Opinion on prospective guitar purchase

[TONEWOODs]

Has anyone here had any experience playing, or
listened to someone playing live, this acoustic/electric
guitar- an Ovation 1528D Ultra Deluxe? It was made
from the late '80s to the mid '90s, in South Korea.
From my research, the typical musical instrument
store price was $700, give or take $50 for various
reasons. It is a (super?)shallow back design.
Someone I have known and trusted for a long time
is willing to sale and ship it to me for $185. He tells
me it is in very good playing condition, with just a
few minor dings. Any opinions/advice?
TW

[David L. Martel]

Woody,

I really recommend "try before you buy" or be sure that there is a return
policy with the seller.
Ovations are good sounding acoustic electrics. They are tough and a good
choice for gigging
Their sound is rather unique and they do not sound quite like other
acoustics. They are very popular with folks who want to use effects and
amplification. They are very unpopular with folkies and blue grassers. I
don't like shallow bowl guitars. Try before you buy!!!
On the down side you need a special ovation case. Be sure the case is
included in the selling price. Ovations are prone to "finish cracks". Sudden
changes in temp crack the finish (not the wood) on the guitar's face.
Ovations take a bit of getting used to. They tend to slide out of your lap
while playing. So wear a strap until you get used to holding them.
If that price does include the case and the dings are minor then it's a
good price.

Dave M.

[jtees4]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:39:35 -0600, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries>
wrote:

They often go for under $200, quick search showed $160's-$190's.




*************
Some of my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

[jtees4]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:39:35 -0600, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries>
wrote:

Well maybe more depending on condition I guess:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ovation-Vintage-1528D-ULTRA-DELUXE-ACOUSTIC-ELECTRIC-/251360748732?pt=Guitar&hash=item3a8644a4bc&nma=true&si=s6%252F8eOU5vibo4hEaC%252BWcDVOqKOM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[bg]

"TONEWOODs" <T...@forest.treasuries> wrote in message
news:l9bdn2$ems$5...@dont-email.me...

Those shallow back O's do not have a good acoustic sound mic'd or live. You
need amplification to make them work. But if that's what you're looking for,
O's are good. I've had a deep body O for about 35 years and it still sounds
as good as new, looks like hell though.

[Flasherly]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 09:39:54 -0700, "bg" <sp...@not.com> wrote:

>Those shallow back O's do not have a good acoustic sound mic'd or live. You
>need amplification to make them work. But if that's what you're looking for,
>O's are good. I've had a deep body O for about 35 years and it still sounds
>as good as new, looks like hell though.

I've began wondering that of Godin, catching real sight of how thin
they are after getting over grail stickers approaching $2K and a
presumptive facebrand appeal. Youtube it, I suppose, but to me that's
like toilet paper brands;- really dunno until it's been in the hands
after a nice, good amping.

I amp two full-body acoustics, both now around sufficient time for
familiarity. Their tonality in acoustic PUs is much more a matter of
subtleties than actual playing and overriding style I can actually
"dig" into - namely the radial neck differences to one marketed apart
from standards as a jazz-ier action guitar. Big difference to keep
five effective picks going at once over not necessarily just one
melody line.

Probably wouldn't be either more than I'd being looking, any more than
dropping down two tubes instead of four for a loss of overhead closer
to clipping characteristics.

[pudentame]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:39:35 -0600, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries>
wrote:

If that includes the case, go ahead. If it turns out not to suit you ,
you can unload it on eBay or Craig's list & get back what you paid for
it.

If it doesn't include the case, it could be pain finding a case to fit
it.

The main thing about Ovation acoustics is you're never going to be
able to play it sitting down without a guitar strap whether you have
6-pack abs or not.

I have one Ovation. I love the neck. It is the best playing acoustic
guitar neck I have ever played, including vintage Martins & Gibsons.

I have played other Ovations with horrible necks. I hated them. That's
why I only have the one Ovation in amongst the vintage Martins &
Gibsons.

PS: The way to get those vintage Martins & Gibsons is to buy them new
when you're young & grow old along with them. It's basically a crap
shoot.

[FredE Smit]

Every Ovation I ever played and heard sounded like crap. Clever idea but a piss of shit as a guitar goes.

[RichL]

"FredE Smit" <loonk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bfe56a6-0f22-4c6c...@googlegroups.com...

