Spooky Two - What type of guitar?
RS
Grosvenor's sound on Evil Woman is absolutely electric. Sounds likely
to be P90's, but I don't like the sound of his ("ariel bender's") LP
Special sound with Mott the Hoople at all.
Anyone happen to know what type of guitar he was playing on the
earlier Spooky Tooth tracks?
JJTj
>I was just listening to Spooky Two (by Spooky Tooth). Luther
>Grosvenor's sound on Evil Woman is absolutely electric. Sounds likely
>to be P90's, but I don't like the sound of his ("ariel bender's") LP
>Special sound with Mott the Hoople at all.
Ariel Bender (gotta love the name) more often then not used
a maple neck strat, often plugged into Ampeg V4's, although
he was pictured alot with a LP Jr. I saw Mott alot around
that era, and he mainly used the strat. No Mick Ralphs,
but a good showman. Still gigs around IMMSMW.
JJTj
RS
Thanks for the info. I'm not a fan of his sound with Mott the Hoople
though. More interested in what he was playing with Spooky Tooth, if
anyone happens to know. I've seen pics with what appears to be an old
Paul with P90-ish pickups, but they may have been those old
square-poled things. And I'm not sure that was what he used on Evil
Woman in particular.
JJTj
>LG/AB played a black Les Paul with P-90's during Spooky Tooth's 1969
>gig at the Fillmore East. I think that performance was part of the
>tour backing the "Spooky Two" album. Maybe it's the same guitar used
>for the recording sessions? It's been over forty year ago . . .
>
>Good Luck,
>Lulu : )
That link didn't work, but here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxRstWAZBc&feature=PlayList&p=44D8DA2C96127DD8&index=13
Yeah, it's a LP custom with a P90 in the bridge, and the neck a Gibson
Alnico P's. Gibson today still makes this model LP. The reason why they
didn't put the Aln1co in the bridge position was the magnet was too strong,
and (as they thought back then) distorted too much. Might of been cost too.
Many thick hollow body jazz Gibsons at that time used the same PU in a
'dog eared' SGjr style cover. I own a LP JR double cut with one in it,
and a Tele clone with it in the neck position. Flocking things roar!.
Note in the video, LG is using the neck (Alnico) pickup. Switch looks
that way. Clapton and others used these guitars, and Gibson made about
5 samples of 3-PU Customs using 3 Alinco PUs, no tune-a-matic, just the stud.
Today, Gibson will sell ya the pickup..for a price..in either cover choice.
IMMSMW, it takes a deeper cutout then the P90. I know it did on the Tele clone,
but then I placed it under the PU Guard, with just the rect poles sticking up.
I had some one do the LPjr (it was a re-issue) so I don't know about that. I doubt
if a SGjr is deep enough. And ya have to keep it low and away from the strings.
I saw LG in bands after, and he mainly used Strats. Guy can play.
JJTj
coming very soon
RS
<lulupa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>On Dec 19, 11:39�am, RS <R...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm not a fan of his sound with Mott the Hoople
>> though. More interested in what he was playing with Spooky Tooth, if
>> anyone happens to know. I've seen pics with what appears to be an old
>> Paul with P90-ish pickups, but they may have been those old
>> square-poled things. And I'm not sure that was what he used on Evil
>> Woman in particular.
>LG/AB played a black Les Paul with P-90's during Spooky Tooth's 1969
>gig at the Fillmore East. I think that performance was part of the
>tour backing the "Spooky Two" album. Maybe it's the same guitar used
>for the recording sessions? It's been over forty year ago . . .
>
>Good Luck,
>Lulu : )
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs5mk10XIGQ&feature=related
Oh yeah, I bet that's it. Amazing that they guy sells old instruments
but doesn't play. Who doesn't play guitar?
I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxRstWAZBc
That looks like it, doesn't it. I definitely need one, or at least a
couple of those neck pickups. I was at a loss for what to call those,
but I guess everyone just says "Gibson Alnico"?
I'm not a big fan of country, but Luther's fills in that tune are done
well. And his vibrato and weird moves in Evil Woman are way over the
top. I don't get what happened in Mott the Hoople. Didn't sound like
the same player to me.
Thanks for the link, Lulu.
RS
>
>>LG/AB played a black Les Paul with P-90's during Spooky Tooth's 1969
>>gig at the Fillmore East. I think that performance was part of the
>>tour backing the "Spooky Two" album. Maybe it's the same guitar used
>>for the recording sessions? It's been over forty year ago . . .
>>
>>Good Luck,
>>Lulu : )
>
>That link didn't work, but here's another:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxRstWAZBc&feature=PlayList&p=44D8DA2C96127DD8&index=13
Hey, I just found and posted that link. Yeah, it looks like the same
guitar that Lulu referred to.
