guitar world
Dean
decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
steve...@my-dejanews.com
dean.sch...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
Bad decade, if you agree with their choice. Which I don't. I think some good
stuff came out of the 90's and, while it may have some large footnotes
concerning Cobain and Grunge, time will remember a lot of other music as well.
Cobain was certainly an influential artist, perhaps perceived a bit more
influential and larger than life than he really was.
Such a short sporadic career as an artist and reluctant rock star. He really
did play a big part in the changing of music at the turning of the decade. He
took noisy punk energy and anger from the first wave, added some simple but
nice melodies and power pop chords or at least power chords that would
support the pop melodies (in certain parts of songs. He wasn't totally
original-several bands from all over influenced him. He was the guy with the
right sounding songs and style at the right time. He became the figurehead of
the movement that closed down the glitzty LA hair band/glam rock/technical
virtuoso school of corporate rock pretty quickly.
My humble opinion is his timing was perfect. People were just about fed up
with '80's rock. The late 80's early 90's saw an emergence of simpler music
perceived as more honest. Kurt and Nirvana had maybe the most impact (again
with a sporadic professional life and a tormented personal life lived out in
the pages of pop magazines from People to the Enquirer and TV shows from MTV
to Saturday Nite Live to David Letterman) Thus, it was easy to make him an
icon and his suicide kinda froze his place in music and perceived influences
on it in time, correct or not. If their is a "correct." It's really up to the
listener to decide, altho, as we've seen, the media is still milking it.
Importantly, the 90's also saw simpler honest music 'come back' not only from
Seattle or that genre, but all facets of pop and rock. 'Unplugged' (now a
cliche but very popular in the mid 90's) demonstrated that people Liked
hearing the songs without all the noise and production. That Nirvana had a
successful Unplugged outing sort of supports the 'simplicity' idea in 2 ways.
Their songs were simple and the songs/performances stood up in the acoustic
format. An old rule about a decent song or artist- If it sounds good
unplugged, it probably Is good.
A lot of other alt rock got a boost as the 90's music fans bought so much of
the music in the genre, that it became considered the "mainstream" current
music, vying with older established bands and dance music for music dollars.
The resurgance and acceptance of blues, from the increased popularity of SRV
in death, to the continuing popularity of Clapton and other top Blues or
Blues pop artists (Bonnie Raitt etc.) showed that music fans enjoyed and
supported this simple, emotional and, once again, popular genre. (I won't
debate the new kids-'blonde and blonder' here, only to say they are popular).
Another telling sign of the public's quest for simple music was the dramatic
re- tooling of country music to include rock elements in the early 90's. The
ensuing huge rise in the music's popularity, listenership and music sales
gave Country it's biggest growth surge ever. Some rock fans, weary of the
somewhat directionlessness in 90's rock, or not liking the one trend (grunge)
that briefly held the rock spotlight, either became big country fans or at
least began listening ocassionally to the once taboo music.
At this point, Country continues to court the pop market with several major
artists crossing over to pop charts, and the less and less of a difference
between some of current Nashville music and 70's rock and roll. I personally
enjoy this a lot. Although I don't like the economics and assembly line
approach involved in producing a lot of Nashville product, it is Guitar Based
music with some excellent players putting out great stuff on electric,
acoustic, slide in both styles, steel and dobro. Many of the singers and
songs are very good (some are average, just as in any genre.)
As far as current "rock" artists, if you go by record sales and concert
grosses, maybe (the 'not really rock', but talented) Dave Matthews is the
biggest thing happening. But here we go with that calendar thing again. He's
kinda peaking now, too late for the "arist of the 90's" and in 2010, he'll be
somewhat old news. Maybe artist of the year? And with the fragmentation of
music as has been discussed, it's very difficult for an artist to hit a lot
of the " demographic markets" that radio, TV and advertisers have divided us
into in order to specifically market certain products to certain groups (who
tend to listen to a certain music format.)
Ah, but the question about Kurt on GW.
Well, I probably shoulda started out by pointing out GW's target audience-
young male guitarists or wannabes. It doesn't rate to high on my list for
credibility, but I read all music and recording mags (also science fiction,
mystery and certain comic books). It's not the first time GW have used a
shocking subject (naming Cobain, in their opionion, "artist of the decade")
and a shocking picture (Kurt with a hand gun....guess it was above their
"ethics" to composite a picture of him with a shotgun...). They are simply
trying to sell magazines to keep their circulation up, so the sales
department can hit their advertising quota, the publisher remains happy and
the people who decide on what will covers and articles sell the magazine get
to keep their jobs.
I read a little bit of the tribute stuff, and part of an old interview with
Cobain and realized I had no interest in going thru it all again. I did catch
the line where he said (paraphrasing) that he didn't enjoy making music
anymore and hadn't for a long time. If he had lived, a junkie with a huge
monkey and some pretty big mental problems, we might view him and Nirvana
quite differently now.
Maybe like some of the original fans of (insert name of older supergroup here,
now considered sell outs or having 'lost it').
IMO
Steve
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Dethstryk
<dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
>decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
I think Guitar World is full of shit on this one. Kurt Cobain can suck
my balls.
--
Dethstryk
Music From Another Planet
magazine for 10 years. It used to be a great magazine full of mature
musicians and articles. Now it has nothing to do with music or guitar
playing. Seems to me that 4 letter words are more important for guitar
world these days. It funny that I as a guitar player get more out of
"Keyboard" magazine than I do out of most guitar mags thses days. I
think these magazines are an insult to guitarists in general because
they drag down the image of Guitar playing as a serious art and
obviously market their magazine to pubescant audiences. I mean you could
see it coming when they started those stupid readers poll.
Dean wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
--
Regards
Ivan Bertolla--Composer,Film Music,Arranger,MIDI Studio
Music From Another Planet
http://www.bertolla.com
email: off...@bertolla.com
ICQ 7934153
Debut Instrumental CD "Beyond The Skies Eternity"
mcke...@integnet.com
dean.sch...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
I think it reaffirms my opinion that Guitar World should be printed in one
long continuous roll, and kept next to the toilet.
Mike
Patrick F. Coleman
>On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:57:54 +0000, Dean
><dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
>>decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>I think Guitar World is full of shit on this one. Kurt Cobain can suck
>my balls.
well if that's all you care about your balls how can we really respect
your opinion on anything else?
Twang!
(just ribbing you.)
>--
>Dethstryk
/-)
saul_...@hotmail.com
dean.sch...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
Let me think.
Kurt Cobain symbolized many different things to me, personally. He
was a middle-class/ lower-class man who sang things that I could
relate about, with one of the widest variety of song subjects.
He pioneered a musical style, went (multi?)platinum with his albums,
yet was still a gentle, sweet guy, nonviolent and a good person.
He was an excellent guitar player, one capable of making a distorted
guitar sound like someone in pain. My Nirvana CDs are some of the
most treasured I have, right up there with Tool.
I think I can call Kurt Cobaine artist of the decade. I think it's
fitting for someone who had such a massive effect on music in the
'90's, and founded (basically) a new style of music.
The only other contender that I think would come close is possibly
James Hetfield... hmm. .... The more I think about it, the more
it seems Kurt is a shoe-in.
Saul Sabia
saul_...@hotmail.com
saul_...@hotmail.com
>
> >what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> >decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
> my balls.
I'll ignore your comments, and ask you 'Why do you think Kurt Cobain
should not be artist of the decade?'
I've already outlined why I think he should in another post.
Brian Rost
>
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:57:54 +0000, Dean
> <dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> >decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
> I think Guitar World is full of shit on this one. Kurt Cobain can suck
> my balls.
>
If he can do THAT, he REALLY desreves the award!!!
C'mon, like him or not (I don't) I can't honestly think of any other ONE
guitarist who had as much impact on rock music in the 90s.
After you get done having your balls sucked, perhaps you would care to
mention who YOU think would be worthy of such an award?
--
Brian Rost
3Com Corp.
978-264-1550
br...@synnet.com
*********************************************************************
Playing the bass is like dancing the limbo: how low can you go?
*********************************************************************
sunbird
Dean <dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
We Are Not Impressed
sunbird
--
I specifically prohibit ANY unsolicited commercial E-mail
communication to my email address.
sunbird
Brian Rost <br...@synnet.com> wrote:
> After you get done having your balls sucked, perhaps you would care to
> mention who YOU think would be worthy of such an award?
Guitarist of the 90's?
Stevie Ray Vaughn or whazisname from Pearl Jam
Thibeaux
didn't change *my* opinion of Cobain. I still think he was a pathetic
anti-hero and a poor role model for kids. OTOH, I feel the same way about
*anyone* who is gifted, yet *chooses* to squander their life with
drug/alcohol abuse. He's no different than Jimi, Janis, Jim M., or any of
countless others who choose this path. I have more admiration for SRV
because he straightened himself out.
Don't worry, another rock-n-roll messiah will come along soon enough.
steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<78jtor$8c3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Chip of Known Space
>Bad decade, if you agree with their choice. Which I don't. I think some good
I do. It was the biggest musical change to happen in the 90's, and it
was because of his being able to make grunge have a pop aspect that
made it happen. Likewise, post-Nirvana radio now has much, much more
heavy sounding guitar on it. Prior to Cobain, anything with "heavy
guitar" was considered something outside the mainstream. Nirvana's
success also codified the mainstreaming of "alternative/college"
music.
Chip McDonald
]]] Chip McDonald - ch...@mindspring.com
]]] "Try to be reasonable whenever possible"
]]] http://www.mindspring.com/~chipm/chip.htm
]]] I teach guitar - check out http://www.mindspring.com/~chipm/lessons.htm
]]] Musician, voracious reader, overly contemplative thinker, punching bag for fate.
]]] "People think I'm in my own world; that's ok, they know me there" - J. Hodgson
Chip of Known Space
Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
Brian Rost
>
> In article <36ADD0...@synnet.com>
> Brian Rost <br...@synnet.com> wrote:
>
> > After you get done having your balls sucked, perhaps you would care to
> > mention who YOU think would be worthy of such an award?
>
> Guitarist of the 90's?
>
> Stevie Ray Vaughn or whazisname from Pearl Jam
SRV just makes it into the 90s by 8 months...sorta like calling Jimi the
artist of the 70s <grin>
"whazisname" kinda sums up the Peral Jam suggestion, I'd say...
Keep 'em coming, folks!!!!
Dan Stanley
Chip of Known Space wrote in message
<36adfa31...@news.mindspring.com>...
>If I had my druthers I would have picked Jeff Buckley (RIP), however.
>Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
But how many people were inspired to pick up guitars by either of them? I'm
not putting down either, and I'm far more likely to play songs by them over
anything by Nirvana, but Kurt helped inspired an awful lot of kids to pick
up the guitar. And that counts.
