot compared
with guitar cable but it doesn't matter since the lengths are so short.
Nil
alt.guitar:
> I took it as a joke, with the smiley face attached.
I did, too, but the joke perpetuates a misperception. EMGs have the
reputation of being "sterile", whatever that is. I wouldn't describe my
SAs as that at all. They color the sound less than some other pickups,
perhaps, but they still let the character of the guitar through. If
someone thinks their guitar sounds "sterile", I wouldn't necessarily
blame the EMGs.
Nil
alt.guitar:
> Take it from an owner of three EMG equipped guitars: There is NO
> better signal to noise ratio option out there.
I knew you couldn't resist.
Take it from me, I can hear some noise from them. It's not
objectionable, and it's less than most pickups, but it's there.
Les Cargill
Not really. More gain and lower noise earlier means lower noise
figures down the chain. The EMG pickups are just a passive
pickup with the preamp potted in.
--
Les Cargill
Mark Bedingfield
I'm still keen to drop an SPC into the Tele one day.
>
> Really, the one thing that makes it not sound "tele-like" is the absence
> of HUM and NOISE!
Agreed.
>
>>
>> The DG20's have SPC mid boost and XPG treble/bass boost. Last
>> rehearsal my Rhythm player had dropped a Duncan JB into the bridge of
>> his Strat. Sounded damned good actually. I had no trouble keeping up
>> with the bridge/SPC combination mind you. Really cool. Sounded shit
>> hot with my Big Muff too.
>
> The SPC seems to hit just the right spot to make my Marshall really
> sing. And there is no need for any sort of boost or OD or EQ pedal.
> Just guitar > cable > Marshall. No passive single coil can do that.
My amps solid state, no natural gain. Decent valves are well out of my
price range unfortunately. But it does sound pretty good with any of my
pedals. I found myself predominantly using the Big Muff on Thursday
night. First time with the band, it just worked, really throaty.
Mark
RichL
Don't the EMGs typically have much smaller resistances (i.e., fewer
windings)?
Les Cargill
Yes, but they present a much higher current source than even
overwound pickups because they're active. They'll drive anything.
The interconnect between the actual pickups and the op amp
is very short, and can be tightly controlled.
They also present a very moderate mag field, unlike the usual
hot pickups. They're not for everybody, but I really like 'em
for bass. My approach to bass is "hi fi" anyway, so the very
clean thing they do works for me.
--
Les Cargill
castleb...@att.net
"Jim" <j...@askmebeforeyousend.com> wrote in message
news:h6CdndEk0ukTstHU...@posted.isomediainc...
If you ground both ends of the shield it is no longer a shield. So
insulation over the shield might be a good idea.
Bob
Jim
...with less magnetic pull, shielded extremely well, with low impedance
higher voltage (and current) output...
Jim
Including effects loop returns or power amp in, but not usually to full
rated output.
Jim
Show me a guitar preamp with as much gain that beats a 90 dBV noise floor.
Jim
I've been talking about "gain" in the electrical sense of the word. The
true meaning of the word gain is simply amplification factor. If you
put in 10mV and get 1V out, you have a gain factor of 100.
Guitarists tend to use "gain" as distortion. But distortion is what
happens when you have too much gain.
Adams661
> Hi,
>
> I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use shielded
> wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded wire/cable should I use?
> Is coaxial cable any good? I think best would be some that has the least
> capacitance and resistance, what shoud I go for?
>
> and best regards,
>
> -Jack
I dont know about active pickups but with passives,shielded wire is a
waste of time. If you do use shielded only connect one end of the
shield to ground
or you will create a ground loop. Hum city
Jim
> On Dec 19, 4:03 am, "Jack W" <d...@post.here> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I want to replace the electronics in my Les Paul. I want to use shielded
>> wire for as much as possible. What kind of shielded wire/cable should I use?
>> Is coaxial cable any good? I think best would be some that has the least
>> capacitance and resistance, what shoud I go for?
>>
>> Many thanks for answers,
>> and best regards,
>>
>> -Jack
>
> I dont know about active pickups but with passives,shielded wire is a
> waste of time.
...if you live in a cave.
If you live near broadcast towers, around "green" fluorescent lighting,
other high RF/EMI areas, it *DOES* make a difference.
Steve Robinson
news:65754ea2-e709-4309...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Wrong there too. You won't induce hum in a passive guitar circuit. How would
it be generated?
Steve.
Don Evans
All that stuff should make me love them ... wonder why I don't ....
something about the dynamics maybe? Don't know.
Don
Don Evans
My Bill Lawrence 280 equipped Strat doesn't hiss. Not at all. Doesn't hum
either unless I'm holding it up to a neon sign or something. Just throwing
that in there.
Don
bg
Steve Robinson wrote in message ...
fingers ????
bg
castleb...@att.net
"Steve Robinson" <stephen.p.rob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:LEb3l.37404$Ci....@newsfe10.ams2...
I accidentally left my heart rate monitor on after doing my walk and it
shure was wierd.
Bob
Les Cargill
They're too linear. They're too clean. It's
the defects in circuits that have become cultural sonic
icons in music, not the stuff that's Correct.
If you were Les Paul and ran direct to the board, you'd
be golden - the EMG pickups present a relatively low impedance
source that couples very well.
But this is why I love 'em for bass.
--
Les Cargill