Boys Are Back In Town - Thin Lizzy
Starman
guitar harmonies on Boys In Town Town? I want to be able to play the
harmonies on one guitar instead of bringing in another guitarist...
Steve2000indeja
guitar harmonies on Boys In Town Town? I want to be able to play the
harmonies on one guitar instead of bringing in another guitarist... >>
I think the harmonies are minor thirds.
Don't know the Zoom unit. It would have to be an intelligent pitch shifter
(obviously). They move around especially in the endout, going up in inversions.
Fwiw, that song is meant for 2 guitars. with grindy Marshall tones. Good luck.
Steve
tempus fugit
(i.e., it has to know what key you're in). If it's not, it will play some
notes in and others out of key.
If the Zoon does have intelligent pitch shifing there may be hope - just
figure out what key you're in (I can't remember - is it in B?) and away you
go. Set it to 3rds and you should be OK.
"Steve2000indeja " <sslag...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040218200344...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Mike McKernan
) wrote:
>I think the harmonies are minor thirds.
>
>Don't know the Zoom unit. It would have to be an intelligent pitch shifter
>(obviously). They move around especially in the endout, going up in inversions.
Those harmonies are minor thirds, major thirds, and fourths. I know
the old Digitech 2112 had smart harmonies with a pentatonic scale
setting. If you have that on the Zoom, it MAY work...you'd have to
play the high part and let the box put the harmonies underneath,
because there are some notes on the lower harmony that have different
harmonies in different parts of the riff.
I used to use a 2112 to do "Something About You" by Boston; actually
sounded pretty good.
Christopher Bell
similar pattern. I don't think the lines are similar enough to do that.
The one glaring example is where at the end of the first phrase, one
guitarist holds one note, and the second guitarist completes the
'suspended 4 - major 3' sequence. So, one line is moving, and the other
isn't.
Those harmonizer effects are only good for doing what Brian May did -
moving chords that followed a precise sequence - It's my two cents that
you won't be able to pull it off..
"Starman" <sta...@universe.com> wrote in news:uMTYb.65787$Wa.60074@news-
server.bigpond.net.au:
D.R
"Christopher Bell" <cab...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94948FC...@129.250.170.96...
Didn't BM just use a massive delay so that he was
playing in three part harmony to himself?
Steve2000indeja
playing in three part harmony to himself? >>
In concert, yes. There weren't intelligent (enough:) harmonizers in Queen's
heyday so I think he used multiple tape delays, probably with a tech to change
the settings for him. Quite an involved concert feat at the time and helped set
him and Queen apart as a live act.
In the studio, I think he just overdubbed the guitar harmonies.
He (or some music writer) referred to the harmonies technique as a 'wire choir'
and the term stuck.
-----
I was never much of a Queen fan but heard their big songs when they were big
and ever since ... and (over the last few years) seen some of the live concerts
they filmed or taped mainly in the 80s.
The result is I'm still not much of a fan of the band, but my respect for them
has increased- but I'm definitely a Brian May fan now. Never gave the guy the
credit he deserved when Queen was big.
Brian May still rocks.
Steve
Keith Smith
The early digitech ips 33? is one I used very easy to program.Even the
early ada pitchtraq?? had 4 presets for jumping harmonies,so lets not
make this too hard for the sake of the new guys.It isn't rocket
science.Pick up an intelligent unit and program it..In the 80's things
like Helion electric eye,by Priest, were easy to nail,the zep stuff,Bad
Company,Thin lizzy..The lizzy harmony parts move,find a live version of
the song,easier to pick out the two parts..Bon Jovi covered it.Yocan
actually cover the da da da da da da part with one guitar...Keep at
it,have fun...
tempus fugit
overdubbed the guitar tracks (obviously), but on Brighton Rock (which I
think must be the one the previous poster is referring to), he used 2 or 3
delays. Check out the studio version of this tune; you can definitely hear
the multiple delays.
"Steve2000indeja " <sslag...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040219162744...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Keith Smith
http://www.brianmaycentral.com/gmmar97.html
D.R
"tempus fugit" <toc...@ciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:MbfZb.39148$vp3....@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> No, he used the multiple delay trick in the studio too. On a lot of tunes he
> overdubbed the guitar tracks (obviously), but on Brighton Rock (which I
> think must be the one the previous poster is referring to), he used 2 or 3
> delays. Check out the studio version of this tune; you can definitely hear
> the multiple delays.
Queen's better stuff was done in the early and mid 70's.
The 80's concerts were pretty blah in comparison.
Steve2000indeja
>"tempus fugit" <toc...@ciaccess.com> wrote in message
>news:MbfZb.39148$vp3....@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>> No, he used the multiple delay trick in the studio too. On a lot of tunes
>he
>> overdubbed the guitar tracks (obviously), but on Brighton Rock (which I
>> think must be the one the previous poster is referring to), he used 2 or 3
>> delays. Check out the studio version of this tune; you can definitely hear
>> the multiple delays.