...like it or not, Cobain was the big inspiration to make music for many
many kids, this decade.
Dan
Gatt
> >Bad decade, if you agree with their choice. Which I don't. I think some
> good
>
I don't agree with their choice by any stretch, but I think the '90s was a
great decade for rock in that it diversified, even if it sorta recycled
itself. Now, it's possible for kids to like grunge, punk, metal, swing
and all sorts of variant genres. If anything hurt the '90s, it was MTV.
> was because of his being able to make grunge have a pop aspect that
> made it happen. Likewise, post-Nirvana radio now has much, much more
I noticed you said that he gave it a "pop aspect," which differs from the
common fallacy that he's responsible for grunge. Actually, his record
label made him, not he himself although most people I know here in the
northwest that saw him play said he blew the doors off the clubs even
moreso than Eddie Vedder.
I saw him at the radio station one time when they were playing in the
college TV studio downstairs, but I didn't stick around for the show (!)
so I don't know how it went. I saw Mookie Blaylock/PJ in a podunk club so
when they all say that Cobain was that powerful, it's possible to
understand the enormity of that. But I just don't think he was the
guitarist of the decade.
> heavy sounding guitar on it. Prior to Cobain, anything with "heavy
> guitar" was considered something outside the mainstream. Nirvana's
> success also codified the mainstreaming of "alternative/college"
> music.
Have folks notice that Soundgarden just disappeared off the popular map?
When they were on the radio, they were the shit. Now that Cornell has
locked himself on an island, suddenly the mainstream has forgotten all
about them. 'Garden had great guitars as did Alice in Chains, much more
so than Nirvana.
Incidentally, I saw a book the other day about grunge. Pearl Jam's guitar
players talked about the solos on their albums song by song, and it's
interesting to read them say "The Even Flow solo is just an SRV ripoff"
and "I ripped that off from Ace Frehley." But none of us should be
surprised to hear that great guitar playing is derivative of somethign
earlier.
The whole idea of "guitarist of the decade" is a marketing ploy to sell
the magazine to younger audiences. I used to flip through 'em when I was
15 and skip past Al Dimeola and all those people, and if there wasn't at
least one reference to Metallica, Sabbath or something, I didn't buy it.
The nomination of Cobain just proves my point.
Chris Gattman ga...@europa.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"And what will they say when you're gone, that you conquered
That you burned like a rocket from the womb to the world?
That you ran with your colors and your flags unfurled,
That you ignited everything like a gasoline rain..." -Floater
----------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Thiele
don't like Guitar World much, Guitar Player is still OK as far as guitar
mags go. Most of the magazines out there are garbage. Acoustic Guitar
is another Quality mag.
Dean wrote:
> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
--
"It's too bad he lives in the city, because
he's depriving some village of a great idiot."
-Mike Milbury, on Ziggy Pallfy's agent.
Mike M.
until the year 2000 before pronouncing the greatest anything of the
decade. And would Cobain be much more than just one of many talented
musicians if he hadn't blown his brains out? Probably not.
On the other hand, maybe he deserves some kind of recognition for
surviving as long as he did being married to Ms. "Hole".
"But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:18:40 GMT, steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>In article <36ACF6...@sympatico.ca>,
> dean.sch...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>> what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
>> decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
>Bad decade, if you agree with their choice. Which I don't. I think some good
>stuff came out of the 90's and, while it may have some large footnotes
>concerning Cobain and Grunge, time will remember a lot of other music as well.
>Cobain was certainly an influential artist, perhaps perceived a bit more
>influential and larger than life than he really was.
Mike M.
For personal reply delete the "zzz" from my address.
David Kurtz
<stan...@tiac.net> wrote:
I know Sarah McLachlan inspired a lot of *women* to pick up the guitar,
and really the whole Lilith Fair concept is quite unique to the decade. It
would never have happened in the '80s or the '70s, and in the '60s there
wasn't the need. Popular folk(ish) music was dominated by women in the
'90s, and the Lilith Fair showcase was one of the most successful concert
series.
--
David Kurtz -- remove the underscore from my email address to reply
PGP key and more... http://www.lightside.net/~david/
Will Borgeson
1. I'm not sure Kurt Cobain really committed suicide.
2. I haven't really connected well with the Dave Matthews band - maybe
it's not guitar-based enough for me, or something - I'm just hearing not
much of a voice, not really much in the way of lyrics, and no overall
personality I relate to much. Pleasant enough to listen to a couple of
times on the radio, but that's it for me.
3. Sarah McLachlan is an artist who did, in part, inspire my 16-year-old
daughter to play piano and guitar, along with Jewel and, to a lesser
extent, Sheryl Crow. My other daughter, 14, is heavily influenced by
Cobain and his tunes are the first she learned on electric guitar. Now
she's more into Green Day, Offspring and some ska bands. Fickle tastes at
that age!
4. While K. Cobain may well have been very influential, I have trouble
thinking of him as an exceptional guitarist. I don't think there's really
a trademark grunge guitar. Most grunge guitarwork seems derivitive of
other stuff, i.e. Neil Young and others. Instead, grunge to me is more of
a stance, attitude or viewpoint.
Will
Alec Horgan
> Chip of Known Space wrote in message
> <36adfa31...@news.mindspring.com>...
> >If I had my druthers I would have picked Jeff Buckley (RIP), however.
> >Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
>
>
> But how many people were inspired to pick up guitars by either of them? I'm
> not putting down either, and I'm far more likely to play songs by them over
> anything by Nirvana, but Kurt helped inspired an awful lot of kids to pick
> up the guitar. And that counts.
It does indeed. But it's not all that counts. It's like that old quote
(from Brian Eno, methinks) about the Velvet Underground: Not too many
people heard them, but everyone who did started a band.
That said, I think Cobain is the right choice (although I'd make a case
for Steve Earle), at least to the extent that "Artist of the Decade" is a
meaningful designation. I suspect Jeff Buckley will fall into the same
category with VU, Todd Rundgren, and Big Star, artists whose influence is
profound but subtle, and likely not to be fully felt until some time after
their flourishing.
Alec
Dean
>
> In article <36ACF6...@sympatico.ca>
> Dean <dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> > decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
speak for yourself. i am happy that he was named artist of the
decade..he saved rock n roll. even though he couldnt play guitar well,
he wrote some great rock music that had a lot of melody.
SAC Geology
> Most grunge guitarwork seems derivitive of
> other stuff, i.e. Neil Young and others.
That's part of the reason a writer at the LA Times decided that Neil
Young was the "Artist of the Decade".
phil
Will Borgeson
: That's part of the reason a writer at the LA Times decided that Neil
: Young was the "Artist of the Decade".
Heh. Right. Mr. Young may well have been the artist of a decade,
but I'd say it was the Seventies - that Harvest album was pretty special.
Despite the fact that his work can be rather simplistic, it can also be
pretty tasty. Some good lyrics and infectious acoustic guitarwork (some
of his electric guitarwork really leaves me cold). I sure prefer that
Seventies stuff to what he's done recently, i.e. "Rockin' in the Free
World." The connection between NY and grunge seems a little tenuous at
times...not too many falsetto singers in grunge (NY's voice is odd, but to
me it somehow works for most of his material). Granted, some of the tune
structure is similar. "Come As You Are" with its Eminor/A on and on could
almost be a NY tune. Not long ago a Pearl Jam concert in Golden Gate
Park, SF got weird when Eddie Vedder was sick, and Neil took over the
show; Pearl Jam backing NY. Those who were there said it just dragged, or
should I say dirged, on and on. "This Note's For You" was clever and
cute, but it's really tunes such as those off After the Gold Rush,
Harvest, etc. that said a lot to me. Last night someone described a
current tune about Bill Clinton, et al to me - from the description, NY
adopts a strangely Republican stance - wonder if it's a parody or for
real?
Will
chase
>
> But how many people were inspired to pick up guitars by either of them? I'm
> not putting down either, and I'm far more likely to play songs by them over
> anything by Nirvana, but Kurt helped inspired an awful lot of kids to pick
> up the guitar. And that counts.
>
> ...like it or not, Cobain was the big inspiration to make music for many
> many kids, this decade.
>
> Dan
he inspired me to play
chase
chase
>
> Well I cant believe this if its true. I havent bought a guitar world
> magazine for 10 years. It used to be a great magazine full of mature
> musicians and articles. Now it has nothing to do with music or guitar
> playing. Seems to me that 4 letter words are more important for guitar
> world these days. It funny that I as a guitar player get more out of
> "Keyboard" magazine than I do out of most guitar mags thses days. I
> think these magazines are an insult to guitarists in general because
> they drag down the image of Guitar playing as a serious art and
> obviously market their magazine to pubescant audiences. I mean you could
> see it coming when they started those stupid readers poll.
>
you could sum all that up by just saying guitar world sold out. I
wasn't around back then and have never bought a copy because when I read
a part of one in the store, it was all just crap, and like 3 songs
tabbed out in the back.
chase
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] Chip of Known Space wrote in message
[] <36adfa31...@news.mindspring.com>...
[] >If I had my druthers I would have picked Jeff Buckley (RIP), however.
[] >Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
[]
[] But how many people were inspired to pick up guitars by either of them? I'm
[] not putting down either, and I'm far more likely to play songs by them over
[] anything by Nirvana, but Kurt helped inspired an awful lot of kids to pick
[] up the guitar. And that counts.
Was that the criteria for picking Guitarist of the Decade? I would
think it might be a contributing factor at best, but not the major one
[] ...like it or not, Cobain was the big inspiration to make music for many
[] many kids, this decade.
I tend to appreciate guitarists best when they write music that moves
me, even if it doesn't inspire me to pick up the guitar (many of my
favorite guitarists play music that I never attempt).
"What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything, and the
value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
..............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
Xchr...@microsoft.comX -- Seattle, WA.
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Gatt
> He pioneered a musical style, went (multi?)platinum with his albums,
Cobain didn't pioneer it. For the strict, almost indistinguishable
comparison, listen to early Mudhoney before Nirvana, then listen to
Nirvana. You almost can't tell the difference. Not that Cobain wasn't a
good songwriter (guitarist? hmmm), but he certainly wasn't a pioneer.
Bands have been doing that since the early 1980s in the northwest, and
some of the bands that did then still are!
> yet was still a gentle, sweet guy, nonviolent and a good person.
Well, he did threated to kill one reporter who trashed Courtney Love. She
kept the answering machine message. His -image- was nonviolent.
> He was an excellent guitar player, one capable of making a distorted
> guitar sound like someone in pain. My Nirvana CDs are some of the
That's not really difficult.
> most treasured I have, right up there with Tool.
I consider Tool musical re-innovators of the most respectable kind. They
took the monster, ugly, dark rock sound and forged a weapon out of it.