>Yeah, it's a LP custom with a P90 in the bridge, and the neck a Gibson
>Alnico P's. Gibson today still makes this model LP. The reason why they
>didn't put the Aln1co in the bridge position was the magnet was too strong,
>and (as they thought back then) distorted too much. Might of been cost too.
>...
>Today, Gibson will sell ya the pickup..for a price..in either cover choice.
I definitely need a couple of those. So you'd just call Gibson and
ask for a "Gibson Alnico"? I thought for sure there would be a more
distinct name for it.
JJTj
> I definitely need a couple of those. So you'd just call Gibson and
>ask for a "Gibson Alnico"? I thought for sure there would be a more
>distinct name for it.
It's from the 56 LP Custom, all books I have just call it the Alnico
pickup. They are NOT cheap, last site I saw that had them listed
were around $250. I've heard some people call then 'P-100's, but
Gibson uses that name for a diff pickup last time I looked.
They also mount by two screws, one top and the other opp/bottom. Check
into depth, as those poles (the magnets, btw) extend far past the
bottom ot the (thin) bobbin. Poles are adjusted by screws near each
pole, and they pull hard on the strings, so set them low as you can.
Here's a tip. Once you have the pole height set, wrap elect tape
around the springs. One layer is fine. DO NOT put some type of
gell on them (you'll never get it all out, it becomes a mess).
You don't have to wrap each spring, just once around all of them.
This will stop the springs 'singing' (being so close to the magnet poles)
at times. My Tele clone with that PU in the neck did that like crazy,
the JP Jr doesn't (don't know why). The Tele clone looks great with
just the poles sticking thru the (custom cut) pick guard yet the LP Jr
screams in the bridge position (almost TOO much) like it's on steroids.
One final tip for dealing with Gibson: NEVER EVER tell them you are
buying something to install in another brand guitar!. That seems to
piss them off big time. Say you have some soap bar LP re-issue you
want to install it in (of course, you're at work now so you don't have
the serial number handy..he he he). You, of course, will have to go
thru a Gibson Parts dealer (ask them who they recommend). Then rave
to them about some new product off their website (Robot guitars ROCK!).
If you get some idiot who just tells ya to go to a Gibson dealer, try
again some other day, and you'll get someone who will help ya. Some
folks there are assholes, but there are some who are very helpful.
boardjunkie
> >LG/AB played a black Les Paul with P-90's during Spooky Tooth's 1969
> >gig at the Fillmore East. I think that performance was part of the
> >tour backing the "Spooky Two" album. Maybe it's the same guitar used
> >for the recording sessions? It's been over forty year ago . . .
>
> >Good Luck,
> >Lulu : )
>
> That link didn't work, but here's another:
>
>
> Yeah, it's a LP custom with a P90 in the bridge, and the neck a Gibson
> Alnico P's. Gibson today still makes this model LP. The reason why they
> didn't put the Aln1co in the bridge position was the magnet was too strong,
> and (as they thought back then) distorted too much. Might of been cost too.
>
> Many thick hollow body jazz Gibsons at that time used the same PU in a
> 'dog eared' SGjr style cover. I own a LP JR double cut with one in it,
> and a Tele clone with it in the neck position. Flocking things roar!.
>
> Note in the video, LG is using the neck (Alnico) pickup. Switch looks
> that way. Clapton and others used these guitars, and Gibson made about
> 5 samples of 3-PU Customs using 3 Alinco PUs, no tune-a-matic, just the stud.
>
> Today, Gibson will sell ya the pickup..for a price..in either cover choice.
>
> IMMSMW, it takes a deeper cutout then the P90. I know it did on the Tele clone,
> but then I placed it under the PU Guard, with just the rect poles sticking up.
>
> I had some one do the LPjr (it was a re-issue) so I don't know about that. I doubt
> if a SGjr is deep enough. And ya have to keep it low and away from the strings.
>
> I saw LG in bands after, and he mainly used Strats. Guy can play.
>
> JJTj
>
> coming very soon
>
> www.violentluck.com
Is this the p-up we're talking about?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2101/2336342195_8733b68049_o.jpg
If so, a regular P-90 can be made into something along the same lines.
just remove the screws and bar magnets and drill the holes in the
bobbin to fit alnico rod magnets. Test for correct polarity before
inserting the new magnets. I've done it....it sounds great.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/148941745_a285bbdbee_b.jpg
There it is....
I don't think its really correct to call that type of p-up an
"alnico"....all Gibbo p-ups use alnico magnets save for the 498/500T
and the import junk they put in the Sonex. They must have a proper
term for it.