>
>
>Queen's better stuff was done in the early and mid 70's.
>The 80's concerts were pretty blah in comparison.
No doubt. I wasn't a fan, never made it to any Queen shows or bought any
albums.
There seems to be more concert footage from the 80s- at least that's been show
on TV- so that's what I've seen. They've made me a Brian May fan, as have his
post Queen 'live-on-TV' appearances.
Thanks to the previous poster for correction on the multiple delay in the
studio thing.
Steve
Mike McKernan
<toc...@ciaccess.com> wrote:
>No, he used the multiple delay trick in the studio too. On a lot of tunes he
>overdubbed the guitar tracks (obviously), but on Brighton Rock (which I
>think must be the one the previous poster is referring to), he used 2 or 3
>delays. Check out the studio version of this tune; you can definitely hear
>the multiple delays.
One thing that had a big effect on that sound was the fact that each
delayed signal fed a separate AC30...if they'd all been run into the
same amp with that much gain, it probably would have sounded a lot
more like mush.
Christopher Bell
take the work out of it by emulating that... but, there's little wiggle
room.
Starman
problem and make it easier?
Or better still can somebody recommend me a pedal I can purchase for this
type of stuff?
"Christopher Bell" <cab...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9495613...@129.250.170.84...
Steve2000indeja
problem and make it easier?
Or better still can somebody recommend me a pedal I can purchase for this
type of stuff? >>
I think the earlier poster who mentioned step programming a custom harmony a
few posts back got it right-if you want to do this fairly right. I'd forgotten
about this feature on some intelligent pitch shifters.
Any intelligent pitch shifter will create strict harmonies based on the
intervals and scales you tell it to. Minor third harmony in Cm etc.
As has been pointed out, the Thin Lizzy tune's harmony guitar uses moving
interval harmonies. The harmony guitar moves between minor and major thirds,
fourths (i think) so a picking a (strict) single interval harmony on an I. P.S.
won't sound right.
The 'create custom scale' feature on some IPS's (included on a Roland
multi-effects unit I'd forgotten I had) allows you to 'step program' your own
custom scale one note/interval at a time- so you can program an extended scale
which will dupe the Thin Lizzy harmonies as they change their relative
intervals.
I always thought this would be a bunch of work (also, I never tried to cop an
Allman's harmony tune or the Thin Lizzy song with one guitar) but the other
poster suggested it's not that difficul. Also to maybe use the live version of
the tune (or a live cover version) where it's simply 2 guys playing the 2 parts
(no tricks or overdubs).
Worth a try.
And I could be wrong, but I don't *think* the Boss Harmonist has step
programming. It's intelligent but only gonna do the basics.
You probably need to step up to a better- or at least more programmable- pitch
shifter, perhaps in a multi-effects unit. There are plenty of older
multi-effectors on ebay and other places dirt cheap. The old one I found in my
closet (because of this post) a Roland RP100 modeler/multi-effector from 1997 -
with step programmable intelligent pitch shifting...might fetch $150 on ebay if
I were lucky.
hth,
Steve
Starman
questions:
1: The programmed A6 bank on the Zoom 505II is a harmony effect. Now It
sounds OK but I know it won't do for the Thin Lizzy solo, but wanted to know
if anybody knows what the actual "intervals" are on this bank/effect?
2: So you saying if I stick to something that is similiar to the live
version where the guys are playing basic thirds? I should be able to copped
it OK?
"Steve2000indeja " <sslag...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040220190726...@mb-m01.aol.com...
D.R
> >Queen's better stuff was done in the early and mid 70's.
> >The 80's concerts were pretty blah in comparison.
>
> No doubt. I wasn't a fan, never made it to any Queen shows or bought any
> albums.
>
> There seems to be more concert footage from the 80s- at least that's been show
> on TV- so that's what I've seen. They've made me a Brian May fan, as have his
> post Queen 'live-on-TV' appearances.
If you get a chance to hear any of these albums (in order of preference):
Queen II
A Night at the Opera
Sheer Heart Attack
News of the World
A Day at the Races
... have a good listen. You might be converted... ;-)
D.R.
Frank D. Greco
My old band did this tune way back when. I played both parts
myself. Its not hard; you don't need a harmonizer thingee to
play it. It was also a good learning experience and great ear
training.
Also try learning Bryan Adam's "Run to You" harmony solo;
that one's a little easier since its mostly thirds. I don't
recall his simple-but-tasteful guitar player offhand though...
Being the only guitar player in the band back then, I had to
learn all the parts. But learning and playing all the parts made
it so much easier to play with horn players now... :)
Frank G.
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