Reverb in the 1950s
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rock n' roll recordings of the 1950s?
I have heard that there are empty drums that will produce this effect,
and that perhaps Les Paul used something like this?
I am thinking mainly of Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, and Les Paul.
Jax Music Supply
I know that they often used plate reverb in the studio. Apparently
they had two large plates of sheet metal they set up a vibration from
the sound that bounced between the plates and that sound is then
transferred back using a transducer/pickup. The plate reverb is
rather large and only used in the studio .They are still around to my
understanding. Plate reverb doesn't sound truly natural, just really
cool. It gives kind of a drip sound after the echo. The Raveonettes
are a recent group that use this type of reverb in their music.
Spring reverbs were also used and worked similar to a plate reverb
except a spring replaced the plates. They are much smaller, portable
and are part of many good amplifiers.
Both of these reverbs can be simulated quite easily and are often
standard settings on an amp or effects unit.
Here is page we have for the Marshal reflecter which has sound samples
of several types of reverb:
http://www.jaxmusicsupply.com/marshall-reflector-reverb-guitar-pedal-rf-1.aspx
Best,
Jack
Site: http://www.JaxMusicSupply.com
Blog: http://jaxmusicsupply.blogspot.com
Dr. Zontar
As Jack said, plate and spring reverb were around. But there were
other ways to get reverb and echo. A lot of studios also had echo
chambers. They'd put a speaker in one end of a big empty room and a
microphone in the other. Depending on the room, they'd either get
reverb or slapback echo. Sun Studios in Menphis is the best example of
this (early Elvis records, etc.).
Duane Eddy recorded some of his guitar tracks in an empty grain silo
to get reverb.
I believe Les Paul experimented with using a reel-to-reel tape
recorder to get echo. There was a guitar amp called "Echo-Fonic" that
incorporated this effect. I think Chet Atkins used one for a while.
- Rich
christofire
"Jax Music Supply" <ja...@jaxmusicsupply.com> wrote in message
news:75a161a5-2727-4b83...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
An 'echo plate', like the classic EMT 140 (German company) is usually a
single steel plate with one sending magnetic transducer and one or two
receiving transducers. The sender sets up a flexing wave on the plate which
radiates out and is reflected by the edges of the plate. By placing the
sender off-centre, the resulting pattern of waves becomes ever more
complicated as the strength of the flexing wave dies out - rather like
natural reverb. The plate is suspended in a wooden frame/box using springs
or elastic bands. Using two receiving transducers allows stereo return.
There is another plate arranged parallel to this plate and it is covered in
a felt-like material which absorbs some of the sound emitted by the reverb
plate (and so some of the energy in the flexing wave) - a motor/leadscrew
system allows this to be moved closer to or further away from the reverb
plate allowing some control over the resulting reverb time. AKG marketed a
smaller version for outside-broadcast use in the seventies, using a
gold-foil plate (and, presumably, non-magnetic transducers).
Almost any room or part of a building can be pressed into service as a
rudimentary 'echo chamber'. The most impressive artificial reverberation
chambers I ever came across (e.g. those used by the BBC) were tiled rooms
with non-parallel walls, with a sending loudspeaker in one corner and one or
more microphones located elsewhere. Angling the walls, and even the
ceiling, avoids 'modes' which favour specific frequencies, and can increase
the available reverb time. The reverb time could be adjusted by introducing
carpet, rolls of underlay, miscellaneous stored furniture, etc.
We're told that Joe Meek used a spring reverb made from earphone elements
and coils of nichrome wire from electric fire elements, housed in a box that
was heavily wrapped up in insulating tape so no-one could detect his
'secret'!
There is some evidence that Les Paul's earliest echo device was a disc
recorder with an added playback arm/stylus!
Also, there are stories that can be found on the web about US musicians
using large (empty) oil drums for reverb.
Another intriguing development was the 'oil-can' echo, which has nothing to
do with the one above but was a rotating metal can lined with a layer of
oil. An audio signal was 'printed' electrostatically on the inside surface
of the can/oil-layer and was picked up at a point further around the
revolution, giving the same effect as tape echo but without the tape -
search for 'Tel Ray oilcan' if you're interested. I believe this even
appeared in a Morley foot pedal at one time.
A fantastically interesting subject, along with phasing, Leslie speakers,
etc.!
Chris
Lord Valve
> Angling the walls, and even the
> ceiling, avoids 'modes' which favour specific frequencies, and can increase
> the available reverb time.
You mean "nodes."
LV
Lord Valve
> As Jack said, plate and spring reverb were around. But there were
> other ways to get reverb and echo. A lot of studios also had echo
> chambers. They'd put a speaker in one end of a big empty room and a
> microphone in the other. Depending on the room, they'd either get
> reverb or slapback echo. Sun Studios in Menphis is the best example of
> this (early Elvis records, etc.).
Budget outfits just ran a speaker and a mike down the hall to the crapper.
Not kidding. ;-)
LV
Dr. Zontar
> Budget outfits just ran a speaker and a mike down the hall to the crapper.