Sober and Prison Sex are two of the most gripping, disturbing non-bullshit
hard rock songs I've ever heard. (The videos are equally masterful, but
PrisonSex didn't last long on MTV because of it.) Those guys took metal
and made it what it should have been long ago.
Now they're starting to bore me, but I hear they got out of their screwed
up record contract so they can now back into the studio and record their
own music.
> I think I can call Kurt Cobaine artist of the decade. I think it's
> fitting for someone who had such a massive effect on music in the
> '90's, and founded (basically) a new style of music.
Again, he didn't even come close to founding anything anymore than MTV did
by presenting it to the masses. Because basically, that's all he did
except for his unique lyrics.
> The only other contender that I think would come close is possibly
> James Hetfield... hmm. .... The more I think about it, the more
Not even close. Hetfield sucks, as does Hammett. I'm an old-line
Metallica fan, but they just lost it. They're not real...they're Spinal
Tap, a bloated construct milking the public for as much as they'll pay;
the musical equivalent of a reader poll.
> it seems Kurt is a shoe-in.
Only in the realm of hard or alternative rock, and only in terms of
influence. (Metallica influences kids too, but, Micheal Jackson and the
Spice Girls influenced more worldwide.) Cobain is grossly underrated in
one mindset and grossly overrated in the other.
It's too easy to martyr Cobain and ignore the efforts of others who did as
much or more. Pearl Jam, for example. They went from playing the world
over to standing before Congress attacking Ticketbastard. They did free
shows, pirate radio shows, they promoted new bands like Buffalo Tom,
McCready started a recording studio that allowed other musicians to carry
on the torch. They helped organize youth activation things such as Rock
the Vote and Rock for Choice, they protested illegal logging and mining,
bought land to preserve it.
They challenged the mainstream, changed their sound just to
piss off the ripoffs, parasites and dweebs, changed it again just to prove
that they could do it again and survive, and they're still a driving force
in the indie and alternative industry.
And they're still here, lurking behind the PAs and in the shadows of small
clubs, checking out new bands and giving them an occasional boost when
needed.
I wouldn't say McCready or anybody is the guitar player of the decade, but
you see what I'm getting at.
Maybe they chose Cobain simply because no other single musician has really
accomplished, influenced or changed much in the last ten years. More
data as to why they made their decision is needed.
-gatt
Mike Murphy
Well I think Kurt Cobain as artist of the Decade is a total farce. Axel
Rose did way more for heavy rock and roll in the nineties and did it with
such style and class.
Nudge,nudge, wink, wink.
For real, though- I don't see who else besides Cobain could possibly be
Artist of the Decade. Music is fast becoming more and more disposable.
Today's Back Street Boys are tomorrow's New Kids on the Block. Case in
point: People in here are comparing him to Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin.
Cobain has been dead only four years! Part of the reason is that most
recognize that he was special and had the gift of artistic integrity and it
killed him to have his music subverted by the industry, relegated to
"product". The other part of the equation is that we are more inclined to
be jaded about an artist's genuineness and hence do not (as in days gone by)
buy more than one or two of a given artist's work for fear that we may not
be deemed cool by others. Thus we do not form the kind of relationships
with an artist's music and the music industry attempts to fill the void with
knock-offs, copies, genre flooding, and very bland MOR ear candy that a lot
of people, including myself, despise.
saul_...@hotmail.com
exu...@exu.ericsson.se wrote:
> In article <36ACF6...@sympatico.ca>
> Dean <dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
> > decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
>
> We Are Not Impressed
Why not? Not many artists single-handedly herald (and crush) a whole
genre of music.
Saul Sabia
saul_...@hotmail.com
saul_...@hotmail.com
ch...@mindspring.com wrote:
> If I had my druthers I would have picked Jeff Buckley (RIP), however.
> Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
Why Sarah McLachlan? I can't see her as worthy of the title artist of the
year. Yes, she's been very influential in folk-style music, and the whole
'woman power' thing, but she didn't connect to the extreme audience that
Kurt Cobaine did. I think Insecticide (sp?) went quad-platinum, if I remember
correctly. Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson. Sarah McLachlan is good, don't get me
wrong, I enjoy her music (though I prefer Meredith Brooks) but I don't
think she has the stature to be Artist of the Year, even, especially not
Artist of the Decade.
More I think about it, Kurt is perfect for Artist of the Decade, IMHO.
saul_...@hotmail.com
"Thibeaux" <tbone...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Great post. I read the March (?) GW cover-to-cover last Sunday and it
> didn't change *my* opinion of Cobain. I still think he was a pathetic
> anti-hero and a poor role model for kids. OTOH, I feel the same way about
> *anyone* who is gifted, yet *chooses* to squander their life with
> drug/alcohol abuse. He's no different than Jimi, Janis, Jim M., or any of
> countless others who choose this path. I have more admiration for SRV
> because he straightened himself out.
>
> Don't worry, another rock-n-roll messiah will come along soon enough.
Kurt was an antihero, yes. Pathetic? Are the poor pathetic? He came from
a very poor background, hell, his first album or whatever was made for
something like 600 bucks.
90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
Interesting how we only see the celebrities doing it. How many people will
read this post, then go to the bar and have a cold one? What's the difference
between that and having a little bit more money and shooting crack? Ethically,
I don't see a difference. It's all drugs, baby. I respect the 10% of the
population who don't do drugs. I don't do drugs. (though I must admit I'm
tempted to try some hallucinogens... but anyways)
Was Kurt a bad role model?
Hmmm. He came from the gutter. He made a name for himself. He made powerful,
provoking music, (which got him the 'Artist of the Decade' award from a guitar
mag) was very nonviolent, and took his life because he finally could not
handle this reality. Oh yeah, and he did lots of drugs.
I come from a lower-middle class family. I try to make powerful, provoking
music. I'd sure as hell like for someone to remember me as a good person.
And many times I have felt like sticking a shotgun barrel in my mouth.
Guess what? I relate to Kurt a lot more than just about any other artist
I've ever heard of. (Luckily I've never gotten hold of a shotgun... just
keys, a knife, and ... well, you get the idea)
Saul Sabia
saul_...@hotmail.com
chase
>
<snip>
>
> Well, he did threated to kill one reporter who trashed Courtney Love. She
> kept the answering machine message. His -image- was nonviolent.
>
to clear this up. It was a woman who went around to Kurt's friends and
people Kurt and Courtney knew, and told them that she had permission
from Kurt and Courtney to do interviews with them- BUT SHE DIDN'T! What
she was doing was rotten. She was trying to dig up as much dirt as
possible and was lying to lots of people. In '93 Kurt and Courtney had
their child taken away because of a Vanity Fair article. They got a
picture of Courtney taking a drag of somebody elses cigarette, and the
reporter said she was doing heroin while pregnant-which was I lie,
courtney quit right when she found out she was pregnant. And their baby
turned out fine. I bet you'd be pretty pissed too :)
chase
chase
>
>
> Kurt was an antihero, yes. Pathetic? Are the poor pathetic? He came from
> a very poor background, hell, his first album or whatever was made for
> something like 600 bucks.
Also nirvana didn't even pay for it. :) Kurt didn't have the money to
pay for it when they were done but he knew a guy named jason everman. -
he also later played guitar for soundgarden i think. Anyway he said
he'd give the 600 bucks and nirvana let him be a 2nd guitarist on the
bleach tour, but things didn't work out with him and he left.
>
<snip>
>
> Was Kurt a bad role model?
> Hmmm. He came from the gutter. He made a name for himself. He made powerful,
> provoking music, (which got him the 'Artist of the Decade' award from a guitar
> mag) was very nonviolent, and took his life because he finally could not
> handle this reality. Oh yeah, and he did lots of drugs.
>
kurt WAS a bad role model, but he didn't want to be a role model
either. He hated being famous. They were on tour in '91 in england
when they became popular in america, and they didn't know they were that
popular until they came back. Dave and Krist didn't like it but it
really affected Kurt. He didn't even really talk to the media until he
had his kid, and then she got taken away, etc. etc.
> I come from a lower-middle class family. I try to make powerful, provoking
> music. I'd sure as hell like for someone to remember me as a good person.
> And many times I have felt like sticking a shotgun barrel in my mouth.
> Guess what? I relate to Kurt a lot more than just about any other artist
> I've ever heard of. (Luckily I've never gotten hold of a shotgun... just
> keys, a knife, and ... well, you get the idea)
>
ditto. I think thats another reason nirvana appealed to so many
people. Is they could identify. They werent rich, they lived in a 1
bedroom apartment in 1990 and ate almost nothing but homemade french
fries and corndogs - even AFTER they signed with geffen records! They
signed with a big record company for better distribution but they were
living in a hellhole apartment up until fall '91.
chase
Chip of Known Space
>> was because of his being able to make grunge have a pop aspect that
>> made it happen. Likewise, post-Nirvana radio now has much, much more
>I noticed you said that he gave it a "pop aspect," which differs from the
>common fallacy that he's responsible for grunge.
No, I'm aware of Sub-Pop's beginnings perdating Nirvana.
BUT -
You know who *really* invented "grunge? Who did the first chugging
I-bIII, riff in a song? I'll tell you, no one has grasped this yet.
The band isn't well known, in fact I don't think they ever got signed
or any exposure, save one lone HBO special back in the mid seventies.
Sure, their singer was a little influenced by Gene Simmons maybe, and,
well, the back up singing was a little fishy, but *still* - the riff
was there. *The* proto-grunge riff....
The name of the group you ask? ( scroll down...)
THE RIVER BOTTOM NIGHTMARE BAND
From the HBO Muppet's special "Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas".<g>
Really, check it out. It's something like E1&G2&E3&A4&, E1&G2A3&4.
Put Chris Cornell screaming over it you have an outtake from _Ultra
Mega Ok_. Uncanny, actually. I've heard bands play that exact riff,
totally unknowing it's Muppet origins....<g>
>label made him, not he himself although most people I know here in the
>northwest that saw him play said he blew the doors off the clubs even
>moreso than Eddie Vedder.
They made themselves by touring hard and putting on live shows. They
played down here in the south east alot (Athens Ga. and Columbia SC)
for a lonnng time before before _Nevermind_ came out, and were pretty
much considered "the" "underground" band. It just so happend radio
was ready for it at the right time; the whole situation was perfectly
primed, post-U-2 and REM.
>college TV studio downstairs, but I didn't stick around for the show (!)
I remember seeing them in Athens Back in the Day; wasn't really my
thing, and having not really heard the EP and so forth live it didn't
translate the same as hearing "all the hits" *then* played live. I
remember perceiving them to be more punky than Soundgarden, which I
didn't like.