JJTj
>Walt Fuller. Distinguished by its rectangular pole pieces and stronger
>magnets, the new unit succeeded the proven P-90 pickup used on several
>Gibsons, notably the 1952 Les Paul Standard. The main difference is
>that this pickup uses 6 individual AlNiCo V polepieces instead of a
>single bar magnet. Each Alnico V pickup has one coil with 10,000 turns
>of 42-gauge wire and individual height-adjustment screws for each pole
>piece. This type was used (in the rhythm position only) on the 1954 to
>mid-1957 Les Paul Custom, also known as the "Fretless Wonder" or
>"Black Beauty."
That's what the book: Gibson Electrics, the classic years says.
It was also used (with dog ear covers) on the Super 400CES and L-5CES,
and a slight few ES-175s. Recent Gibson re-issues of those models
use that cover, hench it will fit LPjrs. With a little digging.
>I think that Lindy Fralin makes a repro of the Alnico
>V with round, cylinder shaped pole pieces instead of the rectangular
>poles that were used on the originals. I have no idea how close the
>Fralin's sound to the original Alnico V's.
I heard that too, and LF makes great pickups.
I remember when I did the mod's to the guitars, I talked to a old
time repair guy (now long gone) who mentioned that the poles being
rectangular made a diff. I can see it, the field footprint would
cover more of the length of the string. longer, and narrow. Of
course the stronger magnet could change all that. Soapbars just
have small screws. I remember a guy in LA made a strat with 3
of them (under the pick guard, pole thru..I got the idea from him)
and he loved it, and with the whammy bar, he could make some "weird"
effects because the magnet was so strong. That was the days of maple
bodies, brass hardware, Mighty Mite (HI RANDY) and Schecter.
"..those were the days..."
JJTj
"ooh Gooddy !! Send me
to the Twilight Zone again..."
SEND ME ! !!!!!!!
(Cheryl 'Devil Girl' Borck)
RS
<lulupa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>On Dec 20, 9:36�am, boardjunkie <boardjun...@techie.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think its really correct to call that type of p-up an
>> "alnico"....all Gibbo p-ups use alnico magnets save for the 498/500T
>> and the import junk they put in the Sonex. They must have a proper
>> term for it
>
>The Alnico V pickup was designed in 1952 by engineers Seth Lover and
>Walt Fuller. Distinguished by its rectangular pole pieces and stronger
>magnets, the new unit succeeded the proven P-90 pickup used on several
>Gibsons, notably the 1952 Les Paul Standard. The main difference is
>that this pickup uses 6 individual AlNiCo V polepieces instead of a
>single bar magnet. Each Alnico V pickup has one coil with 10,000 turns
>of 42-gauge wire and individual height-adjustment screws for each pole
>piece. This type was used (in the rhythm position only) on the 1954 to
>mid-1957 Les Paul Custom, also known as the "Fretless Wonder" or
>"Black Beauty." I think that Lindy Fralin makes a repro of the Alnico
>V with round, cylinder shaped pole pieces instead of the rectangular
>poles that were used on the originals. I have no idea how close the
>Fralin's sound to the original Alnico V's.
>
>Good Luck,
>Lulu : )
I played a guitar once that had P90's with what I thought were alnico
rods. They were Duncan pickups, and I think the guitar was a Hamer. I
was told that they originally considered rods, but ended up with
magnets underneath, but with ferrous metalic rods that served in place
of the P90's screws.
Whatever it was, it sounded amazing. Lots of bite, but with a lot of
the personality of a strat. Not sure if the Harmonic Designs Z90's
are close in sound. I have a few of those but never got around to
hooking them up...haven't found a guitar that seemed suited yet.
I've also been meaning to double-check Jazzmasters, since they should
sound similar. I neverl liked stock Jazzmaster guitars, other than the
pickups, and they always seem to be set up badly.
The Gibsons really have my attention now though, if that's a component
of Luther's sound back then. And I bet the rectangular pole-pieces do
contribute to the sound. Probably not easy to find those magnets
though.
RS
<board...@techie.com> wrote:
>Is this the p-up we're talking about?
>http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2101/2336342195_8733b68049_o.jpg
Looks like the one.
>If so, a regular P-90 can be made into something along the same lines.
>just remove the screws and bar magnets and drill the holes in the
>bobbin to fit alnico rod magnets. Test for correct polarity before
>inserting the new magnets. I've done it....it sounds great.
>
>http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/148941745_a285bbdbee_b.jpg
>There it is....
Very nice! What prompted you to do that? Do you have any samples of
the sound?
boardjunkie
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:36:59 -0800 (PST), boardjunkie
>
I had the idea for years to build a humbucker with rod magnets but
never got around to actually doing it. Then by accident I found one
that was made that way (no idea who mfgr'd this thing). It sounded
exactly the way I was thinking it would....clarity was amazing.
Stratty tone when used in single coil mode. Perfect for neck pos, a
little bright for the bridge. So now all my guitars that have a
'bucker in the neck have rod magnet units I built for them.
The P-90 sounds real nice with rod magnets. I don't have anything
recorded with it as of right now. I like bright p-ups in the neck pos.