> Every Ovation I ever played and heard sounded like crap. Clever idea but a
> piss of shit as a guitar goes.
>

It really depends on the context. As a solo instrument or accompanying a
vocal without other instruments, I agree. But in a full band mix including
other guitars, bass, and drums, Ovations fit in really nice and aren't
obscured by the other stuff.

[gonjah]

On 12/25/2013 9:12 AM, FredE Smit wrote:
> Every Ovation I ever played and heard sounded like crap. Clever idea but a piss of shit as a guitar goes.
>

My son had a Applause with a shallow bowl on loan. I liked it. Sat on my
lap just fine too.

[Les Cargill]

Yep. Basically an "electric washboard".

--
Les Cargill

[d.]

If you play with it straight up and down it will sit fine. If you
lean it back, maybe to peek at the fret, board it will slip.
Some of them seem to have pretty narrow string spacing at the nut
which I don't like. Don't know if they all are like that.

[TONEWOODs]

That's certainly not been my experience. A couple that
I played practically needed a separate knob to dial down
the dynamic range, the sound was so rich! Something
beyond simple EQ. Maybe something that actually
mechanically shifts the inner bracing.
TW

[Nil]

On 25 Dec 2013, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries> wrote in
alt.guitar:

> That's certainly not been my experience. A couple that
> I played practically needed a separate knob to dial down
> the dynamic range, the sound was so rich! Something
> beyond simple EQ. Maybe something that actually
> mechanically shifts the inner bracing.

Nonsense. No guitar has a knob that "dials down the dynamic range", and
no guitar has anything that "mechanically shifts the inner bracing".
What a fantasy.

[TONEWOODs]

It's just an idea, obviously. You could call it a fantasy
if you want. Those tuners that attach to the head and
tune by mechanically turning the machine heads for
the player were also once a fantasy.
TW

[David L. Martel]

Woody,

>> Nonsense. No guitar has a knob that "dials down the dynamic range", and
>> no guitar has anything that "mechanically shifts the inner bracing".
>> What a fantasy.

What guitar was this? Moving the bracing? This does not sound like any
guitar that I'm aware of.
A compressor may help you with dynamic range but controlling the dynamics
of a musical piece is part of your job as a player.

Dave M.

[pudentame]

He didn't say there was a guitar with movable bracing, he offered it
as a possible idea to be investigated.

It might be possible to build a mechanism inside a guitar with an
effect similar to the dampers that mute piano strings.

Hook it to a lever attached to the strap button similar to what the
B-bender Telecasters use & when you push down on the neck it pulls the
dampers off the top to some extent.

It would certainly affect dynamic range.

[Flasherly]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 09:28:55 -0500, pudentame
<no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:

>He didn't say there was a guitar with movable bracing, he offered it
>as a possible idea to be investigated.
>
>

>It would certainly affect dynamic range.

Perhaps for adjusting some of the fascia holes in the design, similar
to buying a plastic stop for the soundhole in acoustics to prevent
feedback.

[jtees4]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 22:52:14 -0600, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries>
wrote:

Interesting idea, I don't know if it's feasable....but if anyone wants
to give it a go I have a personal friend that is a patent attorney
that specializes in guitar ideas (has some interesting things in the
works that I can't talk about yet).

[TONEWOODs]

An idea can't be patented. A working prototype
must be built and demonstrated.
It was just a reply to someone who intimated that
all Ovation guitars sound like crap. Nothing serious.
TW

[pudentame]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 10:00:27 -0500, Flasherly <Flas...@live.com>
wrote:

You might attach that to something like a tremolo arm so that moving
the arm up and down increased or decreased the size of the opening in
a manner similar to changing the aperture of a photographic lens.

[David L. Martel]

Flasherly,

What are "fascia holes". That's new to me. Do you mean sound holes?
Ovation has experimented with various sound hole arrangements but the
1528D under discussion has a standard sound hole.

Dave M.

[Flasherly]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 18:11:26 -0500, pudentame
<no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:

>You might attach that to something like a tremolo arm so that moving
>the arm up and down increased or decreased the size of the opening in
>a manner similar to changing the aperture of a photographic lens.