>when they all say that Cobain was that powerful, it's possible to
>understand the enormity of that. But I just don't think he was the
>guitarist of the decade.
No, but it was quite obvious he was giving his all live. I didn't
see them the last show they did in Athens before _Nevermind_ came out,
but I heard it was slam packed and everyone that went seemed to be
raving about it; again, the situation was primed.
The thing is, at that time there were *alot* of bands kind of doing
the same thing, but not from Seattle. In the end, looking back,
Cobain's songs were probably the best out of the group of bands I'm
thinking of that were touring that circuit at that time - it just
wasn't as obvious when there were so many bands doing that sort of
thing. Of course now, there's nine million bands doing Nirvana, but
that's another story...
>Have folks notice that Soundgarden just disappeared off the popular map?
Frick, I hate that. I think Cobain was "talented", but Soundgarden
made the whole thing legitimate. I remember thinking, when Nirvana
broke, "man... they're not *grunge* - that should be Soundgarden". I
suppose SG did eventually get on the radio, which is really strange
thinking about it, but the old stuff has been "forgotten" (as in, kids
have come to guitar lessons with the new cd's, thinking they only have
1 or 2 cd's in their catalog...).
>When they were on the radio, they were the shit. Now that Cornell has
>locked himself on an island, suddenly the mainstream has forgotten all
Locked himself on an island? Where'd you hear that? What's that all
about?
The really bizarre thing about SG breaking up is that about 2 days
before they announced it, I was talking to some friends about their
popularity on the radio.
"man, wouldn't it be cool if they suddenly broke up, so Cornell would
have to go around doing solo acoustic gigs?".
BOOM! They break up! Only, I haven't seen Cornell doing any solo
gigs.
So, some time passes.. in the mean time, that year I had gotten turned
onto Jeff Buckley. Big time; until he came around I thought of
Cornell as being the quintessential rock singer, finesse and soul. I
found myself talking to some other friends about how I probably
thought Buckley was better than Cornell, perhaps.
The next day, Buckley dies.
I used to be into all of these hypothetical day dream situations:
"what if Cornell did a duet with Sarah McLachlan? What if Buckley had
done something with k.d. lang? What about Buckley and Freddy Mercury?
'Course, Cornell and Buckley would have been interesting to hear..".
I actually remembered thinking about how Buckley would have sounded on
Sg's "Fell on Black Days"; how Cornell would have sounded on Buckley's
stuff. I remember thinking "their stuff is really pretty
inter-related"...
Then, it gets weirder. On VH-1 about 2 weeks later, they did a little
special on Buckley. Guess who apparently was a friend of his and had
alot to say in this interview? Cornell. It was really surreal, I was
watching this thing and they had different people commenting about his
singing and music, and I'm thinking "huh. It would be interesting to
hear what Cornell thought, if had of even heard his stuff". Boom -
there's Cornell talking about Jeff Buckley. Really, really strange.
Stuff like that seems to be happening more and more to me, makes me
not want to comment on anything anymore.
>Incidentally, I saw a book the other day about grunge. Pearl Jam's guitar
>players talked about the solos on their albums song by song, and it's
>interesting to read them say "The Even Flow solo is just an SRV ripoff"
Even Flow is Soundgarden's "Hands All Over", as far as I'm concerned,
sped up a notch...
>surprised to hear that great guitar playing is derivative of somethign
>earlier.
Everything is derivative of something else. It's how clever one is
with the derivation that counts. No one is totally original; I just
read where George Martin was talking about how the Goon Show
influenced Monty Python; that was one of my last hold outs for
"spontaneous genius". Which actually helps me feel better about trying
not to worry about being %100 original %100 of the time.
>The whole idea of "guitarist of the decade" is a marketing ploy to sell
>the magazine to younger audiences.
They're shooting themselves in the foot. They're popularizing fashion
over actual guitar playing, which is in the process de-emphasizing
their own business.
>15 and skip past Al Dimeola and all those people, and if there wasn't at
>least one reference to Metallica, Sabbath or something, I didn't buy it.
Hmph. I used to read every magazine cover to cover, just to make sure
I didn't miss anything... Now, I buy EQ and a few of the other
recording magazines... I have a sub to _Wired_.. but let my GP
subscription run out long ago. Apparently, the delineation between
"guitar magazine" and "teenybopper magazine" is a difficult thing to
discern... I suppose they're using sales figures, but by splitting
their core readers up they're setting themselves up for a fall. Or
maybe not. It seems, *maybe* they're all pulling back a little bit...
but...
Chip of Known Space
<aw...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>meaningful designation. I suspect Jeff Buckley will fall into the same
>category with VU, Todd Rundgren, and Big Star, artists whose influence is
Buckley should still be here, dammit.
Chip of Known Space
wrote:
>decade. And would Cobain be much more than just one of many talented
>musicians if he hadn't blown his brains out? Probably not.
I disagree. Well before he killed himself (or people let him be
killed?) his popularity was at a massive peak. I teach guitar: before
he died, I would say %90 of the people 18 and younger was into Nirvana
as their "main" band. It's was really (and still is) insane how into
Cobain some people were - *before* he killed himself.
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
saul_...@hotmail.com wrote in message <78mgk9$cre$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
>of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
You looking for me?
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
Chip of Known Space wrote in message
>You know who *really* invented "grunge? Who did the first chugging
>I-bIII, riff in a song?
Brian Auger's Oblivion Express "Brain Damage"?
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
steve...@my-dejanews.com
szbo...@catbert.ucdavis.edu (Will Borgeson) wrote:
> SAC Geology (hug...@mail.rsccd.org) wrote:
>
> : That's part of the reason a writer at the LA Times decided that Neil
> : Young was the "Artist of the Decade".
>
> Heh. Right. Mr. Young may well have been the artist of a decade,
> but I'd say it was the Seventies - that Harvest album was pretty special.
> Despite the fact that his work can be rather simplistic, it can also be
> pretty tasty. Some good lyrics and infectious acoustic guitarwork (some
> of his electric guitarwork really leaves me cold). I sure prefer that
> Seventies stuff to what he's done recently, i.e. "Rockin' in the Free
> World." The connection between NY and grunge seems a little tenuous at
> times...not too many falsetto singers in grunge (NY's voice is odd, but to
> me it somehow works for most of his material). Granted, some of the tune
>
With all respect, there are 2 sides to Neil Young. Acoustic and Electric. His
compositional style sometimes generally allows him to go either direction with
a lot of tunes, or at least the the electric stuff usually sounds good on in a
solo guitar/piano voice arrangement.
I thought it was the over the top electric side that Neil has been doing since
he started (mainly about energy, distortion and feeling-not very much about
technique) that led him to be called the Godfather or Grandfather of grunge.
He is not everyone's cup of tea (just as grunge isn't). I personnally really
enjoy some of his earlier work. I had a 'thing' about his ragged electric
guitar playing for years. Didn't care for it much. Although I was in bands
that did all the early electric songs (Down by The River, Cowgirl, Southern
Man) when they were current-coz they were Easy and the people liked em.
(Kinda like some Nirvana/grunge stuff-energy aside, different times)
On Rolling Stone's 20th (?) anniversary special (I believe in the late
80's-pre Nirvana definitely) Neil was interviewed and as I recall had some
interesting points being made about the real spirit of rock, the energy etc.
"Better to Burn Out than Fade Away" etc. In his case technique as required to
connect with the audience. They edited in clips of him in concert beating
hell out of his guitar and projecting real rock and roll emotion. Completely
sweat drenched.
He's said one of the reasons he doesn't care to work with CSN on a regular
basis is for lack of a better term, they got old and while they can still
have an "on nite' Neil wants to go for broke As A Rule. (I'm sure some have
seem him on off nites-but not usually at a Neil Young concert.)
After seeing that RS special and listening to him, I came away with a
different opinion about him. With the electic guitar on, he's about rock and
roll, and giving it all you got. I still don't care much to listen to him
play electric on recordings, but I'll definitely watch a live concert. He's
the real thing. I guess the Seattle guys picked up on this aspect of his
work....
IMOHO-no flames please, I've already said he's not for all. Comments/critiques
welcome.
Steve
steve...@my-dejanews.com
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Chip of Known Space wrote in message
> <36aec93e...@news.mindspring.com>...
>
> >I-bIII, riff in a song?
>
Blue Cheer?:)
Dan Stanley
Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote in message <36b84b81.1285291130@newsvr>...>[] <36adfa31...@news.mindspring.com>...
>[] >If I had my druthers I would have picked Jeff Buckley (RIP), however.
>[] >Or maybe Sarah McLachlan.
>[]
>[]
>[] But how many people were inspired to pick up guitars by either of them?
I'm
>[] not putting down either, and I'm far more likely to play songs by them
over
>[] anything by Nirvana, but Kurt helped inspired an awful lot of kids to
pick
>[] up the guitar. And that counts.
>
>Was that the criteria for picking Guitarist of the Decade? I would
>think it might be a contributing factor at best, but not the major one
I have no idea what thier criteria was, naturally, but GW knows their
demographic!
They'll sell more copies with Kurt on the cover than they will if they put
Sarah McLachlan on the cover, for sure.
>[] ...like it or not, Cobain was the big inspiration to make music for
many
>[] many kids, this decade.
>
>I tend to appreciate guitarists best when they write music that moves
>me, even if it doesn't inspire me to pick up the guitar (many of my
>favorite guitarists play music that I never attempt).
But you are a reasonable enough person to know that what moves you doesn't
move everybody, and that what might move somebody else might not move you.
Who inspired you, and at what age?
For me, it all started with George Harrison, and I was about 12...
Dan
Will Borgeson
: 90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
Now that's quite a statement. There's a difference between using
and abusing.
: Interesting how we only see the celebrities doing it. How many people will
: read this post, then go to the bar and have a cold one? What's the difference
: between that and having a little bit more money and shooting crack? Ethically,
: I don't see a difference. It's all drugs, baby. I respect the 10% of the
: population who don't do drugs. I don't do drugs. (though I must admit I'm
: tempted to try some hallucinogens... but anyways)
First - it's the rare person who doesn't do some drug or other,
whether it's caffeine, nicotine, the occasional beer or glass of wine,
prescription drugs of one kind or another. People are trying to medicate
themselves for various reasons, more or less carefully and effectively.
I go in phases of drying out from everything - very refreshing. But hey,
a cup of tea in the morning and a beer or glass of wine, maybe two, in the
evening floats my particular boat. I don't call that abuse.