> Not kidding. ;-)
Did they have a light or sign to prevent people from using it during
recording? I can imagine sessions getting ruined if someone had to go
at the wrong time . . .
You've got me thinking, though. My practice room is across the hall
from my bathroom. Maybe I can talk my wife into letting me mount a
speaker and mic in there. I have a few different digital options, but
it might be nice to record natural room reverb.
- Rich
Sonny
"Dr. Zontar" <drzo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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- Rich
Didn't "The Doors" record a song in a large tiled train station restroom for
a more spacious effect?? Or is that just a rumor?
Sonny
christofire
"Lord Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:48972339...@ix.netcom.com...
No, eigenmodes, like modes in a waveguide cavity, that lead to acoustic
resonance at particular frequencies and are to be avoided at all costs in a
room intended to provide something like natural-sounding reverb. Take a
look at http://www.realtraps.com/pmodecalc.htm for example.
Chris
Dr. Zontar
> Didn't "The Doors" record a song in a large tiled train station restroom for
> a more spacious effect?? Or is that just a rumor?
Could be . . . With Jim Morrison involved, I'd believe anything.
- Rich
christofire
"Dr. Zontar" <drzo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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- Rich
The use of a backstage room for the miked-up Leslie seems fairly common at
concerts, and there are stories to be found about folk looking for somewhere
to stoke-up and have a chat ... while the mikes are faded up! I think I've
read one in respect of a Who concert.
Chris
dash10606
I did a session at Paramount studios in LA in the early '70s where
Frank Zappa had booked enough time that it was nominally 'his' space.
He had it set up for quadraphonic mixdowns. Evidently he liked the
natural ambiance of the all-tile bathroom, because he had multiple mic
inputs installed in one of the stalls. Either that or he did alot of
writing in the can...
That was pretty cool, but the coolest thing about that lavatory was
the shelves full of 2" masters - like Live at The Fillmore East and at
least one reel of material w/ Jean-Luc Ponty.
Dan Ash
White Plains, NY
On Aug 4, 11:43 am, Lord Valve <detri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Dr. Zontar
> I did a session at Paramount studios in LA in the early '70s where
> Frank Zappa had booked enough time that it was nominally 'his' space.
> He had it set up for quadraphonic mixdowns. Evidently he liked the
> natural ambiance of the all-tile bathroom, because he had multiple mic
> inputs installed in one of the stalls.
Speaking of Zappa and ambiance, I have an article about him producing
a Grand Funk Railroad album ("Good Singing, Good Playing"). There's a
photo of the 3 guys from Grand Funk singing into an ashtray - one of
those big metal freestanding ones you used to see outside buildings.
Frank said he liked the sound of it.
> Either that or he did alot of writing in the can...
Well, there *IS* that imfamous poster of him on the toilet, so
maybe. . .
- Rich
Jax Music Supply
Funny you should say that. I remember being in college (20 years ago)
and a friend of mine recording his girlfriend in a narrow apartment
kitchen with the mic at the other end. The results were pretty good
as I recall. Obviously computer technology has gotten to the point
that it easy to do, although it seems to lack something when
simulated, not that I can pin it down.
Best,
Jack
site: http://www.JaxMusicSupply.com
blog: http://jaxmusicsupply.blogspot.com
Jax Music Supply
LOL!
Best, Jack
Lord Valve
In that case, we're talking about two different things.
I was talking about acoustic nodes, hot or dead spots
caused by phase cancellation/reinforcement. The "whisper
gallery" effect vs. dead zones where almost nothing of
the source can be heard.
LV
Lord Valve
GFR had a lot of white noise mixed into their masters, on purpose.
On some tracks, you can hear it start early, before the program
material. Never cared for that...they should have just added
some organ, mixed way the fuck behind everything like most
asshole engineers (kudos to Rudy VanGelder, who knew
better) who produced rock crappola did to fill up any holes
that might have accidentally slipped through when someone
forgot to grind his guitar hard enough, or if the drummer
dropped one of his telephone poles.
Lord Valve
Jazz Organist
RichL
They're not completely independent. In fact in most cases it's just
different language used to describe the same thing.
A closed container can support a number of different modes at a
particular sound wavelength/frequency. Each mode is characterized,
among other things, by where its nodes (or zeros in the sound amplitude)
and maxima are located. For instance, the whispering gallery effect is
associated with a particular mode in a circular or elliptical chamber in
which the mode intensity is largest near the boundary (described here
for light, but the principle's the same for acoustics):
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/~chjpr/Research/WGM.htm
christofire
"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jJ-dnZkTbP45fwXV...@supernews.com...
Nicely put.
Chris
nebulax
I dunno, but I heard that the Three Dog Night song 'Liar' had the lead
vocals tracked in the studio's bathroom, with the mic above the
toilet!
-Neb
Jim
tank in my latest acquisition.
GOOD info in general: http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/rvbtheop.htm
and
http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/history.htm
and for the guys that have seen the guts:
http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/Type4.htm