Dunno. But took a chip out of my beautiful golden amber scroll-work
finish, amped cat-gut, sticking an effective chinese sock in it. (Seen
some nicely drilled Ovations in their high ends, just never grabbed
one by the tail that grabbed aholt back.))

[The_Chris]

David L. Martel <mart...@frontier.com> wrote:

Yes. Everybody I know who plays acoustic live ususally goes through a
Compressor, a chorus, slight delay, and EQ... I can't imagine anything
more than that to make any acoustic sound magical :)

[Flasherly]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 05:31:42 +0000 (UTC), "The_Chris"
<TheC...@nospam.gmail.com> wrote:

>Yes. Everybody I know who plays acoustic live ususally goes through a
>Compressor, a chorus, slight delay, and EQ... I can't imagine anything
>more than that to make any acoustic sound magical :)

Or sheer prevalence of volume. If there's a soundhole to the
instrument involved -- and nothing else out of the way to counter what
all hollow bodies encounter, namely feedback -- that's the practical
limit, then, where EQ, perhaps timing circuits and frequency filters
appear as most critical, pushed to the limits of a volume they're
capable, for any inherent quality they have to lend to a dynamic tone
the instrument is first and practically capable. Stylistically
distinguished from what some might sing along to chords in a swirl of
timing- or resampled-Fx processing -- affecting the overall intent of
artistic endeavor as discrepant, interpretative, and ultimately
tasteful.

But - especially a good part - what if the instrument is adequate to
showcase nothing noteworthy to a vocal perspective, really anything
else hardly antithetical to, per se, the guitar and only the musical
composition of an acoustic guitar.

And I've of course done this, laid down classical pieces variously
with timing and reverberation unit effects. What I find is the pieces
become mechanically easier in factoring less fatigue to play with
sustain leveled over and within an added field of compression.
However, and I'd argue from a technical perspective to the player's
ability - almost as if a Newtonian microscope surreally is applied to
classical ambience created within that amped-out volume - is sheer
presence of demonstrable consequence, to a larger and bigger
soundstage of traditional listening perception. Given adequate
instrumental means to playing proficiency, (sic) aesthetic beauty,
it's almost necessary to slow down phrasing as interpretive to flow
for key pivotal points, apart from that volume, when considering that
volume simply isn't there when presented within classical staging.

E.g. - bass settings. Quickest way to throw of a balanced EQ curve
for feedback and all too quickly strident when nothing more than
fleshy pads of fingertips only produce the sounds, trimmed and devoid
of nails, when "slap-back" bass slop off the 6th or 5th string is
exactly what needn't be over-emphasized from delicate passages being
laid elsewhere.

[notbob]

On 2013-12-27, The_Chris <TheC...@nospam.gmail.com> wrote:

> Compressor, a chorus, slight delay, and EQ... I can't imagine anything
> more than that to make any acoustic sound magical :)

I can't imagine anyone making an acoustic sound like anything other
than an acoustic. It's not like they don't have enough inherent tones
of their own. Try different strings, unwound G strings, etc. I
always loved that trebly twangy tone Brits usta get on their Guild
acoustics with whatthehellever strings they were using.

nb

[The_Chris]

pudentame <no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>
> The main thing about Ovation acoustics is you're never going to be
> able to play it sitting down without a guitar strap whether you have
> 6-pack abs or not.
>
> I have one Ovation. I love the neck. It is the best playing acoustic
> guitar neck I have ever played, including vintage Martins & Gibsons.
>
> I have played other Ovations with horrible necks. I hated them. That's
> why I only have the one Ovation in amongst the vintage Martins &
> Gibsons.
>
> PS: The way to get those vintage Martins & Gibsons is to buy them new
> when you're young & grow old along with them. It's basically a crap
> shoot.

I have to disagree with you on all counts!! Did you see the video of me
playing my Ovation? No strap at all...

And, I share one case between that guitar, and my Epiphone acoustic.
The only thing 'missing' on the Ovation are the back edges. It's shaped
like any other acoustic, and as deep as any other acoustic.

I don't have 6-pack abs... not by a longshot!!

[The_Chris]

I have two Kramer Ferringtons... talk about bad acoustic tone :)

[jtees4]

I have six pack abs....unfortunately it's a six pack of gallon jugs!
This whole thread has me wanting an Ovation, lots of good CL deals
lately too.