Second - there is a huge difference between "having a cold one"
and "shooting crack." By the way, last time I checked, crack cocaine
isn't shot but smoked. It's hard to even consider all these substances in
the same paragraph or head-space, as the range of their effects on mind
and body varies so radically. I think it's smart for kids to postpone
experimentation with certain substances until they're a little older and
their personalities have "gelled," taken form. Some substances, such as
the various derivatives of cocaine and opiates, are simply too hot to
handle for just about anyone at any age, including doctors - many have
become strung out against their wills. Many people however can handle and
enjoy the occasional espresso, beer, glass of wine or toke. The trick is
to be in control of whatever substances, if any, you're using, rather than
vice versa. Teaching kids how to use alcohol respectfully, i.e. in
moderation and with food, makes more sense to me than just saying no.
: Was Kurt a bad role model?
: Hmmm. He came from the gutter. He made a name for himself. He made powerful,
: provoking music, (which got him the 'Artist of the Decade' award from a guitar
: mag) was very nonviolent, and took his life because he finally could not
: handle this reality. Oh yeah, and he did lots of drugs.
My daughter, 14, became interested in Nirvana and Cobain after the
latter's death. She is very down on drugs, but is moved by the lyrics and
music. Perhaps Cobain has illustrated for her and millions of others,
what not to do re: drugs. I think Kurt Cobain was chemically or
clinicially depressed, perhaps never professionally diagnosed as such.
Maybe he was using smack or whatever in an attempt to medicate this
condition. It's too bad he didn't seek professional help. Through
careful medication and talk therapy, he might still be with us. In a
different mental form, of course. The energy that went into the lyrics
and music was probably part of the clinical depression, and would probably
have been altered by the medication. Antidepressants tend to mute the
highs and lows. But he might have come out the other side of the therapy
a much better person, with the "muse" or inspiration back in place, but
some of the demons exorcised or under control. At least, I've seen it
work that way for some people who were really messed up.
Cobain was an innovator and trend-setter. If that kind of person
is who the magazine wants to anoint with their little award or whatever,
that's cool, but it's obvious that there are plenty of guitarists out
there with more skill.
: I come from a lower-middle class family. I try to make powerful, provoking
: music. I'd sure as hell like for someone to remember me as a good person.
: And many times I have felt like sticking a shotgun barrel in my mouth.
: Guess what? I relate to Kurt a lot more than just about any other artist
: I've ever heard of. (Luckily I've never gotten hold of a shotgun... just
: keys, a knife, and ... well, you get the idea)
With all due respect, and with the exception of those with painful
terminal diseases, I think suicide is the major copout. People who commit
suicide are quitters. It's hard to think of anyone who commits suicide as
a good person, since they usually leave behind a great deal of emotional
and other wreckage. It is a highly selfish act. If you feel like shit
emotionally day after day, get help, and stick with that powerful,
provoking music.
Will
TBONESPOP
roll attitude, brilliant songwriting, killer sound, and great dynamics.
Unfortunately, I think America is still caught up in angst-music as if you
gotta be pissed off to be taken seriously. Oh well, when I was 13 I also found
the most aggressive and annoying music to aggravate my parents (Korn, Manson,
or rap anyone?). I like Nirvana but no question in my mind that Noel wrote
(and still writes, BTW) better songs.
tbonespop
Brian Rost
(well, one suggestion for SRV who died halfway through 1990 so he barely
counts), c'mon who should have been chosen?
--
Brian Rost
3Com Corp.
978-264-1550
br...@synnet.com
*********************************************************************
Playing the bass is like dancing the limbo: how low can you go?
*********************************************************************
Gatt
>
> From the HBO Muppet's special "Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas".<g>
>
> Really, check it out. It's something like E1&G2&E3&A4&, E1&G2A3&4.
Whoa, dude. That's obscure! Any Muppet jam is cool to me!
> >When they were on the radio, they were the shit. Now that Cornell has
> >locked himself on an island, suddenly the mainstream has forgotten all
...
> Locked himself on an island? Where'd you hear that? What's that all
> about?
Cornell's house in on an island in Puget Sound somewhere, across Elliot
Bay from Seattle. His wife, as you probably know, manages (or managed)
'garden, Alice in Chains and Nirvana for awhile. He came out and did an
interview about talking about reclusiveness, and how it starts with not
wanting to go party and ends up on an island where you don't answer the
phone and nobody comes to visit, and then he said he just doesn't go out
much anymore at all. He's a weird dude.
He was supposed to do an interview for Hype! but bailed at the last
minute, and Kim Thayil had to stand in. There's a documentary coming out
about Andrew Wood--his former roommate, the singer from Mother Love Bone
who ODed about 10 years ago--in which Cornell does an interview, but other
than that you just don't hear from him much. I've heard from folks
around here (Portland) that he's doing a solo project, though.
> "man, wouldn't it be cool if they suddenly broke up, so Cornell would
> have to go around doing solo acoustic gigs?".
>
> BOOM! They break up! Only, I haven't seen Cornell doing any solo
> gigs.
Interesting. See above. My roommate was watching MTV in the other room
when they announced Cobain's death, and that was really weird, but when
they announced the Soundgarden breakup on the radio that really knocked
the wind out of me. Man, I'm still bummed about that. Soundgarden truly
rocked. :/
> found myself talking to some other friends about how I probably
> thought Buckley was better than Cornell, perhaps.
>
> The next day, Buckley dies.
Let's see...so if there's anybody I wanna see split up or disappear, all
I have to do is talk to you about it, right? M'kay. Who comes to
mind?...
> >least one reference to Metallica,
See ya!
Chris Gattman ga...@europa.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"And what will they say when you're gone, that you conquered
That you burned like a rocket from the womb to the world?
That you ran with your colors and your flags unfurled,
That you ignited everything like a gasoline rain..." -Floater
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gatt
> Cobain was an innovator and trend-setter. If that kind of person
> is who the magazine wants to anoint with their little award or whatever,
> that's cool, but it's obvious that there are plenty of guitarists out
> there with more skill.
An interesting thing about Cobain is, I think he would have gone ballistic
at the very idea of being considered artist of the decade. I think "No,
fuck you" would have been his reply. The only thing giving "recognition"
like this--especially to a dead guy--does is name-drop. They can
literally sell more magazines just by mentioning his name, so they do.
He's no longer a musician, he's a commodity.
> With all due respect, and with the exception of those with painful
> terminal diseases, I think suicide is the major copout. People who commit
> suicide are quitters. It's hard to think of anyone who commits suicide as
Forensics evidence showed that he could not possibly have injected the
amount of heroin that he did, cleaned up his drug-using equipment and put
it in the box the way they found it, and then shoot himself. Some
experts have said that the average heroin user would have been unconscious
before they hit the floor.
I gigged with Courtney's previous ex-boyfriend a few months ago at the
club where Love and Cobain met. Backstage we were talking about a friend
of his who held her feet while she tried to jump out third-story window.
He said "Yeah, man. If he'd have let go, Kurt Cobain would still be
alive."
je...@nospamop.net
>
>1. I'm not sure Kurt Cobain really committed suicide.
I'll have to confirm that.
I just saw him the other night, with Elvis, when the aliens picked us
up for a ride.
Elvis was berating Kurt for not dying a rock star's death (choking on
your own vomit).
>2. I haven't really connected well with the Dave Matthews band - maybe
>it's not guitar-based enough for me, or something - I'm just hearing not
>much of a voice,
Voice as in singing voice or as in original voice?
I'm not a Matthews fan, but at least the boy can sing.
>4. While K. Cobain may well have been very influential, I have trouble
>thinking of him as an exceptional guitarist.
It frightens me that *anyone* does.
je...@nospamop.net
>of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
You rang?
My other half gets really pissed when I hide her Nirvana cd, or use it
as a frisbee or drink rest.
je...@nospamop.net
Huh?
You sure have some interesting statistics. Can you cite a reference
for this?
>Interesting how we only see the celebrities doing it. How many people will
>read this post, then go to the bar and have a cold one?
Umm.. not me.
I only go into bars when I get paid to do so.
Ok, I confess.... I'm having a cold one now (water).
Will Borgeson
: Voice as in singing voice or as in original voice?
: I'm not a Matthews fan, but at least the boy can sing.
Neither particularly original, or a particularly good singing
voice, at least to my probably tin ear. Not much range, sort of a mumbly
slurry deal...doesn't do anything for me. Maybe chicks dig it; he seems
to sing about hetero sex a lot. What do I think is a good male rock
singer voice? Good question. A few I like include, no particular order,
Lennon/McCartney (but not Paul solo), Eddie Vedder, Jagger, Townshend, Bob
Seger, Elton John, Marty Balin, Rod Stewart (esp. with Jeff Beck Group),
Paul Butterfield, Robben Ford; in their own weird ways David Lindley, Neil
Young, that guy Fred who sings with B-52's; whoever sings for the
Pietasters...
Will
Will Borgeson
<snip well-said stuff>
That's all pretty right-on. I enjoyed the earlier electric stuff,
although "Down By the River" grated on me as some next-door neighbors used
to literally play that one cut over and over and over again. It's just
the more recent electric stuff like "Rockin In the Free World" I find very
abrasive and not fun to listen to. The patched-clothes poverty pose can
also wear a bit thin. And, sweat doesn't necessarily imply quality. But
Neil Young has written and performed some very tasty and powerful tunes
over the years. Some may find "RIFW" powerful, but it's hard to imagine
anyone finding it tasty. Some people I know knew him back in the Buffalo
Springfield days - characterized him as the most hostile person they knew.
Perhaps he needed that knife-twisting guitar thing (even on a basically
quite "up" tune like "Cinnamon Girl") to exorcise that particular demon.
Or feed it. Psychobabble mode off. ;=>
Will
Andrew Sachs
>
> Cornell's house in on an island in Puget Sound somewhere, across Elliot Bay from Seattle.
I lived in Puget Sound for a while, Whidbey Island. Beautiful country
to have no job and play guitar in.....
Andrew
Andrew Sachs
the shortest?
Andrew
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[...]
[] >[] ...like it or not, Cobain was the big inspiration to make music for
[] many
[] >[] many kids, this decade.
[] >
[] >I tend to appreciate guitarists best when they write music that moves
[] >me, even if it doesn't inspire me to pick up the guitar (many of my
[] >favorite guitarists play music that I never attempt).
[]
[] But you are a reasonable enough person to know that what moves you doesn't
[] move everybody, and that what might move somebody else might not move you.
Sure, but I'm still gonna vote my vote based on how I feel, not
someone else.
[] Who inspired you, and at what age?
Hmmm.... I've always felt that I've never had much central or singular
inspiration. In my early teens (late '60s), I started listening to
radio pretty heavily and soaked a lot of it up. This includes
everything from psychedelic rock to pop. I didn't start buying
records until I was about 16, and then it was a wide variety of
things. I can't say that one person inspired me to pick up the
guitar.
"What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything, and the
value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
..............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
Xchr...@microsoft.comX -- Seattle, WA.
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[...]
[] Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
[] of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
Man, that's a pretty tight criteria -- they both bore the hell outta
me.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[....]
[] 90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
What???
Tell us Saul, how did you come by this little jewel of information.
It's okay, if you just made it up and never read it anywhere, just
tell us -- we'll understand.
[] Interesting how we only see the celebrities doing it. How many people will
[] read this post, then go to the bar and have a cold one? What's the difference
[] between that and having a little bit more money and shooting crack? Ethically,
[] I don't see a difference. It's all drugs, baby. I respect the 10% of the
[] population who don't do drugs. I don't do drugs. (though I must admit I'm
[] tempted to try some hallucinogens... but anyways)
Hey, don't leave out Nicotine, cold medicine, prescription drugs --
you'll see that 10% dwindle quickly.
But abuse? Look, you're not a drug user, so do yourself a favor and
don't pretend to speak for the majority that you don't belong to. Let
me give you a compelling reason why: because you're completely wrong.
Yes, a lot of people have problems with drugs (I couldn't control
cigarettes, so had to stop) -- but more people still can use drugs
without abusing them. I'm sorry you don't respect people will power
and control over the things they ingest.
[] Was Kurt a bad role model?
[] Hmmm. He came from the gutter. He made a name for himself. He made powerful,
[] provoking music, (which got him the 'Artist of the Decade' award from a guitar
[] mag) was very nonviolent, and took his life because he finally could not
[] handle this reality. Oh yeah, and he did lots of drugs.
[]
[] I come from a lower-middle class family. I try to make powerful, provoking
[] music. I'd sure as hell like for someone to remember me as a good person.
[] And many times I have felt like sticking a shotgun barrel in my mouth.
Sorry to hear that (I've been around it, know what it really means).
You're not alone, but try not to assume so much about others
motivations.
[] Guess what? I relate to Kurt a lot more than just about any other artist
[] I've ever heard of.
Now here we go again -- do you *really* mean that? There's no WAY
you can possibly know how "just about any other artist that "you've
ever heard of relates to Cobain. But let me wildly guess as you
have... how about an artist that not only has felt that same suicidal
tendencies as you, but is actually experiencing the same kind of
celebrity stresses (from fame right down to married to another celeb
of sorts) and instant fame/fortune -- have you had this experience?
Curiously, Chris
Gatt
> >90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
>
> You sure have some interesting statistics. Can you cite a reference
> for this?
Ever taken more than the prescribed dosage of aspirin? Ever had more then
three cups of coffee or a couple of cans of pop a day? Smoke? Drink
more than a glass or two of wine a day? Do you eat chinese food or junk
food containing MSG? What about saccharine, NutraSweet?
Incidentally, people cannot technically abuse drugs any more than a
suicide "victim" can abuse a shotgun. You cannot abuse an inorganic
object. People can only abuse THEMSELVES or other people with drugs.
> Umm.. not me.
> I only go into bars when I get paid to do so.
>
> Ok, I confess.... I'm having a cold one now (water).
That's great. Unless you're >10% of the population, though, you're part
of the non-abusive minority.
SAC Geology
>
> steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> <snip well-said stuff>
>
> That's all pretty right-on. I enjoyed the earlier electric stuff,
> although "Down By the River" grated on me as some next-door neighbors used
> to literally play that one cut over and over and over again. It's just
> the more recent electric stuff like "Rockin In the Free World" I find very
> abrasive and not fun to listen to.
It's amazing how many bands seem to cover RitFW though. I think its fun
myself but other members of my band would throw things at me if I were
to suggest it.
My favorite electric Neil stuff is the late 70's Rust Never Sleeps/Live
Rust matierial. (My My Hey Hey, Like a Hurricane, etc).
> The patched-clothes poverty pose can
> also wear a bit thin.
Yeah, though I can't see him ever going "Zoo TV". During the 80's he
played with his image quite a bit.
phil
Mike Healy
chase <WALLY1...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>ditto. I think thats another reason nirvana appealed to so many
>people. Is they could identify. They werent rich, they lived in a 1
>bedroom apartment in 1990 and ate almost nothing but homemade french
>fries and corndogs - even AFTER they signed with geffen records! They
Homemade french fries and corndogs - no wonder he had stomach problems.
Mike Healy
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
saul_...@hotmail.com wrote in message <78obvo$vt$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <78mnm3$2...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,>> saul_...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<78mgk9$cre$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>
>> > Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
>> >of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
>>
>
>Who doesn't listen to country, has their head out of their bunghole,
>and has headbanged at least once in their life. And thinks rap is only
>cool because of the bass.
Nah, not me.
Surprise me and tell me you own a Gil Scott-Heron record and a Chet Atkins
record.
And for headbanging you can't beat the Bad Brains. Been there, done that.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
JCM900
Cobain's plus she starred in a funny movie and Kirk did not.
~*Freebird*~
JCM900 wrote in message <36AFE4...@mauimail.com>...
>Her musical contribution to the 1990's were as significant as Kurt
>Cobain's plus she starred in a funny movie and Kirk did not.
>
Sure he did. Ever see the Smells Like Teen Spirit video?
Rob
John Stanley
one has grasped this yet. The band isn't well known, in
fact I don't think they ever got signed or any exposure, save one lone
HBO special back in the mid
seventies. Sure, their singer was a little influenced by Gene
Simmons maybe, and, well, the back up singing was a little fishy, but
*still* - the riff was there. *The*
proto-grunge riff....
The name of the group you ask? ( scroll down...)
THE RIVER BOTTOM NIGHTMARE BAND
From the HBO Muppet's special "Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas".
You sure it was mid 70's? I thought Emmett Otter came out around '82 or so
on HBO. Emmett REWLZ.
*** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ***
saul_...@hotmail.com
"Andrew P. Mullhaupt" <amul...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> saul_...@hotmail.com wrote in message <78mgk9$cre$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> > Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
> >of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
>
> You looking for me?
Who doesn't listen to country, has their head out of their bunghole,
and has headbanged at least once in their life. And thinks rap is only
cool because of the bass.
Dang, okay, it might not sound like a lot of people, but really...
Saul Sabia
saul_...@hotmail.com
saul_...@hotmail.com
szbo...@dilbert.ucdavis.edu (Will Borgeson) wrote:
> saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> : 90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
>
> Now that's quite a statement. There's a difference between using
> and abusing.
I agree. But I see, in my life, more abuse than simple use. Most people,
whether they consciously realize it or not, abuse one form of a drug
or another. Gosh, when was the last time you ordered a triple mocha?
That's abuse, because it's too much caffeine for your body at one time.
Trite example.
> Second - there is a huge difference between "having a cold one"
> and "shooting crack." By the way, last time I checked, crack cocaine
> isn't shot but smoked.
I meant 'crank.' Damnit, it was late at night. I apologize, I know what
I meant, even if it didn't come out that way... =-)
> enjoy the occasional espresso, beer, glass of wine or toke. The trick is
> to be in control of whatever substances, if any, you're using, rather than
> vice versa. Teaching kids how to use alcohol respectfully, i.e. in
> moderation and with food, makes more sense to me than just saying no.
I agree with this also. Moderation in _all_ things is the key to life.
> Cobain was an innovator and trend-setter. If that kind of person
> is who the magazine wants to anoint with their little award or whatever,
> that's cool, but it's obvious that there are plenty of guitarists out
> there with more skill.
Sometimes people with the most skill aren't the people with the most
_influence_. There's a huge difference. Since Kurt got to everyone in
America, he is much more of a shoe-in than some classical player who
could knock his blocks off with his expertise.
> With all due respect, and with the exception of those with painful
> terminal diseases, I think suicide is the major copout. People who commit
> suicide are quitters. It's hard to think of anyone who commits suicide as
> a good person, since they usually leave behind a great deal of emotional
> and other wreckage. It is a highly selfish act. If you feel like shit
> emotionally day after day, get help, and stick with that powerful,
> provoking music.
That's an interesting view to take, and it's one that many normal people
take. Guess what? I'm not normal.
Ever since I can remember I've wanted to die. Sometimes it's
more in the forefront, sometimes not. When I'm feeling fine it's not a
problem, I can feel, I can be happy. When I'm not, especially like right
now, when I'm not happy and haven't been for a couple weeks, that's when
life takes its downward turn for me. Try going to bed 5 out of 7 days
of the week and finding yourself trying to convince yourself that you
want to get up the next day. Turn into an insomniac. (I'm writing this,
by the way, at 1:30 at night, probably won't be able to go to bed for
another 2 or 3 hours)
I am extremely intelligent. I _want_ to live. I want to keep on getting
laid, I want to learn, I want to play guitar and make beautiful music
(approximately in that order, please), but .... yeah.
Let's just say I relate to Kurt Cobaine, profoundly. He made an emotional
connection with America that many artists never do. That's why I consider
Kurt to be the Artist of the Decade.
li'l crazy dog jr.
<dean.sch...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>what do you people think about Kurt Cobain being named artist of the
>decade in the latest issue of guitar world?
Is that so? Of course, Guitar World has always been a bit pathetic
anyway...I'm surprised they didn't name Munky from Korn, he seems to
be on the cover of every goddamn issue of that magazine. Of course
they also worshipped Yngwie "Shut Up And Fix Me Another Drink Bitch
Before I Hit You With My Ultra-Fast Fretting Hand" Malmsteen during
the big-hair decade.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[...]
[] That's great. Unless you're >10% of the population, though, you're part
[] of the non-abusive minority.
Gatt, if you can't cite some references from that, I'm calling bull.
Would you care to enlighten us as to where you came to such an
understanding?
Alec Horgan
> And for headbanging you can't beat the Bad Brains.
But you can, quite easily. I love the Bad Brains, but real headbanging
they aren't.
Alec
Adrian Clark
> read where George Martin was talking about how the Goon Show
> influenced Monty Python; that was one of my last hold outs for
> "spontaneous genius".
That's probably true, although the Pythons could explore a lot of visual
stuff, which (obviously) wasn't available to the Goons. Going back a
step up the evolutionary tree, I'd say the Goon show *was* probably a
case of spontaneous genius. I've read about Spike Milligan's and Peter
Sellers' influences, and it really seems that the majority of what made
up "Goons-style humour" was the totally original product of their minds.
Especially Milligan, who IMO is a comedy genius. And lots of people find
him totally unfunny, which makes me feel even better somehow!
Adrian
--
____________________________________________
http://www.zappa.u-net.com/legends/
Technology and shite in perfect harmony
____________________________________________
saul_...@hotmail.com
> >> > Try to find someone without a Nirvana album who is over the age
> >> >of 14 and doesn't listen to Hanson.
> >>
> >> You looking for me?
> >
> >Who doesn't listen to country, has their head out of their bunghole,
> >and has headbanged at least once in their life. And thinks rap is only
> >cool because of the bass.