The use of rod magnets seems to be a more direct approach....less
components....more pure sound with less loss.
Here's onna my homebrew rod magnet 'buckers:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62937081@N00/3044252820/sizes/l/
RS
<lulupa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>On Dec 19, 11:11�pm, RS <R...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the link, Lulu
>
>
>RS . . .
>
>. . . give this link a look. It's Seymour Duncan's version of the
>Gibson Alnico V "Staple" pickup. The Duncan repro is really not as
>pricey as it might seem. The originals always end up going for big
>bucks when they come up on auction sites like eBay. I've never tried
>this repro version out. Duncan also has a pickup that is part of
>their "hot stack" lineup that looks interesting. It's a humbucker
>sized version of their "Staple" knockoff. There's a link for that
>item as well.
>
>Lulu : )
>
>Duncan "Staple" - - - -
>http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/specialized-1/staple_pickup_r/
>
>YouTube video at about 2:20 - - - -
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2L6ka8BJSM
Well, how cool are those! I've been at the Duncan site quite a bit,
but never noticed that area (Custom-Shop). There are some really
nice-looking pickups there! I'd love to try some of those. Thanks
again, Lulu.
RS
<board...@techie.com> wrote:
>On Dec 21, 1:33�am, RS <R...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:36:59 -0800 (PST), boardjunkie
>>
>> <boardjun...@techie.com> wrote:
>> >Is this the p-up we're talking about?
>> >http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2101/2336342195_8733b68049_o.jpg
>>
>> Looks like the one.
>>
>> >If so, a regular P-90 can be made into something along the same lines.
>> >just remove the screws and bar magnets and drill the holes in the
>> >bobbin to fit alnico rod magnets. Test for correct polarity before
>> >inserting the new magnets. I've done it....it sounds great.
>>
>> >http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/148941745_a285bbdbee_b.jpg
>> >There it is....
>>
>> Very nice! What prompted you to do that? �Do you have any samples of
>> the sound?
>
>I had the idea for years to build a humbucker with rod magnets but
>never got around to actually doing it. Then by accident I found one
>that was made that way (no idea who mfgr'd this thing). It sounded
>exactly the way I was thinking it would....clarity was amazing.
>Stratty tone when used in single coil mode. Perfect for neck pos, a
>little bright for the bridge.
Was it a Stag-Mag?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/sh3_stag_mag/
> So now all my guitars that have a
>'bucker in the neck have rod magnet units I built for them.
>The P-90 sounds real nice with rod magnets. I don't have anything
>recorded with it as of right now. I like bright p-ups in the neck pos.
>The use of rod magnets seems to be a more direct approach....less
>components....more pure sound with less loss.
>
>Here's onna my homebrew rod magnet 'buckers:
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/62937081@N00/3044252820/sizes/l/
Nice. I've done that. Never swapped 'em in a P90 though. That's what
caught my attention.
Mixed feelings about the outcome with the bucker (it was before the
StagMag was available). I couldn't get good single-coil sound due to
magnetic coupling between the sides.
JJTj
>>Duncan "Staple" - - - -
>>http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/specialized-1/staple_pickup_r/
>Well, how cool are those! I've been at the Duncan site quite a bit,
>but never noticed that area (Custom-Shop). There are some really
>nice-looking pickups there! I'd love to try some of those. Thanks
>again, Lulu.
Ditto, thanx for the link, Lulu.
I wonder if that is where Gibson is getting them..?????
JJTj
RS
<lulupa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>On Dec 19, 11:39�am, RS <R...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm not a fan of his sound with Mott the Hoople
>> though. More interested in what he was playing with Spooky Tooth, if
>> anyone happens to know. I've seen pics with what appears to be an old
>> Paul with P90-ish pickups, but they may have been those old
>> square-poled things. And I'm not sure that was what he used on Evil
>> Woman in particular.
>
>
>LG/AB played a black Les Paul with P-90's during Spooky Tooth's 1969
>gig at the Fillmore East. I think that performance was part of the
>tour backing the "Spooky Two" album. Maybe it's the same guitar used
>for the recording sessions? It's been over forty year ago . . .
>
>Good Luck,
>Lulu : )
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs5mk10XIGQ&feature=related
BTW Lulu, How did you know about that show--Is there footage
somewhere? I'd love to hear Luther live from that time.
The solo on Evil Woman is brilliant. I'm not sure if he really knew
what he was doing, but he ended up doing some impressive stuff. Even
the open-string 'flubs' sound like they're placed for effect. On
replay, they do seem intentional. And the repeated weird line near the
end when Wright moves the chord sequence...unlike anything that I know
from that era.
Odd that that is the only real guitar solo on that album. I'd love to
find out if he could do that consistently. Definitely not with the
Hoople, but that was probably not the ideal place for more cerebral
guitar moves.