[FredE Smit]

On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:39:35 AM UTC-6, TONEWOODs wrote:
> Has anyone here had any experience playing, or
>
> listened to someone playing live, this acoustic/electric
>
> guitar- an Ovation 1528D Ultra Deluxe? It was made
>
> from the late '80s to the mid '90s, in South Korea.
>
> From my research, the typical musical instrument
>
> store price was $700, give or take $50 for various
>
> reasons. It is a (super?)shallow back design.
>
> Someone I have known and trusted for a long time
>
> is willing to sale and ship it to me for $185. He tells
>
> me it is in very good playing condition, with just a
>
> few minor dings. Any opinions/advice?
>
> TW

Ovations suck . They sound tinny and plastic.

[TONEWOODs]

OK, you've already said they all "sound like crap". But why do
they "suck"? Bad design? Inferior materials? Poor construction?
It doesn't matter if they're deep body, mid-body, or shallow
body? Could it be inferior pickup electronics? Do they sound
better if they are played in front of a mic instead of using their
onboard pickup setup? Does a deep body model sound halfway
decent if just played acoustically with no amplification involved?
Expound some on your opinion.
TW

[%]

they suck

[Nil]

On 29 Dec 2013, FredE Smit <loonk...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.guitar:

> Ovations suck . They sound tinny and plastic.

No they don't, not all of them. Not the deep bowl ones. Sounds like
your experience with Ovations is very shallow.

[jtees4]

I don't know what plastic sounds like, but I do know tinny. Plenty of
folks think that's exactly how Taylor's sound.
I like Ovations, I like Taylors, I like any good playing and sounding
guitar....but I have this weird thing, I need to actually hear it
before I know what it sounds like.

[The_Chris]

FredE Smit <loonk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ovations suck . They sound tinny and plastic.

Most rock and country players TOTALLY disagree with you :)

Motley Crue, Heart, Frampton, etc., etc., etc., all use Ovations...

[The_Chris]

jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know what plastic sounds like, but I do know tinny. Plenty of
> folks think that's exactly how Taylor's sound.
> I like Ovations, I like Taylors, I like any good playing and sounding
> guitar....but I have this weird thing, I need to actually hear it
> before I know what it sounds like.
>
>
>
>
> *************
> Some of my music:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

The problem is - what if you hear it with crappy strings? I played
acoustics for years using my electric strings because I didn't think it
made a difference. Even using different acoustic strings makes a
difference.

So - I pretty much go by its look, and its feel. I can change the sound
with an EQ pedal :)

[The_Chris]

Nil <redn...@removethiscomcast.net> wrote:

> No they don't, not all of them. Not the deep bowl ones. Sounds like
> your experience with Ovations is very shallow.

Oh, how I wish there was a "Like" button on Usenet :)

[jtees4]

I resemble that remark!! I currently have electric strings on my
acoustic. But I have used both so I do know the difference.

[The_Chris]

jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I resemble that remark!! I currently have electric strings on my
> acoustic. But I have used both so I do know the difference.
>
>
>
>
> *************
> Some of my music:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

I wouldn't have believed it until I tried it with my own ears. Makes
sense.. Electric strings just have to be magnetic... Acoustic strings
don't but actually have to SOUND good..

Wasted 25 years till I learned that :)

[jtees4]

That leads to a new dilemma....what to use on an acoustic/electric.
Need both good acoustic sound AND magnetic. Well depends on the pickup
type I guess.

[TONEWOODs]

I would say with no hesitation, get the best sound, and then
work on amplifying the sound. So definitely use acoustic strings.
TW

[pudentame]

When I started playing there was only one choice for strings - Black
Diamond.

... and we had to walk 5 miles through the snow to school. It was
uphill both ways & we didn't even have feet!

[The_Chris]

pudentame <no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:
>
> When I started playing there was only one choice for strings - Black
> Diamond.
>
> ... and we had to walk 5 miles through the snow to school. It was
> uphill both ways & we didn't even have feet!

I remember that brand being advertised on the back of Guitar Players (I
think), but, I don't think I ever used them....

I have only bought Webstrings.com acoustic strings..