>
> Nah, not me.
>
> Surprise me and tell me you own a Gil Scott-Heron record and a Chet Atkins
> record.
I could tell you, but it wouldn't be true. ;-)
Does Miles Davis and BB King count?
saul_...@hotmail.com
JCM900@mauimail..com wrote:
> Her musical contribution to the 1990's were as significant as Kurt
> Cobain's plus she starred in a funny movie and Kirk did not.
I think I smell something. It's either bullshit or sarcasm.
I can't smell so I can't tell the difference.
And how the hell (assuming you're serious) dare you say that Baby
Spice has any musical ability at all? She couldn't play an instrument
to save her life.
She doesn't have much going for her except her silicone.
Patrick F. Coleman
>In article <78ndjb$ara$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>,
> szbo...@dilbert.ucdavis.edu (Will Borgeson) wrote:
>> saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> : 90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
>>
>> Now that's quite a statement. There's a difference between using
>> and abusing.
>I agree. But I see, in my life, more abuse than simple use. Most people,
>whether they consciously realize it or not, abuse one form of a drug
>or another. Gosh, when was the last time you ordered a triple mocha?
>That's abuse, because it's too much caffeine for your body at one time.
>Trite example.
>> Second - there is a huge difference between "having a cold one"
>> and "shooting crack." By the way, last time I checked, crack cocaine
>> isn't shot but smoked.
>I meant 'crank.' Damnit, it was late at night. I apologize, I know what
>I meant, even if it didn't come out that way... =-)
>> enjoy the occasional espresso, beer, glass of wine or toke. The trick is
>> to be in control of whatever substances, if any, you're using, rather than
>> vice versa. Teaching kids how to use alcohol respectfully, i.e. in
>> moderation and with food, makes more sense to me than just saying no.
>I agree with this also. Moderation in _all_ things is the key to life.
so you have moderate orgasms?
Not me, I avoid those all I can.
>> Cobain was an innovator and trend-setter. If that kind of person
>> is who the magazine wants to anoint with their little award or whatever,
>> that's cool, but it's obvious that there are plenty of guitarists out
>> there with more skill.
>Sometimes people with the most skill aren't the people with the most
>_influence_. There's a huge difference. Since Kurt got to everyone in
>America, he is much more of a shoe-in than some classical player who
>could knock his blocks off with his expertise.
>> With all due respect, and with the exception of those with painful
>> terminal diseases, I think suicide is the major copout. People who commit
>> suicide are quitters. It's hard to think of anyone who commits suicide as
>> a good person, since they usually leave behind a great deal of emotional
>> and other wreckage. It is a highly selfish act. If you feel like shit
>> emotionally day after day, get help, and stick with that powerful,
>> provoking music.
This is so disconnected from any degree of human compassion I can
hardly believe it.
You talk about these people as if the depression they experience is
something they can handle and rationalize.
>That's an interesting view to take, and it's one that many normal people
>take. Guess what? I'm not normal.
>Ever since I can remember I've wanted to die. Sometimes it's
>more in the forefront, sometimes not.
I feel the same way about pizza.
> When I'm feeling fine it's not a
>problem, I can feel, I can be happy. When I'm not, especially like right
>now, when I'm not happy and haven't been for a couple weeks, that's when
>life takes its downward turn for me. Try going to bed 5 out of 7 days
>of the week and finding yourself trying to convince yourself that you
>want to get up the next day. Turn into an insomniac. (I'm writing this,
>by the way, at 1:30 at night, probably won't be able to go to bed for
>another 2 or 3 hours)
>I am extremely intelligent. I _want_ to live. I want to keep on getting
>laid, I want to learn, I want to play guitar and make beautiful music
>(approximately in that order, please), but .... yeah.
>Let's just say I relate to Kurt Cobaine, profoundly. He made an emotional
>connection with America that many artists never do. That's why I consider
>Kurt to be the Artist of the Decade.
>Saul Sabia
>saul_...@hotmail.com
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
/-)
ha...@primary.net
szbo...@dilbert.ucdavis.edu (Will Borgeson) wrote:
> That's all pretty right-on. I enjoyed the earlier electric stuff,
> although "Down By the River" grated on me as some next-door neighbors used
> to literally play that one cut over and over and over again.
Sorry about that.
Kamchak Tuchuk
tw...@prairie.lakes.com (Patrick F. Coleman)
wrote:
>saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>I agree with this also. Moderation in _all_ things is the key to life.
>
>so you have moderate orgasms?
>Not me, I avoid those all I can.
Damn Patrick! Gettin' a little personal, aren't
we?..... : )
Patrick F. Coleman
>>saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
he said 'all'.... I always thought that line was a tad flawed.
besides.. this is a heck of a remark coming from someone who lies
around on the beach with his pants to his knees.
Twang!
/-)
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
Alec Horgan wrote in message ...
What year are you thinking? They started out jazz, then reggae. When I saw
them it was just when they started into punk/speed metal, and after opening
with one pretty spleefified dub number they hit like two power bass chords
and the entire club was on beyond mosh pit. We went unexpectedly,
instantaneously, and involuntarily from chilling at a table two rows from
the stage to being literally pinned against the club wall by our table and
we ducked a few chairs that might or might not have been aimed at our heads.
I hadn't seen skinheads that agile or flexible before. After a couple
numbers it was pretty much like how people describe being in a tornado -
sounded like a freight train and all sorts of people and big furniture
whirling around. I was pretty much in fear of my life but I know metal when
I duck it. When the place closed I made the mistake of complimenting one
particularly energetic kid on his dancing (which had been amazing); he
seemed to be trying to decide whether to projectile vomit in my face or try
to beat the crap out of me, so he just glared at me. I was something like 22
or 23 at the time but he clearly regarded me as a geezer.
This was long before they got a record deal. I later got hold of a cassette
but as Frank would say "too reserved....much too reserved".
Only band that I know of that loud, fast and unrestrained that could
maintain the level of musicality of the Bad Brains was Ritual Tension.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Will Borgeson
: >I agree. But I see, in my life, more abuse than simple use. Most people,
: >whether they consciously realize it or not, abuse one form of a drug
: >or another. Gosh, when was the last time you ordered a triple mocha?
: >That's abuse, because it's too much caffeine for your body at one time.
: >Trite example.
Not sure I got the attribution right - sorry if not, Patrick. But
answer is, I've never had a triple mocha. I find that tea is much kinder
to me than coffee. Don't mean to sound all pious, but I try to use, not
abuse, substances. Most of my friends, ditto.
: >I agree with this also. Moderation in _all_ things is the key to life.
Including moderation. ;=>
: >Sometimes people with the most skill aren't the people with the most
: >_influence_. There's a huge difference. Since Kurt got to everyone in
: >America, he is much more of a shoe-in than some classical player who
: >could knock his blocks off with his expertise.
Well, to me Artist Of the Year is quite different from Most
Influential Artist of the Year. The former, I think, should focus on the
artistry, not the influence. And I don't think Kurt Cobain was all that
high on the scale of guitar artistry.
I asserted
: >> With all due respect, and with the exception of those with painful
: >> terminal diseases, I think suicide is the major copout. People who commit
: >> suicide are quitters. It's hard to think of anyone who commits suicide as
: >> a good person, since they usually leave behind a great deal of emotional
: >> and other wreckage. It is a highly selfish act. If you feel like shit
: >> emotionally day after day, get help, and stick with that powerful,
: >> provoking music.
Someone, Patrick I think, responded
: This is so disconnected from any degree of human compassion I can
: hardly believe it.
: You talk about these people as if the depression they experience is
: something they can handle and rationalize.
Well, not necessarily handle and rationalize all by themselves.
That's exactly why I said "get help." Depression can be handled, in fact
cured, if it's taken on rather than succumbed to. Quitters succumb.
Survivors find a way to survive. It's all quite Darwinian. I'm very
sorry my words were taken as disconnected from compassion - they most
definitely weren't. It boils down to - if you want to survive, then it's
you that has to reach out for help, then do the hard work it takes to
recover. It might take a year or two. And you might well be a far better
person, when it's done.
: > When I'm feeling fine it's not a
: >problem, I can feel, I can be happy. When I'm not, especially like right
: >now, when I'm not happy and haven't been for a couple weeks, that's when
: >life takes its downward turn for me. Try going to bed 5 out of 7 days
: >of the week and finding yourself trying to convince yourself that you
: >want to get up the next day. Turn into an insomniac. (I'm writing this,
: >by the way, at 1:30 at night, probably won't be able to go to bed for
: >another 2 or 3 hours)
You need to get help, dude. You have at least a couple of the
symptoms of clinical or chemical depression. Great strides have been made
over the past few years in handling this malady. You need to ask around
and find a shrink who specializes in prescribing medications for clinical
depression. He or she can and will bring you out of this, help you get
good sleep for starters. And he or she will probably tell you that the
drugs alone won't get it, you need to get counseling to work on the root
causes of why you're bummed out. You may be pleasantly surprised that all
this won't necessarily cost an arm and a leg! But YOU have to 1)
acknowledge that you have a (curable) problem and 2) deal with it. Kurt
didn't do those things, and look at the hole it got him into. <smirk>
: >I am extremely intelligent. I _want_ to live. I want to keep on getting
: >laid, I want to learn, I want to play guitar and make beautiful music
: >(approximately in that order, please), but .... yeah.
:
: >Let's just say I relate to Kurt Cobaine, profoundly. He made an emotional
: >connection with America that many artists never do. That's why I consider
: >Kurt to be the Artist of the Decade.
Then learn from his mistakes, rather than repeating them, Saul.
Will
Gene Miller
>
> On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Andrew P. Mullhaupt wrote:
>
> > And for headbanging you can't beat the Bad Brains.
>
> But you can, quite easily. I love the Bad Brains, but real headbanging
> they aren't.
>
OK how 'bout Ostrogoth! Andrew!! Leave the children alone!! They know
not what real music is yet. Hopefully when they mature they'll learn.
Gene M.
Kamchak Tuchuk
>jg...@ftc-i.net (Kamchak Tuchuk) wrote:
>
>>Damn Patrick! Gettin' a little personal, aren't
>>we?..... : )
>
>he said 'all'.... I always thought that line was a tad flawed.
>besides.. this is a heck of a remark coming from someone who lies
>around on the beach with his pants to his knees.
Hey! They don't know me like that here on AG! Keep
it under your hat!...........
Gene Miller
>
> I still haven't heard anyone suggest who's a better choice than Cobain
> (well, one suggestion for SRV who died halfway through 1990 so he barely
> counts), c'mon who should have been chosen?
DIRTBAG DARRYL!!
>
> --
>
> Brian Rost
> 3Com Corp.