[The_Chris]

jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> That leads to a new dilemma....what to use on an acoustic/electric.
> Need both good acoustic sound AND magnetic. Well depends on the pickup
> type I guess.
>
>
>
>
> *************
> Some of my music:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610

Very rarely have I seen an A/E with an electric-like pickup - Mostly
Piezos and microphone pickups - so - acoustics are still better.

I have an Epiphone with a single-coil Bartolini pickup that I mounted in
the soundhole... I guess there are things like those Dean Markely Woody
pickups too - I think anytime you've got a non-solid guitar (not 335's
or Byrdlands or Gretschs) - you should use acoustics...

[jtees4]

Yes, used black diamond many times! I had to walk 10 miles though,
over a mountain. Not only didn't we have feet, but I was blind and my
friend was deaf. Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie ;-)

[Kaz Kylheku]

I use electric guitar strings on acoustics because:

* more choice in gauges, on the lighter side.
* much better tuning stability exists in certain e. guitar strings.
* wound e. guitar strings keep their initial bright sound longer than brass.

Tuning stability means that I wind them on the peg, bring them to tune and ..
they stay that way, in spite of bending and whammy bar abuse, without requiring
stretching. Strings that hold up this way on an electric will also hold up
amazingly well on an acoustic.

Crappy strings go flat (especially if put under extra tension like during
bending) and have to be stretched to sort of counteract the effect. They still
continue to go out of tune after the stretching.

This issue is not only annoying but contributes to crap sound. Inelastic
strings that stretch and go flat do not stretch evenly over their entire length.
They stretch unevenly like silly putty or chewing gum. That leads to
intonation problems and discordant harmonics.

I know of certain strings which don't do this, and none of them are acoustic
guitar strings. There may be acoustic strings out there which are nicely
elastic like some of the good electric guitar strings, but I'm not about to
waste time and money searching; I will just use what I already know works.

[TONEWOODs]

I don't understand why someone would put electric
guitar strings on an acoustic guitar. The fuller, richer
tonal characteristic of an acoustic instrument would
be compromised by doing so, IMHO. The only faintly
logical reason to go with electric guitar strings would
be increased playability. But if I'm after higher playability
I pick up my electric guitar.
TW

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, January 2, 2014 5:40:46 PM UTC-6, TONEWOODs wrote:

> I don't understand why someone would put electric
>
> guitar strings on an acoustic guitar. The fuller, richer
>
> tonal characteristic of an acoustic instrument would
>
> be compromised by doing so, IMHO. The only faintly
>
> logical reason to go with electric guitar strings would
>
> be increased playability. But if I'm after higher playability
>
> I pick up my electric guitar.
>
> TW

I've done it before, but you lose a lot of low end.
But I don't use a wound G. So when I buy an acoustic set,
I have to dig up a plain G as close in gauge to the wound
G as I can get.
I'll break the winding on a wound G real fast due to bending.
Once the winding breaks... plink.. It's a goner.
I don't mind a heavy gauge for a G as long as it's a plain
string.

[Kaz Kylheku]

Right, because the metal in the electric guitar strings is electric guitar
steel, which comes from special electric guitar grade iron and other metals.

> The only faintly
> logical reason to go with electric guitar strings would
> be increased playability.

That's a function of gauge. I'd still use electric guitar strings, even if they
were 12's.

> But if I'm after higher playability I pick up my electric guitar.

Ah, I get it! And so now the acoustic instrument stands in the corner.
Its fuller, richer tonal characteristics can't be compromised, because
it isn't being played.

[notbob]

On 2014-01-03, Andy <nos...@no.no> wrote:

> Well there's certainly a noticable difference between nickel wound steel
> when compared with bronze (80% copper/20% zinc) or phosphor bronze (92%
> copper/8% zinc) in sets designed for accoustic instruments...

Yep. And playability is not an issue. I've been using .010-.052
phosphor bronze forever. My faves were Guild phos/brnz fer my Yammy
FG. I still have one set, left.

nb

[TONEWOODs]

Those Yamaha FG series acoustics are about the
most guitar that can be had for the money.
I don't see how Yamaha does it.
TW

[jtees4]

On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:40:46 -0600, TONEWOODs <T...@forest.treasuries>
wrote:

I did it because I was the lead guitar player in a three person
acoustic band for awhile. I set up the guitar to play lead, plain and
simple. Lowered the action lower than what would sound good for
"normal" acoustic playing too. And it worked out well.