> 978-264-1550
> br...@synnet.com
>
> *********************************************************************
>
> Playing the bass is like dancing the limbo: how low can you go?
>
> *********************************************************************
je...@nospamop.net
>>
>> You sure have some interesting statistics. Can you cite a reference
>> for this?
>
>Ever taken more than the prescribed dosage of aspirin? Ever had more then
>three cups of coffee or a couple of cans of pop a day? Smoke? Drink
And that reference is where??
>object. People can only abuse THEMSELVES or other people with drugs.
Bingo.
>> Umm.. not me.
>> I only go into bars when I get paid to do so.
>>
>> Ok, I confess.... I'm having a cold one now (water).
>
>That's great. Unless you're >10% of the population, though, you're part
>of the non-abusive minority.
I'm no doubt part of the non-abusive minority, but I don't think your
numbers are correct.
Giri
>
> jg...@ftc-i.net (Kamchak Tuchuk) wrote:
>
> >tw...@prairie.lakes.com (Patrick F. Coleman)
> >wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Not me, I avoid those all I can.
>
> >we?..... : )
>
> he said 'all'.... I always thought that line was a tad flawed.
Hey, "all" includes stuff like "moderation." So...
..Giri
--
e-mail: giyengar "at" ford "dot" com
Gatt
> Gatt <ga...@europa.com> wrote:
> [...]
> [] That's great. Unless you're >10% of the population, though, you're part
> [] of the non-abusive minority.
>
> Gatt, if you can't cite some references from that, I'm calling bull.
> Would you care to enlighten us as to where you came to such an
You need to re-read the thread. I didn't site the statistic as a
percentage. All I said was that if you smoke, drink alcohol or coffee
excessively, eat more than the recommended dosage of aspirin, Vitamin C,
whatever, or eat MSG or synthetic fats, you're abusing yourself with
drugs. I abuse myself with drugs and I'm sure that most Americans do in
one form or another. My point was, a single person saying "Well, I
don't" doesn't discredit the argument any more than a nun claiming that
she doesn't have sex undermines the argument that most people do.
I'll ask my girlfriend anyway; she has a degree in the shit and probably a
whole library of references.
-gatt
Chris Gattman ga...@europa.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"And what will they say when you're gone, that you conquered
That you burned like a rocket from the womb to the world?
That you ran with your colors and your flags unfurled,
That you ignited everything like a gasoline rain..." -Floater
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rev Timothy N Nurse
|>I still haven't heard anyone suggest who's a better choice than Cobain
|>(well, one suggestion for SRV who died halfway through 1990 so he barely
|>counts), c'mon who should have been chosen?
No one. The 90s should be branded 'the no music decade'. It's been dire.
--
===============================================
http://members.xoom.com/The_Minister/
Gatt
> >> You sure have some interesting statistics. Can you cite a reference
> >> for this?
> >
> >Ever taken more than the prescribed dosage of aspirin? Ever had more then
> >three cups of coffee or a couple of cans of pop a day? Smoke? Drink
>
> And that reference is where??
What references? If I tell you 2+2=4, are you gonna demand references?
Do you really need me to dig up a reference to support the idea that
smoking or alcoholism is bad for you? Or that Coke rots your teeth and
your gut, or that too much aspirin can give you bleeding ulcers? Is this
not obvious? If not, references aren't going to help you.
> >That's great. Unless you're >10% of the population, though, you're part
> >of the non-abusive minority.
>
> I'm no doubt part of the non-abusive minority, but I don't think your
> numbers are correct.
They're not my numbers. Could you please provide references to suggest
that they are?
Will Borgeson
: What references? If I tell you 2+2=4, are you gonna demand references?
: Do you really need me to dig up a reference to support the idea that
: smoking or alcoholism is bad for you? Or that Coke rots your teeth and
: your gut, or that too much aspirin can give you bleeding ulcers? Is this
: not obvious? If not, references aren't going to help you.
Plus, a reference can be found to support just about any opinion.
Diametrically opposed references exist for everything. For example,
there's a scientific paper that says hot chiles cause stomach cancer.
There's another that says hot chiles cure stomach cancer. Take yer pick.
Or, more to the point, read the actual papers carefully, and draw your
own conclusions.
Science usually doesn't prove anything, or try to prove anything.
What it usually does is, attempt to falsify hypotheses. The one that
cannot be falsified may at least be a clue to the truth.
It's important also to realize that, while aspirin can give you
bleeding ulcers, it can also help various heart conditions; likewise, an
occasional Coke won't rot your teeth or your gut. Two sides to every
story, even with peer-reviewed scientific journal references.
Will (minor Coke shareholder)
David Kurtz
> Her musical contribution to the 1990's were as significant as Kurt
> Cobain's plus she starred in a funny movie and Kirk did not.
I recognize that this is merely a joke or a troll, but I feel it's
important to point out that Baby, as far as I know, contributed nothing to
the music other than her voice. Not to say that performance isn't an art
unto itself, but the more lasting impressions are often made by people who
create their own music and poetry rather than reinterpreting someone
else's.
That being said, she probably has a much more pleasant voice than Cobain.
--
David Kurtz * remove the underscore from my email address to reply
PGP key and more: <http://www.lightside.net/~david/>
Mark Zedaker
> In article <36AFE4...@mauimail.com>,
> JCM900@mauimail..com wrote:
> > Her musical contribution to the 1990's were as significant as Kurt
> > Cobain's plus she starred in a funny movie and Kirk did not.
>
> I think I smell something. It's either bullshit or sarcasm.
>
> I can't smell so I can't tell the difference.
>
> And how the hell (assuming you're serious) dare you say that Baby
> Spice has any musical ability at all? She couldn't play an instrument
> to save her life.
>
Actually, Baby Spice is the only one with a voice. Notice how she's
the one who gets the big chorus on '2become1'?
And, the movie *was* kind of funny...
--
Mark Zedaker
ch...@home.com
Johnny Guitar
>
> Well I think Kurt Cobain as artist of the Decade is a total farce. Axel
> Rose did way more for heavy rock and roll in the nineties and did it with......
Curt Cobain is a f*ckin joke!!
How bout Stevie Ray,Eric Johnson,Jeff Healey,Kirk Hammet,Slash......(the
list goes on)..all Curt did was play a few lame power chords...any
beginner guitarist can play Nirvana crap in the first month!
the next time i get a subscription renewal from Guitar World,Im using it
to wipe the shit of my ass.....
Axel Rose was the greatest front man ever!!!..where are you Axel??
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] >
[] > And that reference is where??
[]
[] What references? If I tell you 2+2=4, are you gonna demand references?
[] Do you really need me to dig up a reference to support the idea that
[] smoking or alcoholism is bad for you?
Look up your post again. You were supporting the concept that
> >90% of the people out there do abuse drugs.
Either you believe that or not, or perhaps you were going off in a
different tangent??
Gatt
> Axel Rose was the greatest front man ever!!!..where are you Axel??
That's a joke, right? The guy that trashed the stage and cancelled a
sold out arena gig because he didn't like the sound? When the show had
been cut short already because James Hetfield burned himself up on stage?
It has to be a joke, because any Guns 'n' Roses fan would know that he
originally spelled his named Axl.
-gatt
Chris Gattman ga...@europa.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"And what will they say when you're gone..." -Floater
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew P. Mullhaupt
saul_...@hotmail.com wrote in message <78qop6$2i2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>
>> Surprise me and tell me you own a Gil Scott-Heron record and a Chet
Atkins
>> record.
>
>I could tell you, but it wouldn't be true. ;-)
>
>Does Miles Davis and BB King count?
Not for country or rap credit.
How about at least Vernon Reid's _Mistaken Identity_? Rap made accessible to
metal fans; sort of.
Or maybe Mose Allison.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
steve...@my-dejanews.com
> >
> >>Damn Patrick! Gettin' a little personal, aren't
> >>we?..... : )
> >
> >he said 'all'.... I always thought that line was a tad flawed.
> >around on the beach with his pants to his knees.
>
> Hey! They don't know me like that here on AG! Keep
Er...uh...Yes, Dr. Tuchuk's reputation is sterling here. A visit from him is
always concise and informative, no matter what the topic.
Steve
li'l crazy dog jr.
Timothy N Nurse) wrote:
>In article <36AF42...@synnet.com>, Brian Rost <br...@synnet.com> wrote:
>
>|>I still haven't heard anyone suggest who's a better choice than Cobain
>|>(well, one suggestion for SRV who died halfway through 1990 so he barely
>|>counts), c'mon who should have been chosen?
>
>No one. The 90s should be branded 'the no music decade'. It's been dire.
Oh, bullshit. Go listen to Julian Cope's "Peggy Suicide,"
Spiritualized "Live at the Royal Albert Hall" and Radiohead's "OK
Computer" and tell me that it's all been "dire."
Patrick F. Coleman
>In article <36b0920f....@nntp.InfoAve.net>,
> jg...@ftc-i.net (Kamchak Tuchuk) wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:13:46 GMT,
>> tw...@prairie.lakes.com (Patrick F. Coleman)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >jg...@ftc-i.net (Kamchak Tuchuk) wrote:
>> >
>> >>Damn Patrick! Gettin' a little personal, aren't
>> >>we?..... : )
>> >
>> >he said 'all'.... I always thought that line was a tad flawed.
>> >besides.. this is a heck of a remark coming from someone who lies
>> >around on the beach with his pants to his knees.
>>
>> Hey! They don't know me like that here on AG! Keep
>> it under your(Snip)
I'm not circumcised.
>Er...uh...Yes, Dr. Tuchuk's reputation is sterling here. A visit from him is
>always concise and informative, no matter what the topic.
>Steve
My mistake. Other readers please note that my earlier comment had to
do with an unfortunate situation for which the good Dr. cannot be
faulted.
It was not his beach, not his pants, and possibly, not even his knees.
Twang!
"Oh geez.. I can't find my knees".. bob dylan
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
/-)
Jamie Brown
Kamchak Tuchuk
steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>In article <36b0920f....@nntp.InfoAve.net>,
> jg...@ftc-i.net (Kamchak Tuchuk) wrote:
>>
>> Hey! They don't know me like that here on AG! Keep
>> it under your(Snip)
>
>Er...uh...Yes, Dr. Tuchuk's reputation is sterling here. A visit from him is
>always concise and informative, no matter what the topic.
>Steve
Yeah, right! (wink, wink...)
Kamchak Tuchuk
Dang! You bastage! We don't NEED this much
information!! : )
>
>My mistake. Other readers please note that my earlier comment had to
>do with an unfortunate situation for which the good Dr. cannot be
>faulted.
>It was not his beach, not his pants, and possibly, not even his knees.
>Twang!
I feel so cheap.........now, the Docta's in the
house so, BENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND OVA!!